Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: AbraCadaver on April 08, 2012, 11:33 am
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/07/war-drugs-latin-american-leaders
Come on everyone, just one last push
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everyone knows it but certain govs and corps make far to much money out of it for it to change,it would stop the flow of slaves for the usa private prison complex which aint allowed either,it may cost tax payers shit loads but why would that concern em thats what they want coz there companies get that coin ,for the powers that be its fine how it is
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I'm starting to see how you picked up those negative karma points, LHS
NEXT
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I'm starting to see how you picked up those negative karma points, LHS
NEXT
Meh , but the reality is we're not winning .
There have been many many reports/reviews about the fact that the " War On Drugs" is not working by objective/intelligent ppl with no axe to grind . We all know that legalization is the way to go for every reason you can think of but drugs and the ppl that use drugs (except booze 'n' fags ) have been demonized to the point that it will not happen . I could write a 10,000 word essay on this , back it up with facts , stats , statments, empirical evidence from health care professionals but it would make no difference . It is political suicide for any party to suggest legalization of even the most common narcotic ( cannabis ) . Hopefully this will change but I can't see it happening any time soon . I've tried to engage ppl on the tabloid level ,
Ok , so a crack addict needs £150 a day to support their habit and they burgle to that money . The maths goes :- new goods resold second hand get approx 1/2 of original cost , stolen goods get approx 1/2 of their value . Now these are VERY optimistic figures but we already up to £600 of goods per day to buy something that costs less than 10% of that at source .So shouldn't we try different route to deal this because what we are doing now plainly does not work ?. ( there is a lot more that goes in here , damage limitation , intervention, help/info/health care at point sale) . And ppl just don't want to know *sigh* I think/thought education was the key to most of societies ills but the more I see the nihlistic I get .
BTW . The "known " universe is 93 BILLION light years across ( google how far light travels in a year ) and you expect me to believe not only was is it created by a being that watches our every move during our life ( don't get me started about how tiny our 70 years are in the grand design of things) and then judges us after death . Get the fuck outta here , we need to move on from this howling at the moon shit . HAPPY EASTER :-))
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Excellent post HappyHippy. I agree 100%.
Also, it's a pleasure to see a celebrity such as yourself posting here. ;) ;D
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Excellent post HappyHippy. I agree 100%.
Also, it's a pleasure to see a celebrity such as yourself posting here. ;) ;D
Hehe I'll assume you talking about the Sun on Sunday article . I'm a small vendor , I didn't need the exposure and it freaked the hell outta me . I've considered running the next lot as " As Seen In The Sun " but do I really wanna piss off News International :-)
HH
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Fuck yeah! :D
On a serious note, I bet it freaked you out quite a bit. I wouldn't worry too much though, i'm sure nothing will come of it. I get the feeling the UK government will have bigger things to worry about this year than drugs. ;)
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Fuck yeah! :D
On a serious note, I bet it freaked you out quite a bit. I wouldn't worry too much though, i'm sure nothing will come of it. I get the feeling the UK government will have bigger things to worry about this year than drugs. ;)
You aint kidding .
I'm like ...................
Ok so the chances of fingerprints are really slim ( we all make mistakes ) , possible dna ( stray hair ) but I'm not easlly tracable to this address . Would the Police want this file anyway with the whole political shit storm around the murdoch empire , how long does it take to get dna results back , if I'm still replying to posts in 15 days I reckon you can say I'm clear .
:-))
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I'm starting to see how you picked up those negative karma points, LHS
NEXT
Meh , but the reality is we're not winning .
There have been many many reports/reviews about the fact that the " War On Drugs" is not working by objective/intelligent ppl with no axe to grind . We all know that legalization is the way to go for every reason you can think of but drugs and the ppl that use drugs (except booze 'n' fags ) have been demonized to the point that it will not happen . I could write a 10,000 word essay on this , back it up with facts , stats , statments, empirical evidence from health care professionals but it would make no difference . It is political suicide for any party to suggest legalization of even the most common narcotic ( cannabis ) . Hopefully this will change but I can't see it happening any time soon . I've tried to engage ppl on the tabloid level ,
Ok , so a crack addict needs £150 a day to support their habit and they burgle to that money . The maths goes :- new goods resold second hand get approx 1/2 of original cost , stolen goods get approx 1/2 of their value . Now these are VERY optimistic figures but we already up to £600 of goods per day to buy something that costs less than 10% of that at source .So shouldn't we try different route to deal this because what we are doing now plainly does not work ?. ( there is a lot more that goes in here , damage limitation , intervention, help/info/health care at point sale) . And ppl just don't want to know *sigh* I think/thought education was the key to most of societies ills but the more I see the nihlistic I get .
BTW . The "known " universe is 93 BILLION light years across ( google how far light travels in a year ) and you expect me to believe not only was is it created by a being that watches our every move during our life ( don't get me started about how tiny our 70 years are in the grand design of things) and then judges us after death . Get the fuck outta here , we need to move on from this howling at the moon shit . HAPPY EASTER :-))
No, I disagree with you profoundly
You are entirely correct about the facts you've stated, but you're still thinking the way you used to think before Silk Road disrupted the traditional model for buying contraband.
But I don't think you've thought through how much the governments fear this new model (I don't know whether anyone's noticed, but the trolls here on SR forums are abundant and, frankly, crap. They're scared).
It's a complete waste of time and resources to arrest people for personal amounts going through the post. It's also a waste of time and resources to intercept and destroy small amounts. Factor in the current economic and political climate, and this amounts to de facto decriminalization. Law enforcement are aware that several drug crimes are taking place, and they know where to look and who to arrest. But the practicalities of doing it are too much for the system as a whole to bear. The more people that use Silk Road, the more this effect will increase.
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I'm starting to see how you picked up those negative karma points, LHS
NEXT
Meh , but the reality is we're not winning .
There have been many many reports/reviews about the fact that the " War On Drugs" is not working by objective/intelligent ppl with no axe to grind . We all know that legalization is the way to go for every reason you can think of but drugs and the ppl that use drugs (except booze 'n' fags ) have been demonized to the point that it will not happen . I could write a 10,000 word essay on this , back it up with facts , stats , statments, empirical evidence from health care professionals but it would make no difference . It is political suicide for any party to suggest legalization of even the most common narcotic ( cannabis ) . Hopefully this will change but I can't see it happening any time soon . I've tried to engage ppl on the tabloid level ,
Ok , so a crack addict needs £150 a day to support their habit and they burgle to that money . The maths goes :- new goods resold second hand get approx 1/2 of original cost , stolen goods get approx 1/2 of their value . Now these are VERY optimistic figures but we already up to £600 of goods per day to buy something that costs less than 10% of that at source .So shouldn't we try different route to deal this because what we are doing now plainly does not work ?. ( there is a lot more that goes in here , damage limitation , intervention, help/info/health care at point sale) . And ppl just don't want to know *sigh* I think/thought education was the key to most of societies ills but the more I see the nihlistic I get .
BTW . The "known " universe is 93 BILLION light years across ( google how far light travels in a year ) and you expect me to believe not only was is it created by a being that watches our every move during our life ( don't get me started about how tiny our 70 years are in the grand design of things) and then judges us after death . Get the fuck outta here , we need to move on from this howling at the moon shit . HAPPY EASTER :-))
No, I disagree with you profoundly
You are entirely correct about the facts you've stated, but you're still thinking the way you used to think before Silk Road disrupted the traditional model for buying contraband.
But I don't think you've thought through how much the governments fear this new model (I don't know whether anyone's noticed, but the trolls here on SR forums are abundant and, frankly, crap. They're scared).
It's a complete waste of time and resources to arrest people for personal amounts going through the post. It's also a waste of time and resources to intercept and destroy small amounts. Factor in the current economic and political climate, and this amounts to de facto decriminalization. Law enforcement are aware that several drug crimes are taking place, and they know where to look and who to arrest. But the practicalities of doing it are too much for the system as a whole to bear. The more people that use Silk Road, the more this effect will increase.
I really hope you're right and I'm wrong :-)
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LE almost certainly know that I am receiving banned substances through the post. Why? Because a few months ago a 10 gram order of mine got stopped coming from outside my home country. This was from a reputable vendor with whom I have completed satisfactory orders subsequently.
BUT, instead of allowing this to scare me, I changed tactics. I started ordering much smaller amounts from within my home country instead. Very regularly. Every single one has come through. If they wanted to arrest me 10 times or more, they could have done. Ask yourselves this: why haven't they done it yet? Building a case? Each individual piece of evidence they have against me is just as weak as the others, the fact that there are several of them still does not constitute incontravertable evidence.
We have them over barrel. They can't bust Silk Road customer addresses because it would create alot of publicity and very few actual prosecutions, and publicity is clearly the very thing that the governments/LE do not want. They can't afford to keep confiscating thousands of packages with tiny amounts of drugs in them, as even confiscations with no arrests cost time and money.
I put it to you all again: we are winning.
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The fact of the matter is that governments just don't want to see that legalization is key! Of course all of us on here will be somewhat bias but this is my two cents anyway.
If drugs were to be legalized there would be many problems but there would also be many benefits like employment - this might sound funny or stupid but this is a serious point! Of course there would be the retailers (drug dealers) but this would then also create a demand for these products on a higher level and to maintain the supply for the demand, labs would be opened and farms specifically for growing drugs would also become a valuable industry. Companies that would specialize in recreational drugs such as those in the pharmaceutical industry like Pfizer etc. would also be formed.
This could very possibly lead to the end of poverty because the demand for drugs is so high as it is and if made legal the demand would be so much higher!
I don't believe that people would turn to crime to support their habits because as we all should know if it were to become legal the prices would drop dramatically as these drugs start being mass produced.
At the end of the day I feel that it is the individuals choice to put whatever substances they wish to into their own bodies provided they do not cause problems to anyone else - same as other legal drugs, i.e. alcohol - public intoxication and DUI. There would obviously also have to be laws, laws like the ones that control alcohol.
A lot of people die every year from alcohol and cigarettes so the fear of a large number of people ODing is irrelevant because people die from other legal substances too! I for one have lost my brother to a drunk and driving car accident!
Karma is always appreciated! ;)
Lloyd
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The only benefit of full legalization that Silk Road hasn't already achieved is price reduction
That I can think of, and only if you really know how to shop around, the benefits of Silk Road are:
- Consistent high quality (and no contaminants)
- Huge choice of varying product types and strengths (how hard is it to find someone IRL to get LSD or mescaline? Or to go out of your way to choose CBD rich non-skunk cannabis varieties, directly from South African farmers!)
- Honest vendors
- No waiting around on bleak street corners looking suspicious
- No getting messed around having been promised something for hours, only to get no call back
- No product droughts
I guess the post could be quicker, and even despite the prices, it's not a bad compromise overall. I'm pretty happy about it :D
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This place has a lot of benefits, but it is a drop in the ocean for the drug market. The traditional distribution model is still the dominant one, and I doubt this model will replace it because of it's inherent drawbacks, and there are many.
The Tor network itself is not untouchable, and I think that will be the first thing they go after, once they pass the "we have a right to spy on everybody" laws. How long before simply using these kind of networks becomes a criminal offense? Without meaning to sound like a conspiraloon, they want to control and monitor every aspect of our lives, and nothing makes them more nervous than people having the ability to communicate and organise in secret.
For all it's usefulness, I don't see this place as the ultimate answer. It's just somewhere to regroup before the next assault begins. The psychopaths that govern our lives are determined. They aren't the type to give up easily.
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I am also very determined, and I am not afraid
They cannot and will not ever prosecute Tor use: read the Tor project website.
The police, the government, journalists and all sorts of other respected public institutions the world over ALL USE TOR. It's an invaluable tool to them as much as it is to us, just for different reasons. It simply will not happen (or, if it does, we will definitely be living in an unambiguously authoritarian state. SR shutdown is then the least of our worries).
Although those ultimately in charge hold a lot of cards, they have more to lose from attempting to snuff this out than they do from letting it happen. The only control they can exercise at all is how quickly it spreads. That's it. Unless they want to start down the Bashaar Al-Assad route, of course.
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The bad guys will alwayes loose. The po po know ful well about this place and want to shut it the fuck down. It was fun while it lasted but the end is neigh for places like this, better stock up and hope the stazi dont break down your door looking for your "drugs". this was just an experiment and you better clean up your act before your in jail for recieving the goose that lays the golden egg.
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3 cheers for the president of Guatemala. I am happy to see that governments are starting to say publicly the things that they have known for years. The US government encourages other governments to take the same position they do on drugs and drug use. They also obligated the UN commission on Drugs and Crime to retract their statement saying that prohibition failed and legalization is a more reasonable solution.
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No prohibition means no mega cartels that can afford to bribe thousands of soldiers to defect and work for them. If getting caught with drugs doesn't mean a life sentence then no motivation for the gang member caught to shoot his way out, or murder informants, or blow up court rooms like they do in Guatemala/Mexico, or shoot customs agents.
Take their billion a week in drug profits away and they are left with petty racketeering and stealing truck loads like other mafia, not nearly enough to afford to float a giant private militia
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Man I dream of a day when I can do what drugs I want without fear of being a criminal. Sadly I think there are too many "squares and sobers" out there right now for change soon, they want you as fucked up and miserable as they are. We are outnumbered , but I hope for the future that something can rise up. Someday maybe..... keep the dream alive fellow SRers. Fight on.
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Man, everyone at that summit should take 200-250 mg of some good MDMA. They'll come to the right decision soon enough, and they'll achieve world peace.
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It's just going to take a long time. As some other poster said, no matter how 'right' it is, no politician in his right mind will come out in favor of decriminalizing drugs, not yet, and government is all bureaucracy, and moves so fucking slow. At these summits, from Arizona to Colombia, they are always saying that we have to 'rethink' prohibition, blah blah blah, but here, where we live, nothing gets changed. The best that happens, in 'liberal' states, is that you get to cry in front of a judge, and say you 'have a disease, your honor,' and get to go to treatment a couple of times, before you get locked up anyway.
Yeah, I'm bitter about it. I got addicted to heroin in an american war, and have never really shaken it, and have paid all the prices you pay, if you are a drug addict. Silk Road is the best thing that has really happened to me in a long time, but the hammer is still out there waiting, and I know how little defense I really have against it. I wish I wasn't a heroin addict, but I am one, and american notion that I am a criminal, (rather than someone to be pitied or scorned or simply fucking ignored), has caused for a tough life.
I know one thing: the U.S. will be the last one on the block to legalize, or even decriminalize this shit, so other than liberals yapping about it, I don't expect much to happen, not now, not for a long time...
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I wish I wasn't a heroin addict, but I am one, and american notion that I am a criminal, (rather than someone to be pitied or scorned or simply fucking ignored), has caused for a tough life.
Why do you feel ashamed of doing something you enjoy?
I would put it to you that it is the act of living the life of a heroin user under prohibition that has contrived to lead you to feel this way, and not anything inherent to heroin itself.
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in the end we will win the war on drugs....... we are to many and they are to few, there is no way this is ever going to be won by LE. the cat has been let out the bag, silkroad will continue to grow bigger and bigger its just a matter of time as the word spreads further and further, and even if my worst nightmare came true and silkroad ended there are thousands of people out there with the skills to start a new site, or even by our captain DRP :) this is never ever going to go away DRP has shown the world what is possible, i personally think internet drug sells are going to slowly take over the real dealing world cos its safer for both dealer and user.
SR is leading the way in to a new time of freedom for the people who choose for themselves to take these fun and exciting chemicals :) off there own free choice, the sooner the goverment realize the amount of tax that could be made from sales of drugs the better, if it was done properly it could end world poverty, if alcohol was invented today it would be band and made a class A drug. why cant we choose what we want to do with our own bodies? all we want is the right of free choice!
DRP you are my personal hero and i just love the way we are sticking our middle fingers up at the law and are saying NO we want our freedom :)
LONG LIVE SILKROAD :) :) :) :) :)
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i just love the way we are sticking our middle fingers up at the law and are saying NO we want our freedom :)
I'm on the law's side to an overwhelming extent; I want over-zealous cops chasing paedophiles and psychopathic murderers. That's exactly the sort of cop you want for that job.
But policing drug use at all is immoral. Legal drugs resold on Silk Road are just as prevalent as illegal ones. It puts the hypocrisy into perfect focus: that what you can buy on the street rates just as highly in the recreational drug users eyes as that which they could probably obtain a legitimate subscription for. In terms of both price and demand.
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im on the laws side when it comes to serious matters like murder ect and i think they do a good job when needed, but i cant support them on this matter, how can they say you cant smoke a plant that grows out of the ground, they only ever ban the exciting stuff if tomatoes got you high they would ban them.... why? we should be able to make a well informed choice to weather we want to put something in to our own bodies.....
its human nature to want to feel better than normal and want to use these drugs and party cos if not alcohol wouldnt sell
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I'm starting to see how you picked up those negative karma points, LHS
NEXT
Meh , but the reality is we're not winning .
There have been many many reports/reviews about the fact that the " War On Drugs" is not working by objective/intelligent ppl with no axe to grind . We all know that legalization is the way to go for every reason you can think of but drugs and the ppl that use drugs (except booze 'n' fags ) have been demonized to the point that it will not happen . I could write a 10,000 word essay on this , back it up with facts , stats , statments, empirical evidence from health care professionals but it would make no difference . It is political suicide for any party to suggest legalization of even the most common narcotic ( cannabis ) . Hopefully this will change but I can't see it happening any time soon . I've tried to engage ppl on the tabloid level ,
Ok , so a crack addict needs £150 a day to support their habit and they burgle to that money . The maths goes :- new goods resold second hand get approx 1/2 of original cost , stolen goods get approx 1/2 of their value . Now these are VERY optimistic figures but we already up to £600 of goods per day to buy something that costs less than 10% of that at source .So shouldn't we try different route to deal this because what we are doing now plainly does not work ?. ( there is a lot more that goes in here , damage limitation , intervention, help/info/health care at point sale) . And ppl just don't want to know *sigh* I think/thought education was the key to most of societies ills but the more I see the nihlistic I get .
BTW . The "known " universe is 93 BILLION light years across ( google how far light travels in a year ) and you expect me to believe not only was is it created by a being that watches our every move during our life ( don't get me started about how tiny our 70 years are in the grand design of things) and then judges us after death . Get the fuck outta here , we need to move on from this howling at the moon shit . HAPPY EASTER :-))
No, I disagree with you profoundly
You are entirely correct about the facts you've stated, but you're still thinking the way you used to think before Silk Road disrupted the traditional model for buying contraband.
But I don't think you've thought through how much the governments fear this new model (I don't know whether anyone's noticed, but the trolls here on SR forums are abundant and, frankly, crap. They're scared).
It's a complete waste of time and resources to arrest people for personal amounts going through the post. It's also a waste of time and resources to intercept and destroy small amounts. Factor in the current economic and political climate, and this amounts to de facto decriminalization. Law enforcement are aware that several drug crimes are taking place, and they know where to look and who to arrest. But the practicalities of doing it are too much for the system as a whole to bear. The more people that use Silk Road, the more this effect will increase.
Just playing the devil's advocate here... Do Governments fear this new model, or consider it a waste of time to arrest people for shipping personal amounts? I hope the latter.
Governments typically make great efforts and spare no expense to ANNIHILATE the things they fear.
OTOH, the daily interactions between people here on the Road are, realistically, nothing to be afraid of... Except to those people whose moral sensibilities are so eggshell fragile that the very concept of Silk Road would cause their world view to simply implode.
Senators Shumer, Manchin, et al, might just fall into the fragile category. You know, the guys that make laws in the US, and then try to force them on the rest of the world. :)
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Heard on npr today that guatemala was told basically "yeah right keep dreaming"
Pretty pathetic. Congress makes the laws for washington d.c., which has medical mj but then they send their thugs to california for the same stuff. It's illogical and downright maddening.
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Take operation fast and furious as an example.
The mexican cartels were basically allowed to transport 60,000 guns to mexico from the USA in "hopes of building a strong case against them to have them extradited and tried. Well, unfortunately, they lost track of over 40,000 of the guns, were only able to retrieve 20,000 by force (who knows the casualties) and over 500 people have been REPORTED of being killed from drug related crimes which could be tracked back to the guns WE sold them.
The TRUE profit isn't in control, it's in underhanded, tax avoidable, liability devoid transactions. There have been several investigations into the operation and some theories are yielding mexican cartels having bought out members of the force responsible for tracking the weapons, of course.
My point being, they make more money on the individual basis by NOT controlling it. If they controlled substances like marijuana and prescriptions with the same tenacity of mexico or the UK then the profit would follow the middlemen and hardly any of it would enter the hands of anybody else.
America is a capitalist country now which means the profits always end up in the hands of very few and a small amount of trickles down to other people. The only way this can change is by some huge organization, or strong voiced, well spoken, candidate to bring the reality to life. This can be done through graphs, papers and best of all, powerpoint presentations given on TV. But networks won't allow this because of the people up top demanding their "constituents" to obey or face the consequences.
Security or control, it's a fine line and one that one day I will hopefully expose for it's truth.
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Just playing the devil's advocate here... Do Governments fear this new model, or consider it a waste of time to arrest people for shipping personal amounts? I hope the latter.
Governments typically make great efforts and spare no expense to ANNIHILATE the things they fear.
Quite. Which is why I've just in the last day or so come to the conclusion that the governments do have one other broad category of (very desperate) option: engineering the mother of all "terrorist" attacks in order to exploit the panic using fast-tracked illiberal legislation (somewhere in Europe would probably be a good option strategically, hit the Bitcoin base).
This would all though, of course, requires a conspiracy of epic proportions. I'm just throwing it out there lol
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I wish I wasn't a heroin addict, but I am one, and american notion that I am a criminal, (rather than someone to be pitied or scorned or simply fucking ignored), has caused for a tough life.
Why do you feel ashamed of doing something you enjoy?
I would put it to you that it is the act of living the life of a heroin user under prohibition that has contrived to lead you to feel this way, and not anything inherent to heroin itself.
Oh, I'm not ashamed, just see how much of my life has been forfeit to this drug, and sure, it's mostly the legal problems that have caused all this. And yeah, I"m libertarian naturally, and if I were able, I'd get on heroin maintenance...not available to me...but no shame...
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Quite. Which is why I've just in the last day or so come to the conclusion that the governments do have one other broad category of (very desperate) option: engineering the mother of all "terrorist" attacks in order to exploit the panic using fast-tracked illiberal legislation (somewhere in Europe would probably be a good option strategically, hit the Bitcoin base).
This would all though, of course, requires a conspiracy of epic proportions. I'm just throwing it out there lol
This is a possibility, and although most would consider it far-fetched, I think something like this is likely at some point. I doubt that the government care about SR or bitcoin in particular, but they don't like people having the ability to communicate and organize in secret.
I don't think it would even take a "terror" event as a catalyst (although the olympics this year gives them an opportunity). With the stories in the national rags about the "dark web" and it's "drugs, weapons and child porn", public opinion may be weighted enough to allow them to pass laws restricting use of networks like tor without too much backlash. A few more drug death or child abuse stories could well be all it takes to invoke a clampdown, rather than a single big event.
Even if they don't/can't pass any specific laws to prevent tor use, I wonder how widespread it's use is in this country (UK), and what percentage of that is "legitimate"? Would it be technically unfeasible for the gov to get a list of all residential connections to tor from ISPs, run it though some pattern analysis stuff to find regular users, and match them up to a list containing occupations that could be seen as legitimate (cops, gov, journos etc). I wonder how large the remaining list would be? Too large for passive surveillance, or further checks?
You have to remember also that we are neighbours with some very unsavoury sites. You said yourself that:
I'm on the law's side to an overwhelming extent; I want over-zealous cops chasing paedophiles and psychopathic murderers. That's exactly the sort of cop you want for that job.
By connecting to the tor network, there's a good chance that we are, or could in future be, suspected pedos ourselves. It sickens me to the core that we must share a network with many of the sites that exist on the onion, and I am painfully aware that they make us more of a target, both in the eyes of law enforcement and public opinion. :(
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So many good points in this thread... And they make me realize how absolutely corrupt and self-serving Government has become. Maybe not yet quite evil, but getting pretty damned close.
History always repeats itself, and the same mistakes are made over and over and over.
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I hope so....
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This is a possibility, and although most would consider it far-fetched, I think something like this is likely at some point. I doubt that the government care about SR or bitcoin in particular, but they don't like people having the ability to communicate and organize in secret.
I don't think it would even take a "terror" event as a catalyst (although the olympics this year gives them an opportunity). With the stories in the national rags about the "dark web" and it's "drugs, weapons and child porn", public opinion may be weighted enough to allow them to pass laws restricting use of networks like tor without too much backlash. A few more drug death or child abuse stories could well be all it takes to invoke a clampdown, rather than a single big event.
I don't think trying to engage with any kind of rational argument is going to achieve the effect on the population that a notional authoritarian government would ideally like. Irrational, defensive behavior is what you are trying to "inspire".
By connecting to the tor network, there's a good chance that we are, or could in future be, suspected pedos ourselves. It sickens me to the core that we must share a network with many of the sites that exist on the onion, and I am painfully aware that they make us more of a target, both in the eyes of law enforcement and public opinion. :(
There's a good chance that you're a suspected drug smuggler right now (albeit for very tiny volumes) and have been for some time. If you're being diligent, there will be precisely the same amount of evidence linking you to that act as there would be to you being a user of internet paedophilic abuse sites (except for those that actually do download child porn, they're on their own though). We've been sharing the ordinary internet with these odious perverts since internet day dot, and we all still do.
Remember, the whole point about Tor is that it renders any monitoring of the content of the traffic unintelligible. If one needed to be granted a special dispensation to be able to become a Tor user, I'm sure the more imaginative of us could come up with a reason that fits any mold prescribed by officialdom.
And besides, the very act of any government wanting to be able to control the ability of the individual to browse the web without it being logged by any organization (commercial, governmental or otherwise) should start to bring the whole issue of internet privacy rights much more to the fore of current political debate.
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Remember, the whole point about Tor is that it renders any monitoring of the content of the traffic unintelligible. If one needed to be granted a special dispensation to be able to become a Tor user, I'm sure the more imaginative of us could come up with a reason that fits any mold prescribed by officialdom.
All you have to do is go to Google and read their new terms of service and the info they get by tracking everything you do while using their services is enough too warrant using something like TOR to protect yourself.
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All you have to do is go to Google and read their new terms of service and the info they get by tracking everything you do while using their services is enough too warrant using something like TOR to protect yourself.
Indeed. Why do Google feel the need to log people searching for sexually transmitted disease advice? Or Amazon your search for foot deodorisers?
People have a right to keep those things to themselves if they want to. I do not want to live in a society where it's not possible to conveniently get information on potentially personal or private topics, without being forced to attach them to a profiling service that sells the information on for profit.
Tor gives everyone, worldwide, the option of private web browsing. There can be no justification for taking the right to do so away. And of course, if the system whereby you "keep things to yourself" on the web is going to be in any way effective, it has to be good enough to protect all types of private communication, even those types that others find morally unjustified (of which Silk Road is probably the only contentious example for me, I don't want a gun or paedophillia or to have someone murdered, and no-one else can successfully argue the right to any of those things in my eyes)
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I agree with your views on privacy entirely. My fear is that the masses do not. Many people will happily post every detail of their lives on FB etc. This is especially true of the younger generation, who are generally considered social outcasts if they don't also have an interesting and revealing online presence.
I feel that those who still value their privacy are in a minority, even moreso when it comes to data collection by faceless corporations. Even though Mr Smith at #23 likes to look at tranny porn, and doesn't want his wife or friends to know about it, he doesn't care that google knows, because, in his mind, it will never affect him.
It seems to me like very few people still care about privacy online. :(
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I agree with your views on privacy entirely. My fear is that the masses do not. Many people will happily post every detail of their lives on FB etc. This is especially true of the younger generation, who are generally considered social outcasts if they don't also have an interesting and revealing online presence.
I feel that those who still value their privacy are in a minority, even moreso when it comes to data collection by faceless corporations. Even though Mr Smith at #23 likes to look at tranny porn, and doesn't want his wife or friends to know about it, he doesn't care that google knows, because, in his mind, it will never affect him.
It is true that the younger generation are less restrained when it comes to their personal information, but remember that they're all too aware of how they can keep their Facebook account under control. Many already have their close friends, acquaintances, teachers, parents and extended families in separate Facebook groups, with different abilities to access certain personal information/services such as IM chat or specific photo albums (who wants pictures of themselves and their friends having an unguarded private moment appearing for the benefit of their employers and grandparents?)
Private moments should stay private to those concerned, Facebook using teenagers and young adults largely do appreciate this.
The Mr Smith's out there should at least be slightly aware that there is a breadcrumb trail of transvestite pornography related pop-ups seemingly following them around everywhere they go while using Internet Explorer 6. They've already got a plethora of excusing statements about why the pop-ups appear, mainly for the benefit of their wives and friends. They'd probably prefer to at least be able to pretend about it all in a convincing way (the wives know, let's be honest). So, the Mr Smith's out there should be pretty receptive to arguments about Internet Privacy, even if they do have to make up more excuses to their spouses about why they support it so strongly.
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I agree with your views on privacy entirely. My fear is that the masses do not. Many people will happily post every detail of their lives on FB etc. This is especially true of the younger generation, who are generally considered social outcasts if they don't also have an interesting and revealing online presence.
I feel that those who still value their privacy are in a minority, even moreso when it comes to data collection by faceless corporations. Even though Mr Smith at #23 likes to look at tranny porn, and doesn't want his wife or friends to know about it, he doesn't care that google knows, because, in his mind, it will never affect him.
It seems to me like very few people still care about privacy online. :(
Absolutely in agreement with you. I think it's mostly just youth: most young people don't realize that what they do now, will affect them years down the line...and part of the 'joy' of being young, is that old age is way far away, so why worry. But there are so many ways where our loss of privacy can hurt us, loose freedom.
I have many examples, but my main one is that my friend, an excellent guy, older fellow, had flown up to Canada from Florida in USA. When he got to immigration they told him he was not allowed in country because of a dui from years ago. Apparently a DUI (Driving Under the Influence) is a felony in Canada, and they keep a database of all U.S. citizens, so a quick online check.
Basically it means you can no longer leave your past behind, but carry it with you forever, very sad, and like the old Joni Mitchell song says: "You don't know what you got 'til it's gone, they pave paradise, and put up a parking lot!"
Anyway, law enforcement loves it, but we've lost more than we can even know, but someday we will realize that that which we didn't cherish, we lost.
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By some freaky cosmic coincidence, I have had that song going through my head for the last couple of days, despite not hearing it for years. :o
I've only fairly recently begun using the onion network in any serious sense, and it brings back memories of what the internet used to feel like. It's brought it home to me how much I have had to self-censor on clearweb sites, and also highlighted the mistakes I have made with certain clearweb search terms in the past, when I was just growing for myself, and so less concerned about the likelihood of being investigated.
In hindsight, it was of course a dumb move to ever access grow sites and google without protection, but how many people actually live their entire lives like that? Me now, obviously, but it's taken the fact that I am about to commit a fairly serious crime before it even occured to me. :(
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everyone knows it but certain govs and corps make far to much money out of it for it to change,it would stop the flow of slaves for the usa private prison complex which aint allowed either,it may cost tax payers shit loads but why would that concern em thats what they want coz there companies get that coin ,for the powers that be its fine how it is
I don't know why anyone would think you'd get bad karma from telling the truth.
The CIA is one of the biggest benefactors or the opium trade, the largest portion of actual printed US dollars circulate in black markets, mostly drug markets, huge budgets are "printed", actually numbers added to accounts on banks computers, to "fight" this "problem" and the nobody in the bureaucracy wants to work themselves out of a job.
The nature of bureaucracy is to prove that they need as much or more budget next year by spending it all and then crying for more this year.
The last thing you will ever see is a bureaucrat saying, "Well, it looks like my purpose is obsolete, I guess I'll go and retrain for a new job in the private sector"
Nope, nobody in a position to quit the war on drugs as the socially destructive thing that it is has any interest in doing so.
The only way "we" win is to destroy the bureaucratic incentive structure.....all or it. Not just in the "War On Drugs" because it will always be a "War on this or a War on that", because people give up liberty and money when convinced they are at "War" with something, and it always equates to a war between tax producers and tax eaters.
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I really believe the best way to change things is targeted assassinations.
When/if someone presents a bill to congress for drug legalization, those who vote no is a public record. Most of them are married and have children. Put bullets in the heads of the family members of the members of congress who vote no, and then have another vote.
Also, cops are so brazen. I fully believe more of them need to be shot. Then maybe they will lose their zeal.
Just my 2 cents.
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I wonder how widespread it's use is in this country (UK), and what percentage of that is "legitimate"?
9807 people in the UK used the TOR network between 2012-01-18 and 2012-04-17, how to figure out how many "legitimate" users there are that's hard to tell.
Source; https://metrics.torproject.org/users.html
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They are afraid of bringing back the hemp plant that is alot stronger in substance compared to cotton, paper just to name a few. If they bring back the hemp plant alot of these major companies such as dupont will be out of business. That would really hurt the economy and make a few billionaires angry..
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What if the Kony Campaign was instead about the Drug War.
We need to start a movement.
A video could highlight the extreme violence, cost, and inefficiency of the current drug policy, including
>average cost to the taxpayer
>accurate depiction of prison environment - they truly are slaves working in factories
>an accurate % of the drugs seized (<5% i'm sure)
>>as compared to the sheer amount of violence caused by the DEA vs Cartel clashing
>link to the OP's article and an online website with posters.
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Quite. Which is why I've just in the last day or so come to the conclusion that the governments do have one other broad category of (very desperate) option: engineering the mother of all "terrorist" attacks in order to exploit the panic using fast-tracked illiberal legislation (somewhere in Europe would probably be a good option strategically, hit the Bitcoin base).
This would all though, of course, requires a conspiracy of epic proportions. I'm just throwing it out there lol
This is not only possible, but likely.
Governments have a long history of false-flags
to further political agendas (Reichstag Fire, Gulf of Tonkin, Lusitania,
the Maine, 9/11 etc etc)
At a certain point, coincidences no longer become tenable nor explanatory.
And they make me realize how absolutely corrupt and self-serving Government has become. Maybe not yet quite evil, but getting pretty damned close.
Government has absolutely become evil -- it has merged with the corporations,
a situation which Mussolini called 'corporatism'. But , at least the trains
ran on time. For some people, that's all they care about. Human nature is
still the same as in the past.
All you have to do is go to Google and read their new terms of service and the info they get by tracking everything you do while using their services is enough too warrant using something like TOR to protect yourself.
Google should be considered a branch of the intelligence agencies.
Their latest executive comes straight from DARPA.
Tor gives everyone, worldwide, the option of private web browsing. There can be no justification for taking the right to do so away
Assuming TOR secure, which is likely, but not provable. Be careful of
flash, cookies, and downloads. And traffic correlation attacks.
I agree with your views on privacy entirely. My fear is that the masses do not. Many people will happily post every detail of their lives on FB etc
Yes, and many of these people are functionally zombies
for which there is no hope. Don't waste your time on them.
It seems to me like very few people still care about privacy online. :(
People adapt very quickly, it's sad.
.The CIA is one of the biggest benefactors or the opium trade, the largest portion of actual printed US dollars circulate in black markets, mostly drug markets, huge budgets are "printed", actually numbers added to accounts on banks computers, to "fight" this "problem" and the nobody in the bureaucracy wants to work themselves out of a job.
Absolutely. I'm impressed with your depth of knowledge . You'd be surprised what the black budget actually funds.
What if the Kony Campaign was instead about the Drug War.
That's a noble idea to try to change things via 'internet activism', but the system is too corrupt. It's too far gone. You can either join it , fight it, or ignore it. That's your choice.
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What concerns me most about the Conspiracy Theory angle is that, IF it's all true, then we're unlikely to survive the struggle. If the major western governments are being manipulated, the psychology of the ultimate manipulators is unlikely to respond well to a sense of embattlement. Their attitude won't be: "Ah well, it was fun while it lasted, but you guys won! Aren't you clever with your Bitcoin and Silk Road, I have respect for a smart opponent. Guess I'll just have to be a nice genocidal megalomaniac from now, live and let live, eh?"
If there's any indication that Bitcoin and Silk Road are going to ruin their plans irretrievably, their final option will be nuclear annihilation from the safety of well stocked, well located bunker.
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What if the Kony Campaign was instead about the Drug War.
We need to start a movement.
A video could highlight the extreme violence, cost, and inefficiency of the current drug policy, including
>average cost to the taxpayer
>accurate depiction of prison environment - they truly are slaves working in factories
>an accurate % of the drugs seized (<5% i'm sure)
>>as compared to the sheer amount of violence caused by the DEA vs Cartel clashing
>link to the OP's article and an online website with posters.
The problem with any movement is that you would never get a platform in the media as they are corp. controlled as well. Also the issue you state focus on cost/money/resource issues while the whole subject should originate from an healthcare pov. How many more addicts does the US has vs countries with more liberal laws etc.
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What if the Kony Campaign was instead about the Drug War.
We need to start a movement.
A video could highlight the extreme violence, cost, and inefficiency of the current drug policy, including
>average cost to the taxpayer
>accurate depiction of prison environment - they truly are slaves working in factories
>an accurate % of the drugs seized (<5% i'm sure)
>>as compared to the sheer amount of violence caused by the DEA vs Cartel clashing
>link to the OP's article and an online website with posters.
I think this is an amazing Idea.
Yesterday I had a conversation with an old very christian woman about legalization. I'm not sure if I got my point across, but my best point was when I asked her if you can force a person to "come to christ," she said no, I compared that to people "coming to rehab" because you can't force a person into rehab, you simply have to wait for them to desire it.
I think after I smashed her arguments with facts and citations, her eyes glazed over.
"live and let live" should be in the constitution, but i think there are people out there who either get a hard on over feeling like they have controlled others, or just people who are living in such a state of fear that they don't trust anything that they don't understand.
:( freedom? more please. :'(
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I'd like to share a bit of my personal story. I am very fortunate to have survived a severe traumatic brain injury -- and by "severe," I mean the type of injury that kills most people afflicted by it. For security's sake I don't want to share any details of my injury, but I will say that the mental health effects linger for years and even decades afterwards. So if I want to light up a joint or a bong to get some relief from those effects, I should be well within my legal rights to do so.
So here I am supporting SR as a buyer partly out of principle, in order to say FUCK YOU to the people who want to prevent me from experiencing some relief from the long-term effects of my injury. Long live SR!
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<snip snip>
So if I want to light up a joint or a bong to get some relief from those effects, I should be well within my legal rights to do so.
So here I am supporting SR as a buyer partly out of principle, in order to say FUCK YOU to the people who want to prevent me from experiencing some relief from the long-term effects of my injury. Long live SR!
I think it's a total shame that there are many people in this world who would love to kill you for smoking weed. (who are the bad guys again)
Long live SR yes, but only as long as it is needed. I hope it isn't needed for very much longer :-/
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This place has a lot of benefits, but it is a drop in the ocean for the drug market. The traditional distribution model is still the dominant one, and I doubt this model will replace it because of it's inherent drawbacks, and there are many.
The Tor network itself is not untouchable, and I think that will be the first thing they go after, once they pass the "we have a right to spy on everybody" laws. How long before simply using these kind of networks becomes a criminal offense? Without meaning to sound like a conspiraloon, they want to control and monitor every aspect of our lives, and nothing makes them more nervous than people having the ability to communicate and organise in secret.
For all it's usefulness, I don't see this place as the ultimate answer. It's just somewhere to regroup before the next assault begins. The psychopaths that govern our lives are determined. They aren't the type to give up easily.
You are very right about the Tor network not being untouchable. Government are moving to exploit that fact
The US's NSA is working with ISPs to moniter communications and break ssl/tls encrypted communications
http://personalliberty.com/2011/06/20/isps-team-up-with-nsa-to-monitor-internet-traffic-26507/
If you read the article they plan to monitor malware communications, as many may know malware does use Tor as one way to communicate. It would not be difficult to leverage this to track down users in the US and investigate them.
other nations are moving to do the same:
http://www.infowars.com/government-resurrects-plan-to-spy-on-all-phone-calls-and-emails/
Now don't take this the wrong way. We have certainly made a difference in the world thus far and we can continue to do that, we just need to watch our step and be ever vigilant of our security.
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I'd like to share a bit of my personal story. I am very fortunate to have survived a severe traumatic brain injury -- and by "severe," I mean the type of injury that kills most people afflicted by it. For security's sake I don't want to share any details of my injury, but I will say that the mental health effects linger for years and even decades afterwards. So if I want to light up a joint or a bong to get some relief from those effects, I should be well within my legal rights to do so.
So here I am supporting SR as a buyer partly out of principle, in order to say FUCK YOU to the people who want to prevent me from experiencing some relief from the long-term effects of my injury. Long live SR!
I'm sorry you suffer....but.
Who ever gave the "right" to control the bodies and decisions of how to use those bodies of any individual, sick or healthy, to an elite group of common thugs?
They say government derives it's powers from the people right?
How many people do you know with the right to tax? We call that theft here in the private sector.
How about draft or arrest (assuming no active aggression during said arrest)? We call that kidnapping and/or slavery.
Here's the question and it's one of pure logic. How many people have to be in agreement to create governmental positive "rights" out of thin air?
What that means is how many people have to agree to ignore your natural rights before it becomes a "legitimate" government power?
If the government has NO powers NOT granted it by the people how can the people EVER grant it powers they never had to grant?
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This place has a lot of benefits, but it is a drop in the ocean for the drug market. The traditional distribution model is still the dominant one, and I doubt this model will replace it because of it's inherent drawbacks, and there are many.
The Tor network itself is not untouchable, and I think that will be the first thing they go after, once they pass the "we have a right to spy on everybody" laws. How long before simply using these kind of networks becomes a criminal offense? Without meaning to sound like a conspiraloon, they want to control and monitor every aspect of our lives, and nothing makes them more nervous than people having the ability to communicate and organise in secret.
For all it's usefulness, I don't see this place as the ultimate answer. It's just somewhere to regroup before the next assault begins. The psychopaths that govern our lives are determined. They aren't the type to give up easily.
You are very right about the Tor network not being untouchable. Government are moving to exploit that fact
The US's NSA is working with ISPs to moniter communications and break ssl/tls encrypted communications
http://personalliberty.com/2011/06/20/isps-team-up-with-nsa-to-monitor-internet-traffic-26507/
If you read the article they plan to monitor malware communications, as many may know malware does use Tor as one way to communicate. It would not be difficult to leverage this to track down users in the US and investigate them.
other nations are moving to do the same:
http://www.infowars.com/government-resurrects-plan-to-spy-on-all-phone-calls-and-emails/
Now don't take this the wrong way. We have certainly made a difference in the world thus far and we can continue to do that, we just need to watch our step and be ever vigilant of our security.
He's right. They only need 33 "bits" of info to put a person together with thiis info and every hint we drop only assists.
Never tell REAL personal stories......ever.
Comb forums of all types and look for the lowest common denominator in forum and writing "style" (like using quotes, caps, brackets and certain typos) and blend with it as though u were blending with junk mail ;)
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I'm starting to see how you picked up those negative karma points, LHS
NEXT
Meh , but the reality is we're not winning .
There have been many many reports/reviews about the fact that the " War On Drugs" is not working by objective/intelligent ppl with no axe to grind . We all know that legalization is the way to go for every reason you can think of but drugs and the ppl that use drugs (except booze 'n' fags ) have been demonized to the point that it will not happen . I could write a 10,000 word essay on this , back it up with facts , stats , statments, empirical evidence from health care professionals but it would make no difference . It is political suicide for any party to suggest legalization of even the most common narcotic ( cannabis ) . Hopefully this will change but I can't see it happening any time soon . I've tried to engage ppl on the tabloid level ,
Ok , so a crack addict needs £150 a day to support their habit and they burgle to that money . The maths goes :- new goods resold second hand get approx 1/2 of original cost , stolen goods get approx 1/2 of their value . Now these are VERY optimistic figures but we already up to £600 of goods per day to buy something that costs less than 10% of that at source .So shouldn't we try different route to deal this because what we are doing now plainly does not work ?. ( there is a lot more that goes in here , damage limitation , intervention, help/info/health care at point sale) . And ppl just don't want to know *sigh* I think/thought education was the key to most of societies ills but the more I see the nihlistic I get .
BTW . The "known " universe is 93 BILLION light years across ( google how far light travels in a year ) and you expect me to believe not only was is it created by a being that watches our every move during our life ( don't get me started about how tiny our 70 years are in the grand design of things) and then judges us after death . Get the fuck outta here , we need to move on from this howling at the moon shit . HAPPY EASTER :-))
Fuck yeah buddy!
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Well, we're over 6 months on, and I submit to you all again: We're Winning.
- I haven't been arrested, or in any fear of such a thing
- I have ordered vast amounts of Silk Road wares through the post to the various locations I've been residing at or visiting during that time. VAST AMOUNTS (+300 BTC spent)
- Silk Road is still growing
- Bitcoin price hasn't crashed (well, not much anyways, lol)
- Bitcoin network is still growing (the miners)
Forget the V for Vendetta mask, I think a Charlie Sheen one would be more the thing.