Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Winters86 on August 26, 2012, 01:11 am
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Hello all,
I come from a family of LEO's, Not just uniformed officers, but upper echelon personnel in multiple agencies both state and federal. I can't be more specific than that unfortunately. Recently, I gained access to an internal confidential report distributed to several Australia LE agencies and a few international anti-narcotic bodies regarding possible methods of combating illegal activities involving BC. Of course SR was a main feature of said report.
I was told not to share any of the information, however I feel this report should be made available to the SR community because it contained methods through which LEO intend to begin to infiltrate and if possible start serious interdiction of the quote 'blatant and continually growing narcotic trade SR supports'. Now I can't post the report openly for everyone, because It could lead to serious consequences for myself and members of my family, I will however share the relevant points made and share an altered version of the report with a few members of the community whom I have already discussed this with and who have agreed to help get the information out there, because I know this one post won't be enough.
So here are the nuts and bolts of the report, spread the information as far and wide as possible friends:
1.PGP is terrifying them, every new user who learns it and helps others learn, closes a possible loophole they where planning to exploit.
2. User ignorance of the technology being used (Tor, PGP etc) is the their single best hope for any kind of serious action against the SR community.
3. Narcotic trade historically involves exploitation and violence. Users working together as a community for a greater good and towards the same goals has made all previous interdiction training basically obsolete. In other words, every user who helps newcomers learn how to be safe and secure especially through the use of PGP for all transactions and communication is a nail in LEO's coffin.
4. A total lack of violence and exploitation is very much working in our favor. So in other words, the idea of a community working together to protect the new and vulnerable has been identified as a huge obstacle for any kind of serious attempt to stop SR.
5. Their morale regarding fighting SR and BC is very low at the moment, mainly because very few LEO have the capacity to comprehend how the whole system works, but unfortunately, recent media coverage demands some kind of action, so they are going to have to show the public they are doing SOMETHING to combat SR, they just aren't sure what yet.
So there you have it my friends, Think of it like we are involved in an Insurrection and they are trying to pacify our homeland. History dictates that a determined and unified local populace will always defeat an invading enemy, regardless of strength through slowly sapping that enemies very will to continue the fight. We have the upper hand, there are just a few things we need to do to win the war and if you have read this post, you will see what those things are.
Go forth and educate yourself and anyone who needs it. Lean PGP, use it, teach others, encourage the spirit of community and helping others and victory shall be ours.
Be safe and smart friends.
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This is interesting, thanks for posting it.
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Good read, thanks for posting.
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+1 Good to see some insight from the inner workings of LE. They posted the FBI intel report as well which pretty much says that the Bitcoin is strong and scary because they don't know exactly how to trace it and when you was the coins it becomes almost impossible. There are rumors that the NSA has a computer that is capable of cracking PGP but it's just a rumor and I honestly doubt they would waste it on us.
The best thing noobies to SR can do is just read, read, and read some more. That's what I did when I joined a year ago, I went through almost every thread! Granted it was mumbo jumbo at first but through trial and error you get the hang of it ;)
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Great information. Thanks very much for posting. Everybody learn and use PGP!
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+1 Interesting... Be prepared.
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+1 Good to see some insight from the inner workings of LE. They posted the FBI intel report as well which pretty much says that the Bitcoin is strong and scary because they don't know exactly how to trace it and when you was the coins it becomes almost impossible. There are rumors that the NSA has a computer that is capable of cracking PGP but it's just a rumor and I honestly doubt they would waste it on us.
That rumour has been going around for a long time and it really doesn't help anyone. There are a number of reasons to suggest that they can't achieve a brute force cracking (there are other methods, like side channel attacks) or have yet found any flaws in either RSA and Elgamal.
For more information read this (clearnet) link:
http://sixdemonbag.org/cryptofaq.xhtml#agencies
Pay special attention to the bit on thermodynamics.
The best thing noobies to SR can do is just read, read, and read some more. That's what I did when I joined a year ago, I went through almost every thread! Granted it was mumbo jumbo at first but through trial and error you get the hang of it ;)
Yep, I agree completely.
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+1. Thanks. Valuable insights.
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Glad to see so many people have read this :), I have been made aware that a new, more detailed report on BC/SR is due to be distributed among Australian LE sometime soon, I will strive to post as much information about it as possible if I get the opportunity to read it, In the mean time, I am going to attempt to digitize and distribute the first report to a few members of the community who have kindly offered their assistance in spreading the information, Until then, be safe everyone and keep and eye on the forums. I will continue to post relevant counter-Intel as I get it, thankfully the LEO's in my family are concerned with combating real crimes on the darknet, mainly CEM (Child Exploitation Material) They actually believe that drugs should be legalized and have no problem with SR (especially now the armory is closed, that was a smart move.), This is why they share information about BC/SR with me freely. If only more LEO had the same mindset...
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Much appreciated.
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Glad to see so many people have read this :), I have been made aware that a new, more detailed report on BC/SR is due to be distributed among Australian LE sometime soon, I will strive to post as much information about it as possible if I get the opportunity to read it, In the mean time, I am going to attempt to digitize and distribute the first report to a few members of the community who have kindly offered their assistance in spreading the information, Until then, be safe everyone and keep and eye on the forums. I will continue to post relevant counter-Intel as I get it, thankfully the LEO's in my family are concerned with combating real crimes on the darknet, mainly CEM (Child Exploitation Material) They actually believe that drugs should be legalized and have no problem with SR (especially now the armory is closed, that was a smart move.), This is why they share information about BC/SR with me freely. If only more LEO had the same mindset...
Winters you are awesome! Thank You!
+1
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Thanks Winters, any updated info?
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1.PGP is terrifying them, every new user who learns it and helps others learn, closes a possible loophole they where planning to exploit.
Can you expand any more on this "loophole" without compromising yourself?
Thanks for the read.
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Very interesting post, thanks for sharing. Always interested in hearing more.
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About time we got someone on the "inside" , jokes! thanks for sharing your information with us Julian.
The armory isn't closed though is it?
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Hummmm..... you know... I've been doing some reading and it seems more possible that LE will fight to shut down BC's, not SR and try to cut off the flow of money...
I think the main focus LE has is the idea that money laundering and funding terrorism will grow out of control and that they will have no real way of tracing anything. There much more interested in the mafia or the cartels using btc to move money and create wars in the street and terrorists to use it to fund training and attacks then the little guys moving some drugs... ALTHOUGH...I would NEVER EVER EVER sell anything hard on any site anywhere on the darknet or clearnet myself. (no hate for those who do)
LE has issues with Coke, H, MDMA, Prescriptions, LSD pretty much all hard drugs.. to be honest I'd love if this site split up to and opened a new site just for green.. LE has too much on there plate to go after some green.. but kids being able to buy H online ship it to there "older friends apt" and smoke it like they see in a movie.. well now tha'st pushing it a bit too far... God forbid that kid OD's and dies...
I'd rather be part of a 420 only community then one rapped up with all the hard drugs, plus I'ma big hippie at heart!
All in all.. only time will tell what will happen here... but its laying the ground work for big changes to come and that can only be a good thing!
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So far I haven't bothered to use PGP; don't really see the point.
I've been thinking of starting up a BTC exchange here in Aus.
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+1... would ready again!! A++
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So far I haven't bothered to use PGP; don't really see the point.
I've been thinking of starting up a BTC exchange here in Aus.
Why haven't you bothered to use PGP?
It is quite important especially when dealing with sensitive information such as addresses. When asking vague questions etc to sellers it is safe to use clear text however when you place the order and submit your address please use PGP or some other form of encryption.
It's for your own safety...
Matrix 8)
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interesting... PGP ftw
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So in short, Australian Authorities = Fucked.
I'd say that's match point to you SR Kangaroo humper! :)
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Matrix: According to SR the mailing information is never stored on their servers. And TOR is encrypted. So as long as TOR and SR are trustworthy, I have nothing to worry about. If SR were untrustworthy it's more likely they'd just steal all our money.
There have been a couple times where I've messaged a vendor my address in plain text due to re-shipping, and then instructed them to delete the message immediately. Presumably SR does not store messages like that if the users delete them?
I've gotten a couple "cheap" orders of LSD which have left me grinding my teeth like mad for several hours. So I might have to give your Australian made tabs a go!
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Matrix: According to SR the mailing information is never stored on their servers. And TOR is encrypted. So as long as TOR and SR are trustworthy, I have nothing to worry about. If SR were untrustworthy it's more likely they'd just steal all our money.
There have been a couple times where I've messaged a vendor my address in plain text due to re-shipping, and then instructed them to delete the message immediately. Presumably SR does not store messages like that if the users delete them?
I've gotten a couple "cheap" orders of LSD which have left me grinding my teeth like mad for several hours. So I might have to give your Australian made tabs a go!
Never buy cheap LSD my friend!
Please sample our wares and you will truly "Enter The Matrix"
Matrix 8)
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About time we got someone on the "inside" , jokes! thanks for sharing your information with us Julian.
The armory isn't closed though is it?
Yes, it was closed around a month ago.
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Hummmm..... you know... I've been doing some reading and it seems more possible that LE will fight to shut down BC's, not SR and try to cut off the flow of money...
Yep. I've been arguing this for some time now. I would even go so far as to say that some of the BTC thefts may have been designed so as to shut-down the smaller exchanges, likely the ones with lax (or non-existent) AML controls. The idea would be to force everyone though controlled and/or LEA-friendly channels (like Mt. Gox).
Even if we all end up being forced to use tracked exchanges, like Mt. Gox, using mixers and tumblers can make tying a specific suspect transaction or BTC address to a particular person is difficult.
Take the address in my signature, for example, it's received something like 3 payments. Of those 2 went to other people/entities and the larger one went through a mixer to its final destination.
I think it's more the idea that they're trying to shut down an experiment. If the authorities are unable to shut down SR, or control alternative means of exchange (like BTCs) then they're afraid that this meme will spread. I suspect they liken it to an early-stage cancer -- better to nuke/excise it when it's only a few cells... they don't want to wait until it spreads.
I think you're probably right there.
As for the concern about Bitcoin being used for money laundering or funding terrorism, the entire market cap of the Bitcoin economy (of which 80-90% is probably "legitimate" trading, mainly currency trading) isn't large enough to be a major concern (yet).
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Am I the only one who is skeptical of these claims? That first post sounds too much like it's trying to stroke our egos: work together as a community, teach other, and we win. It is also specifically stroking the egos of the many PGP enthusiasts on this forum.
At the risk of listening to one whose ego is being stroked, let me say this.... I lived through the crypto wars -- take it from me -- the police were literally apoplectic at the prospect of unescrowed encryption, i.e. PGP.
The heads of the various police agencies were literally going around screaming, "The sky is falling!" to anyone who would listen.
Yes, they were. Key escrow was a particularly nasty idea, but was doomed to failure because it depended on people willingly handing over a copy of their secret keys to law enforcement or registering their use of PGP.
Check out Stephen Levy's book: Crypto: How the Code Rebels Beat the Government, Saving Privacy in the Digital Age -- it's a good history of those times.
Another good one for some background, but with less detail is The Code Book by Simon Singh.
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Matrix: According to SR the mailing information is never stored on their servers. And TOR is encrypted. So as long as TOR and SR are trustworthy, I have nothing to worry about. If SR were untrustworthy it's more likely they'd just steal all our money.
That's not what it says. It says that address data is encrypted and only decrypted for the vendor, but since the vendor only needs to log into their account to see this then it must be able to be decrypted by the SR staff.
There have been a couple times where I've messaged a vendor my address in plain text due to re-shipping, and then instructed them to delete the message immediately. Presumably SR does not store messages like that if the users delete them?
Very dangerous, there's no encryption on the SR side for the PMs and even if there was it would be the same as for the order system.
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Matrix: According to SR the mailing information is never stored on their servers. And TOR is encrypted. So as long as TOR and SR are trustworthy, I have nothing to worry about. If SR were untrustworthy it's more likely they'd just steal all our money.
There have been a couple times where I've messaged a vendor my address in plain text due to re-shipping, and then instructed them to delete the message immediately. Presumably SR does not store messages like that if the users delete them?
I've gotten a couple "cheap" orders of LSD which have left me grinding my teeth like mad for several hours. So I might have to give your Australian made tabs a go!
I take it you aren't aware of what the expression "passive adversary" implies?
SR's actual servers could be anywhere in the world. There would be no point in taking them down unless you obtain the right kind of information about the people connecting to it.
As such, it makes more sense to sit on top of it like a spider in the middle of a web, aggregating information over time in order to build up a blow-out bust.
Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you, because this is not an argument. JFUP.
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So far I haven't bothered to use PGP; don't really see the point.
I've been thinking of starting up a BTC exchange here in Aus.
If you do manage to setup up a BTC exchange, PLEASE let us know which one it is, so we can avoid like the plague.
Guru
good idea...
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Nice news to hear, however Australia is not at all who we need to worry about.
I mean seriously, try saying the phrase "Australian Authority" without bursting out in laughter. I certainly can't.
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I'm sorry guys, but when i read that message, from a person with 8 posts, my first thought was, what's a new person's interest in helping the community?
I'm over here looking at this with a skeptics glasses and i can't help but think that this is an attempt at lulling us into complacency. I suppose it didn't help that immediately prior to reading this i read an article by kmfkewm on threat assessment urging people to stay ever vigilant in the fight against complacency.
Anywho, please don't flame me for my opinion, just figure it ought to get thrown in with the rest.
Peace, Love, and STAY SAFE! ;)
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Nice news to hear, however Australia is not at all who we need to worry about.
I mean seriously, try saying the phrase "Australian Authority" without bursting out in laughter. I certainly can't.
Australia has some of the best customs in the world and also some of the most experience fighting internet crime, they also have a close relationship with the FBI and Interpol.
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Matrix: According to SR the mailing information is never stored on their servers. And TOR is encrypted. So as long as TOR and SR are trustworthy, I have nothing to worry about. If SR were untrustworthy it's more likely they'd just steal all our money.
There have been a couple times where I've messaged a vendor my address in plain text due to re-shipping, and then instructed them to delete the message immediately. Presumably SR does not store messages like that if the users delete them?
I've gotten a couple "cheap" orders of LSD which have left me grinding my teeth like mad for several hours. So I might have to give your Australian made tabs a go!
I take it you aren't aware of what the expression "passive adversary" implies?
SR's actual servers could be anywhere in the world. There would be no point in taking them down unless you obtain the right kind of information about the people connecting to it.
As such, it makes more sense to sit on top of it like a spider in the middle of a web, aggregating information over time in order to build up a blow-out bust.
Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you, because this is not an argument. JFUP.
THIS.
Why would the feds take SR down immediately after deanonymizing it? Then everyone of the vendors using it would get away and they would blow that they can trace hidden services. It would be far more likely that they would sit on top of it waiting for vendors to use their entry nodes and then deanonymize them with a timing correlation attack. maybe after gathering intelligence on vendors in this way for half a year, not to mention all the unencrypted addresses passing through the server, then they would take the server down immediately before doing an Interpol coordinated operation.
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Nice news to hear, however Australia is not at all who we need to worry about.
I mean seriously, try saying the phrase "Australian Authority" without bursting out in laughter. I certainly can't.
Australia has some of the best customs in the world and also some of the most experience fighting internet crime, they also have a close relationship with the FBI and Interpol.
KMF please dont add fuel to the Australian Customs is so great Fire, please?
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Nice news to hear, however Australia is not at all who we need to worry about.
I mean seriously, try saying the phrase "Australian Authority" without bursting out in laughter. I certainly can't.
Australia has some of the best customs in the world and also some of the most experience fighting internet crime, they also have a close relationship with the FBI and Interpol.
KMF please dont add fuel to the Australian Customs is so great Fire, please?
It is a fire? It is simply the truth. Their customs does not fuck around. If you don't want to hear the truth I suggest that you plug your ears and hum.
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actually I agree that 12-18 is far more likely than 6
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Matrix: According to SR the mailing information is never stored on their servers. And TOR is encrypted. So as long as TOR and SR are trustworthy, I have nothing to worry about. If SR were untrustworthy it's more likely they'd just steal all our money.
There have been a couple times where I've messaged a vendor my address in plain text due to re-shipping, and then instructed them to delete the message immediately. Presumably SR does not store messages like that if the users delete them?
I've gotten a couple "cheap" orders of LSD which have left me grinding my teeth like mad for several hours. So I might have to give your Australian made tabs a go!
I take it you aren't aware of what the expression "passive adversary" implies?
SR's actual servers could be anywhere in the world. There would be no point in taking them down unless you obtain the right kind of information about the people connecting to it.
As such, it makes more sense to sit on top of it like a spider in the middle of a web, aggregating information over time in order to build up a blow-out bust.
Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you, because this is not an argument. JFUP.
THIS.
Why would the feds take SR down immediately after deanonymizing it? Then everyone of the vendors using it would get away and they would blow that they can trace hidden services. It would be far more likely that they would sit on top of it waiting for vendors to use their entry nodes and then deanonymize them with a timing correlation attack. maybe after gathering intelligence on vendors in this way for half a year, not to mention all the unencrypted addresses passing through the server, then they would take the server down immediately before doing an Interpol coordinated operation.
Exactly. We've seen this pattern when they bust pedo rings. They identify the maximum number of participants, after which coordinated raids are carried out, often in half a dozen different countries simultaneously. I think the figure of 6 months for vendor surveillance is a bit on the short side -- I would expect somewhere between 10-15 months, possibly even as long as 18.
Guru
Most Vendors here dont seem to last 6 months.
And there are no great superpowers aus customs has that other countries don't, all this rumor does is open the doors for Australians to be Selectively Scammed. Take this from an Aussie who has never had any problems.
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Matrix: According to SR the mailing information is never stored on their servers. And TOR is encrypted. So as long as TOR and SR are trustworthy, I have nothing to worry about. If SR were untrustworthy it's more likely they'd just steal all our money.
There have been a couple times where I've messaged a vendor my address in plain text due to re-shipping, and then instructed them to delete the message immediately. Presumably SR does not store messages like that if the users delete them?
I've gotten a couple "cheap" orders of LSD which have left me grinding my teeth like mad for several hours. So I might have to give your Australian made tabs a go!
I take it you aren't aware of what the expression "passive adversary" implies?
SR's actual servers could be anywhere in the world. There would be no point in taking them down unless you obtain the right kind of information about the people connecting to it.
As such, it makes more sense to sit on top of it like a spider in the middle of a web, aggregating information over time in order to build up a blow-out bust.
Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you, because this is not an argument. JFUP.
THIS.
Why would the feds take SR down immediately after deanonymizing it? Then everyone of the vendors using it would get away and they would blow that they can trace hidden services. It would be far more likely that they would sit on top of it waiting for vendors to use their entry nodes and then deanonymize them with a timing correlation attack. maybe after gathering intelligence on vendors in this way for half a year, not to mention all the unencrypted addresses passing through the server, then they would take the server down immediately before doing an Interpol coordinated operation.
Exactly. We've seen this pattern when they bust pedo rings. They identify the maximum number of participants, after which coordinated raids are carried out, often in half a dozen different countries simultaneously. I think the figure of 6 months for vendor surveillance is a bit on the short side -- I would expect somewhere between 10-15 months, possibly even as long as 18.
Guru
Most Vendors here dont seem to last 6 months.
And there are no great superpowers aus customs has that other countries don't, all this rumor does is open the doors for Australians to be Selectively Scammed. Take this from an Aussie who has never had any problems.
Australia has some of the best customs in the world, take it from somebody who has been around long enough to see how long people in Australia last before they get a package intercepted versus anywhere else in the world. Australian customs check almost 100% of incoming mail the only way people manage to consistently get things through is if they fit in a letter sized envelope. Even a DVD case of drugs is going to be a challenge. What is the biggest shipment that you have ever gotten through? I don't care if you answer, but my bet is that it was light flat and fit in an envelope.
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As compared to USA where people import boxes full of kilos of powdered drugs
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www.glidepathgroup.com/assets/files/Australia_Post_Parcel_Case_Study_0907.pdf?phpMyAdmin=1bS1SNVH3ltijkhNQPMUxDVd3y1
Background
In May 2001 the Australian Government committed to 100% screening
of incoming international mail for quarantine (AQIS) and customs
(ACS) purposes by X-Ray, physical examination and canine inspection
prior to its release to the domestic postal distribution network.
Australia Post (AP) required new materials handling (MH) facilities at
both Sydney and Melbourne to be able to provide these screening
services in an efficient and sustainable manner. In 2004 Glidepath
successfully won the contract to supply the conveyor-based materials
handling systems at both locations.
I can find more if you like. 100% of incoming international mail to Australia is inspected by customs, the only way people manage to get anything of significant weight (ie: not flat, light, fits in an envelope) through is by luck. If you can find someone who has consistently gotten such packs through customs, maybe I will accept that you are correct. As it stands, I can find multiple references to 100% of incoming mail to Australia being screened. I have read one report that claimed 100% of non-letter mail is screened, and that is how people manage to get letters through, it is still screened but not 100%.
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Also sea cargo != international mail , they are probably talking about big shipping services transporting barrels of shit and similar things , not the postal service
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Im not going to give you specific amounts but yes a lot more then you are saying KMF and through regular post and on a regular basis. I know your going to say im just saying this for "whatever reason" but i have no reason to lie. What you have said is simple scare mongering propaganda from Australian Authorities.
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Im not going to give you specific amounts but yes a lot more then you are saying KMF and through regular post and on a regular basis. I know your going to say im just saying this for "whatever reason" but i have no reason to lie. What you have said is simple scare mongering propaganda from Australian Authorities.
Well I can not give you more proof of how much incoming international mail is screened in Australia than documents from Australian customs, the contractors they have hired to be able to screen the amount of mail they claim to, quotes from Australian customs officials, and my own personal conversations and interactions with Australians (who in my experience tend to have far more interceptions than people in other countries). Maybe you have managed to get more than an envelope through, I have no idea and I don't really give a shit, consider yourself lucky. All I know is if I spend the time to hunt down articles and .pdfs that I can give a dozen citations of claims of Australia inspecting 100% of incoming international mail (and one report that said 100% of international mail other than letters). I am not sure if I feel like digging up all of these old things I have read though, as I already gave a link to one .pdf as a citation and that is more than anyone has been able to show to the contrary other than anecdotal evidence from you.
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Im not going to give you specific amounts but yes a lot more then you are saying KMF and through regular post and on a regular basis. I know your going to say im just saying this for "whatever reason" but i have no reason to lie. What you have said is simple scare mongering propaganda from Australian Authorities.
Well I can not give you more proof of how much incoming international mail is screened in Australia than documents from Australian customs, the contractors they have hired to be able to screen the amount of mail they claim to, quotes from Australian customs officials, and my own personal conversations and interactions with Australians (who in my experience tend to have far more interceptions than people in other countries). Maybe you have managed to get more than an envelope through, I have no idea and I don't really give a shit, consider yourself lucky. All I know is if I spend the time to hunt down articles and .pdfs that I can give a dozen citations of claims of Australia inspecting 100% of incoming international mail (and one report that said 100% of international mail other than letters). I am not sure if I feel like digging up all of these old things I have read though, as I already gave a link to one .pdf as a citation and that is more than anyone has been able to show to the contrary other than anecdotal evidence from you.
Like i said i wasnt expecting you to believe me but there is plenty getting through and not much proof to the contray that anything not arriving is anything more then propaganda and selective scamming
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Im not going to give you specific amounts but yes a lot more then you are saying KMF and through regular post and on a regular basis. I know your going to say im just saying this for "whatever reason" but i have no reason to lie. What you have said is simple scare mongering propaganda from Australian Authorities.
I don't order from overseas regularly by any means but I can say from the few things I have ordered my success has been about 80%+
I quite like the fear mongering to be honest, we should by no means encourage people to order internationally because the vast majority of people don't understand the legislation and consequences that come with getting caught. Assuming you don't do this 100% right things can go very wrong and have very real consequences.
good point moksha and when did you become mod?
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www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=jcpaa/aqis/submissions/sub3.pdf
Unfortunately this PDF has some voodoo associated with it making it impossible to copy paste from it, it only pastes scrambled text. However it outlines the entire screening procedure of international mail in Australia, and confirms that since 2002 100% of incoming international mail was subject to at a minimum one of the following screening techniques, however they could not maintain 100% and had to update their infrastructure in order to do so:
*Canine sniffing for narcotics detection
*Human inspection
*X-ray scanning
*Possible opening
*Canine sniffing for the presence of vegetables etc
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Is it really fear mongering to post claims that can be backed up by multiple sources?
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www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=jcpaa/aqis/submissions/sub3.pdf
Unfortunately this PDF has some voodoo associated with it making it impossible to copy paste from it, it only pastes scrambled text. However it outlines the entire screening procedure of international mail in Australia, and confirms that since 2002 100% of incoming international mail was subject to at a minimum one of the following screening techniques, however they could not maintain 100% and had to update their infrastructure in order to do so:
*Canine sniffing for narcotics detection
*Human inspection
*X-ray scanning
*Possible opening
*Canine sniffing for the presence of vegetables etc
yeah i think it was you who said never to open PDF's in Tor and who's advice im following lol.
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www.em.gov.au/Documents/AustnQuarantineArrangementsattheBorder.pdf
At airports, with the benefit of
increased resources, over 90% of
passenger baggage is screened.
Similarly, 100% of international
mail is now screened for material
of quarantine concern, and 100%
of sea containers are inspected.
Continuing high levels of co-
operation between AQIS, Customs
and industry have assisted in
achieving these results.
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www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=jcpaa/aqis/submissions/sub3.pdf
Unfortunately this PDF has some voodoo associated with it making it impossible to copy paste from it, it only pastes scrambled text. However it outlines the entire screening procedure of international mail in Australia, and confirms that since 2002 100% of incoming international mail was subject to at a minimum one of the following screening techniques, however they could not maintain 100% and had to update their infrastructure in order to do so:
*Canine sniffing for narcotics detection
*Human inspection
*X-ray scanning
*Possible opening
*Canine sniffing for the presence of vegetables etc
yeah i think it was you who said never to open PDF's in Tor and who's advice im following lol.
Don't open it then but it is obfuscated and I can not copy paste from it
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What I really want to find is a news article I read some years back where they interviewed an Australian customs official, he claimed that 100% of international packages are inspected but that for letter mail they can not achieve such a high rate.
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all im saying is that SR really is proof of otherwise and its not like governments to spread lies to make us do what they want is it?
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I remember a quote somewhere that only 30% of total mail get's scanned; but of that 100% of mail from 'flagged' counties get's at least a dog run.
Further 'hand inspection' is deceptive terminology, this usually just refers to sorting it into bins off the conveyor belt.
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all im saying is that SR really is proof of otherwise and its not like governments to spread lies to make us do what they want is it?
How many of the known busts related to SR have been in Australia ?? How many people here in Australia have had trouble with interceptions? Also we don't know the size of international orders people are placing, but a lot are probably standard letter mail. It is not just government statistics I base my claim of Australia having difficult customs on, but the fact that I know of so many more people in Australia who had orders intercepted than I do people from any other country.
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he claimed that 100% of international packages are inspected but that for letter mail they can not achieve such a high rate.
"claimed" being the operative word. Customs/Borders Authorities have no motivation to claim that they screen anything less than 100% of international post, particularly given the current situation with regard to fake terror threats.
I suggest you think carefully about what you are trying to achieve before you try to make a point so vociferously. As there are no doubt some nervous Australians 1st time buyers who may think twice unnecessarily on the basis of what you've said. Not what you'd want, surely?
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I remember a quote somewhere that only 30% of total mail get's scanned; but of that 100% of mail from 'flagged' counties get's at least a dog run.
Further 'hand inspection' is deceptive terminology, this usually just refers to sorting it into bins off the conveyor belt.
Was this in relation to Australia? I am having trouble finding exact statistics for how much international mail to USA gets scanned, but I did find a report that 100% of 'high risk' mail gets scanned. I believe I have read that 100% of mail from countries like Columbia is scanned. I would be more inclined to think 30% of all international mail 100% of international mail from specific countries is scanned applies to US than to Australia, where I can only find citations claiming 100% of all international mail or 100% of all non-letter international mail is scanned. Even 30% seems high for USA considering the amount of shit people I know have imported to there.
The NII Program seeks to match the
technology and equipment with the conditions and requirements at, and between, domestic
ports of entry and U.S. facilities that process international mail; and helps ensure CBP can
meet its goal to inspect 100 percent of all targeted high-risk shipments.
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no known SR busts in AUS. this has been debated in the AUS shipping threads that there has yet to be any verifiable evidence of a bust related to SR even though plenty of people have had packages just "not turn up"
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I remember a quote somewhere that only 30% of total mail get's scanned; but of that 100% of mail from 'flagged' counties get's at least a dog run.
Further 'hand inspection' is deceptive terminology, this usually just refers to sorting it into bins off the conveyor belt.
Was this in relation to Australia? I am having trouble finding exact statistics for how much international mail to USA gets scanned, but I did find a report that 100% of 'high risk' mail gets scanned. I believe I have read that 100% of mail from countries like Columbia is scanned. I would be more inclined to think 30% of all international mail 100% of international mail from specific countries is scanned applies to US than to Australia, where I can only find citations claiming 100% of all international mail or 100% of all non-letter international mail is scanned. Even 30% seems high for USA considering the amount of shit people I know have imported to there.
The NII Program seeks to match the
technology and equipment with the conditions and requirements at, and between, domestic
ports of entry and U.S. facilities that process international mail; and helps ensure CBP can
meet its goal to inspect 100 percent of all targeted high-risk shipments.
same could be said from myself...........
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no known SR busts in AUS. this has been debated in the AUS shipping threads that there has yet to be any verifiable evidence of a bust related to SR even though plenty of people have had packages just "not turn up"
There has been at a minimum one confirmed bust in Aus actually I think there have been others as well but I can't recall exactly so will simply leave it at one confirmed
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/07/melbourne-man-arrested-after-allegedly-importing-drugs-via-silk-road/
I will be happy for you to stop claiming that I don't know what I am talking about I am getting tired of hunting down all of these citations ;)
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I believe that so far all of the known SR busts have been in Aus and NZ although I am not positive on that
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Yeah I was referring to AUS
no known SR busts in AUS. this has been debated in the AUS shipping threads that there has yet to be any verifiable evidence of a bust related to SR even though plenty of people have had packages just "not turn up"
There has been at a minimum one confirmed bust in Aus actually I think there have been others as well but I can't recall exactly so will simply leave it at one confirmed
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/07/melbourne-man-arrested-after-allegedly-importing-drugs-via-silk-road/
I will be happy for you to stop claiming that I don't know what I am talking about I am getting tired of hunting down all of these citations ;)
I think the forums concluded that this was a least partially fabricated by LE given no names of the defendant's were released. Not saying that busts won't happen but more likely LEO are building case's against larger distributors importing into AUS.
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I believe that so far all of the known SR busts have been in Aus and NZ although I am not positive on that
There was one from Swiss or Austria I think that happened recently, reported in the forums with citation somewhere; fairly medium level vendor.
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I wouldn't be so sure that they will only go after big time importers, I knew someone in Aus many years back on a private forum who got raided by feds with guns drawn at dawn and they had intercepted something like half a sheet of acid a few grams of k and some mdma (can't remember exact order details). He only ended up getting probation, although he was likely sent to prison shortly after as another vendor sent a package to him after that ordeal and we never heard from him again (plus it was only the first part of a two pack shipment and he never claimed he got the first pack or made any new posts so).
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I suspect both moksha and kmfkewm are correct, depending on your definition of what 'inspection' means in practice. I suspect their 100% claim actually weakens their ability to intercept more parcels, since it is a normative metric and not a dynamic one. e.g. political pressure to make a precursory sweep if you can't inspect the last 5% properly.
Whether customs are more or less adept at interception depends a great deal on geographical circumstances so far as I can see. It's easier to look smart when the terrain is in your favor, and that confidence may then increase proficiency elsewhere. But take away the geographical advantage, and they lose the war entirely. In fact I think this will happen, since I think swarming is something that will come to the postal services of most countries eventually (small autonomous aircraft like drones taking parcels from A to B, both within countries and across great distances).
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I wouldn't be so sure that they will only go after big time importers, I knew someone in Aus many years back on a private forum who got raided by feds with guns drawn at dawn and they had intercepted something like half a sheet of acid a few grams of k and some mdma (can't remember exact order details). He only ended up getting probation, although he was likely sent to prison shortly after as another vendor sent a package to him after that ordeal and we never heard from him again (plus it was only the first part of a two pack shipment and he never claimed he got the first pack or made any new posts so).
You may well be right, scary stuff indeed. Although the scale of people importing might limit their resources into going after low levels when they make a co-originated bust in the future.
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www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=jcpaa/aqis/submissions/sub3.pdf
Unfortunately this PDF has some voodoo associated with it making it impossible to copy paste from it, it only pastes scrambled text. However it outlines the entire screening procedure of international mail in Australia, and confirms that since 2002 100% of incoming international mail was subject to at a minimum one of the following screening techniques, however they could not maintain 100% and had to update their infrastructure in order to do so:
*Canine sniffing for narcotics detection
*Human inspection
*X-ray scanning
*Possible opening
*Canine sniffing for the presence of vegetables etc
yeah i think it was you who said never to open PDF's in Tor and who's advice im following lol.
See my VM tutorial! /shameless advertising/
-> http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=39320.0
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I believe that so far all of the known SR busts have been in Aus and NZ although I am not positive on that
There was one from Swiss or Austria I think that happened recently, reported in the forums with citation somewhere; fairly medium level vendor.
yes imprint who i think was working with pfandhelier or however you spell it.
and im preety sure that article was just LE speculating he brought from places "like silk road"
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www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=jcpaa/aqis/submissions/sub3.pdf
Unfortunately this PDF has some voodoo associated with it making it impossible to copy paste from it, it only pastes scrambled text. However it outlines the entire screening procedure of international mail in Australia, and confirms that since 2002 100% of incoming international mail was subject to at a minimum one of the following screening techniques, however they could not maintain 100% and had to update their infrastructure in order to do so:
*Canine sniffing for narcotics detection
*Human inspection
*X-ray scanning
*Possible opening
*Canine sniffing for the presence of vegetables etc
What is happening is that they are running dogs up and down the conveyor belts or something similar. Which means the bottleneck is the quantity of correctly trained drug dogs, there really are not that many of them. Drug dogs are expensive, but the other techniques are even more expensive. So I expect they upgraded to postal intercept machines like the ion spec or something long since 2002, a decade is a long time. The key question then becomes the threshold at which the machines start to bleep.
Also, lol at "canine sniffing for the pretense of vegetables", Australians! You guys! Always bringing humor to my day! :D
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Still is a huge difference between 100% of mail having some screening technique applied to it, regardless of how effective, and less than 100% of mail being screened (or whatever it is in USA I am not sure) with only 100% of mail from certain high risk countries being screened with some technique, regardless of how effective.
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Alright, I'll consider using PGP in future.
My orders have been delivered to Aus fairly successfully. My experience is to not use a fake name. Only a couple packages arrive before "something" happens, but seizure letters never arrive. Makes me think working as a customs officer would be a nice job! ;)
Working on that light sensitive RFID chip idea would be fun; if only I had the time! You could scan the PO/letter box before opening.
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Border agencies in the future will be aided by advancements in technology, for security and facilitation functions. I suspect that in the coming years we will see faster methods of determining the concentration or potency of a substance by using bio and nano technologies, using radio-frequency identification tracking of commercial products and individuals, or even having the means to use pervasive undetectable visual surveillance.
Speech from Mr Michael Pezzullo, (COO Australian Customs and Border Protection Service) at the 4th Annual Border Security Conference - 21 May 2012
Other relevant info from the same piece:
The increasing volume in trade and travel is often a surprise for those hearing them for the first time. International passengers are forecast to almost double, from around 28 million this year to 40 million by 2020 – just eight years away. Cargo trade is projected to increase by almost fifty per cent: incoming sea container volumes will rise from 2.5 million to 5 million and air consignments from 14 million to 22 million.
In 2010-11, Customs and Border Protection processed over 28 million passengers, over 14 million air cargo consignments and 56 million international mail parcels. We inspected over 100,000 sea cargo containers, boarded 6450 commercial sea vessels when they first arrived, surveilled, by air, over 147 million square nautical miles of coastline, and surveilled, by sea, 2.76 million square nautical miles of water.
In dealing with these passenger and cargo volumes, we collected over $9 billion in border tax and duties and helped the ATO to collect $20 billion in border GST. We detected almost 16,000 seizures of illicit drugs and precursors, totalling over 4.7 tonnes. We detected almost 1200 undeclared conventional firearms, parts and accessories from entering Australia.
There's a lot of other good info in there as well, just can't be bothered going through it again. Worth a read, at least a few contradictions in there.
Haha! I love this game, I wouldn't give it up for anything in the world and it's just starting to get good. Wait until you see the next level in 2020, it's getting more badass than ever.
We need more people like Pezzullo or we'll get sloppy, and it's also doubleplusgood fun leaning on Australia. Love you drug dogs! Awesome fluffy motherfuckers!
Pine's job satisfaction = 100% woooooooooooooooot!
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www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=jcpaa/aqis/submissions/sub3.pdf
Unfortunately this PDF has some voodoo associated with it making it impossible to copy paste from it, it only pastes scrambled text. However it outlines the entire screening procedure of international mail in Australia, and confirms that since 2002 100% of incoming international mail was subject to at a minimum one of the following screening techniques, however they could not maintain 100% and had to update their infrastructure in order to do so:
*Canine sniffing for narcotics detection
*Human inspection
*X-ray scanning
*Possible opening
*Canine sniffing for the presence of vegetables etc
yeah i think it was you who said never to open PDF's in Tor and who's advice im following lol.
See my VM tutorial! /shameless advertising/
-> http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=39320.0
Dear Pine,
Just want to say what an ABSOLUTE asset you are the SR community as a whole. Your guidance, advice and wisdom to new users should be acknowledged and the SR forum would be at a loss without.
Thank you for your dedication, time and hard work from the Matrix™ Team.
Matrix 8)
-
Dear Pine,
Just want to say what an ABSOLUTE asset you are the SR community as a whole. Your guidance, advice and wisdom to new users should be acknowledged and the SR forum would be at a loss without.
Thank you for your dedication, time and hard work from the Matrix™ Team.
Matrix 8)
Thank-you ETM, I am but a humble platypus among my fellow freedom loving aquatic mammals. :)
AAM FTW!
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Also sea cargo != international mail , they are probably talking about big shipping services transporting barrels of shit and similar things , not the postal service
They'll be talking about cargo ships, livestock and mined material (coal, steel, uranium). Australia is the giant X on the world's treasure map. No wonder it was colonized by convicts.
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I don't think I've seen anyone post this yet. No idea how reliable the source is: http://www.scmagazine.com.au/News/314984,aussie-coppers-bedeviled-by-online-contraband-networks.aspx
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Also, lol at "canine sniffing for the pretense of vegetables", Australians! You guys! Always bringing humor to my day! :D
That's a quarantine thing and they're pretty serious about it. As an island they've managed to keep all sorts of nasty bugs and diseases from smashing their agriculture industry. Like keeping Foot and Mouth away from their beef industry and there's something to do with apples and some insect or blight. They made a big song and dance about it a few years ago when they made that "Free" Trade Agreement with the US.
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"For example, compulsive users ... may become frustrated by the relatively slow speed of Tor as compared to broadband internet, which may tempt them to stray off Tor,"
Guilty as charged. That link could have been a plant to mine our IP addresses. :(
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Also, lol at "canine sniffing for the pretense of vegetables", Australians! You guys! Always bringing humor to my day! :D
That's a quarantine thing and they're pretty serious about it. As an island they've managed to keep all sorts of nasty bugs and diseases from smashing their agriculture industry. Like keeping Foot and Mouth away from their beef industry and there's something to do with apples and some insect or blight. They made a big song and dance about it a few years ago when they made that "Free" Trade Agreement with the US.
yeah AQIS couldnt give a fuck if you got a bag full of plutonium aslong as there isnt an apple or banana in there. then you will get your $600 fine
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"For example, compulsive users ... may become frustrated by the relatively slow speed of Tor as compared to broadband internet, which may tempt them to stray off Tor,"
Guilty as charged. That link could have been a plant to mine our IP addresses. :(
Wait, you mean to tell me that you don't use Tor to follow links posted on SR?? I hope that this is not common practice, because if it is then it would be an efficient LE technique for gathering IP addresses. And yes, they could with high probability link the IP address to a forum user name.
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Much like the word was spread about PGP, SR users need to start educating each other about the use of Virtual Machines, especially TorBox/aos.
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Much like the word was spread about PGP, SR users need to start educating each other about the use of Virtual Machines, especially TorBox/aos.
Educate them about the fact that operating systems run in virtual machines are easier to hack and that instead of using them they should use mandatory access controls for isolation?
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I think if your goal is simply anonymous darknet browsing, then you can't go wrong with TorBox.
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If you're going through the trouble of setting up a VM, you might as well just create a bootable ISO or USB stick and disable your hard drive from BIOS if possible (physically remove all storage for best security). Flash drives or other rewritable media can also be wiped and recreated with every reboot to ensure that any latent malware is destroyed.
Security wise, VMs are much like glorified sandboxes as kmf pointed out. All it takes is a single function escaping isolation, which is not that uncommon at all despite what some may think. That's why the new Kaspersky suite is moving from sandbox to a HIPS-based solution (access controls) that carefully controls each program's actions, like an internal system "firewall" and intrusion detection system for running processes, services, injected DLLs.
That said, booting off a read only drive without any additional storage media in your computer is the way to go. If you're a vendor, I'd say it's an absolute must.
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If you're going through the trouble of setting up a VM, you might as well just create a bootable ISO or USB stick and disable your hard drive from BIOS if possible (physically remove all storage for best security). Flash drives or other rewritable media can also be wiped and recreated with every reboot to ensure that any latent malware is destroyed.
Security wise, VMs are much like glorified sandboxes as kmf pointed out. All it takes is a single function escaping isolation, which is not that uncommon at all despite what some may think. That's why the new Kaspersky suite is moving from sandbox to a HIPS-based solution (access controls) that carefully controls each program's actions, like an internal system "firewall" and intrusion detection system for running processes, services, injected DLLs.
That said, booting off a read only drive without any additional storage media in your computer is the way to go. If you're a vendor, I'd say it's an absolute must.
The trouble of setting up a VM? Install VirtualBox > Import Liberte .ova > Run
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If you're going through the trouble of setting up a VM, you might as well just create a bootable ISO or USB stick and disable your hard drive from BIOS if possible (physically remove all storage for best security). Flash drives or other rewritable media can also be wiped and recreated with every reboot to ensure that any latent malware is destroyed.
Security wise, VMs are much like glorified sandboxes as kmf pointed out. All it takes is a single function escaping isolation, which is not that uncommon at all despite what some may think. That's why the new Kaspersky suite is moving from sandbox to a HIPS-based solution (access controls) that carefully controls each program's actions, like an internal system "firewall" and intrusion detection system for running processes, services, injected DLLs.
That said, booting off a read only drive without any additional storage media in your computer is the way to go. If you're a vendor, I'd say it's an absolute must.
The trouble of setting up a VM? Install VirtualBox > Import Liberte .ova > Run
That's kind of what I meant in terms of TorBox, you don't have to understand all the ins and outs of the technology to get an improvement in protection.
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he claimed that 100% of international packages are inspected but that for letter mail they can not achieve such a high rate.
"claimed" being the operative word. Customs/Borders Authorities have no motivation to claim that they screen anything less than 100% of international post, particularly given the current situation with regard to fake terror threats.
I suggest you think carefully about what you are trying to achieve before you try to make a point so vociferously. As there are no doubt some nervous Australians 1st time buyers who may think twice unnecessarily on the basis of what you've said. Not what you'd want, surely?
No, it is what I want. Australia indeed has tough as shit customs, indeed they screen 100% of incoming international mail (as I have proven with multiple citations from multiple sources including internal government agency assessment documents that were never intended for drug smugglers to look at), and if people in Australia start to only import letter sized packages due to my pointing this out to them, then there are going to be far fewer busts and interceptions of international packages going to Australians.
I think most Australians would much rather know that their customs screen 100% of incoming mail and that getting large shipments through is extraordinarily harder for them to do than it is for people in countries like U.S.A., than they would like to hear a bunch of feel good bullshit and non cited claims to the contrary. See a naive user here may not know that their countries customs is more difficult than the customs of most other people ordering drugs here, and it is good to let them know that before they try to import a kilo of ketamine (safe enough in USA) and get ass raped (very risky in Australia). Why do you think internationally sourced drugs cost five times more in Australia than they do in other countries? Ask anyone in the mail order drug game for several years which country has the most notorious customs and tell me what their answer is. Ask any vendors who have shipped to many countries for long periods of time which countries they have had the most interceptions to.
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our local laws arent as draconian to get you "ass-raped" though ( apparently actually more of a common practice in American Prisons ). Anyway I think if your that naive you shouldnt be ordering a kilo of ketamine.
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kmf - what is your suggestion regarding amounts from international sources? 1gm? 1 ounce? based on what you have read and investigated is there a certain threshold that people should stay beneath?
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kmf - what is your suggestion regarding amounts from international sources? 1gm? 1 ounce? based on what you have read and investigated is there a certain threshold that people should stay beneath?
There's a table of possession\trafficking limits state by state that you can look up, or find here posted in the forums.
But that's once it's in your hand, through customs and with all evidence destroyed. Until then you're dealing with national Commonwealth law. See the 1901 (I think) Customs Act.
tl;dr
Move to Tasmania
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kmf - what is your suggestion regarding amounts from international sources? 1gm? 1 ounce? based on what you have read and investigated is there a certain threshold that people should stay beneath?
I would try to keep international orders to Australia 10 grams and under personally.
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kmf - what is your suggestion regarding amounts from international sources? 1gm? 1 ounce? based on what you have read and investigated is there a certain threshold that people should stay beneath?
There's a table of possession\trafficking limits state by state that you can look up, or find here posted in the forums.
But that's once it's in your hand, through customs and with all evidence destroyed. Until then you're dealing with national Commonwealth law. See the 1901 (I think) Customs Act.
tl;dr
Move to Tasmania
fuckin love tassie! ;D
Tasmania's always buy bulk from us... god bless 'em!
Matrix 8)
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interesting read mate. thank you
+1 when i can ;D
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kmf - what is your suggestion regarding amounts from international sources? 1gm? 1 ounce? based on what you have read and investigated is there a certain threshold that people should stay beneath?
There's a table of possession\trafficking limits state by state that you can look up, or find here posted in the forums.
But that's once it's in your hand, through customs and with all evidence destroyed. Until then you're dealing with national Commonwealth law. See the 1901 (I think) Customs Act.
tl;dr
Move to Tasmania
fuckin love tassie! ;D
Tasmania's always buy bulk from us... god bless 'em!
Matrix 8)
Well they do have two heads too feed
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For those guys saying 100% of all mailed is checked etc, I think your fair from the mark have a read of this article, The 100% number is a farse, How hard is it to satisfy that criteria listed? does a dog walking next to a conveyer belt all day satisfy? dogs can only work for sort periods of time before they lose attention and go off into lala land, does a fat lady standing at a bottle neck in the line picking up the occasional dodgy item satisfy??
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/customs-turns-to-intelligence-in-canute-like-battle-to-stem-tide-of-illegal-imports/story-e6frgd0x-1226347237490
"Even if Customs had the resources to inspect all sea and air freight it would "gum" the economy, which relies on the timely release of imports, Pezzullo says.
"The time involved in doing this would involve far more resources, plus time penalties on Australian industry."
Only 100,000 of the 2.5 million shipping containers - one in 25 - are subject to X-ray inspection, while barely 1.5 million - one in nine - of the 13.9 million air cargo assignments are X-rayed. Of the 54 million air freight parcels received through the postal system, only 21 million are X-rayed.
Customs says these odds are not as tempting as they might look to criminals, because 100 per cent of cargo and freight is risk-assessed, and high-risk shipments identified during this process are subject to inspection."
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Those numbers are SO much higher than the U.K or U.S though.
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For those guys saying 100% of all mailed is checked etc, I think your fair from the mark have a read of this article, The 100% number is a farse, How hard is it to satisfy that criteria listed? does a dog walking next to a conveyer belt all day satisfy? dogs can only work for sort periods of time before they lose attention and go off into lala land, does a fat lady standing at a bottle neck in the line picking up the occasional dodgy item satisfy??
Thats what we have been trying to say but everyone seems to want to believe the customs propaganda.
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4. A total lack of violence and exploitation is very much working in our favor. So in other words, the idea of a community working together to protect the new and vulnerable has been identified as a huge obstacle for any kind of serious attempt to stop SR.
Can somebody explain this to me ? I'm not sure I get the point right. How is the lack of violence preventing them from stopping SR ? I mean, it seems to me that what is stopping them from taking action is the obscurity of Tor and PGP, not violence or a lack thereof. Is it because there is no crime and no crime scene leaving trails to a drug cartel ?
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Dear Pine,
Just want to say what an ABSOLUTE asset you are the SR community as a whole. Your guidance, advice and wisdom to new users should be acknowledged and the SR forum would be at a loss without.
Thank you for your dedication, time and hard work from the Matrix™ Team.
Matrix 8)
Thank-you ETM, I am but a humble platypus among my fellow freedom loving aquatic mammals. :)
AAM FTW!
I second this. I have read your posts Pine. You seem very intelligent and I have learned alot. Thanks.
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4. A total lack of violence and exploitation is very much working in our favor. So in other words, the idea of a community working together to protect the new and vulnerable has been identified as a huge obstacle for any kind of serious attempt to stop SR.
Can somebody explain this to me ? I'm not sure I get the point right. How is the lack of violence preventing them from stopping SR ? I mean, it seems to me that what is stopping them from taking action is the obscurity of Tor and PGP, not violence or a lack thereof. Is it because there is no crime and no crime scene leaving trails to a drug cartel ?
SR is a more civilised way of purchasing ones drug of choice.
Matrix 8)
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4. A total lack of violence and exploitation is very much working in our favor. So in other words, the idea of a community working together to protect the new and vulnerable has been identified as a huge obstacle for any kind of serious attempt to stop SR.
Can somebody explain this to me ? I'm not sure I get the point right. How is the lack of violence preventing them from stopping SR ? I mean, it seems to me that what is stopping them from taking action is the obscurity of Tor and PGP, not violence or a lack thereof. Is it because there is no crime and no crime scene leaving trails to a drug cartel ?
Because without no violence there is no police reports, either from the primary victims or by-standing witnesses, so now there is no opening into our world. There is also no chance to exploit people to to turn in drug uisers or dealers. If you get caught with drugs off here, they cant scare people into giving up the bigger fish, as nobody knows the true identity of the person they received drugs off, causing LE to be infuriated :D
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If you get caught with drugs off here, they cant scare people into giving up the bigger fish, as nobody knows the true identity of the person they received drugs off, causing LE to be infuriated :D
It is for this reason I believe SR will eventually be subject to false positive reports. It would be much safer for someone to claim their drugs came anonymously in the mail than to give a real (perhaps large and dangerous) human being up.
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If you get caught with drugs off here, they cant scare people into giving up the bigger fish, as nobody knows the true identity of the person they received drugs off, causing LE to be infuriated :D
It is for this reason I believe SR will eventually be subject to false positive reports. It would be much safer for someone to claim their drugs came anonymously in the mail than to give a real (perhaps large and dangerous) human being up.
I was actually thinking the exact same thing before. But then your opening yourself up to a myriad of other charges including federal charges such as using the Mail system for etc etc. I think the safest thing to say is still the "I just brought it off this guy i met at nightclub/party/orgy, he had a good deal and i couldnt turn him down as it was the first time i have used and i was instantly addicted, Im so sorry officer. I havent seen him before or since" line.
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It is for this reason I believe SR will eventually be subject to false positive reports.
What does this mean in layman's term?
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For those guys saying 100% of all mailed is checked etc, I think your fair from the mark have a read of this article, The 100% number is a farse, How hard is it to satisfy that criteria listed? does a dog walking next to a conveyer belt all day satisfy? dogs can only work for sort periods of time before they lose attention and go off into lala land, does a fat lady standing at a bottle neck in the line picking up the occasional dodgy item satisfy??
Thats what we have been trying to say but everyone seems to want to believe the customs propaganda.
You guys just don't understand the difference between freight and air cargo as they are meant in the quotes you gave and international mail as it is meant in the quotes I gave.
Customs didn't create internal reports, verified by third party contractors, in pre 9/11 2001, about how much mail they screen, to scare people away from trafficking drugs in the mail. It is crazy to think that way. Please enjoy importing huge packs into Australia, I hope you don't get busted but such behavior is being reckless imo.
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For those guys saying 100% of all mailed is checked etc, I think your fair from the mark have a read of this article, The 100% number is a farse, How hard is it to satisfy that criteria listed? does a dog walking next to a conveyer belt all day satisfy? dogs can only work for sort periods of time before they lose attention and go off into lala land, does a fat lady standing at a bottle neck in the line picking up the occasional dodgy item satisfy??
Thats what we have been trying to say but everyone seems to want to believe the customs propaganda.
You guys just don't understand the difference between freight and air cargo as they are meant in the quotes you gave and international mail as it is meant in the quotes I gave.
Customs didn't create internal reports, verified by third party contractors, in pre 9/11 2001, about how much mail they screen, to scare people away from trafficking drugs in the mail. It is crazy to think that way. Please enjoy importing huge packs into Australia, I hope you don't get busted but such behavior is being reckless imo.
This was also a pre ebay/online shopping world so there was alooooooot less mail. The strength of the Australian Dollar, the amount of money we earn here and the price's of goods overseas compared to here means there is a crazy amount of mail coming in and theres only a limited amount of resources a country of only 20 million can devote to customs
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It is for this reason I believe SR will eventually be subject to false positive reports.
What does this mean in layman's term?
That if someone is done in a street/house bust they will claim to have received the drugs anonymously from Silk Road rather than giving up Scary Steve the local dealer.
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I feel like the LE crack down on SR and BTC has already begun in the UK. It's getting increasingly difficult to get coins from the previously reliable websites (e.g. Intersango, Mt.Gox). The UK banks which these companies use are freezing their accounts so they can't accept GBP deposits.
Very annoying and causing a lot of people problems. I think this is the most likely way the SR will come under attack.... via the 'establishment' aka 'financial institutions.' It's clear that big banks don't like BTC as it's free market private currency which THEY don't control. I expect these kinds of attack to become frequent as they attempt to stifle the currency we use. If we can't get coins, we can't use SR. Simple as.
Anyway, as this thread has an Aussie theme, can anyone on here recommend a reliable source for BTC in Australia, that accepts Aussie bank deposits? Please PM me if you don't want to post it. Would appreciate the help.
Cheers
PTF
-
I feel like the LE crack down on SR and BTC has already begun in the UK. It's getting increasingly difficult to get coins from the previously reliable websites (e.g. Intersango, Mt.Gox). The UK banks which these companies use are freezing their accounts so they can't accept GBP deposits.
Very annoying and causing a lot of people problems. I think this is the most likely way the SR will come under attack.... via the 'establishment' aka 'financial institutions.' It's clear that big banks don't like BTC as it's free market private currency which THEY don't control. I expect these kinds of attack to become frequent as they attempt to stifle the currency we use. If we can't get coins, we can't use SR. Simple as.
Anyway, as this thread has an Aussie theme, can anyone on here recommend a reliable source for BTC in Australia, that accepts Aussie bank deposits? Please PM me if you don't want to post it. Would appreciate the help.
Cheers
PTF
Online illegal marketplaces have existed for over a decade and they have never shut down all the secure ways of anonymously transferring funds and I doubt they ever will.
-
I feel like the LE crack down on SR and BTC has already begun in the UK. It's getting increasingly difficult to get coins from the previously reliable websites (e.g. Intersango, Mt.Gox). The UK banks which these companies use are freezing their accounts so they can't accept GBP deposits.
Very annoying and causing a lot of people problems. I think this is the most likely way the SR will come under attack.... via the 'establishment' aka 'financial institutions.' It's clear that big banks don't like BTC as it's free market private currency which THEY don't control. I expect these kinds of attack to become frequent as they attempt to stifle the currency we use. If we can't get coins, we can't use SR. Simple as.
Anyway, as this thread has an Aussie theme, can anyone on here recommend a reliable source for BTC in Australia, that accepts Aussie bank deposits? Please PM me if you don't want to post it. Would appreciate the help.
Cheers
PTF
Yes, we agree. LE will try to hit SR in the same way it has tried to cut off funding to Wikileaks with the help of VISA, Mastercard and Paypal. Financial terrorism is the new cyber warfare against the governments enemies.
Matrix 8)
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Financial terrorism is the new cyber warfare against the governments enemies.
Matrix 8)
It's hella backfiring :D
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I feel like the LE crack down on SR and BTC has already begun in the UK. It's getting increasingly difficult to get coins from the previously reliable websites (e.g. Intersango, Mt.Gox). The UK banks which these companies use are freezing their accounts so they can't accept GBP deposits.
Very annoying and causing a lot of people problems. I think this is the most likely way the SR will come under attack.... via the 'establishment' aka 'financial institutions.' It's clear that big banks don't like BTC as it's free market private currency which THEY don't control. I expect these kinds of attack to become frequent as they attempt to stifle the currency we use. If we can't get coins, we can't use SR. Simple as.
Anyway, as this thread has an Aussie theme, can anyone on here recommend a reliable source for BTC in Australia, that accepts Aussie bank deposits? Please PM me if you don't want to post it. Would appreciate the help.
Cheers
PTF
Online illegal marketplaces have existed for over a decade and they have never shut down all the secure ways of anonymously transferring funds and I doubt they ever will.
I agree with your optimism, but as the establishment close down the easiest, cheapest and most reliable ways to purchase coins, it certainly makes a headache for the people in this community.
-
OTC is the answer. A decentralized network of exchangers big and small with different types of tertiary market services. Right now it may seem inconvenient, but with enough infrastructure it'll be even easier than the current system, albeit the spreads are likely to be higher, but the anonymity property drastically higher, making less important the concept of disguising traffic on the blockchain.
localbitcoin, bitcoin-otc, tradebitcoin are just a few clearnet examples. I expect to see hidden services offering the same functions when those clearnet sites are attacked.
This will be part of a greater evolution, where vendors find it much better turnaround time on restocking inventory because they can go to a huge set of entities for exchange, using a thousand different methods. Don't think 1 solution, think an entire kaleidoscope of them.
Unless of course, there aren't millions of poorly paid, intelligent well educated young people out there willing to work for decent money without tax and nearly zero risk of getting caught.
So you see it all comes together, sooner or later. We are at the *perfect* spot in the economic cycle.
I am not suggesting we be passive observers. No Sir! I'm saying this is mother fucking Gold Rush time. We are going to construct the bridges, canals and roads for this new Industrial Revolution on the Black Markets, using 21st century technologies. In the future our financial markets will have the equivalent of vast container ships moving product, currency and information, for today we are small but tomorrow we will rule the coming century. The Black Market is simply exploding in size, all over the world in every sector, SR is simply a drop in the ocean and we represent the first group of people to realize the practical application of cryptocurrencies for placing a financial foundation underneath it. According to economists, although developed GDP growth has slowed down in the last 50 years, the black markets have accelerated, becoming once more the true face of "actual existing" capitalism.
Today's vendors and market participants will be tomorrow's Rockefellers and Rothschilds. You just have to grab a shovel and slam it, this is our country and there's gold in 'em hills.
You don't need to believe it, but I do and I'm going to make it happen by the whatever means necessary.
It doesn't matter if Bitcoin itself fails. It doesn't matter if SR fails. Only the Network matters. The supply and demand. That is what drives all this technological progress, little else. If a roadblock is dropped in our way, we'll build bypasses and fairly squiggly roads. It's not a matter of "belief", it's a practical matter of making money and recognizing arbitrage points.
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Actually, it might be better if Bitcoin does, in fact, fail. Bitcoin's Achilles heel is that it was never designed to be anonymous -- in fact, to counteract double-spending, all transactions MUST by design, be public. Chaumian digital cash is the exact opposite -- it is PRIVATE by design, using blinding, and uses mathematics to prevent double-spending by de-anonymizing anyone who double-spends a coin.
Guru
Agree completely, I can think of at least 3 practical reasons why Bitcoin has to fail that I have never seen discussed. But that's ok, it is a stepping stone, an intermediary. It's funny that some bitcoin proponents think that we're some kind of parasite on bitcoin, when in fact it's basically the other way around. SR is like a country. Bitcoin people who think that because SR is 1/3 - 1/2 of the market of bitcoin or so, it's not the main picture, are completely bonkers. This is why:
When I said SR is like a country, I wasn't using a metaphor. Let's say we have two countries. Americastan and Silkroadistan. Products in Silkroadistan are priced in bitcoins. Products in Americastan are priced in dollars. When you want products from Americastan, you must sell bitcoins and acquire dollars, then you visit Americanstan and return with Americastan products. Similarly, in order to obtain products from Silkroadistan, you doing the exact same process in reverse.
It's simply amazing how many people on the bitcoin forums do not comprehend this simple piece of economic logic. They say that "exchanges and currency trading" is the mainstay of the bitcoin economy currently, not the Silk Road. I fell over laughing when I heard that, but nobody seemed to get it.
Nooooooooooo. Not correct. The reason why those 'sectors' exist in the first place, is because travellers to Silkroadistan require currency to acquire product in Silkroadistan. Their accounting is badly wrong.
Thus, the currency trading done and the darknet markets are one and the same thing, just two sides of the same coin. The bitcoin advocates against SR are simply double counting. Actually almost the entire bitcoin economy is powered by the darknet markets. Not unless they literally mean that the trading fees from MtGox and Intersango are over 20 million dollars in income, which they are definitely not. 1 BTC bought on an exchange is 1 BTC used to buy drugs (or nice socks). Currencies are only worth their use value.
"Speculation" is another thing they fall back to. This doesn't add up either. Speculation is by definition a zero sum game. Gambling in such a way doesn't put any value into the bitcoin economy, it merely provides temporary liquidity. This is important property, but it doesn't materially change prices over any reasonable time frame and so it doesn't make sense to quote it as a sector. Similarly, real gambling e.g. bitcoin for poker games doesn't add value to the economy either. At no point is further value generated back into the bitcoin economy. Currencies are exchanged, but new value, actual products and services are not generated. An easy way to see this, is to visualize yourself on a desert island. If you use coconuts as a medium of exchange with your fellow ship wrecked friends, you'll quickly note that exchanging coconuts, at any kind of speed, does not change the economic value of the coconuts. The value of the coconuts remains static, but the prices continually changes, following the typical boom and bust process. Ultimately, if you average out the value of the coconuts over different (long) periods of time, you find that you reach an average that is almost exactly the same every time. This is because actual goods and services, real things, are what actually underpins the value of a currency, despite all appearances to the contrary. I know that bitcoin is mildly inflationary, but you see my point. Bitcoin is used to buy alpaca socks and drugs in the physical realm, and but for that it's just a bunch of geeks trading a sophisticated version of World of Warcraft game gold pieces back and forth. The exchanges themselves do actually add value to the economy, not the net transactions they facilitate, but the service of making transactions. This however, is not really that much value. Witness the size of the stock exchanges. The stock exchanges themselves are huge. The stock exchange, that is; the company offering the stock exchange service, is really really tiny, manned by a dozen staff or so in most cases.
LE, not having the rose tinted glasses so much, likely grasp this instinctively even if they don't hire an economist to work it out, which is why the exchanges are going to be raided and shut down. That is simply inevitable. I think they would try to hit SR first, and then the bitcoin exchanges later, which is the only reason why it hasn't yet occurred.
At some point naive bitcoin people and we shall part company. They will likely go into a tailspin like every other e-commence currency. I mean, I hope they don't, honestly. But any concessions to the State in the form of identification or registration is the regulatory death knell for an e-commerce solution trying to compete against the financial established order. They are up against MASSIVE corrupt banking corporations and officials making backroom deals. They haven't a hope in hell. They need us, but not all of them know it. SR is an extremely practical identification of a market requirement that already had a high threshold imposed via regulations i.e. that the product was illegal and therefore by definition regulated out of white market existence. So, looking at it this way, you see SR has less hurdles "paperwork", if you want to call it that, in obtaining product for many people.
Eventually however, the darknet markets will actually provide *cheaper* access to drugs. This is an outcome not many people get, not even on SR. But it too is inevitable. One simple reason among many, is that the entire apparatus of distributing drugs normally, this big hierarchy of gangs, is hugely expensive for the Mafia and other entities to maintain. The majority of players get pittance in fact, but there are so many of them that it's something (off the top of my head) like 20% - 40% of the cost of the drugs themselves. The second reason is horizontal and vertical integration is economic and highly profitable for a huge number of new market participants. Look those up on youtube or wikipedia or some place if you haven't heard of those ideas before. Basically it is now possible for a tiny team of even 3 or 5 person operation (making synthetics or doing grow-ops) to provide the same level of output as an entire traditional black market corporation with hundreds or thousands of workers. And there are others too.
Black market just turned Industrial. It's just that not everybody's caught up yet. In the future, all this will seem stupidly obvious to anybody on the street.
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A good place to get bitcoins from Australia is Spendbitcoins.com
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I feel like the LE crack down on SR and BTC has already begun in the UK. It's getting increasingly difficult to get coins from the previously reliable websites (e.g. Intersango, Mt.Gox). The UK banks which these companies use are freezing their accounts so they can't accept GBP deposits.
Very annoying and causing a lot of people problems. I think this is the most likely way the SR will come under attack.... via the 'establishment' aka 'financial institutions.' It's clear that big banks don't like BTC as it's free market private currency which THEY don't control. I expect these kinds of attack to become frequent as they attempt to stifle the currency we use. If we can't get coins, we can't use SR. Simple as.
Anyway, as this thread has an Aussie theme, can anyone on here recommend a reliable source for BTC in Australia, that accepts Aussie bank deposits? Please PM me if you don't want to post it. Would appreciate the help.
Cheers
PTF
Online illegal marketplaces have existed for over a decade and they have never shut down all the secure ways of anonymously transferring funds and I doubt they ever will.
I agree with your optimism, but as the establishment close down the easiest, cheapest and most reliable ways to purchase coins, it certainly makes a headache for the people in this community.
There were multi-million dollar cyber black markets before Bitcoin even existed. Granted most of them were concerned with stealing credit card information and hacking into bank accounts though. There are a lot of safe ways to handle financial transactions though. There must be a dozen different E-currency providers in a dozen different countries that don't require identification documents to get accounts with. Pretty much any electronic currency can be mixed. So some places are making it hard to get Bitcoins, but really it is not that hard. You can still send money via WU or bank wire to any of the several dozen different traditional E-currency exchangers, cash it out to liberty reserve or pecunix and then buy bitcoins from an exchanger that takes those forms of payment. The world is a huge place and there are a shit ton of different E-currencies and exchangers that convert between them, to be entirely focused on Bitcoin and Mt. Gox is to ignore the numerous other non-blocked channels through which Bitcoins can be obtained. I don't think that there will be a globally enforced shutdown of all anonymous E-currencies / exchangers, and even if there is fifty others will pop up to replace them. Nothing short of a global ban on these sorts of services can hamper anyone who puts effort into getting bitcoin.
Look at this exchanger, I just use them as an example because of their past reputation as being legitimate (however I can not and do not currently vouch for them as I have not used their services in a long time):
https://www.wm-center.com/
they sell bitcoin for the following currencies:
Liberty Reserve, C-Gold, Pecunix, Hoopay, Perfect Money
Liberty Reserve used to be a good bet but last I checked they crack down a bit more now. It is still probably possible to get a Liberty Reserve account anonymously without it being locked though. Pecunix is a great choice last I checked. Not sure about the other options. However I know there are several dozen exchangers who exchange Liberty Reserve and all of these other E-currencies between each other and they accept payment via everything from cash in the mail to western union to bank wire transfers. So what you do is send western union to one exchanger, give them the LR details of WM-center, they send LR to WM center, give WM center your bitcoin address and setup a trade between LR and bitcoin with them. Now you can buy bitcoins through any exchanger at all kinds of locations around the world, you just need to use indirection. Additionally you greatly increase your anonymity by doing it this way because now the trail stretches over multiple countries, E-currencies, etc. Before bitcoin came around the big vendors layered exchangers and e-currencies like this for anonymity and none had any real problems with it (although cashing out with an anonymous debit card helps infinitely).
Pretty much you just need to think outside of the Bitcoin box and you will see that restricting our ability to do financial exchange is nearly impossible. They can make it more difficult to use mainstream methods and go through popular channels perhaps, but with a bit of indirection added to the loading they become completely lost.
-
OTC is the answer. A decentralized network of exchangers big and small with different types of tertiary market services. Right now it may seem inconvenient, but with enough infrastructure it'll be even easier than the current system, albeit the spreads are likely to be higher, but the anonymity property drastically higher, making less important the concept of disguising traffic on the blockchain.
localbitcoin, bitcoin-otc, tradebitcoin are just a few clearnet examples. I expect to see hidden services offering the same functions when those clearnet sites are attacked.
This will be part of a greater evolution, where vendors find it much better turnaround time on restocking inventory because they can go to a huge set of entities for exchange, using a thousand different methods. Don't think 1 solution, think an entire kaleidoscope of them.
Unless of course, there aren't millions of poorly paid, intelligent well educated young people out there willing to work for decent money without tax and nearly zero risk of getting caught.
So you see it all comes together, sooner or later. We are at the *perfect* spot in the economic cycle.
I am not suggesting we be passive observers. No Sir! I'm saying this is mother fucking Gold Rush time. We are going to construct the bridges, canals and roads for this new Industrial Revolution on the Black Markets, using 21st century technologies. In the future our financial markets will have the equivalent of vast container ships moving product, currency and information, for today we are small but tomorrow we will rule the coming century. The Black Market is simply exploding in size, all over the world in every sector, SR is simply a drop in the ocean and we represent the first group of people to realize the practical application of cryptocurrencies for placing a financial foundation underneath it. According to economists, although developed GDP growth has slowed down in the last 50 years, the black markets have accelerated, becoming once more the true face of "actual existing" capitalism.
Today's vendors and market participants will be tomorrow's Rockefellers and Rothschilds. You just have to grab a shovel and slam it, this is our country and there's gold in 'em hills.
You don't need to believe it, but I do and I'm going to make it happen by the whatever means necessary.
It doesn't matter if Bitcoin itself fails. It doesn't matter if SR fails. Only the Network matters. The supply and demand. That is what drives all this technological progress, little else. If a roadblock is dropped in our way, we'll build bypasses and fairly squiggly roads. It's not a matter of "belief", it's a practical matter of making money and recognizing arbitrage points.
Actually, it might be better if Bitcoin does, in fact, fail. Bitcoin's Achilles heel is that it was never designed to be anonymous -- in fact, to counteract double-spending, all transactions MUST by design, be public. Chaumian digital cash is the exact opposite -- it is PRIVATE by design, using blinding, and uses mathematics to prevent double-spending by de-anonymizing anyone who double-spends a coin.
Guru
Blind mixing can be trivially layered on top of Bitcoin.
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ps you might like Pecunixs Voucher Safe guru
http://beforeitsnews.com/personal-finance/2010/12/siddley-inc-unveils-a-new-anonymous-digital-currency-voucher-safe-com-315292.html
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OTC is the answer. A decentralized network of exchangers big and small with different types of tertiary market services. Right now it may seem inconvenient, but with enough infrastructure it'll be even easier than the current system, albeit the spreads are likely to be higher, but the anonymity property drastically higher, making less important the concept of disguising traffic on the blockchain.
localbitcoin, bitcoin-otc, tradebitcoin are just a few clearnet examples. I expect to see hidden services offering the same functions when those clearnet sites are attacked.
This will be part of a greater evolution, where vendors find it much better turnaround time on restocking inventory because they can go to a huge set of entities for exchange, using a thousand different methods. Don't think 1 solution, think an entire kaleidoscope of them.
Unless of course, there aren't millions of poorly paid, intelligent well educated young people out there willing to work for decent money without tax and nearly zero risk of getting caught.
So you see it all comes together, sooner or later. We are at the *perfect* spot in the economic cycle.
I am not suggesting we be passive observers. No Sir! I'm saying this is mother fucking Gold Rush time. We are going to construct the bridges, canals and roads for this new Industrial Revolution on the Black Markets, using 21st century technologies. In the future our financial markets will have the equivalent of vast container ships moving product, currency and information, for today we are small but tomorrow we will rule the coming century. The Black Market is simply exploding in size, all over the world in every sector, SR is simply a drop in the ocean and we represent the first group of people to realize the practical application of cryptocurrencies for placing a financial foundation underneath it. According to economists, although developed GDP growth has slowed down in the last 50 years, the black markets have accelerated, becoming once more the true face of "actual existing" capitalism.
Today's vendors and market participants will be tomorrow's Rockefellers and Rothschilds. You just have to grab a shovel and slam it, this is our country and there's gold in 'em hills.
You don't need to believe it, but I do and I'm going to make it happen by the whatever means necessary.
It doesn't matter if Bitcoin itself fails. It doesn't matter if SR fails. Only the Network matters. The supply and demand. That is what drives all this technological progress, little else. If a roadblock is dropped in our way, we'll build bypasses and fairly squiggly roads. It's not a matter of "belief", it's a practical matter of making money and recognizing arbitrage points.
Actually, it might be better if Bitcoin does, in fact, fail. Bitcoin's Achilles heel is that it was never designed to be anonymous -- in fact, to counteract double-spending, all transactions MUST by design, be public. Chaumian digital cash is the exact opposite -- it is PRIVATE by design, using blinding, and uses mathematics to prevent double-spending by de-anonymizing anyone who double-spends a coin.
Guru
A challenger to BTC?
-
I feel like the LE crack down on SR and BTC has already begun in the UK. It's getting increasingly difficult to get coins from the previously reliable websites (e.g. Intersango, Mt.Gox). The UK banks which these companies use are freezing their accounts so they can't accept GBP deposits.
Very annoying and causing a lot of people problems. I think this is the most likely way the SR will come under attack.... via the 'establishment' aka 'financial institutions.' It's clear that big banks don't like BTC as it's free market private currency which THEY don't control. I expect these kinds of attack to become frequent as they attempt to stifle the currency we use. If we can't get coins, we can't use SR. Simple as.
Anyway, as this thread has an Aussie theme, can anyone on here recommend a reliable source for BTC in Australia, that accepts Aussie bank deposits? Please PM me if you don't want to post it. Would appreciate the help.
Cheers
PTF
Online illegal marketplaces have existed for over a decade and they have never shut down all the secure ways of anonymously transferring funds and I doubt they ever will.
I agree with your optimism, but as the establishment close down the easiest, cheapest and most reliable ways to purchase coins, it certainly makes a headache for the people in this community.
There were multi-million dollar cyber black markets before Bitcoin even existed. Granted most of them were concerned with stealing credit card information and hacking into bank accounts though. There are a lot of safe ways to handle financial transactions though. There must be a dozen different E-currency providers in a dozen different countries that don't require identification documents to get accounts with. Pretty much any electronic currency can be mixed. So some places are making it hard to get Bitcoins, but really it is not that hard. You can still send money via WU or bank wire to any of the several dozen different traditional E-currency exchangers, cash it out to liberty reserve or pecunix and then buy bitcoins from an exchanger that takes those forms of payment. The world is a huge place and there are a shit ton of different E-currencies and exchangers that convert between them, to be entirely focused on Bitcoin and Mt. Gox is to ignore the numerous other non-blocked channels through which Bitcoins can be obtained. I don't think that there will be a globally enforced shutdown of all anonymous E-currencies / exchangers, and even if there is fifty others will pop up to replace them. Nothing short of a global ban on these sorts of services can hamper anyone who puts effort into getting bitcoin.
Look at this exchanger, I just use them as an example because of their past reputation as being legitimate (however I can not and do not currently vouch for them as I have not used their services in a long time):
https://www.wm-center.com/
they sell bitcoin for the following currencies:
Liberty Reserve, C-Gold, Pecunix, Hoopay, Perfect Money
Liberty Reserve used to be a good bet but last I checked they crack down a bit more now. It is still probably possible to get a Liberty Reserve account anonymously without it being locked though. Pecunix is a great choice last I checked. Not sure about the other options. However I know there are several dozen exchangers who exchange Liberty Reserve and all of these other E-currencies between each other and they accept payment via everything from cash in the mail to western union to bank wire transfers. So what you do is send western union to one exchanger, give them the LR details of WM-center, they send LR to WM center, give WM center your bitcoin address and setup a trade between LR and bitcoin with them. Now you can buy bitcoins through any exchanger at all kinds of locations around the world, you just need to use indirection. Additionally you greatly increase your anonymity by doing it this way because now the trail stretches over multiple countries, E-currencies, etc. Before bitcoin came around the big vendors layered exchangers and e-currencies like this for anonymity and none had any real problems with it (although cashing out with an anonymous debit card helps infinitely).
Pretty much you just need to think outside of the Bitcoin box and you will see that restricting our ability to do financial exchange is nearly impossible. They can make it more difficult to use mainstream methods and go through popular channels perhaps, but with a bit of indirection added to the loading they become completely lost.
I have no doubt whatsoever that what you're stated is correct. That said, when the authorities start to squeeze on the Bitcoin exchanges, that will have the effect of making transfers harder, not impossible, but merely harder. The authorities hope to make things difficult to the point that the average small-time would-be drug purchaser will simply throw up their hands and give up.
Naturally, they won't be able to stop those who are highly motivated, but that is almost always the case no matter what they're trying to prevent. Just look at the recent influx of newbies, some of whom bemoan the difficulty of obtaining BTC, and plaintively cry, "Why can't we use Western Union or PayPal?" If I had to guess, I would estimate that about 80-90% of purchasers currently on Silk Road would give up if they were forced to resort to the types of methods you describe to be able to make purchases.
Guru
Thanks for the insight Guru, etc - As you say this will put some off, but where there's a will, there's a way!
-
I feel like the LE crack down on SR and BTC has already begun in the UK. It's getting increasingly difficult to get coins from the previously reliable websites (e.g. Intersango, Mt.Gox). The UK banks which these companies use are freezing their accounts so they can't accept GBP deposits.
Very annoying and causing a lot of people problems. I think this is the most likely way the SR will come under attack.... via the 'establishment' aka 'financial institutions.' It's clear that big banks don't like BTC as it's free market private currency which THEY don't control. I expect these kinds of attack to become frequent as they attempt to stifle the currency we use. If we can't get coins, we can't use SR. Simple as.
Anyway, as this thread has an Aussie theme, can anyone on here recommend a reliable source for BTC in Australia, that accepts Aussie bank deposits? Please PM me if you don't want to post it. Would appreciate the help.
Cheers
PTF
Online illegal marketplaces have existed for over a decade and they have never shut down all the secure ways of anonymously transferring funds and I doubt they ever will.
I agree with your optimism, but as the establishment close down the easiest, cheapest and most reliable ways to purchase coins, it certainly makes a headache for the people in this community.
There were multi-million dollar cyber black markets before Bitcoin even existed. Granted most of them were concerned with stealing credit card information and hacking into bank accounts though. There are a lot of safe ways to handle financial transactions though. There must be a dozen different E-currency providers in a dozen different countries that don't require identification documents to get accounts with. Pretty much any electronic currency can be mixed. So some places are making it hard to get Bitcoins, but really it is not that hard. You can still send money via WU or bank wire to any of the several dozen different traditional E-currency exchangers, cash it out to liberty reserve or pecunix and then buy bitcoins from an exchanger that takes those forms of payment. The world is a huge place and there are a shit ton of different E-currencies and exchangers that convert between them, to be entirely focused on Bitcoin and Mt. Gox is to ignore the numerous other non-blocked channels through which Bitcoins can be obtained. I don't think that there will be a globally enforced shutdown of all anonymous E-currencies / exchangers, and even if there is fifty others will pop up to replace them. Nothing short of a global ban on these sorts of services can hamper anyone who puts effort into getting bitcoin.
Look at this exchanger, I just use them as an example because of their past reputation as being legitimate (however I can not and do not currently vouch for them as I have not used their services in a long time):
https://www.wm-center.com/
they sell bitcoin for the following currencies:
Liberty Reserve, C-Gold, Pecunix, Hoopay, Perfect Money
Liberty Reserve used to be a good bet but last I checked they crack down a bit more now. It is still probably possible to get a Liberty Reserve account anonymously without it being locked though. Pecunix is a great choice last I checked. Not sure about the other options. However I know there are several dozen exchangers who exchange Liberty Reserve and all of these other E-currencies between each other and they accept payment via everything from cash in the mail to western union to bank wire transfers. So what you do is send western union to one exchanger, give them the LR details of WM-center, they send LR to WM center, give WM center your bitcoin address and setup a trade between LR and bitcoin with them. Now you can buy bitcoins through any exchanger at all kinds of locations around the world, you just need to use indirection. Additionally you greatly increase your anonymity by doing it this way because now the trail stretches over multiple countries, E-currencies, etc. Before bitcoin came around the big vendors layered exchangers and e-currencies like this for anonymity and none had any real problems with it (although cashing out with an anonymous debit card helps infinitely).
Pretty much you just need to think outside of the Bitcoin box and you will see that restricting our ability to do financial exchange is nearly impossible. They can make it more difficult to use mainstream methods and go through popular channels perhaps, but with a bit of indirection added to the loading they become completely lost.
Thanks kmfkewm for the links. It does sound complicated, but then so did the SR when I started a couple months ago! ;o) Will deffo look into these avenues.
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OTC is the answer. A decentralized network of exchangers big and small with different types of tertiary market services. Right now it may seem inconvenient, but with enough infrastructure it'll be even easier than the current system, albeit the spreads are likely to be higher, but the anonymity property drastically higher, making less important the concept of disguising traffic on the blockchain.
localbitcoin, bitcoin-otc, tradebitcoin are just a few clearnet examples. I expect to see hidden services offering the same functions when those clearnet sites are attacked.
This will be part of a greater evolution, where vendors find it much better turnaround time on restocking inventory because they can go to a huge set of entities for exchange, using a thousand different methods. Don't think 1 solution, think an entire kaleidoscope of them.
Unless of course, there aren't millions of poorly paid, intelligent well educated young people out there willing to work for decent money without tax and nearly zero risk of getting caught.
So you see it all comes together, sooner or later. We are at the *perfect* spot in the economic cycle.
I am not suggesting we be passive observers. No Sir! I'm saying this is mother fucking Gold Rush time. We are going to construct the bridges, canals and roads for this new Industrial Revolution on the Black Markets, using 21st century technologies. In the future our financial markets will have the equivalent of vast container ships moving product, currency and information, for today we are small but tomorrow we will rule the coming century. The Black Market is simply exploding in size, all over the world in every sector, SR is simply a drop in the ocean and we represent the first group of people to realize the practical application of cryptocurrencies for placing a financial foundation underneath it. According to economists, although developed GDP growth has slowed down in the last 50 years, the black markets have accelerated, becoming once more the true face of "actual existing" capitalism.
Today's vendors and market participants will be tomorrow's Rockefellers and Rothschilds. You just have to grab a shovel and slam it, this is our country and there's gold in 'em hills.
You don't need to believe it, but I do and I'm going to make it happen by the whatever means necessary.
It doesn't matter if Bitcoin itself fails. It doesn't matter if SR fails. Only the Network matters. The supply and demand. That is what drives all this technological progress, little else. If a roadblock is dropped in our way, we'll build bypasses and fairly squiggly roads. It's not a matter of "belief", it's a practical matter of making money and recognizing arbitrage points.
Pine, you continue to impress us with your commentary. Exciting times indeed ^_^ EnterTheMatrix™ can see huge growth in the black market and crypto currencies.
Matrix 8)
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Anyway, as this thread has an Aussie theme, can anyone on here recommend a reliable source for BTC in Australia, that accepts Aussie bank deposits? Please PM me if you don't want to post it. Would appreciate the help.
I've heard good things about bitpiggy.com and there are occasionally Australian traders in the Bitcoin OTC market.
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Anyway, as this thread has an Aussie theme, can anyone on here recommend a reliable source for BTC in Australia, that accepts Aussie bank deposits? Please PM me if you don't want to post it. Would appreciate the help.
I've heard good things about bitpiggy.com and there are occasionally Australian traders in the Bitcoin OTC market.
Thanks for the tip Louis - appreciate the help. I've got a few methods open to me now, so feeling much better. cheers! PTF
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OTC is the answer. A decentralized network of exchangers big and small with different types of tertiary market services. Right now it may seem inconvenient, but with enough infrastructure it'll be even easier than the current system, albeit the spreads are likely to be higher, but the anonymity property drastically higher, making less important the concept of disguising traffic on the blockchain.
localbitcoin, bitcoin-otc, tradebitcoin are just a few clearnet examples. I expect to see hidden services offering the same functions when those clearnet sites are attacked.
This will be part of a greater evolution, where vendors find it much better turnaround time on restocking inventory because they can go to a huge set of entities for exchange, using a thousand different methods. Don't think 1 solution, think an entire kaleidoscope of them.
Unless of course, there aren't millions of poorly paid, intelligent well educated young people out there willing to work for decent money without tax and nearly zero risk of getting caught.
So you see it all comes together, sooner or later. We are at the *perfect* spot in the economic cycle.
I am not suggesting we be passive observers. No Sir! I'm saying this is mother fucking Gold Rush time. We are going to construct the bridges, canals and roads for this new Industrial Revolution on the Black Markets, using 21st century technologies. In the future our financial markets will have the equivalent of vast container ships moving product, currency and information, for today we are small but tomorrow we will rule the coming century. The Black Market is simply exploding in size, all over the world in every sector, SR is simply a drop in the ocean and we represent the first group of people to realize the practical application of cryptocurrencies for placing a financial foundation underneath it. According to economists, although developed GDP growth has slowed down in the last 50 years, the black markets have accelerated, becoming once more the true face of "actual existing" capitalism.
Today's vendors and market participants will be tomorrow's Rockefellers and Rothschilds. You just have to grab a shovel and slam it, this is our country and there's gold in 'em hills.
You don't need to believe it, but I do and I'm going to make it happen by the whatever means necessary.
It doesn't matter if Bitcoin itself fails. It doesn't matter if SR fails. Only the Network matters. The supply and demand. That is what drives all this technological progress, little else. If a roadblock is dropped in our way, we'll build bypasses and fairly squiggly roads. It's not a matter of "belief", it's a practical matter of making money and recognizing arbitrage points.
Pine, you continue to impress us with your commentary. Exciting times indeed ^_^ EnterTheMatrix™ can see huge growth in the black market and crypto currencies.
Matrix 8)
I am very bullish on bitcoin and other crypto currencies as long as black markets exist.
$12 a coin is gonna look so cheap this time next year, you can take that to the bank.
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great thank you! Makes me tighten my network thanks +1
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OTC is the answer. A decentralized network of exchangers big and small with different types of tertiary market services. Right now it may seem inconvenient, but with enough infrastructure it'll be even easier than the current system, albeit the spreads are likely to be higher, but the anonymity property drastically higher, making less important the concept of disguising traffic on the blockchain.
localbitcoin, bitcoin-otc, tradebitcoin are just a few clearnet examples. I expect to see hidden services offering the same functions when those clearnet sites are attacked.
This will be part of a greater evolution, where vendors find it much better turnaround time on restocking inventory because they can go to a huge set of entities for exchange, using a thousand different methods. Don't think 1 solution, think an entire kaleidoscope of them.
Unless of course, there aren't millions of poorly paid, intelligent well educated young people out there willing to work for decent money without tax and nearly zero risk of getting caught.
So you see it all comes together, sooner or later. We are at the *perfect* spot in the economic cycle.
I am not suggesting we be passive observers. No Sir! I'm saying this is mother fucking Gold Rush time. We are going to construct the bridges, canals and roads for this new Industrial Revolution on the Black Markets, using 21st century technologies. In the future our financial markets will have the equivalent of vast container ships moving product, currency and information, for today we are small but tomorrow we will rule the coming century. The Black Market is simply exploding in size, all over the world in every sector, SR is simply a drop in the ocean and we represent the first group of people to realize the practical application of cryptocurrencies for placing a financial foundation underneath it. According to economists, although developed GDP growth has slowed down in the last 50 years, the black markets have accelerated, becoming once more the true face of "actual existing" capitalism.
Today's vendors and market participants will be tomorrow's Rockefellers and Rothschilds. You just have to grab a shovel and slam it, this is our country and there's gold in 'em hills.
You don't need to believe it, but I do and I'm going to make it happen by the whatever means necessary.
It doesn't matter if Bitcoin itself fails. It doesn't matter if SR fails. Only the Network matters. The supply and demand. That is what drives all this technological progress, little else. If a roadblock is dropped in our way, we'll build bypasses and fairly squiggly roads. It's not a matter of "belief", it's a practical matter of making money and recognizing arbitrage points.
Pine, you continue to impress us with your commentary. Exciting times indeed ^_^ EnterTheMatrix™ can see huge growth in the black market and crypto currencies.
Matrix 8)
We second this and once again reach out o the stars and scream "merry us Pine"
Your posts give us the goosebumps :)
we can not fathom where we will be in one year as we have such wonderful minds and entrepreneurs here on SR!!
Woohoo!
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So in reference to the question about all international post being screened...
All post that will be on an airplane at some point will go through an x-ray as explosives are organic and no one wants that on their plane. So even if it is not scanned at the receiving end it will be scanned at the sending end. All mail coming into Australia gets put through an x-ray before customs releases it. Even if you don't believe that you should at least be prepared as such.
The best way to avoid detection is to try and blend into the surroundings. Imagine a conveyor belt with a huge screen and a team working 24/7 to scan all the items. They can still only report on what they see with their eyes. You want to try and blend into the other organic material (colour orange) also passing through (hint: paper and clothes are organic).
Therefore if you are sending powder, make sure it is packed down as thinly as possible. This will be less likely to be pulled out of the flow for observation. From this I would consider powder safer to be sent than pills. Think about how the latter would show up on an x-ray.
Also, if customs finds something they have no choice but to pass it into the AFP. The AFP officer can then decide whether it is worth the trouble of chasing up.
Of course all of this is hearsay and and third hand information (as everything else on this forum is) but it seems logical to me.
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So in reference to the question about all international post being screened...
All post that will be on an airplane at some point will go through an x-ray as explosives are organic and no one wants that on their plane. So even if it is not scanned at the receiving end it will be scanned at the sending end. All mail coming into Australia gets put through an x-ray before customs releases it. Even if you don't believe that you should at least be prepared as such.
The best way to avoid detection is to try and blend into the surroundings. Imagine a conveyor belt with a huge screen and a team working 24/7 to scan all the items. They can still only report on what they see with their eyes. You want to try and blend into the other organic material (colour orange) also passing through (hint: paper and clothes are organic).
Therefore if you are sending powder, make sure it is packed down as thinly as possible. This will be less likely to be pulled out of the flow for observation. From this I would consider powder safer to be sent than pills. Think about how the latter would show up on an x-ray.
Also, if customs finds something they have no choice but to pass it into the AFP. The AFP officer can then decide whether it is worth the trouble of chasing up.
Of course all of this is hearsay and and third hand information (as everything else on this forum is) but it seems logical to me.
If every package got X-rayed at least twice then nothing would get through. The amount of mail vastly outweighs the resources and you need to consider USPS is going bankrupt and we are a country of 22 million who orders everything from overseas.
Regarding a bomb if you were going to do that then you would want the bomb to go off in the plane and you either need to remotely set it off or set a timer meaning you would have to know when the package is in the air. Im sure its pretty conclusive from all these shipping threads that its impossible to know exactly where a package is at any time within the postal system.
BC
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BC you can be assured that anything going on an airplane will be x-rayed for organic (explosive) material. That includes domestic flights (your express post from Sydney to Perth) or international mail (Amsterdam to Darwin).
Whether or not it all gets scanned at the receiving end is up for debate.
Either way - prepare your packages to beat xrays. Simple as that.
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I am pretty sure it is all x-rayed but that people are not viewing it 24/7
Regarding a bomb if you were going to do that then you would want the bomb to go off in the plane and you either need to remotely set it off or set a timer meaning you would have to know when the package is in the air.
Or you could rig it up with an altimeter
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"Go forth and educate yourself and anyone who needs it. Lean PGP, use it, teach others, encourage the spirit of community and helping others and victory shall be ours."
EXACTLY, THEREFORE, I HAVE TO BE A LITTLE OFF TOPIC HERE.
There is a major SECURITY BUG in TOR and I still see that a lot of the forum members here haven't fixed it yet. SO YOU HAVE TO DO IT NOW:
CAUTION: TOR Security Bug! [HOW TO FIX IT!]
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=46439.0
Spread that link please, for everyone's security. Maybe put it into you signature (you can copy&paste mine).
/offtopic end (sorry, but I had to share this)
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If every piece of domestic mail is x-rayed for organic material - and I'm not sure what you mean by organic (explosive)... do you mean they're only searching for explosive material or all organic material or what? Because I can assure you there would be a hell of a lot less smoke in my lungs and powder in my nose than there is if that were true.
No Moksha, not all mail goes through an x-ray. Snail mail often is transported only via trucks and therefore is not scanned. I'm only talking about things that go on an aeroplane like express post between cities. This goes on a plane and therefore it is scanned for explosives. This however is a security focus not a drugs focus unlike customs.
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BC you can be assured that anything going on an airplane will be x-rayed for organic (explosive) material. That includes domestic flights (your express post from Sydney to Perth) or international mail (Amsterdam to Darwin).
Whether or not it all gets scanned at the receiving end is up for debate.
Either way - prepare your packages to beat xrays. Simple as that.
Exactly what mok said. X-rays are impossible to beat except with lead which is a huge red flag and will have your package searched anyway. If you know any other way please feel free to enlighten us.
BC
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I am pretty sure it is all x-rayed but that people are not viewing it 24/7
Regarding a bomb if you were going to do that then you would want the bomb to go off in the plane and you either need to remotely set it off or set a timer meaning you would have to know when the package is in the air.
Or you could rig it up with an altimeter
why would they bother x-raying if nobody is watching? seems like a huge waste of money
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BC, lead is useless unless its about 2 inches thick (dont quote 2", but something like that).
check your periodic table of elements, check the density of the matter you want to hide your gear in, then check the xray specs of the machine they use at customs ;)
there are filters where they change from substance to substance, ie, organic, non-organic etc..
its all about the penetration bro.. you should know that ;)
their shit is strong enough to pass through lead. with variables ofcourse on the thickness of the substance, and the strength of the machine, (what KVP the machine is capable of)
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SeriousChemistry, a simple google search shows that this bug has been known for half a year and if you'd read the thread you posted you'd known that it's been fixed for half a year too.
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/5741
If you're saying that it's not fixed please tell us how to reproduce the bug (but do so in your thread plz).
Sorry but I think you have no idea what you're talking about.
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I am pretty sure it is all x-rayed but that people are not viewing it 24/7
Regarding a bomb if you were going to do that then you would want the bomb to go off in the plane and you either need to remotely set it off or set a timer meaning you would have to know when the package is in the air.
Or you could rig it up with an altimeter
what if your package was taken by road? What if it got taken to a certain altitude without being on a plane? I dont think many people want to blow up Mail planes anyway as the maximum casualties you will achieve is 2-3 people.
BC
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BC, lead is useless unless its about 2 inches thick (dont quote 2", but something like that).
check your periodic table of elements, check the density of the matter you want to hide your gear in, then check the xray specs of the machine they use at customs ;)
there are filters where they change from substance to substance, ie, organic, non-organic etc..
its all about the penetration bro.. you should know that ;)
their shit is strong enough to pass through lead. with variables ofcourse on the thickness of the substance, and the strength of the machine, (what KVP the machine is capable of)
Can anybody elaborate further on this?
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Interesting post (OP).
A friend of mine has a policeman friend from high school that likes drugs. Even policemen can feel oppressed by the drug war.
Some of them are probably on our side (admittedly, not many).
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Some of them are probably on our side (admittedly, not many).
You'd be surprised :P
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In regards to 100% which I always thought was true I'm actually thinking a little differently.
I order a lot of bodybuilding supplements from overseas as Australia's prices are dramatically more and with the strong aussie
dollar your mad not to. Anyway all the products I import are legal but customs dont know that. They are tubs of powders and pills.
Every package that comes from the US is opened and inspected from customs according to the green label, however none are
opened from the UK.
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I am very bullish on bitcoin and other crypto currencies as long as black markets exist.
$12 a coin is gonna look so cheap this time next year, you can take that to the bank.
$46 AUD to 1 BTC, Crazy! Wish I had of invested.. like many others wish they had too.
In regards to 100% which I always thought was true I'm actually thinking a little differently.
I order a lot of bodybuilding supplements from overseas as Australia's prices are dramatically more and with the strong aussie
dollar your mad not to. Anyway all the products I import are legal but customs dont know that. They are tubs of powders and pills.
Every package that comes from the US is opened and inspected from customs according to the green label, however none are
opened from the UK.
When you say opened, do you mean just the box to see what the Tubs/pills are? Or actually open the tubs (ie: whey/protein powder) etc ?
Wonder if OP is still around... Would be good to get some more inside info.
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Good looking out!!!
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Glad to see so many people have read this :), I have been made aware that a new, more detailed report on BC/SR is due to be distributed among Australian LE sometime soon, I will strive to post as much information about it as possible if I get the opportunity to read it, In the mean time, I am going to attempt to digitize and distribute the first report to a few members of the community who have kindly offered their assistance in spreading the information, Until then, be safe everyone and keep and eye on the forums. I will continue to post relevant counter-Intel as I get it, thankfully the LEO's in my family are concerned with combating real crimes on the darknet, mainly CEM (Child Exploitation Material) They actually believe that drugs should be legalized and have no problem with SR (especially now the armory is closed, that was a smart move.), This is why they share information about BC/SR with me freely. If only more LEO had the same mindset...
I really appreciate everything you have shared here.. it was informative and inspirational. It all seems a little too convenient, though. It's exactly what a lot of people would want to hear. This worries me. I always look at things from an objective point of view, both sides of the coin, if you will. Don't take that the wrong way. The downfall of anonymity is you can trust everyone and no one at the same time.
Perhaps this will make me into a successful patron of the SR.
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Thanks for the read OP!