Silk Road forums

Support => Feature requests => Topic started by: Sixes on December 25, 2012, 11:05 am

Title: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: Sixes on December 25, 2012, 11:05 am
Hi SR,

This suggestion is related to this forum thread on shipping through Aussie customs that I think is very important to the future of all stealth shipping on SR: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=94730.0

Currently buyers can give vendors a feedback score but the overwhelming attitude is that 5/5s should be given even if orders do not arrive, if the vendor makes it right. I feel bad giving a vendor other than a 5/5 if the vendor is friendly and gives a partial refund, however, am I really happy with this transaction? Fuck no! Why are vendors who can't get their product through customs still getting perfect feedback?

The massive problem here is that as buyers we cannot easily see a difference in shipping success rates between different vendors. This could be easily resolved by adding a few more simple vendor stats:

The normal 1-5 scale for overall transaction plus written feedback would still stay, Plus:

International order? Yes/No

Did your order arrive? Yes/No

On the vendor page the shipping success rate for domestic and international would be displayed.

This would be absolutely amazing, especially for those of us in Australia. Properly packed orders do consistently arrive here, but vendor stealth is just not up to scratch in most cases and I would love to be able to spend my money on the vendors that are putting in an effort to package well.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: HOUSE on December 25, 2012, 05:43 pm
I think it's a great idea.

Better information provided at the feedback stage means buyers can make well-informed decisions, and the more standardised the feedback is (yes/no questions or ratings rather than comments), the better. I find the current feedback system to be somewhat lacking, and in many cases one has to sift through tons of forum posts in order to determine how reliable a vendor really is (as regards everything not just shipping - product quality and so on as well).

I also don't agree with giving a 5/5 for packages which did not arrive. The vendor is partly (if not fully) responsible for non-arrivals. Why do certain vendors have much higher success rates than others, if not for the fact that their packaging is better?
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: TheYowie on December 25, 2012, 10:52 pm

The normal 1-5 scale for overall transaction plus written feedback would still stay, Plus:

International order? Yes/No

Did your order arrive? Yes/No

On the vendor page the shipping success rate for domestic and international would be displayed.

This would be absolutely amazing, especially for those of us in Australia. Properly packed orders do consistently arrive here, but vendor stealth is just not up to scratch in most cases and I would love to be able to spend my money on the vendors that are putting in an effort to package well.

What do you think?

The beauty in this after much head scratching is that it's just so simple to implement.

Difficulties I see is the possibility of vendors putting up 'easy' listings to skew the results.  It also doesn't allow for nuances - for example, if a vendor has issues with larger shipments but is good with smaller shipments, or variations in the difficulties in shipping one product over another.  There could also be a knee-jerk reaction from vendors, where they just get defensive and stop shipping to where their current levels of packaging no longer work effectively.

Regardless of these things, shipping is a safety issue which for too long has been seen as an inconvenience to vendors, and not a core part of their business.  Standards are not improving and something has to be done.

I think this simple rating system is a huge step forward in getting vendors to actively think about their reputations for the quality of their shipping methods, and also to show that buyer safety is a top priority.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: jnemonic on December 25, 2012, 11:33 pm
If i was really interested in getting a nice amount of a certain product from O/S, i would ask the vendor to put it in something which would easily conceal the contents and not show up on xray. So letters wouldnt work. I think a small investment from the buyer and vendor to ensure delivery is guaranteed, might or should be an option?
By the sounds of things things need to be stepped up. I think with the prices of stuff from overseas being so cheap, it wont hurt to spend more on what the actual product is to be concealed in.

So if i was a vendor, and selling O/S, i would be doing things a little differently..

Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: asd on December 25, 2012, 11:38 pm
I really like this idea, minus one thought that I've had.

That would be the fact that it requires a small questionnaire to be filled out after every order, for the customer. This could be solved by adding the survey as an option rather than a necessity. My reasoning for this is because if the extra questions were added to the feedback page, it would make people feel like they had to put in more work than they feel is needed.

This is a great idea and I'm sure people would appreciate the heads up on what a vendor excels and lacks at, but there should be a better way to implement an idea like this rather than adding a questionnaire.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: jnemonic on December 25, 2012, 11:54 pm
I think its best to just communicate with the vendor, tell them your concerns and also ideas for safer packaging, etc.

Tell them your happy to pay extra to have them put into something different..i wont give an example here, but just think outside the box.

If it was you sending them to yourself, how would you do it? Once you have a certain idea, mention it to the vendor.

If they dont want to play then find someone else. If they agree, then your sorted.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: Sixes on December 26, 2012, 02:27 am
I think its best to just communicate with the vendor, tell them your concerns and also ideas for safer packaging, etc.

Tell them your happy to pay extra to have them put into something different..i wont give an example here, but just think outside the box.

If it was you sending them to yourself, how would you do it? Once you have a certain idea, mention it to the vendor.

If they dont want to play then find someone else. If they agree, then your sorted.

Do you have personal experience with getting vendors to do this, or are you just speculating?

Personally if I wanted to get a larger amount through customs I would be very hesitant to put it all in one package. At the moment I'd rather split it up for safety, so at least some makes it though. I would have to be very confident in a vendors shipping to put all my eggs in one basket.

ASD: You think that two yes/no check boxes added to the existing feedback would make a significant difference to the effort buyers need to put in to filling out feedback?
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: TheYowie on December 26, 2012, 09:39 am
I've asked for better stealth a couple of times, and on both occasions got the "We've had hundreds of successful deliveries, why would be change our methods just for you?".  I even offered to pay extra for it.

The translation to that is - We're complacent and we don't care, and not enough people have complained about it.

Once enough noise is being made, we'll have the smart opportunistic sellers step up with improved services, and they'll drag the rest of the fuckers up who don't give a shit after the letter leaves their hands.

And yeah, this includes a heck of a lot of established sellers.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: geeza23 on December 26, 2012, 12:36 pm
I really hope this post and the ones about shipping gets the attention of sellers because there is seriously so much business potentially in the overseas market too from a vendor point of view. and as customers we get the peace of mind that whatever we're ordering have a high chance of coming through instead of fretting about it like we do for the lottery
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: asd on December 27, 2012, 12:18 am
Sixes; That would be a good way to get around that problem. I assumed the OP was talking about additional "Leave Feedback Here" text boxes.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: mracid on December 30, 2012, 10:41 am
You should check out my listing. I only have MDMA at the moment, but in the next couple of weeks will have LSD and Ketamine  as well.

I offer a stealth packet shipping option, which is really worth the extra cost, and I don't make money on it, the package costs me the same to make!

I was a vendor before under 4sale, but had to leave the road. Now im back and im offering 0.5 gram MDMA for samples. I highly recommend that you check it out, and be sure to opt for stealth packet!

I would love to hear what you think of the packaging, it had 100% success rate world wide before, and I'm confident that I can replicate that again.

Happy New Year

http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/4f6ee73a39
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: Sixes on December 31, 2012, 05:23 am
I'm not going to buy from anyone that spams my thread. This is about a suggestion for the feedback system not promoting your products.

Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: paxous on December 31, 2012, 03:32 pm
I really hope this post and the ones about shipping gets the attention of sellers because there is seriously so much business potentially in the overseas market too from a vendor point of view. and as customers we get the peace of mind that whatever we're ordering have a high chance of coming through instead of fretting about it like we do for the lottery

exacly!!! this would make the sellers and buyers much more calm about shiping.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: TheYowie on January 04, 2013, 03:35 am
Okay mods, what's happening with this?

It's getting to the point where vendor shipping practices are falling behind what is required to actually ship small amounts of product overseas.  Something needs to be done.

Sizes, have you tried PMing some mods directly about this?
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: fredflintstone on January 04, 2013, 03:37 am
I agree with the 5/5 problem on packs not arriving.

If your pack doesnt arrive by loss to customs or whatever, its not a perfect transaction. Even if the seller refunds the money, that should be a 3/5. The money was tied up for weeks and you didnt get what you ordered. Thats not a 5/5.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: tor12345 on January 04, 2013, 06:30 am
How much are people willing to pay for steath shipping? As a US based person who mostly orders domestic, it seems unneeded in most cases. First, I don't think I'm getting in too much trouble for the amounts I'm ordering, if I even get a visit at all. Second, if I order a $100 item and steath adds 15% to the cost, it's not really worth it to me. Do other US based buyters share this thought or would you guys like to see other options for US to US? I guess I've never really run into a vendor with terrible shipping and that might make me a little biased. I tend to use more established vendors that have good reviews.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: Sixes on January 05, 2013, 07:38 pm
Okay mods, what's happening with this?

It's getting to the point where vendor shipping practices are falling behind what is required to actually ship small amounts of product overseas.  Something needs to be done.

Sizes, have you tried PMing some mods directly about this?

I actually sent this to SR support via contact us before posting here. Was advised posting here was the best option.


How much are people willing to pay for steath shipping? As a US based person who mostly orders domestic, it seems unneeded in most cases. First, I don't think I'm getting in too much trouble for the amounts I'm ordering, if I even get a visit at all. Second, if I order a $100 item and steath adds 15% to the cost, it's not really worth it to me. Do other US based buyters share this thought or would you guys like to see other options for US to US? I guess I've never really run into a vendor with terrible shipping and that might make me a little biased. I tend to use more established vendors that have good reviews.

I agree completely, this is definitely not needed on domestic orders (in any country I believe), there's no issue with stealth there as nothing is seized unless a major mistake is made. This is definitely to benefit the people ordering internationally to countries with tough customs. I believe this does make up a significant portion of the users here.

As for how much people pay for extra stealth? You only need to look at domestic prices in some countries compared to overseas to see that people would be willing to pay BIG bucks if they knew their packages would make it through - I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: samesamebutdifferent on January 06, 2013, 04:32 am
TheYowie and Sixes are doing great work here in bringing this to the forums in a considered and factual manner. I have been bumping several threads on this topic for weeks now and it seems like we are finally building some momentum so lets keep the pressure up and not get discouraged.

Personally I would definitely pay a premium for a stealth shipping option that was actually stealth and not just vac sealed and thrown into an envelope.

We need to keep this thread bumped daily and keep contacting the mods and admins to get this recognized as a real issue that needs sorting out for the good of everyone.

I work with one particular vendor who has been somewhat open to accommodating my requests but I doubt they would go for some of the measures we are asking for here. Simple reason they can sell their inventory domestically and only sell o/s to me and a few others because we asked so nicely, I even FE for this vendor but they are one of the very few who actually sell high quality product of my drug of choice, its the risk I take to get decent gear.

We need to plan a strategy on how to progress this... I will throw my hat into the ring to help in anyway considered useful.

We have started the ball rolling...

Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: NotMe123 on January 06, 2013, 05:04 am
I agree with the 5/5 problem on packs not arriving.

If your pack doesnt arrive by loss to customs or whatever, its not a perfect transaction. Even if the seller refunds the money, that should be a 3/5. The money was tied up for weeks and you didnt get what you ordered. Thats not a 5/5.

i agree with above post  x2
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: Sixes on January 08, 2013, 01:14 pm
I agree with the 5/5 problem on packs not arriving.

If your pack doesnt arrive by loss to customs or whatever, its not a perfect transaction. Even if the seller refunds the money, that should be a 3/5. The money was tied up for weeks and you didnt get what you ordered. Thats not a 5/5.

i agree with above post  x2

Definitely agree, however I don't have any optimism about changing the way people leave feedback - it's not going to happen.

We can get this feedback by adding the extra field relating to whether the package actually arrived.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: Howabsurd91 on January 09, 2013, 04:56 am
Great suggestions in here... I like the idea of a more detailed feedback slot.

I think that if a buyer doesn't receive the package and only receives 50% or less of a refund, that the transaction would not warrant a 5/5 feedback... but I often feel pressure to give 5/5 as to not completely mess up the seller's rating. I agree that separate parts of feedback is a possible solution.

I hope your suggestions get enough attention for something to be implemented sometime in the future...would be great!
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: livestr0ng on January 11, 2013, 09:26 pm
YES! I'm not the only one who thinks people are too easy in giving a 5 rating. I read about someone who didn't receive his package and got a 25% refund leave a 5. That kind of stuff is absurd. According to Netflix, 1-Hated it, 2-Didn't like it, 3-Liked it, 4-Really liked it, 5-Loved it. Being "nice" when leaving ratings isn't helping anyone except the vendor who may or may not deserve it. I vote for the "was your order international?" and "did your package arrive?" check boxes when leaving feedback! Also, buyers should be able to see this similar to how vendors can see buyers' stats.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: Snotsnot on January 22, 2013, 01:30 am
Thats really a great idear, would help out alot when you are selecting your vendor.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: dbz4u on January 22, 2013, 02:00 am
I really like this idea, minus one thought that I've had.

That would be the fact that it requires a small questionnaire to be filled out after every order, for the customer. This could be solved by adding the survey as an option rather than a necessity. My reasoning for this is because if the extra questions were added to the feedback page, it would make people feel like they had to put in more work than they feel is needed.

This is a great idea and I'm sure people would appreciate the heads up on what a vendor excels and lacks at, but there should be a better way to implement an idea like this rather than adding a questionnaire.

A poll would be a good idea. That way the verbal descriptions are of the product, but you can see the satisfaction numbers per category. I'd like a better breakdown as well
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: fredflintstone on January 23, 2013, 10:31 am
I saw this feedback today and it blew my mind

5/5 - Deceived me completely ended up just getting a random refund from him so i guess im getting nothing

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT ?!?!? 5/5 for deception, non delivery and time wasting.

I pride myself on 100+ transactions with 5/5 .. that has meant reships on post office mishaps, family theft of mail, college's losing shit on top of normally good service. And THIS is a 5/5 ? Blow me lol
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: nanpa2001 on January 24, 2013, 06:46 am
I agree with the 5/5 problem on packs not arriving.

If your pack doesnt arrive by loss to customs or whatever, its not a perfect transaction. Even if the seller refunds the money, that should be a 3/5. The money was tied up for weeks and you didnt get what you ordered. Thats not a 5/5.

But buyers are pressured not to leave that kind of feedback, and it is also left up to subjective evaluation.

When a buyer gets refunded, there is nothing subjective about that statistic. Vendors use it to weed out the bad buyers.

A yes/no statistic on package arrival would work the same way. Not subjective at all, just yes or no. Also, the statistic should be weighted on the dollar value of the transaction. That way vendors will not be able to effectively pad their yes/no statistics with small successful transactions, either legitimate or fake.

I am in a situation where I have made significant purchases from top rated vendors (around $1200) and none of the packages have come through to multiple addresses (Australia). I only found out later that the vendors I dealt with are not really confident that their 'stealth packaging' will make it through Australia customs.

This has been resolved with a partial, 50% repayment, and I am inclined to leave 5/5 because their customer service was decent, but it feels deceptive for other buyers unless it is clear that the package didn't arrive. Even if I leave a comment in relation to that, it will be unlikely to be noticed. Arrival yes/no should be a separate part of the rating.

A yes/no statistic will also make it a lot easier to spot selective scamming, or a nascent planned disappearance.

DPR/Silk Road administration, bring in the yes/no statistic with alacrity!
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: sbmafia on January 25, 2013, 02:08 pm
very interesting guys
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: EntityCreature on February 03, 2013, 04:31 pm
Very interesting read, folks!

I for one would like to see this happen sometime soon, these are good suggestions. This post seems to have good back-up so with a little more psychological advantage, we can do this!


Entity
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: samesamebutdifferent on February 04, 2013, 01:13 am
I agree with the 5/5 problem on packs not arriving.

If your pack doesnt arrive by loss to customs or whatever, its not a perfect transaction. Even if the seller refunds the money, that should be a 3/5. The money was tied up for weeks and you didnt get what you ordered. Thats not a 5/5.

But buyers are pressured not to leave that kind of feedback, and it is also left up to subjective evaluation.

When a buyer gets refunded, there is nothing subjective about that statistic. Vendors use it to weed out the bad buyers.

A yes/no statistic on package arrival would work the same way. Not subjective at all, just yes or no. Also, the statistic should be weighted on the dollar value of the transaction. That way vendors will not be able to effectively pad their yes/no statistics with small successful transactions, either legitimate or fake.

I am in a situation where I have made significant purchases from top rated vendors (around $1200) and none of the packages have come through to multiple addresses (Australia). I only found out later that the vendors I dealt with are not really confident that their 'stealth packaging' will make it through Australia customs.

This has been resolved with a partial, 50% repayment, and I am inclined to leave 5/5 because their customer service was decent, but it feels deceptive for other buyers unless it is clear that the package didn't arrive. Even if I leave a comment in relation to that, it will be unlikely to be noticed. Arrival yes/no should be a separate part of the rating.

A yes/no statistic will also make it a lot easier to spot selective scamming, or a nascent planned disappearance.

DPR/Silk Road administration, bring in the yes/no statistic with alacrity!

Just a bit of advise that you have probably already adopted anyway but I always enter into a dialogue with the vendor before I order and suss out their packaging techniques. Some vendors are not interested in discussing this and if that's the case I don't order.

In my experience I have found certain types of packaging from certain countries stands a good chance of clearing customs so unless I know it's going to be packaged as per my requirements its not worth ordering. This also gives you a good feel for how receptive the vendor is to responding to comms etc, very slow responses or terse, rude replies are also a turn off.

The type of stealth that works is no secret so vendors should not be adverse to discussing options with you, if they can't be bothered then I take my business to one who can.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: Sixes on February 19, 2013, 10:53 am
I agree with the 5/5 problem on packs not arriving.

If your pack doesnt arrive by loss to customs or whatever, its not a perfect transaction. Even if the seller refunds the money, that should be a 3/5. The money was tied up for weeks and you didnt get what you ordered. Thats not a 5/5.

But buyers are pressured not to leave that kind of feedback, and it is also left up to subjective evaluation.

When a buyer gets refunded, there is nothing subjective about that statistic. Vendors use it to weed out the bad buyers.

A yes/no statistic on package arrival would work the same way. Not subjective at all, just yes or no. Also, the statistic should be weighted on the dollar value of the transaction. That way vendors will not be able to effectively pad their yes/no statistics with small successful transactions, either legitimate or fake.

I am in a situation where I have made significant purchases from top rated vendors (around $1200) and none of the packages have come through to multiple addresses (Australia). I only found out later that the vendors I dealt with are not really confident that their 'stealth packaging' will make it through Australia customs.

This has been resolved with a partial, 50% repayment, and I am inclined to leave 5/5 because their customer service was decent, but it feels deceptive for other buyers unless it is clear that the package didn't arrive. Even if I leave a comment in relation to that, it will be unlikely to be noticed. Arrival yes/no should be a separate part of the rating.

A yes/no statistic will also make it a lot easier to spot selective scamming, or a nascent planned disappearance.

DPR/Silk Road administration, bring in the yes/no statistic with alacrity!

Just a bit of advise that you have probably already adopted anyway but I always enter into a dialogue with the vendor before I order and suss out their packaging techniques. Some vendors are not interested in discussing this and if that's the case I don't order.

In my experience I have found certain types of packaging from certain countries stands a good chance of clearing customs so unless I know it's going to be packaged as per my requirements its not worth ordering. This also gives you a good feel for how receptive the vendor is to responding to comms etc, very slow responses or terse, rude replies are also a turn off.

The type of stealth that works is no secret so vendors should not be adverse to discussing options with you, if they can't be bothered then I take my business to one who can.

The thing that annoys me is that I know some vendors have knowledge that some packaging methods work better than others, but I haven't been able to find a single one that would give me any rough statistics on one type vs the other (I have excellent buyer stats so no reason they wouldn't deal with me). I know these vendors ship both ways and in my experience the difference in success is pretty big so they must notice a difference.

I've now got a pretty good idea on the kind of shipping that gets through, but it's cost me a fortune to learn.

Also - bump - I still think this is a good idea to improve shipping!
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: nanpa2001 on February 23, 2013, 02:51 pm
I am also prepared to pay more for good stealth.

MedicalM mentioned something about buying the new stealth packaging, and I will be ordering again from them next month so I will be able to see what they have done.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: masterblaster on February 26, 2013, 06:51 am
I support the additional feedback parameters, but when it comes to vendors providing "stealth shipping" i dont believe this should be an option, all shipping should be as stealthy as possible and anything less is a total disregard for ones customer base. Let the market sort out the sellers who are too lazy to run a competent business.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: nanpa2001 on March 23, 2013, 12:38 am
I agree with the 5/5 problem on packs not arriving.

If your pack doesnt arrive by loss to customs or whatever, its not a perfect transaction. Even if the seller refunds the money, that should be a 3/5. The money was tied up for weeks and you didnt get what you ordered. Thats not a 5/5.

But buyers are pressured not to leave that kind of feedback, and it is also left up to subjective evaluation.

When a buyer gets refunded, there is nothing subjective about that statistic. Vendors use it to weed out the bad buyers.

A yes/no statistic on package arrival would work the same way. Not subjective at all, just yes or no. Also, the statistic should be weighted on the dollar value of the transaction. That way vendors will not be able to effectively pad their yes/no statistics with small successful transactions, either legitimate or fake.

I am in a situation where I have made significant purchases from top rated vendors (around $1200) and none of the packages have come through to multiple addresses (Australia). I only found out later that the vendors I dealt with are not really confident that their 'stealth packaging' will make it through Australia customs.

This has been resolved with a partial, 50% repayment, and I am inclined to leave 5/5 because their customer service was decent, but it feels deceptive for other buyers unless it is clear that the package didn't arrive. Even if I leave a comment in relation to that, it will be unlikely to be noticed. Arrival yes/no should be a separate part of the rating.

A yes/no statistic will also make it a lot easier to spot selective scamming, or a nascent planned disappearance.

DPR/Silk Road administration, bring in the yes/no statistic with alacrity!

Well now... It seems like the Atlantis Market ( [CENSORED: scam link]rky4es5q.onion ) is going to implement the YES/NO statistic. I have been banging on here for months about this. Perhaps this will bring SR administration out of it's complacency.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: maxhavelaar on March 30, 2013, 12:54 am
I agree with the 5/5 problem on packs not arriving.

If your pack doesnt arrive by loss to customs or whatever, its not a perfect transaction. Even if the seller refunds the money, that should be a 3/5. The money was tied up for weeks and you didnt get what you ordered. Thats not a 5/5.

I think this is a good idea and i argued fora mandatory 3/5 out of every settlement

But buyers are pressured not to leave that kind of feedback, and it is also left up to subjective evaluation.

When a buyer gets refunded, there is nothing subjective about that statistic. Vendors use it to weed out the bad buyers.

A yes/no statistic on package arrival would work the same way. Not subjective at all, just yes or no. Also, the statistic should be weighted on the dollar value of the transaction. That way vendors will not be able to effectively pad their yes/no statistics with small successful transactions, either legitimate or fake.

I am in a situation where I have made significant purchases from top rated vendors (around $1200) and none of the packages have come through to multiple addresses (Australia). I only found out later that the vendors I dealt with are not really confident that their 'stealth packaging' will make it through Australia customs.

This has been resolved with a partial, 50% repayment, and I am inclined to leave 5/5 because their customer service was decent, but it feels deceptive for other buyers unless it is clear that the package didn't arrive. Even if I leave a comment in relation to that, it will be unlikely to be noticed. Arrival yes/no should be a separate part of the rating.

A yes/no statistic will also make it a lot easier to spot selective scamming, or a nascent planned disappearance.

DPR/Silk Road administration, bring in the yes/no statistic with alacrity!

Well now... It seems like the Atlantis Market ( [CENSORED: scam link]rky4es5q.onion ) is going to implement the YES/NO statistic. I have been banging on here for months about this. Perhaps this will bring SR administration out of it's complacency.

As soon as they make payments in BTC possible and not only LiteCoin then I'm sure they will be more popular.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: reich on March 31, 2013, 11:41 am
I agree with the 5/5 problem on packs not arriving.

If your pack doesnt arrive by loss to customs or whatever, its not a perfect transaction. Even if the seller refunds the money, that should be a 3/5. The money was tied up for weeks and you didnt get what you ordered. Thats not a 5/5.

I know I'm going against the grain here massively but you need to look at all situations from both points of view, vendor and buyer. While you think 3 out of 5 is fair for an order that doesn't show up and is refunded you forget how much such a rating ruins a vendor's selling rank & percentage which highly affect the number of customers we get. Yes your money has been tied up for 2 weeks or whatever but so has the vendors, do you think we like having a transaction drag on for ages then have to send either even more product or refund the buyer only for them to give us what is normally considered a bad rating for doing everything we possibly can to resolve the situation in a good manner?

The thing that annoys me is that I know some vendors have knowledge that some packaging methods work better than others, but I haven't been able to find a single one that would give me any rough statistics on one type vs the other (I have excellent buyer stats so no reason they wouldn't deal with me). I know these vendors ship both ways and in my experience the difference in success is pretty big so they must notice a difference.

I've now got a pretty good idea on the kind of shipping that gets through, but it's cost me a fortune to learn.

Also - bump - I still think this is a good idea to improve shipping!

The reason why vendors don't want to disclose their packaging or success rate is because information like that takes a while to build up and in a market like this is a closely guarded secret. It's the same reason established vendors don't disclose how they get their money out of the site or who their sources are. If a vendor discloses he gets a good success rate and then another vendor posing as a buyer orders from him and thinks "ah thats a good idea, I'm going to do that too" the original vendor has now reduced the chance of his orders getting through and eroded part of reason why buyers came to him in the first place.

To the guy who said he offers extra money to vendors to package in a certain way you have to remember time is money to us, if getting the materials you require, learning how to package the order correctly and then dispatching it takes me 2-3 hours the compensation you offer has to match how much money the vendor normally makes in that time. For a new vendor that might not be a problem but if you're an established vendor it can be quite a lot. It is also worth considering that the packaging methods you're suggesting may be a waste of time as there is a lot of misinformation on the forums about what helps packages arrive. For example I've had buyers ask me to hide orders inside birthday cards before and I normally refuse because it's a waste of my time to do this. It won't impact at all in if customs detects the order and as we already offer stealth options for people who want to internally conceal an order we don't see the need to specially tailor one just for one customer.

I don't think you should get a "did the order arrive Yes/no" because if it is publicly visible it's another way that customs staff can target sellers who have high success rates to show their bosses that they're doing something measurable to prevent us.

That said I'm just giving the flip side of the coin here.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: Sixes on April 02, 2013, 02:23 pm
I understand your point, and it's a good one.

There is no way for us to hold vendors accountable for their shipping practices, and reward the good ones, without also making it obvious to LE who is getting stuff through - true.

However right now there are tonnes of vendors out there either not sending, or sending with shit stealth who are getting away with it. I'd much rather it be visible so we can reward the good vendors and stay away from the shit ones.

The good vendors will be able to change up shipping regularly to avoid profiling.
Title: Re: Suggestion that will VASTLY improve shipping practices
Post by: ld55 on April 03, 2013, 11:35 pm
I agree completely with the OP.

There is a huge need for the collection and display of objective data about transactions. The 'success rate' statistic should be available on a per-vendor and per-item basis, and the ability to split this up by destination country would be nice as well. A 'detailed statistics' page could be available for each item and vendor, with all this info displayed. Maybe some nice graphs of how all these statistics have changed over time as well?

And even SR-wide success rate statistics. These could be split up by product type, country, etc too, and of course graphs of how these statistics change over time.