Silk Road forums
Market => Product offers => Topic started by: Draco Red on October 24, 2012, 12:00 am
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Ahoy, new to SR and thinking about getting a seller account; but first wanted to gauge interest in a product I'm working on. What I'm working on is an external USB harddrive that comes encased in thermite with an flip switch electronic ignition system.
The enclosure would look like any normal external harddrive but have an extra switch on it, you flip the switch and it turns from peace of computer equipment to ball of death and fire. I've seen a lot of people talking about destroying harddrives with thermite before, but for the most part it's just talk since thermite is so hard to ignite that it's impractical to do unless you've got a lot of warning.
Already perfected the binder to plasticize the thermite and am in the prototyping stage for the ignition system, but was wondering if anyone was interested.
Thanks,
Draco Red
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Umm Im sure you will find someone, seems interesting.
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I think there would definitely be some kind of a market, albeit a smallish one. How would you keep the hard drive surrounded by thermite and still keep the hard drive cool enough to function well though?
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Encrypting it with true crypt would be much faster, easier, more practical in general. Better chance selling this to Hollywood!
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I handle my hard drive destruction in a similar manner. I use tupperware though with a 9v battery on a switch and a 3" strip of magnesium in the tupperware.
I can't really see a market for something like this as the people who would use such a device are likely already in possession of it.
Just my $0.02
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Shipping will be an issue.
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I think there would definitely be some kind of a market, albeit a smallish one. How would you keep the hard drive surrounded by thermite and still keep the hard drive cool enough to function well though?
I'll have to check out the thermal characteristics of the thermite with the binding agent added, but since thermite is made of different metals it should act as a heatsink. My idea is to use a 2.5" harddrive in a 3.5" enclosure, which would give a lot of room to work with.
Encrypting it with true crypt would be much faster, easier, more practical in general. Better chance selling this to Hollywood!
Truecrypt is all well and good, but at least in the US there have been a number of cases where people have been jailed indefinitely for refusing to turn over or "forgetting" their encryption key; under the guise of contempt of court. If the data is destroyed then you can't be compelled to give it over, no matter what duress you're put under. Not sure what the going time is for destruction of evidence, but having a number for you and a lawyer to work with is better then "until we decide to let you go".
I handle my hard drive destruction in a similar manner. I use tupperware though with a 9v battery on a switch and a 3" strip of magnesium in the tupperware.
I can't really see a market for something like this as the people who would use such a device are likely already in possession of it.
Just my $0.02
Possibly, but to have an out-of-the-box solution would appeal to some. I don't know how to rebuild a carburetor or cook crystal meth, so I think that people who have a different area of expertise then mine might find it useful.
Shipping will be an issue.
Shouldn't be; thermite is extremely stable at room temperature; so long as the ignition system doesn't go off prematurely it should be able to be shipped without any special precautions.
Thanks for the input all; I'll update with pictures once I've got results from fine tuning the ignition system.
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Don't get me wrong, I admire your drive to bring a new product to market. I hope it works for you. When shipping though, do not include any power source :), or if you do, box it separately.. thermite going off on a post truck sets off some alarms :)
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Don't get me wrong, I admire your drive to bring a new product to market. I hope it works for you. When shipping though, do not include any power source :), or if you do, box it separately.. thermite going off on a post truck sets off some alarms :)
I was thinking along those same lines too. Might just sell it on clearnet since there's nothing inherently illegal about it, but since this is more the target market for such a device figured I'd check here first. Not sure that it would be worth investing the money to get a seller account, so may not. But for the time being I'm waiting on supplies, so eh.
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How much would one of these cost?
also, I think you might get more people on-board if it was a thermite encased flashdrive.
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How much would one of these cost?
also, I think you might get more people on-board if it was a thermite encased flashdrive.
Rough pricing as of right now would be $200 for 500GB, $225 for 1TB, $250 for 120GB SSD. Drives would be USB 3.0 and eSATA compatible.
Flash drives might be do-able but would add a fair amount of bulk to them. The electronic ignition system probably wouldn't work out with them unless you wanted to keep the battery separate. A fuse ignition system might work for them, though; I'll have to look into it.
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You could easily just take the flashdrives out of their cases and make a thermite cylinder to put them in (thus making a new thermite case). Either a fuse ignition of a separate battery would work
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This is not the first time someone has spoke of this.
I always imagine you flipping your thermite switch in your attic bedroom...and then a ultrahot fireball puddle of molten magma melts through your hard drive.....then yourdesk....then you floor...then to the 2nd floor bathroom...through that floor....into your front room......basement.
Your house is on fucking fire man!
I would LOVE to see a vid clip of your development. See the thermite do its thing.
Good Luck
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I always imagined that youd flip the switch and lob the thing out the nearest door or window.
Your neighbors will definitly think differently of you when you accidentally throw a fireball through their wall. ;D
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If you would like some external hard drives for cheap (200 shipped to the US), let me know! I have 4 or 5 I can sell you and that would give you a good start to get your business rolling. PM me on SR if you'd like to know more! I think your idea is really cool and the drives I have would give you an exceptional launching pad as there is a nice variety of sizes.
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I always thought it would be funny if you had a helium balloon ready to go that would expand super fast. Then you could attach your laptop (busily overwriting itself) to it and watch it fly out of sight. :)
Dilemma: shoot down the balloon and the laptop would smash into a thousand pieces.
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I always thought it would be funny if you had a helium balloon ready to go that would expand super fast. Then you could attach your laptop (busily overwriting itself) to it and watch it fly out of sight. :)
Dilemma: shoot down the balloon and the laptop would smash into a thousand pieces.
Right on. LOL.
In hoping the day would never come I cant help but imagine interested parties faces..as the machine floats out of sight.
Not sure they could draw weapons and shoot it down. Absolutely not in an urban setting. thats for sure.
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What you need to offer are metallic mesh bags lined with thermite. this way people can bring drugs in their car, road, festival etc. If the bag is opened with the zipper without deactivating the ignitor, a loud pop and the whole thing burns. This ignitor is non-electrical and cheap to make. I can sell plans for this for 100$ if you are interested, more of a market for this than the HD thing.
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i like the idea and will buy one but somehow with termite and using it before id like to know how you plan to set it off as id rather NOT be caught with termite on top of a dirty drive. ive melted a few drives before with termite and im telling you know its easy to set off with a blow torch but ive never tried to set it off with electricity. 500gb would be a good size. also will you offer solid state drives?
eyes are GLUED!
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CLEARNETTTTT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ckechIqW0
...curiosity satisfied. mmm Nothing like the smell of molten data in the morning!
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CLEARNETTTTT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ckechIqW0
...curiosity satisfied. mmm Nothing like the smell of molten data in the morning!
would a sparkler work to set it off?
hey i blow torch shit as i have the room but now this topic has me thinking!
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other than chemically setting it off, for a reliable ignitor I would:
Powder sparklers and buy micronized thermite mix on ebay, super fine stuff
pack it into a tube as a gradient, first put in only sparkler powder, then 80% sparkler and 20% thermite then 50/50 and then just micronized thermite. make an electrical squib and youre set.
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What you need to offer are metallic mesh bags lined with thermite. this way people can bring drugs in their car, road, festival etc. If the bag is opened with the zipper without deactivating the ignitor, a loud pop and the whole thing burns. This ignitor is non-electrical and cheap to make. I can sell plans for this for 100$ if you are interested, more of a market for this than the HD thing.
Maybe you could sell a plan to make poison from beans
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i like the idea and will buy one but somehow with termite and using it before id like to know how you plan to set it off as id rather NOT be caught with termite on top of a dirty drive. ive melted a few drives before with termite and im telling you know its easy to set off with a blow torch but ive never tried to set it off with electricity. 500gb would be a good size. also will you offer solid state drives?
eyes are GLUED!
I'm thinking of offering 500GB and 1TB conventional drives as well as a Sold State model, likely a 120GB.
The ignition system I'm working on is actually quite similar to what DrDeepWood described. You would flip a switch on the drive which would power the electric igniter (essentially a short length of resistance wire), from there to a bit of visco fuse going into a small tube of gradated ignition powder. I'll likely put in a redundant system in case one fails to ignite then the other will, just in case.
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i like the idea and will buy one but somehow with termite and using it before id like to know how you plan to set it off as id rather NOT be caught with termite on top of a dirty drive. ive melted a few drives before with termite and im telling you know its easy to set off with a blow torch but ive never tried to set it off with electricity. 500gb would be a good size. also will you offer solid state drives?
eyes are GLUED!
I'm thinking of offering 500GB and 1TB conventional drives as well as a Sold State model, likely a 120GB.
The ignition system I'm working on is actually quite similar to what DrDeepWood described. You would flip a switch on the drive which would power the electric igniter (essentially a short length of resistance wire), from there to a bit of visco fuse going into a small tube of gradated ignition powder. I'll likely put in a redundant system in case one fails to ignite then the other will, just in case.
would they consider that tampering with evidence? haha
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i like the idea and will buy one but somehow with termite and using it before id like to know how you plan to set it off as id rather NOT be caught with termite on top of a dirty drive. ive melted a few drives before with termite and im telling you know its easy to set off with a blow torch but ive never tried to set it off with electricity. 500gb would be a good size. also will you offer solid state drives?
eyes are GLUED!
I'm thinking of offering 500GB and 1TB conventional drives as well as a Sold State model, likely a 120GB.
The ignition system I'm working on is actually quite similar to what DrDeepWood described. You would flip a switch on the drive which would power the electric igniter (essentially a short length of resistance wire), from there to a bit of visco fuse going into a small tube of gradated ignition powder. I'll likely put in a redundant system in case one fails to ignite then the other will, just in case.
would they consider that tampering with evidence? haha
Yeah, but sometimes an evidence tampering charge is better then whatever they may get on you from that evidence. ;)
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As mentioned before, encryption is the best method to secure data on a drive.
I case you wanted to ensure the drive is physically destroyed though, i'm not sure thermite would be the best choice:
- it is notoriously hard to ignite reliably.
- when it does works, it will start a serious fire - and you could accidently trigger the self-destruct when fumbling around with the drive too.
I suppose the easiest solution to render a drive physically unreadable is simply to shoot through it. If it is in a laptop/desktop it would be helpful to locate where exactly the drive is so you can destroy it in a single shot without having to flip the laptop over and such.
Perhaps there is a niche market for a thermite based destruct system. Persoanlly i'd just throw the thing out of the window - living on the 15th floor that would ensure a nightmare for data-recovery staff once it hits the pavement ;) Not having that option could still allow for more practical solutions such as placing the drive in a commonly available metal sheet cutter. Once you split the platters in half there is little to no chance of recovering any data from the resulting pieces. It will not be erased as all, but piecing it together will be so expensive it will not be attempted unless it was a murder investigation or something with vitually unlimited budget to recover.
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Fair enough; the fact that it's hard to ignite is why I'm working on a reliable ignition system (key word being reliable there), and it would have to be ignited well away from anything that you didn't want to be engulfed with fire. I'll be looking at placement for the switch, and will have to use a switch with a protective cover to minimize the chance of accidental activation.
For shooting it you'll have to be careful about positioning. The bottom of the drive is a fairly heavy bit of cast aluminum, so a shotgun or a larger caber should go through, but I'm guessing that it'll stop something small like a 9mm unless you are shooting from the top of the drive. Not sure on that, I'm far more of a computer person then I am a gun one, so I'll have to defer to others expertise there.
Depending on the make and model of the drive, some use a glass substrate for the platters (such as the Hitachi Deathstar). They can shatter spontaneously, so destroying them shouldn't be a problem. Even for those that don't it's just an aluminum substrate, so they are easy to destroy.
But taking the drive apart to get at them can take some time, and I personally like the total paranoia of heating the magnetic material past its transition temperature and turning the drive into slag. Not the most practical, perhaps, but certainly one of the most fun solutions out there :D
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I think you will need to put some effort into your ignition system
To defeat a "tamper/destruction of evidence" charge, you need to show that you did not trigger the device. The best way to do that is to have the device set off by a trigger that the police would activate. Think a door alarm or something and you get the right idea. That way, when the police are breaking your door down, the device activates, since you are in a state of shock and unable to input the safe-code into the device, or otherwise disarm it (again, because you're in shock), the device will trigger and you will not be at fault for it.
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I'm seriously interested in self igniting safes. So that if the police come knocking on the door you hit a button or type in the wrong code 3 times and everything inside burns. I've thought about how this project may be done but i'm no engineer, willing to pay big bucks if anyone can make this possible.
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Although i consider the thermite solution to be a bit over the top, if you are going to go with it, some good points have been made.
If you can come up with a reliable mechanism to set off the reaction (which is no easy feat), i would suggest some options for triggers:
Provide the drive with an 'arm' switch, and accelerometers (these are now very small chips that commonly go into smartphones). Trigger the destruction if the arm switch is enabled, AND the drive is moved. The rationale behind that is that police and such are likely to 'bag' any evidence instead of doing research on the spot. Arming the destruct mechanism should, however, also at least power down the drive such that on site investigation is not feasible without disturbing the drive enclosure physically.
Disarming the mechanism should not be trivial either (as in putting the armed switch into disarmed mode). The best way is probably to use a passphrase to disarm the system, requiring a passphrase to be entered over the usb connection. This may require incorporating a hub into the drives electronics, where one port is the drive, and the other is some virtual drive that accepts the disarm code.
As for shooting a drive to destroy its contents: that can be done from either the bottom, or ideally the top of the unit. Hard drive enclosures are machine from aluminum, even the relatively tick plate at the bottom will not stop a 9mm round to damage the platters if shot from the bottom (considering modern drives, not 1980s monsters that weigh a kilogram per megabyte). Heating the drive to the point where the platters lose all magnetization would be the most effective in erasing the data, but physically damaging the platters is usually enough to render a drive beyond recovery.
If you insist on physical destruction of the data i would recommend looking into flash/ssd storage units however. Literally frying such memory doesn't require thermite, any mechanism that heats the memory chips to a few 100 degrees will suffice, and electrical sabotage (voltage spike and a write cycle) is also feasible, possibly without leaving much evidence that the drive did not fail due to natural causes.
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Provide the drive with an 'arm' switch, and accelerometers (these are now very small chips that commonly go into smartphones). Trigger the destruction if the arm switch is enabled, AND the drive is moved. The rationale behind that is that police and such are likely to 'bag' any evidence instead of doing research on the spot. Arming the destruct mechanism should, however, also at least power down the drive such that on site investigation is not feasible without disturbing the drive enclosure physically.
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This is a terrible idea. If the device triggers while some LEO is holding it, and they get hurt, you're doing serious time for harming a cop, also any damage to their stupid cars/gear/etc goes against you as well.
It has to be something they trigger when they come in. Standard police computer forensics dictates they try to image your computers if they're running, and then tag and bag them. Once they are going to tag/bag them, they will remove any sort of power, if they see a suspicious device mounted to your drive, they will call the bomb squad.
Whatever you do MUST happen BEFORE they get there.
Ideally:
You will use a standard computer tower. You will use small tupperware things of thermite with your choice of igniter, the device triggers when the house alarm/room alarm activates and requires a 8 digit pass code.
The internal of the computer is set up like so in the hard drive area:
[THERMITE}
(Hard drive)
[THERMITE}
(Hard drive)
so on and so forth. That will guarantee destruction.