Silk Road forums
Support => Customer support => Topic started by: peuiwtf85r2 on September 18, 2013, 06:18 pm
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I have already broken several things in my house out of pure rage. I'm not quite sure what the fuck to do.
This is a follow up from a previous thread I made. I bought 14 grams from vendor 'OzGrow' last thursday. No package arrived. Messaged tuesday, turns out it was delivered, but to the wrong suburb (it was delivered to [REDACTED], I live in [REDACTED], so the proximity lead them to think I was doing the "oh no it didn't come, please send me more). They have claimed this was no way their fault. I don't know about that but what I do know is that I gave them my address, and drugs were delivered to a different address. Beware when buying from them, their mailing system is fucked.
After back and forth PM's, OzGrow realizes this isn't the first time people haven't gotten their package on the SR, decides to trust me, we agree to a 50% refund. Max (one half of the team gave me the following instructions:
"Go to your purchases....
Next to this purchase.....
Click "Never Arrived".....
I'm not sure what happens next, but follow the prompts."
I did not understand, and I could not find the option he gave me (I still don't actually know where to find what he was talking about). So I finalized the order, thinking I could then go to "my purchases" and it would be there, where I could give a new address. My thinking was that if this is an option for orders which were placed a while ago, it could be accessed from a point after finalizing. The irony of this is that I finalized because I thought that since OzGrow was a good vendor, I wouldn't have any problem with releasing my money to him on a trust basis. Haha, so much for that :/ From here, I was accused of trying to profit from the exchange rate. Apparently, OzGrow thinks that even if I was a scammer, after I busted my balls, get THAT close to getting free weed and then put the entire thing in jeopardy over the 17 cents I would gain from the exchange rate. Obviously, even a scammer wouldn't do this.
OzGrow sent the following message in response to my informing them of what I had done:
"Well, I'm not sure what the options are now.
You mention you are an experienced SR buyer, so I can not help wonder why you would make such a huge blunder.
There are 2 buttons.... one says "Finalize", and the other doesn't.
Despite very clear instructions, you have finalized.
This is a clear attempt at protecting your refund rate.
This is a deal breaker as far as I am concerned.
I have been fair and reasonable, beyond the "call of duty".
This is what I will now do.... I will invest even more time into what I always considered a dodgie claim.
I am now 100% convinced that there is something fishie going on here.
* I will open a case with SR admin, explaining the whole situation in point form, and supply a copy of all of our correspondence for their consideration on the matter.
- I will treat their neutral, third party decision with the utmost respect, and consider it to be the final decision to be made in this case.
- I will have to await their reply before I can do anything.
- Please note: Typical time delays for SR Admin replies generally take more than 24hours, for each message sent.
- We will see what conclusions they make.
* I will also share this information on the "Vendors Round Table".
Not necessarily on the Black List, but a caution in the very least. I think about 95% of Vendors keep themselves up to date with this info.
I will monitor any reply's of suggestion on the matter.
* I will be sending private mail to every Australian Marijuana Vendor, to inform them personally of the matter at hand.
Please understand, the relationships between Aussie Vendors is actually one of mutual respect.
These valuable friendships have saved us all losses. Basically, we have each others backs.
It is common place for these sorts of notices to be shared around.
* I will also add the above to the thread you created on the matter.
I think it fair for the general public to hear both sides of the story.
* I will monitor my feedback, and defend any negative comments with unparallelled commitment.
Not that one 1/5 would even blemish my perfect record anyway, but it's principal.
Should the above take place, I will generate posts on my profile, discussion boards, forums.... and anywhere else I think of,
eluding to the true nature of any such complaints.
Thank you again for your purchase.
Any future orders you place with me will be cancelled.
I will keep you up to date with everything as it happens (As will SR Admin).
Best regards,
Max@OG"
I really don't know how this looks. If I look guilty as shit, then there you go. To me, I was close to reaching a deal for HALF of my order after I had paid in full, which I placed a week ago, and was even willing to forgo the fact that OzGrow fucked up and sent my order to the incorrect house. With my name on it. I repeat, this jackass sent drugs to someone elses house with my name printed on the front of it.
If 50 far fetched coincidences lined up and I look like a scammer, so be it. But I really can't see what the issue is. I honestly cannot. From my perspective, I have been a fair and patient person with an idiot who fucked up my order, took $200 from me and had the balls to say I was trying to fuck HIM over. I really hope this comes through to the mods who comb through the order.
TBH, even if the mods and community take my side, or at least a neutral position, this entire ordeal has soured my experience with the Silk Road. I have lost $200 to even the most reputable of vendors, have no weed and have my life on the Silk Road on the line. Over something I had no control over (again, I gave them money and my address. Theres nothing more I could have done. And yet here I am).
Whatever your opinions are of this situation, just put yourself in the shoes of someone who is the the exact situation I have laid out, and think about how you would feel. Being wrongfully labeled a scammer after having $200 stolen. By the person who has the $200.
There you go. I can't type anymore, too fucking angry.
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Ok firstly I just redacted your post to remove where you live, not a good idea to be posting identifiable information especially when you have half an ounce of weed MIA.
Secondly there is no option to click on "never arrived" unless there have been some updates I'm not aware of, I have no idea why you were instructed to do that on SR if that is what actually happened.
Thirdly you have now finalized the order so you are on your own as far as getting assistance from SR admins is concerned, your only recourse is with the vendor.
What you should have done is taken the order into resolution and stated your claim there, you claim the tracking showed being delivered in a different suburb but they are close to each other, are you 100% sure tracking for where you live shows up as the suburb you think it should? reason I ask is I know of locations that effectively span 2 suburbs as far as the mail system is concerned and either suburb can come up for an address in that area.
If that isn't an issue and there is no way there could be any overlap in the suburb location showing on the tracking then that should have been all the proof you needed to evidence something went wrong.
Unfortunately given the order is now finalized there is little you can do I'm afraid, chalk this one up to a bad experience and move on.
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Thanks for redacting my post. I posted it last night in a very irate mood, so I wasn't really thinking straight.
Its weird that you say there is no option. Why would this person give me these instructions?
Also, from what you have read, do you think admin/mods would have taken my side for 50%? OzGrow has posted in the vendor forum, and is messaging other aussie vendors to have me blacklisted. When they see his mistake, do you think they will point it out?
Do you think I have acted in a scammy, dodgy manner? The reason I ask is that although it has been finalized, OzGrow said he will listen to the counsel of the community and mods on what he should do (give me money, weed or nothing at all). I really just want them to do the right thing and set it all straight.
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Also, I'm still waiting to see what comes of this thread http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=211850.0
The timing of the arrival of his package lines up with when OzGrow says that 'my' one did. Also he describes a very similar situation as OzGrow, disappearing roughly at the same time.
Again, I know admin can no longer make an absolute ruling, but OzGrow HAS said they will listen to the opinion of the community and admin as far as whether or not to refund or resend. If it is your personal opinion, not ruling, opinion, I believe OzGrow still has enough honor to make this right.
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Update. OzGrow has been informed that he doesn't actually have to refund me now that I have released the funds to them, and are basically rescinding their previous offer of fairness.
" Here is the reply from "Vendor Support".
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SR Support 0.0
I'm sorry but we simply don't have the time to read through all of that; from the summary provided, however, you state that the buyer has already finalized. The transaction has been completed and you are completely within your rights to ignore him from here on out if you wish.
If he had an issue with the order then he would have had to address that in the Resolution Center.
~Vendor Support
7 hours read delete
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As previously mentioned, I consider this decision to be final.
Please keep in mind, you paid for a secure delivery option that is covered by a Global Insurance policy.
If you walk into your local Post Office, You will be able to make a claim on your lost package.
Australia Post accepts liability up to $500 for these 500gram express post bags.
You have been issued your tracking number, but here it is again.
********************
I consider this matter now closed.
Regards,
Max@OG"
Truly the most fucked up experience on the Silk Road.
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In the interest of fairness and to protect my good name, I here-by submit the whole conversation for anyone that may actually be interested.
There are multiple factors that have led to my decision. A decision backed by SR Admin.
I have proved my credentials time and time again.
NEVER has this happened before. We have NEVER lost a parcel.
Note the following
* Request of additional listing set at 0.01BTC (To further buffer stats)
* Clear attempts to avoid using "Resolution Center" (To avoid refund rate)
* Parcel delivered within kilometers of his address. (1.5km)
* "Experienced" user making dramatic "errors" (Finalizing)
* Address confirmed as correct as supplied
**Begin at Bottom**
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peuiwtf85r23
Wow. That was a very quick turn around over what was a very honest mistake. For the record, had you have just told me that you were jipped (I didn't even know it would have effected you) I would have gladly sent you the BTC. You have lost a very long term customer.
You've made it clear that you will not listen to me, so I suppose all I have left now is to start my own thread with my own side. I will encourage mods to go through the PM's as well.
For the record, I have given you $200, and you have given me nothing in return, and are now labeling me a scammer because of one action. Up until now we had been quite communicative and understanding, that is why this is so shocking.
Good luck with this I suppose,
Peace
1 hour read delete
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OzGrow 5.0
Well, I'm not sure what the options are now.
You mention you are an experienced SR buyer, so I can not help wonder why you would make such a huge blunder.
There are 2 buttons.... one says "Finalize", and the other doesn't.
Despite very clear instructions, you have finalized.
This is a clear attempt at protecting your refund rate.
This is a deal breaker as far as I am concerned.
I have been fair and reasonable, beyond the "call of duty".
This is what I will now do.... I will invest even more time into what I always considered a dodgie claim.
I am now 100% convinced that there is something fishie going on here.
* I will open a case with SR admin, explaining the whole situation in point form, and supply a copy of all of our correspondence for their consideration on the matter.
- I will treat their neutral, third party decision with the utmost respect, and consider it to be the final decision to be made in this case.
- I will have to await their reply before I can do anything.
- Please note: Typical time delays for SR Admin replies generally take more than 24hours, for each message sent.
- We will see what conclusions they make.
* I will also share this information on the "Vendors Round Table".
Not necessarily on the Black List, but a caution in the very least. I think about 95% of Vendors keep themselves up to date with this info.
I will monitor any reply's of suggestion on the matter.
* I will be sending private mail to every Australian Marijuana Vendor, to inform them personally of the matter at hand.
Please understand, the relationships between Aussie Vendors is actually one of mutual respect.
These valuable friendships have saved us all losses. Basically, we have each others backs.
It is common place for these sorts of notices to be shared around.
* I will also add the above to the thread you created on the matter.
I think it fair for the general public to hear both sides of the story.
* I will monitor my feedback, and defend any negative comments with unparallelled commitment.
Not that one 1/5 would even blemish my perfect record anyway, but it's principal.
Should the above take place, I will generate posts on my profile, discussion boards, forums.... and anywhere else I think of,
eluding to the true nature of any such complaints.
Thank you again for your purchase.
Any future orders you place with me will be cancelled.
I will keep you up to date with everything as it happens (As will SR Admin).
Best regards,
Max@OG
2 hours read delete
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peuiwtf85r23
I think I've made a mistake. I couldn't find what you were talking about. I went through my orders (next to the messages tab at the top) and it didn't have an option to click "never arrived". I finalized thinking it would give me an option, but it hasn't. Where do I find this option, and is that option no longer an option now that its finalized?
11 hours read delete
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OzGrow 5.0
Go to your purchases....
Next to this purchase.....
Click "Never Arrived".....
I'm not sure what happens next, but follow the prompts.
I will then be sent an automated email to accept/deny your claim.
I will accept 50%.
Then you will be prompted to re-issue address.
Failing the last step, simply send it to me.
Our PGP key is available on our vendor profile page, should you wish to encrypt this information.
Your address will then be copied and pasted again, exactly as you advise.
In the event this package finds a similar fate, we will never do business again.
Please insure your address in 100% correct.
Regards,
Max@OG
12 hours read delete
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peuiwtf85r23
No problem. How do I reissue my address?
12 hours read delete
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OzGrow 5.0
Please re-issue your address and I will re-send 50%
There will be no need for further listings as you will need to use the "Resolution Center".
Open a case and I will accept 50/50 with out delay.
It is a very straight forward process.
I believe you will be given an option to re-issue your address.
If not, feel free to encrypt and re-issue.
Thanks,
Max@OG
12 hours read delete
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peuiwtf85r23
Max,
I have thought it over, and I believe it is reasonable for there to be a 50% refund here rather than 100%. The way I initially thought about it was that you were accepting the risks of AusPost to get your wares to your customers, but this is the first time I have considered the fact that I too am taking an equal (calculated) gamble on AusPost. I think the customer should be liable for those risks too.
50/50 is fair in my opinion.
From here, do I send you my address via PM? What you could do (I think) is set up a custom order/page for 7 grams at 0.01 btc and I can finalize this order?
19 hours read delete
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OzGrow 5.0
Ok..... all-in-all......
I suppose it's not the end of the world... I mean, this is the first package that has been lost to date.
I am absolutely convinced, without a speck of hesitation or doubt, that your package was address EXACTLY as you specified.
So, that only leaves 48.3 million other possibilities.... anything could have happened.
I understand that you would like a full resend, because after all, you were not at fault, right.
However, I must stand fast on my assurance that no error was made on our part either.
Both above statements are something we have already agreed on.
So, would it not be fair to share the burden of the situation?
You mention other vendors policies..... I have never needed such insurance policies for my customers.
Uncountable vendors globally specify that a 50/50 resolve will be met in such situations.
Although I could not give a hoot what other vendors do, I do agree with a fair and reasonable share of risk.
There is risks involved when you buy anything... particularly online... and especially when buying drugs online.
I feel it is very unreasonable of you (under these particular circumstances) to expect a 100% refund of resend.
Even of you are basing this on a recent sale price.
I believe a much more fair outcome for both parties, is a 50/50 share of risk, and hence loss.
Therefor, you should receive 50% of your order, either re-sent, or refund of total finalization amount.
As someone suggested in response to the thread you created,
I have proved myself to be a fair and reliable vendor in the eyes on my other customers and SR staff, whom I have worked closely with for over 6 months now.
Under these circumstances, I feel they would again find my offer very fair and reasonable.
Let me know mate, and I can have it in the post, or your account tomorrow.
Regards,
Max@OG
1 day read delete
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peuiwtf85r23
Is 'CL' the initials of the name I provided? Those are the initials. I do wonder though which address the postey delivered it to. As far as I know, there is no street with the same name as mine in dural (a google maps search brings up nothing).
Regardless, it is very honorable of you guys to step forward. This will be heavily noted and emphasized in feedback.
1 day read delete
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OzGrow 5.0
I have "CL" logged against your tracking number.
If this is not correct, the error is mine/ours.
If this IS correct, then no error was made on our part.
Our labels are all copied and pasted as supplied.
If these are the correct initials, then we only have Australia post to blame.
Don't worry, I will come to the party and cop this on the chin.
But, please understand my desire to figure out exactly what happened in this case.
Cheers,
Max
1 day read delete
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OzGrow 5.0
Could you answer me this... before we proceed.
Could you tell me the initials you used for the label?
Not the name you will use next time, but the initials you used for this purchase.
1 day read delete
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OzGrow 5.0
Very well worded..... and thank you for remaining calm.
This is actually very reassuring for me.
I feel you see my side, and I can indeed see yours.
Your right about trust etc.... nature of the business and platform etc.
Your name..... ever since your first order, Maxine and I have refereed to you as "pewdiepie". (Our teens youtube that Dick all the time).
Lots of tricks to remember all these screen-names.
I only mention this to illustrate we are very familiar with your name... a well noticed and VALUED return customer.
In answer to your question about records.....
We keep no records at all..... I do not want to ever have to explain addresses, names etc to LE... in worst case.
Once we (vendors) accept your order, the info is gone.... for good.
SR would not keep these records either.
I can look through my account history.... and find transaction numbers, screen names and final value - but nothing else.
It is very tedious to do this.
Anyway... my point is, we "know" you... as one of our customers.
If you really are not up to any funny business.... then I'm here to help.
At the end of the day.... sh!t happens right?
I guess it's how we deal with it that really matters.
I am a genuinely fair and reasonable man.
And from your calm, polite reply, I suspect you are as well.
Now, how shall we sort it mate?
But, I must just say this for the record......
I really hope you aren't trying to rip us off.
We are good, kind people...... we are not rich..... and all losses hurt.
It is why we are so damn careful in the first place. We simply can not afford for parcels to go missing.... and this IS the first one.
BUT, there is always a first time!!
Chat soon,
Max
PS..... I will check out the thread... but it will have to be later.
1 day read delete
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Good Morning Peuiwtf,
I think we have an issue here I'm afraid.
We have a finely tuned structure to insure addresses are not mixed up.
In fact, each parcel is addressed with not one, but two addresses. (One internal, one external).
This results in a "Fool-Proof" dispatch system.
To date, we have not mis-sent a single parcel.
We take the greatest precautions with the information you supplied.
I have checked each and every tracking number I have outstanding.
There are no issues with any other parcel sent.
We intentionally process one order at a time.
Not moving on to the next order, until the previous one is all done.
Again, this removes potential mix-ups.
It must be said, that upon investigation,
I find it extremely alarming that D****l is actually very close geographically to your location.
It is actually ASTONISHING that out of the whole land-mass that is Australia, it was delivered so close to you.
It must be said, I suspect you know the location of your parcel.
***Was my name on it if you sent it to D****l ***
I don't know your name, so how can I answer this?
But, I can say without doubt, the name you that supplied is very clearly on it.... in two places.... as you know from your previous order.
I'm sorry.... but I smell a rat.
If it had landed in some random location, or simply vanished, I would not hesitate in re-sending in full, and without delay.
But the fact that it is within a few kilometers of you, is hard for me to swallow.
We are not here to rip people off.... never have, never will.
Open to your suggestions on the matter,
Max@OG
1 day read delete
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OzGrow 5.0
Hi P,
Have just checked the status of your package. This is a cut and paste from the Aus Post page regarding your item.
Date/Time Activity Location
16/09/13 17:00
Delivered
D****L NSW
So as you can see they are saying your item was delivered at 5pm today. Is there anyone else who could of taken delivery of it at your house?.
Regards
Maxine
2 days read delete
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I'm glad the entire conversation is here now. I was going to do it but didn't have the time atm to comb through and redact things.
Lets me address these points,
* Request of additional listing set at 0.01BTC (To further buffer stats)
-Buffer stats? As in another listing? Are you fucking kidding? Why would I try and get one more? I already have 11 and had a great relationship with you and other vendors
* Clear attempts to avoid using "Resolution Center" (To avoid refund rate)
-I didn't try to avoid it, I was happy to but know that that only becomes available after 10 days. I wanted my weed now, not on monday. Can you please explain why you gave me information which has been confirmed to be incorrect, Ozgrow? YOU told me to resubmit my address through a fictional option, YOU tried to avoid using the resolution center as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps to protect your "good name"?
* Parcel delivered within kilometers of his address. (1.5km)
-Coincidence, ass hole. 4.5 million people live in this city. I can't help where the posty fucks it up/you put the wrong address on
* "Experienced" user making dramatic "errors" (Finalizing)
-I have told people that while I am not a novice here, I do make errors. I still don't know how PGP works for example. I finalized because I thought that it wouldn't matter, since you weren't going to run off with my money. How. Fucking. Hilarious. But besides that, I actually didn't make a mistake when I did it. I did it on purpose believing that the worst case scenario would be that you would laugh and accept the address via email.
* Address confirmed as correct as supplied
-how have you confirmed this? You don't even know what my address is, so how the fuck can you confirm it? I asked you to confirm that you had sent it to the correct address, and you said basically "umm well idk we are really good at doing this, no failures yet!!
Max/Maxine, the fact that you have never had anything go wrong or any packages go missing is amazing. ALL of the top guys do, even if its 99.9%, there will always be the 0.1%. I am that 0.1%.
And please cut this bullshit about how you listened to admins advice. They have only told you that you don't HAVE to, they haven't given an opinion on whether or not this is a scam. You indicated you would listen to their advice on whether or not I was guilty. You knew they would say you didn't have to, so why bother? An attempt to seem fair while fleecing me of 100%?
I have done nothing wrong, you've acted like a cunt. 50% refund is standard, and packages get delivered to the wrong house sometimes, I wouldn't be surprised if they were all within 1.5 km of the real address.
You owe me $200 or 14 grams of weed, I only hope that others see the light of day and tell you what a colossal fuckwit you've been.
Again, the huge irony is that I genuinely didn't know my action of finalizing was an issue, and I only did it because I believed it wouldn't matter since you're fair, and worse comes to worse I could just sent my address via PM.
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". A decision backed by SR Admin."
The SR admin backed your RIGHT to not have to refund me. They have so far given no indication on which way they lean on this had I have not finalized. You're using a technicality to avoid refunding me because you're a scamming piece of shit. In fact, the only feedback we have on the situation is from 'samesamebutdifferent', who has actually said that the way you told me to resolve it wasn't recommended and actually never existed in the first place.
You're a piece of shit as far as I'm concerned, OzGrow. You know that I have done nothing wrong other than an honest mistake, in fact I offered to send you the 12 cents to calm your arse down. You're using the fact that by the rules you don't have to make this right. I believe you're consciously scamming me of my money. You have $200 of my money and I have received nothing in return for it. Your actions in this case are detrimental to the entire SR community. Fix your mailing system before you
a) get someone caught and
b) lose more customers by overreacting and jumping to conclusions like a bleeding cunt
In your first message back to me you didn't even consider the possibility that shit got fucked up. You put me in the scammer box from the get go and have been determined to save yourself as much money that you can. And in trusting you by releasing $200 on a faith basis, I allowed you to do so.
I intend to continue to be part of the community and form strong relationships with the decent vendors here. Perhaps when I've been around here long enough and am respected enough that you will offer a full apology for the way you've handled this.
Again, so no one is confused, if you buy from OzGrow and the package goes missing, you will get no rebate and possibly blacklisted.