Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Un-invited on July 25, 2012, 03:50 am
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So I should be receiving my first package very soon. I'm going to have to sign for it.
Here's what I'm thinking about doing:
Signing for it and then just putting it in a pile of mail that's been accumulating without opening it for a week.
Is this an "ok" strategy for deniability?
Also, I bought off SR at home, instead of a public wi-fi area, should I be concerned? I was planning on wiping my hard drive tonight.
Am I fucked before I even started?
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Using someone elses WiFi (from a random location!) is better than not, but using Tor by itself is pretty safe too.
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So I should be receiving my first package very soon. I'm going to have to sign for it.
Here's what I'm thinking about doing:
Signing for it and then just putting it in a pile of mail that's been accumulating without opening it for a week.
Is this an "ok" strategy for deniability?
Also, I bought off SR at home, instead of a public wi-fi area, should I be concerned? I was planning on wiping my hard drive tonight.
Am I fucked before I even started?
Sounds like an aright plan to check for LE. I`d say with it if this concerns you. As for security, you should be booting from a USB, not your hardrive. Internet connection shouldn`t be a problem if you use tor correctly and take other security measures. If you need further help and advise contact these people.
Pine, I assume she`s a girl. She manages the PGP club that teaches how to encrypt/decrypt keys for messaging.
Guru and LouisCyphre for anything else.
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So I should be receiving my first package very soon. I'm going to have to sign for it.
you should never source from somebody who requires a signature unless you have a fake id po box. if the pack is intercepted and a controlled delivery done, you'll be signing your life away
Thats why you always use a fake sign. ::) They cannot use it in court and you can whip out your bank records of your signature to back it up.
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You can just scribble a name.. Signing for it means nothing. That alone will not get you in any trouble. You can sign for a package and not know what it is.
Meaning just because you sign for it means nothing. You signing for it does not mean in any way you knew what was inside the package.
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You can just scribble a name.. Signing for it means nothing. That alone will not get you in any trouble. You can sign for a package and not know what it is.
Meaning just because you sign for it means nothing. You signing for it does not mean in any way you knew what was inside the package.
Obviously it does or they wouldnt go through the trouble of disguising a cop as a mailman just to get your signature. But they dont always do this, sometimes they'll just let it be delivered and wait for you to open it. Either way dont sign for something you know doesnt require it.
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You can just scribble a name.. Signing for it means nothing. That alone will not get you in any trouble. You can sign for a package and not know what it is.
Meaning just because you sign for it means nothing. You signing for it does not mean in any way you knew what was inside the package.
Obviously it does or they wouldnt go through the trouble of disguising a cop as a mailman just to get your signature. But they dont always do this, sometimes they'll just let it be delivered and wait for you to open it. Either way dont sign for something you know doesnt require it.
The signing has ZERO to do with it. The controlled delivery has NOTHING to do with getting your signature.Sorry you are just wrong. And unlike you.... I KNOW what I am talking about and not just guessing or assuming.
And I should say it all depends what drugs and how much you are getting. The Op simply asked about signing for a package. On eop of that it is his first delivery and he is in no way going to get a controlled delivery his first package. HE probably wouldn't get one on his 100th package.
I know there are plenty of paranoid( and non paranoid)people that will say this is just a totally stupid idea. I am not here to debate that. I am here to tell him that signing for a package will alone not get him thrown in jail.
Neither would signing in to tor from his home instead of a public Wi-fi.
Also it would make a difference if he was in USA. If he was getting it shipped from inside the USA.
Also I would like to add that there is ZERO reasons to sign for a package in the USA from the USA.
But the majority of people in here are going to say never to sign for anything. So is SR. And though I think that is a good idea, I do not think him signing for this 1 package is a big deal. Nor do I think it is a big deal to use Tor from your house.
But in fact you should do neither.
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yeah, this is an armed beaucracy were talking about, signatures are like the end all of confirmations to them. Go sign "stolen" in place of your name when you're checking out at the grocery and see if that gets rejected....its not your name or sig or even if its your package that matters, its the fact your providing a written confirmation of receipt.
You know the reason they do that is cause if they didnt they would have absolutely no way to pin mail order crimes on anyone.
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Bottom line...He shouldn't sign...but for his first purchase this one time he will be just fine... you agree?
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from the experience of thousands of parcels i can tell you that it makes no differnce at all
if a ounce of heroin/coke/weed is followed to your house ,you will be busted with or without a signature
controlled deliveries are only for big special orders (teams of detectives are expensive ) so youre already fucked
if there is a van full of cops outside ,anything worth under around 2000 usd gets a love letter
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Anything under $2,000 gets a love letter? Wow awesome so I can break up my $1,000,000 shipments into $2,000 packages and swarm them to my fifty workers who can then break them down into $100 shipments and nobody will ever go to jail! So glad I have this awesome intel because now I can traffic millions of dollars worth of drugs every month and none of us have to worry! So fucking awesome man thanks for the sweet tip. I will make sure to send with signature on all of my packs too because it doesn't really matter sweet. What about Tor and GPG they are such a pain in the ass it is probably fine to go without them anyway because nobody really gives a fuck right? I mean people use drugs everyday who cares??
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So I should be receiving my first package very soon. I'm going to have to sign for it.
Here's what I'm thinking about doing:
Signing for it and then just putting it in a pile of mail that's been accumulating without opening it for a week.
Is this an "ok" strategy for deniability?
Also, I bought off SR at home, instead of a public wi-fi area, should I be concerned? I was planning on wiping my hard drive tonight.
Am I fucked before I even started?
Sign for it. As soon as the carrier dismisses himself, use a permanent marker and write "Return to Sender" on the package without ever opening it. They will usually give you up to half an hour if its controlled to bust in, hoping that youve opened the mail and received the contraband. Id wait a few days before opening a package that I had to sign for.
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It's felonious amounts, of course, but personal stash = felony here.
War on Drugs is absolute shit.
Here in America, we can't let you ingest things of your own choosing because we think they're harmful, but you can eat McDonald's cheeseburgers until you are 400 lbs.
Really, the only reason I ordered from a vendor that requires a signature is because they weren't overseas and offered express shipping..
And when you're ordering LSD and it's 105F/ 40.5C +, you don't want it riding on a mail truck for a week or longer until it gets here.
If I don't go to jail for the rest of my life (will update) I will wait until it's winter to place another order with a non-signature vendor, it's not worth the anxiety.
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The only way you are going to get busted for domestic LSD is if you ordered from LE or are already being watched for some reason
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As soon as the carrier dismisses himself, use a permanent marker and write "Return to Sender" on the package without ever opening it.
I read this before and I thought, "who puts Return to Sender on package addressed to them that they haven't opened?" I mean, normal human behavior if you're receiving non-illicit mail would be "omg packages" or throw it in the pile of mail you've been ignoring.
Does it offer protection in a court of law to put "Return to Sender" on the package?
The only way you are going to get busted for domestic LSD is if you ordered from LE or are already being watched for some reason
It's from Canada, so it's still going through customs. I'm getting an order from Netherlands too, so all of a sudden getting mail from out of the country was the only thing I was worried about flagging me. Otherwise, I'm a good law abiding citizen and have nothing to be watched for... My lame ass doesn't even have a traffic ticket on my record. I'm not going to worry about it anymore though. I will just hope for the best and if I get fucked, it was my fault, I deserve it. Survival of the fittest applies to the internet as well.
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As soon as the carrier dismisses himself, use a permanent marker and write "Return to Sender" on the package without ever opening it.
I read this before and I thought, "who puts Return to Sender on package addressed to them that they haven't opened?" I mean, normal human behavior if you're receiving non-illicit mail would be "omg packages" or throw it in the pile of mail you've been ignoring.
Does it offer protection in a court of law to put "Return to Sender" on the package?
Well until its open you have no knowledge of whats in it. It implies that you had no intention of opening it in the first place.
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So I should be receiving my first package very soon. I'm going to have to sign for it.
you should never source from somebody who requires a signature unless you have a fake id po box. if the pack is intercepted and a controlled delivery done, you'll be signing your life away
I honestly think a fake ID P.O. Box is such a horrible idea. Especially if you're using the site for buying products for personal use. I'm pretty sure you'd be worse off having a fake government ID, and committing mail fraud, and whatever else vs. just getting caught with a small quantity of drugs getting mailed to your house. I don't have any evidence for this, and it's just a guess, but it seems pretty reasonable to me. Especially since you'd be going in and out of the P.O. all the time to pick shit up. And if you get caught for BOTH fraud, and getting drugs in the mail... well then you're probably totally fucked.
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its pretty obvious you dont ship drugs day in ,day out
I have been doing it for years and controlled deliveries are almost as rare as unicorns
there is no resources to send teams of police after small time punks and i have seen
20,000 valium 10s being seized without a controlled delivery even though we expected it
believe what you like ,cover your webcam with tape ,they are watching you right now dont forget to wear the tinfoil hat ;)
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I honestly think a fake ID P.O. Box is such a horrible idea.
Definitely. Commit a felony and then draw attention to the felony by committing another felony, thats a winning solution.
War on Drugs is absolute shit. Here in America, we can't let you ingest things of your own choosing because we think they're harmful, but you can eat McDonald's cheeseburgers until you are 400 lbs.
Because eating McDonald's cheeseburgers until you are 400lb's makes you a complacent slave, therefore its alright.
Sign for it. As soon as the carrier dismisses himself, use a permanent marker and write "Return to Sender" on the package without ever opening it.
If you didnt want it why did you sign for it? Now if you receive a package without signing for it and do that then you have better case. From that legal blurb posted on here it seems like they are just trying to paint a guilty picture for the judge, so as long as you dont act guilty and dont do anything to imply that you have any idea whats in the package or that you even were expecting one then you have created reasonable doubt.
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Anything under $2,000 gets a love letter? Wow awesome so I can break up my $1,000,000 shipments into $2,000 packages and swarm them to my fifty workers who can then break them down into $100 shipments and nobody will ever go to jail! So glad I have this awesome intel because now I can traffic millions of dollars worth of drugs every month and none of us have to worry! So fucking awesome man thanks for the sweet tip. I will make sure to send with signature on all of my packs too because it doesn't really matter sweet. What about Tor and GPG they are such a pain in the ass it is probably fine to go without them anyway because nobody really gives a fuck right? I mean people use drugs everyday who cares??
Sarcasm? :)
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So whatever happened. Did you get your goods safely?
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Am I the only one who read the only proper legal information in this entire thread? Shannon's intel tells you exactly the bare minimum of what the police need in order to have probably cause of illegal activity. PROBABLE CAUSE FOR ARREST. Therefore, yes RxKing, even the first fucking purchase is enough for him to get arrested. If there's drugs in the package, and an officer gets a signature from the receiver(NOT THE PERSON IT WAS ADDRESSED TO, BUT WHOEVER ACCEPTS THE PACKAGE), then they have enough cause for an ARREST. Writing RTS may save your ass from a conviction months later in court, but your ass is still getting hauled down to booking.
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Anything under $2,000 gets a love letter? Wow awesome so I can break up my $1,000,000 shipments into $2,000 packages and swarm them to my fifty workers who can then break them down into $100 shipments and nobody will ever go to jail! So glad I have this awesome intel because now I can traffic millions of dollars worth of drugs every month and none of us have to worry! So fucking awesome man thanks for the sweet tip. I will make sure to send with signature on all of my packs too because it doesn't really matter sweet. What about Tor and GPG they are such a pain in the ass it is probably fine to go without them anyway because nobody really gives a fuck right? I mean people use drugs everyday who cares??
Sarcasm? :)
I think of kmf as the Dr Gregory House of the Silk Road. Genius, but like a bear with a thorn in his paw whenever he reads a "does not compute" comment on here, I still remember the 'personal use' post :D
On signing packages, don't. Completely irrespective of what the law says, because even if it were neutral on the matter, you should imagine how it looks/sounds to a judge or jury. They are going to find it very easy to adopt a discrete state or black and white attitude: signing package = guilty, not signing package = maybe not. It's just cognitively easier than running through all the possible permutations of how you might not be guilty.
Yes, according to the Western Ideal of Justice, you are innocent until proven guilty. But I and others can tell you that in practice juries and even judges behave as if the opposite were true. The technical term for citizens who go into a court room expecting the justice-truth-freedom combo, is, ah, naive.
Even the police would agree with this, listen to the police officer in the famous 'Don't talk to the police' video on youtube to understand why. If you're black and in the dock, well then that's strike one. If you start to use street slang at any point or look like you walked in off the street wearing your casuals, then that's strike two. If you have so much as a smidgeon of evidence against you or a uniformed officer pointing the finger at you as a state's witness after those two strikes, then that is strike three in the minds of most juries and judges. You can now say goodbye to the rest of your natural life on the flimsiest of charges.
The Western legal system, used to be quite good at one point in history. But it has become gradually more and more corrupt over time. I don't mean in the sense of passing around bribes, I mean in the sense of adhering to the ideal it's supposed to be backing i.e. the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter, what I call 'official corruption'. There is an overall decline in the quality of judicial rulings. Many of them are just a sick joke. I once saw a completely inebriated judge slurring his words as he self righteously passed down a decade on some kids selling some homemade weed. Lives wrecked forever. The majority of the population have infrequent contact with the system, so they are only aware of it in a vague abstract way. Frankly, they have a Hollywood version of the legal system. You can go to prison, up to a year, for merely possessing a bong with the *intent* to smoke weed in some states. Even I had to blink twice reading it, I never saw a thought crime written down so clearly in legal prose before.
Yes, technically we are outlaws I suppose, but I swear to God we almost had more justice in the days they just used to swing a rope and let you hang. Today the justice system is little more than a mechanical routine for the Cartels to crop the competition. If you think I'm joking, you should be aware that many of the 'Just Say No' campaigns and their ilk in schools are sponsored indirectly by the Cartels. The religious nuts and social conservatives cannot quite comprehend the scale of the thing, they just think it's wild that so many donations to 'save the children' are coming in for them to make colorful bracelets and powerpoint presentations. Must be Jesus H Christ sending them supplies from God or something lol.
As for the DEA, they are the cat's paw available to the highest bidder, at the highest level. Their, let's call them business practices, because that is what they are, in South America amount to state terrorism on an epic scale that the majority of Americans are completely ignorant of, or worse, simply apathetic. The DEA contracts large numbers of soldiers, they don't usually do the dirty work themselves, they just sponsor 'results'. Huge amounts of cancer causing defoliants sprayed over farmlands and villages, the land sowed with landmines, village leaders assassinated or beaten to a pulp to stay in line, journalists tortured or otherwise silenced. And the American media? Not a peep. There's a human interest piece after the endlessly recycled daily news (24/7 news, yet it is 7 minutes of news, 24 hours per day) featuring a funny squirrel using a jet ski after the news on CNN, or perhaps cats wearing pieces of bread. But, you know, for the Greater Good. To protect American teenagers from their own choices you understand. Because Americans are more human than dirty little farmer savages grubbing about to make some coca leaf to send their kids to school to learn to read and write, apparently.
If you cannot believe it is so decadent, then you should remind yourself of what the word Cartel actually means. Cartels are mechanisms for producing artificial scarcities in markets. Influencing the community watch organizations is the logical and most pragmatic step of doing that whilst maintaining the main routes like a castles inside moats while the rest of the countryside burns. There is more evidence for this than you can shake a stick at, look at the prices for all major drug categories. In nearly every case since Nixon, the price of drugs has steadily, linearly, fallen, indicating extremely stable output and increasing yields. Simultaneously, drug quality has also fallen, drastically in some cases like cocaine. More drugs, less pure. The quantity of money is simply colossal, there's simply no other word for it.
That is why the Silk Road. There is no other way forward to take control and bring balance to the world, no matter what side of the drug war you are on. The market must prevail. If it does not, the penalty on both sides for possessing a lack of imagination will be that the real Drug War will ultimately come home to America. I know the DEA in general believes it is hardened, battle tested as it were. They are in a delirium with respect to cause and consequence , like aircraft pilots bombing at 20,000 feet. They are like the British and the colonies, boys playing at war in the peacetime, all is forgotten once you clock off at 5PM or come back from a mission in the tropics.
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Ah pine... I have learned so much from you :)
Today, I was doing my new routine of analyzing news trends(practice I adopted because of you), and it looks to me as though there's a lot of focus from LE on busting people importing RCs from China. Now after reading this post of yours I can imagine the Cartels calling their LEabradors in to chase away the new kids on the block. Major raids been going down on legal synthetic sellers too ever since the new ban.
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Ah pine... I have learned so much from you :)
Today, I was doing my new routine of analyzing news trends(practice I adopted because of you), and it looks to me as though there's a lot of focus from LE on busting people importing RCs from China. Now after reading this post of yours I can imagine the Cartels calling their LEabradors in to chase away the new kids on the block. Major raids been going down on legal synthetic sellers too ever since the new ban.
Yes, although in this particular case they aren't Mexican or South American Cartels, but the Pharmaceutical Cartels like Johnson & Johnson or Glaxosmithkline. They collaborate on a huge scale with government officials at Customs and family doctor associations etc in order to prevent generic (cheaper but equivalent drugs) from being imported either by western enterprises or consumers.
They will claim these drugs are counterfeit, but the reality is that 99% of the time the Indian and Chinese corporations producing the generics are the exact same corporations that produce the regular versions of the RC drug. i.e. these drugs are only counterfeit in the sense that they are not paying royalties to a company to make them. Because they roll off the exact same pill presses and contain the exact same active ingredients.
Basically it is a giant conspiracy against the consumer. It's actually a much bigger problem for the world than the illegal drug trade.
If this were actually an argument against Intellectual Property being violated, then I would have some sympathy for the western pharma. It is not cheap to produce basic pharma research etc.
But this has got absolutely nothing to do with intellectual property, that's a different problem entirely, as evidenced again and again by the Western governments extending patents beyond reason or essentially prohibiting the use of generics by mandating the use of slightly adjusted RCs (these are "copycat drugs", the company has lost the patent to a drug, but tweaks the forumulae slightly to produce a drug with the same effect but that can be registered under a new patent for another couple of decades, effectively extending patents into infinity). They are trying to have their cake and eat it.
The Chinese and Indian corporations have it right, they are the true capitalists in this market, not the western corporations.
I'm all for capitalists to make profits, that is why I am one. But when you have a company making 500,000% profit in the difference it takes to make the pill and what it retails at, for decades, then there is something corrupting the market. There is no competition for such a profit margin? Really? That is highly suspect.
I salute the black market enterprises of South East Asia, they are making the world a better place by being pirates. The pharmaceutical industry needs an almighty kick up the ass, on both price + innovation for all our sakes, from the poor of Africa to the pensioners in America spending a 1/3 of their income on drugs.
Lastly; the law on synthetic 'legal highs' is completely irrelevant. The DEA and Customs are both a law unto themselves. They took a guy who wrote a book on MDMA down (Strike) with absolutely no evidence that he knew if he was supplying lab equipment to clandestine laboratories or not. Similarly, Dr Shulgin, a scientist working for the DEA who invented many drugs in his laboratory, was raided by the DEA on literally no grounds whatsoever.
This is not about right or wrong in the Law, this is about the free market vs arbitrary coercion. If I got taken down I would begin a hunger strike until I was made a political prisoner because that is the reality.