Silk Road forums
Support => Customer support => Topic started by: Charlesnoir on June 16, 2013, 06:57 pm
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To Administration,
As a buyer in the Methamphetamine category for the last three months, I have noticed something alarming that you may wish to investigate.
I have bought product from six different vendors. They are all selling the same fake methamphetamine, N-ISO crystals.
These crystals are Alkylbenzylamines. They are used as cutting agents and are also used in large shipments to mimic Meth...counterfeit Meth, so to speak.
N-methylbenzylamine (N-MBA), N-ethylbenzylamine (N-EBA), and N-isopropylbenzylamine (N-IBA) are being manufactured in large part in Mexico and are passed off as meth. Alkylbenzalamines are inexpensive and unscheduled. They not only can form large shard crystals that look like meth, but have close chemical properties such as boiling point and solvency.
Whereas methamphetamine is a central nervous system stimulant that has a euphoric effect, alkylbenzylamines are a peripheral nervous system stimulant that is similar to the jitters of caffeine, but with other deleterious effects.
These include:
-Depression
-Fatigue
-Headache
-Malaise
-Confusion
-Nausea/Diarreha/Constipation
-Tightness in Chest
-Irritation of Soft Tissue of the Mouth (If Smoked)
-Pain and Irritation of the Veins (If Injected)
If the vendors advertised the sale of N-Iso crystals, they would generate no sales.
Instead, they advertise the sale of "Pure Methamphetamine". Or "Methamphetamine" shards or crystals. If the buyer receives ANY real meth in the crystals they receive, it is minimal.
Of course, there is no such thing as pure meth. Any experienced user of this drug knows that and knows to expect some cutting agent in their purchase. However, all cutting agent is fraud and it WILL make the buyer sick.
In a free, unregulated market, this problem normally would resolve itself in time. Buyers receiving these counterfeit goods would complain, rate the vendor accordingly and not go back.
Herein lies the catch: There are loopholes that prohibit this market from righting itself and will prolong this fraud.
-Multiple vendor accounts operated by the same person selling the same counterfeit drugs.
-Vendors supplied from the same mass producer: Mexico. This is almost the only thing they are exporting currently and will continue to do so as long as people buy this substitute, especially at prices giving them astronomical profits.
-Buyers who finalize before adequately testing the product.
-Buyers who finalize and do not leave an accurate review because despite receipt of fake dope, do not want to be "Blacklisted".
-Buyers new to this product who do not know what to expect. They either accept this as normal meth and keep buying it, or more likely, don't buy again.
All of these issues would still sort themselves out over time were it not for the following phenomenon:
-Sellers opening multiple accounts under many different names, genders, and time frames in the FORUMS.
These "members" then post reviews touting their own bogus product. The same vendor will even have his forum "members" chat with each other, all while exclaiming the greatness of whatever the vendor is selling.
Buyers who have been around for awhile most likely catch on to this scam in time, but perhaps not always prior to falling for these false reviews and getting ripped off.
Even seasoned members who believe these fake reviews and buy the fake dope are reluctant to call bullshit, thinking it must be something with them; After all, they think, "So and So" who has xxxxx posts and is always around the forums, and who other people seem to respect, liked it. Not only liked it, but raved about it! Must be something wrong with me.
Further exacerbating this problem is that any member giving an honest critique of the counterfeit goods is immediately ganged up upon by the multiple personas of the vendor, wondering what is wrong with them. Not wanting to be discredited, the honest member either backs off, or does not say anything in the first place.
All of this continues to generate business for the vendors, and they get away with it for awhile until outed and banned.
Then, they open an new vendor account under a new name, and the whole thing starts all over again.
My questions to you are:
1. Is there any way to investigate the vendors in this category who are selling fake dope to determine if some are operated by the same person?
AND CONCURRENTLY
2. Is there any way for administration to link the multiple personas of a vendor in the forums to their vendor accounts?
I bring this to your attention in the event that administration finds these activities against Silk Road policy and chooses to investigate.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or if I can be of any assistance in this matter.
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To bring vendors to the attention of the admins on the market site buyers can click on the 'report vendor' option and I would encourage everyone to leave fair and accurate feedback for the transactions that they conduct. The admins can then conduct an investigation and take the appropriate action where necessary and if everyone uses the feedback system correctly any issues with a vendors product should become apparent pretty quickly.
To answer your other question yes it is sometimes possible for the admins to link multiple vendor accounts including previous banned accounts.
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Thank you for your fast reply.
I really hope everyone will take your response and course of action as vital to ensuring that unscrupulous vendors don't feel that this is an easy marketplace to scam buyers.
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Congratulations on letting the greater population know about the super-cut, including all the details.
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Thanks for the knowledge
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>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I feel ya brother. I've been watching carefully all forums on onion and clearnet, and have been starting to believe that there are many people doing this kinda shillin' whatever you wanna call it scam. Matter of fact I called it out so much on a clearnet forum focusing on legal compounds that now it only seems that there is only three people posting, not including a friend and I on the whole site. The only three are legit vendors, nuts huh? Anyhow, I've been worried about SR MDMA procurement because just about every vendor ask for FE if you don't have any buys under your belt, when everyone on the forum and the rules on the site say no FE for no reason. Then you read their reviews and all these people seem to have posted on the same day if not a few days latter. Some of the reviews look like double triple clicking or something. Anyhow, I'm going against the grain and FE on the faith that after some communication, i feel as if this were a deal made at an event in the physical world. Only 'cause the FE isn't that bad of a loss, like a gamble. If i win it would be freaking awesome and I would become that vendors best customer ever, if I loose, I just won't ever FE again. I don't want to believe that there are not really that much people out there buying and selling. I want to believe nobody has multiple accounts and that we're all finally rising together, helping each other out against the powers that keep wanting to legislate morality. I see the frustations of many vendors being that they have to pay to vend and if the buyer is a jack ass and claims the shit never made it there he loose btc's and possibly his account. Do vendors keep tracking numbers in order to dispute SR's decision based on a buyer? How does the buyer prove that it never made it???
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It is difficult for new buyers to avoid the need to FE and i suspect it is getting harder as more people find their way to SR and the number of 'newbies' increases as vendors experience the highest number of issues with newbies, not necessarily scamming I hasten to add, more having to support and educate people about how to go about using this place safely which is hugely time consuming.
The best advise I can give for those just getting started is do as much research as you possibly can on all aspects of how this place works e.g. PGP, safe drop arrangements, obtaining bitcoin, how escrow works etc all of which can easily be found in the SR wiki. Then once you have identified a few vendors you consider potentially good to buy from send them a PM to introduce yourself and sound them out to build some rapport. If a vendor can see that despite you being new you know what you are doing and probably won't be a pain in the ass to deal with they may very well let you stay in escrow.
Vendors at the end of the day want smooth transactions the same as the buyers, they do not want to be burning valuable time in the resolution center or responding to messages that need not have even been sent if the sender had taken the time to read the information on the vendors page.
Before you know it you will have enough transactions under your belt and the entire FE issue not longer applies.
ssbd
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Makes sense. That's why i lurked around for so long before I started asking questions for myself. I didn't wanna fuck up a good thing and not know how to go a bouts traveling and communicating.
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To Administration,
As a buyer in the Methamphetamine category for the last three months, I have noticed something alarming that you may wish to investigate.
I have bought product from six different vendors. They are all selling the same fake methamphetamine, N-ISO crystals.
These crystals are Alkylbenzylamines. They are used as cutting agents and are also used in large shipments to mimic Meth...counterfeit Meth, so to speak.
N-methylbenzylamine (N-MBA), N-ethylbenzylamine (N-EBA), and N-isopropylbenzylamine (N-IBA) are being manufactured in large part in Mexico and are passed off as meth. Alkylbenzalamines are inexpensive and unscheduled. They not only can form large shard crystals that look like meth, but have close chemical properties such as boiling point and solvency.
Whereas methamphetamine is a central nervous system stimulant that has a euphoric effect, alkylbenzylamines are a peripheral nervous system stimulant that is similar to the jitters of caffeine, but with other deleterious effects.
These include:
-Depression
-Fatigue
-Headache
-Malaise
-Confusion
-Nausea/Diarreha/Constipation
-Tightness in Chest
-Irritation of Soft Tissue of the Mouth (If Smoked)
-Pain and Irritation of the Veins (If Injected)
If the vendors advertised the sale of N-Iso crystals, they would generate no sales.
Instead, they advertise the sale of "Pure Methamphetamine". Or "Methamphetamine" shards or crystals. If the buyer receives ANY real meth in the crystals they receive, it is minimal.
Of course, there is no such thing as pure meth. Any experienced user of this drug knows that and knows to expect some cutting agent in their purchase. However, all cutting agent is fraud and it WILL make the buyer sick.
In a free, unregulated market, this problem normally would resolve itself in time. Buyers receiving these counterfeit goods would complain, rate the vendor accordingly and not go back.
Herein lies the catch: There are loopholes that prohibit this market from righting itself and will prolong this fraud.
-Multiple vendor accounts operated by the same person selling the same counterfeit drugs.
-Vendors supplied from the same mass producer: Mexico. This is almost the only thing they are exporting currently and will continue to do so as long as people buy this substitute, especially at prices giving them astronomical profits.
-Buyers who finalize before adequately testing the product.
-Buyers who finalize and do not leave an accurate review because despite receipt of fake dope, do not want to be "Blacklisted".
-Buyers new to this product who do not know what to expect. They either accept this as normal meth and keep buying it, or more likely, don't buy again.
All of these issues would still sort themselves out over time were it not for the following phenomenon:
-Sellers opening multiple accounts under many different names, genders, and time frames in the FORUMS.
These "members" then post reviews touting their own bogus product. The same vendor will even have his forum "members" chat with each other, all while exclaiming the greatness of whatever the vendor is selling.
Buyers who have been around for awhile most likely catch on to this scam in time, but perhaps not always prior to falling for these false reviews and getting ripped off.
Even seasoned members who believe these fake reviews and buy the fake dope are reluctant to call bullshit, thinking it must be something with them; After all, they think, "So and So" who has xxxxx posts and is always around the forums, and who other people seem to respect, liked it. Not only liked it, but raved about it! Must be something wrong with me.
Further exacerbating this problem is that any member giving an honest critique of the counterfeit goods is immediately ganged up upon by the multiple personas of the vendor, wondering what is wrong with them. Not wanting to be discredited, the honest member either backs off, or does not say anything in the first place.
All of this continues to generate business for the vendors, and they get away with it for awhile until outed and banned.
Then, they open an new vendor account under a new name, and the whole thing starts all over again.
My questions to you are:
1. Is there any way to investigate the vendors in this category who are selling fake dope to determine if some are operated by the same person?
AND CONCURRENTLY
2. Is there any way for administration to link the multiple personas of a vendor in the forums to their vendor accounts?
I bring this to your attention in the event that administration finds these activities against Silk Road policy and chooses to investigate.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or if I can be of any assistance in this matter.
good post +1 :-)
presumably.. you might get some hints about which vendor accounts are run by the same
person by analysing the drugs.. if they have the same chemical profile.. then perhaps
(but only perhaps).. it's the same 'dirty dog' .. behind them.
The alternative is that vendor A, and vendor B.. both buy their drugs from drug baron C.
Is there something like a 'ecstasy test' or 'amphetamines test' that can distinguish between
real meth.. and other members of the same family. Perhaps you could demonstrate that
this 'gear' isn't kosha... or maybe you'd find that it's just heavily cut.