Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Bluto on September 17, 2013, 11:44 am
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Say you make an order; it's a small order and you are not that worried about the amount of money that it costs.
The vendor says that they shipped it.
2 weeks later it still hasn't arrived and you get a letter from SR saying that your order will be auto-finalized.
So you go to the buyers guide and do a little search.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=auto-finalize&fulltext=Search
3 references that don't tell you anything about "auto-finalize" except that:
IT REFLECTS BADLY ON THE BUYER.
So you email the Vendor. He seems like a nice guy. He says that he shipped it. He even gave you extra. Just wait, it will come.
The problem is that it you BELIEVE HIM. You even like him; (perhaps you make an offhanded remark about marrying his sister -which is neither here nor there.)
In my case, I didn't do anything. I acted IN GOOD FAITH thinking that the order was going to arrive.
THE ORDER NEVER ARRIVES. The order "Auto-Finalized" and you're out the small amount of bitcoin that it cost.
So I was RIPPED OFF. Which is just great. But here's what really burns me: MY STATS ARE NOW BAD BECAUSE OF THE AUTO-FINALIZE.
Just to repeat: 1) I acted in good faith 2) I got burned and 3) My stats are worse now for it.
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Say you make an order; it's a small order and you are not that worried about the amount of money that it costs.
The vendor says that they shipped it.
2 weeks later it still hasn't arrived and you get a letter from SR saying that your order will be auto-finalized.
So you go to the buyers guide and do a little search.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=auto-finalize&fulltext=Search
3 references that don't tell you anything about "auto-finalize" except that:
IT REFLECTS BADLY ON THE BUYER.
So you email the Vendor. He seems like a nice guy. He says that he shipped it. He even gave you extra. Just wait, it will come.
The problem is that it you BELIEVE HIM. You even like him; (perhaps you make an offhanded remark about marrying his sister -which is neither here nor there.)
In my case, I didn't do anything. I acted IN GOOD FAITH thinking that the order was going to arrive.
THE ORDER NEVER ARRIVES. The order "Auto-Finalized" and you're out the small amount of bitcoin that it cost.
So I was RIPPED OFF. Which is just great. But here's what really burns me: MY STATS ARE NOW BAD BECAUSE OF THE AUTO-FINALIZE.
Just to repeat: 1) I acted in good faith 2) I got burned and 3) My stats are worse now for it.
Mate, all that can be easily avoided by using the Resolution Center to initially pull the time frame of your order out before it reaches 17 days (usually after 10 days pass and you receive the SR generic email). If after a month it still hasn't arrived, submit another proposal to the vendor in question, prior to the most recent proposal lapses of course, for either a full or partial refund. If you can't agree on a resolution, an Admin will decide for you based on the evidence provided and your stats.
There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever for anyone to let an order auto-finalize.
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Mate, all that can be easily avoided by using the Resolution Center to initially pull the time frame of your order out before it reaches 17 days (usually after 10 days pass and you receive the SR generic email). If after a month it still hasn't arrived, submit another proposal to the vendor in question, prior to the most recent proposal lapses of course, for either a full or partial refund. If you can't agree on a resolution, an Admin will decide for you based on the evidence provided and your stats.
There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever for anyone to let an order auto-finalize.
So why isn't this in the Buyer's Guide?
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You should read the SR wiki in its entirety, everything is covered in detail.
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You should read the SR wiki in its entirety, everything is covered in detail.
Says you. Could you please provide a link to my particular instance being covered?
If you are going to link to "resolution". The concept is not IN GOOD FAITH with regards to the VENDOR.
That is: if you believe the vendor is acting in Bad Faith -then resolution makes sense. If you are just waiting for your order (and believe it's coming) then denying the vendor his money is kind of a dick move. To put that in SR Moderator terms: it is possible for a Vendor to persuade a buyer to "just wait -it'll come". By going into resolution you are implying that the vendor is lying. If it is a small amount of money (let's say hypothetically $40) -then a normal person could be persuaded to wait another couple of days. My issue in this case IS NOT THE MONEY. It's reputation.
I got ripped off, and now SR is charging my reputation.
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Frequently_Asked_Questions#My_order_hasn.27t_arrived_or_it.27s_not_what_I_expected.
Nothing you order is GUARANTEED to arrive. It's a risk to buy an illegal product and have it sent via the Post. Sometimes things will go missing, that's the nature of this business.
As ssbd has stated, there are processes in place, which are outlined in the SR Wiki, for a buyer (and vendor) to follow in order to minimize their risk and maximize their chances of a successful delivery. With a reputable vendor, I believe that if a package doesn't arrive, a fair resolution is a 50/50 split.
If you're a regular customer, some vendor's may offer you more or a re-ship to a different addresses but that's between you and the vendor to sort out in the RC.
It's not possible for any vendor to make you do anything. You always have a choice and what ever that may be, you are responsible for that decision. A vendor can tell you anything but you need to approach things in a polite and practical way and choose your vendors very carefully.
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Frequently_Asked_Questions#My_order_hasn.27t_arrived_or_it.27s_not_what_I_expected.
Nothing you order is GUARANTEED to arrive. It's a risk to buy an illegal product and have it sent via the Post. Sometimes things will go missing, that's the nature of this business.
As ssbd has stated, there are processes in place, which are outlined in the SR Wiki, for a buyer (and vendor) to follow in order to minimize their risk and maximize their chances of a successful delivery. With a reputable vendor, I believe that if a package doesn't arrive, a fair resolution is a 50/50 split.
If you're a regular customer, some vendor's may offer you more or a re-ship to a different addresses but that's between you and the vendor to sort out in the RC.
It's not possible for any vendor to make you do anything. You always have a choice and what ever that may be, you are responsible for that decision. A vendor can tell you anything but you need to approach things in a polite and practical way and choose your vendors very carefully.
I don't know if you are fully understanding my post or perhaps I am not expressing myself correctly.
I can drop $40 at a bar in a few hours no problem. The money and even getting the product is not my issue. I paid and acted in good faith.
It's the buyer stats that I have an issue with. I am being punished for acting in good faith.
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Ask SR support to look into it. They have the ability to "correct" your stats. The mods here can't do anything about your SR account, only what concerns your forum account.
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Extending the time allowed before auto-finalize a few days, is not implying that the vendor is lying. You could have easily asked for a 3 day extension and continued to wait for your product. The resolution center is there to help you and the vendor.
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The resolution center could have saved you a lot of grief here. You taking the order to resolution does NOT automatically mean you are implying the vendor is doing something wrong. When you take an order to the resolution center, there is an option to extend the auto-finalization date or request a refund. I have had an order extended in resolution for over a month so it wouldn't auto-finalize (ended up getting ripped off, he never sent anything, but that's neither here nor there.)
You can request to extend the AF date for up to 10 days. When and if that 10 days is almost up and you still haven't received anything, you can ask to extend it again. And again. All that means is you are still waiting for your order. I am sorry you weren't aware of this beforehand. When I had to do this, it was my very first order - I messaged the vendor that I still hadn't received anything and that the last thing I wanted was an auto-finalize on my stats, he directed me to the resolution center for an extension. It is a shame you were unaware of this. I would message SR Support and tell them that. They may scrub the auto-finalize from your stats, but they may just say you should've done your research. It's still worth a shot. Good luck.
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There is nothing "bad faith" about opening a resolution. It is a place to extend escrow and work our a common agreement between buyer and seller. If you can work something out then that is what will happen, if you disagree then the staff will make a descision.
I NEVER resent a buyer going to resolution, it is part of the escrow system we both agreed to.
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Thanks all round.
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You should read the SR wiki in its entirety, everything is covered in detail.
Says you. Could you please provide a link to my particular instance being covered?
If you are going to link to "resolution". The concept is not IN GOOD FAITH with regards to the VENDOR.
That is: if you believe the vendor is acting in Bad Faith -then resolution makes sense. If you are just waiting for your order (and believe it's coming) then denying the vendor his money is kind of a dick move. To put that in SR Moderator terms: it is possible for a Vendor to persuade a buyer to "just wait -it'll come". By going into resolution you are implying that the vendor is lying. If it is a small amount of money (let's say hypothetically $40) -then a normal person could be persuaded to wait another couple of days. My issue in this case IS NOT THE MONEY. It's reputation.
I got ripped off, and now SR is charging my reputation.
This has probably already now been covered in subsequent posts but in response to your post above, you have 17 days from the time an order is confirmed and marked as 'in transit' to finalize that order. If you take no action within the 17 days the order will as you now know auto finalize. After 9 days however the resolution center becomes available to you, something you clearly were not aware of, in fact just clicking on 'resolve' extends the finalization period by 5 days and once in the resolution center the order will no longer auto finalize.
All of this is covered in the SR wiki and it is ultimately your responsibility to avail yourself of the facts. Personally I move all orders into resolution when they are getting close to the 17 day mark, just post a polite proposal requesting an extension to allow for shipping times, something that I think is I think common practice for most people using SR.
Your stats will repair over time as you make more successful transactions, at least you now know how the system works.
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Out of over 400 packages shipped I have only ever had 5 people express issues with their order. Four of the five contacted me right away and I resolved all 4. The fifth guy waited until almost auto-finalize to dispute the order asking for %100 refund without stating the reason why or even contacting me in any way. Guess who didn't get a %100 refund or have his order resolved? Most vendors are not dicks and will go above and beyond to placate you, but it starts with actually communicating with them. If we don't even know there is an issue how the heck are we suppose to resolve it? Your case required simply extending the auto-finalize date while communicating with the vendor which is exactly what my 5th customer should have done.
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Out of over 400 packages shipped I have only ever had 5 people express issues with their order. Four of the five contacted me right away and I resolved all 4. The fifth guy waited until almost auto-finalize to dispute the order asking for %100 refund without stating the reason why or even contacting me in any way. Guess who didn't get a %100 refund or have his order resolved? Most vendors are not dicks and will go above and beyond to placate you, but it starts with actually communicating with them. If we don't even know there is an issue how the heck are we suppose to resolve it? Your case required simply extending the auto-finalize date while communicating with the vendor which is exactly what my 5th customer should have done.
Exactly. +1 MrMDA. I will never understand why people don't educate themselves (even just the basics to begin with) on how things work prior to placing an order. I'm sorry but some people don't seem to comprehend the potential dangers involved when you don't take the necessary precautions and minimize all your risks. There's a lot to learn but the dangling carrot can be hard to resist for some.
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Very good read.
Getting a full refund from a vendor hurts your stats as well, especially if you are new. I would advise buyer's to have multiple accounts, in case a situation bags you.
Case in point, you make a bunch of small orders, then place a large one. The vendor clearly is not responding, people are not getting product. You get a full refund. You will be explaining your stats to every vendor you buy from, from then on, until the numbers balance out.
We must be vigilante. When new choose carefully, and start small.
On the other hand, an experienced buyers with many purchases carries a larger weighting factor on the vendor's stats. Get a few long term buyers together, to edit the bad vendors ratings during a FE scam, and you can change the vendors stats quicker then support can bag them.
Trust is the key, very hard thing on an anonymous site. When things go wrong we can have trouble keeping our cool. Me included :(
Anyhow thanks for the reminder, never hurts to review some of the pitfalls. Nothing is perfect. Well except for Christy's weed ;D
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Extending the time allowed before auto-finalize a few days, is not implying that the vendor is lying. You could have easily asked for a 3 day extension and continued to wait for your product. The resolution center is there to help you and the vendor.
I agree^
That's why it's a good idea to make sure you read the forums fully before ordering :). If i had any problems and it was near auto finalization i think i would have posted on forums asap asking advice. There's loads of friendly people looking to help people on here. Hopefully you didn't lose too much :(
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There's a counter very plainly on the "orders" page that tells you exactly when your order will auto-finalize. Why would you ever let that count all the way down if you never received your package? The resolve button is literally less than an inch away from that auto-finalize counter. That seems like a sensible thing to click right? There's even a counter on how many days until "resolve" unlocks by hovering your mouse over it. I think you even have a week or so AFTER "resolve" unlocks before your order finalizes so if you logged on to SR at all during that time your options would have been "send money to a possible scammer" or "resolve"... seems pretty obvious what you should do.
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There's a counter very plainly on the "orders" page that tells you exactly when your order will auto-finalize. Why would you ever let that count all the way down if you never received your package? The resolve button is literally less than an inch away from that auto-finalize counter. That seems like a sensible thing to click right? There's even a counter on how many days until "resolve" unlocks by hovering your mouse over it. I think you even have a week or so AFTER "resolve" unlocks before your order finalizes so if you logged on to SR at all during that time your options would have been "send money to a possible scammer" or "resolve"... seems pretty obvious what you should do.
I agree. It seems every couple weeks there's another dolt who whines and bitches about their own mistake. It's not like the resolution center is some kind of hidden secret page that only privileged individuals have access to. These goddamned idiots need to quit their complaining and just not be fuckin retarded. I feel no sympathy for these stupid fucks.
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There's a counter very plainly on the "orders" page that tells you exactly when your order will auto-finalize. Why would you ever let that count all the way down if you never received your package? The resolve button is literally less than an inch away from that auto-finalize counter. That seems like a sensible thing to click right? There's even a counter on how many days until "resolve" unlocks by hovering your mouse over it. I think you even have a week or so AFTER "resolve" unlocks before your order finalizes so if you logged on to SR at all during that time your options would have been "send money to a possible scammer" or "resolve"... seems pretty obvious what you should do.
This is going to sound funny to you; I have a life beyond sitting on the internet all day updating my status on some website. When things come when they are supposed to -there is no problem. I am new; So go ahead and point and laugh: "Ha, ha, ha -> Newb"
Judging from your posts, I make more money than you so: "Ha, ha, ha -> yur poor".
I also drove my car without reading the manual. BTW.