Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: heisenberg2.0 on September 20, 2013, 02:14 pm
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Hi All,
Figured I would put the gossip monkeys out of business and make the announcement on here as well.
It was a fun run while it lasted and being press officer/spokesperson for an online black marketplace is certainly going to be one of the jobs I look back on with most fondest memory's.
While I'm sure lots of you will only be too happy about this I hope we can all agree Atlantis shook up the market and pushed SR to implement a lot of changes.
PS. DPR, You can stop with the improvements now.Your competition is calling it a day for now :(
Below is the official announcement from the Atlantis forum
http://atlmlxbk2mbupwgr.onion/index.php?topic=3726.0
Dear all users,
We have some terrible news. Regrettably it has come time for Atlantis to close its doors. Due to security reasons outside of our control we have no choice but to cease operation of the Atlantis marketplace. Believe us when we say we wouldn't be doing this if it weren't 100% necessary.
Due to the urgency we are allowing all users to withdrawal all their coins for one week before the site, and forum, are shut down permanently. Please remove all of your coins, these will not be recoverable after one week from now. Anything remaining in your accounts will be donated to a drug related charity of our choosing.
We wish to thank all of you for making Atlantis a great and memorable place to trade on. We wish you all the best in your future endeavours.
Best wishes,
The Atlantis team
I will update with more info and maybe answer a few questions as I learn more or maybe I just get stereotypically drunk now and beg DPR for a job.
There will be lots of conspiracy theory's springing up here and no doubt the honeypot ones will continue but I can only say as the first and only "employee" of Atlantis I never believed any of it to be true based on my communications and general vibe of those I dealt with.
At the very least I was contacted by people "pertaining" to be LE so unless LE were looking to flip someone working for LE I don't know any more.
Oh and thanks to you guys for teaching me how to handle the heat, You never made it too easy and I was always up for a challenge
May Silk Road survive and prosper
H2.0
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Sorry to hear it.
I'm sure many of us would be very interested in hearing more details... especially since you said this is "due to security reasons".
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sick if true :(
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sick if true :(
Their Facebook page makes the same statement.
https://www.facebook.com/AtlantisMarket
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They burned their wick at both ends unfortunately, attempting to tap into a black market with explosive speed and marketing razzle-dazzle... a good move in the real world if done right, but probably a less wise option for operating an underground drug marketplace.
These things need time, patience and slow, steady growth. Otherwise, security will (as has been proven) become an issue
RIP, I guess
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Looks like the Feds have all of the information they need now...I wonder when the raids will start?
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Yes its true, it seems unusual considering it was making money albeit not in the ball park of SR but still another place waiting to catch the fall out if the road were to be shut down. RIP Atlantis :(
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A moment of silence for our fallen brethren....
But to be honest, what kind of black market makes public advertisements? I kind of saw this coming.
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A pity. Although I never visited Atlantis I felt that a little competition was good for SR.
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At the very least I was contacted by people "pertaining" to be LE so unless LE were looking to flip someone working for LE I don't know any more.
I'm sorry you're out of a job. Getting drunk would probably be in order.
What does the above statement about LE mean exactly other than they contacted you? - can you enlarge on it a little? What did they say? I'd also like more details of the security risk. Are customers or their security at risk or have been compromised in any way?
I never joined up on Atlantis, purely because I like Silk Road, worship DPR and his political motives and most of all because I know the dealers on the market that I can trust not to grass me up, sell my details or post me rat poison.
Plus, I hated all the pishing links relating to that site and didn't like the fact that the DDoS attacks started when Atlantis did, which seemed fishy (at best). It'll be interesting to see if attacks like that don't happen to SR now that Atlantis has closed its doors.
Anyway, details please?
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Care to comment on the nature of the security concerns?
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And lol at "Anything remaining in your accounts will be donated to a drug related charity of our choosing". Translation "we'll withdraw it all and go spend it on drugs for ourselves on Silk Road".
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It was an interesting idea. But, they stuck their dicks in crazy (taunted law enforcement/dea/fbi/etc) so, not a big surprise.
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Good riddance to bad rubbish......snapping at DPR's heels. Looks like your little doggy has been put down for good.
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Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on the 1/9/13 , " Nobody has gone anywhere, we are just down for maintenance " Its just a terrible person spreading FUD........(. ha! )
Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on 10/7/2013 "I'm only here for the chat Atlantis is much better for drugs" ( Wormed your way in then claimed you're a mod then admin.)
Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on 10/7/2013 " la la la la LA LA LA LA LA LLA " ( interesting choice for a first post.)
)
Quote from Heisenberg on 10/7/2013 " princess peach is a whore who stole my money" ( what's that you're chatting now?
Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on 11/7/2013 "I know what happened, DPR sold the ownership of SR, and is now behind Atlantis, come on it's practically the same site people. And if he could pull that off , he would have his uber legend status preserved"
The list goes on, if you check he acts like a dick for the first 18 posts, then as if by magic. He tries to be taken serious. Have a look at the ramblings, if you believe this crank is a mod/admin you need your head testing. No wonder it went under, this clown seriously can't be part of the team.
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Not that I was ever so stupid but if you ever did have similar SR passwords now is definitely the time to change them.
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Your pride and greed destroyed you. A meritous individual does not call to the people for attention; they attend to him because they know he is meritous. A young man's pride is a story as old as time, but we absolutely cannot forget our place in this world; we are much lesser than those who seek to destroy us, and therefore we must hide. Times have changed. The reality is that in real life, we would be absolutely annhialated by the forces we passively fight. I think it is important that we do not forget this, and DPR has warned us against this type of behavior. Do not forget your place. And shun pride at every opportunity, for it is an evil force, promising glory, that only seeks to destroy you.
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Atlantis engaged in a wide variety of insecure practices, just from the publicly available information. Who knows what their server infrastructure and cash out methods were like. Wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the admins was identified or they have info that they are going to be raided or compromised.
That's all speculation, of course. Maybe the admins finally read all the papers that came out this year showing how insecure Tor hidden services are and decided to quit while they were ahead.
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Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on the 1/9/13 , " Nobody has gone anywhere, we are just down for maintenance " Its just a terrible person spreading FUD........(. ha! )
Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on 10/7/2013 "I'm only here for the chat Atlantis is much better for drugs" ( Wormed your way in then claimed you're a mod then admin.)
Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on 10/7/2013 " la la la la LA LA LA LA LA LLA " ( interesting choice for a first post.)
)
Quote from Heisenberg on 10/7/2013 " princess peach is a whore who stole my money" ( what's that you're chatting now?
Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on 11/7/2013 "I know what happened, DPR sold the ownership of SR, and is now behind Atlantis, come on it's practically the same site people. And if he could pull that off , he would have his uber legend status preserved"
The list goes on, no wonder it went under, this clown seriously can't be part of the team.
Some people spam to 50 posts, some spam the whole time they are here.
guess which one you are?
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Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on the 1/9/13 , " Nobody has gone anywhere, we are just down for maintenance " Its just a terrible person spreading FUD........(. ha! )
Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on 10/7/2013 "I'm only here for the chat Atlantis is much better for drugs" ( Wormed your way in then claimed you're a mod then admin.)
Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on 10/7/2013 " la la la la LA LA LA LA LA LLA " ( interesting choice for a first post.)
)
Quote from Heisenberg on 10/7/2013 " princess peach is a whore who stole my money" ( what's that you're chatting now?
Quote from Heisenberg2.0 on 11/7/2013 "I know what happened, DPR sold the ownership of SR, and is now behind Atlantis, come on it's practically the same site people. And if he could pull that off , he would have his uber legend status preserved"
The list goes on, no wonder it went under, this clown seriously can't be part of the team.
Some people spam to 50 posts, some spam the whole time they are here.
guess which one you are?
Some people don't claim to be admin/mod of Atlantis do they. So go and get fucked you fucking wanker. Have you seen DPR act like that? No we all spam, but we don't half way through claim to be a Mod then admin.
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Don't let the door hit you in the ass!
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Not that I was ever so stupid but if you ever did have similar SR passwords now is definitely the time to change them.
+1
100% agreed.
That's why I think there were so many phising sites for Atlantis. So people would create an account on a fake Atlantis site and probably using the same login details as Silk Road and they scammers could easily have access to their Silk Road account.
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Sorry but its not like anyone didn't see this coming. Until the security compromise is known we should assume all vendors vending over their with the same name on Silk Road are potentially compromised. Someone should start composing a list.
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^^^^ And why is that? How would belonging to another site with completely different passwords be compromising just because you use the same name? The only compromising thing would be your incoming and outgoing BTC wallet but I don't know any vendor who doesn't treat their wallets with direct connections to these sites as dirty which is why we clean the btc from that point on.
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And do how do we as buyers know you as a vendor did that? Until more is known I won't be passing on my address to any vendor linked to Atlantis.
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Hi All,
Figured I would put the gossip monkeys out of business and make the announcement on here as well.
It was a fun run while it lasted and being press officer/spokesperson for an online black marketplace is certainly going to be one of the jobs I look back on with most fondest memory's.
While I'm sure lots of you will only be too happy about this I hope we can all agree Atlantis shook up the market and pushed SR to implement a lot of changes.
PS. DPR, You can stop with the improvements now.Your competition is calling it a day for now :(
Below is the official announcement from the Atlantis forum
http://atlmlxbk2mbupwgr.onion/index.php?topic=3726.0
Dear all users,
We have some terrible news. Regrettably it has come time for Atlantis to close its doors. Due to security reasons outside of our control we have no choice but to cease operation of the Atlantis marketplace. Believe us when we say we wouldn't be doing this if it weren't 100% necessary.
Due to the urgency we are allowing all users to withdrawal all their coins for one week before the site, and forum, are shut down permanently. Please remove all of your coins, these will not be recoverable after one week from now. Anything remaining in your accounts will be donated to a drug related charity of our choosing.
We wish to thank all of you for making Atlantis a great and memorable place to trade on. We wish you all the best in your future endeavours.
Best wishes,
The Atlantis team
I will update with more info and maybe answer a few questions as I learn more or maybe I just get stereotypically drunk now and beg DPR for a job.
There will be lots of conspiracy theory's springing up here and no doubt the honeypot ones will continue but I can only say as the first and only "employee" of Atlantis I never believed any of it to be true based on my communications and general vibe of those I dealt with.
At the very least I was contacted by people "pertaining" to be LE so unless LE were looking to flip someone working for LE I don't know any more.
Oh and thanks to you guys for teaching me how to handle the heat, You never made it too easy and I was always up for a challenge
May Silk Road survive and prosper
H2.0
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The first post I read of yours on SR was about how you convinced SR admins to use the SMF filter to block the spam Atalantis URL's being posted, though someone else had posted that hours earlier and you used that for your own benefit. You lost all respect from me for that. No loss, Atlantis had no customers and mostly teenage sellers, shame, but you reap what you sow.
World keep on turning.
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Well I think the competition is good and it may have been helping keep commission fees on Silk Road down.
I prefer Silk Road and I primarily use Silk Road, but I also liked Atlantis so it's sad to see it go.
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so i just had a thought: this is a huge victory for sr since atlantis buyers and vendors are going to come to sr? or am i wrong in thinking this?
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so i just had a thought: this is a huge victory for sr since atlantis buyers and vendors are going to come to sr? or am i wrong in thinking this?
You're Wrong. Atlantis was superior to SR due to the lower fees and most exclusive vendors on there will go out of business. Tragedy.
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On the flip side If LE did have anything with taking it down it makes you think Silk Road is now thier number 1 target, lets hope it stays around for a long while yet.
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And do how do we as buyers know you as a vendor did that? Until more is known I won't be passing on my address to any vendor linked to Atlantis.
You should be passing on your address encrypted anyways.
Atlantis was a better site but NO ONE was there. There were just no customers. I stopped using Atlantis months ago because there was no business to be had. I really wish SR would institute their automatic encryption system.
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On the flip side If LE did have anything with taking it down it makes you think Silk Road is now thier number 1 target, lets hope it stays around for a long while yet.
SR has always been their number one target. Long before Atlantis and now apparently long after too. If anything this just says they can break Atlantis but not SR.
I've always assumed that LE has had SR's number but are just trying to build as many cases against as many vendors as they can before pulling the trigger but now I'm not too sure. I mean they took a while to take down ShadowCrew, CardersMarket, DarkMarket, and all of those carding sites of the old days and they were not Tor onion based sites but just regular old sites on regular old servers (one was based from San Fransisco!). And almost every one was taking down by use of a rat not by any high tech means.
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Sorry but its not like anyone didn't see this coming. Until the security compromise is known we should assume all vendors vending over their with the same name on Silk Road are potentially compromised. Someone should start composing a list.
Um WTF? Why?
I am on Atlantis as well, but I use different passwords and when I withdraw BTC I send it to Silk Road, not my bitcoin exchange wallet, that way BTC can't even be tracked...
I also 100% agree with DrMDA's 2 previous posts. Silk Road would always have been #1 target.
And yes Silk Road would be better if they implemented some of Atlantis' ideas.
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And do how do we as buyers know you as a vendor did that? Until more is known I won't be passing on my address to any vendor linked to Atlantis.
You should be passing on your address encrypted anyways.
Atlantis was a better site but NO ONE was there. There were just no customers. I stopped using Atlantis months ago because there was no business to be had. I really wish SR would institute their automatic encryption system.
I can see why a lot of people would think the automatic encryption system was a good idea but personally I prefer to do my own encryption and not put my trust in a 3rd party to do it for me. I also think it breeds laziness when it comes to taking your anonymity seriously, learning how to use PGP should be a mandatory requirement for anyone using hidden services like SR.
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And do how do we as buyers know you as a vendor did that? Until more is known I won't be passing on my address to any vendor linked to Atlantis.
You should be passing on your address encrypted anyways.
Atlantis was a better site but NO ONE was there. There were just no customers. I stopped using Atlantis months ago because there was no business to be had. I really wish SR would institute their automatic encryption system.
I can see why a lot of people would think the automatic encryption system was a good idea but personally I prefer to do my own encryption and not put my trust in a 3rd party to do it for me. I also think it breeds laziness when it comes to taking your anonymity seriously, learning how to use PGP should be a mandatory requirement for anyone using hidden services like SR.
Anyway having a 3rd party would mean it's not really end-to-end encryption, right? It seems most buyers don't even worry about encryption to begin with.
Just wanted to jump in and say never used Atlantis but I would be worried about only having a week to withdraw. I mean I was just away from SR recently for longer than that. Thankfully SR uses a backup withdrawl address. Makes me feel a bit safer.
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Care to comment on the nature of the security concerns?
My guess is that the owner of the site has made a fundamental mistake in setting up and/or running the site that would allow LE to ascertain his real identity and has decided to pull the plug on the entire operation so he can clean up the evidence trail. Being an honest guy he's given everyone a week to get their coins out rather than just ripping us all off.
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Atlantis engaged in a wide variety of insecure practices, just from the publicly available information. Who knows what their server infrastructure and cash out methods were like. Wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the admins was identified or they have info that they are going to be raided or compromised.
That's all speculation, of course. Maybe the admins finally read all the papers that came out this year showing how insecure Tor hidden services are and decided to quit while they were ahead.
Exactly.
Their fatal error was instituting auto-PGP. That sketched the hell out of a lot of people regardless of the fact that it could be turned on/off. Had they never done that, they would have probably been serious competition to SR. The one feature made them seem like a LEO honeypot. That's a stigma they couldn't overcome no matter how they explain it away.
The other issue is never instituting an account history feature. Considering how important that is for a market, be it for buyer or seller, the site should have launched with that feature in place from the get go.
I guess now if SR goes down for an extended period, everyone will flock to BMR.
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Atlantis engaged in a wide variety of insecure practices, just from the publicly available information. Who knows what their server infrastructure and cash out methods were like. Wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the admins was identified or they have info that they are going to be raided or compromised.
That's all speculation, of course. Maybe the admins finally read all the papers that came out this year showing how insecure Tor hidden services are and decided to quit while they were ahead.
Exactly.
Their fatal error was instituting auto-PGP. That sketched the hell out of a lot of people regardless of the fact that it could be turned on/off. Had they never done that, they would have probably been serious competition to SR. The one feature made them seem like a LEO honeypot. That's a stigma they couldn't overcome no matter how they explain it away.
The other issue is never instituting an account history feature. Considering how important that is for a market, be it for buyer or seller, the site should have launched with that feature in place from the get go.
I guess now if SR goes down for an extended period, everyone will flock to BMR.
Agreed. When I heard about Atlantis I was initially intrigued, but was repulsed upon hearing about this"built-in" encryption system. Immediate skepticism.
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They didn't last long at all. Guess they should have spent more time learning from the forums here.
My guess is they grew to fast and were caught unprepared by the trials and tribulations of operating on the dark web.
Sr and the Sr forums are about so much more than trading on the dark web. SR has a core philosophy with a strong eclectic community supporting it which Atlantis did not have..
I was not here at the beginning but as I understand it started from a small dedicated group that just kept growing. As new people signed up they felt like they were joining a community not just registering for a web site.
No matter if you are hiding from authorities, don't want to be profiled, are speaking on politics, or just want your privacy then these forums will teach you how to be as anonymous as possible in todays world.
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Exactly.
Their fatal error was instituting auto-PGP. That sketched the hell out of a lot of people regardless of the fact that it could be turned on/off. Had they never done that, they would have probably been serious competition to SR. The one feature made them seem like a LEO honeypot. That's a stigma they couldn't overcome no matter how they explain it away.
I don't know if that was their fatal error, but it was one of many bone-headed mistakes. Like directing their users to access the site through onion.to, which thankfully never did anything malicious but could have been an MITM proxy that stole people's account credentials like those Atlantis phishing sites. Or suggesting CryptoCat as a place to chat with reporters, when CryptoCat's encryption was broken up until a couple of months ago (why not use an in-house messaging system that you can control and secure rather than a third party service with a long history of security vulnerabilities?). Or the lack of a tumbler (how were coins transferred safely from buyers to sellers?). Or their media blitz, which brought way more unwanted attention on them than they needed, especially considering their size.
The real reason for the shut down may be far more mundane than these speculations about security problems, though. Quite simply, they weren't profitable so they closed their business. They may have planned it all along. If the media blitz didn't bring in enough customers, they were going to quit. It was a hail mary and it didn't work. They got a decent number of sign ups, or so they claimed, but that didn't convert to sales, as is demonstrated by the fact that most listings have no reviews.
The reason the media blitz didn't work and they lost in the competition against SR is not because of any security issues, since most people don't know anything about those issues and that was not a part of their decision making process. They lost because they couldn't beat the network effect on SR.
How likely is Facebook to be replaced by another social network at this point? Any new social network will be a wasteland. If you sign up, you will have no friends there. But if you sign up on Facebook, half the people you know will already by on it, creating a better experience. SR's biggest asset is the people who are already using it. A new buyer can get instant access to 1200+ vendors, while a new vendor can get instant access to tens of thousands of buyers.
Another aspect of it is the psychology of brand loyalty. SR has proven to be a trusted platform. People like and trust DPR (they don't merely put up him like Mark Zuckerberg, for example). People are rightfully suspicious of others in the drug world, because there are a lot of scammers and assholes, but SR works for the vast majority of people. It has proven itself. People stick with what works, rather than take risks with new products (or markets) even if they are theoretically a better alternative.
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Hi All,
Figured I would put the gossip monkeys out of business and make the announcement on here as well.
It was a fun run while it lasted and being press officer/spokesperson for an online black marketplace is certainly going to be one of the jobs I look back on with most fondest memory's.
While I'm sure lots of you will only be too happy about this I hope we can all agree Atlantis shook up the market and pushed SR to implement a lot of changes.
PS. DPR, You can stop with the improvements now.Your competition is calling it a day for now :(
Below is the official announcement from the Atlantis forum
http://atlmlxbk2mbupwgr.onion/index.php?topic=3726.0
Dear all users,
We have some terrible news. Regrettably it has come time for Atlantis to close its doors. Due to security reasons outside of our control we have no choice but to cease operation of the Atlantis marketplace. Believe us when we say we wouldn't be doing this if it weren't 100% necessary.
Due to the urgency we are allowing all users to withdrawal all their coins for one week before the site, and forum, are shut down permanently. Please remove all of your coins, these will not be recoverable after one week from now. Anything remaining in your accounts will be donated to a drug related charity of our choosing.
We wish to thank all of you for making Atlantis a great and memorable place to trade on. We wish you all the best in your future endeavours.
Best wishes,
The Atlantis team
I will update with more info and maybe answer a few questions as I learn more or maybe I just get stereotypically drunk now and beg DPR for a job.
There will be lots of conspiracy theory's springing up here and no doubt the honeypot ones will continue but I can only say as the first and only "employee" of Atlantis I never believed any of it to be true based on my communications and general vibe of those I dealt with.
At the very least I was contacted by people "pertaining" to be LE so unless LE were looking to flip someone working for LE I don't know any more.
Oh and thanks to you guys for teaching me how to handle the heat, You never made it too easy and I was always up for a challenge
May Silk Road survive and prosper
H2.0
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The first post I read of yours on SR was about how you convinced SR admins to use the SMF filter to block the spam Atalantis URL's being posted, though someone else had posted that hours earlier and you used that for your own benefit. You lost all respect from me for that. No loss, Atlantis had no customers and mostly teenage sellers, shame, but you reap what you sow.
World keep on turning.
Oh there's plenty more where that came from.
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Care to comment on the nature of the security concerns?
My guess is that the owner of the site has made a fundamental mistake in setting up and/or running the site that would allow LE to ascertain his real identity and has decided to pull the plug on the entire operation so he can clean up the evidence trail. Being an honest guy he's given everyone a week to get their coins out rather than just ripping us all off.
I second that. If it was LE and not just him then he wouldn't be on the boards posting and the site wouldn't continue to be up. He found a fatal weakness in his security that has been there the whole time and now he is realizing that everything must end in case they make use of it.
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Exactly.
Their fatal error was instituting auto-PGP. That sketched the hell out of a lot of people regardless of the fact that it could be turned on/off. Had they never done that, they would have probably been serious competition to SR. The one feature made them seem like a LEO honeypot. That's a stigma they couldn't overcome no matter how they explain it away.
I don't know if that was their fatal error, but it was one of many bone-headed mistakes. Like directing their users to access the site through onion.to, which thankfully never did anything malicious but could have been an MITM proxy that stole people's account credentials like those Atlantis phishing sites. Or suggesting CryptoCat as a place to chat with reporters, when CryptoCat's encryption was broken up until a couple of months ago (why not use an in-house messaging system that you can control and secure rather than a third party service with a long history of security vulnerabilities?). Or the lack of a tumbler (how were coins transferred safely from buyers to sellers?). Or their media blitz, which brought way more unwanted attention on them than they needed, especially considering their size.
The real reason for the shut down may be far more mundane than these speculations about security problems, though. Quite simply, they weren't profitable so they closed their business. They may have planned it all along. If the media blitz didn't bring in enough customers, they were going to quit. It was a hail mary and it didn't work. They got a decent number of sign ups, or so they claimed, but that didn't convert to sales, as is demonstrated by the fact that most listings have no reviews.
The reason the media blitz didn't work and they lost in the competition against SR is not because of any security issues, since most people don't know anything about those issues and that was not a part of their decision making process. They lost because they couldn't beat the network effect on SR.
How likely is Facebook to be replaced by another social network at this point? Any new social network will be a wasteland. If you sign up, you will have no friends there. But if you sign up on Facebook, half the people you know will already by on it, creating a better experience. SR's biggest asset is the people who are already using it. A new buyer can get instant access to 1200+ vendors, while a new vendor can get instant access to tens of thousands of buyers.
Another aspect of it is the psychology of brand loyalty. SR has proven to be a trusted platform. People like and trust DPR (they don't merely put up him like Mark Zuckerberg, for example). People are rightfully suspicious of others in the drug world, because there are a lot of scammers and assholes, but SR works for the vast majority of people. It has proven itself. People stick with what works, rather than take risks with new products (or markets) even if they are theoretically a better alternative.
This is spot on the money.
+Karma.
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Atlantis? More like Costa Concordia, headed up by the same captain. That's what showboating gets you. (Running out of puns).
Bank robberies don't happen that much anymore due to the fact that banks are much harder targets than they used to be (and they also don't carry as much cash anymore). One of the last successful bank robberies in my town happened a few years ago. It was an inside job - the perps knew that on the day of the robbery the bank would be carrying a six figure sum. The robbery started, the tellers activated the security screens, the robbers grabbed a customer and another staff member and threatened to shoot them if they didn't lower the screens. Of course the staff lowered the screens. The perps knew how long the safe time delays were and accounted for this. They knew police response time. Critically, they were completely covered in a one-piece black outfit. No skin whatsoever was showing. They all wore the same size shoes despite the fact that they were of different heights and likely had different shoe sizes, their shoe soles were filed down, the shoes were covered by the one-piece outfit anyway. They wore dark-tint strips of plastic taped over the eye holes of their one-piece outfits.
They got away with a quarter of a million and have never been caught. Why? Because they left LE absolutely nothing to go on. No revealing features, no distinctive hairline, no strategically-applied bandaid riding up during the action to reveal a partial tattoo, no shiny new K-mart store-brand trainers that one of the traumatised tellers noticed because they were the same kind she bought her son, no cheap sunglasses. These are the kinds of leads that result in arrests, and even professional crims inadvertently or accidentally provide them. The robbers I'm talking about didn't even speak. They were, in effect, ghosts. Four human-shaped black sacks of average height and build, nothing more could be said of them. No hair colours, complexions, accents, eye colours. They were in and out within four minutes carrying the cash in sturdy green reusable shopping bags that are available everywhere and millions of people use; the police arrived a minute later. The investigators had no suspects and few leads - a couple of stolen burnt out getaway cars which yielded nothing. Witnesses couldn't tell them anything they could go on. CCTV provided nothing of use. The mole wasn't caught, either. The bank closed that branch soon after.
SR, I think, runs like that bank job. It stays below the radar, thoroughly quarantining site operations from the trading floor. The SR admins are completely anonymous, like the bank robbers above. A cop could login to the site as a buyer, a cop could become a vendor. A cop vendor may even be able to bust those who buy from them, but that's about as good as it's going to get, and then that vendor's through. A lot of work would have gone into building that vendor. Nice work, officer; for hundreds of man hours and a bunch of cash you've caught a few recreational users who will most likely be cautioned or face community service (and if they don't say anything and have a good lawyer, they'll almost certainly walk). Undercover cop vendors can't get to other vendors, and they can't use the trading platform to harpoon the whale - they can't penetrate upstairs.
SR has a guerrilla approach, it would seem. This is the darkweb, and SR uses it well. DPR, or the people who created and manage the persona of DPR, surface briefly when necessary, then sink back into the oblivion. No flashy marketing bullshit outside the site. The less that's said and done, the less LE have to go on. No leads and the case is dead. It seems like this is the way SR runs. I hope appearances aren't misleading.
Of course there are peripheral weaknesses that could make the SR model untenable - disrupting the BTC supply, for example - but this will mean SR withers and dies. A shame, for sure. But its owners will walk away with jingling pockets instead of clinking shackles. If SR has to go down, that's how it should go down. But I reckon there's a pretty good chance SR will outlast the next Atlantis that rises and falls, and those after that.
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Nicely done. I like the way you worded that.
Absolutely right about BTC supply disruptions being the Achilles heel. SR might want to consider adding other crypto currencies to the matrix.
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so i just had a thought: this is a huge victory for sr since atlantis buyers and vendors are going to come to sr? or am i wrong in thinking this?
You're Wrong. Atlantis was superior to SR due to the lower fees and most exclusive vendors on there will go out of business. Tragedy.
As I see it, a lot of Atlantis vendors are already moving to SR. Which, I prefer since I trust in SRs security much more, you know since we dont do public advertisments on youtube and so on. Nevertheless, I do find it a shame that our brethren in arms had to leave us.
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So whats BMR like?
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Has it officially closed? How many members sellers and vendors lost funds?
where will they go?:)
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Has it officially closed? How many members sellers and vendors lost funds?
where will they go?:)
Read the original post. It has not closed yet. It is closing in one week. If you are too lazy to withdraw your funds then they will be donated to a drug related charity of Atlantis' choosing.
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If it were LE related, the whole site would be shut down and abandoned they wouldn't still be handing out refunds and allowing logins. That seems questionable.
Most likely it wasn't profitable so they shut down.
Having LE contact you while running a darksite is pretty common. Carding forums have secret service guys trying to flip them constantly with bribes. Nobody knows if they are actually SS or just informants or just competitors trying to con them into shutting down.
I don't think auto PGP encrypting messages to the vendors public key is "shady", sure it's bullshit if you trust that but if anybody has sold anything here you know at least 70% of your customers aren't using encryption at all. You have to trust DPR to wipe the logs and that the server isn't already broken into and being watched, which is very likely considering they used to sell weapons here. That just might be worth disposing of a Nginx 0day.
What was shady was their advertising campaign. They were begging for federal agent attention.
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If it were LE related, the whole site would be shut down and abandoned they wouldn't still be handing out refunds and allowing logins. That seems questionable.
Most likely it wasn't profitable so they shut down.
I interpreted the "security issues outside of our control" to mean they read the research papers and realized the Tor network, and hidden services in particular, are weak to many attacks, so they decided to quit while they were ahead. :)
But yeah that's unlikely to be the reason. The more likely reason is the site wasn't profitable enough for them to keep running it.
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Has it officially closed? How many members sellers and vendors lost funds?
where will they go?:)
Read the original post. It has not closed yet. It is closing in one week. If you are too lazy to withdraw your funds then they will be donated to a drug related charity of Atlantis' choosing.
They stole my funds the first day before I could withdraw. I liked Atlantis. BMR is ok but no customers. SR is hands down the best because of DPR. I would follow DPR through the gates of hell and may have already.
Modzi
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Has anyone used Sheep Marketplace?
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Nicely done. I like the way you worded that.
Absolutely right about BTC supply disruptions being the Achilles heel. SR might want to consider adding other crypto currencies to the matrix.
Add the other crypto currency not real the solution. If SR add LC example where do you buy LC? Access for fiat currency to crypto currency is the true Achilles heal of it all.
The flash and coming out from underground did not feel smart from start.
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Has anyone used Sheep Marketplace?
We saw that awhile ago, signed up to look around. There is 3 or 4 more that are similar last we checked also. All seem like clones did not try and transactions.
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The flash and coming out from underground did not feel smart from start.
Seriously, what was that one thread "And Atlantis Rose from the Depths..." or something, and all of the other smack-talk (and phishing) on here? It's hard to tell who is / was on which team but annoying SR customers and forum members isn't the most effective way to get them to like your new brand.
Even their UI on their website was kinda clunky and illogical in some ways (not saying SR is perfect...).
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Just going to drop my 2mBTCs in here about this topic.
When Atlantis came on the scene, I immediately had a bad gut reaction to it. I couldn't justify it, but I never even went to the link. Then the stories of phishing scams came through, and I laughed, because I figured that'd happen at some point. The honeypot theories kept alive, so I raised my eyebrow and continued to stay away from the site. And now it's closing in less than a week.
I can't say I didn't see it coming, and am glad that I didn't put anything sensitive in, mainly because I cannot trust what their vague announcement is supposed to mean by reasons "beyond their control" in terms of the safety of buyer and vendor information.
I wish them all the best, the buyers, vendors and staff, all the same. Those with good intentions will hopefully find their way here/back here, and we can make this marketplace, our Silk Road, a better marketplace through this experience.
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Just going to drop my 2mBTCs in here about this topic.
When Atlantis came on the scene, I immediately had a bad gut reaction to it. I couldn't justify it, but I never even went to the link. Then the stories of phishing scams came through, and I laughed, because I figured that'd happen at some point. The honeypot theories kept alive, so I raised my eyebrow and continued to stay away from the site. And now it's closing in less than a week.
I can't say I didn't see it coming, and am glad that I didn't put anything sensitive in, mainly because I cannot trust what their vague announcement is supposed to mean by reasons "beyond their control" in terms of the safety of buyer and vendor information.
I wish them all the best, the buyers, vendors and staff, all the same. Those with good intentions will hopefully find their way here/back here, and we can make this marketplace, our Silk Road, a better marketplace through this experience.
Well Atlantis had a few features Silk Road didn't, but they weren't given a fair go.
Everyone assumed it was a LE run site. Competition is good remember.
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Sorry you had to shut down. A full briefing of the security issues after you have fully shut down would be nice.
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who wouda ever THUNK this woulda ever happened to the self promoted and exhaled ATLANTIS ?
byby - i shed no tears 4 u. sketchy from the get go.
if SR would ever adopt a auto encrypt i would know they r compromised - leave and never come back!
that would be the day the wheels fell off and the music died! ;;
long live SR!
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Atlantis forums have been taken down. Someone from atlantis tried to take their subreddit private then a mod came in and revoked their prividges and made it public again, reports of people unable to withdraw their btc are surfacing. Looks like they are going to go out in flames after all.
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Atlantis forums have been taken down. Someone from atlantis tried to take their subreddit private then a mod came in and revoked their prividges and made it public again, reports of people unable to withdraw their btc are surfacing. Looks like they are going to go out in flames after all.
It seems the main site is down at the moment as well, it returns the message "The page isn't redirecting properly". Typical if it's down already as I got lazy and thought they would honor their word of one week so I put off doing the remainder of the work in my thread Atlantis and Silk Road - Feature Differences: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=214138
If it comes up again after my post I'm looking for anyone with a Vendor Account on Atlantis willing to give me access for the sake of me seeing exactly how the Vendor Interface looks like etc.. I'm willing to pay 0.16 BTC as there's currently no other way of acquiring access as they removed the option to register for new Vendors ( I would have if possible ). Contact me through my other Silk Road Account in the event it comes up again: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/messages/send_message/bb9a215445
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Atlantis forums have been taken down. Someone from atlantis tried to take their subreddit private then a mod came in and revoked their prividges and made it public again, reports of people unable to withdraw their btc are surfacing. Looks like they are going to go out in flames after all.
it always was going to go down in flames i think.....
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Atlantis? More like Costa Concordia, headed up by the same captain. That's what showboating gets you. (Running out of puns).
Bank robberies don't happen that much anymore due to the fact that banks are much harder targets than they used to be (and they also don't carry as much cash anymore). One of the last successful bank robberies in my town happened a few years ago. It was an inside job - the perps knew that on the day of the robbery the bank would be carrying a six figure sum. The robbery started, the tellers activated the security screens, the robbers grabbed a customer and another staff member and threatened to shoot them if they didn't lower the screens. Of course the staff lowered the screens. The perps knew how long the safe time delays were and accounted for this. They knew police response time. Critically, they were completely covered in a one-piece black outfit. No skin whatsoever was showing. They all wore the same size shoes despite the fact that they were of different heights and likely had different shoe sizes, their shoe soles were filed down, the shoes were covered by the one-piece outfit anyway. They wore dark-tint strips of plastic taped over the eye holes of their one-piece outfits.
They got away with a quarter of a million and have never been caught. Why? Because they left LE absolutely nothing to go on. No revealing features, no distinctive hairline, no strategically-applied bandaid riding up during the action to reveal a partial tattoo, no shiny new K-mart store-brand trainers that one of the traumatised tellers noticed because they were the same kind she bought her son, no cheap sunglasses. These are the kinds of leads that result in arrests, and even professional crims inadvertently or accidentally provide them. The robbers I'm talking about didn't even speak. They were, in effect, ghosts. Four human-shaped black sacks of average height and build, nothing more could be said of them. No hair colours, complexions, accents, eye colours. They were in and out within four minutes carrying the cash in sturdy green reusable shopping bags that are available everywhere and millions of people use; the police arrived a minute later. The investigators had no suspects and few leads - a couple of stolen burnt out getaway cars which yielded nothing. Witnesses couldn't tell them anything they could go on. CCTV provided nothing of use. The mole wasn't caught, either. The bank closed that branch soon after.
SR, I think, runs like that bank job. It stays below the radar, thoroughly quarantining site operations from the trading floor. The SR admins are completely anonymous, like the bank robbers above. A cop could login to the site as a buyer, a cop could become a vendor. A cop vendor may even be able to bust those who buy from them, but that's about as good as it's going to get, and then that vendor's through. A lot of work would have gone into building that vendor. Nice work, officer; for hundreds of man hours and a bunch of cash you've caught a few recreational users who will most likely be cautioned or face community service (and if they don't say anything and have a good lawyer, they'll almost certainly walk). Undercover cop vendors can't get to other vendors, and they can't use the trading platform to harpoon the whale - they can't penetrate upstairs.
SR has a guerrilla approach, it would seem. This is the darkweb, and SR uses it well. DPR, or the people who created and manage the persona of DPR, surface briefly when necessary, then sink back into the oblivion. No flashy marketing bullshit outside the site. The less that's said and done, the less LE have to go on. No leads and the case is dead. It seems like this is the way SR runs. I hope appearances aren't misleading.
Of course there are peripheral weaknesses that could make the SR model untenable - disrupting the BTC supply, for example - but this will mean SR withers and dies. A shame, for sure. But its owners will walk away with jingling pockets instead of clinking shackles. If SR has to go down, that's how it should go down. But I reckon there's a pretty good chance SR will outlast the next Atlantis that rises and falls, and those after that.
I agree, I said in a recent post that SR creates an air gap or firebreak between supplier and buyer at whatever level, so that LE infiltrator will only be able to bust the level below them.
Also it's difficult to see how bitcoin can be disrupted. Short of buying them all up. Any attempt to control them would surely just make them more valuable, and exchanges would move to hidden services, or people would trade them peer to peer, and they could still be used as short term currency.
Even buying them all up would just lead to the release of Bitcoin 2.0, which all black market users would then adopt .
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Competition is good. But was Atlantis ever really competition?
If anything, Atlantis showed SR what to and what not to do.
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oh believe me, They are defientely other small blackmarket websites down here in the darkweb that are way much harder to reach and gain access to. I'm a member on one of those smaller market forums so trust me when I say that there's other less known blackmarket sites out there.
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Not sure if this has already been posted (if it has, I'll just remove), but it seems like in an interview with our very own Australian journo Eiley (from All Things Vice).. "Cicero" (mod of Atlantis) has confirmed that the admins have decided to 'take the money and run'.
*clearnet warning* http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/26/4773902/shuttered-underground-drug-market-atlantis-ran-off-with-customers-money
I, amongst many others, predicted a similar scenario months ago when Atlantis popped up. The Atlanis-is-LE theory always seemed a bit absurd.. but Atlantis being a long con, now that.. turned out true.
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I, amongst many others, predicted a similar scenario months ago when Atlantis popped up. The Atlanis-is-LE theory always seemed a bit absurd.. but Atlantis being a long con, now that.. turned out true.
Hmmm... It seems a little early to believe that it was a deliberate con prior to a couple of months ago. Cicero appears to think that the owners took the decision because the business wasn't returning the profits they expected.
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I, amongst many others, predicted a similar scenario months ago when Atlantis popped up. The Atlanis-is-LE theory always seemed a bit absurd.. but Atlantis being a long con, now that.. turned out true.
Hmmm... It seems a little early to believe that it was a deliberate con prior to a couple of months ago. Cicero appears to think that the owners took the decision because the business wasn't returning the profits they expected.
Yes, and that concurs with my impression from speaking with Loera and Vlad over several months. They definitely thought they would be more profitable by now, but with the figures that they released, they wouldn't have even been pulling a single salary yet, let alone salaries for five of them. They attracted the sellers but the buyers stayed away.
My personal opinion is I don't think it was a long con, just a failed business venture.
x Eiley
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Ah, good point there. I think accusing them of having planned a long con from the beginning is probably unfair (or atleast inaccurate). BUT, the fact that they apparently did hit the road with whatever funds were left in the accounts despite saying they were going to allow users to widthdraw their funds.. does lend itself towards the owner(s) being less then honest. At the very least it must have always been in the back of their mind "If we take on Silk Road, then awesome. If we fail, then fuck it.. the BTC/LTC in the wallets are ours for the taking". Can't ever imagine DPR and his administration EVER stooping to that level. Lord knows he's had (and continues to have) every opportunity, every single day, to close up shop and run off into the sunset with probably millions in the wallets. But he hasn't, and it seems like he really believes in this place and what he's created, therefore, even if Silk Road were to ever announce an orderly closing.. I can't imagine any scenario where DPR takes what isn't is.
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Wow sorta like an ending of an era. I remember the first time I logged and snubbed my nose to it.
Now I kinda regret not at least giving it a chance. :/
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Ah, good point there. I think accusing them of having planned a long con from the beginning is probably unfair (or atleast inaccurate). BUT, the fact that they apparently did hit the road with whatever funds were left in the accounts despite saying they were going to allow users to widthdraw their funds.. does lend itself towards the owner(s) being less then honest. At the very least it must have always been in the back of their mind "If we take on Silk Road, then awesome. If we fail, then fuck it.. the BTC/LTC in the wallets are ours for the taking". Can't ever imagine DPR and his administration EVER stooping to that level. Lord knows he's had (and continues to have) every opportunity, every single day, to close up shop and run off into the sunset with probably millions in the wallets. But he hasn't, and it seems like he really believes in this place and what he's created, therefore, even if Silk Road were to ever announce an orderly closing.. I can't imagine any scenario where DPR takes what isn't is.
They've already failed their promise of keeping the site up for a week, and unless it comes back soon with the withdrawal option returned they will forever be known as scammers regardless of what they intended. The only person involved in all of this from what I've seen which seems to come off clean is Cicero who's been mostly moderating the Atlantis Forums.
It would have been interesting if they had decided to release their Source Code in full similar to how The Pirate Bay did a long time ago, unfortunately it seems they won't and they also won't say a word why they did what they did.
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Ah, good point there. I think accusing them of having planned a long con from the beginning is probably unfair (or atleast inaccurate). BUT, the fact that they apparently did hit the road with whatever funds were left in the accounts despite saying they were going to allow users to widthdraw their funds.. does lend itself towards the owner(s) being less then honest. At the very least it must have always been in the back of their mind "If we take on Silk Road, then awesome. If we fail, then fuck it.. the BTC/LTC in the wallets are ours for the taking". Can't ever imagine DPR and his administration EVER stooping to that level. Lord knows he's had (and continues to have) every opportunity, every single day, to close up shop and run off into the sunset with probably millions in the wallets. But he hasn't, and it seems like he really believes in this place and what he's created, therefore, even if Silk Road were to ever announce an orderly closing.. I can't imagine any scenario where DPR takes what isn't is.
They've already failed their promise of keeping the site up for a week, and unless it comes back soon with the withdrawal option returned they will forever be known as scammers regardless of what they intended. The only person involved in all of this from what I've seen which seems to come off clean is Cicero who's been mostly moderating the Atlantis Forums.
It would have been interesting if they had decided to release their Source Code in full similar to how The Pirate Bay did a long time ago, unfortunately it seems they won't and they also won't say a word why they did what they did.
+1. Whether it was a premeditated scam or a scam that was born from low revenue.. that's irrelevant to me. The end result is the same. They took off with people money. No sympathy here from me (and I'm assuming many others). They had "it in them" the whole time to runoff with the money. Different from the long-con, but perhaps my choice of words were poor. "Predisposed scammers" would me more appropriate.
The bittersweet component to this entire debacle is that IF another black market such as SR or Atlantis does pop up, people will NEVER trust it. Not after seeing how Atlantis went down. This shores of Silk Road's "stock price" if you will, which of course is good for DPR and the admins and even us community here. But like DPR said, competition is healthy and more black markets are a sign of a thriving free-market mindset. The irony is, nobody will ever "experiment" with another Atlantis like market again.
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Indeed, whatever the full story it seems obvious that the founders of Atlantis were, and are, a bunch of unprincipled money-grabbing bastards.
I hope this doesn't stifle the creation of other markets too much, though. I do think that a little competition in this area is good for everyone, for many reasons, and I'd be a little concerned if SR were the only game in town.
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BMR is a great site. Sheep Market Place is slow getting started, but that will pick up i'm sure.
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BMR is a great site.
BMR staff ratted out one of their vendors. They are scum:
"Multiple Black Market Reloaded sources, including staff, said that Grass4Cash is the same man behind the demonfifa account, which dealt in an entirely different criminal spectrum: stolen credit cards, stolen identities, hacked Paypal accounts, fake IDs, marijuana, mushrooms, and silver bullion. In the last year, demonfifa has made almost 1,000 of these types of sales; at the time of Bunger’s arrest, the account was making about 100 total sales per month."
http://www.dailydot.com/crime/dark-web-black-market-reloaded-adam-bunger-gun-sales-arrest/
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BMR staff ratted out one of their vendors. They are scum:
Hmmm... I wouldn't want to leap to any conclusions but that certainly raises questions over why BMR 'staff' are apparently providing user information to this Patrick O'Neill bloke.
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BMR staff ratted out one of their vendors. They are scum:
Hmmm... I wouldn't want to leap to any conclusions but that certainly raises questions over why BMR 'staff' are apparently providing user information to this Patrick O'Neill bloke.
Yeah a 'BMR source' could literally be anyone. That in no way implies BMR staff said anything about their vendors.
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The article states three times that people linking demonfifa and Grass4Cash include "staff" or "a BMR staffer". Of course, there is often a massive discrepancy between facts and what is published by the press.