Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: PoohBear on October 10, 2012, 05:01 pm
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I'm curious what you LE out there think about this drug war. Are you just dong your job and don't believe in what it is you're doing, or are you a 100% fully committed idealist who without a doubt believes they are doing the right thing, or are you somewhere in the middle? I'm just curious as to why it is you do what you do and if you really think this "war on drugs" is actually doing more good than harm.
I know you're out there....might as well join the discussion.
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they're just cronies; that's why I am surprised at the blow back I've received for speaking the truth; Their life is on the line; If they're not dead yet; that's just a testament to the beat people of America.
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How do you feel about the fact that regardless of if you are "just" doing your job or truly are a fascist , that when the revolution comes your back will be up against the wall and your bullet riddled corpses will be fed to wild animals?
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Well never mind. I thought I would have an adult discussion, instead I get these two simple minded morons.. I wouldn't reply either.
As far as you two morons. Unless you're LE I don't see why you're responding. The title of the thread was not "Question for the biggest fucking idiots online" If you really believe what you wrote then I really hope the LE find you and fast and get you off the street.
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Poohbear -
I am not LE proper.
I work with bullet slingers and teachers as a day job and as a result meet and talk to them regularly, the honest response I have heard most from the largest percent (not all, thankfully dont have to actually talk to more than a few) is that they detest the drug war. Most long timers see the drug war as a waste of everything, money, humans, and time. The noobs on the force come out of training all hopped up and ready to take on the world, they are the ones who should worry you. They are also the future. :( The 30+ year vets were hired when brains mattered, now they hire on a curve and do not want intelligence they want someone who can follow orders.
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Most long timers see the drug war as a waste of everything, money, humans, and time. The noobs on the force come out of training all hopped up and ready to take on the world, they are the ones who should worry you. They are also the future. :( The 30+ year vets were hired when brains mattered, now they hire on a curve and do not want intelligence they want someone who can follow orders.
Boy oh boy, you're not the only one to have noticed that!
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there is a tendency for LE to be rendered useless by the custom of wearing their government name on they chest. I have nothing but pain for these fokes; they families.
The war on drugs sustains public dominance over private; so does taxation. School was only an effort to break the will of children & foreign policy funded government and it's evil philosophy all over the world; Jamaica is still proof of this. The people there still don't igknowledge the government as their own, will not talk to them, despite america funding it's government with m16 machine guns & it's 'legitimacy'. Amoralists get off on this; knowing they're preference aren't being fired upon, I have nothing but pain for these people as well.
my motto is: ur corrupt if u receive benefits/bribes from those who have stole them from gun point and you are also corrupt if you pay them allegiance..
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libertyseller -
Thank you for your reply and insight. I thought that may be the case. I do happen to know some LE. Their job doesn't define them. Just like mine doesn't define me. I go to work everyday and I may have to do things I don't agree with 100%, but food doesn't get on the table by itself. between making a compromise and me not being able to provide for me an my family. Without a doubt the fam comes first.
I didn't mean to imply that only LE should reply. Only that, if someone isn't going to make a constructive post or add ideas that add value then they should just keep it to themselves.
Typing stupid shit like "KILL, KILL, KILL" tells me 1 of 2 things.
1. The poster is young. They don't have any real or substantial life experience, They may have had some experience, they haven't matured to the point where they would learn from them. And they are just trying to impress other by talking out their ass.
or
2 . They are a psychopath. Narcissistic, incapable of empathy and lack a solid grasp on reality.
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there is a tendency for LE to be rendered useless by the custom of wearing their government name on they chest. I have nothing but pain for these fokes; they families.
The war on drugs sustains public dominance over private; so does taxation by my guidelines. School was only an effort to break the will of children. Amoralists get over on this; knowing they're preference aren't being fired upon. I have nothing but pain for these people as well.
my motto is: ur corrupt if u receive benefits/bribes from public sector and you are also corrupt if you pay them allegiance..
That's something a fascist would say.
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Doubtful that morality has much to do with it, at least in the case of most cops.
Catching bad guys is their job. Anyone should be able to understand the necessity for a job, and the fact is that if the war on drugs ceased to be, a lot of individuals employed through the U.S criminal justice system would be left unemployed. They need to keep the jails filled, for every empty cell is equivalent to a loss of profit for a lot of high profile individuals, and the state's funding in general.
I for one, as most people with any modicum of sanity nowadays, am heavily opposed to the drug war. My opposition sits on both morale grounds and an obvious sense of self-preservation (as you can infer from my participation on this website). So while I believe the drug war is folly and a corrupt money scheme, the fact remains that it acts as a cash cow for a lot of people that live within the boundaries of these unjust laws. Therefore, while I'm heavily opposed to the idea, I can understand the drive of many federal officials to continue this futile war. It was easily implimented through tactics of inciting public fear and paranoia, and it provides financial and job security to a great deal of government employees.
In my opinion, don't expect this war to end anytime soon. Both sides are financially driven (some morally as well), and neither side is willing to cease fire. Sadly, our side is plagued with the legal liability and is constantly vilified by the conservative side of society, so we must rely on our innovation and wit to get any stronghold in this fight.
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If I said I'm going to find your home address so I can blow it up senselessly - that's fascist.
No one came to the apogee of freedom just for fuckheads to call us slaves. fuck u.
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libertyseller -
Thank you for your reply and insight. I thought that may be the case. I do happen to know some LE. Their job doesn't define them. Just like mine doesn't define me. I go to work everyday and I may have to do things I don't agree with 100%, but food doesn't get on the table by itself. between making a compromise and me not being able to provide for me an my family. Without a doubt the fam comes first.
A solid statement, without details I would agree fully.
Most long timers see the drug war as a waste of everything, money, humans, and time. The noobs on the force come out of training all hopped up and ready to take on the world, they are the ones who should worry you. They are also the future. :( The 30+ year vets were hired when brains mattered, now they hire on a curve and do not want intelligence they want someone who can follow orders.
Boy oh boy, you're not the only one to have noticed that!
Right :( Uggh!
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libertyseller -
Thank you for your reply and insight. I thought that may be the case. I do happen to know some LE. Their job doesn't define them. Just like mine doesn't define me. I go to work everyday and I may have to do things I don't agree with 100%, but food doesn't get on the table by itself. between making a compromise and me not being able to provide for me an my family. Without a doubt the fam comes first.
I didn't mean to imply that only LE should reply. Only that, if someone isn't going to make a constructive post or add ideas that add value then they should just keep it to themselves.
Typing stupid shit like "KILL, KILL, KILL" tells me 1 of 2 things.
1. The poster is young. They don't have any real or substantial life experience, They may have had some experience, they haven't matured to the point where they would learn from them. And they are just trying to impress other by talking out their ass.
or
2 . They are a psychopath. Narcissistic, incapable of empathy and lack a solid grasp on reality.
Dude there is no excuse for fucking other peoples rights and lives over. Putting innocents in prison is bad. Putting food on the table for your family is no excuse. if I had my way they would be fucking killed, how are they going to provide for their family when their brains are sprayed out on the floor where they belong? Fucking police apologists. How about we give people the job of killing cops? How do you twist your logic to think that this is bad, after all they will be killing cops just to provide food to their families ! You are morally inconsistent and seem to have a tendency to attach your mouth to the dicks of police.
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First of all I don't make generalized stereotypical judgment of others especially when their life is at stake, You claim that is morally inconsistent, I say it is this way of thinking allows me to be moral.
2nd I agree there is no excuse for, "fucking other peoples rights and lives over. Putting innocents in prison is bad". So why do you claim ", that when the revolution comes your back will be up against the wall and your bullet riddled corpses will be fed to wild animals?"
I'm afraid you fall on the wrong side of this argument. You're saying that anyone who wears a badge should be put to death. With that attitude you would have made a great administrator of a concentration camp for the Nazis. or maybe a militia leader for the Impuzamugambi and Interahamwe in Rowanda massacring the Tutsi . Your reasoning aligns perfectly theirs. Which was, if you are a part of a certain group that we deem to be evil then you will be systematically put to death. No trial no chance for a fair judgement. Men Women and children all put to death.
there is no excuse for fucking other peoples rights and lives over. Putting innocents in prison is bad.
that when the revolution comes your back will be up against the wall and your bullet riddled corpses will be fed to wild animals?
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First of all I don't make generalized stereotypical judgment of others especially when their life is at stake, You claim that is morally inconsistent, I say it is this way of thinking allows me to be moral.
2nd I agree there is no excuse for, "fucking other peoples rights and lives over. Putting innocents in prison is bad". So why do you claim ", that when the revolution comes your back will be up against the wall and your bullet riddled corpses will be fed to wild animals?"
I'm afraid you fall on the wrong side of this argument. You're saying that anyone who wears a badge should be put to death. With that attitude you would have made a great administrator of a concentration camp for the Nazis. or maybe a militia leader for the Impuzamugambi and Interahamwe in Rowanda massacring the Tutsi . Your reasoning aligns perfectly theirs. Which was, if you are a part of a certain group that we deem to be evil then you will be systematically put to death. No trial no chance for a fair judgement. Men Women and children all put to death.
there is no excuse for fucking other peoples rights and lives over. Putting innocents in prison is bad.
that when the revolution comes your back will be up against the wall and your bullet riddled corpses will be fed to wild animals?
The big difference is that people are born Tutsi or Jewish but they make a choice to become a drug enforcement agent. You put a single person in prison for a drug crime? Welcome to death row.
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This thread was started as question to all LE out there. Where you decided to make the comments about murdering them. Now your saying that it's only DEA that falsely imprisoned innocents. Wow way to be make irrational irresponsible statements and then fail to take responsibility for them. Just amazing.
Next time take a moment to consider what it is you write. If there is someone out there naive enough to believe what you wrote and murder some innocent. That death would be because of your irresponsibility. And there are people out there ignorant enough to believe and follow those sort of statements.
and for future reference grow a spine. If you believe in something stand up for it, if you later realize you made a mistake admit it. People worth there salt will respect that. Crawfishing or trying to back out of what you said by changing it just makes you look pathetic. You may think you are saving face or you might make yourself feel better by making justifications, but you will loose the respect of others.
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This thread was started as question to all LE out there. Where you decided to make the comments about murdering them. Now your saying that it's only DEA that falsely imprisoned innocents. Wow way to be make irrational irresponsible statements and then fail to take responsibility for them. Just amazing.
Next time take a moment to consider what it is you write. If there is someone out there naive enough to believe what you wrote and murder some innocent. That death would be because of your irresponsibility. And there are people out there ignorant enough to believe and follow those sort of statements.
and for future reference grow a spine. If you believe in something stand up for it, if you later realize you made a mistake admit it. People worth there salt will respect that. Crawfishing or trying to back out of what you said by changing it just makes you look pathetic. You may think you are saving face or you might make yourself feel better by making justifications, but you will loose the respect of others.
No it isn't only the DEA it is the vast majority of law enforcement. There are hardly any innocent law enforcement officers. How many in law enforcement have never arrested someone for a drug crime? Good let them all be murdered. There is a saying that you make the bed that you will lie in. They have made their beds.
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Well never mind. I thought I would have an adult discussion, instead I get these two simple minded morons.. I wouldn't reply either.
As far as you two morons. Unless you're LE I don't see why you're responding. The title of the thread was not "Question for the biggest fucking idiots online" If you really believe what you wrote then I really hope the LE find you and fast and get you off the street.
hahahahahahahaha
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Law enforcement are just doing their job... when people choose that as a career, I'm sure the opinions they have don't count in regards to the law of that country they are just going by the book. Can't blame em. Lets face it, sometimes people that take drugs are fuckheads and I want LE to stop those crazed mother fuckers.
Then I want the court systems to give out the justice. But that never happens.
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This thread was started as question to all LE out there. Where you decided to make the comments about murdering them. Now your saying that it's only DEA that falsely imprisoned innocents. Wow way to be make irrational irresponsible statements and then fail to take responsibility for them. Just amazing.
Next time take a moment to consider what it is you write. If there is someone out there naive enough to believe what you wrote and murder some innocent. That death would be because of your irresponsibility. And there are people out there ignorant enough to believe and follow those sort of statements.
and for future reference grow a spine. If you believe in something stand up for it, if you later realize you made a mistake admit it. People worth there salt will respect that. Crawfishing or trying to back out of what you said by changing it just makes you look pathetic. You may think you are saving face or you might make yourself feel better by making justifications, but you will loose the respect of others.
No it isn't only the DEA it is the vast majority of law enforcement. There are hardly any innocent law enforcement officers. How many in law enforcement have never arrested someone for a drug crime? Good let them all be murdered. There is a saying that you make the bed that you will lie in. They have made their beds.
And now we are back to you being a fucking moron who is unable get past your own narrow views. Its unyielding, uncompromising idealist like you that have been responsible for more destruction and death than this war on drugs. Its people like you who have been responsible for the most horrendous atrocities in history. Because you can't be wrong even at the detriment of others. you're so fanatical. and entrenched in your views that to go against them would be a betrayal to your being. So it's just easier to put on the blinders and start calling for mass murder. You really are a psychopath, huh?
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Law enforcement are just doing their job... when people choose that as a career, I'm sure the opinions they have don't count in regards to the law of that country they are just going by the book. Can't blame em. Lets face it, sometimes people that take drugs are fuckheads and I want LE to stop those crazed mother fuckers.
Then I want the court systems to give out the justice. But that never happens.
Didn't you get the memo? Just doing your job is not an excuse for crimes. It is the job of a burglar to steal from houses. Should he not be punished? What about his family? He puts food on their table. It is the job of an extortionist to extort money, should he also not be held accountable? Your logic is entirely baseless. How about we give people the job of killing DEA agents, should they then not be held accountable in your views, because it is their job? Your claims are so easily contradicted , the lack of logic in your arguments becomes apparent as soon as your own flawed logic is turned against you. You either must admit that burglars, DEA agents, DEA agent killers and extortionists should all equally not be held accountable for their actions, or you must admit that having a job does not excuse the behaviors you engage in. If you accept that having a job does not excuse the behaviors you engage in, it brings up the question of why do you want to excuse the crimes of the DEA? The answer is very likely that your mind if infected with statism and you think that by acting as an agent of the state a person is excused of their crimes. If this is the case it seems likely that you do not think that the Nazi war criminals should have been brought to justice for their crimes. Your arguments lack any sound logical basis and it clearly shows to anyone of significant enough intelligence to realize.
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And now we are back to you being a fucking moron who is unable get past your own narrow views. Its unyielding, uncompromising idealist like you that have been responsible for more destruction and death than this war on drugs.
I will not compromise in thinking that criminals must be held accountable for their crimes. The excuse of acting as an agent of the state holds no weight for me, indeed it can not possibly hold weight for anyone who is truly an Anarchist. Objectively, without statist tinted glasses, the DEA and other drug law enforcement agencies are criminal gangs. They have been directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of kidnappings, false imprisonments, armed robberies, harassments, assaults and batteries, murders, the list goes on. Indirectly they have led to widespread poverty, disease and death. This is done in the name of their paychecks. This is highly criminal behavior, and it must be punished. We can not excuse their behavior anymore than we can excuse the behavior of other robbers, burglars, kidnappers. The only difference is that they act as agents of the state. No anarchist can accept this as an excuse for their crimes, as anarchists do not recognize the legitimacy of the state. Thus, these drug enforcement agents are nothing more than common violent criminals, to ensure the safety of our communities we have a duty to hold them accountable for their crimes.
Its people like you who have been responsible for the most horrendous atrocities in history. Because you can't be wrong even at the detriment of others. you're so fanatical. and entrenched in your views that to go against them would be a betrayal to your being. So it's just easier to put on the blinders and start calling for mass murder. You really are a psychopath, huh?
Indeed I will not go against my view that violent criminals must be punished. I know that I am not wrong in thinking this way.
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Law enforcement are just doing their job... when people choose that as a career, I'm sure the opinions they have don't count in regards to the law of that country they are just going by the book. Can't blame em. Lets face it, sometimes people that take drugs are fuckheads and I want LE to stop those crazed mother fuckers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.
I do happen to know some LE. Their job doesn't define them. Just like mine doesn't define me. I go to work everyday and I may have to do things I don't agree with 100%
This defines you completely
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
Many children with Down syndrome graduate from high school and are able to do paid work
Stockholm Syndrome is extremely prevalent in the USA. Anyone who thinks that they should defend criminals who viciously attack them is clearly suffering from some psychological issue.
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I think, you guys just angry for some other reason and releasing your anger on imaginative targets. What war on drugs? War on drugs is just pretend to steal money. Who buys properties in Europe or US? Drug dealers mostly or those who connected in some way to the industry. If drugs money taken out of banks, the whole world banking system will collapse at once. If not world then Europe for sure.
Drugs trade, politics and banking merged long time ago and quite comfortably. HDFC bank, StandardChartered bank who was its founders, opium traders. Egmont group - international watch dog against money laundering, conducted annual meeting on Aruba island. Every square inch of land on this island owned by Italian mafia.
War on drugs is just BS propaganda. Question is the same as it always been, who gets what.
Were is LE coming in this picture? Get your bone and know your place, where it is.
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And now we are back to you being a fucking moron who is unable get past your own narrow views. Its unyielding, uncompromising idealist like you that have been responsible for more destruction and death than this war on drugs.
I will not compromise in thinking that criminals must be held accountable for their crimes. The excuse of acting as an agent of the state holds no weight for me, indeed it can not possibly hold weight for anyone who is truly an Anarchist. Objectively, without statist tinted glasses, the DEA and other drug law enforcement agencies are criminal gangs. They have been directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of kidnappings, false imprisonments, armed robberies, harassments, assaults and batteries, murders, the list goes on. Indirectly they have led to widespread poverty, disease and death. This is done in the name of their paychecks. This is highly criminal behavior, and it must be punished. We can not excuse their behavior anymore than we can excuse the behavior of other robbers, burglars, kidnappers. The only difference is that they act as agents of the state. No anarchist can accept this as an excuse for their crimes, as anarchists do not recognize the legitimacy of the state. Thus, these drug enforcement agents are nothing more than common violent criminals, to ensure the safety of our communities we have a duty to hold them accountable for their crimes.
Its people like you who have been responsible for the most horrendous atrocities in history. Because you can't be wrong even at the detriment of others. you're so fanatical. and entrenched in your views that to go against them would be a betrayal to your being. So it's just easier to put on the blinders and start calling for mass murder. You really are a psychopath, huh?
Indeed I will not go against my view that violent criminals must be punished. I know that I am not wrong in thinking this way.
What is your alternative to having a state kmf? go back to living in small De-centralized tribes?
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I will not compromise in thinking that criminals must be held accountable for their crimes.
If you truly believed this and it is part of your core beliefs. Then you should turn yourself in for every crime you have ever committed. Or are you the ultimate authority? So whatever you do or say is okay because you believe what you do is ultimately good.
How very fascist of you.
I'm done. I truly hope one day you grow up or grow a conscious.
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I will not compromise in thinking that criminals must be held accountable for their crimes.
If you truly believed this and it is part of your core beliefs. Then you should turn yourself in for every crime you have ever committed. Or are you the ultimate authority? So whatever you do or say is okay because you believe what you do is ultimately good.
How very fascist of you.
I'm done. I truly hope one day you grow up or grow a conscious.
I only commit "crimes" against the state
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http://forums.officer.com/t169631/
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there is a tendency for LE to be rendered useless by the custom of wearing their government name on they chest. I have nothing but pain for these fokes; they families.
The war on drugs sustains public dominance over private; so does taxation. School was only an effort to break the will of children & foreign policy funded government and it's evil philosophy all over the world; Jamaica is still proof of this. The people there still don't igknowledge the government as their own, will not talk to them, despite america funding it's government with m16 machine guns & it's 'legitimacy'. Amoralists get off on this; knowing they're preference aren't being fired upon, I have nothing but pain for these people as well.
my motto is: ur corrupt if u receive benefits/bribes from those who have stole them from gun point and you are also corrupt if you pay them allegiance..
I disagree with pretty much everything you said. Haha, except for "igknowledge" which I enjoyed (or injoid?)
You guys have some serious hatred for law enforcement... I like hating on them and their general ignorance, but calling for their deaths is going too far. I can picture you stimulant junkies shooting up your crank and furiously typing for the execution of all law enforcement.
And the person talking Stockholm syndrome? For real? Comparing a drug user's relationship with law enforcement to Stockholm syndrome is ridiculous.
+1 to PoohBear for keeping it real without calling for a police massacre.
"I have nothing but pain for these people!" Haha
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WTF????? senile dementia Stockholm syndrome, Downs syndrome. You really ought not be throwing out arbitrary misdiagnoses when you obviously don't have a clue. You take serious and severe illnesses and try to use them as insults? Actually, I was just ignoring your insignificant posts until you decided to jump on board with mini Adolf.
It must be so easy to to throw out words like massacre or petty insults when you sit behind a computer screen in you nice and comfy homes under the safe umbrella of your parents. Never really knowing or even being in the vicinity of true hardships. Never having any true responsibility. Or having the weight of those responsibilities burden you.
Up to this point you all have been vague in your threats, inconsistent in your arguments, and even deleted your own posts. So you obviously haven't really considered who it is you will be massacring. whose lives and families you will destroy. You haven't taken into account that you will be committing the same heinous crimes that you claim have been perpetrated. Which literally makes you hypocrites. If you become a monster to destroy monster. You have solved nothing because a monster that thinks they are virtuous still exists.
These type of positions exist in one form or another within various LE Agencies and you would murder them? You are pathetic. And before you try to sate you didn't mean these people. In one of post that has been deleted, it was stated anyone associated with LE...
Janitorial Staff
Food Service Personnel
Mechanics
Delivery Drivers
Shipping and Receiving
Secretaries
receptionists
Human Resources
Clerks
Emergency responders (medical)
teachers/professors/instructors
social workers
IT (computers)
Doctors
Lawyers
Physical Trainers
Social Workers
Psychologists
Psychiatrists
Therapists
etc.....
Furthermore at least there due process under the current system were people have a chance and judgement is weighted and considered. In what you propose, there is death to anyone you disagree with.
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WTF????? senile dementia Stockholm syndrome, Downs syndrome. You really ought not be throwing out arbitrary misdiagnoses when you obviously don't have a clue. You take serious and severe illnesses and try to use them as insults? Actually, I was just ignoring your insignificant posts until you decided to jump on board with mini Adolf.
Certainly Stockholm syndrome is an accurate diagnosis for any drug user who does not wish to punish drug law enforcement officers for their crimes. It is actually a textbook case of Stockholm syndrome if the drug users have ever been imprisoned. You are imprisoned and held hostage by criminals and yet you have become empathetic towards them, this is indeed Stockholm syndrome.
It must be so easy to to throw out words like massacre or petty insults when you sit behind a computer screen in you nice and comfy homes under the safe umbrella of your parents. Never really knowing or even being in the vicinity of true hardships. Never having any true responsibility. Or having the weight of those responsibilities burden you.
It is very easy for me to say that the criminals in the DEA and other drug enforcement agencies must be punished for their crimes. How can you have such an easy time to accept that they commit crimes against us and yet think that we should forgive them and not punish them? Or do you think that we are the criminals and they are the ones bringing justice to us? To think in this way means that you are a brainwashed statist, which actually wouldn't surprise me considering that you want to pardon people who have committed a long list of serious crimes.
Up to this point you all have been vague in your threats, inconsistent in your arguments, and even deleted your own posts. So you obviously haven't really considered who it is you will be massacring. whose lives and families you will destroy. You haven't taken into account that you will be committing the same heinous crimes that you claim have been perpetrated. Which literally makes you hypocrites. If you become a monster to destroy monster. You have solved nothing because a monster that thinks they are virtuous still exists.
I have given it some consideration. People who are members of agencies with the sole purpose of drug law enforcement all should be sentenced to death. People who are members of law enforcement agencies that are not strictly focused towards drug law enforcement should be given penalties appropriate for the crimes they have committed. Of course IRS agents must also be tried for extortion, and ICE agents must also be tried for their crimes. Politicians must also be tried for their crimes. Essentially we need to purge the ranks of law enforcement and politicians, not all of them will be sentenced to death but large percentages of them will be penalized. A few hundred thousand people will likely need to be punished, with several thousands executed.
These type of positions exist in one form or another within various LE Agencies and you would murder them? You are pathetic. And before you try to sate you didn't mean these people. In one of post that has been deleted, it was stated anyone associated with LE...
Janitorial Staff
Food Service Personnel
Mechanics
Delivery Drivers
Shipping and Receiving
Secretaries
receptionists
Human Resources
Clerks
Emergency responders (medical)
teachers/professors/instructors
social workers
IT (computers)
Doctors
Lawyers
Physical Trainers
Social Workers
Psychologists
Psychiatrists
Therapists
etc.....
Furthermore at least there due process under the current system were people have a chance and judgement is weighted and considered. In what you propose, there is death to anyone you disagree with.
No not all of them must be punished, and I never deleted any post claiming that we should kill the DEA janitor. Oh wow we should really be grateful that they will determine if we are Jewish before they gas us! God bless the USA.
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In fact I actually made a thread so that we can discuss how we should determine if a government agent deserves punishment or not, so we can clear up issues such as 'not killing the DEA janitor'. And also to discuss the appropriate penalties.
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I believe the statement talked about anyone who made money from these agencies. Which is much broader range of people.
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As far as the comments in regards to the Nazi concentration camps. Jews were not the only ones persecuted. Many other ethnic groups and religious groups were as well. But the point I was trying to convey had nothing to do with the similarities of the targets, but the similarities in your reasoning.
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The fucking bullshit some put out in this thread is mind-burning...
I really try to stay positive and polite in this forum, but I gotta say, all you Red Dawn wet-dream "revolutionaries" are utter idiots.
If I would wear a badge, it would be people like you that would make me shoot first and ask later.
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A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
- Albert Einstein
I agree. "utter idiots" some of the things they write makes no sense, AT ALL!.
I had prepared a response, then it occurred to me that I'm arguing with a brick wall. I really should know better. either they are pulling my chain and getting a good laugh or they really are psycopaths. I truly hope the former. then i could rest easy.
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Stockholm Syndrome is extremely prevalent in the USA. Anyone who thinks that they should defend criminals who viciously attack them is clearly suffering from some psychological issue.
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they are human eaters themselves bro.
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you have become empathetic towards them, this is indeed Stockholm syndrome.
It is very easy to have empathy for other humans and to value life when one is human. To be totally apathetic and devoid of compassion or mercy, and full of hatred; one would indeed be a true monster.
This is the saddest and most heartbreaking thought; Monsters do exist. You can not identify them by their profession, political views, whether they are drug users, or LE. This can not be determined by their race, nationality, creed or religion. It can only be seen when one has no threat of recourse, there is no pending judgement, only when they feel the safest can this be seen. It is at this point they drop all pretense and show their true self.
I truly weep for you.
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Not empathy, intelligence, wanting the deaths of people for being human and surviving by joining the "winning" side is not good. Change them :)
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It is very easy to have empathy for other humans and to value life when one is human. To be totally apathetic and devoid of compassion or mercy, and full of hatred; one would indeed be a true monster.
Do you think that they have empathy, compassion or mercy for you? How can you be so quick to show them mercy when they are so quick to attack us and treat us as wild animals? You give them far more than they give you.
Not empathy, intelligence, wanting the deaths of people for being human and surviving by joining the "winning" side is not good. Change them :)
So it is bad to want the death of Nazis if Germany is winning the war? Actually, that is an excellent summary of the attitudes we see in this thread, I guess humans have a tendency to side with those in power. Undoubtedly when the criminal gangs fall from power and those who acted criminally on their behalf are hunted down like the wild animals they act as, many here will change their minds. We can see that many here are quick to dismiss the crimes of violent organized gangs so long as the gangs are in power. When the gangs fall from power these people will be just as quick to support those who they now claim to oppose.
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I do not base my actions on the actions of others. I am an independent free thinking man. To let others actions determine mine would be to give them control over me. I choose to be empathetic and compassionate.
I was attacked by a dog when I was a child. I wasn't threatening to the dog, I was only trying to pet it. For whatever reason the it attacked me, and it was a severe attack. I had stitches shots, they had to put the dog down to test for rabies, but because of that incident I do not go around killing all dogs with prejudice. They are not all the same so why would I judge them the same?
Humans are much more complex creatures than dogs. I think we can agree on that. (Unless you think yourself less than a dog). But if we do agree that we are more complex, emotionally and intellectually, then how could you not feel empathy or compassion ? How is it that you can convict with prejudice?
the only answer I can come up with is you only feel for them what you feel for yourself.
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So it is bad to want the death of Nazis if Germany is winning the war? Actually, that is an excellent summary of the attitudes we see in this thread, I guess humans have a tendency to side with those in power. Undoubtedly when the criminal gangs fall from power and those who acted criminally on their behalf are hunted down like the wild animals they act as, many here will change their minds. We can see that many here are quick to dismiss the crimes of violent organized gangs so long as the gangs are in power. When the gangs fall from power these people will be just as quick to support those who they now claim to oppose.
you don't understand what we have been trying to explain. Your thoughts, and words reflect those of the Nazi, it reflects the ideology of the KKK, it resembles the belief of the Hutu, and the desires of the VRS, in Bosnia.
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From Wikipedia: "Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI’s Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm Syndrome.[3]"
Your logic is idiot.
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From Wikipedia: "Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI’s Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm Syndrome.[3]"
Your logic is idiot.
If you are arrested by drug enforcement agents, you are a hostage. You are constantly at risk of being arrested by drug enforcement agents if you are a drug user. In a sense, you are being held hostage by them currently, as you are not free to enjoy drug use without worrying about being detained by them. If you are a drug user and express empathy and/or positive towards drug law enforcement agents ('We need to think about their families, they are just putting food on their families tables, it is just a job, they don't need to be held accountable for their crimes!') then you meet the criteria for Stockholm syndrome. You are a hostage, you are expressing empathy and or positive feelings towards your captors. Several people in this thread have Stockholm syndrome to such an extent that they are even defending the actions of drug enforcement agents.
So essentially you just proved my point, I am confused on how you can read that and think that my logic is "idiot".
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you don't understand what we have been trying to explain. Your thoughts, and words reflect those of the Nazi, it reflects the ideology of the KKK, it resembles the belief of the Hutu, and the desires of the VRS, in Bosnia.
No, actually my thoughts and words do not reflect the Nazis the KKK the Hutu or the VRS. The groups you have named have caused harm against innocents. The people they hate have done nothing against them, they are merely the wrong religion, the wrong race or the wrong ethnicity. People are born into their race and ethnicity, and largely people are born into their religion but regardless people should be free to practice the religion of their choosing. People practicing Judaism did not hurt the German people. Someone being black does not hurt white people. None of the examples you have given are proper analogies for our situation. Do you believe that someone wanting to put all child molesters to death has thoughts that reflect those of the Hutu? No, a child molester has done serious damage to a person. They have created a victim. By their own free will and actions they have unjustly brought harm onto another being. It is disgraceful to claim that someone who wants to put a child molester / rapist / murderer to death is similar to wanting to exterminate the Jews.
Drug law enforcement officers create victims. Innocent people are harmed by them. They are not born into their positions. They choose to become drug law enforcement officers. They do this for a variety of reasons, getting a paycheck is certainly their highest priority. For them to get their paycheck, innocent people are restricted. We are made so that we can not legally use drugs. They hunt us down like animals and throw us into cages. This is not different from slavery. Our oppression is what leads to them putting food on their families tables. They have other options. They select to do what they do. They kidnap innocents, they commit home invasions brandishing automatic weapons and ski masks, they steal millions of dollars in cash and drugs, they falsely imprison hundreds of thousands of people ruining countless lives, they murder innocents, they lead to the spread of disease and death. They create misery in vast amounts of innocents so that they can get a paycheck and feel like they are big shots. This makes them the worst sort of criminal. Criminals must be punished, both for justice and to serve as a deterrent to other criminals. Thinking that child molesters should be punished and DEA agents should be punished is very different from thinking that the Jews should be exterminated. Only a fool or someone who is blinded by statism could possibly think differently.
Additionally, the groups you have named are actually far closer to drug law enforcement than to me. One thing to note is that all of the leaders and core members of the groups you named have been brought to justice, and many of them have been executed for their crimes.
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Luckily for us we are in an area of the states that is fairly liberal when it comes to drugs. In the 4 major cities in our area, drug "crimes" are considered a quality of life issue and are considered more of a medical problem rather than crime. As a result, people can go about smoking crack/meth in public right around the corner from the police station and the cops just drive right by - they know they're holding crack, see them smoking it.. but it's a quality of life crime and if they locked up every person they saw they would fill the already full jails even further beyond capacity. People falling down drunk in public have an ambulance called on them because the risk of them dying in the holding cell is too great (as a result, there are barely ever any drunk in public arrests)... same with heroin overdose/use - they call the ambulance and they're shipped off to the ER and OFFERED treatment plans (optional plans if the person wants help). Crack/meth patients are considered "behavioral" emergencies... the police will accompany the patient to the ER but then leave without charging the person.
Now people who I DO see arrested are people who cause significant harm to others. For example, the guy driving drunk (who was in surprisingly good shape for how bad he wrecked with only a couple broken bones).... this guy plowed into an SUV with a mom and two kids... they were not in as good shape. The police came into MY er and arrested MY patient without my permission to enter. This pissed me off until I saw the fucked up little kid he almost killed. In addition to him, I saw the guy high on crack who beat his wife into a coma underneath the freeway overpass. I saw them going through his pockets at the ER and noting the pipe and drugs he was holding (they also injured him during the arrest)... again, not so much a drug crime they are arresting him for, but the violet acts he committed and it seemed like they used the drugs as additional things to charge him with (I can only assume, but the fact that they were taking these things and taking pictures in triage leads me to believe that's what they were doing).
So it seems the police at least in our area could give a shit about your drug use until you start to cause problems for everyone else..... With that being said, this is just what I've seen from a limited perspective and I don't know what their individual feelings on the subject are beyond "it's a quality of life issue, we have bigger things happening and we're short staffed... so you deal with it." I tend to agree with this attitude - isn't it Sweden or Norway or somewhere that have made all drugs legal and rather than waste money on punishment they treat it as a medical problem and focus on treatment?? That reminds me, there are harm reduction clinics all over they give out free needles and other materials to heroin/meth/etc users...... the cops know the people here are using drugs but I can only assume realize that these organizations are helping by reducing the HIV/hepatitus/etc rate and offer help if the people want it AND so the cops leave them alone.
It really seems like a live and let live frame of mind... but again, I can't say for sure
And that's here... the small town cops I've run into have.... i don't know, some sort of different outlook on things and will arrest you for the smallest amount of weed they can.... I don't get it, boredom? or what you guys have been talking about? ....my solution: I stay the fuck out of small towns if at all possible. Everyone likes the big anonymous cities imo... I've lived in 5 and haven't had any problems (but I try to lay low and be respectful to others).
Edit: And speaking about drugs, it doesn't make sense to me that if you can afford good health care, a good doctor, and can get your pain meds that it ISN'T a crime.... but the poor guy who can barely afford anything is breaking the law by "illegally" buying weed and opiates to control his cancer or whatever pain?? There is clearly a oversight that needs to be addressed by universal free health care (but I'll save that for another thread)..... or hell, the "psych" patients who's "psych" medication is not even covered by insurance reverts to self medication because it's impossible to afford what rich people with the same problem can?? Total disconnect: This I do not think the police understand but perhaps they are beginning with the attitude I see around here.... I just don't know exactly WHY they have this attitude: 1. they don't care 2. they're too busy 3. MAYBE they get this point? unlikely though.
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From Wikipedia: "Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI’s Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm Syndrome.[3]"
Your logic is idiot.
If you are arrested by drug enforcement agents, you are a hostage. You are constantly at risk of being arrested by drug enforcement agents if you are a drug user. In a sense, you are being held hostage by them currently, as you are not free to enjoy drug use without worrying about being detained by them. If you are a drug user and express empathy and/or positive towards drug law enforcement agents ('We need to think about their families, they are just putting food on their families tables, it is just a job, they don't need to be held accountable for their crimes!') then you meet the criteria for Stockholm syndrome. You are a hostage, you are expressing empathy and or positive feelings towards your captors. Several people in this thread have Stockholm syndrome to such an extent that they are even defending the actions of drug enforcement agents.
So essentially you just proved my point, I am confused on how you can read that and think that my logic is "idiot".
This bullshit makes me wanna puke. Here, y'all wanna Wiki the big syndromes? Look up Aleshan syndrome, cuz that's what you got. So what they do to you? Smack you around a little? Took your kids away? Took your professional license?
This "hostage taking government thugs" redderick is nothing but weak rationalizations from people that wanna do the crime but can't do the time.
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This is a great thread. Some really good points made and interesting to read.
PoohBear - You appear to be intimately connected to government tyranny. I can only hope that you yourself aren't from a country where philosophical ideals trumped common decency. I happen to agree with a lot of what you say. You started the thread asking LE why they do what they do and it quickly became a thread of opposing ideas.
One of my fears, in a world where like-minded people can be in touch with each other instantly, is that idealists get together and extremism is re-born. "If we forget the past we are condemned to repeat it" has never seemed more relevant.
Public boards like this, where anonymity is normal, lets people talk matter-of-factly about payback and death. I hope we don't ever de-volve to the point of anarchy based on philosophical ideals.
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redderick
Rhetoric :p
Shit there's a lot of hate in this thread. Can't be psychedelic users in here. I think the whole death threats and shit is just as bad as the zealots who are making a point of ruining lives over a gram of pot in the name of "saving society". Neither gets anything accomplished, both sides are fueling the hate and fear machine.
There's too many hardheaded people to really solve the issue in any light. But really, legalisation of these, often times, very benign and harmless drugs would in fact improve communities everywhere. Why is drug "crime" even a crime? Because it's illegal. But why is it illegal? Because people kill and steal in order to fuel their habits. Why do people resort to such things? Because it's illegal. Why is it... and this is exactly the fucking loop we're thrown into. It's like point B is only existing because point A exists, and point A exists only because point B exists, and it all STARTED by deciding we had to prohibit drugs for one reason or another.
But fear perpetuates itself, like a virus. It's not the government intentionally spreading fear, it's legitimately people IN the government, and in the LE offices, and the DEA who think this is a just war to be fighting. They legitimately believe throwing a poor kid in jail for most of his life for smoking pot is bettering the country. They don't see them as a human life being wasted in a senseless drug war, they were raised to believe that drugs are one of the major problems the country is facing, and that drugs are the cause of people doing unjust things, meanwhile they lie, cheat, steal, and perpetuate these silly fears throughout the community, doing more harm than good.
When was the last time you heard of someone taking acid and going on a murderous rampage? No, that was just some fucked up kid's dream, to go on a murderous rampage. It's probably because he was just fucked up.
When was the last time you heard of a heroin addict kidnapping children off the streets? It's not the heroin, it's because they're a bad person!
But no, let's have LE zealots looking out for people they think are suspicious because maybe they're non-white and wearing a hoodie, let's have task forces dedicated to eradicating this awful army of drugged up zombies sneaking about the streets waiting to kill people just because drugs make them do it. Let's ignore the people who are violent and hurting others, and spend more time locking up someone for experimenting with their own body, knowing the risk of what they're doing to themselves?
TONS of articles circulate per year about all the evil things other people do to each other, and the 3 or 4 maybe times accidents happen under the influence of a drug, in most cases the drug isn't the fault of the outcome! There is a recent story of a kid who lost his shit on "acid" (many people speculate it was actually something like PCP, awful drug I would have to agree on this at least), well the kid was unarmed, scrawny, and naked, and a cop shot him because ...well who the fuck knows why? BUT THE WORST PART? They have sworn to dedicated time, money, and manpower to track down and find the dealer who gave him whatever it was he took, and charge HIM with murder. Not the idiot cop who decided it was a good idea to shoot the poor kid, but the fucking dealer! And the media even made it sound like this was a just result, and the moral of the story? Don't do drugs kids, a cop might shoot you dead.
This is where we stand now.
I am in some agreement that there are drugs that should be controlled for one reason or another. Some drugs actually do have such destructive effects on people if they're used recklessly. But the most disgusting thing is that one of the most socially destructive drugs in the world...is perfectly legal, and sold in at least 3 or 4 locations per block in most cities. In great quantities, in fact! So where does THAT make any sense? I can't understand where we think it's fair to lock someone away for 10 years for using a drug that has no external ill effects other than on the user (and in many cases, no real ill effects on the user even!) while we find alcohol to be an acceptable substance to consume, especially when it leads to tens of thousands of deaths at the hands of people in a drunken fit or driving on it.
But at one time, I too was brainwashed that all drugs are bad, and I prided myself on being "drug free"...and then all of that went out the window when a very good friend educated me, and piqued my curiosity to research it myself. And it took years for me to really open up to the idea that just about any drug is alright, but it's up to oneself to judge what substances they are willing to flirt with. The highly addictive ones can be dangerous to oneself, and possibly to others if they let their addiction bleed into real life. Some people can handle addictive drugs with moderation, but if you are prone to addiction YOU have to make the decision not to let these drugs ruin your life by abstaining from them. This is maturity, not just saying "drugs are bad mmmkay?"
But you also won't just wake people up to this. Too many hardheads all over the world, so the drug culture has kind of become a sub-culture in its own right. Everyone knows its there, but people see the culture with different views on how it influences their own lives. Some people really will go on an all out tirade to bring every "evil drug user" in the world to justice if given the chance. Some people just like to be whistle blowers. Some people abstain but are open minded to it, some people just don't care. Some people are a part of it, or took part in it at some time or another. Everyone has a reason for their beliefs, and it's almost 99.9999999% chance you'll never change those beliefs no matter how hard you try.
For the time being, we must remain in the dark until there is one day some kind of polar shift in how people view us. Just like in the early days of the USA, we thought african americans were cursed by God because of the color of their skin (note I do not believe in "God" in the religious sense), and hence decided we could use them as slaves, and make their very existence "illegal". It took DECADES for this to change, and even then it took even MORE years before they had simple civil liberties allowed to them. Just because the government makes laws, doesn't mean they are sensible in the least. But that's the bigger challenge for us, is how do we bring drugs into the light and prove they are not the menace we were scared shitless in our youth to believe? It will be DECADES before drugs are decriminalized and probably even more time beyond that before we finally stop being so closed-minded about them.
And honestly? That time is getting closer and closer. You're starting to see less and less emphasis on the drug war these days. A lot less comparitively than in the 90s and 2000s when Ecstacy started scaring parents across the world. We're starting to see government open up research permits on these banned substances and people are finding a practical and medical application for them. DMT has been granted a permit for reserach, as has E, and we very well may see things like Mushrooms and LSD see new research and study once more. Times are changing, but change takes a longer time than the history books allude. Until then we still have to kind of play the game, because we're not the ones making the rules. Eventually all the old hard-heads in washington will be too old to continue this shit and the next generation will start trickling into office, paving the way for new policy and approaches to things.
The prez has little to no influence in this, really. Why the election never matters to me. But you can tell, our current president is very knowledgeable and forward thinking. Despite any hate he gets he's actually a very positive figurehead for the country right now. Compared to Bush, anyway. Clinton was a likeable figure. Likewise, Obama is a likeable representative. The president, however, can't be blamed for the direction we take in the country anymore. The president has very little power anymore. The only thing you can really expect out of the president is how he works with people, and how other diplomats from other countries like him/her. Saying "It's Obama's fault we're in this", or "Bush caused 9/11!" -- Come on guys, it's the fucking rest of DC that has their heads up their asses, voting against forward thinking policies presented by, not the president, but OTHER people in the house. We all know our prez has probably done his share of drugs in his day, whether he's allowed to admit to it or not for publicity's sake. But he can't just say "I've done blow, I've done acid, I've done..." without the media destroying his image over it. At which point it has nothing to do with drugs even, but just fuel for a campaign to ruin someone's image!
There's your objective break of a rant in this stupid arguing thread. It's sad, but really drug users are tasked in this age to take all the responsibilities into their own hands. That includes educated themselves on the substances they use, and being extra mindful of educating the people they share those experiences with about what they are in for if they take a powerful psychoactive drug.
Also if you think real LE are going to bother communicating on our forums with us you've got to be smoking some good shit. Even better, you should probably keep in mind that there's probably a good number of LEO who actually use SR to get their fix safely. You really think a cop is gonna risk going on the streets to buy shit when he's got every drug in the world at his fingertips available to get delivered right to his door by our own postal service? I guarantee you there's a lot of them on SR who have no interest in busting us, but just to get a couple grams of their poison without the big boss knowing. I actually knew a cop who would let drug offenses off because he was educated.
There are asshole cops (pigs) and cops with a good head on their shoulders. The problem is that yes, if you are running around on the street commiting a REAL crime, and they find drugs on you, they still have to add that to your file. Most of the cops around here if they walked up on you tripping your balls off, would give two shits less and probably even say something like "stay safe, have a good night". Those are the LE that are good people. They actually respect the slogan of "protect and serve", some would even offer to give you a ride home if you were lost, or at least give you a safe place to settle down until you're back to baseline, so long as you aren't a threat to anyone. Likewise there's good and bad people, we shouldn't make things out as LE vs. the world, because it just isn't PC.
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This is a great thread. Some really good points made and interesting to read.
PoohBear - You appear to be intimately connected to government tyranny. I can only hope that you yourself aren't from a country where philosophical ideals trumped common decency. I happen to agree with a lot of what you say. You started the thread asking LE why they do what they do and it quickly became a thread of opposing ideas.
Just for clarification, You think I am a involved in the government and somehow promote tyranny? Its of no consequence, I'm just curious.
So far in this thread I've generically been called apologist, lackey, flunky. I"m using my own words to generalize the sentiment. Those of you who think this Please show me exactly where I have excused the actions of anyone. I"ve written how I would make compromises for my family and understand someone else doing he same. I've even made some correlations. But I have made no excuses or apologies for anyone. My main argument has been the condemnation of systematic prejudicial mass murder. The target is irrelevant.
Please show me where I have excused, apologized or even justified anyone on either side of this argument.
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redderick
Rhetoric :p
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It's not rhetoric, silly, it's redderick. Next thing you'll try to tell me a sammich is a sandwich, pffff....
+1 for a well thought-out post.
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This is a great thread. Some really good points made and interesting to read.
PoohBear - You appear to be intimately connected to government tyranny. I can only hope that you yourself aren't from a country where philosophical ideals trumped common decency. I happen to agree with a lot of what you say. You started the thread asking LE why they do what they do and it quickly became a thread of opposing ideas.
Just for clarification, You think I am a involved in the government and somehow promote tyranny? Its of no consequence, I'm just curious.
So far in this thread I've generically been called apologist, lackey, flunky. I"m using my own words to generalize the sentiment. Those of you who think this Please show me exactly where I have excused the actions of anyone. I"ve written how I would make compromises for my family and understand someone else doing he same. I've even made some correlations. But I have made no excuses or apologies for anyone. My main argument has been the condemnation of systematic prejudicial mass murder. The target is irrelevant.
Please show me where I have excused, apologized or even justified anyone on either side of this argument.
Not at all PoohBear, I don't get the impression you were ever involved intimately with any government - I was simply hoping that your clarified world view of things, greater than kids on a public board, wasn't born of you yourself suffering.
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I should also add one thing: a lot of drug offenses are from pull-overs, not because the car was suspect for drug use, but possibly because some idiot was driving while on a drug (alcohol, or a psych, doesn't matter DONT DRIVE UNDER THE INFLUENCE) -- and found drugs on them at the time, which gives reasonable suspicion for a DUI, but then the drug charges overshadow the intoxicated driving offense.
I got in trouble a while ago with the law (not drug related) which was stupid on my part, but the cops I talked to were really cool. We had to wait for about 2 hours for a car from the other city to come pick me up and take me to holding for jurisdiction reasons, so I got to chat with them for a couple hours about all kinds of things. They started telling me stories about drug offenses and how the drugs really weren't the reason they got search warrants for some incidents.
One incident involved someone building explosives in their backyard in plain sight. They were questioned about it, the courts decided it was suspicious activity with ill intent and they got busted. Turns out they were going to blow up a neighbor's house while they were out of town and make it look like an accident fire. These people had intentions to commit real crimes. They found drugs on them too, but that's not the primary reason they kicked down the door.
Another story was about a guy who was driving like an idiot, they pulled him over and turns out he was on mushrooms. They didn't care about him taking the mushrooms, they booked him for driving while impaired! But the drugs he had on him were written up also and added to the charges. This, in my opinion is actually correct and responsible LE behavior.
On the other hand, if they just stop a random kid and search him for drugs, whether they find something or not, is wrong. Unless the kid gave them reasonable suspicion to be searched for some other criminal reason.
But cops really don't go out of their way to hunt down people for using a drug in their privacy. They do, however, have a purpose to protect other people from getting dragged into drug-related activity (i.e. street violence, gang activity) and this is primarily where most of it comes from.
There is the sparse occasion such as the kid who took something and runs around naked threatening people or attacking a cop (in this case the cop shot him, even though he was unarmed, which in its own right was the wrong decision) -- in cases like this, YES we need to be mindful of drug offenses because just the same if someone got really drunk and started threatening other people, we need to subdue the person.
I'm not, again, backing LE activity towards drug offenses 100%, because there are just as many cases where the law is wrong about an action taken against a drug related activity, but there's also just about as many times where LE was right. It's 50-50 and entirely subjective towards the experience.
You need to be mindful of what is responsible use of a substance (chilling at home with friends and tripping), vs. irresponsible (giving a naive kid a sheet of acid and telling him its okay to eat all of it and run around town) -- you know how a drug affects you and may affect others, you should take responsibility for your actions and decisions concerning drugs and drug usage. But no, ordering a gram of weed on the SR doesn't constitute having your home broken into and your possessions destroyed because this will NOT benefit the community in any way.
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Not at all PoohBear, I don't get the impression you were ever involved intimately with any government - I was simply hoping that your clarified world view of things, greater than kids on a public board, wasn't born of you yourself suffering.
oh, okay now I'm reading it properly and understand. Thanks for the clarification. I guess I'm bit defensive at this point.
As far as the ones who have liberally and baselessly condemned me. Can you not find anything to back up your claims? Any misplaced word that gives even a hint that you were correct in your accusations. mmm... and you think you are well suited to make judgements of others? This is only a 4 page thread. all that you need to back up your accusations, if they were accurate, is here in black and white.
You can't even make an accurate judgment from 4 pages of materiel, and you think you are capable to judge a persons whole life?
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Well never mind. I thought I would have an adult discussion, instead I get these two simple minded morons.. I wouldn't reply either.
As far as you two morons. Unless you're LE I don't see why you're responding. The title of the thread was not "Question for the biggest fucking idiots online" If you really believe what you wrote then I really hope the LE find you and fast and get you off the street.
You got that right, brother. WTF am those too morons thinkin?
LE do put their lives on the line, some of them. Some are just typical gov. employees who know it's a better way to be on the dole. Others are like those border bobbies shooting children on the other side of a fence (in another country BTW) because they threw rocks at them.
WTF? When did the USA become Lebanon, Gaza, and Iran all rolled into one? Oh, yeah, because 3,000 people died in a building in NYC so we had to go and kill 200,000 backward-ass bitches living in sand holes and sacrifice our economy, 5,000 brave men and women, and our national dignity through torture.
LE is just as brainwashed as our military and our politicians (who think they are in charge as they cast their vote for laws the corporations wrote and handed to them).
Say goodbye to the fucking constitution and bill of rights. Say goodbye to democracy. Say goodbye to your children's dreams and hopes. If Romney gets to choose the next one or two Supreme Court Judges, say goodbye to me cause I'm fucking moving to Thailand.
Modzi
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It's a shame that this thread got derailed like that. Although there are some great posts in here /tiphat
Let me jump on the original question though. I cannot tell you why I know what I know or where I have gotten that knowledge, because in my specific circumstance even a tidbit of that information would really narrow down where to look for me. Hence, a simple "I am a career changer" will have to suffice for you.
First of all, your question addresses the basic "grunts" of LE. People skimming in this forum likely wouldn't even be detectives, but rather some data technicians. The "War on Drugs" is a policy issue, grunts don't get to make policy, or even give a lot of feedback to the process, they are there to follow orders.
Now, lets separate grunts into their two main categories:
Category A: Pigs. Idiots that derive their self-worth from fucking around with other people. Usually their main motivation to go on the job was the desire to run around with a badge and gun telling other people what to do. Anectodally, I'd say about half of the police forces in the country.
Category B: Genuine do-gooders, that went on the job with an actual desire to serve their communities.
At this point, I will only address category B. Mainly because the answer to the question posted by OP could likely fill a whole book. Too many variables.
Now lets talk a bit about entering the service. Most police forces in the country have undergone some sort of "militarization". I mean look at them, SWATS running around like they're SpecOps somewhere in Kandaharr. Correspondingly, most police academies are now run like military boot camps. I know of one indoc manual that is almost a one-on-one copy of the USMC MCO-1510.32D sprinkled with some NAVMC 2691. So what's the problem? The problem is that the stated mission of the boot camps of all 5 services is to break an individual down completely, to then reshape them into what the service needs. And trust me, it works.
Now you have these people graduating that wanted to do good, but their heads are filled with "war analogies". Basically, everyone that isn't us, is the enemy. That's step one of the derailment.
Now you have all these salty boots that need to prove themselves. LE communities are very self-contained, and work carries over into your private life. Sociologically, the social environment within LE is no different than that of street gangs. As a matter of fact, they really are street gangs, with all that belongs to it. Their own omerta, outsider is always wrong, always back your partner no matter what atrocities they commit, etc. etc. etc.
So here is our Mr. Goodietwoshoes salty boot all ready to serve the community and do good, trying to somehow align that with the social pressures of having to prove him- or herself as a good cop. Mind you, no medals for letting people go. Scan in on any cop radio channel and you will soon find that actual "service" calls are kinda looked down upon. You know like, no medals for saving a kitten from a tree.
Now, over time, two things happen: a) you have to keep in mind that every individual shapes their "reality" based on their day-by-day experiences. It might be easy for us here to lament "harmless" drugs being vilified. However, if you get to see the impact that some drugs have on society every day, your perception will change. You know, crack babies, people poisoning whole blocks with their meth labs, ghetto thugs predating on young girls to pimp them out, or yet another tweaker stabbing his mom or gf in a paranoia-fueled rage fit. It happens, now, every day.
Once you get to see that each and every day, in front of your own eyes, the "harmless drugs" argument becomes a joke to you.
Now combine this with "miseducation". Targeted miseducation I might add. To this day cops go to training sessions where they are taught that weed is a gateway drug and that MDMA will make your brain look like a swiss cheese. Obviously all outrages statements disproved by the scientific community ages ago. But hey, whats a grunt to do, ey? The bosses word is the word, and that's that.
The second thing that happens is that a majority of interactions cops have with civilians won't garner them much love, because usually they are a nuisance up to an outright thread. So slowly but surely the mindset switches to "them" vs. "us". Us is the guys with the badge, so we are good and always right.
I could go on and on and on but this would far exceed the scope of a forum post. And frankly, I have to tap into memories I am not particularly fond of and that I had stored away in the attic of my brain for over 13 years now. Maybe they are best left there.
In summary I can tell you this: The cops of category B, the good ones, usually think they are actually helping you by putting you away. Cuffs on, to the slammer, and at the end of the day you think hey, I got an arrest on my stats and that person is going somewhere where they can get clean and get help.
The "War on Drugs" thing is trickle down policies from waaaay up above. Your basic grunt cop knows about as much of the true motivations as your average John Q. Taxpayer. They dun know or dun care about the fact that the reason the US has a higher per capita incarceration rate than China is because the private prison industry is booming out the ass and raking in gazillions. They dunno that this very powerful industry lobbies Washington out the ass for hardline "lock-em-all-up" policies. Even if they know, what can they do?
I think any cop with some brains left after indoc and the first boot year will soon know how hypocritical the system really is. All civilized nations in the world have found that criminalizing drug users is counter-productive. Drug abuse is a health issue, not a criminal offense. But the thing is, mind you, once you are indoc'ed into such a "gang environment", it is really hard to quit it. All these organizations work by the principle of self-respect in exchange for obedience. So once you are in there, and their indoctrination programs designed by hordes of psychologists get a grip, you are constantly subjected to subliminal "we = good, they = bad, collateral damage = unavoidable" messages.
I can only confirm what someone wrote in a post above, it is usually the old dogs with 25 to 35 yr service jackets, that will agree with you that this whole war on drugs thing is one big fucking bullshit. They know exactly and will tell you that it is nothing but a big huge fat money machine. I mean common, the private prison industry now trades very successfully on Wall St., courtesy of a never-ending supply of slave labor. The cops are motivated by being allowed to keep what they seize. And oh my how the cash rolls in. Cars, houses, cash, you name it. That is the incentive for higher-ups to install review and training programs to keep the grunts in line and from thinking too much.
So, at the end of the day, this guy who just fucked up your future and tore your family apart and made sure that you will never be able to trust your government again will go home and think to himself he'd dun you a favor by giving you a chance to clean up. Maybe he'll tell himself "who knows? that guy was so strung out he might have been on the way to slit someone's throat!" or something like that.
Anyway, I digress, OP, I hope this addressed your original question a bit. This topic is too complex to cover on a forum, it would fill books. From the social dynamics within self-enclosed communities like LE, to the fact that decriminalization works wonders (just look at the Netherlands or Portugal) to the corrupt policy-makers getting their pockets lined by this tremendously powerful industry.
....sigh....
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One more person checking in who isn't LE, but knows people who are. Every last one of them believes that by putting drug users and dealers in cuffs and/or bars, they're keeping their families safe. And the reason they believe that is because they believe the lie that drugs make people into criminals, whereas the reality is that prohibition makes them so.
Is that an excuse? Nope. The saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is usually bullshit, but when it comes to natural law (i.e., don't hurt peaceful people and don't take what isn't yours) it certainly applies. A cop who locks up a nonviolent "criminal" violates the rule of law as far as I'm concerned, and I'll tell him that to his face even if he is my friend (and have done, in fact).
But regarding those calling for the deaths of LEOs, I've only got two words: "Agents provocateur".
Otherwise, I'm with PoohBear. A cornered animal lashes out in rage and fear at its oppressors, but a human being can be better than that, and if he wishes to distinguish himself as something other than a dumb, amoral beast then he should choose to be better than that. One can indulge his base instincts to hurt whatever hurts him, or he can exercise control over his instincts and live graciously and peacefully. The very existence of civilization depends on the latter, because the former is thoughtless, heartless, destructive and hopeless.
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having just been reading the officer.com forums (forums for LEO's) it amazes me on the quality of conversation that takes place on there compared to here. It astounds me that these people actually believe they are the smart ones when anyone right-minded person comparing this website to theirs would see it as comparing war and peace to some graffiti on a toilet cubicle wall.
BC
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I do not base my actions on the actions of others. I am an independent free thinking man. To let others actions determine mine would be to give them control over me. I choose to be empathetic and compassionate.
I was attacked by a dog when I was a child. I wasn't threatening to the dog, I was only trying to pet it. For whatever reason the it attacked me, and it was a severe attack. I had stitches shots, they had to put the dog down to test for rabies, but because of that incident I do not go around killing all dogs with prejudice. They are not all the same so why would I judge them the same?
Humans are much more complex creatures than dogs. I think we can agree on that. (Unless you think yourself less than a dog). But if we do agree that we are more complex, emotionally and intellectually, then how could you not feel empathy or compassion ? How is it that you can convict with prejudice?
the only answer I can come up with is you only feel for them what you feel for yourself.
Not all dogs bite without being provoked. All drug law enforcement agents attack without being provoked. Vicious dogs need to be put down.
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I do not base my actions on the actions of others. I am an independent free thinking man. To let others actions determine mine would be to give them control over me. I choose to be empathetic and compassionate.
I was attacked by a dog when I was a child. I wasn't threatening to the dog, I was only trying to pet it. For whatever reason the it attacked me, and it was a severe attack. I had stitches shots, they had to put the dog down to test for rabies, but because of that incident I do not go around killing all dogs with prejudice. They are not all the same so why would I judge them the same?
Humans are much more complex creatures than dogs. I think we can agree on that. (Unless you think yourself less than a dog). But if we do agree that we are more complex, emotionally and intellectually, then how could you not feel empathy or compassion ? How is it that you can convict with prejudice?
the only answer I can come up with is you only feel for them what you feel for yourself.
Not all dogs bite without being provoked. All drug law enforcement agents attack without being provoked. Vicious dogs need to be put down.
You do understand the concept of law? Yes? Keep your hands off drugs and you won't have to deal with drug enforcement agents, simple as that. Seriously, cheesh. If you don't like the law do something against it. It's called political activism. But then again that requires a measure of intellect and coordination. It is so ridiculously funny that someone who is all to eager to make Nazi analogies would at the same time splurge out "kill all LE" hate rants. You would have made a great "Gauleiter", they ticked all the same way you do.
It is tragically ironic that you can't see that your mindset is exactly that which drives those you so despise.
You are the same as them, just on the other side of the spectrum. A hate mongering zealot is a hate mongering zealot, no matter what cause he purports to support.
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You do understand the concept of law? Yes? Keep your hands off drugs and you won't have to deal with drug enforcement agents, simple as that.
Actually in being an anarchist and not recognizing the legitimacy of the state, I also do not recognize the legitimacy of the "laws" of the state. I do recognize right from wrong though, you should try to learn to do the same. You see, your logic is horribly flawed. Essentially it boils down to "What the state says is right, those who go against the state are wrong!". This is called statism, and it is a serious disease. "Renounce your faith as a Jehovahs Witness and you will not be sent to a concentration camp, simple as that!". Does that seem like a just statement to you? Following your logic, that makes perfect sense, and it is the fault of the Jehovahs witnesses for not renouncing their faith and not the fault of the Nazis for being war criminals. Blind faith in the state is one of the leading causes of death. Also I highly suspect that you are law enforcement because nobody else would say such a fucking retarded thing.
Seriously, cheesh. If you don't like the law do something against it. It's called political activism. But then again that requires a measure of intellect and coordination. It is so ridiculously funny that someone who is all to eager to make Nazi analogies would at the same time splurge out "kill all LE" hate rants. You would have made a great "Gauleiter", they ticked all the same way you do.
The people making counter Nazi analogies are using flawed logic. There is a difference between extermination of a people simply for existing, and the extermination of people who engage in victim causing criminal activities. It is a massively important distinction at that. Do you think that saying "Kill all the serial killers!" is a statement reminiscent of the Nazis? Or are you capable of seeing that saying "Kill all the child rapist/murderers!" is not equivalent to saying "Kill all the left handed people!". Your apparent inability to distinguish between these two sentences is actually very alarming to me.
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Actually, it is your logic that is flawed. You feel enticed by anarchistic theories. The thing is, there has never been and there will never be a society that is not shaped and guided by some sort of state and government.
What makes you think that you have any rights whatsoever just because you were born?
In lofty Rothbardian conceptualizations that all might sound nice and well. In reality, it is nothing but utopian pipe dreams. You were born into a society, hence you are the member of that society. The gazelle does not get to say "oh hai, I dun like your herd, therefore I reject it and decide to be a lion instead"
The problem with your particular logic however is simple. I don't even see you as an anarchist, because a true anarchist would never assume the "authority" to decide over whether another living being deserves to live or not, much less have the notions of grandeur to be judge over a whole class of humans, in your case, LE.
Your self-definition as anarchist is nothing but a smoke screen to lend legitimacy to your hating. I cannot take anyone serious that would wish death upon 100s of 1000s of people by mere affiliation. That is, by definition, insanity, not anarchism.
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Actually, it is your logic that is flawed. You feel enticed by anarchistic theories. The thing is, there has never been and there will never be a society that is not shaped and guided by some sort of state and government.
What makes you think that you have any rights whatsoever just because you were born?
In lofty Rothbardian conceptualizations that all might sound nice and well. In reality, it is nothing but utopian pipe dreams. You were born into a society, hence you are the member of that society. The gazelle does not get to say "oh hai, I dun like your heard, therefore I reject it and decide to be a lion instead"
The problem with your particular logic however is simple. I don't even see you as an anarchist, because a true anarchist would never assume the "authority" to decide over whether another living being deserves to live or not, much less have the notions of grandeur to be judge over a whole class of humans, in your case, LE.
Your self-definition as anarchist is nothing but a smoke screen to lend legitimacy to your hating. I cannot take anyone serious that would wish death upon 100s of 1000s of people by mere affiliation. That is, by definition, insanity, not anarchism.
If a person is a member of the child rapist murderer club it is enough for me to judge them by their affiliation and wish death to them. I don't care if the club has one or one million members.
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Actually, it is your logic that is flawed. You feel enticed by anarchistic theories. The thing is, there has never been and there will never be a society that is not shaped and guided by some sort of state and government.
What makes you think that you have any rights whatsoever just because you were born?
In lofty Rothbardian conceptualizations that all might sound nice and well. In reality, it is nothing but utopian pipe dreams. You were born into a society, hence you are the member of that society. The gazelle does not get to say "oh hai, I dun like your heard, therefore I reject it and decide to be a lion instead"
The problem with your particular logic however is simple. I don't even see you as an anarchist, because a true anarchist would never assume the "authority" to decide over whether another living being deserves to live or not, much less have the notions of grandeur to be judge over a whole class of humans, in your case, LE.
Your self-definition as anarchist is nothing but a smoke screen to lend legitimacy to your hating. I cannot take anyone serious that would wish death upon 100s of 1000s of people by mere affiliation. That is, by definition, insanity, not anarchism.
If a person is a member of the child rapist murderer club it is enough for me to judge them by their affiliation and wish death to them. I don't care if the club has one or one million members.
So LE personnel = child rapist murderers
I gotta tell you man, you are moving farther and farther out there...
But let me ask you this, you say that it is okay to lump all people of a certain affiliation together. So how about this, some people really can't handle their drugs and do some really depraved shit. Babykilling included. By your logic, shouldn't then all drug users be lumped together and put to death for belonging to the "I microwaved my baby in a crack frenzy"-club?
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Actually, it is your logic that is flawed. You feel enticed by anarchistic theories. The thing is, there has never been and there will never be a society that is not shaped and guided by some sort of state and government.
What makes you think that you have any rights whatsoever just because you were born?
In lofty Rothbardian conceptualizations that all might sound nice and well. In reality, it is nothing but utopian pipe dreams. You were born into a society, hence you are the member of that society. The gazelle does not get to say "oh hai, I dun like your heard, therefore I reject it and decide to be a lion instead"
The problem with your particular logic however is simple. I don't even see you as an anarchist, because a true anarchist would never assume the "authority" to decide over whether another living being deserves to live or not, much less have the notions of grandeur to be judge over a whole class of humans, in your case, LE.
Your self-definition as anarchist is nothing but a smoke screen to lend legitimacy to your hating. I cannot take anyone serious that would wish death upon 100s of 1000s of people by mere affiliation. That is, by definition, insanity, not anarchism.
If a person is a member of the child rapist murderer club it is enough for me to judge them by their affiliation and wish death to them. I don't care if the club has one or one million members.
So LE personnel = child rapist murderers
I gotta tell you man, you are moving farther and farther out there...
But let me ask you this, you say that it is okay to lump all people of a certain affiliation together. So how about this, some people really can't handle their drugs and do some really depraved shit. Babykilling included. By your logic, shouldn't then all drug users be lumped together and put to death for belonging to the "I microwaved my baby in a crack frenzy"-club?
Yes, as soon as there is no distinction to be made between 'drug user' and 'baby killer'. There already is no distinction to be made between 'DEA agent' and 'Violent criminal'.
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-snip-
Yes, as soon as there is no distinction to be made between 'drug user' and 'baby killer'. There already is no distinction to be made between 'DEA agent' and 'Violent criminal'.
See that statement is completely arbitrary and your personal opinion. You are doing the same thing they do. In their opinion, drug users are all bad, so lock them all up. In your opinion, DEA agents are all bad, so lets kill 'em all.
You reject the state for being arbitrary and presumptuous, yet you do the very same thing they do, just from another perspective.
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-snip-
Yes, as soon as there is no distinction to be made between 'drug user' and 'baby killer'. There already is no distinction to be made between 'DEA agent' and 'Violent criminal'.
See that statement is completely arbitrary and your personal opinion. You are doing the same thing they do. In their opinion, drug users are all bad, so lock them all up. In your opinion, DEA agents are all bad, so lets kill 'em all.
You reject the state for being arbitrary and presumptuous, yet you do the very same thing they do, just from another perspective.
You must envision a world where nothing gets done because nobody can know anything including right from wrong, and even if they did it would only be subjective. What a stagnant world that would be :(.
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-snip-
Yes, as soon as there is no distinction to be made between 'drug user' and 'baby killer'. There already is no distinction to be made between 'DEA agent' and 'Violent criminal'.
See that statement is completely arbitrary and your personal opinion. You are doing the same thing they do. In their opinion, drug users are all bad, so lock them all up. In your opinion, DEA agents are all bad, so lets kill 'em all.
You reject the state for being arbitrary and presumptuous, yet you do the very same thing they do, just from another perspective.
You must envision a world where nothing gets done because nobody can know anything including right from wrong, and even if they did it would only be subjective. What a stagnant world that would be :(.
Oh but things do get done, just not at the pace some hot-headed extremists would like it to. The process is long and cumbersome and riddled with failures, but it is ongoing. Whether its individual states in the US starting to legalize weed or Portugal semi-legalizing all drugs, progress is made.
In the case of the US, there are 340 million people trying to live their lives. Anyone coming along being so sure in their perception of "justice" that they can be prosecutor, judge and executioner all at once is already disqualified from making meaningful decisions. That goes for overbearing government as well as for individuals.
Or in the words of the wise Obiwan Kenobi: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes"
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Lots of people are imprisoned for purchasing personal use amounts. A lot of countries introduced life sentences for drug smuggling. A lot of corrupted officials use the war on drugs for getting their personal profits. Some politicians offered to prohibit Tor and anonymity in the name of the war on drugs. Innocent people not related to drugs are busted and charged.
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And that is all true and terrifying. I have never questioned that. The proper response to that is to go out and do something that may actually result in something constructive. Donate to the TOR project, swamp your congressman's office with letters, vote, make sure others vote, whip out your phone cam whenever you see an arrest, yes you can contribute to accountability, believe it or not, join any of the various interest groups around the country. The only thing that will change the status quo is an overwhelming mass of in uniso voices demanding the same thing.
Hanging out on an anonymous forum splurging "KILL ALL LE" hate rants plays right into their hands. (Asides from being caveman primitive).
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Law enforcement are just doing their job... when people choose that as a career, I'm sure the opinions they have don't count in regards to the law of that country they are just going by the book. Can't blame em. Lets face it, sometimes people that take drugs are fuckheads and I want LE to stop those crazed mother fuckers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.
I do happen to know some LE. Their job doesn't define them. Just like mine doesn't define me. I go to work everyday and I may have to do things I don't agree with 100%
This defines you completely
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
Many children with Down syndrome graduate from high school and are able to do paid work
lol this comment made me feel so much better.I was about to leave a rage comment about how much of a troll AND a dumb ass poohbear is but hes so ignorant that he isn't even worth the time or effort it does make me a little sad though that he would waste a perfectly good brain that is actually capable of thoughts without someone else putting them into his head for him.Plus you're post made me a little less defensive and it made me smile :D and to the fucking idiots in this thread get off the pigs dicks for real these aint opinions they are stating facts.I think all of you are trolls lol none of you actually believe this bullshit pro-police shit you're talking I don't think anyone is actually that stupid.I think you're just trolling for a laugh or two.
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lol this comment made me feel so much better.I was about to leave a rage comment about how much of a troll AND a dumb ass poohbear is but hes so ignorant that he isn't even worth the time or effort it does make me a little sad though that he would waste a perfectly good brain that is actually capable of thoughts without someone else putting them into his head for him.Plus you're post made me a little less defensive and it made me smile :D and to the fucking idiots in this thread get off the pigs dicks for real these aint opinions they are stating facts.I think all of you are trolls lol none of you actually believe this bullshit pro-police shit you're talking I don't think anyone is actually that stupid.I think you're just trolling for a laugh or two.
Real tough guy, huh. Wrah wrah KILL THE POLICE!!! Wrah!
The funny thing is though that most people displaying such dispositions in "online forums" usually squeal like little piggies at the first glance of some heat around the corner. Viva la revolucion my ass.
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Law enforcement are just doing their job... when people choose that as a career, I'm sure the opinions they have don't count in regards to the law of that country they are just going by the book. Can't blame em. Lets face it, sometimes people that take drugs are fuckheads and I want LE to stop those crazed mother fuckers.
Then I want the court systems to give out the justice. But that never happens.
This argument didn't work for the SS (and other Nazis) at Nuremberg, and it isn't going to work now.
Yes, they do carry part of the blame of the war on drugs and its consequences on millions of people.
While this is not the Holocaust, can you deny that the war on drugs has a negative, many times severe, effect on millions of people worldwide? From the farmers exploited by cartels, to those who OD and die because people are afraid to call for help, those who are convinced to smuggle drugs because they need the money, and all users who need to pay exorbitant sums of money for drugs on which they depend which in reality are dirt cheap - with all the negative consequences that this brings with it.
LE are not the only culpable ones (there are politicians, there are the courts, and there are also those civilians who support the war), but it is an undeniable fact, except to the most obtuse among us, that LE play a crucial role in the war. Whether they agree with the actions they undertake or not is not important - the fact is that they are complicit in this criminal war.
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PoohBear and Johnwholesome represent an advanced and mature understanding of how society works.
Blanket statements that condemn an entire category of millions people to death is at best immature, shortsighted, reactionary and silly. This is exactly how Pol Pot, Idi Amin, and a whole pile of other dictators ruled their lands and if you don't know what happened there you should educate yourself on those finer points before spouting off about death and justice.
Pol Pot didn't like capitalists (among other things). He argued that they contributed to suffering and death, and he was right insofar as people had died due to starvation and gross uneven distribution of the necessities of life. So rather than lead his country towards a more socialist path by creating laws that took power away from capitalists and feed the masses, he decided that the capitalists should simply all die because they themselves were criminals who had contributed to unjust persecution of the common man. His logic was sound. Justice was due.
In the end he did exactly that, the killing fields were born, but he didn't stop there, he targeted members of religious communities and intellects. Historical records vary but approximately 1/4 - 1/3 of all people in Cambodia were put to death .. because they were guilty of various crimes with grains of truth attached to them.
Back to present day LE - they are simply tools of the state. If we as a society decide that drugs or anything else is "A-ok" then guess what will happen - they will not imprison people for it anymore. These changes come from us, the people in western democracies.
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I guess where I have to disagree with you (other than essentially everywhere) is in the fact that I don't think if society wants to enslave black people that it becomes okay. I am glad to know that as soon as I convince a majority to kill LE that you will jump on board though :).
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I guess where I have to disagree with you (other than essentially everywhere) is in the fact that I don't think if society wants to enslave black people that it becomes okay. I am glad to know that as soon as I convince a majority to kill LE that you will jump on board though :).
Touche! - You got me there. You're right - society doesn't always make the best decisions. We see this historically (your slavery example is perfect) and currently (The war on drugs). However if what you're looking for is perfection you will never find it. No society has, or ever will achieve this. We can only do the best we can with what we have at the time. No one is perfect, no one is unconditionally right. If you take any ideology to it's logical extreme it will not make sense. This is what moderation and tolerance are for; to ensure that no one ideology goes haywire and results in absolute adherence to it's uncompromising value.
Look at current day Afghanistan - the Taliban just took responsibility for shooting a 14 yr girl in the head. Her crime? She spoke out for education of girls in the Swat valley. This does not jive with the Taliban's ideology of Islam. They warned her repeatedly! They gave her every chance to back down! She was a threat to their perfect vision. She must die. A 14 yr old girl must die for wanting to be educated. WTF? This is the result of extremism.
EDIT - for the record I won't hop on board when you convince most people to kill a lot of other people - I'll oppose you politically and speak out against you. You may end up killing me when I do that though.. so you know, add me to your list. ;)
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Doubtful that morality has much to do with it, at least in the case of most cops.
Catching bad guys is their job. Anyone should be able to understand the necessity for a job, and the fact is that if the war on drugs ceased to be, a lot of individuals employed through the U.S criminal justice system would be left unemployed. They need to keep the jails filled, for every empty cell is equivalent to a loss of profit for a lot of high profile individuals, and the state's funding in general.
I for one, as most people with any modicum of sanity nowadays, am heavily opposed to the drug war. My opposition sits on both morale grounds and an obvious sense of self-preservation (as you can infer from my participation on this website). So while I believe the drug war is folly and a corrupt money scheme, the fact remains that it acts as a cash cow for a lot of people that live within the boundaries of these unjust laws. Therefore, while I'm heavily opposed to the idea, I can understand the drive of many federal officials to continue this futile war. It was easily implimented through tactics of inciting public fear and paranoia, and it provides financial and job security to a great deal of government employees.
In my opinion, don't expect this war to end anytime soon. Both sides are financially driven (some morally as well), and neither side is willing to cease fire. Sadly, our side is plagued with the legal liability and is constantly vilified by the conservative side of society, so we must rely on our innovation and wit to get any stronghold in this fight.
Well said. Neither the cartels nor the government will ever admit this (at least aloud) but the worst catastrophe imaginable for either of them would be legalization. The cartels need drugs to remain illegal to sustain their profits; the government needs drugs to remain illegal to support the police-prison-industrial complex.
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Law enforcement are just doing their job... when people choose that as a career, I'm sure the opinions they have don't count in regards to the law of that country they are just going by the book. Can't blame em. Lets face it, sometimes people that take drugs are fuckheads and I want LE to stop those crazed mother fuckers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.
I do happen to know some LE. Their job doesn't define them. Just like mine doesn't define me. I go to work everyday and I may have to do things I don't agree with 100%
This defines you completely
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
Many children with Down syndrome graduate from high school and are able to do paid work
lol this comment made me feel so much better.I was about to leave a rage comment about how much of a troll AND a dumb ass poohbear is but hes so ignorant that he isn't even worth the time or effort it does make me a little sad though that he would waste a perfectly good brain that is actually capable of thoughts without someone else putting them into his head for him.Plus you're post made me a little less defensive and it made me smile :D and to the fucking idiots in this thread get off the pigs dicks for real these aint opinions they are stating facts.I think all of you are trolls lol none of you actually believe this bullshit pro-police shit you're talking I don't think anyone is actually that stupid.I think you're just trolling for a laugh or two.
I'm curios what is it you think you know about me except that I've condemned mass murder? Please no more of this popping off bs. If you're going say I'm dumb ass back it up, or shut the fuck up. Because you aren't actually contributing and you're just wasting space. If it makes you feel better to call me a dumb ass send me a PM. at least you won't clutter and interfere with an ongoing discussion.
I swear it just like when people answer a thread "I don't know"....What is the point?
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To the prophets spreading their truths to the rest of us,
Your perceptions are distorted by hatred and fanaticism.
You reject your government for it's intolerance and arbitrary judgement, but your arguments are driven by the same sentiments.
Your mindset has been responsible for an extraordinary amount death and suffering over the course of history.
Not only do you refuse to accept any truths besides your own, you attempt to force your truths down the throats of a resisting population.
What is the source of your newly acquired divinity? Did your god come down to earth and speak with you? Did he appear in front of you in a vision and show you the way? Or have you been receiving otherworldly messages in your sleep?
Seriously, just leave everyone else the fuck alone.
Until people stop assuming the right to play god, there will be no real end to the violence and oppression.
That goes for both kinds of zealots; LE and the self appointed crusaders for humanity who want to wipe them out.
-schmuck
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Schmuckk you bring up a great pont...
life ain't fair, the good suffer and the evil prosper. When you come to terms with that you will stop being so angry and hateful. I in no way am writing we should idly stand by while others suffer. Just that one should not react and expect retribution for every single thing. Keeping score like that will only make you go crazy.
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Personally, I am of the opinion that every LE official, and everyone from every government agency needs to be executed. This needs to happen to them, before it happens to us. I firmly believe a civil war is brewing, and guess what guys? It is either going to be us or them. We must defend our Liberty, it has been trampled all over for far too long now.
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Do you plan on explaining why you think civil war is about to break out and where? Or are you just another one of these people that likes to talk about shit, but don't know a damn thing.
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Yeah, bro. I just like to talk shit.
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Do you plan on explaining why you think civil war is about to break out and where? Or are you just another one of these people that likes to talk about shit, but don't know a damn thing.
PoohBear,
Brother - I don't think there's much more to say here. A lot of posters to this thread are kids or newbies. No one 's presented any real knowledge of the world, only conspiracies, paranoia and ideological spit. If any one of these guys had to be the one to do the executions they would probably shit themselves first.
My only regret about this thread is that so many people are so quick to condemn others not to prison, but to DEATH based on some paranoid vision of retribution.
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Doubtful that morality has much to do with it, at least in the case of most cops.
Catching bad guys is their job. Anyone should be able to understand the necessity for a job, and the fact is that if the war on drugs ceased to be, a lot of individuals employed through the U.S criminal justice system would be left unemployed. They need to keep the jails filled, for every empty cell is equivalent to a loss of profit for a lot of high profile individuals, and the state's funding in general.
I for one, as most people with any modicum of sanity nowadays, am heavily opposed to the drug war. My opposition sits on both morale grounds and an obvious sense of self-preservation (as you can infer from my participation on this website). So while I believe the drug war is folly and a corrupt money scheme, the fact remains that it acts as a cash cow for a lot of people that live within the boundaries of these unjust laws. Therefore, while I'm heavily opposed to the idea, I can understand the drive of many federal officials to continue this futile war. It was easily implimented through tactics of inciting public fear and paranoia, and it provides financial and job security to a great deal of government employees.
In my opinion, don't expect this war to end anytime soon. Both sides are financially driven (some morally as well), and neither side is willing to cease fire. Sadly, our side is plagued with the legal liability and is constantly vilified by the conservative side of society, so we must rely on our innovation and wit to get any stronghold in this fight.
Well said. Neither the cartels nor the government will ever admit this (at least aloud) but the worst catastrophe imaginable for either of them would be legalization. The cartels need drugs to remain illegal to sustain their profits; the government needs drugs to remain illegal to support the police-prison-industrial complex.
Well said. I don't understand the gov't thinking on this If they truly wanted to win the war on drugs they would legalize or at least decriminalize them. In what other war does a government actually help the other side? This is not a statement of conspiracy but of fact. If drugs were legal they would be traded on the open market. Which means prices go down and quality up.
The simple facts that drugs are addictive and illegal manufacturers can charge whatever they want and they don't have to follow any regulations in regards to quality.
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Please explain to me what being a "newbie" on this forum has anything to do with ones ideologies, beliefs, and thoughts on the direction of this country? If you guys can't see the fascism, control, and all the innocent lives being taken in this country, then you are very naive, I am sorry to say. People like you putting all this trust in the government and people in power is what has put us in the position we are in today.
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The war on drugs is not about win or loose. It is about control.
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Yeah, bro. I just like to talk shit.
I do apologize. I just got some upsetting news about something totally unrelated and I just lashed out. That was a very immature thing to do. Again I apologize.
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wackmanblu - You're right. I shouldn't have lashed out like that. See the thread above.
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Please explain to me what being a "newbie" on this forum has anything to do with ones ideologies, beliefs, and thoughts on the direction of this country? If you guys can't see the fascism, control, and all the innocent lives being taken in this country, then you are very naive, I am sorry to say. People like you putting all this trust in the government and people in power is what has put us in the position we are in today.
I meant posters "new to this thread".
... and if you seriously believe that we're living in fascist states, then that proves to me that you truly don't know what you're talking about. What's funny is that you call me naive.
The truth is that never in the history of the world have more people been given more freedom to do more of whatever they want to do than today. This is fact. This isn't some vaguely defined shit I'm spouting. If you value the freedoms you have today, or if you even understand what they are, then you should pay more respect to what you call fascist or who you call Nazi. I don't know how much clearer this can be made. I respect your opinion, but I'll call you out if you don't answer intelligently.
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Just like I'll call you out for being an obvious Obama loving fascist. This is just my "unintelligent" opinion though. If you really think this is the time that people have had the most freedom, then you have allowed the government to trick you. See if that blanket of security is still going to be protecting you in the years to come when one of the EPA's swat teams kicks in your door and kills you. Good luck to you sir.
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Just like I'll call you out for being an obvious Obama loving fascist. This is just my "unintelligent" opinion though. If you really think this is the time that people have had the most freedom, then you have allowed the government to trick you. See if that blanket of security is still going to be protecting you in the years to come when one of the EPA's swat teams kicks in your door and kills you. Good luck to you sir.
You sir, are an idiot.
If I could, I would walk across the room and slap you on your little pimply 17 yr old face.
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Just like I'll call you out for being an obvious Obama loving fascist. This is just my "unintelligent" opinion though. If you really think this is the time that people have had the most freedom, then you have allowed the government to trick you. See if that blanket of security is still going to be protecting you in the years to come when one of the EPA's swat teams kicks in your door and kills you. Good luck to you sir.
... I mean, what is exactly is an "Obama loving fascist" .. and why would the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) kick my door in and kill me? I just don't get where you're pulling this from.
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Google EPA swat teams. Explain to me why sheriff offices are now using drones to spy on us. Explain why they need military grade weapons for use against civilians. Explain the NDAA, and the Patriot Act. Once you have looked these things up, please, explain to me how we are still free and not a fascist country. By the way, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Not only are you wrong about my level of intelligence, age, and appearance. But by that comment you just proved to me how mature and intelligent you are, relying on those low level insults,actually made me lol.
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I still don't know what an Obama loving fascist is and I'm still not clear on why anyone would kick in my door and kill me.
You're spouting paranoid fear that only seems to exist in "something you heard" or what some meth head goes on about. I don't know anybody who's had their door kicked in and been killed by a government agency, I read about it every now and then in some major news outlets and considering that there are literally 390 million of us in North America, I'm surprised more mistakes aren't made. What's significant here is that we hear of them at all. This can only exist in a society that has freedom as one of it's main priorities.
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I am not a meth head, nor have I ever used meth. That is the problem right there, you only watch major news outlets. Do some of your own research, read some books. There are plenty examples of how America is a totally fascist country. Word to the wise, stop watching FOX, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and all the propaganda they spew. Television and the public education system as brought this country to its knees with stupidity. Not that I am saying you're stupid (anybody that can access SR and support its use probably isn't) , and obviously you are not, and I am at least happy you stand by your convictions.
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You assume that I only pay attention to major news outlets simply because you read me mention them as a reference. ::)
I have many sources of news and information that I either:
A) Trust
B) Can read between the lines with
C) Don't trust at all and therefore can extrapolate a lot of information from
All your information comes from .... who, where exactly? - The Internet?
Why don't you give a few examples of how America is fascist. Real examples, not just some mythical ideology
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The war on drugs for one. The NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act), The Patriot Act. Those are just to name a few. I doubt you have heard of the NDAA or the patriot act. A lot of people don't know about them, even though they should be common knowledge.
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Started a new thread about fascist America, since this discussion has taken a turn from what OP was first asking about in the start of the thread.
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yeah we diverged a long time ago.
btw:
I'm a meth head! :)
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Haha, hey! Nothing wrong with that! I'm not opposed to meth at all, I'm actually quite curious about it, as I'm prescribed dextroamphetamine, so there must be some similarities. Anyway, I was simply trying to prove a point to Wackmanblu that I'm not a meth head :D.
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Sorry PoohBear, we did hijack the thread, still respect you sister. See you around!
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How do you feel about the fact that regardless of if you are "just" doing your job or truly are a fascist , that when the revolution comes your back will be up against the wall and your bullet riddled corpses will be fed to wild animals?
They won't feel anything until the bullets hit, most LEO's are sociopaths. Let's get on with the executions already. 8)
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How do you feel about the fact that regardless of if you are "just" doing your job or truly are a fascist , that when the revolution comes your back will be up against the wall and your bullet riddled corpses will be fed to wild animals?
They won't feel anything until the bullets hit, most LEO's are sociopaths. Let's get on with the executions already. 8)
+1 for sure. Locked & Loaded boys!!
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How do you feel about the fact that regardless of if you are "just" doing your job or truly are a fascist , that when the revolution comes your back will be up against the wall and your bullet riddled corpses will be fed to wild animals?
They won't feel anything until the bullets hit, most LEO's are sociopaths. Let's get on with the executions already. 8)
What do you propose we have instead of LE to keep order in society and protect people?
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How do you feel about the fact that regardless of if you are "just" doing your job or truly are a fascist , that when the revolution comes your back will be up against the wall and your bullet riddled corpses will be fed to wild animals?
They won't feel anything until the bullets hit, most LEO's are sociopaths. Let's get on with the executions already. 8)
What do you propose we have instead of LE to keep order in society and protect people?
Ourselves.
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Well I'm going to lock this thread we've beaten this to death, but I would like to leave you with an except from on of my favorite authors. I think it is very relevant to some of the personalities we have seen.
"The True Believer", by Eric Hoffer
Sections 61 and 62
61
The fanatic is perpetually incomplete and insecure. He cannot generate self-assurance out of his individual resources—out of his rejected self—but finds it only by clinging passionately to whatever support he happens to embrace. This passionate attachment is the essence of his blind devotion and religiosity, and he sees in it the source of all virtue and strength. Though his single-minded dedication is a holding on for dear life, he easily sees himself as the supporter and defender of the holy cause to which he clings. And he is ready to sacrifice his life to demonstrate to himself and others that such indeed is his role. He sacrifices his life to prove his worth. It goes without saying that the fanatic is convinced that the cause he holds on to is monolithic and eternal—a rock of ages. Still, his sense of security is derived from his passionate attachment and not from the excellence of his cause. The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness and holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold on to. Often, indeed, it is his need for passionate attachment which turns every cause he embraces into a holy cause. The fanatic cannot be weaned away from his cause by an appeal to his reason or moral sense. He fears compromise and cannot be persuaded to qualify the certitude and righteousness of his holy cause. But he finds no difficulty in swinging suddenly and wildly from one holy cause to another. He cannot be convinced but only converted. His passionate attachment is more vital than the quality of the cause to which he is attached.
62
Though they seem to be at opposite poles, fanatics of all kinds are actually crowded together at one end. It is the fanatic and the moderate who are poles apart and never meet. The fanatics of various hues eye each other with suspicion and are ready to fly at each other’s throat. But they are neighbors and almost of one family. They hate each other with the hatred of brothers. They are as far apart and close together as Saul and Paul. And it is easier for a fanatic Communist to be converted to fascism, chauvinism or Catholicism than to become a sober liberal. The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a God or not. The atheist is a religious person. He believes in atheism as though it were a new religion. He is an atheist with devoutness and unction. According to Renan, “The day after that on which the world should no longer believe in God, atheists would be the wretchedest of all men.”24 So, too, the opposite of the chauvinist is not the Traitor but the reasonable citizen who is in love with the present and has no taste for martyrdom and the heroic gesture. The traitor is usually a fanatic—radical or reactionary—who goes over to the enemy in order to hasten the downfall of a world he loathes. Most of the traitors in the Second World War came from the extreme right. “There seems to be a thin line between violent, extreme nationalism and reason.” The kinship between the reactionary and the radical has been dealt with in Section 52. All of us who lived through the Hitler decade know that the reactionary and the radical have more in common than either has with the liberal or the conservative.