Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: Dread Pirate Roberts on November 09, 2012, 09:54 am
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I hope everyone enjoyed reading and discussing the first part of Lew Rockwell's The Left, the Right and the State. I'm glad we were able to squeeze it in before the US presidential election and hopefully it gave some of you an alternative perspective before you went to the polls.
I'd like to shift gears a bit and have a movie night before we start in on the next reading. A week from today, Friday the 16th, at 8 pm EST, we'll hit play on James McTeigue's "V for Vendetta."
A shadowy freedom fighter known only as "V" uses terrorist tactics to fight against his totalitarian society. Upon rescuing a girl from the secret police, he also finds his best chance at having an ally.
Because we will all be in sync, we can discuss the movie as we watch it here in this thread. If you can't watch it at the same time as everyone else, you can still watch it when you are able and add to this thread, but if you watch it sooner, please no spoilers! See you next Friday!
-DPR 8)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/3495660/V.For.Vendetta%5B2005%5DDvDrip%5BEng%5D-aXXo
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good choice
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This is bad ass. I cant wait =)
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Wow you guys have book clubs and everything? this forum is awesome
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That movie is good & i'll try to watch it again with u guys. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKvvOFIHs4k
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Snape dies!
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And I would have to go and watch it on the 5th. *sigh* Now I'll just have to watch it again.
DPR - where might someone find a copy of your or the SR public key? I'm sure it used to be on the main site profile, but it seems to have taken a walk.
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Absolutely phenomenal film :)
Great choice DPR.
makku
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Good film, will get friends round for this.
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Natalie Portman is fucking FIT.
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SPOILER ALERT!!!
Mr. Plum did it!! In the library with a candlestick holder
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Natalie Portman is fucking FIT.
With or without hair?
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Natalie Portman is fucking FIT.
With or without hair?
Lol I gotta confess, either is good with the one with no limits. :-[
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I would have much rather seen the character played as a ChineseGeneral! We are so much cooler!
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Hey gang,
Just want to keep everyone in the loop. We are in uncharted territory in terms of the number of users accessing Silk Road. Most of the time we've been able to keep up with the demand, but we ARE behind the curve right now. Being the largest hidden service ever to exist and having limited options for expanding infrastructure due to the need for security means we may stay behind the curve until we can find a way to accommodate the demand. There are several paths we are currently pursuing and we hope to be back on track very soon. Please be patient and try using the site during off-peak times.
Cheers,
DPR
UPDATE:
Another solution has been applied and so far seems to be working. We will continue to monitor the situation and work through this. New registrations are temporarily disabled.
I know this has been a frustrating experience for everyone. We aim for 100% accessibility and uptime, but have not met that goal these past few days. I want to reiterate that we are in UNCHARTED waters. Silk Road has gone through many phases and we have grown stronger each time. This won't be the last time we are challenged I can assure you. This much I can say: we will overcome this obstacle and any other set before us.
Also, for the time being, you may have to update your bookmarks by adding index.php after .onion, so silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/messages becomes silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/messages
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=64627.msg561716#msg561716 (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=64627.msg561716#msg561716)
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Silk Road discussion / Re: explosive growth
« on: November 02, 2012, 11:56 AM »
ok, I think we're getting there people. please answer the poll I just posted in this thread so I can see if what we are doing is working. Hopefully we are on the right track and everyone will have the access they need. THANK YOU everyone for your patience and faith. Please show the same kindness to each other as you get back to business and catch up on everything.
For those skeptical about the reason for the problems (too many users, not enough resources), there is an explanation for it, but you didn't guess it and I won't be telling :P
Also, great ideas around rationing systems. I will definitely be looking into something like that so if we run up against a barrier again, it won't be such a mess.
PS - In writing this post, I found myself erasing cuss words and rephrasing to be more polite. So, I just want to apologize if I come off as stiff sometimes. I'm just trying to be responsible for the Silk Road image and not let my personality get in the way. It's also safer to make my writing style bland so it is less identifiable.
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=64627.msg561716#msg561716
So a little reconstruction here ,this previous message was writen on 2 nov, that was 8 days ago, apparently there were issues than, i didn't notice a thing, i did business well into the week without so much of a hickup with the site. So are these messages wronglyu dated or has the problem been going on for 89 days and we're only noticing it now. Mind you, after 6 days on the first message, DPR messags on the thread that's angry about mrouid being kicked out" He find time to worry about the state of mr Ouid, while he's a day away of putting the maintenance' sign on the door. I know mr ouid is not going to sell much regardless... http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=67895.msg573369#msg573369 (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=67895.msg573369#msg573369)"
I'm really happy I'm not any bigger than i m right now, because i could have been and i could be in a nice mess, peoples livelihoods dpend on this situation, that's another way to look at it.
Anyway, to shut down for maintenaince like that without any notification,if that isn't bad for your image, what is? i can't imagine they would go about it like that. Basically in the foirst post its mentioned that they saw this coming, the pending capacity problems. Now this is not facebook or twietter=, hire a couple of smart people tha will come up with som kind of distributed system who the hell knows, but to let it just go offline until you fix it is out of this world.
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I've seen this message too, was wondering where it went...
wanna hear a nice conspiracy theory?
DPR is in jail, SR will never come back and everyone who downloads that movie will get a visit by crazy people in funny costumes with guns. Why? Cus "they" got your IP, cus one can not use torrent-clients through TOR. 8)
But the movie is great.
I know another great movie, with a nice speech.
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/4214593
Let's watch it on Friday 22, March 2013. That's five days before full moon. What has the moon to do with the movie? Nothing. But Israel likes to attack on full moon +/-5 days. As they did in Sudan on October 24 exactly five days before full moon. And as I see it, it will be the right time.
I stop now. Because I fell kind a off-topic. Sorry. But the movie is great. . :-X
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I have some very pressing security concerns with linking to a torrent file. When you use bittorrent software, your IP address is exposed to all peers using that same Torrent.
That provides a very real security risk; LE wouldn't even need a warrant to get a list of IP addresses. They can simply download that Torrent and scrape the IP address from all the peers.
It's a good movie but I suggest you buy a dvd and pay cash. It's an old movie so it will be just a few bucks.
Don't touch that torrent file!!!
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Ok so finding this has straight up blown my mind because for some reason out of the blue I decided to watch V for Vendetta tonight and then when I get on this forum I find this thread. Its an amazing movie and I'm glad to find a community of like minded people. I am really happy to find this community full of people who are very similar to me (there are the ignorant idiots but they are generally known an such and disliked by the rest of us) anyway awesome movie and I look forward to SR coming back up and I'd like to say that I have never lost faith in you DPR.
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Remember remember the fifth of November...
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/3495660/V.For.Vendetta%5B2005%5DDvDrip%5BEng%5D-aXXo
Look the movie is great and all, but linking to a specific torrent file was a mistake. Downloading that file would be a great way to deanonymize SR users. :(
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/3495660/V.For.Vendetta%5B2005%5DDvDrip%5BEng%5D-aXXo
Look the movie is great and all, but linking to a specific torrent file was a mistake. Downloading that file would be a great way to deanonymize SR users. :(
Haha seriously? COME THE FUCK ON. What are they going to do? Even with an IP they can't just get your identity or address without a warrant, even with a warrant what are they going to do? The torrent has 2000 seeders from allover the world, I'm guessing like 20-40 people will download it from here. Are they going to start intercepting the mail from 2000 people and hope to intercept something?
You're not being overly paranoid you're just being stupid, no offense.
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/3495660/V.For.Vendetta%5B2005%5DDvDrip%5BEng%5D-aXXo
Look the movie is great and all, but linking to a specific torrent file was a mistake. Downloading that file would be a great way to deanonymize SR users. :(
Haha seriously? COME THE FUCK ON. What are they going to do? Even with an IP they can't just get your identity or address without a warrant, even with a warrant what are they going to do? The torrent has 2000 seeders from allover the world, I'm guessing like 20-40 people will download it from here. Are they going to start intercepting the mail from 2000 people and hope to intercept something?
You're not being overly paranoid you're just being stupid, no offense.
They are going to store all IP addresses downloading that torrent within a set timeframe, or given the nature of the torrent itself, perhaps for all time. Each IP address will be connected to an RL address.
Then they will correlate those IP addresses with other intelligence data they will have been acquiring since last year. The eventual result is a relatively small subset of users
By itself, it may not be incriminating, but in combination with other data it is possible to narrow down the possibilities, sometimes quite dramatically. This is called an intersection attack, referring to the Venn diagram concept of two sets having something in common. This algorithm is classic example of detective work.
The paranoid survive. -- William Gates.
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Pine may be a lot of things, but stupid is absolutely not one of them. She has more smarts than most of us on here combined and if she says something is a security risk than you better believe it IS a security risk. While it may not be a risk worth losing sleep over, she is correct that you may want to find another link to download the movie from. At least if your the kind of person who takes your anonymity very seriously and wants to cover 100% of your tracks.
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Okay, so..pardon my newbiness but why would DPR--of all people (if he's a people and not something else)--post a bit torrent link that flunks the security test? :-\
Second question: why doesn't DPR, or some admin, do right and redact the torrent link to protect some poor sheep from getting fleeced? :(
Just sittin' around wasting time wondering about little things like this, since I cannah get me hands on any droogs at the moment. :P
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Pine may be a lot of things, but stupid is absolutely not one of them. She has more smarts than most of us on here combined and if she says something is a security risk than you better believe it IS a security risk. While it may not be a risk worth losing sleep over, she is correct that you may want to find another link to download the movie from. At least if your the kind of person who takes your anonymity very seriously and wants to cover 100% of your tracks.
Are you saying that Pine > DPR?
Using this forum is a security risk, using SilkRoad is a security risk..
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Pine isn't saying anything about DPR, she is stating the obvious.
Take the torrent file IPs, and correlate the IPs with the IPs of those running TOR. Then take a look at how often that user uses TOR. If they use it all the time, they might be doing something illegal, or they might be a tinfoil hat type. Look at the ones who use TOR occasionally, but regularly, then watch those IPs in the future for more incrimiating evidence.
Also, the government can track and prosecute you just for downloading the movie, without even caring about Silk Road, then they have your system as evidence and can find out other things by doing a forensic examination of your system.
You might enjoy living under a microscope blindly and feel secure that you think you won't be found, but you're fooling yourself if you scoff at legit warnings. DPR probably didn't think too much when he posted that, being focused on getting the road back up and running, and I'm sure he and others with any brain cells would say, get it wherever. Bargain DVD bin, internet streaming sites, alternative torrents. There are many ways to watch this without resorting to the posted torrent. Use them.
Solution, just because something is a risk, and something else is also a risk, does not mean that any of those items is safer than any other. WTF kind of logic is that? SR is a risk, but we have established protocols and techniques to mitigate security risks as much as possible, provided you read the forums and educate yourself. Torrents are a much greater risk than TOR traffic. If you don't have any actual facts to the contrary or anything beneficial to add, besides offering up information on how little you value your security, don't harsh on folks warnings about risks. Pine has, and continues to watch out for our newbies, where others say STFU, RTFM.
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lol, I already have the movie on my external hard drive but I'm going to go ahead and download it again from the torrent DPR linked, to any LE that reads this, I'm in Europe, I will be commencing the download at about 22:00 GMT, come and get me.
Yeah I like to live dangerously..
(Seriously though, you guys aren't being overly paranoid, you're being outright stupid)
No LE agency in the world is going to do what ProudCannabian suggested, I know that and DPR knows that.
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Just seen this thread for the first time now. Bizarrely, I downloaded V for Vendetta from a piratebay torrent recently. I just had to go upstairs to my other PC to check. Turns out I downloaded it the day after DPR posted, from a different torrent, but still, that's pretty freaky.
Also I then bought the book, which I've started and so far it's looking way more involved and complicated a story than you get in the film.
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Excellent - got it on dvd and aint watched it for a while - really great movie!
As far the earlier question as to wither Natalie Portman is fucking fit with or without hair?
To be honest id do bad bad things to her with or without hair - and with or without arms and legs for that matter too haha.
Peace.
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Fucking awesome movie, I wish more people woke up to it.... Did anyone notice the subliminal propaganda I noticed in film though? When V puts natalie portman in prison thats where she realizes she is free. If anyone noticed anymore let me know thanks
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you guys should really read the comic book that this movie was based on. The author, Alan Moore, is a genius, true mystic, and one of the most renowned comic book writers in the history of the medium.
i strongly, strongly recommend reading the book.
great movie too, tho :)
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Natalie Portman is fucking FIT.
What do Brits mean when they say this? Does it mean you think her body is fit, like in good shape? Or does it mean she is sexy?
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So are we still doing the movie night thing? :D
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Tomorrow (16 November) is also Terence Mckenna's Birthday :)
Rest In Peace.
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Hey guys, I just wanted to know why everyone seems to be so worked up about the torrent. Within that time frame thousands of people would have downloaded the movie, and nevermind that. You're using Tor browser, you know how to use google! someone had to have thought about this: http://bit.ly/TMutgs (LMGTFY link), http://btguard.com/ (obvious answer to your problems.)
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Natalie Portman is fucking FIT.
What do Brits mean when they say this? Does it mean you think her body is fit, like in good shape? Or does it mean she is sexy?
It's just another word for someone that is physically attractive really, I've seen it been used for people that are attractive but not actually physically fit.
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Haha seriously? COME THE FUCK ON. What are they going to do? Even with an IP they can't just get your identity or address without a warrant, even with a warrant what are they going to do? The torrent has 2000 seeders from allover the world, I'm guessing like 20-40 people will download it from here. Are they going to start intercepting the mail from 2000 people and hope to intercept something?
You're not being overly paranoid you're just being stupid, no offense.
Pine is NOT being stupid, she isn't even being paranoid.
This is what LE could do:
When you use a torrent, your IP address is exposed to all peers. LE can simply download the torrent and scrape all IP addresses. All those people committed a crime: they pirated a movie. Everybody does it, but it's still illegal. There is your cause for a warrant.
Then they can demand the ISP to tell which of those 2000 IP addresses recently connected to the Tor network. Your ISP can see that you connect to Tor, and they keep records of that (I believe it's even mandatory). That's when your 20-40 Silk Road users will immediately jump out.
Then, they can flag the corresponding addresses and go through their mail. They'll find the ones receiving drugs in the mail. Maybe they also find bank records that show you bought bitcoin. Or they force you to take a urine test, which shows you have recently used illegal narcotics. That would make for a pretty strong case against you in court.
I already see newspaper headlines:
"OFFICIALS WINNING THE FIGHT AGAINST INTERNET DRUG DEALING; 20 PEOPLE BUSTED"
BS of course, but some very high ranked people are pissed at Silk Road, and I bet they're desperate to make arrests.
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Haha seriously? COME THE FUCK ON. What are they going to do? Even with an IP they can't just get your identity or address without a warrant, even with a warrant what are they going to do? The torrent has 2000 seeders from allover the world, I'm guessing like 20-40 people will download it from here. Are they going to start intercepting the mail from 2000 people and hope to intercept something?
You're not being overly paranoid you're just being stupid, no offense.
Pine is NOT being stupid, she isn't even being paranoid.
This is what LE could do:
When you use a torrent, your IP address is exposed to all peers. LE can simply download the torrent and scrape all IP addresses. All those people committed a crime: they pirated a movie. Everybody does it, but it's still illegal. There is your cause for a warrant.
Then they can demand the ISP to tell which of those 2000 IP addresses recently connected to the Tor network. Your ISP can see that you connect to Tor, and they keep records of that (I believe it's even mandatory). That's when your 20-40 Silk Road users will immediately jump out.
Then, they can flag the corresponding addresses and go through their mail. They'll find the ones receiving drugs in the mail. Maybe they also find bank records that show you bought bitcoin. Or they force you to take a urine test, which shows you have recently used illegal narcotics. That would make for a pretty strong case against you in court.
I already see newspaper headlines:
"OFFICIALS WINNING THE FIGHT AGAINST INTERNET DRUG DEALING; 20 PEOPLE BUSTED"
BS of course, but some very high ranked people are pissed at Silk Road, and I bet they're desperate to make arrests.
Yeah, they could do that. But they're not going to, it would never ever happen. Not even in the US. You're not being realistic.
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Yeah, they could do that. But they're not going to, it would never ever happen. Not even in the US. You're not being realistic.
Really. So at least you agree with me that by downloading this torrent, you provide LE with a way to track you down. But for some reason they're just not going to?
May I remind you that there are some very influential people pretty angry about Silk Road.
In reaction to a Gawker article on the marketplace, US Senators Charles Schumer and Joe Manchin sent a letter to US Attorney General Eric Holder and DEA Administrator Michele Leonhart insisting that the agency shut down the marketplace. In a press conference Schumer described Silk Road as follows:
"It's a certifiable one-stop shop for illegal drugs that represents the most brazen attempt to peddle drugs online that we have ever seen. It's more brazen than anything else by lightyears."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_%28marketplace%29#Reception
So we have people in the highest spheres of influence outraged at the mere existence of this site. Every day it's running, their authority is openly challenged. Because they weren't able to shut it down, they look like fools.
And you think that - when presented with the opportunity to arrest some people - they'll just pass?
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thought V was unnecessarily cruel to Evy just to prove a point.
Peace
TWM
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have seen it twice its really nice movie to discuss about :)
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awesome choice :)
welcome back, also, DPR mate
liesistruth
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I just started on silk road not to long ago, but this is awesome idea. So happy to be a part of this :D
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Natalie Portman is fucking FIT.
What do Brits mean when they say this? Does it mean you think her body is fit, like in good shape? Or does it mean she is sexy?
It's just another word for someone that is physically attractive really, I've seen it been used for people that are attractive but not actually physically fit.
Thanks! I have only seen it in movies and on TV so I couldn't be entirely sure. +1
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Hey guys, I just wanted to know why everyone seems to be so worked up about the torrent. Within that time frame thousands of people would have downloaded the movie, and nevermind that. You're using Tor browser, you know how to use google! someone had to have thought about this: http://bit.ly/TMutgs (LMGTFY link), http://btguard.com/ (obvious answer to your problems.)
Many thanks for that!!! 8)
It really is foolish to download a torrent without at least a Proxy. All major torrent downloads are currently having IP's logged and stored in the cloud for later analysis. With the kinds of Computing Power that the authorities have and the resources at their disposal it is imperative that Silk Road users begin to take their own online security seriously.
Remember you are not just ordinary members of the public - you are members of the Silk Road Community and as such are A TARGET for LE and worse.
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I hope this movie night is DPR's attempt to plant seeds in our minds for his next plan: to overthrow the worlds' government.. man that would be awesome.
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And away we go...
settle in, grab some snacks, grab your DOC, grab your fav peeps. I for one am really looking forward to some down-time movie watching with everyone after a stressful week.
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Had this on DVR, so I'm watching this AGAIN--yay for SR friends with whom to discuss this amazing work of art!
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Still downloading. Thanks AXXO.
DPR when I was a kid I learned to pop my own paper grocery bag full of popcorn and sneak it in to the theatre.
Nothing like Bootleg Homebrew Popcorn.
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Still downloading. Thanks AXXO.
DPR when I was a kid I learned to pop my own paper grocery bag full of popcorn and sneak it in to the theatre.
Nothing like Bootleg Homebrew Popcorn.
You were a far better child than I. I learned how to sneak Vodka into movies in Bell jars and get looped before mom picked me up 90 minutes later....if they'd allowed smoking, I probably would've figured out how to hide the smell of a blunt. Hint for other bad children: it's easy to hide a 6 pack of beer in the arms and pockets of a heavy coat, but the people around you will most likely NOT appreciate the sound of a pop-top. Use bottles--no noise!! ;)
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Im watching on here and im leaving the torrent up for entirety of my viewing. Got bluetooth stereo headset, some ganj and a bit of state sponsored liquor. gonna sit in the lving room and wait for the crowd to roll through make some loot and order some chinese delivery. Lots of beef, CHX, PineApple, Petraeus Style.
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"The blowing up of a building can change the world..." Was that V saying that, or W?
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DPR My friend. My fellow. My compadre. Your work is being witnessed. Someone is measuring it... and saying it's incredible. Many thanks.
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Must be Friday and the whole office ordered from the Road. 8)
Whose going to mail B.O.B a Half Oz of Rocker's Shroomz?
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By the Way its been 4 years since Bush and still no 9/11 investigation. And how come the Patriot act is still legal? And about Guantanamo its still operating.
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Vin Laden is d3ad.
Vin Laden died for our sins.
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Prescripture Entitlements. Prescriptions Prevail.
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Yeah, this movie was made before Vin Laden was d3ad. 2006. Or was it? And what diff does that make when we all know what REALLY happened to those buildings?
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Vin Laden is d3ad.
Vin Laden died for our sins.
He MAY be d3ad, he MAY have been killed while we sinned, but I have my doubts about how ANY of that happened.
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Always question everything. Something we don't do enough.
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Always question everything. Something we don't do enough.
Ditto, for sure.
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The blatant misspelling of dead points to the fraud of it all. I was just having fun with Robert Anton Wilsons quote "King Kong died for your sins.".
Vin Laden is d3ad.
Vin Laden died for our sins.
He MAY be d3ad, he MAY have been killed while we sinned, but I have my doubts about how ANY of that happened.
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The blatant misspelling of dead points to the fraud of it all. I was just having fun with Robert Anton Wilsons quote "King Kong died for your sins.".
Vin Laden is d3ad.
Vin Laden died for our sins.
Durp....ya got me there. ;)
He MAY be d3ad, he MAY have been killed while we sinned, but I have my doubts about how ANY of that happened.
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In the Morning Guitmo Nation.
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Anyone else want to get their hands on some of V's roses? DPR, who can find us cuttings of THAT?
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vb5piz39.onion I recite it all the time. Governments quiver when they hear that address.
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Okay, my version is over--anyone else? Discussion, anyone? It was my 6th or 7th viewing, and it makes me appreciate SR every single time. Even before I knew SR existed! I won't post any spoilers, in case anyone else isn't through watching. Thank you, DPR, for the suggestion!
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What a flick! I got so engrossed I forgot to chat with you guys while I was watching. Loved the part where the talk-show host guy made fun of the chancelor. Loved the moment the crowd passed the front line of the guards. Many inspiring moments reminding me how powerful we are.
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I think Americans and people all over the world are discovering that there is strength in numbers. Yes, pushing past the guards is awesome. IRL it hasn't been that easy. So the question I ask is, "Do we REALLY have to be flayed by flames, stripped of all we "are" or hope to become in order to actually change the consciousness that imprisons us currently?" I know I've fought the good fight my entire life because it's who I am. But we age, and as soon as young people in this country truly understood how LONG this fight takes--that, unlike the movie, it takes EVERYONE to stand up and say, "NO MORE!"--it seems like the youth gave up and went home, defeated by the HIGHLY ARMED few. Any thoughts?
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Well I gotta say Adam Curry and John C Dvorak have got quite a PodCast and it is right on top of everything. Its truly V standards.
noagendashow.com
In the Morning Guitmo Nation we are all charged up to be.
Human Resources and servants in all lands and all ships at sea.
From the East to West DownUnder too.. the Lowlands and beyond.
We are happy and distracted slaves. Hear our GuitmoNation Song.
In The Morning.
The Best PodCast in the Universe.
Nuff Said.
8)
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I've watched it many times. VERY SLIGHT SPOILER ALERT
A dark unintended comedic part: Gay but closeted Talk-Show host keeps a Koran - even tho this act alone could get him killed - In REALITY Gays are hung (as in killed and murdered) if they're found out in countries where the Koranic government rules like Iran and Saudi Arabia. So this scene is a little bit like a Jew who says in 1930s Germany, "I would rather die than give up my copy of Mein Kumf!" ;D
Same character explains to Portman that he's not Muslim, he says, but he finds the poetry moving and the drawings inspirational. I wonder if he means the admonition to kill and subdue all non-believers with the sword, or the drawings showing the Big Mo cutting off 600-900 Jewish heads in the Kariza massacre?
Hollywood bimbos making great movies, except I see the V world as portrayed totally UPSIDE-down from a present-day POLITICAL reality: It is the Progressive/Socialist agenda that has the unending thirst for government control and power, all the rules (another 6000 regulations were put in by Obama), all the government influenced/controlled media that twists, covers and runs interference for him as if they're on his payroll; the alliance between Google and the WH means that govt agencies will have access to every email you ever sent, every download and your websurf-history. 8) They're after control of the internet, your personal weapons and the "thought-police" - what you think and what you dare - and dont dare - say. 8) Every woman and every man who takes a penis in his mouth has more rights than you do, and if you think these social programs have REALLY and TRULY HELPED the African-American ethnic group, then I guess I shot heroin with blacks and Puerto Ricans in a different ghetto than you did.
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HANDS DOWN MY FAVORITE MOVIE OF ALL TIME!!!! ;D
I've watched it at least 10 times and it ALWAYS moves me so much, fills my heart and soul with overwhelming purpose and inspiration.
One of the few times, maybe the only time, when a movie so anti-government was so successful! That alone we must appreciate and be grateful for. In the history of the world, it has not been very common to see the state allow such popular criticism to reach the masses. Even today, I am sure the powers that be have plenty of pull in Hollywood, but this is a message they could not suppress even in the slightest bit.
The dystopia that the movie portrays is a very real possibility which is not too far away in our own real future if we don't prevent it. Governments are growing towards this more and more each year. Unfortunately though, we don't have a charismatic action-hero revolutionary, who happens to be a master of martial arts, fencing, and explosives to lead us against tyranny. :'(
One of my favorite quotes is in the beginning when after V's crazy introduction speech, Evey asks him, "Are you like a.... crazy person?" and V replies "I'm quite sure they will say so." That hits so close to home about what it's like to be a libertarian/an-cap like me. I cannot tell you how many people assume I am mentally disturbed or some degree of crazy, just because I am aware of our enslavement to the state and because I'm not easily brainwashed. Even now I know many of you reading this are already thinking to yourselves that I must be crazy. ::)
What we all need to hear, is the message V gives on the emergency channel to the whole country. He gets everyone's attention and explains to them that they, the citizens, are the real ones to blame for allowing the government to take their freedoms. For allowing tyranny to come to power to give them a false sense of security. That is exactly what is happening in the world right now! They brainwash you to trust them to protect you from "terrorists", and all you have to do in exchange is agree to give them absolute power. As V says in the speech, "But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror. "
Another part of this movie I really loved was the messages on the toilet paper from Valerie. The relationship she had with V, even though V never got to say anything back to her, is so moving. That was nothing but pure love for another human being, without any reason or even any knowledge of the person she was writing to. And how V was inspired to go on the entire vendetta, all because of her. The roses he gave to the victims and the shrine in his home, signs of how much he loved her and how all this revenge was to avenge the evil that was done to such a beautiful soul. This always reminds me of how important it is to love our fellow man in every sense of the word. How if we really are to evolve to a voluntary society, we have to have love in our hearts for each other, and eradicate senseless and unjustified hate.
To wrap up my little rambling 2 cents about this great movie, I will leave you with what may be my favorite quote from the whole movie, and a personal motto that I have stolen from V and have been trying to incorporate into my own life every day:
Evey Hammond: [reads] Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.
V: [translates] By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Evey Hammond: Personal motto?
V: From "Faust".
Evey Hammond: That's about trying to cheat the devil, isn't it?
V: It is.
:)
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Well said Inigo, and I wud like to comment on how "love" might be defined in a culture like ours. The Fascist/Socialists define it with a welfare check, but is that what you would want for YOUR 15 year-old daughter? Oh I forgot, it's not gonna be Scarlett Johansen's daughter gettin pregnant for a weldfare check, only those N-words in th eghetto, right? The raping of the African American with the creation of the ghetto is the result of the Left-wing "love" while the Dems - both black & white pols - climb to power on the broken, incarcirated, drug-addicted backs of the blacks who got tempted to give up on life and get pregnant for the welfare. Political statutory rape of an entire ethnic group, and that group - and the people who say they care for them - goes into denial and licks the hand of their rapists on election day - becoming less like equal citizens and more like dogs whimpering at the door for more. In the 'Book-that-we-cannot-mention,' there is a character called Esau, who sells the blessing to Jacob. It's like the Dems tempt young black girls (legally they're children) to give up their blessing-of-opportunity in the US for the bowl-of-porridge offered Esau.
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I like the part where V says: People shouldn't be afraid of their government, governments should be afraid of their people.
Because that's true.
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CoolG, unfortunately, Obama has taken to himself powers to have any American thrown in jail and held WITHOUT CHARGE, and under some other nebulous circumstances, can have people killed anywhere in the world. The same people who screamed bloody murder about Bush don't seem upset to give the man-who-loves-Mao this power unspeakable.
I wonder if the 'I wanna be your slave' mentality the libtards have towards their new master is a sexual thing?
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I remember when everybody who didn't support the Patriot act was siding with the terrorists. The conservative side was completely silent (with honorable exceptions) when Bush shredded the constitution.
Now Obama is doing similar things, you hear the right screaming that he is turning the country into the Soviet Union, while all those dissenting voices from the left are suddenly quiet.
It seems to me that liberty, privacy and constitutional rights are instruments of both sides when it furthers their agenda, while in reality both don't really care about it.
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A difference Cool G, is that Bush never abused it (unless you call waterboarding "torture"). I don't believe his acts after 911 are commensurate with 'shredding' the Constitution. This was a new thing, non-uniformed, non-nationalist enemy, and Bush showed restraint and also prevented alot of attacks. Obama has gone WAY further, executive privelege all over the place, they use the IRS, local sheriffs and economic pressure to stalk and mess with active high profile right-wingers, I believe they murdered Andrew Breitbart and that comedian who got under his skin, not to mention Waco, and by a kind of 'reverse-murder,' allowed the Bengazi Americans last week to be sacrificed to his Islamo pals; troops in Afganistan to be abandoned and not reinforced and in general urinated in the face of England and Israel, our best allies. This Bush did not do.
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Does anybody else have any specific thoughts or criticisms on the movie? I'd love to hear more of your opinions on the film itself! To be honest, it kind of makes me sad that with over 70 posts in this thread, so few are actually about V for Vendetta. :(
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I thought Steven Rae, who plays Finch, did an excellent job. His gradual rising doubt over the rightness of his position is well choreographed.
Even with the mask on, you can sense V's growing emotional conflict with Portman's character. Portman has that genius that just takes over every scene, and John Hurt was so good you can't wait for him to be killed.
The scene when V kills the female doctor is so well done I think Ive teared up over it a few times.
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One of my favorite quotes is in the beginning when after V's crazy introduction speech, Evey asks him, "Are you like a.... crazy person?" and V replies "I'm quite sure they will say so." That hits so close to home about what it's like to be a libertarian/an-cap like me. I cannot tell you how many people assume I am mentally disturbed or some degree of crazy, just because I am aware of our enslavement to the state and because I'm not easily brainwashed. Even now I know many of you reading this are already thinking to yourselves that I must be crazy. ::)
What we all need to hear, is the message V gives on the emergency channel to the whole country. He gets everyone's attention and explains to them that they, the citizens, are the real ones to blame for allowing the government to take their freedoms. For allowing tyranny to come to power to give them a false sense of security. That is exactly what is happening in the world right now! They brainwash you to trust them to protect you from "terrorists", and all you have to do in exchange is agree to give them absolute power. As V says in the speech, "But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror. "
- inigo
Wow great points! I agree. Are you a crazy person? Well what is really a crazy person? Just because I don't think like most other people?
This reminded me of a speech that Terence Mckenna did and titled on youtube "Schizophrenic or Shamanic?" (Clearnet link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEglHjd_gUQ). Just saying how society puts these people who are "out of the ordinary" and tells them that they need help or need some "prescriptions". When in reality they are just in touch with nature more than others. Whether Terence is right or not, I think that the philosophy behind "you think different, so you must be crazy" is wrong. Humans are weird in general lol.
I even more so agree with you on your next point of how WE are really the ones allowing others to "control" us. People are always looking for higher-ups or others more powerful than them to straighten things out and bring peace, justice, and liberty to them. But people have to realize that they are the higher-ups and are as powerful as they want to be. Nothing is stopping you from living a life that you want. We are each built with the same two legs. Same two arms. Etc. Even if your dream is put to a halt and worst case sanario you turn up dead trying. You still helped and changed your world you live in. Because others will pick up right where you left off. It really is YOU / US that makes the change.
Thanks for those great thoughts.
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I really wish I could of watched it with you all but I read the post too late. Thought it was maybe next Friday but I was wrong lol. Wasn't around to join in. But I have watched the movie at least once or twice before.
I'll gladly get some conversation started though.
How about some relations to the use of the postal system in the movie and how we use it on SR? One of the coolest most innovative parts that I found throughout the movie was when V uses the postal system to ship out THOUSANDS of masks. Clearnet link to clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyVCCD9OrbQ
We could certainly say that a system like that is utilized on SR (obviously).
What if WE could use the postal system in a way that would spread a message like V did with the masks? What would you choose to send out? Simple flyers with words? A representational revolutionary artwork (like the mask)? Maybe some of you would even send a weapon.
I don't even know what I would choose actually. I would feel the need to spread an action rather than just information. I would like to send a message for everyone to meet and simply gather. Once that is done I think the power of people simply meeting and discussing problems can turn into solutions, actions.
Just figure I try to make a question we could all discuss amongst each other.
Another one of my favorite clips from this movie is when V is surrounded and fights till the death. "WHY WONT YOU DIE!!!!" "IDEAS ARE BULLETPROOF!"
Clearnet video clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGGPufySwZ4
Great quote used by many.
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What a flick! I got so engrossed I forgot to chat with you guys while I was watching. Loved the part where the talk-show host guy made fun of the chancelor. Loved the moment the crowd passed the front line of the guards. Many inspiring moments reminding me how powerful we are.
So when do we begin project mayhem, when do we get our assignments? I can't wait to see vandalized pieces of corporate arts and franchise coffee shops blowing up, did you know you could make explosives using common household items? It's true, it was in a film. Next film night should be Fight Club! Yeah!
Sorry if this is oftopic, I just want to see stuff get blown up already!!
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I thought Steven Rae, who plays Finch, did an excellent job. His gradual rising doubt over the rightness of his position is well choreographed.
Even with the mask on, you can sense V's growing emotional conflict with Portman's character. Portman has that genius that just takes over every scene, and John Hurt was so good you can't wait for him to be killed.
The scene when V kills the female doctor is so well done I think Ive teared up over it a few times.
Absolutely! Wonderful acting!!! And I really love that part too, how he shows compassion even in revenge, killing the woman painlessly in her sleep, listening to her apology before she peacefully dies. So powerful.
One of my favorite quotes is in the beginning when after V's crazy introduction speech, Evey asks him, "Are you like a.... crazy person?" and V replies "I'm quite sure they will say so." That hits so close to home about what it's like to be a libertarian/an-cap like me. I cannot tell you how many people assume I am mentally disturbed or some degree of crazy, just because I am aware of our enslavement to the state and because I'm not easily brainwashed. Even now I know many of you reading this are already thinking to yourselves that I must be crazy. ::)
What we all need to hear, is the message V gives on the emergency channel to the whole country. He gets everyone's attention and explains to them that they, the citizens, are the real ones to blame for allowing the government to take their freedoms. For allowing tyranny to come to power to give them a false sense of security. That is exactly what is happening in the world right now! They brainwash you to trust them to protect you from "terrorists", and all you have to do in exchange is agree to give them absolute power. As V says in the speech, "But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror. "
- inigo
Wow great points! I agree. Are you a crazy person? Well what is really a crazy person? Just because I don't think like most other people?
This reminded me of a speech that Terence Mckenna did and titled on youtube "Schizophrenic or Shamanic?" (Clearnet link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEglHjd_gUQ). Just saying how society puts these people who are "out of the ordinary" and tells them that they need help or need some "prescriptions". When in reality they are just in touch with nature more than others. Whether Terence is right or not, I think that the philosophy behind "you think different, so you must be crazy" is wrong. Humans are weird in general lol.
I even more so agree with you on your next point of how WE are really the ones allowing others to "control" us. People are always looking for higher-ups or others more powerful than them to straighten things out and bring peace, justice, and liberty to them. But people have to realize that they are the higher-ups and are as powerful as they want to be. Nothing is stopping you from living a life that you want. We are each built with the same two legs. Same two arms. Etc. Even if your dream is put to a halt and worst case sanario you turn up dead trying. You still helped and changed your world you live in. Because others will pick up right where you left off. It really is YOU / US that makes the change.
Thanks for those great thoughts.
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I really wish I could of watched it with you all but I read the post too late. Thought it was maybe next Friday but I was wrong lol. Wasn't around to join in. But I have watched the movie at least once or twice before.
I'll gladly get some conversation started though.
How about some relations to the use of the postal system in the movie and how we use it on SR? One of the coolest most innovative parts that I found throughout the movie was when V uses the postal system to ship out THOUSANDS of masks. Clearnet link to clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyVCCD9OrbQ
We could certainly say that a system like that is utilized on SR (obviously).
What if WE could use the postal system in a way that would spread a message like V did with the masks? What would you choose to send out? Simple flyers with words? A representational revolutionary artwork (like the mask)? Maybe some of you would even send a weapon.
I don't even know what I would choose actually. I would feel the need to spread an action rather than just information. I would like to send a message for everyone to meet and simply gather. Once that is done I think the power of people simply meeting and discussing problems can turn into solutions, actions.
Just figure I try to make a question we could all discuss amongst each other.
Another one of my favorite clips from this movie is when V is surrounded and fights till the death. "WHY WONT YOU DIE!!!!" "IDEAS ARE BULLETPROOF!"
Clearnet video clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGGPufySwZ4
Great quote used by many.
I never thought about that in that context, I really like where your going with the idea though! How cool would that be if we could use the postal system like that?! I'd probably send everyone a copy of Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" pamphlet. But the possibilities are endless and there are so many awesome things you could do with that. If a revolution really comes, that would be such a cool stunt to pull off. Even if it were just to everybody in the Washington DC metropolitan area to encourage them all to come out for an all out overthrowing of the federal govt. Sigh, I can dream can't I? :)
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Ideas are bulletproof... BEAUTIFUL :D
I think SilkRoad is a manifestation from the idea that we are all adults and shouldn't be told what we can and cant do with our bodies and minds by a government that doesn't really care about us..
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I never thought about that in that context, I really like where your going with the idea though! How cool would that be if we could use the postal system like that?! I'd probably send everyone a copy of Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" pamphlet. But the possibilities are endless and there are so many awesome things you could do with that. If a revolution really comes, that would be such a cool stunt to pull off. Even if it were just to everybody in the Washington DC metropolitan area to encourage them all to come out for an all out overthrowing of the federal govt. Sigh, I can dream can't I? :)
I knoww!! to use the USPS...that'd be straight up bad ass 8)
I actually never read "Common Sense". No more than $3 online. So I'm ordering it! Would like to see something like that too. We can dream yes sir! But theres definitely a point when no one puts up with the bs anymore. Guess we just have to see what happens! Just like V's idea, many others have ideas that just haven't sprouted yet. I think DPR is an excellent example. Not only him/her but all of us as well since we are participants of SR. SR is a phenomenal way/idea to give people freedom of choice. Freedom to do what they want with their own bodies, not have to deal with gangs or dangerous people, and you get some of the cleanest, purest products out there here on SR. It's a dream to us almost. Amazing.
I could see "ideas" just like DPRs turn into other major events and outcomes. Never know who will pick up next and continue on with DPRs thoughts.
Ideas are bulletproof... BEAUTIFUL :D
I think SilkRoad is a manifestation from the idea that we are all adults and shouldn't be told what we can and cant do with our bodies and minds by a government that doesn't really care about us..
Right on!!!
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OK, lets start V-politics. In the movie, Muslims and gays are being discriminated against and/or killed.
I recently read that gay activists are finding out names of donors to Prop 8 type of things and are threatening them and their children, harrassing them with phone calls and death threats. If you simply state you believe marriage is meant only for a man and a woman, you may be fired, certainly 'marked' at your work, and if you own a business it'll be attacked.
Muslims are extremely active with their infiltration on so many different levels of our society I dont know where to begin, simply saying 80% of our "Mideast Study Programs" at Universities all over the US are funded by Wahabbi Islamists from Saudi Arabia, and twist the truth right out of the ears of their students (US is at fault, Israel is at fault, etc). Any opposing speaker is shouted down, and our textbooks have to get an Islamic stamp of approval, in some cases refusing to allow the 911 murderers to be associated with Islam.
OUR V-March:
Our President has sealed his past from scrutiny, because such scrutiny would deny him legal entitlement to the Office he holds. V response we can make is to march by the tens of thousands to support a military occupation of the White House while the military vetting shows Obama has been born in Kenya. He is now a traitor, and all libtards that acted against his vetting are his suspected accomplices. Every appointment is rooted out, Teacher's Union and other destructive Communisto-fascist organizations' power limited if not broken.
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I don't know about anybody else, but I've been weirdly caught up in the whole bbc drama going on over in England...(also reading that 3rd volume in Manchester's biography of Churchill--I"m a bit of an anglophile, I guess) having to do with Jimmy Savile being outed as a bigtime *longtime* pedophile, and bbc is caught up in it...big scandal over there...and anyway, in light of that, I"ve been seeing V again, and man it touches on so much stuff of that nature, things being swept under the carpet, so I'm kind of stunned watching the movie now, knowing all the shit going on in England...wondered if anybody else had got that connection? I'm used to that kind of crap in the US...I don't know why it bothers me more over there...shit like that happens everywhere, but this guy, Jimmy Savile, he died a year or so ago, but he was like this well-loved 'kind of' figure on tv...reminds me a little of Dick Clark, only weirder...and apparently he's been diddling young girls and *maybe* the bbc has covered it up...and they've been catching other celebrities and such...anyway, I"ll finish V again, see if I come up with anything concrete, or this is just my methadone kicking in ;)
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OK, lets start V-politics. In the movie, Muslims and gays are being discriminated against and/or killed.
I recently read that gay activists are finding out names of donors to Prop 8 type of things and are threatening them and their children, harrassing them with phone calls and death threats. If you simply state you believe marriage is meant only for a man and a woman, you may be fired, certainly 'marked' at your work, and if you own a business it'll be attacked.
Muslims are extremely active with their infiltration on so many different levels of our society I dont know where to begin, simply saying 80% of our "Mideast Study Programs" at Universities all over the US are funded by Wahabbi Islamists from Saudi Arabia, and twist the truth right out of the ears of their students (US is at fault, Israel is at fault, etc). Any opposing speaker is shouted down, and our textbooks have to get an Islamic stamp of approval, in some cases refusing to allow the 911 murderers to be associated with Islam.
OUR V-March:
Our President has sealed his past from scrutiny, because such scrutiny would deny him legal entitlement to the Office he holds. V response we can make is to march by the tens of thousands to support a military occupation of the White House while the military vetting shows Obama has been born in Kenya. He is now a traitor, and all libtards that acted against his vetting are his suspected accomplices. Every appointment is rooted out, Teacher's Union and other destructive Communisto-fascist organizations' power limited if not broken.
This is not the first message I read from you that gives me a feeling that you hate gays and Muslims or at least have something against these people. I find this hurting and I want to remind you that anyone could me born gay or Muslim, me or you. In every group of people there are people that behave like shit and do bad things. I'm sure you do belong into many such groups yourself? This does not mean that it's right to generalize and think that the whole group is like that. Also, it's wrong to hate a single individual from this group if/ as he has nothing to do with the shit that some other in this group has done. Also, there is different ways to believe and interpret "holy books" like the Koran or the Bible.
I hope that I don't have to read hate speech like this on this forum again. All good to you!
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Heroin lover, Im talking about the depiction of homosexuality and Islam in the movie as being the "victim." You cant watch the movie and deny that, can you? I find it remarkable that the people so portrayed in the movie are in reality quite aggressive: there's hardly a conflict in the world that's not Islamic: Bosnia, Fiji, Chechneya, Mideast, Europe, England, 911 and Ft Hood here, I could list forever. The gays are also extremely hostile and aggressive in their beligerant attitude. They can't stand the light of truth: That for many so-called "gays," what you have is a male seeking to reflect his dynamism of difficulty; i.e., an urge to be emasculated, controlled, degraded, made submissive or to be the male doing that sexually to another male. This is no male looking for a monogamous relationship. This is an obsessive queer/fairy/limp-wrist who is only free from anxiety when he's got a penis in his mouth. Sex is like heroin in that case. It's a temporary "fix" to a problem he doesn't wish to admit needs fixing.
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1st of all "People shouldn't be afraid of their government, governments should be afraid of their people." so true what will we do about it tho?!?!
awesome idea DPR can i suggest fight club the book as a follow on!
Heroin lover, Im talking about the depiction of homosexuality and Islam in the movie as being the "victim." You cant watch the movie and deny that, can you? I find it remarkable that the people so portrayed in the movie are in reality quite aggressive: there's hardly a conflict in the world that's not Islamic: Bosnia, Fiji, Chechneya, Mideast, Europe, England, 911 and Ft Hood here, I could list forever. The gays are also extremely hostile and aggressive in their beligerant attitude. They can't stand the light of truth: That for many so-called "gays," what you have is a male seeking to reflect his dynamism of difficulty; i.e., an urge to be emasculated, controlled, degraded, made submissive or to be the male doing that sexually to another male. This is no male looking for a monogamous relationship. This is an obsessive queer/fairy/limp-wrist who is only free from anxiety when he's got a penis in his mouth. Sex is like heroin in that case. It's a temporary "fix" to a problem he doesn't wish to admit needs fixing.
Been a while since i saw that movie but I think in essence this movie is about censorship and that the common person just accepts what the government tells them and go along with it. When u talk of islamic conflicts, how much do u know about them? including Palestine, bosnia, burma, india to name what i know. muslims r being outwardly persecuted wether u get that news on cnn or bbc (government broadcasted channels) is a different story... remember as the movie shows; media is the mass controller of people and a way to communicate whatever message they want on a broad scale
then u got 911 the taliban slant on that was to increase awarneess of bosnia n tribulations there. western slant was this ex cia tactician is a boggy man n countries needed to be bombed, families killled n taken over. did they really? did they do anything apart from steal from the countries and then impose democracy?
n w the gay ppl talk at the end of the day in all honesty, i dont like seeing gay guys do thier stuff. is that because society (in my day n area) told me over n over its wrong or an innate thing in me that says isnt right. i dunno... but i do know im a dirt dog myself in my own depraved ways. who am i to say oh look at this person they are doing something wrong... u prolly support freedom of speech but then at the same time want to deny these ppl of being able to do what they want behind close doors. what u say about them being fairies and limp wrist. what about (want for a better word) the man in the relationship... like i say i dont like watching what they do but im guessing they dont all come equipped w double ended dildos.... CJ w all due respect u seem quite narrow minded in ur views. i realised when i was like 14 to group ppl together n judge them before u know them is weak as fuck. u should expand a lil, read outside of the hate pdfs u prolly have been reading.
on a final note we all know who controls the media and hollywood n as far as i no they're not big fans of muslims or gays....
pease n stay bliss ppl!
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<snip>
Sex is like heroin in that case. It's a temporary "fix" to a problem he doesn't wish to admit needs fixing.
Kind of generalizing about heroin more than I find comfortable (of course I defend your right to do that...*but:*) those of us like me, who've been heroin users 'off and on' for a long long time, see it as strictly a *legal* problem. Until it's legal for me to get, I don't see how anybody can see it as something 'we don't want to admit needs fixing.' I just need people to quit trying to dictate what goes in my body. Don't need to admit shit.
When I was young, I was repeatedly labeled a criminal...then, over the years, in areas where the left got power, they eventually same me as 'sick,' the same way your post implies, and that I can't get 'better' until I admit I"m 'sick.' Who the fuck gives themselves the power to decide whether or not I'm 'sick?'
I find life much better with heroin...curse of it, is that we have such a Calvinist mentality in most of the West, that we just can't stand anything legal which gives so much pleasure. Hell, in the US they tried making alcohol illegal, mostly do to Christians in politics....and now, some states, feeling all wonderful about themselves, say we are sick, and want to send us to treatment and a 12 step program....and then, as before, off to jail...
So I certainly don't admit I've got a 'problem that needs fixing.' What I have is a country full of people and politicians who've lost sight of what our founding fathers were most afraid of: repressive gov't.
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Jimmy Savile being outed as a bigtime *longtime* pedophile, and bbc is caught up in it.
I'm going to expose myself as a pedantic bastard here but one of the main things that has bothered me about all this is the use of the term paedophile. From what I know of the story I don't think he did anything to anyone under the age of 13 so technically he is an ephebephile (attracted to mid-to-late adolescents 14-19 yrs) or a hebephile (attracted to pubescent 11-14 yr olds) instead.
I know this seems like splitting hairs but the point is he is mis-labelled as a paedophile as its a more loaded word. People can hate a paedophile but they'd have to stop, think and ask some uncomfortable questions if he was labelled an ephebephile.
Most healthy men will find adolescent girls (14-19) attractive. Its evolution, we've evolved to be attracted to signs of fertility which show at that age. Some countries even have an age of consent as low as 14 or 12. By calling him a paedophile the media is demonising any guy that finds late adolescents attractive which will be the majority.
I do not support Savile or any sexual advances towards people under the age of consent. I'm not a pervert trying to defend this kind of behaviour I just think its interesting how these things are 'framed' for the public.
but this guy, Jimmy Savile, he died a year or so ago, but he was like this well-loved 'kind of' figure on tv...reminds me a little of Dick Clark, only weirder...and apparently he's been diddling young girls and *maybe* the bbc has covered it up...and they've been catching other celebrities and such
Its a bit of a witch hunt now, if you're a man that worked at the BBC during the 70's your name is being dragged through the papers, unsubstantiated rumours are being thrown around and you will be taken in for questioning.
In fairness people had been saying stuff about Savile throughout his life but it was all ignored or covered up. A lot of this now is about damage limitation for those involved, finding scapegoats and avoiding the connections to parliament and government being exposed as well.
This story shows a lot of themes covered in V for Vendetta.
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I'm going to expose myself as a pedantic bastard here but one of the main things that has bothered me about all this is the use of the term paedophile. From what I know of the story I don't think he did anything to anyone under the age of 13 so technically he is an ephebephile (attracted to mid-to-late adolescents 14-19 yrs) or a hebephile (attracted to pubescent 11-14 yr olds) instead.
I know this seems like splitting hairs but the point is he is mis-labelled as a paedophile as its a more loaded word. People can hate a paedophile but they'd have to stop, think and ask some uncomfortable questions if he was labelled an ephebephile.
Most healthy men will find adolescent girls (14-19) attractive. Its evolution, we've evolved to be attracted to signs of fertility which show at that age. Some countries even have an age of consent as low as 14 or 12. By calling him a paedophile the media is demonising any guy that finds late adolescents attractive which will be the majority.
I do not support Savile or any sexual advances towards people under the age of consent. I'm not a pervert trying to defend this kind of behaviour I just think its interesting how these things are 'framed' for the public.
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Its a bit of a witch hunt now, if you're a man that worked at the BBC during the 70's your name is being dragged through the papers, unsubstantiated rumours are being thrown around and you will be taken in for questioning.
In fairness people had been saying stuff about Savile throughout his life but it was all ignored or covered up. A lot of this now is about damage limitation for those involved, finding scapegoats and avoiding the connections to parliament and government being exposed as well.
This story shows a lot of themes covered in V for Vendetta.
Actually, I kind of agree with both your points, especially the witch-hunt aspects. It's fascinating, but still, often plain old wrong. We're doing a bit of imposting this century's newfound morality on people who lived in a time when the standards were different, paticularly towards teenage girls. I regret using the term 'pedophile' as it now brings up all kinds of presumptions of guilt and the press love it.
In the US, if you're a single guy over the age of thirty, you can't hardly even be friendly to young kids as some furious woman is bound to give you the evil eye. I had it happen to me at the beach, some kid lost, and I started to take him to the lifeguard station and some woman just came up running and snatched him away and gave me the ugliest look I"ve ever had: never even occurred to her to talk to me, or ask me, or even treat me as human. It was extremely painful for me, and I've seen countless evidence of this...I've read somewhere that pedophile is not any more common than it ever was, but that the media hypes any incident of it up, to where people with children now trust no one...and teach their kids that too...good reason to live elsewhere...
I do think Jimmy was a cad tho, no matter how you cut it, and I"ve also read how lots of people over the disliked him while it was going on, but I've always liked the BBC and that's the part I find strange, as it's done so much good, almost like people want to find scapegoats here....
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Sex is like heroin in that case. It's a temporary "fix" to a problem he doesn't wish to admit needs fixing.
Kind of generalizing about heroin more than I find comfortable (of course I defend your right to do that...*but:*) those of us like me, who've been heroin users 'off and on' for a long long time, see it as strictly a *legal* problem. Until it's legal for me to get, I don't see how anybody can see it as something 'we don't want to admit needs fixing.' I just need people to quit trying to dictate what goes in my body. Don't need to admit shit.
When I was young, I was repeatedly labeled a criminal...then, over the years, in areas where the left got power, they eventually same me as 'sick,' the same way your post implies, and that I can't get 'better' until I admit I"m 'sick.' Who the fuck gives themselves the power to decide whether or not I'm 'sick?'
I find life much better with heroin...curse of it, is that we have such a Calvinist mentality in most of the West, that we just can't stand anything legal which gives so much pleasure. Hell, in the US they tried making alcohol illegal, mostly do to Christians in politics....and now, some states, feeling all wonderful about themselves, say we are sick, and want to send us to treatment and a 12 step program....and then, as before, off to jail...
So I certainly don't admit I've got a 'problem that needs fixing.' What I have is a country full of people and politicians who've lost sight of what our founding fathers were most afraid of: repressive gov't.
Could not agree more. This is the same experience I have as a heroin user. I know best myself what is good or bad for me and I am not hurting anybody. Still I have to be afraid of being labelled sick or unmoral and be "in the closet" as a heroin user (and yes, as a sexual minority person etc). My loved ones could leave me, I could be denied of healthcare (pain medication, therapy...), I could go to jail, loose my job etc. The list goes on. Even my family and many of my best friends don't know I use because I am too afraid to tell them. Still heroin makes my life quality better.
It hurts me to everyday have to face all these stereotypes and hate people have against many groups I belong to. How can you accept yourself if the world doesn't accept you?
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I also want to comment more specifically on the movie as I too watched it. I think it was inspiring and it gets you in the revolution mood. ;) Of course there is also many things I'm worried about if/when we would have a revolution like that.
First of all, I strongly believe in nonviolence myself. I can't help thinking that a person is not better than his/her acts. I think the way we threat our enemies tells a lot about us. Could we have a revolution like this without violence? Would it be harder? Maybe it would be even easier to get people with us? There do exists some very interesting historical examples of nonviolent revolutions. This is a very important aspect for me, as I personally think I could not be part of violent revolution.. On the other hand I think there's situations that undoubtedly justify to break laws or for example perform sabotage.
Then one problem is that there's a lot of people that want a revolution but maybe for different reasons. How do you act in a situation where everyone wants different things after the revolution? Sometimes some of the people even want a totally opposite world than other groups that take part in the same revolution... Is it possible (or right) to do a revolution if the people don't want it? What kind of revolution do people want?
Happy revolution! ;)
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Heroin lover, Im talking about the depiction of homosexuality and Islam in the movie as being the "victim." You cant watch the movie and deny that, can you? I find it remarkable that the people so portrayed in the movie are in reality quite aggressive: there's hardly a conflict in the world that's not Islamic: Bosnia, Fiji, Chechneya, Mideast, Europe, England, 911 and Ft Hood here, I could list forever. The gays are also extremely hostile and aggressive in their beligerant attitude. They can't stand the light of truth: That for many so-called "gays," what you have is a male seeking to reflect his dynamism of difficulty; i.e., an urge to be emasculated, controlled, degraded, made submissive or to be the male doing that sexually to another male. This is no male looking for a monogamous relationship. This is an obsessive queer/fairy/limp-wrist who is only free from anxiety when he's got a penis in his mouth. Sex is like heroin in that case. It's a temporary "fix" to a problem he doesn't wish to admit needs fixing.
Been a while since i saw that movie but I think in essence this movie is about censorship and that the common person just accepts what the government tells them and go along with it. When u talk of islamic conflicts, how much do u know about them? including Palestine, bosnia, burma, india to name what i know. muslims r being outwardly persecuted wether u get that news on cnn or bbc (government broadcasted channels) is a different story... remember as the movie shows; media is the mass controller of people and a way to communicate whatever message they want on a broad scale
then u got 911 the taliban slant on that was to increase awarneess of bosnia n tribulations there. western slant was this ex cia tactician is a boggy man n countries needed to be bombed, families killled n taken over. did they really? did they do anything apart from steal from the countries and then impose democracy?
n w the gay ppl talk at the end of the day in all honesty, i dont like seeing gay guys do thier stuff. is that because society (in my day n area) told me over n over its wrong or an innate thing in me that says isnt right. i dunno... but i do know im a dirt dog myself in my own depraved ways. who am i to say oh look at this person they are doing something wrong... u prolly support freedom of speech but then at the same time want to deny these ppl of being able to do what they want behind close doors. what u say about them being fairies and limp wrist. what about (want for a better word) the man in the relationship... like i say i dont like watching what they do but im guessing they dont all come equipped w double ended dildos.... CJ w all due respect u seem quite narrow minded in ur views. i realised when i was like 14 to group ppl together n judge them before u know them is weak as fuck. u should expand a lil, read outside of the hate pdfs u prolly have been reading.
on a final note we all know who controls the media and hollywood n as far as i no they're not big fans of muslims or gays....
pease n stay bliss ppl!
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Dear ck, it fits that you jump in here without seeing the movie, which you "think" is about censorship. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I suggest you get the DVD :Islam, What the West Should Know," and perhaps I could suggest this as a DVD for this forum. I have lived in the Mideast for 4 years, and have studied the utter barbaric imperialism of Islam at length. If u think 911 had anuything to do with Israel, Bosnia, etc., Puhleeeeze, your lack of understanding of Islam is legion. The idea that Hollywood is against Gays and Muslims, what films can you point to? You are completely upside down. Every Muslim is portrayed as a victim, every gay is really courageous, sensitive, intelligent and forgiving. Whats not to like, right?
As far as homosexuals, it has NOTHING to do with BEING BORN THAT WAY. Traumatic events in the child's experience embeds a twisting of the roles of masculine/feminine, and my objection to that behavior HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THEY DO "behind closed doors." It has everything to do with ADOPTION (which for them is like renting a kid), and dominated the minds - and other parts - of our children in school.
As far as heroin not being a "fix," I was addicted to heroin, I shot coke and gave head to strangers through the rush, and you sound like you really havent learned all that much in this life. I don't deny you your heroin. I think you should be able to buy it legally. To say that its the same as chewing gum, however, simply a choice, well, i respect your RIGHT to choose it, but to deny you're getting 'hooked' and that this will be a mo-fo to get out of is not being realistic.
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I also want to comment more specifically on the movie as I too watched it. I think it was inspiring and it gets you in the revolution mood. ;) Of course there is also many things I'm worried about if/when we would have a revolution like that.
First of all, I strongly believe in nonviolence myself. I can't help thinking that a person is not better than his/her acts. I think the way we threat our enemies tells a lot about us. Could we have a revolution like this without violence? Would it be harder? Maybe it would be even easier to get people with us? There do exists some very interesting historical examples of nonviolent revolutions. This is a very important aspect for me, as I personally think I could not be part of violent revolution.. On the other hand I think there's situations that undoubtedly justify to break laws or for example perform sabotage.
Then one problem is that there's a lot of people that want a revolution but maybe for different reasons. How do you act in a situation where everyone wants different things after the revolution? Sometimes some of the people even want a totally opposite world than other groups that take part in the same revolution... Is it possible (or right) to do a revolution if the people don't want it? What kind of revolution do people want?
Happy revolution! ;)
You've raised important points. What if a revolution divides instead of uniting? It reminds me of this russian KGB agent Uri Bezmenov (he's on youtube) who talks about how 70% of what these secret services do for their governments is aimed at swaying public opinion both nationally and overseas (in order to overthrow governments), a potent form of psychological warfare modelled off of Sun Tzu's "art of war" tactics of winning over the enemy without direct violence, but through relentless and persistent ideological subversion. The tactic of ideological subversion relies heavily on dividing a nation into a chaotic state of warring sub-revolutions, destroying the cohesion of an entire nation and thus their most powerful weapon of all which is unity. This is why I believe if there is to be a true uprising, it must be completely spiritual, people have to realise that the root of conflict is the evil that is at odds with its co-creating good within the individual man, that the image of the evil man is made in our own image as Carl Jung (the psychiatrist not the poster above me ;D) preached.
I must be the odd one out here but.. I for one thought V for Vendetta was OKAY as a generic action movie, but the SUBTEXT man, its all about the subtext.. and I think that's where Alan Moore is the true scribe of my anarchy-craving heart. If you haven't read the comic book you definitely owe it to yourself, I don't even consider the movie when I think of the book, it's its own definitive experience.
Relating back to your post Heroinlover, and to V for Vendetta in general, here is a very nice quote from a dialogue between V and Eve near the end of the book:
V: There's but one floor to go, if you could carry one of these small parcels, I'd be grateful... But take care.
Evey: Sure. What's in them?
V: Gelignite.
Evey: Gelignite? Oh jesus... V, I'm not helping with any killing, what are you planning to do with it?
V: Dispose of it. After all, as you point out, you won't be needing it. Anarchy wears two faces, both creator and destroyer. Thus destroyers topple empires: make a canvas of clean rubble where creators can then build a better world. Rubble, once achieved, makes further ruins' means irrelevant. Away with our explosives, then! Away with our destroyers! They have no place within our better world. But let us raise a toast to all our bombers, all our bastards, most unlovely and most unforgivable. Let's drink their health ...then meet with them no more.
So, as V points out, I believe that half revolution relies of violence, but after this point, if we do not want society to tumble into something MUCH WORSE, there needs to be some sort of spiritual/artistic/ideological whatever you want to call it seeds planted to unite us in the common feelings and experiences of what it means to be a human being.
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I have some very pressing security concerns with linking to a torrent file. When you use bittorrent software, your IP address is exposed to all peers using that same Torrent.
That provides a very real security risk; LE wouldn't even need a warrant to get a list of IP addresses. They can simply download that Torrent and scrape the IP address from all the peers.
It's a good movie but I suggest you buy a dvd and pay cash. It's an old movie so it will be just a few bucks.
Don't touch that torrent file!!!
What you said is true, but you dont HAVE to expose your real IP to everyone. If you're smart enough to use Tor then your smart enough to direct bittorent traffic through a proxy.
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"There isn't time for fear, for me or anyone. We've things to do..."
Enjoyed the movie and enjoyed the book even more.
One thing one member of the ILF has always wondered, though, is what exactly everyone is going to do at the end after Downing St. is blown to bits and the people are standing around looking hard in their Anonymous masks, lol. So, to piggyback off the points that HeroinLover and DarkPastry have already made: it would seem that, if we are going to create a new society (or perhaps an ancient one, if hunter-gatherer societies were as cool as primitivists tend to paint them), then we need to starting *doing* so now. If the State were to be magically smashed tomorrow, but we haven't learned anything collectively, we might be doomed to simply re-create it.
That's why things like the Road, workers' co-ops, and, hell, even the Occupy movement, matter so much. They give people a chance to re-imagine their daily lives without the State, without masters, but with their own autonomy and dignity.
So Moore's story is ultimately like Romeo & Juliet: a great love story, but one that doesn't tell us what to do after we've fallen in love: how to maintain the love and fall in love again!
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Looking forward to this! I've seen the movie several times allready but not recently, so should be interesting nonetheless
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Jimmy Savile being outed as a bigtime *longtime* pedophile, and bbc is caught up in it.
I'm going to expose myself as a pedantic bastard here but one of the main things that has bothered me about all this is the use of the term paedophile. From what I know of the story I don't think he did anything to anyone under the age of 13 so technically he is an ephebephile (attracted to mid-to-late adolescents 14-19 yrs) or a hebephile (attracted to pubescent 11-14 yr olds) instead.
I know this seems like splitting hairs but the point is he is mis-labelled as a paedophile as its a more loaded word. People can hate a paedophile but they'd have to stop, think and ask some uncomfortable questions if he was labelled an ephebephile.
Most healthy men will find adolescent girls (14-19) attractive. Its evolution, we've evolved to be attracted to signs of fertility which show at that age. Some countries even have an age of consent as low as 14 or 12. By calling him a paedophile the media is demonising any guy that finds late adolescents attractive which will be the majority.
I do not support Savile or any sexual advances towards people under the age of consent. I'm not a pervert trying to defend this kind of behaviour I just think its interesting how these things are 'framed' for the public.
but this guy, Jimmy Savile, he died a year or so ago, but he was like this well-loved 'kind of' figure on tv...reminds me a little of Dick Clark, only weirder...and apparently he's been diddling young girls and *maybe* the bbc has covered it up...and they've been catching other celebrities and such
Its a bit of a witch hunt now, if you're a man that worked at the BBC during the 70's your name is being dragged through the papers, unsubstantiated rumours are being thrown around and you will be taken in for questioning.
In fairness people had been saying stuff about Savile throughout his life but it was all ignored or covered up. A lot of this now is about damage limitation for those involved, finding scapegoats and avoiding the connections to parliament and government being exposed as well.
This story shows a lot of themes covered in V for Vendetta.
I've been having this discussion with my girlfriend for weeks now, had no idea there was such a thing as an 'ephebephile', but i had hoped there was a distinction.
Another friend of mine came very close to being put on a register for having sex with a 15 yr old girl he met in a nightclub (in the UK btw, 16 is the age of consent) and nearly had his life ruined by being labeled a pedophile after her dad found out and called the police.
I think Jimmy Saville was a disturbed, weird and disgusting person, and i have done since i saw the program Louis Theroux did with him, but to label a man who has sex with 15, 14, even perhaps 13 year old girls, the same as one who abuses (and i feel sick even writing this) a 3 or 4 year old is, in my opinion, wrong.
I'm just glad i found a word for the distinction, because my friend is a good guy, and to think he would have been labelled the same as some of these fucking freaks that abuse young children is...well....sickening.
Just my 2 cents.
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I think what jimmy saville did was disgusting.
On the flip side of the coin though, did you see that 15 year old girl that teacher ran away to France with?
How the fuck can you tell a girls age these days, most of those at that end of the age scale look like they are going out to a fucking night club when they are walking to school.
I'm not defending pedophilia, hell no, but you cannot blame a guy for showing a certain interest!
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lol, I already have the movie on my external hard drive but I'm going to go ahead and download it again from the torrent DPR linked, to any LE that reads this, I'm in Europe, I will be commencing the download at about 22:00 GMT, come and get me.
Yeah I like to live dangerously..
(Seriously though, you guys aren't being overly paranoid, you're being outright stupid)
No LE agency in the world is going to do what ProudCannabian suggested, I know that and DPR knows that.
Last Active: December 06, 2012, 09:53 PM
Posting random shit until two weeks ago then suddenly stops?
Did you get your wish? ???