Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Heyenezz on January 22, 2012, 07:50 am
-
*********Don't Delete! The Arrest & Paranoia Thread was deleted.*******
1. Have any SR users been arrested?
2. If so, how where they caught?
3. What were they caught for?
4. If I were in their situations, how would I avoid getting caught?
Thanks for any info!
-
1) Yes
2) Doing it in public
3) Usually assault
4) Don't fight
-
I'm definitely interested in this subject.
I have not yet seen one verifiable or trustworthy post regarding a bust of an SR user.
If someone can spread some light on the subject, and give some verifiable DETAILS (i.e. some methods used for investigation / evidence gathering), I think we'd all find it immensely valuable. Otherwise, I suppose no news is good news.
Rocker
-
I wonder if this is the source of misunderstanding. I posted a link to drugs-forum.com in which someone details how the USPS and the MS Narcotic division worked together to bust a user who was ordering drugs over the internet which led to a search of his house too. It is an old post but here is the link:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3231&highlight=arrests
Also, I speculated that with political pressure on the DEA to do something about Silk Road, the only viable option would be to bust a lot of users and put the trust of using SR at risk. You'd never know if you were buying from a LEO. Can they just keep track of who buys illegal drugs over the internet and then bust you at a later point in time when they've collected enough names and addresses or do you still have to have the drugs when they arrive?
rusty
-
Can they just keep track of who buys illegal drugs over the internet and then bust you at a later point in time when they've collected enough names and addresses or do you still have to have the drugs when they arrive?
I doubt it. They'd have to prove you actually got it to begin with, which requires you to sign, which you'd never do. Finding contraband in your home during a raid means just that, contraband was in your home. They could never prove how it got there, unless you sign, which you'd never do.
On an unrelated note, this thread is morphing into another speculation thread. <Insert sad smiley face here.>
-
What's wrong with speculating about how LEO will handle or not handle SR? It's just a discussion between competent adults.
-
The biggest acid dealer at my old college got busted— he bought sheets via SR, but he got busted due to people telling on him, who were arrested and questioned. Not anything about computer security or packaging.
-
What's wrong with speculating about how LEO will handle or not handle SR? It's just a discussion between competent adults.
It's going to scare away new users who are either not aware of or have cognitive dissonance about the risks involved. This leads to less sales, which leads to less commissions, which is against the interests of the admin. Just calling it like I see it.
-
I guess be careful and DONT SIGN FOR SHIT! :-*
-
On a related note, has there been any announcement by the Feds or DEA as to any methods they'd pursue to get members of SR?
-
No, why would the DEA tell us how they arrest us? You won't know until a SR member is arrested, and goes to trial. Then he can leak it to us. By then, they'll have a new method.
-
What's wrong with speculating about how LEO will handle or not handle SR? It's just a discussion between competent adults.
It's going to scare away new users who are either not aware of or have cognitive dissonance about the risks involved. This leads to less sales, which leads to less commissions, which is against the interests of the admin. Just calling it like I see it.
Oh I see. You think that's why they deleted the orginal thread.
-
What's wrong with speculating about how LEO will handle or not handle SR? It's just a discussion between competent adults.
It's going to scare away new users who are either not aware of or have cognitive dissonance about the risks involved. This leads to less sales, which leads to less commissions, which is against the interests of the admin. Just calling it like I see it.
This is how I see it also, particularly since threads discussing people getting arrested for ordering drugs online are being deleted by the admins. Hopefully I am wrong though. One thing that is clear to me is that SR puts profit for SR first and security for their users second. To be fair SR uses better security than many many private forums do, but I certainly see user and network security coming into conflict with the personal interests of SR. I still have faith in this project though, and hope to find that everything has been a misunderstanding.
-
Hopefully I am wrong though. One thing that is clear to me is that SR puts profit for SR first and security for their users second. To be fair SR uses better security than many many private forums do, but I certainly see user and network security coming into conflict with the personal interests of SR. I still have faith in this project though, and hope to find that everything has been a misunderstanding.
I see it the other way that user and network security are not conflicting but intertwined with the financial interests of SR.
But deleting threads does not fill people with confidence, and breads distrust.
fruity.
-
Hopefully I am wrong though. One thing that is clear to me is that SR puts profit for SR first and security for their users second. To be fair SR uses better security than many many private forums do, but I certainly see user and network security coming into conflict with the personal interests of SR. I still have faith in this project though, and hope to find that everything has been a misunderstanding.
I see it the other way that user and network security are not conflicting but intertwined with the financial interests of SR.
But deleting threads does not fill people with confidence, and breads distrust.
fruity.
It isn't very smart from a marketing perspective to give your customers access to information that indicates there is a higher probability of being arrested for giving you money than they otherwise would realize. From a network security perspective it is important though, since intel can be gathered.
-
I searched Google pretty extensively and couldn't find any busts.
-
When the busts happen, they will be aimed at as many people as possible. I think right now LE is letting people get complacent enough to think that this sort of system is secure enough to not really have to worry about. Inevitably, people will fail to use proper security measures because of this. I've seen some pretty sloppy operating procedures on here in my short time, and I guarantee it would not be hard to track down some vendors. I speculate that LE will do a mass bust, because just busting a vendor or two or a handful of buyers will only scare everyone else off the site and prevent them from building cases against them too. They'll want as big a haul as they can manage.
-
When the busts happen, they will be aimed at as many people as possible. I think right now LE is letting people get complacent enough to think that this sort of system is secure enough to not really have to worry about. Inevitably, people will fail to use proper security measures because of this. I've seen some pretty sloppy operating procedures on here in my short time, and I guarantee it would not be hard to track down some vendors.
I completely agree with you. I had posted something along these lines before, but it was sent into the bit bucket. It's my belief that law enforcement is actively on these boards, trying to encourage sloppy opsec in order to encourage users to get complacent despite their participation in a continuing criminal organization.
There are several papers on netwar out there but I like the second major one, "Networks and Netwar" which includes some info about how law enforcement attacks non-hierarchical networks such as SR in this manner:
It is also possible to initiate internal attacks on criminal networks, however, where the objective is to create dysfunctional relations that seriously degrade the capacity of the network to function effectively. One option, for example, might be to destroy trust through misinformation... Not only could this have a corrosive internal effect, but also it could encourage the criminals to move in directions that make them increasingly vulnerable to external attack.
And on instigators, sellers of bunk product that could be address harvesters, and accounts that give bad advice and are eventually exposed:
If parts of the periphery are seriously infiltrated or compromised, they can simply be discarded and new members recruited for the outer reaches of the network.
-
I think that it's weird that there really isn't THAT much publicity about the SR even though it is a decently high traffic place. In all honesty you kind of have to be looking for the information related to the SR to find it. This makes sense to me because if SR were more publicized many, many more people would flock to the site.
...to my point. Maybe LE or whoever is in charge is trying to keep SR as hush hush as possible because they don't really have any effective way of stopping it? Or even if they did, what's to stop something else from just popping up in it's place?
-
I think that it's weird that there really isn't THAT much publicity about the SR even though it is a decently high traffic place. In all honesty you kind of have to be looking for the information related to the SR to find it. This makes sense to me because if SR were more publicized many, many more people would flock to the site.
...to my point. Maybe LE or whoever is in charge is trying to keep SR as hush hush as possible because they don't really have any effective way of stopping it? Or even if they did, what's to stop something else from just popping up in it's place?
Last time I checked SR was already on TV and radio. It is healthy to keep a bit of paranoia.
-
I think that it's weird that there really isn't THAT much publicity about the SR even though it is a decently high traffic place.
Seriously? Silk Road is NOT high traffic. Think about this for a second. How much $$ is trafficked here on SR? 22 million last year was the last estimate I heard. That's chump change compared to the 12 BILLION annual market via traditional distribution. If you are the DEA with limited funding and personnel, would you task a dozen people with college degrees to track down a few vendors on SR, or each of them confiscating half a ton of cocaine at the border?
There is risk here, to be sure. But in my opinion it's not high on the DEA's list. With 5,000 agents trying to stop all drug trafficking in, out of, and withing the united states, how many do you think are engaged in busting SR? Not too many. I'd be amazed if it's more than a few dozen, so long as we don't have any more senators politicking by calling for its demise.
-
Can they just keep track of who buys illegal drugs over the internet and then bust you at a later point in time when they've collected enough names and addresses or do you still have to have the drugs when they arrive?
I doubt it. They'd have to prove you actually got it to begin with, which requires you to sign, which you'd never do. Finding contraband in your home during a raid means just that, contraband was in your home. They could never prove how it got there, unless you sign, which you'd never do.
On an unrelated note, this thread is morphing into another speculation thread. <Insert sad smiley face here.>
This bring me a LITTLE hope. I won't give out details, which I now understand is an assshole move. Let's jut say I am shaking. Not only that, but I am out of some money , not much, but more than I can afford. And yes , its tje risk we take. Does not take away from the SUCK part. It is just too bad some sellers are not as understanding as they ought to be. But I mean, I can see it from their point of view. But, on the note, what are the thoughts on paying when something is seized? Just for those users with this concern.
Thanks.
-
I understand there's been a few busts of SR users, I've heard of one in Australia but it was down to the purchaser being extremely sloppy in real life & dealing out of his own home.
Most busts I believe have been down to people talking, obviously selling & other real life fuckups rather than investigations into SR, though this is just speculation.
-
Fear mongering threads ARE deleted. I noticed this too. Also deleted are any posts that may compete with SR such as other escrow services out there.
Lots of posts get deleted that may inhibit people to shop and buy. They even try to hide the glitches and problems with security. The image hack a few months ago was a good example. They only reported it when they had no choice. And even then, some vendors went offline because there was no way to tell how deep this hack reaches or what . The. The recent bitcoin appearing and disappearing. They wouldn't say anything or shut down the site until it was too late or there was a risk of loosing money for SR. It could have been reported right away. It o Lu takes a few seconds to write a mass message to everyone right ? It didn't go out , just a tiny wee little post by dpr saying don't worry just wait . He was right . He always is . :-)
But it's a business here . You can see how vendors would put pressure on SR to delete these posts that could slow sales. It's good business.
-
Oompaloompa -
May I ask what you think of handwritten labels, and should a vendor stating that something was delivered (unconfirmed) in the same state without issue, do you believe this is reasonable to suspect that its the fault of a buyer?
Just want to know for educational purposes, ofc.
-
Also, I speculated that with political pressure on the DEA to do something about Silk Road, the only viable option would be to bust a lot of users and put the trust of using SR at risk. You'd never know if you were buying from a LEO. Can they just keep track of who buys illegal drugs over the internet and then bust you at a later point in time when they've collected enough names and addresses or do you still have to have the drugs when they arrive?
rusty
I can't imagine LE acting as a vendor and sending drugs out without a controlled delivery each time. They would never let the drugs out of their sight. Maybe they could collect a few addresses before but after a few no shows the gig would be up.
-
Oompaloompa -
May I ask what you think of handwritten labels, and should a vendor stating that something was delivered (unconfirmed) in the same state without issue, do you believe this is reasonable to suspect that its the fault of a buyer?
I suspct most vendors won't use handwritten labels because the label could be presented in court with other examples of their handwritting & expert evidence to prove they wrote the label.
It may not make the package any more suspect though, vendors will try to get their packages to look unremarkable & just like any other bit of post. A business envelope with a handwritten address would look odd but, say, a handwritten birthday card envelope wouldn't.
Not sure what you mean on the other bit.
-
Oompaloompa -
May I ask what you think of handwritten labels, and should a vendor stating that something was delivered (unconfirmed) in the same state without issue, do you believe this is reasonable to suspect that its the fault of a buyer?
I suspct most vendors won't use handwritten labels because the label could be presented in court with other examples of their handwritting & expert evidence to prove they wrote the label.
It may not make the package any more suspect though, vendors will try to get their packages to look unremarkable & just like any other bit of post. A business envelope with a handwritten address would look odd but, say, a handwritten birthday card envelope wouldn't.
Not sure what you mean on the other bit.
See, this is the entire basis of the argument, or most of it. It is claimed that due to the use of triplicate carbon copy papers that must be used for express mailing all labels are handwritten. Does this sound accurate? Im just trying to rule out anything that may be false.
-
Ask the post office, I don't know, though it sounds fishy. Businesses send things express delivery, so does amazon, lawyers etc. Wouldn't expect to see official documents from a lawyer with a hand written address.
-
Thank you for such a fast response.
I have never seen a label handwritten, from ANY business. And I have them sent quite a lot. So that argument is kind of weak. Still doesnt say they wouldnt, but it just does not seem professional , as you stated as well.
P.S. Stay tuned, within the next few days. If I am not posting.... :(
-
Fear mongering threads ARE deleted. I noticed this too. Also deleted are any posts that may compete with SR such as other escrow services out there.
Lots of posts get deleted that may inhibit people to shop and buy. They even try to hide the glitches and problems with security. The image hack a few months ago was a good example. They only reported it when they had no choice. And even then, some vendors went offline because there was no way to tell how deep this hack reaches or what . The. The recent bitcoin appearing and disappearing. They wouldn't say anything or shut down the site until it was too late or there was a risk of loosing money for SR. It could have been reported right away. It o Lu takes a few seconds to write a mass message to everyone right ? It didn't go out , just a tiny wee little post by dpr saying don't worry just wait . He was right . He always is . :-)
But it's a business here . You can see how vendors would put pressure on SR to delete these posts that could slow sales. It's good business.
Disappointing post. "We" don't hide glitches or problems or anything - whenever a problem arises, people post about it and those posts are addressed, not deleted or hidden. The image glitch was addressed as well and there was no attempt to hide it either. Not sure what you are getting at with this post of yours, but it makes it sound as though we are hiding serious issues from users and that is NOT the case. Moderators here are privy to exactly the same information you all are - no more. Posts are never censored unless they break the rules or endanger someone.
-
hello, scout. :) can you please tell me if a dcn , or otherwise, would show a seized item, or? that may be the nail in the coffin, in the situation.
-
I highly doubt they'd run the risk of alerting the receiver by making any kind of note on the online tracking info for an item about to be used in a CD.
-
I highly doubt they'd run the risk of alerting the receiver by making any kind of note on the online tracking info for an item about to be used in a CD.
Ah ha! But they already brought it here! Remember? Opened it , drilled me, then left. A little time has gone by, but not much. The question of it is being avoided, heavily. :/
Sorry , scout. I hate bothering you with my issues. You're an awesome person, ALWAYS been there, etc. If I had the coin I would tip the hell out of you man.
Edit: OK, I DID have $3 in my account. Sent it to you. Now you can retire from moderation! :P (Not kissing ass either, you know how I am)
-
hahahah, thank you! :D
Also, yes, I vividly remember that they brought it to you - - I just meant that wherever they intercepted it along the way, they would not have made any kind of comment saying so on the online tracking info. They wouldn't have wanted to tip anyone off and possibly give them time to clean house.
-
hahahah, thank you! :D
Also, yes, I vividly remember that they brought it to you - - I just meant that wherever they intercepted it along the way, they would not have made any kind of comment saying so on the online tracking info. They wouldn't have wanted to tip anyone off and possibly give them time to clean house.
Youre welcome :) And yes I sorta gathered that, wanted to make sure!
But yes... I am screwed here. I will not get a dime back. Some agree, others dont. Like one person, who accidently sent me OVER $500 in coin, by accident, and I sent it back, straight away. Htf does that? I do. Because I am not an asshole, and I work just as hard as anyone else. Fuck it. I took the risk, nothing came. Im being accused of being a junkie fucking liar, etc. Its not worth the energy. *yells at monitor* :P
Thanks again, scout! Youre awesome. And I would man-kiss you if I wasnt so insecure, and it were possible!
-
I don't know if any one mentioned this yet in any of these threads. But, the few cases that are known I don't think the SR connection was discovered till after the fact or Sr connection is speculative at best. Of course that does not stop the media or LEO from exaggerating the story.
-
I don't know if any one mentioned this yet in any of these threads. But, the few cases that are known I don't think the SR connection was discovered till after the fact or Sr connection is speculative at best. Of course that does not stop the media or LEO from exaggerating the story.
I agree, but wouldnt take much stake in that idea. Im sure there have been a few who snitched out their vendors, the site. Some people know nothing of honor. Self-preservation is very popular with the human animal , as it is all animals. Personally, I'd serve time. *HARD knocking of wood here*
-
I don't know if any one mentioned this yet in any of these threads. But, the few cases that are known I don't think the SR connection was discovered till after the fact or Sr connection is speculative at best. Of course that does not stop the media or LEO from exaggerating the story.
I agree, but wouldnt take much stake in that idea. Im sure there have been a few who snitched out their vendors, the site. Some people know nothing of honor. Self-preservation is very popular with the human animal , as it is all animals. Personally, I'd serve time. *HARD knocking of wood here*
What exactly is telling on the vendor/ site going to do? Personally I keep a nice, healthy amount of paranoia but its simple. BE SAFE AND NOT SLOPPY. If nothing illegal is linked to you and you aren't sloppy IRL a bust would be fairly tough to make.