Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: some.bloke on February 04, 2013, 11:49 am
-
You read DRead Pirate Roberts recommendations and he states clearly 'never FE',but we know its quite a common request, and sometimes understandable when vendors have all their BTC tied up in escrow this can run them dry as they need cash flow. SO... how about a compromise in rating:
-IF you force FE, how about we as buyers only give a max 4/5 rating as a trade off?
- And how about marking the transaction low, until proven otherwise?
-It seems to be a sellers world out there, the 'selective scamming' technique just makes good business sense if u look into it. Selective scamming vendors can still rack up very high % positive feedback as they will always offer some 'fair' refund for non receival, thus still get 5/5 even when they have selectively scammed you. THey just claim the 'ol 'must of been sezied by customs' excuse. Its too ez. Half the buyers who are selectively scammed dont even bother chasing up a refund, they just cop the loss due to the fact they are 'buying illegal drugs on the internet'.
HOw about we start now making the Vendors accountable for their authoritarian demands?
I read the above elsewhere and liked it and so did others but when i have mentioned it to FE vendors they have all claimed they have never heard of it and I'm the first.But they have all been worried about it messing with their feedback score, so it seems like it could influence them o the beneft of the buyer. What you guys reckon?
I can guarantee that selective scamming is well and truly alive and kicking as a well known and practices policy of the business savvy/greedy vendor, over the alternative of packages being picked up by customs. I have been conducting my own tests with mates in countries sending me 'suss'packages which always get through totally untampered with, yet vendors sending out identical packages with genuine product just dont arrive. How we can we bring a stop to this practice?Any other ideas welcome.
-
What can we do? It's like banging you're head against a brick wall. Don't F/E this and that. The whole point of this forum is convenience right? Well tell me how about this for inconvenience, you try and order, nobody want's to deal with you because you have no transactions. The whole point is you have no connections on the street, you cant score, hence why you're here in the first fu*king place., you have to build up a trustful relationship before anybody will serve you ha!. I thought that was the whole point, so you don't have to try and score on the street. Definition of irony? Trying to score on here but being told NO, you aren't trustworthy ??? Go back to street, comical.
-
Any newbs looking at my Karma, just reverse the rate, It's like with reviewing vendors, you can't tell the truth for fear of never getting served, and with Karma, you cant offer an opinion lest some inarticulate scum bag with a drug raddled brain disagrees and proceeds to fu*k your reputation up. And if they have more posts, you're fuc*ed even more, because their fellow keyboard warriors will troll you in unison. Pathetic innit? I advise to just state you're opinion then never read the relies. simples.
-
Regardless of what a vendor requests you to do, NEVER FE, end of story. There are vendors out there who utilize the SR Escrow system. If you have a low number of transactions, my advice to you would be to buy some small orders from domestic vendors so you almost can guarantee a successful delivery without the hassle of going through Customs. Look at making some digital purchases to add to your score as well and don't be afraid to ask a vendor, politely of course, if they would allow you to stay in Escrow as you believed in that system. Make sure you emphasize the fact that you will finalize the order immediately upon it's arrival, without delay. ;) :) :)
-
-IF you force FE, how about we as buyers only give a max 4/5 rating as a trade off?
- And how about marking the transaction low, until proven otherwise?
Personally, I hate seeing "FE" in the feedback, it wastes space. I think until the transaction is complete (i.e. you've got the product), you shouldn't leave feedback.
-
you don't have to leave feedback after finalizing just go out of orders section. Well for new people it may look like you have to leave feedback. You can go back and leave feedback whenever you want.
-
Never FE!!!
-
they could just sell FE vendor accounts for a pretty penny, and their orders require immediate payment.
-
Dead Pirate Roberts [sic!] is a hypocrite. He says you shouldnt fe but doesn't really give a shit if you do or are forced to. It would be as easy as pie to not allow it. Why would any vendor need you to fe anyway? all sellers are rich mofos who can easily afford 500 bucks, so they clearly don't need any cash in advance...
Hypocrisy wherever you look...
-
I have never FE and never would but to say DPR is a hypocrite is a bit rich! For reasons unbeknown to me, some buyers choose to FE, but that's their choice to make. It's a matter of personal responsibility and taking time to educate yourself on how things work on the SR. There are way too many newbie's here who are so eager to purchase something that they place an order without taking the time to learn the in's and out's first. These are the people I have no sympathy for whatsoever. There are some great newbie's who understand the important of educating yourself first and they will be the ones who are less likely to be scammed. If you don't want to FE, DON"T! It's as simple as that. If you do want to FE, go ahead and throw your money away. Just don't start up a thread saying you were scammed by a vendor if you did FE.
-
I would definitely say to never FE. At the same time (coming from a small vendor) there are many people who do not finalize in a timely fashion, which causes larger vendors to become somewhat fed up and make members FE on larger products. I can honestly see both sides of reasoning which is why I personally never look at some of the larger vendors as bad for asking FE on large orders. Ive only been on the road as a vendor for about a month now and have already experienced members letting their orders auto-finalize etc. There has to be some kind of median. Maybe there should be some kind of buyer stat that averages your finalization time. I honestly think that would help alot. Also, in the street you cant buy anything without having the money on hand, SR is not perfect and there are alot of opportunists who are clever enough to exploit holes in the SR escrow system. If you were a dealer would you be fine with waiting 2 weeks to get paid for a product that has already been consumed by the buyer? I definitely think it goes both ways. Every buyer isnt a stand up person as many of the people on the forums are. As for the selective scamming from overseas vendors, you're not forced to order anything from anyone. Most people choose to order many of the products from overseas because its cheaper. Well, its not always good to penny pinch in many situations, you become more vulnerable to many 'Selective Scamming'. Essentially, its the example of one bad apple, all it takes is getting burned for a large order one time from a buyer to make a vendor take out his frustrations on the majority(asking for FE). Its not really as cut and dry as all FE vendors are bad. Just my opinion.
P.S. I love this place so far!!!!!!!
-
Any newbs looking at my Karma, just reverse the rate, It's like with reviewing vendors, you can't tell the truth for fear of never getting served, and with Karma, you cant offer an opinion lest some inarticulate scum bag with a drug raddled brain disagrees and proceeds to fu*k your reputation up. And if they have more posts, you're fuc*ed even more, because their fellow keyboard warriors will troll you in unison. Pathetic innit? I advise to just state you're opinion then never read the relies. simples.
Yeh dickhed. Rember this?
It has come to my attention the above mentioned is brown nosing DPR. He is crying because he has been here before us newbs and he isnt getting the respect he thinks he deserves ha! checky feckwitt
I have some advice, you volunteered to brown nose, then you moan when people ask you questions, I have reported you to the admins for trying to extort BTC out of new members, which he thinks are erect members. And if you have all day to delete spam and go on a power trip, JOBSWORTH you are. Try and extort my friends again and watch what happens.
You been here a few weeks virtually, who are you again? oh yeah, nobody. Didn't you say you didn't even know what meth was? You wanted to know how they made it and wondered if it was scotch on the rocks? thas alcohol fuckhed.
Now on to other matters. Reducing the feedback to 4/65 for vendors who force FE has been suggested before and may have merit. How about .5 off for demanding FE? unless there's a reason for it that is. like australia or some crap. if theres a reeson faor enuff.
And FYI nomad Bloodbath has done a heel of a lot more for this community than you so he can do what he likes. You reported nomad to admin because of his sig? Can you us a favour? Can you chase the front wheels of a semi truck this weekend? Thanks!! ;)
And one last thing. Rocky, you are an idiot. Youre not smart enuf to have a shill account and not have it picked up. Someone else picked it up with only 15 posts. I picked it up with about 40 coz i wasnt paying attention. Do what everyone else does: just buy teh drugs and shut up.
So how is everybody today? :)
-
I just dont see how anyone couldn't trust the escrow system, I haven't been around long so I don't know if theres been issues in the past with it , which would seem doubtful at this point to me atleast. Besides, with something such as the escrow system its just as big a risk as say walkin block to block in the hood lookin for somebody to AYOOO you to find out its a fiend tryin to come up, or worse the laws snatch you up, now your moneys in a real trust fund rofl. Don't get me wrong I have faith in the SR escrow. It would be interesting to know how the escrow system works, who controls it ect... maybe this might help in someway too?
XXXotica's idea was a good one: "Maybe there should be some kind of buyer stat that averages your finalization time. I honestly think that would help alot."
JBS's thoughts , gooday
-
XXXotica's idea was a good one: "Maybe there should be some kind of buyer stat that averages your finalization time. I honestly think that would help alot."
JBS's thoughts , gooday
Coulndn't agree more. Never FE, a vendor could turn their back on you at any moment and you could be out some precious cash
-
Maybe there should be some kind of buyer stat that averages your finalization time. I honestly think that would help alot.
I agree with this. This would give buyers some incentive to finalizing quickly after receiving the product.
-
You read DRead Pirate Roberts recommendations and he states clearly 'never FE',but we know its quite a common request, and sometimes understandable when vendors have all their BTC tied up in escrow this can run them dry as they need cash flow. SO... how about a compromise in rating:
-IF you force FE, how about we as buyers only give a max 4/5 rating as a trade off?
- And how about marking the transaction low, until proven otherwise?
-It seems to be a sellers world out there, the 'selective scamming' technique just makes good business sense if u look into it. Selective scamming vendors can still rack up very high % positive feedback as they will always offer some 'fair' refund for non receival, thus still get 5/5 even when they have selectively scammed you. THey just claim the 'ol 'must of been sezied by customs' excuse. Its too ez. Half the buyers who are selectively scammed dont even bother chasing up a refund, they just cop the loss due to the fact they are 'buying illegal drugs on the internet'.
HOw about we start now making the Vendors accountable for their authoritarian demands?
I read the above elsewhere and liked it and so did others but when i have mentioned it to FE vendors they have all claimed they have never heard of it and I'm the first.But they have all been worried about it messing with their feedback score, so it seems like it could influence them o the beneft of the buyer. What you guys reckon?
I can guarantee that selective scamming is well and truly alive and kicking as a well known and practices policy of the business savvy/greedy vendor, over the alternative of packages being picked up by customs. I have been conducting my own tests with mates in countries sending me 'suss'packages which always get through totally untampered with, yet vendors sending out identical packages with genuine product just dont arrive. How we can we bring a stop to this practice?Any other ideas welcome.
Sit tight with this idea, I am currently working on a proposal to standardize feedback scores based upon a number of factors. The current system is totally flawed and too subjective.
watch this space...
-
A lot of vendors require FE so their funds aren't tied up in the escrow system, at least those not scamming people. I was thinking, instead of requiring FE there could be a system where half the funds were sent directly to the vendor and the other half sat in escrow upon arrival
For example: Say I wanted to order a lb that costs $3000. I would send $1500 to the seller and once I got the package, release the remainder of the payment.
You could still get scammed but at least you could still keep half of your money
-
A lot of vendors require FE so their funds aren't tied up in the escrow system, at least those not scamming people. I was thinking, instead of requiring FE there could be a system where half the funds were sent directly to the vendor and the other half sat in escrow upon arrival
For example: Say I wanted to order a lb that costs $3000. I would send $1500 to the seller and once I got the package, release the remainder of the payment.
You could still get scammed but at least you could still keep half of your money
Agree with you mate, in case of bulk orders customers should have an option to release half escrow but i think in small or medium orders, vendor should provide full escrow and should not ask to FE. In case of any problem resolution centre is always there for help.
-
A lot of vendors require FE so their funds aren't tied up in the escrow system, at least those not scamming people. I was thinking, instead of requiring FE there could be a system where half the funds were sent directly to the vendor and the other half sat in escrow upon arrival
For example: Say I wanted to order a lb that costs $3000. I would send $1500 to the seller and once I got the package, release the remainder of the payment.
You could still get scammed but at least you could still keep half of your money
Agree with you mate, in case of bulk orders customers should have an option to release half escrow but i think in small or medium orders, vendor should provide full escrow and should not ask to FE. In case of any problem resolution centre is always there for help.
That would be a good feature, like any sort of uncertain transactions, half upfront, half on delivery. At least in that instance the seller or buyer wouldnt be totally scammed.
-
I don't know. I buy from other sites, and buying from the Road feels like heaven in terms of security. The escrow system here is ironclad, whereas if you're trying to buy more, shall we say, contraband-ish items, you might not get much of a choice. I wouldn't want to see a half now/half after arrangement unless the bar was set pretty high in terms of order amount, or unless it only applied to items like forgeries.
I'm just tired of seeing vendors on the Road demanding FE for new buyers. Everyone starts somewhere, and there was a time when some customer took a chance with you, the vendor who prior to that sale had never had a single transaction. Then, they demand FE for free shipping. Then, FE for big orders. I saw one vendor who even said he's require FE if he "felt sketchy" about you. What the fuck-all does that mean? Did your PGP key smell like it missed a shower that morning? Either "don't FE" is a policy or it's just a recommendation. IMO, it's a great recommendation, and would make damn good *vendor* policy (as in, do NOT require FE, do not reward FE, etc.).
A lot of vendors require FE so their funds aren't tied up in the escrow system, at least those not scamming people.
And, the market will sort those people out. Either they'll be able to maintain cash flow while maintaining product delivery, or they will fail. There's no reason to fuck with the best thing going, certainly not to prop up a few flagging vendors (and, really, if they can't make shipping demands because of cash flow, they have bigger problems than escrow). There's a reason I bought my last (product description deleted) on the Road instead of from a HBB vendor.
Just my $0.02.
-
So the issue with older vendors asking for fe is that it incites them to selective scam? I dont see the issue here. Ultimately its up to the buyers to make a wise purchasing decision, SR cant control every aspect of the transaction process. There will always be sellers, experienced or not, that will scam people or maybe just make an error and not send a package, and there will always be buyers who claimed they didnt recieve it or it wasnt real drugs or something. I dont think there is any way to protect anyone against human error. A buyers greatest tool is the forums and for what its worth the feedback system. A sellers greatest tool is one again the vendor forums and the buyers stats. If a transaction requires FE to commence and the buyer feels its worth the risk then thats the choice they make, and if a seller is so insecure about SR that he requires FE from most of his buyers then he will find himself in a very small market.
The main issue people are having is the fact that buyers are so conditioned to feedback ratings from the likes of ebay and amazon that they dont take the time to check the forums and educate themselves. Does this really effect vendor sales? Perhaps, but who does it really turn off, the educated buyer or the lazy one? I can tell you one thing for sure, one of those buyers costs alot more to deal with than the other.
-
The main issue people are having is the fact that buyers are so conditioned to feedback ratings from the likes of ebay and amazon that they dont take the time to check the forums and educate themselves. Does this really effect vendor sales? Perhaps, but who does it really turn off, the educated buyer or the lazy one? I can tell you one thing for sure, one of those buyers costs alot more to deal with than the other.
Point well taken. From my own experience, however, I discovered what a rich source of information the forums are sometime after I placed my first few orders. I basically just read that wiki article that's made the rounds, and used that information to feel my way around. I don't know if my experience was typical of the new buyer, but the lesson I learned by feeling my way around was that you pretty much had to pay to play, i'e., you had to FE to make up for your shitty creds. But, they aren't shitty creds; they're just blank creds, and there's a difference. After a couple of false starts, I finally found a vendor who was just filling his first orders on the Road. As a new vendor, he was happy to have a customer, and the prospect of a successful transaction was more powerful than his fear about my newness. I placed two orders with him, and then things started getting easier.
The point I'm making is that the newbie isn't necessarily lazy, but he is surely uneducated. He's more likely to get scammed at every stage of the game, from buying BTCs to making purchases. Changing the escrow system isn't going to help him one bit, and will probably hurt him. If half your money is already gone, anyway, and the vendor promises the moon if you release the other half, you're going to be more likely to FE than if the single, unified message across SR is "generally speaking, never FE."