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Discussion => Security => Topic started by: tabun on May 07, 2013, 10:24 pm

Title: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: tabun on May 07, 2013, 10:24 pm
Here is a CLEARNET link for source code to modify with instructions on how to generate 16,384 bit keys on GnuPG.

http://albanianwizard.org/gnupg-create-keys-over-4096-bit-stronger-encryption.albanianwizard

But you REALLY, REALLY don't need it. More is not always better. Well, it IS better, but overkill. Check this estimate out:

To give you an idea what it takes to break an RSA 1620 bit key, you would need a computer with 120 Terabytes of memory before you can even think about attempting it and the memory requirement virtually rules out massively distributed cracking methods.

Source:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/ou/is-encryption-really-crackable/204
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: empireofthestate on May 07, 2013, 11:08 pm
and when asked Why? FUCK YOU thats why....
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: IMP-16 on May 07, 2013, 11:14 pm
Even 4096-bit keys are a bit overkill today.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: tabun on May 07, 2013, 11:30 pm
Even 4096-bit keys are a bit overkill today.

I totally agree, but just because my encryption software generates 4096 bit keys, I use one lol!
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 12:17 am
Turns out, building it is the easy part. I failed at generating the key:


$ time ./gpg --gen-key
 
Please select what kind of key you want:
   (1) RSA and RSA (default)
   (2) DSA and Elgamal
   (3) DSA (sign only)
   (4) RSA (sign only)
   (7) DSA (set your own capabilities)
   (8) RSA (set your own capabilities)
Your selection? 1

RSA keys may be between 1024 and 16384 bits long.
What keysize do you want? (2048) 16384
Requested keysize is 16384 bits

RSA keys may be between 1024 and 16384 bits long.
What keysize do you want for the subkey? (2048) 16384
Requested keysize is 16384 bits

Please specify how long the key should be valid.
         0 = key does not expire
      <n>  = key expires in n days
      <n>w = key expires in n weeks
      <n>m = key expires in n months
      <n>y = key expires in n years
Key is valid for? (0)
Key does not expire at all
Is this correct? (y/N) y

You need a user ID to identify your key; the software constructs the user ID
from the Real Name, Comment and Email Address in this form:
    "Heinrich Heine (Der Dichter) <heinrichh@duesseldorf.de>"

Real name: astor
Email address: astorx@tormail.org
Comment:
You selected this USER-ID:
    "astor <astorx@tormail.org>"

Change (N)ame, (C)omment, (E)mail or (O)kay/(Q)uit? o
You need a Passphrase to protect your secret key.

We need to generate a lot of random bytes. It is a good idea to perform
some other action (type on the keyboard, move the mouse, utilize the
disks) during the prime generation; this gives the random number
generator a better chance to gain enough entropy.
.................................................................................................+++++
.......+++++


Not enough random bytes available.  Please do some other work to give
the OS a chance to collect more entropy! (Need 200 more bytes)
..........................................+++++
...:...............................................................+++++

gpg: out of secure memory while allocating 2048 bytes
gpg: (this may be caused by too many secret keys used simultaneously or due to excessive large key sizes)

real   59m45.623s
user   52m1.651s
sys   0m0.164s


I just spent an hour mashing on the keyboard, browsing randomly, listening to music, while simultaneously patting my head and rubbing my belly...  only to "run out of secure memory".

Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: tabun on May 08, 2013, 12:29 am
I should have put a notice that I haven't actually done it myself. I went Ubuntu after XP and went back to Windows 7 after the first service pack. Sorry it didn't work out for you though. Maybe you need crazy RAM. I have 6GB on my lappy, I might try it with a live distro.

EDIT: +1 to you for the GPG4USB tutorial too! I love it!
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: pine on May 08, 2013, 12:32 am
He's right that large key sizes are not the main thing at this point. But he is not right that this state will continue forever.

Once quantum cryptanalysis attacks get up and running using Shor's algorithm on quantum computers of sufficient qubits, it shall for practical purposes cut the key size of symmetric keys in half. e.g. an AES 256 bit key would be worth 128 bits.

Unfortunately asymmetric key cryptography is even more vulnerable to this attack. A asymmetric key algorithm like RSA of any size, no matter how big, would fall under an attack with a quantum computer.

--

The Good News:

Quantum computers are:

A: Expensive and/or awkward.

B: Difficult to scale currently (but every extra qubit makes a big difference because this has an exponential affect). They can do Shor's algorithm to factorize numbers like 15 or 21, just 2 digits. Your typical RSA encryption key is at least 1025 bit encryption key, which in decimal notation is 309 digits long.

C: If they are used, the PGP encrypted messages on SR are the least likely target of a quantum computer. We'll hear about this in the news long before it affects us directly.

D: New asymmetric algorithms are in development to head off quantum attackers.

Quote
Post-quantum cryptography refers to research on cryptographic primitives (usually public-key cryptosystems) that are not breakable using quantum computers. This term came about because most currently popular public-key cryptosystems rely on the integer factorization problem or discrete logarithm problem, both of which would be easily solvable on large enough quantum computers using Shor's algorithm

Currently post-quantum cryptography is mostly focused on four different approaches:

  ->  Lattice-based cryptography such as NTRU and GGH
  ->  Multivariate cryptography such as Unbalanced Oil and Vinegar
  ->  Hash-based signatures such as Lamport signatures and Merkle signature scheme
  ->  Code-based cryptography that relies on error-correcting codes, such as McEliece encryption and Niederreiter signatures

Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography

--

The main technical threat to us in practice is not quantum computers and quantum cryptanalysis themselves.

It is things like:

1. Perfect Forward Anonymity.

Notice my "anonymous PGP thread"... Anyway this is where the attacker holds all your PGP encrypted messages, eventually gets to decrypt them, but the information gained within does not compromise your identity.

This is mostly achieved by the simple expedient of revealing your true identity to no-one no-one (vendors and staff pay attention!) and using anonymous PGP encryption so LE agents cannot connect alt nyms together. Information that doesn't exist cannot be cryptanalyzed, not even in retrospect. Customers of SR can relax. Seriously nobody is going to give a shit you bought cocaine or weed two decades ago unless we have Sharia Law imposed or something.

2. Algorithmic Diversification.

Using a diverse set of algorithms instead of relying on one or two. You should treat algorithms like stocks in a portfolio. For example with the PGP cryptosystem I would like (I'm not aware of this being possible with off-the-shelf software) the session key to be encrypted with at least two public key encryption algorithms instead of just one. i.e. with PGP cryptosystem you encrypt the message with some symmetric algorithm like CAST or AES using a "session key". You then encrypt the session key with ELG, then you (we should) encrypt the encrypted session key with yet another algorithm like RSA.

Our threat model honestly isn't the highest, but I think if you are an intelligence agency with spies and agents depending their lives on just RSA alone then you ought to put your techs up against the wall for being so incompetent. Surely you wouldn't go into battle with one type of gun, the same applies here.

3. General Stupidity.

Last but not least, people do stupid things. Things like not learning PGP in the first place, sending people their private keys, not RTFM even when they are at risk of prison time. You think LEO are going to trouble themselves with a gazillions encrypted messages when they haven't even finishing cleaning up Topix? Protip: low hanging fruit always get it in the neck, irrespective of time or technology.

Joining PGP Club is really an anti-stupidity movement. None of it is rocket science so read the manual. Pine is not a genius, pine is a platypus.

If even a humble pint sized monotreme  paddling in its little riverstream and motoring about its burrow for leaves can learn PGP, then so can you. Since when do you guys get to play with military grade anything? Never. Here's your chance! Join PGP Club!
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 12:34 am
Ok, so apparently this is what that error means:

http://www.gnupg.org/faq/GnuPG-FAQ.html#why-do-i-get-gpg_warning_using_insecure_memory

I put no-secmem-warning in my gpg.conf and I'm letting it run again, but I'm not wasting my time creating my own entropy. If it takes 6 hours, so be it.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: tabun on May 08, 2013, 12:44 am
He's right that large key sizes are not the main thing at this point. But he is not right that this state will continue forever.

Peter Shor IS a genius. I just didn't realize that functional models were already being put into production:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/22/technology/testing-a-new-class-of-speedy-computer.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 02:10 am
Failed again after 72 minutes. :/

I want to make a 16 kbit key to test if the popular PGP programs can handle it.

Got it running as root now, with mode 4755, as the FAQ suggests. If this fails, I may have to spin up a 32 GB EC2 instance...
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: tabun on May 08, 2013, 02:38 am
I want to make a 16 kbit key to test if the popular PGP programs can handle it.

That's exactly what I was wondering.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 03:17 am
Hell yeah, got it! :)

So, following a lead provided by one of the GPG developers here: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gnupg/devel/48822

In gpg.c, I increased this:

2011:    got_secmem=secmem_init( 32768 );

to this:

2011:    got_secmem=secmem_init( 131072 );

I figured since the max key size was 4 times as big, the "secure memory" allocation should be 4 times as big.

Recompiled, generated the key, and voila:


pub   16384R/DED75362 2013-05-08
      Key fingerprint = F4E3 583D 6849 C8C4 9CC8  9E47 F6FC E6D4 DED7 5362
uid                  astor <astorx@tormail.org>
sub   16384R/B4BB43D6 2013-05-08



So does anyone want to encrypt a message to me? Tell us the PGP program you're using.

Ok, comically large public key incoming...


-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

mQgNBFGJt3gBQAClA9I/DvL2dWQlMrZ0lBJYfn3Ns2bY9DfNevHPrMtKW4feTV06
IAT31OQmdzqNMMtz6hYM1EBR4gBSOiGvst29A7bdKD8gBqnLDM+R/viBiRA26em/
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MP6B07oAtvjTmxyVJDuAabJaNv0Ja05dpeT7Tl5Sv103W4g3VEhlsNnO4xbDCz+P
fkzvffuIfVC7Eq3uiQRxbCmvhxBqTjzW+Foslf9Gteydf9XEbwdSBd9T/QfhUW52
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-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----


BTW, that time it only took 38 minutes. Apparently, Marilyn Manson has more entropy than Icona Pop.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 03:52 am
Look at the time difference in decrypting the same message with my 4K and 16K keys.

$ time gpg -d test4k.pgp

You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
user: "astor <astorx@tormail.org>"
4096-bit RSA key, ID CC925AD7, created 2012-12-19 (main key ID 706EE207)

gpg: encrypted with 4096-bit RSA key, ID CC925AD7, created 2012-12-19
      "astor <astorx@tormail.org>"
Hello.

real   0m0.067s
user   0m0.060s
sys   0m0.004s


$ time gpg -d test16k.pgp

You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
user: "astor <astorx@tormail.org>"
16384-bit RSA key, ID B4BB43D6, created 2013-05-08 (main key ID DED75362)

gpg: encrypted with 16384-bit RSA key, ID B4BB43D6, created 2013-05-08
      "astor <astorx@tormail.org>"
Hello.

real   0m2.311s
user   0m2.300s
sys   0m0.000s


The 16K key takes 34.5 times as long. At 2.3 seconds, there's a noticeable lag.

That's one good reason not to use large keys if you're doing a lot of of crypto.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: pine on May 08, 2013, 03:55 am
@astor

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----

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=vtFx
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----


I thought there might be a noticeable delay, but no. Maybe the 16k club is ready for prime time!

P.S. that was a copy of gpg4usb btw. Seemed to handle it fine.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 04:01 am
Can you try not encrypting it with throw-keyid? That may be introducing a confound, since it's stuck trying to test keys.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: pine on May 08, 2013, 04:08 am
Can you try not encrypting it with throw-keyid? That may be introducing a confound, since it's stuck trying to test keys.

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----

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CaJKC5ihXFDVs97M8OFlKAzCU6+FOVNy3lyqPeaBQgajeD/xs2md6xIi3LkrykE8
vaeXgVmLp0taoGkytaV0+gzq+/cE8qfFmljMG3WUbjSRazGwolWby9VCFFf3RAKL
BkNAGRwucAqEA+GDNgwzWHDXpwUrc7JgXN01T8Xp11WFq455eBeBZeamlP3ueXNy
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30ajdIaa9tVcprH88dqPcDTptWUUKxHM3WtIZxhSwronKRHFvuLId7J85KYdT13u
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wNjmJ+KhAV7LeU0CVi/gxsjO2kGUuyifAvZS3Q6/vVJn/nxyACEosu3mhP4jzXfS
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eZBklXwiwpeFx7wSZ+qjSZx/C6pjRdTHSdYTFlt2nKrSQ0qMKyc/fCHpwWwdlN7V
1CYrh4CneXQ=
=o82M
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 04:18 am
hmm, nope, can't decrypt it.

It's not on my end either. I was able to encrypt 10 paragraphs of lorem ipsum text from lipsum.com and decrypt it.

Edit: You probably need to increase that secmem thing to encrypt with a 16K public key too.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 04:24 am
I get this warning when decrypting 10 paragraphs of text:

gpg: WARNING: using insecure memory!


Modifying gpg to work with 16K keys isn't as easy and straightforward as it looks, and it's probably not safe for general use (at least not with the couple of hacks mentioned here).

16K public keys also probably won't work with a lot of the PGP programs out there, so even if you can hack your gpg, your senders won't be able to use them.

Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: pine on May 08, 2013, 04:34 am
Better to leave it for now then. Must pressgang more newbies into using 2048 bit keys, let alone 16k ones.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 04:39 am
LOL, good point.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: sourman on May 08, 2013, 10:50 am
Damn, and I thought I had enough RAM to do pretty much anything on this machine. That doesn't mean I won't try this out though. Challenge accepted! 8)
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: aredhel on May 08, 2013, 11:02 am
@astor, coded with the 16k key, It's still the default configuration of my PGP client

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
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=1Z3Z
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 11:39 am
aredhel, it says decryption failed. I don't think you encrypted it with my 16K key. Even when I encrypt "Hello.", it's much longer.

Here's it is actually:

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
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MSpobb50HQPtHr+JDe3w6ZVzJ/ePsCvVmIwxZwMwOXO4jJ7Tg4LRsXJ3rVTZ3cGt
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Vx09Fvd+vgbPLCxnBfz5pPhiQ10tX4MD7GFrDTQKsrbE/IhLYBpCr1ityscdIVD/
m7TP+6NJZZVKPel8putqwAmus/2suqiH7Z+I60BWa734+xHYb1lm8BMJKQDZFKuW
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zrEd5JOLuCBuK+teSdtkyBb06FJezgMWFp2cZbZlZ5Js+LXSl3rqRvjwwG9OGRo6
kRNOJOOCmcX24Jw=
=BaPn
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 11:50 am
sourman, haha, turns out you don't need a ton of RAM, you just need to increase the "secure memory" to a high enough value.

If you plan to do this on a Debian-based distro, here's how I built a nice package for easy installation (and removal, if needed). The other advantage is that the package building scripts run lots of tests and sanity checks.

$ apt-mark hold gnupg
$ apt-get install build-essential fakeroot devscripts
$ apt-get build-dep gnupg
$ apt-get source gnupg
$ cd gnupg-*/

In ./g10/keygen.c, line 1580, change 4096 to 16384

In ./g10/gpg.c, line 2011, change 32768 to 524288

When I increased that second value 16 fold, I no longer got the secure memory warning.

$ debuild -rfakeroot -uc -us
$ cd ..
$ dpkg -i gnupg_*.deb
$ chmod 4755 /usr/bin/gpg

Then you can uninstall it by reinstalling the repo version
$ apt-mark unhold gnupg
$ apt-get install gnupg

Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: tabun on May 08, 2013, 12:40 pm
Thank you guys for all that hard work. I really wanted to know IF a 16k key would even work with the popular PGP software available. I'm happy with my 4k key atm. Should things drastically change with computational power, I may look into other cryptography methods.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: aredhel on May 08, 2013, 02:56 pm
@astor..

epic fail! I crypted it with someone else's key also starting with 'a' :(
good to see one possible leaking situation now :)
I was actually surprised why it was this shor- the real thing of course is longer.

In general, cryptography is still like magic to me, many things not easy to understand even if you know a bit about mathematics/algorithms

And yes tabun, it works even with my super standard kgpg here when a newb like me is using it

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
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jJPz9MoTN1g4rdQYN6lNmsk8atPIO9+Kfz4j+bpKxT+wNYl0qGZV9mj5Xtyf3EWb
ktIcLsDDu25EioO0RyPzqHT7Wuf89K4CaX2aM0GNOdK6xTKEUGnhCmx23qySbqM9
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TiGSg8rY4YULQcUTEBWfcoD/t7GAv1q1Cx5k4a2i6/EhPsYjTRPeQSZAH5ToDf5A
wbR3WaC/K+NAajIjo/zWNtBfblEoV/Kid4XxxIJBTBre9Bk7ft9JnOHACBMYFxuI
QqZ9nMOsFftBJgRl71gKjQmauA34byPwlsiOzufJcpKru1okaFBuyG676D1SDKUG
3Xe9FXSsGU3wnGnx/GrUbqtkqZwSIYj/gesO1MJQIJvGrrOEjUAuhhioNaw5qgvx
/FBKFo5BGkSKqGedzPHrOGki2rswWZMA8Z/IJQ9levaNCCImx6zLvpiAQbyY21Ho
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8TxeIuAyY2b/wNS2R5kmRPWgmZeYChtDqfnM0wNOg0rziEcHB3AzYDtLdNmM9rDg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=kzDl
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

Here's MY private key, and can we just cut out the "Version" line after generation if we don't want to show it- would it still work?

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)

mQGiBFEhQK4RBADRzIjrQTNKF87OXYfygscYH+/Fyoe/8/rwI3yaoUtPDBKXJJqO
g44MTr4C48TyaO5VoDfg0egxa29spDEZeMSGbIlYNhZg76uDMit5OpDZf2kn+OQn
GmCYwT8IbYwrZOyHvp3CVwDFaZQ2zbnZe8Di+PdAkVXx9GYXVsfCTKj/AwCgsCzx
zFciGkcN4TdvqILOln05kFEEAI0AEOb2jpqY8jX+7Q26+ps0gasx5qhsxE6g7Gww
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=39HP
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: Tessellated on May 08, 2013, 03:07 pm
With encryption you do not want the latest thing, or anything home brewed.

While bigger keys is probably better there is a danger that the new code has an implementation failure.

Better to rely on well vetted versions.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 07:13 pm
@aredhel

Sorry, it won't decrypt. I don't think unmodified PGP programs are capable of encrypting messages with 16K keys, and it looks like they fail silently.

My gpg gets stuck at:

gpg: okay, we are the anonymous recipient.
gpg: encrypted with RSA key, ID 00000000


So it knows the 16K key was used, but gets stuck after that.

I'd like for someone else to build the modified gpg and test it, because all I've proven so far is that my modifications work with my gpg.


Also, you can manually remove the version line, or add

no-emit-version

to your gpg.conf
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 08, 2013, 07:16 pm
@Tessellated

Of course. We're just testing the frontiers of this technology. I wouldn't encrypt anything sensitive with it.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: Fallkniven on May 09, 2013, 12:28 am
very interesting, subscribing :)

btw, the 16kbit key imported into gpg4usb just fine, i encrypted a message with no errors but didn't bother posting it after reading about failures above...
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 09, 2013, 03:06 am
Someone else needs to build the modified gpg. SS, where you at? :)
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: SorryMario on May 09, 2013, 06:57 am
I just spent an hour mashing on the keyboard, browsing randomly, listening to music, while simultaneously patting my head and rubbing my belly...  only to "run out of secure memory".

Haha, you're a hoot, astor! :D

I've missed being around these forums and, while it's interesting to see how larger GPG keys can be made, I don't think anything 2048 bits or above will be crackable in the foreseeable future (advances in quantum computing science fiction notwithstanding). Interesting stuff though, and I appreciate your sharing the results of your efforts! +1
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: pliers on May 09, 2013, 07:18 am
really, instead of rsa, you guys should be looking forward to using elliptic curve cryptography (already in gnupg v2.1 if you want to try it). a 521 bit ecdsa key has the same security as a 15360 bit rsa key and it has the benefit of not taking all day to generate a key! it is the default for future versions of ssh.

I just spent an hour mashing on the keyboard, browsing randomly, listening to music, while simultaneously patting my head and rubbing my belly...  only to "run out of secure memory".
to not wait for entropy: (this method is not safe) you can speed up your key generation if you run: rngd -r /dev/urandom. usually found in rng-tools. instead of waiting for entropy to gather, it uses /dev/urandom to fill it up. good when you want to build lots of keys quickly. but i don't think you'll see a big speed up anyway since you have to actually compute suitable primes that are about 2500 digits long.

Sorry, it won't decrypt. I don't think unmodified PGP programs are capable of encrypting messages with 16K keys, and it looks like they fail silently.
i was able to import my 16k pub key in my regular gnupg 2.0 client, encrypt a message, and decrypt it on my patched gnupg 1.4 client. however, i was not able to import and use my private key in an unpatched client to decrypt messages (it runs out of memory).

@astor
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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=vIGJ
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

my 16384 bit key:
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 09, 2013, 07:57 am
It works! :)


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-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: pliers on May 09, 2013, 08:03 am
yay!, but it's annoying how long it takes me to decrypt these. i can't wait for ecc to catch on....
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: onefishtwofishredfishblue on May 09, 2013, 10:10 am
subbing
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: tabun on May 09, 2013, 12:36 pm
And +1 to Pliers also for modifying his PGP client to test this.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: astor on May 09, 2013, 02:30 pm
Yeah, I mentioned that before. There's a noticeable lag of a couple seconds when decrypting with 16K keys. This one seems even longer, maybe because it's encrypted with two 16K keys. Now imagine something like Diaspora, where you would encrypt a status update to 50 friends with all of their public keys.
Title: Re: Get 16,384 bit Encryption here. But you REALLY don't need it.
Post by: Tessellated on May 09, 2013, 04:05 pm
@Tessellated

Of course. We're just testing the frontiers of this technology. I wouldn't encrypt anything sensitive with it.

Yes, the corollary is of course that security depends on people constantly pushing the limits and testing new things. The bleeding edge is important to have, just not in a real cat and mouse game.