Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: gracevan3569 on July 18, 2012, 04:48 pm
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Been around for a few weeks and have made a few successful purchases. Not a veteran by any means, but I feel like I have done my homework here and I continue to peruse the forums for various informative topics that I believe will keep me safe, help me make wise decisions and ultimately allow me to enjoy my experience here. I think that the more people do this type of stuff, the harder it will be to run a scam.
Having said that, it seems that more are popping up every day. They will continue to do so as SR gains in popularity and new members treat SR casually and allow their drug impulse to drive their actions. I believe we are all susceptible to making bad decision here, if for no other reason than we are purchasing the drugs that we enjoy. It has a way of getting you so excited that you make a bad leap of faith, not a business decision. And make no mistake, this is a business. It can be a community, but only if we understand that the same rules of business that apply in the real world, apply double here.
So, having said that, I decided to jot down a few "rules" of safe buying and selling that seem to be pretty logical. I welcome feedback and additions.
Buyers
1) There truly should be a "Terms and Conditions" page that everyone must read when creating an account. If you label it in huge font that reads, "YOU WILL GET RIPPED OFF OR ARRESTED" people might actually read it.
2) "Caveat Emptor." "If it sounds to good to be true, it is." "There is a sucker born every minute." "A fool and his money are destined to be separated." All of these phrases have been around for generations (in some iterations - for centuries). Why would you think SR is different? Behave accordingly.
3) Think about how much effort you put in to get to SR safely. Think about how much effort you put in to get BTC safely. Think about the time you put in to learn encryption, protect your hard drive and establish a safe mailing address. Now think about how quickly you make a decision to buy from a new or sketchy vendor just because they have a great price on a drug you love. Does it make sense?
4) Look for vendors who have feedback that means something. Does it only say "5/5 FE" or does it say "5/5 I love this vendor, everything was great and I will be doing business again?" That is an easy way to see if the vendor is boosting stats through lottos or raffles. It also is a good way to see if they are doing a massive sale and requiring everyone to finalize (which means they could disappear soon too). If the feedback has substance to it, then it is a good sign that the vendor is trustworthy.
5) Use the forums. Read about your vendor, but also read about the drug area you're interested in. Then, read the forums for scams and thoughts on protecting yourself. Become part of the community by interacting with other folks on the Road.
6) Your first few purchases should be of a size that you will be OK if something goes wrong. Never make your first purchase with a new vendor. I chose to make a couple smaller purchases from different established vendors to minimize risk for my first go. It work very well.
7) New buyrs may need to FE, so use a trusted vendor. If you use a new vendor, do not FE. You are both new and everyone has to prove themselves here.
8 ) Don't message a vendor thinking you are Mr. Fucking Sly asking them to hook you up if you go out side the system. The system is there for a reason and you are not smarter than the people who set it up. At the same time, don't be Mr. Dumb Shit and fall for a vendor messaging you for the same reason or allow them to sweeten the deal for an FE.
9) Stop allowing your drug impulses to control your actions. We get all happy, our brain starts lighting up because some vendor is going to corner the market on your DOC. Example: The vendor says LSD is about love and sharing so they are going tackle the market with a special offer $350 sheets, but only if you act now! Tell your brain to shut the fuck up and see rule 2.
Vendors
I wouldn't presume to tell established vendors (or any vendor for that matter) how to run their business. However, the following list seems logical to me to help buyers be wary of scams.
1) New vendors should never enter SR with claims of taking over a market. That kind of bragging is a red flag. Anyone with the skills and product to do that would let the business speak for itself. All the rest are just trying to lure you in.
2) Price to good to be true? Never forget this is about business. Business means profit. This is an illegal activity that carries stiff penalties, especially for vendors. A vendor selling at a price point just lower than the others is understandable. A huge mark down is a red flag.
3) A new vendor opening his/her market with bulk orders or offering every product under the sun is a red flag. Like a new buyer, a new vendor needs to prove themselves. Be wary.
4) A new vendor has no idea just how difficult running their business on SR will be. Taking orders, answering questions, packaging, shipping, escrow, resolving issues, etc. Be wary of bragging by a new vendor about how amazing your experience will be. They don't know. The may be trying to get you to let your guard down.
5) FInalizing early (FE) - It is against SR policy for a new vendor to require FE. If you're a new buyer, so what? They are a new vendor. They must also prove themselves. Don't do it.
6) Overly wordy stories about who the vendor is and how they got the product is a red flag. When I first read the "Kat LSD" thread, her story was so detailed and loaded with fun anecdotes about who they were and how awesome it was to come across books of acid. Fuck that. A liar uses more words then necessary to explain their lies.
That's what I got for now. I may come back and add or edit. Please feel free to comment. I hope this is helpful to SR. It pisses me off to watch a scam go down. I watched the Kat scam from the beginning and new how it would end. It was painful to know all of those well meaning buyers who got so excited, were going to get jacked.
Again, I'm nobody special. Just been observing and want to see SR flourish.
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I'm a new buyer, brand new. I did my first cart, and sent a note, he advertised... good reviews, but can't get him to respond, or anything... I am so fucking nervous, but the guy had good reviews. What rule applies to what I am feeling, or am i being paranoid, because all I hear about people being ripped off and newbies suck.
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I'm a new buyer, brand new. I did my first cart, and sent a note, he advertised... good reviews, but can't get him to respond, or anything... I am so fucking nervous, but the guy had good reviews. What rule applies to what I am feeling, or am i being paranoid, because all I hear about people being ripped off and newbies suck.
It's good to be nervous, it'll keep you safe. Regarding getting a reply, from my experience and from reading the forums, I would suggest patience. Vendors, particularly popular ones, will get lots of messages. If it hasn't been 24 hours, just chill. You can also tell if he has read you message by looking in the sent folder. Unread messages will be bold.
Has the vendor accepted your order? Did you read his page and know if you will have to FE? IN the end, your first couple of purchases will be a leap of faith so it is best to make small orders. I made a couple of small order from different vendors to ensure I got something and it spread out my risk.
Be patient with the vendor if he is experienced. I think you will find a lot of posts around from new buyers feeling just like you do.
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Good post gracevan +1
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Yep. +1
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Awesome post :) might be a good sticky with some added content from other users. +1
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Great post. I am very new here (signed up for forum just now, actually just to reply to this post) and completely agree with you on all of this. Taking time to read through the forums and protect yourself could make all the difference in making the experience here good or bad, but I also think that a lot of people are just going to see their drug of choice and not think about anything else except getting their hands on it. At least it takes time for most newbies to learn about and acquire BTC, hopefully most will be forced into learning a little about security while learning how to get BTC.
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Thanks all!
I appreciate the positive feedback. I think the list should be common sense, but somehow we all lose that perspective from time-to-time. Anyone with good observations should feel free to add.
It doesn't need to be this list, but SR admins might consider forcing new accounts to read something similar. It might go along way to discourage the reckless behavior that makes it so easy for scammers. Alos, depsite being linked at the bottom of the page, new users don't seem to understand that the forums are here for their protection.
Anyway, scammers piss me off and I thoroughly enjoy what has been created here. It will only get better if we protect it and educate new users (beat it into everyone i need be!) 8)
Keep adding ideas...
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Really awesome post +karma.
Agreed, this should be stickied and implemented as a "terms, conditions and sense" for new sign ups.
It's a work of literary art. :)
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Well done gracevan! You've made the SR experience so much better for the " Buyer beware ".
Thanks much for your efforts.
Demiurgic
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I am so very grateful for posts like this that have helped me figure my way around without having to ask too many questions, make big mistakes, put myself or someone else at risk, or embarrass myself. I have taken a lot of time (2 months) to learn and become as comfortable and informed as possible with the rules. I've spent many years involved in the lifestyle of buying and selling, but I'm getting older and hate chasing the shit down! I can't wait to just get my mail, go back home and do my drugs! I am going to do another day or two of homework and then am taking the plunge this weekend. I really like the idea of doing a few small purchases to see what sticks. I hadn't thought of that :) . So I'm going to get 2-3 purchases behind me this weekend and hopefully one or more works out. So a huge thank you to you gracevan and all the others that have helped new customers like myself, find our way! Take Care!
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Moral of the story: common sense, logic, and gut instincts, collectively known as "street smarts", should rule your buying experience here on the SR. I believe that unless you've been ripped off before, there's no way to develop these skills to a masterful level. You can, however, become well attuned to the warning signs by reading over each and every one of gracevan3569's points several times.
Rule number 6 under vendors, regarding the elaborate stories, really cracks me up. It never fails to amaze me what kind of bullshit personas and stories that people will come up with to steal your money. This {{Kat}} character came on here posing as a little blond hottie pushing some top notch LSD, when in reality "she" is probably a late 30's, virgin, 450 pound, World of Warcraft playing, Flamin' Hot Cheeto eating sociopath who's taking out his rage on innocent people because he never got a prom date in high school and interracial granny porn is the closest that he'll ever get to pussy.
My golden rule is to always assume that you will be ripped off in any transaction involving illicit drugs. The vendor is guilty until proven innocent. This forum should be a valuable tool for you to gather information leading to the proof of a vendor's innocence. Deal only with well established vendors who have large review threads and a loyal following. Forget about dealing with new vendors. If they want to prove themselves, they will send out free samples. This isn't a fucking candy store, fellas. You will lose money if you're not naturally pessimistic about every transaction.
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I'm a complete newb and perhaps not unsurprisingly apprehensive about this whole venture. It's reassuring to know that there are some decent, trust worthy people on this site. Not that I'm going to lower my guard after reading a post like this, if anything; I'm now even more cautious, which I guess was the point.
On a similar note; I'm thoroughly confused about this whole Bit-coin business, and would really appreciate some advice on where to look for information concerning everything bit-coin and security related. I will continue to do my own research of course, but any advice or pointers from experienced users would be very much appreciated.
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I'm a complete newb and perhaps not unsurprisingly apprehensive about this whole venture. It's reassuring to know that there are some decent, trust worthy people on this site. Not that I'm going to lower my guard after reading a post like this, if anything; I'm now even more cautious, which I guess was the point.
On a similar note; I'm thoroughly confused about this whole Bit-coin business, and would really appreciate some advice on where to look for information concerning everything bit-coin and security related. I will continue to do my own research of course, but any advice or pointers from experienced users would be very much appreciated.
To learn how to use Bitcoin anonymously, look here:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=15383.msg234943#msg234943
Mostly it is just common sense, but you can practice/check and do dry runs with all these steps and prove they work for yourself.
Secondly, you need to learn how to use PGP encryption to be truly secure when handing over your address to somebody.
See my sig to join PGP club!
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Been around for a few weeks and have made a few successful purchases. Not a veteran by any means, but I feel like I have done my homework here and I continue to peruse the forum for various informative topics that I believe will keep me safe, help me make wise decisions and ultimately allow me to enjoy my experience here. I think that the more people do this type of stuff, the harder it will be to run a scam.
Having said that, it seems that more are popping up every day. They will continue to as SR gains in popularity and new members treat SR casually and allow their drug impulse drive their actions. I believe we are all susceptible to make bad decision here, if for no other reason than we are purchasing drugs that we enjoy. It has a way of getting you excited so that you make a leap of faith, no a business decision. And make no mistake, that this is a business. It can be a community, but only if we understand that the same rules of business that apply in the real world, apply double here.
So, having said that, I decided to jot down a few "rules" of safe buying and selling that seem to be pretty logical. I welcome feedback and additions.
Buyers
1) There truly should be a "Terms and Conditions" page that everyone must read when creating an account. If you label it in huge font that reads, "YOU WILL GET RIPPED OFF OR ARRESTED" people might actually read it.
2) "Caveat Emptor" "If it sounds to good to be true, it is." "There is a sucker born every minute." "A fool and his money are destined to be separated." All of these phrases have been around for generations (in some iterations for centuries). Why would you think SR is different? Behave accordingly.
3) Think about how much effort you put in to get to SR safely. Think about how much effort you put in to get BTC safely. Think about time you put in to learn encryption, protecting your hard drive and establishing a safe mailing address. Now think about how quickly you make a decision to buy from a vendor just because they have a great price on a drug you love. Does it make sense?
4) Look for vendors who have feedback that means something. Does it say "5/5 FE" or does it say 5/5 I love this vendor, everything was great and I will be doing business again? That is an easy way to see if the vendor is boosting stats through lottos or raffles. It also is a good way to see if they are doing a massive sale and requiring everyone to finalize (which means they could disappear soon too)
5) Use the forums. Read about your vendor, but also read about the drug area your interested in. Then, read the forums for scams and become part of the community.
6) Your first few purchases should be of a size that you will be OK if something goes wrong. Never make your first purchase with a new vendor.
7) Since you are new you may need to FE, so use a trusted vendor. If you use a new vendor, do not FE. You are new, but so are they. Everyone has to prove themselves here.
8) Don't message a vendor thinking you are Mr. Fucking Sly asking them to hook you up if you go out side the system. It is there for a reason and you are not smarter than the people who set it up. At the same time, don't be Mr. Dumb Shit and fall for a vendor messaging you for the same reason or allow them to sweeten the deal for an FE.
9) Stop allowing your drug impulses to control your actions. You get all happy, your brain starts lighting up because some vendor is going to corner the market on LSD. The vendor says LSD is about love and sharing so $350 sheets if you act now! Tell your brain to shut the fuck up and see rule 2.
Vendors
I wouldn't presume to tell established vendors (or any vendor for that matter) how to run their business. However, the following list seems logical to me to help buyers be wary of scams.
1) New vendors should never enter SR with claims of taking over a market. That kind of bragging is a red flag. Anyone with the skills and product to do that would let the business speak for itself. All the rest are just trying to lure you in.
2) Price to good to be true? Never forget this is about business. Business means profit. This is an illegal activity that carry stiff consequences for vendors. A vendor selling at a price point just lower than the others is understandable. A huge mark down is a red fucking flag.
3) A new vendor opening his/her market with bulk orders is a red flag. Like a new buyer, a new vendor needs to prove themselves. Be wary.
4) A new vendor has no idea just how difficult running their business on SR will be. Taking orders, answering questions, packaging, shipping, escrow, resolving issues, etc. Be wary of bragging by a new vendor about how amazing your experience with them will be. They don't know. It's a lure.
5) FE. It is against SR policy for a new vendor to require FE. If your a new buyer, so what? They are a new vendor. They must also prove themselves. Don't do it.
6) Overly wordy stories about who the vendor is and how they got there. When I first read the "Kat LSD" thread, her story was so detailed and full of fun anecdotes about who they were and how they got there. Fuck that. A liar uses more words then necessary to explain their lies.
That's what I got for now. I may come back and add or edit. Please feel free to comment. I hope this is helpful to SR. It pisses me off to watch a scam go down. I watched the Kat scam from the beginning and new how it would end. It was painful to know all of those well meaning buyers who got so excited, were going to get jacked.
Again, I'm nobody special. Just been observing and want to see SR flourish.
This all seems excellent advice to me +1
V.
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Nice post, Gracevan3569.
+1
sdesu
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Great post no doubt. As a "Newerish Vendor" I just wanna make 2 points under your vendor listings:
1) I think a BRAND new vendor needs to "feel" like they are going to take over the market. Trust me its hard to drop the $150 on a vendor account and just think "ehhhh, this could be ok" Now the guy (non-vendor) that spends days/weeks/months talking about becoming a vendor and killing everyone else. that is just plain annoying. I never spoke a word here or on SR until I had my vendor accnt purchased. It was at that point I thought I had it all figured out, boy the devil is in the details as they say.
4) The devil is in the fucking details. ;)
6) This one hits home and I totally disagree. I also watched the Kat story unfold. It smelled of scam to high heaven, but I kept my mouth shut as I didn't want to be wrong. That and there was not talking 50 LSD crazyed people into thinking it may be too good to be true.
With that said - I use A LOT OF detail! In my listings, in my vendor profile. I try to share (as much as I can) to show that I am being honest and upfront. Maybe even try to educate a little bit. I think a listing like mine shows that I didn't write it up in 5secs. Like the weed dealer that say "3.5g of dank" ...and that is the whole listing. heh.
Point is, do not always assume detail = scam!
other then that this post is awesome! thats my 2 cents.
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Great post no doubt. As a "Newerish Vendor" I just wanna make 2 points under your vendor listings:
1) I think a BRAND new vendor needs to "feel" like they are going to take over the market. Trust me its hard to drop the $150 on a vendor account and just think "ehhhh, this could be ok" Now the guy (non-vendor) that spends days/weeks/months talking about becoming a vendor and killing everyone else. that is just plain annoying. I never spoke a word here or on SR until I had my vendor accnt purchased. It was at that point I thought I had it all figured out, boy the devil is in the details as they say.
4) The devil is in the fucking details. ;)
6) This one hits home and I totally disagree. I also watched the Kat story unfold. It smelled of scam to high heaven, but I kept my mouth shut as I didn't want to be wrong. That and there was not talking 50 LSD crazyed people into thinking it may be too good to be true.
With that said - I use A LOT OF detail! In my listings, in my vendor profile. I try to share (as much as I can) to show that I am being honest and upfront. Maybe even try to educate a little bit. I think a listing like mine shows that I didn't write it up in 5secs. Like the weed dealer that say "3.5g of dank" ...and that is the whole listing. heh.
Point is, do not always assume detail = scam!
other then that this post is awesome! thats my 2 cents.
I appreciate the vendor side of the perspective. I may go back when I have some time and clarify my OP. Each point itself, and even the whole collection, does not mean it is a scam. I was only pointing toward behaviors that buyers and new vendors engage in that make them vulnerable or suspicious.
You are correct that every vendor should be ambitious - that is the hallmark of a successful person in any en devour. I suppose I meant for buyers to be wary of bragging on the forums before every making a sale. I think you clarified my point well there.
Also, about the telling of stories...I struggled with how to articulate that properly. If we pay attention when people lie to us, you just know when they are saying more than they need to. It is some unconscious "tell" for a liar to ramble. A vendor providing detail on their home page as a means of information is one thing. I should have been clearer in how I presented that. Sticking with the {Kat} example, it was loaded with "anecdotes" and unnecessary narratives that you could just feel were bullshit. The human mind is an amazing thing in that it can pick out information from simple intuition or instinct. People just stop paying attention when they get wrapped up in those yarn of lies.
Thanks for adding your $.02, you certainly helped clarify what I was meaning to get across.
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Also, about the telling of stories...I struggled with how to articulate that properly. If we pay attention when people lie to us, you just know when they are saying more than they need to. It is some unconscious "tell" for a liar to ramble. A vendor providing detail on their home page as a means of information is one thing. I should have been clearer in how I presented that. Sticking with the {Kat} example, it was loaded with "anecdotes" and unnecessary narratives that you could just feel were bullshit. The human mind is an amazing thing in that it can pick out information from simple intuition or instinct. People just stop paying attention when they get wrapped up in those yarn of lies.
Thanks for adding your $.02, you certainly helped clarify what I was meaning to get across.
Unfortunately (for them) not everyone can see these "tells" as clearly as you, I and others. generally speaking some people are so blinded by the "reward" that they can't see the forest from the trees. Carrot on a stick syndrome if you will.
With the Kat situation. First and foremost I wish everyone would have gotten what they wanted out of that whole deal. Really. with that said. If I had to read one more story that started out with "Me and my sis" I was gonna shoot myself.
I said it in the Kat thread "Me and my sis have lots of LSD and hot bodies and we will fuck you. Both of us. AT THE SAME TIME! Did I mention we are twins? Identical."
....that is how out of control that shit got.
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Up n' comming vendor here.
Good post Gracevan.
Hey FrenchOnion, how do you think trusted vendors became that way? I guess I'm going to be guilty as hell soon, of dealing? :)
I'ts not the $150 that concerns me, or the elaborate preperation, it's the next $$$$ I may risk as a new vendor. Could just sit here and use it myself......for a long time:))
OR I could give it to you for Free! Never mind the effort.
I'll put you on my most desired list of product critics. :-*