Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Orinoko Flow on September 25, 2012, 09:16 pm
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Mtgox have followed intersango by suspending all UK bank transfers to their barclays bank, any ideas on how we're going to get bitcoin in the UK ?
Ive heard you might be able to send using barclays pingit and blockchain info but for some reason i cant open a wallet on blockchain info site, when i click open new wallet nothing happens.
They've offered an alternative of sending to their euro bank account but then you incur international bank transfer charges and may lose some cash on exchange rate ...
Very annoyed because i found Mtgox very reliable and great support when i needed it , anyone got any alternatives?
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Where on MTgox site does it say that UK Deposits to their Barclays bank is suspended? I found the bit about not sending payments to them on Sundays and Mondays but not anything about the 100% suspension of UK deposits.
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I don't see this anywhere either ?
Is this via the cash deposits or bank transfers that are suspended ?
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Never mind i found it. All is well as long as we don't deposit on those days.
Mt.Gox Support
posted this on Sep 20 16:22
Dear UK Customers,
Due to a technical limitation imposed by Barclays, we would like to recommend our users to avoid depositing funds on Saturdays, Sundays and Mondays to avoid any delays. Because of Barclays limitation on its business account history, we are only able to access a maximum of 300 entries per day on our account history during normal banking working days (Tuesday to Friday). Saturday, Sunday, and Monday are condensed into a single day and still bound to the same 300 entries per day limit, which explains some of our recent delays. While we are working with Barclays to increase or remove this 300 entries/day history limitation, we strongly advise our customers in the UK to limit their deposits only to Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays until we resolve this situation. Once again, we would like to apologies for the delay and inconvenience caused by this situation. Rest assure that we are doing our best to resolve this matter as fast as humanely possible.
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This is from their News Feed:
https://mtgox.com/press_release_20120925.html
OKYO - JAPAN - September 25, 2012 It is with regret that we have to inform our British users that you will no longer be able to deposit British Pounds (GBP) to our Barclays bank account from now on. While we have not yet been formerly contacted by Barclays or any of its representatives, we are as for today, unable to accept any GBP deposits into our Barclays account. Rest assure that we are doing our best to get to the bottom of this situation as well as being able to resolve this matter one way or another with Barclays or via other British and/ or European Banks. Meanwhile, please note that you can still use our Polish EUR Bank account for both Deposits and Withdrawals as well as our Japanese GBP account for deposits and withdrawals (additional fees may apply). On Behalf of the entire Mt.Gox team, please accept our apologizes for any inconvenience this temporary suspension of GBP deposits may have caused.
Regards
Mt.Gox Co. Ltd Team.
Media Contacts
press@mtgox.com
you can still send via swift/bank transfer, but it will take up to a week and cost £35+ in fees each time.... pretty shit really :(
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Im kind of assuming that MTGOX will be back available for UK deposits. it seems that Barclays has imposed a limit that has caused excess deposits to them to be held back rather than sent to the MTGOX system.
I've got funds stuck in it which are currently unavailable to me. gone from my bank, but barclays aren't releasing the money to mtgox.
afterall, it does say its temporary.
--- if anyone has other options for BTC, please PM me and lead me in the right direction ---
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I've got funds stuck in it which are currently unavailable to me. gone from my bank, but barclays aren't releasing the money to mtgox.
In the same boat unfortunately :(
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Ive heard you might be able to send using barclays pingit and blockchain info but for some reason i cant open a wallet on blockchain info site, when i click open new wallet nothing happens.
Sounds like a browser issue, you need to use a javascript enabled browser. Get on a public internet connection and try it with a browser that handles js normally and it should work.
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Oh fuck this is shit! It's getting harder to get coins in uk. Been looking at Bitcoin OTC but not much going on in GBP. Plus you need to establish your bona fides.
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So if MTGOX don't re-establish their UK service after the current problems how on earth are British users going to access BTC?
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Not seeing any other elegant way at the moment.
You can mail cash in the post, including GBP, to these guys in Denmark https://bitcoinnordic.com/cash/index.html
seems they charge 9% above the current mtgox rate though.
Any other ways?
What is needed is a shadyish bank in the UK who doesn't ask questions when thousands of random cash desposits flow in from all over the place :) There's good money to be made here if someone can get this instated legally.
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What about btc4ukash? Popped up on SR around August and I've heard only good things. Anyone else tried it? :)
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I've never used anything other than MT Gox for obtaining bitcoins, so at the moment I'm looking for other options because of the Barclays situation. Has anyone used this service below which the topic creator mentioned? (clearnet link)
https://blockchain.info/wallet/deposit-pingit
Basically it's an app for smartphones which you can use to send money from your UK bank account to this service which gives you bitcoins in return. Has anyone here obtained bitcoins that way? I'm probably going to give that service a try soon, but it would be nice to hear pros and cons from someone who has already used it. I'm guessing it's going to be kind of pricey, but probably less expensive (and considerably faster) than sending international bank transfers to MT Gox. I managed to set up my wallet there successfully, just haven't put any money in it yet.
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I got the same reply. Serves me right for not exchanging last week when I was going to. >:(
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I've never used anything other than MT Gox for obtaining bitcoins, so at the moment I'm looking for other options because of the Barclays situation. I found out about this method today, here's the clearnet link to it :
https://blockchain.info/wallet/deposit-pingit
Basically it's an app for smartphones which you can use to send money from your UK bank account to this service which gives you bitcoins in return. Has anyone here obtained bitcoins that way? I'm probably going to give that service a try soon, but it would be nice to hear pros and cons from someone who has already used it. I'm guessing it's going to be kind of pricey, but probably less expensive (and considerably faster) than sending international bank transfers to MT Gox.
This looks like a reasonable method if you're willing to put barclays app onto your phone.
Of course you are leaving a paper trail from your own account to blockchain. This was 1 extra layer of privacy with when depositing directly to a branch
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Ok, just got a reply about their Japan account and sent me their details:
P.S. 1000 yen is about £8
Account Name (Recipient): MtGox Co Ltd, Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan
Account Number: 845-7365426
SWIFT: SMBCJPJT
Bank Name: Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation
Branch Name (if required): Kichijoji
Bank address: Honcho 1-7-5, Kichijoji, Musashino, Tokyo, Japan, 180-0004
Message: M#######X (IMPORTANT: this message identifies you and will allow us to credit YOUR account)
Our bank charges a receiving fee of 1,000 Yen. Please refer -
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So to continue to use (for now at least) MtGox you have to pay £8 plus a 2.5% exchange rate and a variable fee that your bank will inevitably charge.
Not the end of the world but it will put a lot of people off I suspect.
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Im going to try the app and blockchain info so i'll let you know if it works , they claim to transfer in 10 minutes which will be great.
Im not sure what i do with one of the wallets things though..
I've never used anything other than MT Gox for obtaining bitcoins, so at the moment I'm looking for other options because of the Barclays situation. Has anyone used this service below which the topic creator mentioned? (clearnet link)
https://blockchain.info/wallet/deposit-pingit
Basically it's an app for smartphones which you can use to send money from your UK bank account to this service which gives you bitcoins in return. Has anyone here obtained bitcoins that way? I'm probably going to give that service a try soon, but it would be nice to hear pros and cons from someone who has already used it. I'm guessing it's going to be kind of pricey, but probably less expensive (and considerably faster) than sending international bank transfers to MT Gox. I managed to set up my wallet there successfully, just haven't put any money in it yet.
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So to continue to use (for now at least) MtGox you have to pay £8 on top of everything else?
Not the end of the world but it will put a lot of people off I suspect.
Also your bank will charge you a fee , ive enquired about sending to their European account in poland and most banks charge about £10 for an international transfer plus the polish bank charge is 10 PLN about £2. Im sure as hell dont want to pay £12 every time i put coin on the road >:(
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I think a transfer directly to japan will be the most expensive, highest visibility and longest method.
Blockchain seems decent if it works, using a mixer will be an absolute must though as there's a link between your own bank account and your wallet.
UKash is really easy to get in the UK (any newsagent with those yellow paypoint signs sell them). Any reliable ways of converting UKash to Bitcoin? That'd be a good anonymous way if there way.
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I think a transfer directly to japan will be the most expensive, highest visibility and longest method.
Blockchain seems decent if it works, using a mixer will be an absolute must though as there's a link between your own bank account and your wallet.
UKash is really easy to get in the UK (any newsagent with those yellow paypoint signs sell them). Any reliable ways of converting UKash to Bitcoin? That'd be a good anonymous way if there way.
Santander what is a mixer?
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I think a transfer directly to japan will be the most expensive, highest visibility and longest method.
Blockchain seems decent if it works, using a mixer will be an absolute must though as there's a link between your own bank account and your wallet.
UKash is really easy to get in the UK (any newsagent with those yellow paypoint signs sell them). Any reliable ways of converting UKash to Bitcoin? That'd be a good anonymous way if there way.
Like i said check out ukash4btc on sr. Also mercabit.eu seem legit
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Apologies should've been btc4ukash!
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I've seen a positive review of http://mercabit.eu so I'm willing to try this. I will report back, although won't be for a few days.
You're losing in the region of 10% but you are leaving no papertrail. Worth it imo.
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has anyone tried using bitinstant ukbanking transfere -> mtgox?
or possibly bit instant --> cryptoXchange --> mtgox?
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I think you guys are somewhat missing the point when there is some limitation imposed and then you go find other exchanges.
You should be going to over the counter bitcoin exchanges and local bitcoin exchanges (google these) instead. bitcoin-otc and local bitcoin and tradebitcoin
This way there is no 3rd party. You go to a bar, cafe, park, and swop currency for B$. Alternatively you use some escrow like service if geography is an issue.
Eventually all the exchanges will be shut down, and bitcoin will probably be made illegal, so you might as well prepare now rather than later.
These methods are far more anonymous and secure. The only real issue is your physical security, your operational security maybe somebody should make a whole thread on this.
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This is a right bugger, really wanted to place some orders for the weekend and I normally deposit cash at Barclays >:(
I queried the mtgox/tibanne account with a cashier at Barclays today and was informed it had been closed but they couldn't/wouldn't tell me more than that.
Currently investigating buying from a localish trader but I have concerns about meeting someone anon with a decent wedge of cash and ensuring I receive my BTC and avoid being robbed.
Does anyone have any experience in buying from a local trader and if so, do you have any tips?
Cheers
mrbump
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although pines paranoia is well placed, any paper trail leading to your SR purchases is surely the easiest way to get busted.
it just seems that now there is NO way to do a direct cash deposit to any UK/EU bitcoin purchasing sites.
also if the bitcoin dies, the road will.
OPTIMISM PLEASE PINE!!!
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I think you have misinterpreted my ideas. Time for a platypus rant from my burrow.
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Neither Bitcoin nor the Silk Road nor the Darknet markets are about to die just because some seriously overly confident bureaucrats shrug their shoulders at our various libertarian positions and think this an excellent opportunity to garner yet more funds from the fund of central government by hyping SR even further than it already has been in the media.
The essential reason for this: We do not need to ask permission. We are cipherpunks. We have our own Moral Code. This is something that annoys me about some posters on here. They perceive themselves as criminals or worse, not criminals at all. For a simple reason, neither of these views makes any sense if you're cryptoanarchist.
Yes, I believe the *State* considers me a criminal. I pay heed to such knowledge, and amend my affairs accordingly.
But no, I do not believe I *am* a criminal for a one second. I believe their moral code is wrong and mine is right. In their moral code, I am a criminal. In my moral code, I am not a criminal. It's not complicated.
This is for me, an important distinction. This is why I do not like Limetless's ideas about what it takes to be a 'business man' and all that macho bullshit because he is defining his actions by what the State considers him to be. This view is a self fulfilling prophesy of violence, and positively detrimental to everybody involved. Put simply; if the State says you are Scum, and then you begin to believe it, then you have lost the war.
You will notice bizarre things in this distorted world view. That wearing a hoody or black leather jacket makes you somehow dangerous or tough, when for everybody else you're simply loudly signalling *catch me, catch me* with your clothes, your body language, your behavior. If you shave your head, wear long hair into a pony tail, have a car that bounces on its wheels or a vehicle with "legalize weed" bumper stickers, don't be so surprised when your local police take a second look at you. You're practically telling them to catch you for fuck's sake.
Get a business suit, talk like a normal person and treat people with respect and honor. And lo, it shall be returned to you in the guise of a much different risk profile. It's practically urban camouflage for the drug war. I cannot emphasize enough that law enforcement strongly believe in ridiculous stereotypes about drug vendors and drug consumers.
Side Note: Furthermore, the words "junky" or "addict" and "dealer" are their words, not ours. Stop using them. Some people do need to get off drugs like opiates because they have become wholly dependent on them, but they are NOT junk, which is what that word is implying. They are human beings too, not sorry excuses of humanity. Use "consumer" and "vendor" instead. Drugs are not a dozen or so euphemisms, they are generically described as "product" and should be described by their chemical or scientific names, not their street names. This also makes it easier to talk about them. This is a more important concept than many people realize, our vocabulary influences our rational decision making. This is why the language of business is different to normal language, it puts people in the correct frame of reference.
Conversely, as I was saying before, it is bad to not consider oneself as being thought of as a criminal, because this is dangerous to your security. You should think like, and look through the eyes of your adversary in order to beat him, which is why some LE agents on this forum are probably attempting some LE equivalent of "total immersion", an anthropological technique to understand the natives. They are attempting the opposite of what I described you should be doing with your appearance. Standard stuff really.
Anyway, back to bitcoins and obtaining them:
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When bitcoin is made illegal and the exchanges are raided/shut down by legal means, this will not change anything.
There may be a brief lull, but then we'll be on the road stronger than ever with over the counter mechanisms. Much stronger than ever. We will simply consolidate our territory and build entrenchments. A respite from the speed of our progress might even come as a welcome relief to some of us.
I know, not think, that the DEA, FBI, AFP, Interpol, Europol, SOCA and every other LE agency of any size is trying to shut down the Silk Road and the darknet markets. They study every single post on this forum. Believe it.
They will not succeed. You can shut down severs, you can even murder people, but you cannot destroy the network. A network which is in fact much, much bigger than all those agencies put together. This is a wave of epic proportions, it is unstoppable. It unites two powerful elements. The power of the illegal drug markets, that resilience and stability of supply, has established an unlikely alliance with another tribe, the computer hackers. That is the real unreported news story about SR. When you get some of the smartest and most determined people on the planet and the money supplied by the drug markets, you have one helluva war on your hands. The State paid tens of millions to attack the Farmer's Market, a mere outpost with barely a million dollars in market transactions. They cannot be proud of that, they only nailed a handful of guys barely making a regular job's wages. Winning that battle wasn't a triumph, it was a disaster. Consider what that implies for a market the size of the Silk Road... The budgetary escalations will be too much to bear, they will be forced to adopt new procedures by establishing special new task forces, small units of technically competent LE officers, in fact they have done and are currently pretending to have given up, thrown their hands up to the air, so far. This is bullshit and it is obvious bullshit.
Consider that information has, until recently, been largely a weapon utilized by the State and the State alone against its various opponents. They are used to being an active informational adversary, using data to corral their targets and crush them. Divide & Conquer. They are not used to their own weapons being turned on them. They have been using them for so long, that in fact they don't genuinely comprehend the idea they might not be the only ones who can use them. They consider opponents who use their methods as outliers, or agents of other States, which is even appropriate given that we are setting up our own territory on the network. In our society today, what the Database says is the truth. When you can't rely on that, you got a problem.
They break into SR's servers. Fine. They can do that to dozens of black market servers. It doesn't really change anything about the network. Next year there will be an explosion of new services to replace lost ones. We employ the Swarming War Doctrine more so online than the real world currently does, that is our true paradigm edge. Once our customers have the right defenses (anonymity solutions + encryption), then for them it is merely a case of learning the correct URLs to type in or the adaption of a procedure, a mere inconvenience, only necessitating being in the right places known to discuss product. Unsophisticated customers will be busted. Sophisticated customers will never be busted.
It must be understood that if we return the favor by breaking into their servers they're utterly fucked. That just needs to happen *once* and they have had a digital Pearl Harbor. I am not suggesting that we actually wipe their data, because that would be an act of war. There is a critical difference between *having* tools and power and *using* them. I am saying that if we are physically under attack, if the State responds in a disproportionate manner, then we will have no real compulsion to hold back our hand. It would be us or them. This is where my philosophy parts ways with kmfkewm, he wasn't opposed to the idea of sending mailbombs, at least in theory. I, on the other hand, am completely against physical violence saving extreme circumstances. In a different, non violent sense however, my theory of war goes further than his ideas of offense in the case of mailbombing. I say, as long as the game is played by the rules and proportionately, then that is that. You takes a ticket and the risks associated with said ticket. It is proxy warfare all the way. But... if the game itself changes, and the government acts in a disproportionate manner, then we have nothing to lose, and they have everything to lose. A centralized state attacking decentralized targets? Works well when facing a conventional opponent. Not so much if not. You must understand, in such a scenario it is necessary to go all the way in order to survive. That doesn't just mean destroying the agencies pursuing us directly, it means zero tolerance for the entire government. I'm talking about a situation in which merely ordering from the Silk Road becomes punishable by life imprisonment or death, not because of the quantity or product you ordered, but merely as a deterrent, as an example to deter others because the State realizes it is entirely ineffective against the online trade of illicit product and turns from bully into killer. That is grounds for Revolution. That is the straw which breaks the camel's back, and leads to all out asymmetric warfare.
I am not certain the right people in LEOs grasp how dangerous it would be if an arms race spun out of control between our more impetuous comrades and any of their LE agents who've obtained "War Drug Religion". We require a balance of powers, because absolute positions will only lead to extremism.
We are about to enter the Cold War of the Drug War. That much is completely certain. The State will not win, and it will be a ridiculously expensive process with little to show for it. But this is still much better than having a hot war, Vietnam War style, which would drag us both into the gutter.
You have your part to play in what is to come. You should not be a bystander unless you believe you have no stake in your liberty. It doesn't matter if you don't know how to code, or even how to use PGP! There is a practically infinite number of useful things you can do to help the cryptoanarchists make a better, freer, more liberal world. You can act as a bitcoin merchant in Bitcoin over the counter markets. You can act as a spy within the enemy's territory. You can undermine their propaganda efforts. You can publicize the existence of the Silk Road and other darknet markets to all and sundry. You can act as a transhipper, or offer services and products on the darknet that are perfectly legal, but difficult to obtain anonymously.
In short, you all have a role to play in the next CryptoWar.
Proverb: Traveller, there are no roads. Roads are made by walking.
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Although i agree with your ideology pine, constructive advice concerning BTC purchases for the community as opposed to an agorist rant considering the future of cyber-cryptography & security would have been more useful.
glad to see your enjoying your modafinil.
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Although i agree with your ideology pine, constructive advice concerning BTC purchases for the community as opposed to an agorist rant considering the future of cyber-cryptography & security would have been more useful.
glad to see your enjoying your modafinil.
What a reason to downvote somebody! Where do you think you are? Reddit? I've already given my advice, extremely practical advice on this dozens of times!
localbitcoin, bitcoin-otc and tradebitcoin are just 3 of the services which offer the functions I describe.
In fact, they are not remarkably more expensive than the exchanges in my view, with far higher anonymity.
-- Procedures:
- Use Tor when communicating to an OTCV (over the counter vendor).
- Use many nyms, one per transaction.
- Use PGP if communicating directly.
- Agree on these beforehand so everything is transparent and there can be no misunderstandings.
-> Price
-> Quantity
Meet in public places during the day. e.g. cafe and don't bring your bitcoin wallet with the rest of your B$, only have wallet for the amount you're obtaining. Keep the money, the exact amount in a brochure or napkin.
For more security, don't bring your laptop or usual phone, but have a special (cheap) "bitcoin phone". Then your friend can text you when the bitcoins have been received, and your expensive gadget is in no danger of being smashed. I think you may be even able to get your wallet software to send you a message, but that's a feature for another day's work for some enterprising programmer.
When you think about it, there is nothing the LE agents can do if they crash the party. They have no record of the transaction electronically because of PGP and Tor. They just have two guys, one of which has a mobile and some cash, and another with the same. Shockingly damning stuff I know. They would have to make cash itself illegal to halt this.
Edit: The person who receives the bitcoins should leave first as a matter of etiquette.
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I can't help thinking that meeting a stranger to make an exchange is exposing yourself to similar risks of traditional drug purchases off the street.
I'd probably feel safer (but not safe) doing a wire to Poland from my own account then using a couple of fog like services.
Personally I don't think OTC is a viable long term solution to this problem, for many reasons. And this is a problem.
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I tried depositing into Blockchain using Pingit and it worked flawlessly, took about 2 minutes, I then sent the coins to SR through a mixer, it seems like a safe and easy way to do things
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I tried depositing into Blockchain using Pingit and it worked flawlessly, took about 2 minutes, I then sent the coins to SR through a mixer, it seems like a safe and easy way to do things
How long did it take for your coins to get to the road? :)
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It took about six hours, I think the delay was because I sent the coins through a mixer, but six hours is still faster than the four to five days when using Mt Gox
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It took about six hours, I think the delay was because I sent the coins through a mixer, but six hours is still faster than the four to five days when using Mt Gox
+1 thanks for getting back to me, i wonder how fast the quick send option is and whether it presents a risk seeing as i think addresses are anonymous.
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So to continue to use (for now at least) MtGox you have to pay £8 on top of everything else?
Not the end of the world but it will put a lot of people off I suspect.
Also your bank will charge you a fee , ive enquired about sending to their European account in poland and most banks charge about £10 for an international transfer plus the polish bank charge is 10 PLN about £2. Im sure as hell dont want to pay £12 every time i put coin on the road >:(
Hey Orinoko, me and a few mates chipped in our cash and I transferred £300 to Intersangos Polish Euro's a/c today via international transfer. I did it via internet banking and as you said got charged £10 fee by my UK bank. I had the GBP converted to Euro's before it was sent, so the bank skimmed a little extra on the foreign exchange (approx 10 euros). Anyway, I should have 366 euros hitting my Intersango a/c in a couple of days. I'm hoping there's no additional fees incurred at the Polish end (receiver fees?). Sounds like a small fee according to your research? I'll report back on the result.
At this stage this seems like a relatively easy and inexpensive way to do it, but makes sense to send a large amount of cash, so the £10 fee is a smaller percentage of the total. In this case that tenner is a 3.3% fee on my transaction. I can live with that. As you say though, if you were only trying to grab a few coins, this £10 fee would be a turn off.
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So to continue to use (for now at least) MtGox you have to pay £8 on top of everything else?
Not the end of the world but it will put a lot of people off I suspect.
Also your bank will charge you a fee , ive enquired about sending to their European account in poland and most banks charge about £10 for an international transfer plus the polish bank charge is 10 PLN about £2. Im sure as hell dont want to pay £12 every time i put coin on the road >:(
Hey Orinoko, me and a few mates chipped in our cash and I transferred £300 to Intersangos Polish Euro's a/c today via international transfer. I did it via internet banking and as you said got charged £10 fee by my UK bank. I had the GBP converted to Euro's before it was sent, so the bank skimmed a little extra on the foreign exchange (approx 10 euros). Anyway, I should have 366 euros hitting my Intersango a/c in a couple of days. I'm hoping there's no additional fees incurred at the Polish end (receiver fees?). Sounds like a small fee according to your research? I'll report back on the result.
At this stage this seems like a relatively easy and inexpensive way to do it, but makes sense to send a large amount of cash, so the £10 fee is a smaller percentage of the total. In this case that tenner is a 3.3% fee on my transaction. I can live with that. As you say though, if you were only trying to grab a few coins, this £10 fee would be a turn off.
Just to update you, the Polish bank charged me 2.41 EUR for receiving the funds. The Euro's hit my Intersango a/c within 3 hours. Amazingly fast! I've calculated that using this method I've paid about 6% more on my BTC. Not too bad, and we now have our coins!
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Hey parttimefiend, without divulging any personal info can you tell me the name of your bank/building society please? £10 is a lot more reasonable than what my current building society charges - £20. If you don't want to say it publicly, please pm me, thank you!
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Oh, and mine's Nationwide by the way.
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ive been wondering whats going on,done a transfer earlier and my money didnt go through thankfully it didnt get lost.does anyone know if/when mtgox will be sorting it out i enjoyed the fact that mtgox made it so easy to get btc,all that international sending seems like an effort.
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Why you guys from UK dont use localbitcoins?
Bitcoins for cash:
https://localbitcoins.com/country/GB
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^ Listen to that guy.
It is we can do a permanent suspension on MtGox. Abandoning the main exchanges, to whatever other alternatives, shall enhance our collective security and bring diversity to the marketplace. You should start getting more bossy, more choosy than OMG I hope they take my money! Lots of people want your money! You have options!
It is really a case of getting your accounts frozen and payments stalled now or later. Choose now, and you get to walk away with your capital intact. I don't even care if you choose exchanges, just diversify to more than one outside of the main players. Being several different jurisdictions, it matters, it makes paperwork and expense for LE to follow. Ideally, go to OTC altogether and leave the exchange system. Slightly more expensive, but much more anonymous than any exchange could ever be, esp. for larger amounts. OTC just means trading with somebody else selling bitcoins directly instead of finding a centralized exchange. It is impossible to regulate OTC in any way, even making it illegal would be irrelevant. If the OTC market is built up, you'll have lots of 'trusted exchangers', who have a whole business of being middlemen, like an exchange, only that there's about ten thousand of them instead of < 100 exchanges. It's not like this is the future or something, this is already happening all over, specialization is becoming apparent. Spreads will be larger, but this way you save on anonymizing with a bitcoin laundry mechanism (typically 1% - 3%), so it comes out to be about the same, with the added advantage of superior anonymity.
MtGox is representative of the exact system that we went to Bitcoin to get away from the petty restrictions!
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Why you guys from UK dont use localbitcoins?
Bitcoins for cash:
https://localbitcoins.com/country/GB
thanks for the tip - I'll look into it. Would be good to hear other more long term SR users also recommending this site. I like what Pine is saying about diversifying. Have 2 or 3 ways to obtain BTC. Don't become reliant on one method. That's what I'm currently doing...
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Hey parttimefiend, without divulging any personal info can you tell me the name of your bank/building society please? £10 is a lot more reasonable than what my current building society charges - £20. If you don't want to say it publicly, please pm me, thank you!
Lloyds TSB online banking is £10 (£20 over the phone), and I understand that HSBC charge a flat rate of £10 for either phone or internet banking.
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ive been wondering whats going on,done a transfer earlier and my money didnt go through thankfully it didnt get lost.does anyone know if/when mtgox will be sorting it out i enjoyed the fact that mtgox made it so easy to get btc,all that international sending seems like an effort.
Yeah Mt-Gox was quite easy (while it lasted). To be fair though the international transfer took 10 mins to set up on internet banking, and I had the funds within 3 hours. Yeah it cost a little extra, but I had the funds the same day. Mt-Gox GBP deposit was taking 2-3 business days before I had the funds.
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Pine you are starting to boarder on being patronizing.
Human beings like routine, as such MtGox has provided them with a safe means of buying virtually unlimited bitcoin as their convenience.
If I was dealing in large volumes of bitcoin the last thing I would want to do is meet a stranger in exchange for cash.
At least with the bigger exchanges you know the rules of the game and you can endeavor to create your own good, bad or indifferent system for laundering you money.
I agree that SR users should not rely purely on the monolith corporate institutions for their bitcoin but in the mean time give us a break in discussing the MtGox issue.
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^ Listen to that guy.
It is we can do a permanent suspension on MtGox. Abandoning the main exchanges, to whatever other alternatives, shall enhance our collective security and bring diversity to the marketplace. You should start getting more bossy, more choosy than OMG I hope they take my money! Lots of people want your money! You have options!
It is really a case of getting your accounts frozen and payments stalled now or later. Choose now, and you get to walk away with your capital intact. I don't even care if you choose exchanges, just diversify to more than one outside of the main players. Being several different jurisdictions, it matters, it makes paperwork and expense for LE to follow. Ideally, go to OTC altogether and leave the exchange system. Slightly more expensive, but much more anonymous than any exchange could ever be, esp. for larger amounts. OTC just means trading with somebody else selling bitcoins directly instead of finding a centralized exchange. It is impossible to regulate OTC in any way, even making it illegal would be irrelevant. If the OTC market is built up, you'll have lots of 'trusted exchangers', who have a whole business of being middlemen, like an exchange, only that there's about ten thousand of them instead of < 100 exchanges. It's not like this is the future or something, this is already happening all over, specialization is becoming apparent. Spreads will be larger, but this way you save on anonymizing with a bitcoin laundry mechanism (typically 1% - 3%), so it comes out to be about the same, with the added advantage of superior anonymity.
MtGox is representative of the exact system that we went to Bitcoin to get away from the petty restrictions!
Like what you're saying Pine. I'm planning for the future. I expect more hurdles along the way. Cheers, PTF
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ive been wondering whats going on,done a transfer earlier and my money didnt go through thankfully it didnt get lost.does anyone know if/when mtgox will be sorting it out i enjoyed the fact that mtgox made it so easy to get btc,all that international sending seems like an effort.
Yeah Mt-Gox was quite easy (while it lasted). To be fair though the international transfer took 10 mins to set up on internet banking, and I had the funds within 3 hours. Yeah it cost a little extra, but I had the funds the same day. Mt-Gox GBP deposit was taking 2-3 business days before I had the funds.
thats is pretty quick.im not a big spender on the road yet so i couldnt justify the extra costs although the way things are looking i might have too.hope they get it sorted.
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As much as I like the anonymity aspect of using local exchangers, the option just isn't feasible for me as currently my nearest exchanger is over 50 miles away, and they're charging pretty steep prices. More importantly they have ZERO feedback which is hardly reassuring. Also in general I wouldn't be comfortable trusting some complete stranger with large sums of cash, how would I know they're not just going to go spend it as soon as we part ways after I drive a hundred miles to hand them the cash? If there was a local exchanger with a lot of positive feedback indicating a good history, I might consider it. I don't like to pay up front for people who I don't trust.
EDIT: At the moment I've switched over to using the Pingit method for obtaining bitcoins, while not entirely anonymous it's not that different from when I used to transfer money to MtGox. It also works a lot faster, and only costs a little bit more. This will tide me over until hopefully MtGox and Intersango have a UK bank account deposit option again.
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Stupid question, but...
About localbitcoins - you need to send money in envelope, bank transfer, personally?
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the idea is you do it in person, having first set it up online and through the phone. Partimefiend recommended hsbc or lloyds for int transfer but i've found out that halifax do it for £9.50 a time, £7.50 for first three transactions (i don't have a smartphone) so that could be an option.
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Why you guys from UK dont use localbitcoins?
Bitcoins for cash:
https://localbitcoins.com/country/GB
thanks for the tip - I'll look into it. Would be good to hear other more long term SR users also recommending this site. I like what Pine is saying about diversifying. Have 2 or 3 ways to obtain BTC. Don't become reliant on one method. That's what I'm currently doing...
Exactly, think like a global investor. In fact everybody here should think like investors on a bunch of levels. Diversifying means of obtaining B$, if you're a vendor it's obtaining the highest ROI (return on investment) for the lowest risk, arbitraging regulations, geography to obtain the cheapest bitcoins for the most anonymity and the least expensive product.
Hey parttimefiend, without divulging any personal info can you tell me the name of your bank/building society please? £10 is a lot more reasonable than what my current building society charges - £20. If you don't want to say it publicly, please pm me, thank you!
Lloyds TSB online banking is £10 (£20 over the phone), and I understand that HSBC charge a flat rate of £10 for either phone or internet banking.
Scandal! Throw the moneychangers out of the temple! *whips*
Pine you are starting to border* on being pine*.
:)
Human beings like routine, as such MtGox has provided them with a safe means of buying virtually unlimited bitcoin as their convenience.
If I was dealing in large volumes of bitcoin the last thing I would want to do is meet a stranger in exchange for cash.
At least with the bigger exchanges you know the rules of the game and you can endeavor to create your own good, bad or indifferent system for laundering you money.
I agree that SR users should not rely purely on the monolith corporate institutions for their bitcoin but in the mean time give us a break in discussing the MtGox issue.
MtGox stops working and somewhere between 5/10 and 8/10 of yourselves have surely lost your main route to obtaining bitcoins. That's a bit of an emergency. I'm saying this stuff now so that I don't have to tell you "I told you so" in a couple of days/weeks/months. Because then you'll definitely be feeling super patronized and annoyed!
As much as I like the anonymity aspect of using local exchangers, the option just isn't feasible for me as currently my nearest exchanger is over 50 miles away, and they're charging pretty steep prices. More importantly they have ZERO feedback which is hardly reassuring. Also in general I wouldn't be comfortable trusting some complete stranger with large sums of cash, how would I know they're not just going to go spend it as soon as we part ways after I drive a hundred miles to hand them the cash? If there was a local exchanger with a lot of positive feedback indicating a good history, I might consider it. I don't like to pay up front for people who I don't trust.
EDIT: At the moment I've switched over to using the Pingit method for obtaining bitcoins, while not entirely anonymous it's not that different from when I used to transfer money to MtGox. It also works a lot faster, and only costs a little bit more. This will tide me over until hopefully MtGox and Intersango have a UK bank account deposit option again.
I agree! It sucks! So more people, not less, need to get involved in selling OTC.
It is possible to have a situation in which it would be very difficult to rob you. More importantly, if OTC grows, then the vast majority of people won't be physically meeting face to face, there will be probably be 'exchangers' who achieve that market function instead, and I think that would just happen initially, not as things went on. So you'll be using WOT systems where you pay somebody over the internet using paypal, online banking, sending people prepaid cards, whatever. All mediums of exchange can suit. Then that value will go into an independent Escrow system (one of many, with its own WOT) where there is a delay to prevent long cons. Then when the Escrow system has validated that bitcoins arrived in the appointed account/B$ address, then funds become released. It is possible to give an OTCE merchant bitcoins, that they cannot actually spend, one of the relatively as yet unknown features of bitcoin that will play a prominent role in securing our network, there is an entire flotilla of hidden features that make current thinking about the limits of bitcoins redundant.
The point is that anybody can become an OTC vendor or an OTC buyer or an OTC Escrow merchant, but that we use WOT to prevent scams. None of this is intended to be legal, none of this will be regulated save by the market itself, it'll be on the darknet alongside the other black markets. Don't imagine that we're saying that you are an OTC buyer and you go to an OTC Escrow and an OTC vendor. No! I'm saying we'll use the fund principal instead. So you are an OTC buyer than wants B$100.00 In this situation, we can have a system in which that is split into B$1 amounts (for example, it'll probably be really a mirrored random or something) and put into different OTC Escrow services and dozens of OTC vendors will compete to fill the orders.
This way, OTCV and OTCE don't even know how many buyers there are. They just know that the entire marketplace is requesting X bitcoins and some other non useful information to LE. There are literally millions of impoverished young people in developed countries, betrayed by State into funding a tax burden that is genuinely criminal, completely non-voluntary, it is the act of State Theft. We can offer those people a powerful means of obtaining decent consistent, stable income, to take back their dignity and independence with little risk while dealing a blow to the existing system. I think a lot of people are going to be up for that, don't you. We're using similar principals to insurance contracts here, and will be algorithmically trading to issue and distribute blocks of currency, blind mixing and other tricks as yet unknown but to a select few which will make traffic analysis a complete waste of time.
I don't have all the answers or solutions here, a lot more research has to be done, but I know that the exchanges as a one stop shop are an evolutionary dead end.
Unlike the past, constrained by the physical world, there is now no real limit on the sophistication to which our black market financial system can attain. This will be an area of ongoing innovation, for just about forever. It won't even be just bitcoins I'd imagine, but that's another day's work, let's continue with the tools that are available for now (I know Guru likes Chaumian cash, but we're not all there yet), it's too far ahead in the future to think about right now IMHO.
I am adamant about this, because the route of cooperating with the authorities is the wrong way to go, that will not end well for the bitcoin community, they will be hung for doing so, merely because they are freely available for attack. I wouldn't put it past the federal government to arrest every member of every exchange they can get their hands on and throw them in prison on trumped up charges. If you've been reading about digital cash's sordid history, you'll know this has already happened to several purveyors of digital currencies outside the government's remit.
My main concern right now isn't the exchanges actually, that's a problem that resolves itself, but the miners, because pooled mining is going to be the only viable production method and when the State makes Bitcoins illegal it will become tough to be a miner. Corporations like Butterfly Labs would be either closed or subverted by the enemy; so thoughts on making life difficult for those who would target miners would be appreciated. They are at, haha, the coal face of the entire discussion. Clearly decentralized production, but can the mining pool communicate over Tor or other darknets? I don't think most mining pools are currently working under the assumption they could be all arrested tomorrow morning.
You have to believe that when LE go into operation, they will try to organize in such a way that they take down an entire network at once. So Boy/Girl Scout advocacy "Be Prepared" is well founded in fact from the case studies of previous takedown attempts.
Australia, US, UK and other European countries are tied up together with their actions, so if you choose to mine bitcoin or buy from exchanges, you really want to be thinking about doing that with providers in developing markets, which are dramatically less likely to cooperate with developed ones, less likely to have the resources to police a 'developed problem' and quite happy to accept capital/industry, and have a 'English' problem when it comes to believing a bunch of computers hashing is an illegal activity.
It starts with the OTC, primitive as it is today, so support your OTC merchants if it is an acceptable level of price/risk for you. At least investigate the option, even if it is not acceptable a proposal for you today, you may find the terms more compelling tomorrow. The main thing right now is that people aren't thinking about OTC, and we've got to change that.
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I've just checked localbitcoins. It's brilliant! Simple: asking, escrow, bank transfer, release, done!
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So nabuchodonosor, you actually don't need to meet the person you are dealing with?
Could the transaction be done remotely if so this would be an ideal solution.
It would appear that Pine was right all along, I think that's your clue for "I told you so!"
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So nabuchodonosor, you actually don't need to meet the person you are dealing with?
Could the transaction be done remotely if so this would be an ideal solution.
It would appear that Pine was right all along, I think that's your clue for "I told you so!"
No, you don't have to. Just ask the seller. Some of them have an email address in a profile list, some of them not, but what you can do is to choose a seller, then buy some BTC, and of course put your BTC address, and then ask them in the message if they can provide such an option. If they say NO, you just cancel operation, with no consequences. My operation took me no more then 20 minutes. Of course some people will be afraid to provide a bank account details, but then they will provide other options like Ukash or Pingit.
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Just temporary for the UK transactions, surely this will be back to normal on mtgox in the next couple of weeks.
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Hi guys/gals
Yesterday morning I tried to make a transfer of £245 into mtgox online - the money literally bounced straight back into my account within a couple of minutes.
A couple of hours later I logged back onto my online bank account and I noticed that 'Tibanne' had actually taken the £245, without me actually doing anything or authorising it! Does this mean they're now accepting GBP or am I now in the same boat as some of you, my money is floating around with MTgox - waiting for them to sort their shit out.
Just seemed a bit strange how I got my money instantly back and then a few hours later they took it back without my authorisation?
Seems a bit odd - unless they're back up and running??
Cheers,
J.
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Interesting.... Have you emailed mt gox to enquire as to why this is?
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Hi guys/gals
Yesterday morning I tried to make a transfer of £245 into mtgox online - the money literally bounced straight back into my account within a couple of minutes.
A couple of hours later I logged back onto my online bank account and I noticed that 'Tibanne' had actually taken the £245, without me actually doing anything or authorising it! Does this mean they're now accepting GBP or am I now in the same boat as some of you, my money is floating around with MTgox - waiting for them to sort their shit out.
Just seemed a bit strange how I got my money instantly back and then a few hours later they took it back without my authorisation?
Seems a bit odd - unless they're back up and running??
Cheers,
J.
hey Japan buddy,
i had the same problem with intersango at the start of the month and as far as i can make out from contacting my own bank and intersango, the accounts in which we transfer are money too, wer not closed but just suspended therefore they still accepted are payments, but intersango/mtgox now has to wait on the sister accounts used, to send them paper statements which we will have are transfers on them which did not go into our online acc's ( this can take up to 6 months ) then intersango/mtgox will be able to input this manually...
a real fucking pain in the ass tbh, i have been in with my bank to see if they could reverse the transaction with no luck, intersango just tell me what i said in the above, and metro bank do not seem to be any help either, despite lodging numerous complaints and speaking to managers, i just hope u guys have better luck with mtgox..! bcos iv been trying to recover 100 quid since the start of the month....
it was somewhat my own fault as i should have checked the acc status before i issued my transfer, but still u would think with using reputable BTC sources and banks we would all be better protected against this sorta thing happening, bcos somewhere in the middle of this, some fat cat bank wanker is giving himself a fat bonus of the interest of all our floating funds...
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Side Note: Furthermore, the words "junky" or "addict" and "dealer" are their words, not ours. Stop using them. Some people do need to get off drugs like opiates because they have become wholly dependent on them, but they are NOT junk, which is what that word is implying. They are human beings too, not sorry excuses of humanity. Use "consumer" and "vendor" instead. Drugs are not a dozen or so euphemisms, they are generically described as "product" and should be described by their chemical or scientific names, not their street names. This also makes it easier to talk about them. This is a more important concept than many people realize, our vocabulary influences our rational decision making. This is why the language of business is different to normal language, it puts people in the correct frame of reference.
@Pine The term Junkie is believed to originate from the Junk boats that used to bring in the opium, as cited in William Burroughs book 'Junkie'.
Also, I agree that language can be very powerful and emotive, that's why I feel it important to take back that power and 'own' these words ourselves. Like how black people took back the N word, and how gays took back some of their derogatory words like queer. I myself have been called some of these names in my life so I truly believe the most powerful way to combat these stereotypes is to own these words and through my actions dispel these stereotypes. :)
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Hi guys/gals
Yesterday morning I tried to make a transfer of £245 into mtgox online - the money literally bounced straight back into my account within a couple of minutes.
A couple of hours later I logged back onto my online bank account and I noticed that 'Tibanne' had actually taken the £245, without me actually doing anything or authorising it! Does this mean they're now accepting GBP or am I now in the same boat as some of you, my money is floating around with MTgox - waiting for them to sort their shit out.
Just seemed a bit strange how I got my money instantly back and then a few hours later they took it back without my authorisation?
Seems a bit odd - unless they're back up and running??
Cheers,
J.
hey Japan buddy,
i had the same problem with intersango at the start of the month and as far as i can make out from contacting my own bank and intersango, the accounts in which we transfer are money too, wer not closed but just suspended therefore they still accepted are payments, but intersango/mtgox now has to wait on the sister accounts used, to send them paper statements which we will have are transfers on them which did not go into our online acc's ( this can take up to 6 months ) then intersango/mtgox will be able to input this manually...
a real fucking pain in the ass tbh, i have been in with my bank to see if they could reverse the transaction with no luck, intersango just tell me what i said in the above, and metro bank do not seem to be any help either, despite lodging numerous complaints and speaking to managers, i just hope u guys have better luck with mtgox..! bcos iv been trying to recover 100 quid since the start of the month....
it was somewhat my own fault as i should have checked the acc status before i issued my transfer, but still u would think with using reputable BTC sources and banks we would all be better protected against this sorta thing happening, bcos somewhere in the middle of this, some fat cat bank wanker is giving himself a fat bonus of the interest of all our floating funds...
Thanks for making this post, I am in the same boat with MtGox and they have left me completely in the dark. I just assumed the money is now lost and I'll never get it back because they stopped responding to my email after a while and they never really gave a clear answer as to whether I'd get it back. It's been over a week now since I sent them the money. It really sucks that it could take 6 months to get the money back, that's a fucking joke. I definitely won't ever use MtGox again if that winds up being the case, or worse yet if I never get it back. I'm especially pissed off because I sent the money BEFORE they announced they were stopping UK bank transfers. When I first contacted them they sent me a link to the press release where they announced it, but how the hell was I supposed to know in advance that was going to happen?
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@rowsdower I'm in the same boat as you but if you read their updates they have said they are waiting for their paper statements for september which were due to arrive yesterday. So it might take a week or so for everyone to get their money but I doubt very much it 6 months. @everyone the difference between mtgox and intersango within a couple of weeks of realising there was a problem mtgox suspended deposits where as intersango kept taking them for quite a while which meant alot more people got affected.
A new update yesterday from mtgox
[Outage #40496] Temporary suspension of all GBP Deposits via Barclays
Mt.Gox Support
posted this on Oct 01 11:18
It is with regret that we have to inform our British users that you will no longer be able to deposit British Pounds (GBP) to our Barclays bank account from now on as Barclays has closed our account as of September 24, 2012. While we have not yet been formerly contacted by Barclays or any of its representatives, we are as for today, unable to accept any GBP deposits into our Barclays account. Rest assure that we are doing our best to get to the bottom of this situation as well as being able to resolve this matter one way or another with Barclays or via other British and/ or European Banks.
Deposits that have been received on or after the 22nd of September are still waiting to be credited and will be processed as soon as we receive a bank statement regarding all of September's transactions from Barclays which is expected to arrive in mid-October.
On Behalf of the entire Mt.Gox team, please accept our apologizes for any inconvenience this temporary suspension of GBP deposits may have caused.
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Side Note: Furthermore, the words "junky" or "addict" and "dealer" are their words, not ours. Stop using them. Some people do need to get off drugs like opiates because they have become wholly dependent on them, but they are NOT junk, which is what that word is implying. They are human beings too, not sorry excuses of humanity. Use "consumer" and "vendor" instead. Drugs are not a dozen or so euphemisms, they are generically described as "product" and should be described by their chemical or scientific names, not their street names. This also makes it easier to talk about them. This is a more important concept than many people realize, our vocabulary influences our rational decision making. This is why the language of business is different to normal language, it puts people in the correct frame of reference.
@Pine The term Junkie is believed to originate from the Junk boats that used to bring in the opium, as cited in William Burroughs book 'Junkie'.
Also, I agree that language can be very powerful and emotive, that's why I feel it important to take back that power and 'own' these words ourselves. Like how black people took back the N word, and how gays took back some of their derogatory words like queer. I myself have been called some of these names in my life so I truly believe the most powerful way to combat these stereotypes is to own these words and through my actions dispel these stereotypes. :)
Agreed.
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Okay, I'm trying the localbitcoins method and right now awaiting a response from the seller as I asked if he would be able to do a bank transfer. The Barclays Pingit app is a no go for myself as I live on an island in the UK and I'm not paying to travel just to verify my details for a silly app. I can't deposit funds into Intersango's Polish account because the account number field on my internet banking (Halifax) won't accept their account number because it's too long. I see localbitcoins as being the only method for myself, and if it is to any avail I'll make this my main method because it's the safest way of exchanging GBP for bitcoins.
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Very odd - not that I'm complaining. MTgox just refunded my funds they took, just what I needed as It was over a few hundred quid.
So happy, but confused!!
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Okay, I'm trying the localbitcoins method and right now awaiting a response from the seller as I asked if he would be able to do a bank transfer. The Barclays Pingit app is a no go for myself as I live on an island in the UK and I'm not paying to travel just to verify my details for a silly app. I can't deposit funds into Intersango's Polish account because the account number field on my internet banking (Halifax) won't accept their account number because it's too long. I see localbitcoins as being the only method for myself, and if it is to any avail I'll make this my main method because it's the safest way of exchanging GBP for bitcoins.
Using OTC is much better than going through the exchanges, it biases the odds of record keeping screwing you enormously. Instead of infiltrating or subpoenaing exchanges, central nodes of failure, they now have to deal with a decentralized exchange system, which is seriously bad news bears for LE agents, they can no longer look at the network and say: these transactions come from exchange X, let's monitor this user because we believe those bitcoins consistently wind up at SR. They can come up with nice rules saying: it is illegal to transact unless you're a exchange that does AML procedures, but we have this really effective strategy to deal with that (the lalalalalalalalalala protocol). There is no way to enforce a rule like that with decentralized exchange.
I will say though, don't treat it as a sacred cow, I mean there's a *lot* of work to be done in these markets, they're barely a year old, a few months in most cases, there are lots of ways to get scammed so you have to keep your wits about you. Although you've improved your anonymity physically because your identity is unlikely to be associated with a bitcoin purchase, it would still be better to be using cash, ukash instead of using your bank account directly. We need:
Perfectly anonymous OTCV systems.
Lots of reliable WoT OTCE systems.
Then buyers will find it trivial to obtain bitcoins with dozens, hundreds of different payment methods. Better yet, it should be possible for OTCE to come up with lots of arbitrage possiblities but that's a tale for another day.
Vendor note: be careful using these method to dispose of bitcoins! It would, with the way these things are done on most OTC sites today, be quite easy to establish traffic analysis to look for areas in which lots of bitcoins are coming from.
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Thanks for replying Pine, I've generally been trying to keep up-to-date with your posts on this current situation. I'm going to give the OTC methods a serious try, get to grips with the market and see what I can do. If all goes well then I'll be sure to educate others on how simple it may be.
I'm not sure why we weren't using OTC markets in the first place, the method is simple. I'm extremely grateful for your insight into these type of things.
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Thanks for replying Pine, I've generally been trying to keep up-to-date with your posts on this current situation. I'm going to give the OTC methods a serious try, get to grips with the market and see what I can do. If all goes well then I'll be sure to educate others on how simple it may be.
I'm not sure why we weren't using OTC markets in the first place, the method is simple. I'm extremely grateful for your insight into these type of things.
No problem! :) I look forward to seeing an OTC tutorial from you if you get the opportunity to make one.
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Very odd - not that I'm complying. MTgox just refunded my funds they took, just what I needed as It was over a few hundred quid.
So happy, but confused!!
Their account has been closed, no where for the money to go so it comes straight back to you ;D
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I've just checked localbitcoins. It's brilliant! Simple: asking, escrow, bank transfer, release, done!
@nabuchodonosor Am I missing something? using this method how is there a guarantee you'll receive your bitcoins once you've transferred you're money into their bank account?
Sorry still trying to wrap my head round all this :)
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localbitcoins has a feedback system similar to SR. Just be careful when you're selecting someone to buy from, I imagine the site will be full of scammers but there are some reputable sellers.
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Side Note: Furthermore, the words "junky" or "addict" and "dealer" are their words, not ours. Stop using them. Some people do need to get off drugs like opiates because they have become wholly dependent on them, but they are NOT junk, which is what that word is implying. They are human beings too, not sorry excuses of humanity. Use "consumer" and "vendor" instead. Drugs are not a dozen or so euphemisms, they are generically described as "product" and should be described by their chemical or scientific names, not their street names. This also makes it easier to talk about them. This is a more important concept than many people realize, our vocabulary influences our rational decision making. This is why the language of business is different to normal language, it puts people in the correct frame of reference.
@Pine The term Junkie is believed to originate from the Junk boats that used to bring in the opium, as cited in William Burroughs book 'Junkie'.
Also, I agree that language can be very powerful and emotive, that's why I feel it important to take back that power and 'own' these words ourselves. Like how black people took back the N word, and how gays took back some of their derogatory words like queer. I myself have been called some of these names in my life so I truly believe the most powerful way to combat these stereotypes is to own these words and through my actions dispel these stereotypes. :)
I haven't read the Burroughs book, but historically that makes sense. I love those old junk boats in SE Asia. I think the term junkie also became part of our vocabulary after heroin and possibly cocaine addicts in the early 1900's used to collect scrap metal 'junk' to sell to scrap yards to help fund their habit. This practice of collecting scrap metal, and recyclable materials (which earn a small refund when returned) goes on today in many cities. My favourite character from 'The Wire', Bubbles, was often out collecting, or robbing metal to trade in for cash. Where I live, people that use 'hard' drugs (like myself) don't refer to themselves as junkies, if they have their shit together (i.e. have a job, not in debt, etc). That term tends to be reserved as a derogatory term for drug addicts who don't have jobs or possibly steal to fund their habit. Still not the nicest name to call someone. Somewhat prejudice if you don't know the persons whole story. I'll look up that book, I'd like to read some Burroughs.... laters, PTF :)
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I've just checked localbitcoins. It's brilliant! Simple: asking, escrow, bank transfer, release, done!
@nabuchodonosor Am I missing something? using this method how is there a guarantee you'll receive your bitcoins once you've transferred you're money into their bank account?
Sorry still trying to wrap my head round all this :)
Simple escrow system. He sends BTC to the localbitcoins. You then see that all funds are there, then you send your £ to his bank account, and then he releases the BTC to your address. Exactly the same as on SR. Risk is everywhere. Then rating system, and end of story.
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Just check ratings every time. Pick up my private message.
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Cheers guys I get it now ;)
Localbitcoins is actually pretty simple once you get stuck in!
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Might have to check out this local bitcoins. I have a feeling ping-it willl be stopped soon .. :(