Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Rastaman Vibration on September 27, 2013, 08:25 am
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Lets say the unthinkable happens. Lets say your package gets intercepted by LE. Do you have a plan?
You should.
Here's my plan:
If the package doesnt show up or I receive a love letter, I will never use that address for SR shit again.
I've done a little risk analysis on my chances of a CD. I am only a buyer, and I don't really deal with quantity, so that's pretty low there. I also live in a large metropolitan area, and the LE resources at my location are already stretched pretty thin. So I think that lowers my risk even further. So I don't really have a plan for a CD, because I don't think I need one.
But I do have a plan in case the cops show up for a little knock-and-talk. Don't talk to the police. Deny deny deny.
What's your plan?
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Never order to your home address or an address linked to you in anyway shape or form, involving others you know creates weak links in the chain and involves other people in your business, bad on all counts.
Do not keep drugs at your place of residence.
Have a safe computer and internet set up, ensure you leave no trace of your SR activity where LE can find it, encrypt everything always. If you can access the internet anonymously e.g. not via your home network then do it.
If LE turns up the only conversation I'll be having is with my lawyer.
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Pretty worthy thread IMO. You'll probably get loads of people will say 'just say nothing' etc etc.
I've been slightly paranoid over the last few days as I'm waiting on something that was due yesterday. I tend to think about this stuff when waiting on deliveries.
My feedback probably won't be that useful, as I'm not overly experienced in this sort of thing.
If LE turn up I will do the following
1. Deny everything, act like whoever sent this package is trying to stitch me up for some reason.
2. If the cops get overly keen have a warrant etc. I will hope the find my 'Small' stash as opposed to the slightly larger one - which is in a relatively obvious area (small one).
3. Call a lawyer ASAP if taken into custody.
That's the plan, but it's nearly impossible to say what will happen in this situation, it's a case by case thing really.....
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Never order to your home address or an address linked to you in anyway shape or form, involving others you know creates weak links in the chain and involves other people in your business, bad on all counts.
Do not keep drugs at your place of residence.
Have a safe computer and internet set up, ensure you leave no trace of your SR activity where LE can find it, encrypt everything always. If you can access the internet anonymously e.g. not via your home network then do it.
If LE turns up the only conversation I'll be having is with my lawyer.
SameSame.... much respect for you sir you are a credit to this forum.
However, I do think this is a little unrealistic.
I mean, a huge proportion of people don't even fucking PGP their delivery details. Fucking doubtful they'd have anonymous drop points...
Just my view......
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Never order to your home address or an address linked to you in anyway shape or form, involving others you know creates weak links in the chain and involves other people in your business, bad on all counts.
Do not keep drugs at your place of residence.
Have a safe computer and internet set up, ensure you leave no trace of your SR activity where LE can find it, encrypt everything always. If you can access the internet anonymously e.g. not via your home network then do it.
If LE turns up the only conversation I'll be having is with my lawyer.
SameSame.... much respect for you sir you are a credit to this forum.
However, I do think this is a little unrealistic.
I mean, a huge proportion of people don't even fucking PGP their delivery details. Fucking doubtful they'd have anonymous drop points...
Just my view......
With respect users_dont_lose_drugs I disagree with you too, safe anonymous drops are within reach of everyone willing to invest the time effort and energy into researching how to do it. Anyone serious about their liberty should invest the time to secure safe arrangements, I suspect those who cannot even be bothered with PGP are also not going to look into other common sense ways to navigate SR safely though, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to educate as many people as possible though.
It took me many months to get my head around everything SR related, I now sever the link between myself and my orders at every turn, why do you think that is an unrealistic expectation for others to achieve? maybe not everyone should be using SR if that's the case.
...and I have NEVER lost my drugs, I would be heartbroken ;)
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I do. But I'd cut off my right tit before I posted it here - you can be damn sure LE are all over these forums like a rash! Probably got a special unit at the NSA just caching and tagging every thread for analysis. No fucking way I'm gonna expose that kind of info to universe....
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Never order to your home address or an address linked to you in anyway shape or form, involving others you know creates weak links in the chain and involves other people in your business, bad on all counts.
Do not keep drugs at your place of residence.
Have a safe computer and internet set up, ensure you leave no trace of your SR activity where LE can find it, encrypt everything always. If you can access the internet anonymously e.g. not via your home network then do it.
If LE turns up the only conversation I'll be having is with my lawyer.
SameSame.... much respect for you sir you are a credit to this forum.
However, I do think this is a little unrealistic.
I mean, a huge proportion of people don't even fucking PGP their delivery details. Fucking doubtful they'd have anonymous drop points...
Just my view......
With respect users_dont_lose_drugs I disagree with you too, safe anonymous drops are within reach of everyone willing to invest the time effort and energy into researching how to do it. Anyone serious about their liberty should invest the time to secure safe arrangements, I suspect those who cannot even be bothered with PGP are also not going to look into other common sense ways to navigate SR safely though, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to educate as many people as possible though.
It took me many months to get my head around everything SR related, I now sever the link between myself and my orders at every turn, why do you think that is an unrealistic expectation for others to achieve? maybe not everyone should be using SR if that's the case.
...and I have NEVER lost my drugs, I would be heartbroken ;)
:)
Now this I agree on 100%. I'm in a similar situation to yourself.
It's just I've been on here for a while now, and my experience tells me that some people don't value their security as much as you or I. I remember a thread a while ago, where a stack of vendors said 95% of people don't even PGP.
But you are totally correct.... what you stipulate above is completely achievable.
Again, I value your posts.....
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1. Retain a good defense lawyer.
2. Dont talk to anyone but him.
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I do. But I'd cut off my right tit before I posted it here - you can be damn sure LE are all over these forums like a rash! Probably got a special unit at the NSA just caching and tagging every thread for analysis. No fucking way I'm gonna expose that kind of info to universe....
Damn right.
NSA, CIA and Obama that reptilian ass licking fuck can go to hell.
USA needs a revolution where everyone in the white house, the fed, big pharma, and other government agencies both secretive and not all get hanged in the street for all to see!
Enough with tyranny!
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I'd like to think I'm organized with similar protection and plausible deniability to that mentioned above. Above all, for me, it's about keeping a low profile and only associating with people I trust. I'm not out selling to randoms or getting high in public or when I have to drive. I really don't worry about the postal system, I view that part as the most secure link in the chain actually. The only time I sweat is when I have to drive somewhere with a parcel hidden in the car, but I just act casual, drive the speed limit, and keep myself in a grown man frame of mind.
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I'd like to think I'm organized with similar protection and plausible deniability to that mentioned above. Above all, for me, it's about keeping a low profile and only associating with people I trust. I'm not out selling to randoms or getting high in public or when I have to drive. I really don't worry about the postal system, I view that part as the most secure link in the chain actually. The only time I sweat is when I have to drive somewhere with a parcel hidden in the car, but I just act casual, drive the speed limit, and keep myself in a grown man frame of mind.
Yeah, and don't wear baggy pants with your ass hangin' out and a hoodie dipshits. This is how it's done; dress smart and look respectable, don't use slang or colloquialisms, don't sweat it! I get stopped by sniffer dogs all the time when I'm dressed in a hoodie (never carrying then of course) and you know what? I never see those suits getting stopped while I'm being searched, only ever kids in caps, hoods, and trainers. And I know that's bullshit, cause city suits are some of the biggest cocaine users around!
From Illuminatus!:
"Fuckin' faggots," the cop said as we went out the door.
"All hail Discordia," I told him cheerfully. "Let's get out of this neighborhood," I added to Hagbard.
"My car is right here," he said, pointing to a goddam Mercedes.
"For an anarchist, you sure live a lot like a capitalist," I commented as we got into that beautiful machine crystallized out of stolen labor and surplus value.
"I'm not a masochist," Hagbard replied. "The world makes me uncomfortable enough. I see no reason to make myself more uncomfortable. And I'm damned if I'll drive a broken-down jalopy that spends half its time in a garage being repaired merely because that would make me seem more 'dedicated' to
you left-wing simpletons. Besides," he added practically, "the police never stop a Mercedes and search it. How many times a week do you get stopped and harassed, with your beard and your psychedelic Slaveswagon, you damned moralist?"
"Often enough," I admitted, "that I'm afraid to transport dope in it."
"This car is full of dope," he said blithely. "I'm making a big delivery to a dealer up in Evanston, on the Northwestern campus, tomorrow."
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Yeah, and don't wear baggy pants with your ass hangin' out and a hoodie dipshits. This is how it's done; dress smart and look respectable, don't use slang or colloquialisms, don't sweat it! I get stopped by sniffer dogs all the time when I'm dressed in a hoodie (never carrying then of course) and you know what? I never see those suits getting stopped while I'm being searched, only ever kids in caps, hoods, and trainers. And I know that's bullshit, cause city suits are some of the biggest cocaine users around!
Exactly, but don`t wear over/undersized suits having tatoos or dread-locks that won`t work :D
back to topic
Of course I tried to figure out a plan for every possible situation. This helps fighting the paranoia tendencies.
safe anonymous drops are within reach of everyone willing to invest the time effort and energy into researching how to do it
If that includes activities which break even more laws, maybe with a much harder penality, it might not be better, especially if there is a small chance to get busted. It is like a personal risk-benefit analysis.
So always know the laws of your country/state should be another point, before you can start to think about plans.
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Yeah, and don't wear baggy pants with your ass hangin' out and a hoodie dipshits. This is how it's done; dress smart and look respectable, don't use slang or colloquialisms, don't sweat it! I get stopped by sniffer dogs all the time when I'm dressed in a hoodie (never carrying then of course) and you know what? I never see those suits getting stopped while I'm being searched, only ever kids in caps, hoods, and trainers. And I know that's bullshit, cause city suits are some of the biggest cocaine users around!
Exactly, but don`t wear over/undersized suits having tatoos or dread-locks that won`t work :D
back to topic
Of course I tried to figure out a plan for every possible situation. This helps fighting the paranoia tendencies.
safe anonymous drops are within reach of everyone willing to invest the time effort and energy into researching how to do it
If that includes activities which break even more laws, maybe with a much harder penality, it might not be better, especially if there is a small chance to get busted. It is like a personal risk-benefit analysis.
So always know the laws of your country/state should be another point, before you can start to think about plans.
Risk versus reward, understand the risks you are taking and the associated penalties for each illegal act you intend on committing with a risk assessment of the likelihood of actually being caught and weigh them up against each other and then make an informed decision on what risks you consider are acceptable and what are not.
I seriously doubt that many people on here actually does this with the exception of some clued in bulk buyers and vendors.
For example if I consider the risks associated with opening a PO box with fake ID to use as a drop over ordering to my home address I need to consider a) what are the additional penalties for using fake ID (identity fraud) to open the PO over b) the penalties for being caught ordering drugs to my home address. Then I need to consider the likelihood of being caught doing both.
If drugs are intercepted coming to my home address LE can immediately link me to the order, they may have a hard time proving that I actually ordered it but all the same my name is in the frame right from the get go. Personal risk associated with this should be considered quite high if I am ordering more than personal amounts on a fairly regular basis.
If drugs are intercepted coming to a PO box then LE can investigate the owner of the box and come up with nothing that links me to the box. They could in theory put the box under surveillance but given mail can be left for weeks on end in a PO box without issue they could have a very long wait on their hands. Personal risk associated with this method would IMO be considered as quite low even though the penalties for being caught are harsher the actual chances of being caught are exponentially lower over all.
Do I consider the possibility of harsher penalties for lower overall risk worth it? yes.
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That's very interesting @ssbd. Its a matter of personal judgement, I suppose. I also did some risk assesments, and decided not to use a fake to open a PO box. Ultimately, for me, it came down to plausible deniability, and the likelyhood of LE being able to obtain a search warrant for a CD. For me, I think the odds of that are very very low.
Another thing that really sketched me out of the fake ID thing was that secret service bust a few months back. I just figured the fake was adding a lot more risk to the equation.
Great to hear others' opinions tho! Thanks for sharing :)
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At the end of the day that is just my perspective on things, hopefully it will encourage others to give serious thought and consideration to their situations as well, as you say it is a matter of personal judgement.
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Well there is one problem in applying all this wonderful advice for me.
I live in a small area. Though I could easily blend in with all the Hispanics here I don't look like a person that typically lives in this area, and I wouldn't if I totally changed my image. And therein lies my problem with a Fake ID. There isn't enough people here for somebody at the post office to not know right away my real identity if not my entire name.
So my only option is to go with a tested drop. Good information and a solid opinion SSBD though. ;)
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Never order to your home address or an address linked to you in anyway shape or form, involving others you know creates weak links in the chain and involves other people in your business, bad on all counts.
Do not keep drugs at your place of residence.
Have a safe computer and internet set up, ensure you leave no trace of your SR activity where LE can find it, encrypt everything always. If you can access the internet anonymously e.g. not via your home network then do it.
If LE turns up the only conversation I'll be having is with my lawyer.
With all due respect samesamebutdifferent (and I mean that sincerely), that's not possible for all of us. And for those of us who are small time buyers, it's impractical. However, I'd like to stress the importance I've what you said about having a safe PC set up (whole disk encryption on mac and linux -- truecrypt on windows AND on thumb drives for all OS's). And public wifi is a great idea. If you're not going to do that, then your home connection better be Fort Knox-like!
With that said, I absolutely agree that if a cop knocks on my door asking to "come in and talk," the answer would definitely be NO. If I'm not under arrest, and they don't have a warrant, they're getting the door slammed in their faces. If I am under arrest, lawyer will be the only words out of my mouth.
To the OP, my plan is to never answer the door when I'm expecting a package. If they leave a slip in my box saying I need to come to the post office, then it's going in the trash. And yes, I'd never be able to order to my home again.
To be honest, I've never bought more than a QP of bud on here and now I'm down to smaller quantities, so I'm not a target. But the problem I'm worried about is the postal inspectors/workers stumbling upon my package coincidentally. Then I'm fucked!
I also have a mailman who likes to deliver mail to the wrong houses. I had a package of Adderall delivered to my neighbor last week. Thank god they walked it over to my box! I was shitting bricks!
As for not keeping drugs at home, where are the buyers who are personal consumers supposed to keep them. I agree that in the days when I was flipping QPs, they went straight out the door within an hour. But now that I'm buying half ounces for my head stash, where am I supposed to keep it?
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Never order to your home address or an address linked to you in anyway shape or form, involving others you know creates weak links in the chain and involves other people in your business, bad on all counts.
Do not keep drugs at your place of residence.
Have a safe computer and internet set up, ensure you leave no trace of your SR activity where LE can find it, encrypt everything always. If you can access the internet anonymously e.g. not via your home network then do it.
If LE turns up the only conversation I'll be having is with my lawyer.
With all due respect samesamebutdifferent (and I mean that sincerely), that's not possible for all of us. And for those of us who are small time buyers, it's impractical. However, I'd like to stress the importance I've what you said about having a safe PC set up (whole disk encryption on mac and linux -- truecrypt on windows AND on thumb drives for all OS's). And public wifi is a great idea. If you're not going to do that, then your home connection better be Fort Knox-like!
With that said, I absolutely agree that if a cop knocks on my door asking to "come in and talk," the answer would definitely be NO. If I'm not under arrest, and they don't have a warrant, they're getting the door slammed in their faces. If I am under arrest, lawyer will be the only words out of my mouth.
To the OP, my plan is to never answer the door when I'm expecting a package. If they leave a slip in my box saying I need to come to the post office, then it's going in the trash. And yes, I'd never be able to order to my home again.
To be honest, I've never bought more than a QP of bud on here and now I'm down to smaller quantities, so I'm not a target. But the problem I'm worried about is the postal inspectors/workers stumbling upon my package coincidentally. Then I'm fucked!
I also have a mailman who likes to deliver mail to the wrong houses. I had a package of Adderall delivered to my neighbor last week. Thank god they walked it over to my box! I was shitting bricks!
As for not keeping drugs at home, where are the buyers who are personal consumers supposed to keep them. I agree that in the days when I was flipping QPs, they went straight out the door within an hour. But now that I'm buying half ounces for my head stash, where am I supposed to keep it?
Everyone should consider their own security arrangements accordingly, those are my arrangements.
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Everyone should consider their own security arrangements accordingly, those are my arrangements.
This.
Everyone's situation is different. There's no way one plan will fit everyone's needs. The point is, you should put some though into it. You should think about your risks, and how to minimize them.
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imo, due to the nature of SR, a lot of people are on this site under the influence of drugs.. so yeah, these precautions are good and all, but if you're deep into a meth binge.. you probably won't give a shit. like now, for instance, i'm on an LSD trip lol.
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As ssbd say person need think of security arrangements for person. Different for small user, big user, small dealer, big dealer...
As for not keeping drugs at home, where are the buyers who are personal consumers supposed to keep them. I agree that in the days when I was flipping QPs, they went straight out the door within an hour. But now that I'm buying half ounces for my head stash, where am I supposed to keep it?
If only small user keep it at home. All has curve where safety and inconvenience join. Your join in other place then his join.