Silk Road forums
Support => Bug reports => Topic started by: sk0rt on June 18, 2013, 04:23 pm
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Okay so this is absurd. You cannot have both a "you need 50 posts until you can post here" rule and expect there to be no spam. I have just reported two posts which are to scammer websites and I've only just got my 50 posts.
It simply does not work. I do not understand the idea behind it whatsoever.
There are other *far* superior methods to preventing scam website promoters / spammers / idiots from posting in the other sections of the website - things such as adding all new posts to a moderation queue and having them kept in that queue until they've been verified as non-spam. There are other things that could be done as well, that's just the first one I can think of.
Obviously you can't do IP bans because of the nature of Tor but you have to do something that's not a fucking downright stupid as having a 50 post rule. It simply does not work and that's all there is to it.
The posts in the Newbie section are utter shit, there is no point in browsing it because it's 80-90% spam, it's literally just people posting for the sake of posting. And you can't even blame them because even legitimate posters here (such as myself) *have* to go through this shit in order to access the rest of the forum. Change it for goodness sake. It's *ridiculous* that you have such an immature method of "checking" that new users are not spammers when the forum they're restricted to is specifically created FOR SPAM!
Just think about it for thirty seconds and you'll come to the same conclusion.
I'm open to listening to the rationale behind the decision but I doubt that it'll convince me that it's a good idea when there's proof that it doesn't work at all.
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Stop whining. You should have seen the board before they implemented the 50-post rule.
Also, there is plenty of good discussion in the newbie forum. I go in there from time to time, and it definitely isn't 80% spam at all.
Stop whining.
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Stop whining. You should have seen the board before they implemented the 50-post rule.
Also, there is plenty of good discussion in the newbie forum. I go in there from time to time, and it definitely isn't 80% spam at all.
Stop whining.
Just because it's better does not mean that it's good. It's absolutely awful.
Two major problems with the good posts
1. Spammers even post in the genuinely useful posts asking for help, thus adding pathetic noise to their questions.
2. New posts quickly disappear off the main forum listing because of the quantity of fucking spam.
Also don't be so condescending, this is the bug report forum, I'm posting a bug, it is designed for "whining" as you put it.
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I'm assuming the mods are volunteers and not paid. The 50 post rule allows the community to determine who is a spammer and report them without the mods having to read every single post by everybody, apparently before spammers can clutter up more important sections of the forums. It just seems pretty inefficient to have the mods sit and read every post, especially when they do it for free. I also don't care for the idea of posting something and having to wait up to a day for it to appear. I would also dislike having every single post being scrutinized by the arbitrary will of just a few people. It seems to be contrary to what the silk road is all about. This is just my best guess, as I wasn't even aware that the 50 post rule existed 10 minutes ago. I hate it too, but I think the alternative is unrealistic.
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I'm assuming the mods are volunteers and not paid. The 50 post rule allows the community to determine who is a spammer and report them without the mods having to read every single post by everybody, apparently before spammers can clutter up more important sections of the forums. It just seems pretty inefficient to have the mods sit and read every post, especially when they do it for free. I also don't care for the idea of posting something and having to wait up to a day for it to appear. I would also dislike having every single post being scrutinized by the arbitrary will of just a few people. It seems to be contrary to what the silk road is all about. This is just my best guess, as I wasn't even aware that the 50 post rule existed 10 minutes ago. I hate it too, but I think the alternative is unrealistic.
Mods are paid. They do however have a lot of work to do
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Oh ok. Well I think most of what I said still applies anyway.
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Stop whining. You should have seen the board before they implemented the 50-post rule.
Also, there is plenty of good discussion in the newbie forum. I go in there from time to time, and it definitely isn't 80% spam at all.
Stop whining.
Boom bitch.
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The 50 post rule wasn't exactly widely embraced by those it confined to the newbie section and I am well aware it has it's draw backs. It does however make my job a shit load easier when it comes to containing and deleting the spammer/scammer posts that can flood the forums.
Either way I don't see the rule being changed anytime soon so I'd say just accept it for now and move on.
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The 50 post rule wasn't exactly widely embraced by those it confined to the newbie section and I am well aware it has it's draw backs. It does however make my job a shit load easier when it comes to containing and deleting the spammer/scammer posts that can flood the forums.
Either way I don't see the rule being changed anytime soon so I'd say just accept it for now and move on.
This policy would seem to encourage spam from new members more than it prevents posting by actual spammers (see “spam to 50” thread). I would expect the stats to show that it takes the vast majority of members weeks or months to naturally reach 50 posts (this is a very large number for your average forum visitor, especially where no momentum yet exists). This requirement almost certainly leads most to give up on posting entirely, or even abandon the forum as a whole, rather than endure the torture of filling out a captcha 50 times (mind-numbing to even consider), just so they can begin to contribute to the discussion in the main forums; and in this you are denying entry of potential assets, and what could have proven useful content to the rest of the community. Obviously most link spammers are likewise not going to bother breaking that barrier, and so it does effectively contain their spam to specific forums, but at great cost. Don't you spend much of your moderation time looking at the “recent posts” view (which shows the entire board), and have the ability to delete every single post for an offending member in one shot when deleting their account (the only caveat being that if someone else quote-responded to one of their messages then it would remain)? One of the newest members posted a bunch of spam links, and nothing stopped him aside from stripping the links to plain text (was going to recommend that mod).
A proper solution would be to write a modification into the post parser which counts up every non-SR url that a “newbie” posts (using regex to detect urls or just substr_count to look for instances of common domain .suffixes), stores it in the sql table alongside the other user attributes, and at a specified ratio of links-to-posts, triggers an action to notify a moderator and sets all of their posts to “requires moderator approval” status (can use the post moderation functionality that is already built into SMF); maybe dump them in a group that disallows PMs; and they could even be left to continue to waste efforts for some time (given that they should still see their own posts as visible while logged in and thus not be aware) and it will not be visible to others (non-mods). It would be extremely unlikely for a new member to sign up and start posting [multiple] non-SR links in each post and not be a spammer. With that automated detection, would it then be reasonable to cut the draconian post count requirement in half?
If there's another scenario other than what I encountered, describe it; and I'll see what I can come up with. I modded up an Invision Power Board pretty heavily a few years ago so this kind of thinking is in my element. If you guys decide that there's a chance something like this may be implemented, feel free to edit out the bit that would give away stealth.
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It has its drawbacks, but it does more good than harm. At the very least the spam is mostly contained in one section, the Newbie board. I can see your frustration and understand OP, but honestly is it that much to ask for a new member to make a mere 50 posts before jumping into the other discussions?
I also believe that the rule will continue to remain in place for the simple reason I stated above.
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imagine the mess the entire forum would be if you could post everywhere as soon as you registered.
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the big problem is whenever i try to place an order SR throws up errors, so i came on here to try to post and figure out why, only to be told its going to take me ages to work up 50 posts- to auctually use it.
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Well I as newbie, who just registerded a few weeks ago think it's okay that I first have to look at the forum closer and work my self into the details , before I can start talking everywhere.
My only concern would be PLEASE to write somewhere , That you can first comment in these sections when you have 50 posts. Because I have been feeling kind of fooled because I searched the Post/comment button like ages and have now first over this post got to know that I need %0 posts to talk in some section.
Thanks alot
regards daVinci
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the big problem is whenever i try to place an order SR throws up errors, so i came on here to try to post and figure out why, only to be told its going to take me ages to work up 50 posts- to auctually use it.
What you would have found if you were to post about your problem in the Newbie section, or customer service which is open to newbies as well is that you can find solutions in those areas even while you are working up to 50 posts.
So far you have made poor choices and complained about a rule you don't like rather than seeking solutions to your problem.
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Making people jump thru hoops can reap benefits for its own sake.
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Stop whining. You should have seen the board before they implemented the 50-post rule.
Also, there is plenty of good discussion in the newbie forum. I go in there from time to time, and it definitely isn't 80% spam at all.
Stop whining.
Just because it's better does not mean that it's good. It's absolutely awful.
Two major problems with the good posts
1. Spammers even post in the genuinely useful posts asking for help, thus adding pathetic noise to their questions.
2. New posts quickly disappear off the main forum listing because of the quantity of fucking spam.
Also don't be so condescending, this is the bug report forum, I'm posting a bug, it is designed for "whining" as you put it.
I definitely agree with you on point 1. I've seen that a lot whilst surfing the newbie forum ::)
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The 50 post rule is a step in the right direction. Next, eliminate the spam threads and make productive engagement with, at least, the basic security tutorial threads a co-prerequisite for access to the rest of the forum. To keep the mods free, and to help create a supportive, committed environment, mentoring of newbies and the responsibility to make sure they are adequately educated should fall to the 50-150 posters.
I started this forum account yesterday. I haven't been here day and night, I work, but I haven't spammed at all.
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How do I now "unsubscribe" to all those "spam to 50" threads that I took part in?
Whenever I go to "Show new replies to your posts", I see all that shit in there. I'd like to unsubscribe from them as it were (if this were vBulletin for example).
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Once you get to 100 posts, you can go back and delete all your spam posts to unsubscribe.
Or you can do them one at a time as you create new posts.
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Once you get to 100 posts, you can go back and delete all your spam posts to unsubscribe.
Or you can do them one at a time as you create new posts.
:rolleyes: :D
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Or just deal with it...?
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Once you get to 100 posts, you can go back and delete all your spam posts to unsubscribe.
Or you can do them one at a time as you create new posts.
:rolleyes: :D
Seriously though? Are you a 9 year old girl? There are only two realistic possibilities here.. Either you are going to be an active member of the community, in which case you will get through this and earn your stripes and it wont matter... Or you are not going to be an active member, with few posts and be on the forums infrequently, in which case having these threads show up in your 'new posts' page is hardly an inconvenience...
Can you describe some other situation where this problem is something to be complaining or "rolling your eyes" about? Are you high?
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Once you get to 100 posts, you can go back and delete all your spam posts to unsubscribe.
Or you can do them one at a time as you create new posts.
:rolleyes: :D
Seriously though? Are you a 9 year old girl? There are only two realistic possibilities here.. Either you are going to be an active member of the community, in which case you will get through this and earn your stripes and it wont matter... Or you are not going to be an active member, with few posts and be on the forums infrequently, in which case having these threads show up in your 'new posts' page is hardly an inconvenience...
Can you describe some other situation where this problem is something to be complaining or "rolling your eyes" about? Are you high?
Sorry. I did put a massive grin after my rolleyes!! :D lol
What's slightly annoying though is the fact that the "spam to 50" threads will always have new replies, every day. Maybe there could be some bi-weekly culling of those threads? Let people start up fresh ones? Although, that would screw up people's post counts. Hmm. No I'm not bothered I was just wondering and would have liked to have removed them from my "new replies" thing. The rolleyes was meant in a light-hearted way though, at the thought of one-by-one deleting old posts. I think the proper way forward is for me to stop using the new replies thing, and instead enable notifications for threads I'm interested in or something.
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I am grateful that you told me how to do it though! I should have said that first, sorry ;)
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No worries.
Honestly deleting 50 spam posts isn't all that onerous and is well worth it to use the new replies link. The notify function doesn't work as far as I can tell.
If it does maybe you could explain it to me?
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No worries.
Honestly deleting 50 spam posts isn't all that onerous and is well worth it to use the new replies link. The notify function doesn't work as far as I can tell.
If it does maybe you could explain it to me?
Ah, well, I don't know. Maybe that's for email notifications, which obviously ain't gonna happen! :)
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This policy would seem to encourage spam from new members more than it prevents posting by actual spammers (see “spam to 50” thread). I would expect the stats to show that it takes the vast majority of members weeks or months to naturally reach 50 posts (this is a very large number for your average forum visitor, especially where no momentum yet exists). This requirement almost certainly leads most to give up on posting entirely, or even abandon the forum as a whole, rather than endure the torture of filling out a captcha 50 times (mind-numbing to even consider), just so they can begin to contribute to the discussion in the main forums; and in this you are denying entry of potential assets, and what could have proven useful content to the rest of the community.
I have to agree. I've been active on SR for over a year and my forum account is over a year old. I don't use it frequently, but the fact that I can't contribute to the current discussions about improving the feedback system is baffling and ridiculous.
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Nothing is preventing you from contributing to the discussion. You just have to do it in the Newbie Section.. If you never cared to have a learn about something in the forums before now, why complain? If you already knew everything you needed to know, why not spend some time helping out others?
Sorry, I have little compassion for someone who hasn't done anything around here but satisfy their needs..
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Sorry, but that's ridiculous and strikes of elitist, exclusionary thinking. I want to reply on the actual DPR thread to offer suggestions on the ongoing updates. This *is* helping others -- by contributing to the conversation. There is no reason that my comments ought to be regulated to some Newbie "ghetto" based on the number of my posts. I post when I have something to say, which isn't all that frequent. Post quantity has nothing to do with post quality.
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Honestly I agree with you on that point. Unfortunately the forums were subject to attack by spam bots and a terrible side effect of the fix for that is that someone in your situation either needs to find a way to participate more and get to a whopping 50 posts, or enjoy the debate from the sidelines.
Again, for someone like you, who doesn't spend time here the problem of spam bots isn't really a problem for you. So while this seems unfair, hopefully you can appreciate the troubles of those who do spend time here and understand why we have this system in place.
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I agree. You can't contribute to a discussion when you're, umm, not allowed to contribute to that actual discussion.
As much as it might pain you, you're going to have to just post a load of demoralizing worthless bullshit so that if/when you do have an epihphany, you are allowed to contribute and share it.
On the plus side, once you hit 100 posts, you dont have to do, and re-do/reload&refresh the capchas, and you can give karma :-)
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I mean...this is just a totally absurd "solution." "We got a lot of spam in the past, so now we require new members to spam fifty posts before they can contribute."
...what?
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Again, you would understand if you had been around for the problem. The spam we had trouble with would completely fill up page after page on the forum so members could not even browse threads whatsoever. The new system does not require anyone to spam. You can choose to spam, but you have to do it in the newbie forum where you can't bother people who are here for the purpose of the forum. You can also choose to have legitimate conversation with others, albeit in the newbie forum as well, until you reach 50 posts.
Your post here and your baffled tone show exactly how much you do not understand the problem. Even if I could show you the problem, it wouldn't mean anything to you because you do not contribute or spend time on the forums.
Your whining and complaining about a problem that doesn't effect you, except for the 15 times you have now chosen to drag yourself to the forums, mean little to those who actually do spend time here and were troubled by the effects of spam bots.
Take a few minutes and try to empathize with the reasons these policies were but into place. If you can't put the scenario together in your head enough to understand that this system fixes what was a major problem, you probably shouldn't be on Silk Road to begin with.
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Again, you would understand if you had been around for the problem. The spam we had trouble with would completely fill up page after page on the forum so members could not even browse threads whatsoever. The new system does not require anyone to spam. You can choose to spam, but you have to do it in the newbie forum where you can't bother people who are here for the purpose of the forum. You can also choose to have legitimate conversation with others, albeit in the newbie forum as well, until you reach 50 posts.
Your post here and your baffled tone show exactly how much you do not understand the problem. Even if I could show you the problem, it wouldn't mean anything to you because you do not contribute or spend time on the forums.
Your whining and complaining about a problem that doesn't effect you, except for the 15 times you have now chosen to drag yourself to the forums, mean little to those who actually do spend time here and were troubled by the effects of spam bots.
Take a few minutes and try to empathize with the reasons these policies were but into place. If you can't put the scenario together in your head enough to understand that this system fixes what was a major problem, you probably shouldn't be on Silk Road to begin with.
You're sure making a lot of unfounded assumptions about me.
Just because I didn't *post* often in the forum doesn't mean I didn't visit it regularly or read extensively. I only post when I feel I have something significant to offer. I do not recall seeing any such disabling of the forum by spammers, and even if it were so, this is still a short-sighted and exclusionary solution. If this forum existed on its own, unrelated to SR, that might be a little more legitimate. As a forum tied to discussion about SR, it's counter-productive and counter-community.
Whatever the problem may be, however defensively you may feel about it, the current "solution" is a crappy one. It, and your responses, smack of "I got mine, now piss off."
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Obviously if you have never seen the problematic spam bot posts overrun the forums and make them unusable you were not using the forums when it was happening. That is not an assumption, it is a correlatable fact. I do not mean to come off with an "I got mine, now piss off" attitude at all. But the fact is that the problem that was corrected by this policy wouldn't affect someone who has posted 14 times in 13 months.. So of course, since you have not had the pain of that inconvenience, you don't see the value in the policy. Your complete refusal to even attempt to empathize with those who suffered from the problem of spam bots speaks to your character. Again, not an assumption, anyone who reads your posts thoughtfully would reasonable come to a similar conclusion.
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Yeah, sorry dkforc but if you didn't see the problem you have no idea how well this has worked and it's worked very well. Yes, people who just read and don't post suddenly got corralled (myself included) but the spam that was literally all over the forum (it would come in waves...pages upon pages of it) is now largely contained in this one forum, making cleanup by staff a much simpler task.
I understand the frustration some feel, but posting in a dedicated spam to 50 thread in the newbie forum or just joining in a conversation for a bit gets you to 50.
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I mean...this is just a totally absurd "solution." "We got a lot of spam in the past, so now we require new members to spam fifty posts before they can contribute."
...what?
Not everyone spams to 50, some people actually use the time to research the forums and post considered and insightful contributions to the community discussion.
As I have said before the 50 post rule isn't going to be changed anytime soon and do not be surprised if the newbie forums gets cleaned up at some stage, just because spam is tolerated in there at the moment it may not stay like that way forever.
I appreciate the 50 post rule is not universally popular but from a mods perspective it has made keeping the forums spam free a 1000 times easier.
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Not just the mods perspective. Us lowly forum members appreciate it as well.. The only people you see complaining are those who are not active participants.
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Not just the mods perspective. Us lowly forum members appreciate it as well.. The only people you see complaining are those who are not active participants.
This argument is absurd and self-contradictory. My very complaint is that I cannot be an active participant *because* of this rule.
I have no lack of empathy for whatever spam you and others had to "endure". I have a complete lack of empathy for your unyielding defense of what is, I claim, a poor solution to that problem. It encourages a mentality of exclusion and insularity, which DPR has clearly shown to be values not part of his agenda.
And forgive me, but I was not of the understanding that the mission of this forum was to make life easy for mods.
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Not just the mods perspective. Us lowly forum members appreciate it as well.. The only people you see complaining are those who are not active participants.
This argument is absurd and self-contradictory. My very complaint is that I cannot be an active participant *because* of this rule.
I have no lack of empathy for whatever spam you and others had to "endure". I have a complete lack of empathy for your unyielding defense of what is, I claim, a poor solution to that problem. It encourages a mentality of exclusion and insularity, which DPR has clearly shown to be values not part of his agenda.
And forgive me, but I was not of the understanding that the mission of this forum was to make life easy for mods.
In 35 posts time all this will be a moot point for you dkforc and you will be free to post across whatever board you like ;)
I hope making 35 posts does not present an insurmountable task for you.
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By what measure is it "a poor solution to that problem?"
The mission of this forum was to enable discussion about SR and related topics. That mission was being subverted by spam bots. No longer are spam bots a major issue. The mission is being carried out. You are welcome to join the ranks by creating 50 posts. Sort of like in order to use SR you needed to learn TOR, bitcoin, and PGP... Should we put SR on the clearnet because TOR is too difficult for some people? By your logic, yes. Should we operate in USD because obtaining bitcoin is an impediment? By your logic yes.
Hey. If you complain about it long enough I suppose you will get to 50 posts.. Then you could complain about it in the big boy threads.
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The forums were a complete mess before the 50 posts rule was brought in. As Turkey said, literally every page of every topic was spam.
It was a nightmare. 50 posts is a simple and effective deterrent to the issues.
Sorry that you don't like it, but that is how it is.
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By what measure is it "a poor solution to that problem?"
The mission of this forum was to enable discussion about SR and related topics. That mission was being subverted by spam bots. No longer are spam bots a major issue. The mission is being carried out. You are welcome to join the ranks by creating 50 posts. Sort of like in order to use SR you needed to learn TOR, bitcoin, and PGP... Should we put SR on the clearnet because TOR is too difficult for some people? By your logic, yes. Should we operate in USD because obtaining bitcoin is an impediment? By your logic yes.
Hey. If you complain about it long enough I suppose you will get to 50 posts.. Then you could complain about it in the big boy threads.
I would love to hear how my proposal that a solution to the spam problem should not involve excluding new users would imply SR should move to the clearnet. You argue against nothing but strawmen and make no effort to understand anything but your own entrenched perspective.
Seriously, take thirty seconds and imagine being a new user. "The spam was too bad, so now you have to make fifty posts." This is contradictory. The mission, as you describe it, is now being subverted by this very rule. I don't know how else to say it.
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Straw man claim granted. Don't throw the same trick back at me though and pretend I can't see your perspective.
In no way does the rule subvert the objective as those who choose to spam to 50 must do so in the newbie section and if they are the type of spammer we have a problem with, they are caught before they make it to the general forums.
Let me lay it out one more time. You are welcome to discuss whatever you want in the newbie forum. You have unlimited freedom in the newbie section. You can even choose to SPAM. To chat with active members in the other parts of the forums, you need to yourself be an active member. You want to have access to those sections of the forums bad enough to bitch about it in a few posts here, why don't you just teach a few people about PGP or obtaining Bitcoin, or shipping, or safe drug use? Personally, I am glad that you, yes specifically you, are not a member of the broader community. You are demonstrably a selfish person who only cares about talking here when it serves yourself.
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Also, just to clarify. The straw man arguments were meant to demonstrate the absurdity of your argument. You're claim that we should eliminate the 50 post rule so the forums are easily accessible to anyone is as absurd to me as putting SilkRoad on the clearnet so that people incapable of navigating TOR can be able to use it. Or insisting that we all operate in USD because some people find it difficult to obtain Bitcoin.
To me, that is exactly how ridiculous you sound.
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I suppose the captcha rules are unfair too... You know the people who have over a certain number of posts don't have to fill out captchas all the time as well...
Just thought I'd share that with you.
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Personally, I am glad that you, yes specifically you, are not a member of the broader community. You are demonstrably a selfish person who only cares about talking here when it serves yourself.
Perhaps you could have researched my actual post history before making such ignorant claims.
I suppose the captcha rules are unfair too... You know the people who have over a certain number of posts don't have to fill out captchas all the time as well...
Just thought I'd share that with you.
More strawmen. I never made that argument. Captchas are a great part of a real solution because they only exclude spam and not actual contribution.
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Perhaps you could have researched my actual post history before making such ignorant claims.
Ha! I don't have time to go through your vast post histo.... oh. Erm. Nevermind.
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I can't believe this thread is still going. I was the first commenter, and really there's not much to say other than what I said back then.
Stop fucking whining you bitches. Start posting so you get access to the rest of the forum. It's so much better now we have this policy in place.
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I'm sort of new to the forum but no stranger to silk road :D I think the 50 post rule is quite important because most spammers are lazy, so they won't go through the trouble of doing 50 posts just to spread their spam. Just my opinion :)
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the 50 post rule is to encourage you to buy some meth to get through it
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I think its a simple rule which should be adhered to.
50 posts get tied to your User ID, which effectively renders your commitment to remaining on the boards.
If you are a "substance user", there should not be a problem of SPAM but instead, constructive discussions leading to the eventuality of the 50th.
0.000002 Bitcoin worth