Silk Road forums

Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: 19934life on July 08, 2012, 11:44 pm

Title: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: 19934life on July 08, 2012, 11:44 pm
Hey,
I have figured out just about everything in terms of shipping besides for one thing:

-how do you open a PO Box anonymously? Don't they require an id and a valid credit card?

Thanks in advance for all answers.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: Duckman on July 08, 2012, 11:46 pm
In which country?
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: zubic09 on July 08, 2012, 11:48 pm
In the U.S most places require two forms of I.D as in a drivers license and bill of some sort with your name on it. Fake both of those things and boom, anonymous P.O box  8)
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: Duckman on July 08, 2012, 11:51 pm
In the U.S most places require two forms of I.D as in a drivers license and bill of some sort with your name on it. Fake both of those things and boom, anonymous P.O box  8)

You still have to walk in and pick the stuff up.

If it was ever worth LE investigating a package sent to your home its equally worth investigating your PO Box.

Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: zubic09 on July 08, 2012, 11:58 pm
^true, but it gives you a chance to just walk away from it if something seems fishy. Also, find a P.O box that has 24-hour access and pick up your mail at odd hours, even if your box is under surveillance LE cannot afford 24 hour surveillance unless its a huge shipment.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: quinone on July 09, 2012, 01:54 am
You can access a UPS mailbox 24 hours a day and they also have a strict policy of there being NO camera's
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: NFHC on July 09, 2012, 02:14 am
You can access a UPS mailbox 24 hours a day and they also have a strict policy of there being NO camera's

how does no cameras make sense?
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: quinone on July 09, 2012, 02:44 am
You can access a UPS mailbox 24 hours a day and they also have a strict policy of there being NO camera's

how does no cameras make sense?

They do not monitor the mailboxes or the premises with cameras ... makes sense to me ... wtf are you asking me?
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: RetinaBlast on July 09, 2012, 04:58 am
I think he/she's asking how would a business, like UPS, not have security cameras in places for all the reasons businesses have them in place.

But UPS requires ID sometimes... as of dec 11 I believe. I've used them for above ground stuff and not been asked for id. Also had to request my "box" packaged by the clerk in a second box back since "I didn't have ID"
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: Shroomeister on July 09, 2012, 04:01 pm
Hey,
I have figured out just about everything in terms of shipping besides for one thing:

-how do you open a PO Box anonymously? Don't they require an id and a valid credit card?

Thanks in advance for all answers.

The simple answer is YOU DON'T.

The only potential advantage a PO box has over delivery to your "home" is noone get the package except for you. Some kids living at home dont want "mom" opening thier ish.

Heres a QUESTION (related)

If LE knows you got stuff coming to a PO box as opposed to your house, does this mean they would have a harder time getting a search warrant for your home?

I.E. - they know illlegal stuff is in your home (because the tracked the package there) then they get a search warrant and flip your sheets, ruining your day.

VS.

You have a PO box, and they know there is illegal stuff coming to it, but no "proof" its going to your home = harder to get a search warrant for your home.

I have NO IDEA if there is any truth to it. Can anyone comment? I just thought of this now.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: th3creeper on July 10, 2012, 07:34 am
In the U.S most places require two forms of I.D.....
Not quite. The USPS requires ALL(not most) retail box rental vendors(the Agent) to obtain and keep on file two valid forms of ID..not most.   That's not to say you won't stumble upon the occasional Mom and Pop operation who are lax in enforcing the Postal System's regulations.
....as in a drivers license and bill of some sort with your name on it. Fake both of those things and boom, anonymous P.O box  8)
Again, not exactly correct.  The PO  specifically spells out exactly what forms of ID are accepted.  Look up USPS Form 1583.  This is the standard form the USPS requires their retail agents to keep on file of their customers.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: th3creeper on July 10, 2012, 08:22 am
Hey,
I have figured out just about everything in terms of shipping besides for one thing:

-how do you open a PO Box anonymously? Don't they require an id and a valid credit card?

Thanks in advance for all answers.

The simple answer is YOU DON'T.

The only potential advantage a PO box has over delivery to your "home" is noone get the package except for you. Some kids living at home dont want "mom" opening thier ish.

Heres a QUESTION (related)

If LE knows you got stuff coming to a PO box as opposed to your house, does this mean they would have a harder time getting a search warrant for your home?

I.E. - they know illlegal stuff is in your home (because the tracked the package there) then they get a search warrant and flip your sheets, ruining your day.

VS.

You have a PO box, and they know there is illegal stuff coming to it, but no "proof" its going to your home = harder to get a search warrant for your home.

I have NO IDEA if there is any truth to it. Can anyone comment? I just thought of this now.
    So LE knowing your name/address..has no advantage over them NOT knowing??

    When you rent a box correctly(and by correctly I mean you have the right documents)...you can receive mail quasi-anonymously.  They won't know your real name and they won't know your real address.  If LE wants to detain you they are going to have to stake out the mailbox store with a photocopy of your fake ID in hand waiting for you to show up and then more than likely catch you in possession of the contraband.  I'd say that s a HUGE advantage to having them know exactly who you are and where you live.
    Even if you  have to walk away from a PO box never to return ....you stand very good chance of remaining anonymous.  Other advantages have been identified and discussed here ad nauseum for anyone wanting further info.



Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: Duckman on July 10, 2012, 07:46 pm
Its still really over the top to have a PO Box, and if you get caught, you can add falsifying documents etc to the charges.

Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: Shroomeister on July 10, 2012, 08:18 pm
and if you get caught, you can add falsifying documents etc to the charges.

True that.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: helll on July 11, 2012, 01:33 am
I would love to have an anonymous PO box, but I never see any fake IDs for the state I live in.  How much of a red flag is it to register a PO box under an out-of-state ID? 
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: LawEnforcement on July 11, 2012, 04:13 pm
and if you get caught, you can add falsifying documents etc to the charges.

True that.

*IF* you get caught.

I won't giveaway much but I will say that I have successfully opened a Post Office box last year with a fake ID. For people saying it is worse than using your own home address, I beg to differ.

1) I know for a fact the ID has not been kept on file at the post office. So there is no proof of the ID I used on file, for all they know the mail clerk could have typed in the details wrong when I signed up.
2) The post office only has my fake residential address on file and fake name. Nobody knows my real name or address.
3) I paid in cash for the box, so can't identify me from the paper trail.
4) Staking out the box by LE would just be uneconomical as it is 24/7 access.
5) I only get packages delivered in the name on the box and make sure that nothing requires to be signed, and if it does, never sign for it.

Apart from video camera footage, they have absolutely nothing on me. No real name, no residential address. Lets say hypothetically a package does get intercepted. They are going to go to the post office and not be able to track down the owner of the box (because they don't exist). They will then try to search camera footage (if they can be bothered). Maybe they find me (very hard though as the boxes are so small, very hard to distinguish who is opening which box and also I visit so rarely). Again, it would take someone with a lot of resources to do this. Over 1 gram of weed.... pfft.

Even if somehow they track you down from the cam footage (highly unlikely if you can be bothered to wear a hat and sunglasses, also the fact that obtaining the footage in the first place would take a long time to scan through it all) or from staking the box out (again, highly uneconomical given that there is 24/7 access), EVEN IF all that happens and somehow they nab you and take you in for questioning (as to why you are collecting someone elses mail) you still have a last line of defence: You're an errand runner. The true owner of the box is paying you to collect their mail. You don't know who they are, youve never seen them and they want it kept that way. All you do is collect the mail, drop it off at a place they tell you to, pick up your cash and dont ask questions.

Innocent until proven guilty. How would they prove you are guilty?

Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: FrenchOnionSoup on July 11, 2012, 07:31 pm

*IF* you get caught.

I won't giveaway much but I will say that I have successfully opened a Post Office box last year with a fake ID. For people saying it is worse than using your own home address, I beg to differ.

1) I know for a fact the ID has not been kept on file at the post office. So there is no proof of the ID I used on file, for all they know the mail clerk could have typed in the details wrong when I signed up.
2) The post office only has my fake residential address on file and fake name. Nobody knows my real name or address.
3) I paid in cash for the box, so can't identify me from the paper trail.
4) Staking out the box by LE would just be uneconomical as it is 24/7 access.
5) I only get packages delivered in the name on the box and make sure that nothing requires to be signed, and if it does, never sign for it.

Apart from video camera footage, they have absolutely nothing on me. No real name, no residential address. Lets say hypothetically a package does get intercepted. They are going to go to the post office and not be able to track down the owner of the box (because they don't exist). They will then try to search camera footage (if they can be bothered). Maybe they find me (very hard though as the boxes are so small, very hard to distinguish who is opening which box and also I visit so rarely). Again, it would take someone with a lot of resources to do this. Over 1 gram of weed.... pfft.

Even if somehow they track you down from the cam footage (highly unlikely if you can be bothered to wear a hat and sunglasses, also the fact that obtaining the footage in the first place would take a long time to scan through it all) or from staking the box out (again, highly uneconomical given that there is 24/7 access), EVEN IF all that happens and somehow they nab you and take you in for questioning (as to why you are collecting someone elses mail) you still have a last line of defence: You're an errand runner. The true owner of the box is paying you to collect their mail. You don't know who they are, youve never seen them and they want it kept that way. All you do is collect the mail, drop it off at a place they tell you to, pick up your cash and dont ask questions.

Innocent until proven guilty. How would they prove you are guilty?


Surely they make a photocopy of your fake ID which has a real picture of yourself, correct? In that case, the only way to track you down would be to enter your picture into some type of identification database and look for matches.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: getTHATpaper on July 11, 2012, 10:24 pm

*IF* you get caught.

I won't giveaway much but I will say that I have successfully opened a Post Office box last year with a fake ID. For people saying it is worse than using your own home address, I beg to differ.

1) I know for a fact the ID has not been kept on file at the post office. So there is no proof of the ID I used on file, for all they know the mail clerk could have typed in the details wrong when I signed up.
2) The post office only has my fake residential address on file and fake name. Nobody knows my real name or address.
3) I paid in cash for the box, so can't identify me from the paper trail.
4) Staking out the box by LE would just be uneconomical as it is 24/7 access.
5) I only get packages delivered in the name on the box and make sure that nothing requires to be signed, and if it does, never sign for it.

Apart from video camera footage, they have absolutely nothing on me. No real name, no residential address. Lets say hypothetically a package does get intercepted. They are going to go to the post office and not be able to track down the owner of the box (because they don't exist). They will then try to search camera footage (if they can be bothered). Maybe they find me (very hard though as the boxes are so small, very hard to distinguish who is opening which box and also I visit so rarely). Again, it would take someone with a lot of resources to do this. Over 1 gram of weed.... pfft.

Even if somehow they track you down from the cam footage (highly unlikely if you can be bothered to wear a hat and sunglasses, also the fact that obtaining the footage in the first place would take a long time to scan through it all) or from staking the box out (again, highly uneconomical given that there is 24/7 access), EVEN IF all that happens and somehow they nab you and take you in for questioning (as to why you are collecting someone elses mail) you still have a last line of defence: You're an errand runner. The true owner of the box is paying you to collect their mail. You don't know who they are, youve never seen them and they want it kept that way. All you do is collect the mail, drop it off at a place they tell you to, pick up your cash and dont ask questions.

Innocent until proven guilty. How would they prove you are guilty?


Surely they make a photocopy of your fake ID which has a real picture of yourself, correct? In that case, the only way to track you down would be to enter your picture into some type of identification database and look for matches.

They DO NOT make a photocopy of your ID. They just simply write down the information. Even with that being said, I still think its dumb for you to open a PO BOX with a fake. If, by the slim chance, that you do get caught - you're fucked no matter what. That's several felonies that you cannot defend against.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: raven92 on July 11, 2012, 10:27 pm
Its absurd thinking that they can't/wont monitor a 24/7 PO box. We live in the day and age of HD camera's smaller then a dime, with battery and storage included.

Also when they find out the PO box was opened with fraudulent documents, that's all the more reason. You've now entered terrorist status instead of druggie.

Fake ID's, PO boxes all can be used securely if your educated, smart and resourceful. But if your just expecting it to make you secure I think your just adding fuel to the fire if you are ever investigated.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: getTHATpaper on July 13, 2012, 01:35 am
^ I agree with the above post. Fake ID's with government run facilities definitely sounds like you're escalating from a small time, recreational user to a full blown terrorist (in their minds). Even if they didn't know that you were just shipping drugs to your PO BOX, if they found out about a fraudulent one being opened - I feel like that's a huge red flag and they will try to find out who's responsible for opening it. When it comes to National Defense, the government has unlimited spending and the citizens are happy to foot the bill - that's why I'd be cautious.

Anyways, I feel like unless Post Office's get audited in some way or if they investigate your box for whatever reason then you're fine. I guess you are getting drugs shipped to you PO BOX so..... chances are higher that they'd investigate? 
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: MightyMouse on July 13, 2012, 02:06 am
to chime in a bit, what ever happend to a wig an fake beard?
make a fake ID with that on, open the box with that on an whats exactly the issue of then photo coyping it?

a lease can be banged out on a laptop in 20 minutes easy. you jusr need to take a look at what yours looks like, change enough info an ect ect ect.

the point on security cams, well most post offices ive visted DO have cams faceing from the teller windows out but none looking at the PO boxes.

with a fake PO your biggest risk is getting caught picking up or being followed back to home base.
thats the only major issue i see but again that can be fixed if you shut the fuck up an lawyer up.
dont even try the bullshit story of "random dude, money, i dont know...please dont rape me!" till you talk to your lawyer.

the pro of no one knowing where you really live or who you are is a plus an DCN helps a shit ton.


the most perfect P.O box is 24/7 access. Always has been an always will be. Access it at random times,  wear a hat an never pick up right when it gets in. give it a day or so, check to see if you notice anything stange like a painters van or some other stupud shit. 
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: ereav on July 13, 2012, 02:17 am
Private mail box services are required to keep a photocopy of the ID you provided.  Most of them do. P.O. boxes have cameras all over.  That said, if customs snags your pack, the chance of further investigation is rare, and most surveillance footage isn't kept that long . If you use a real ID, you could claim it was stolen.  If they find you used a fake ID to open a box, you have no real defense, although at that point you likely fucked anyway.

The only real way of being truly anonymous is having an abandoned / empty house you can have packs dropped to.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: BanWork on July 13, 2012, 02:28 am
I enquired about a PO BOX last year in the UK, they said they would need a copy of my passport faxed to them, thats SO easy to fake. If you are getting major shit shipped to it get someone else to pick it up for you. Safe.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: HardHustle on July 13, 2012, 02:30 am
I read the USPS 1583 form. It says your Identification is "subject to verification." The hell does this mean?
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: 751a696c24d97009 on July 13, 2012, 02:36 am
It means they can check to see if your information is real or fake. For example, if you come in with a license, they might scan it. I'm sure they can check other forms of ID (passports, voter id cards, etc.) as well.

For anyone curious, here is what's required for a USPS PO box, taken directly from the USPS website:

"ID required
Whether you apply online or at a Post Office, two valid forms of identification are required when you obtain your keys or combination at the Post Offi ce where your box is located. You must present the IDs at a Post Office. One item must contain a photograph and one must be traceable to the bearer (prove your physical address). Both must be current. Acceptable forms of ID include:
photo Id Options:
■Valid driver’s license or state non-driver’s identifi cation card
■ Armed forces, government, university, or recognized corporate
identifi cation card
■ Passport, passport card, alien registration card, or certifi cate of
naturalization
non-photo Id Options:
■Current lease, mortgage, or deed of trust
■ Voter or vehicle registration card
■ Home or vehicle insurance policy
note: Social Security cards, credit cards, and birth certifi cates are
not acceptable forms of ID."
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: th3creeper on July 15, 2012, 10:15 am

*IF* you get caught.

I won't giveaway much but I will say that I have successfully opened a Post Office box last year with a fake ID. For people saying it is worse than using your own home address, I beg to differ.

1) I know for a fact the ID has not been kept on file at the post office. So there is no proof of the ID I used on file, for all they know the mail clerk could have typed in the details wrong when I signed up.
2) The post office only has my fake residential address on file and fake name. Nobody knows my real name or address.
3) I paid in cash for the box, so can't identify me from the paper trail.
4) Staking out the box by LE would just be uneconomical as it is 24/7 access.
5) I only get packages delivered in the name on the box and make sure that nothing requires to be signed, and if it does, never sign for it.

Apart from video camera footage, they have absolutely nothing on me. No real name, no residential address. Lets say hypothetically a package does get intercepted. They are going to go to the post office and not be able to track down the owner of the box (because they don't exist). They will then try to search camera footage (if they can be bothered). Maybe they find me (very hard though as the boxes are so small, very hard to distinguish who is opening which box and also I visit so rarely). Again, it would take someone with a lot of resources to do this. Over 1 gram of weed.... pfft.

Even if somehow they track you down from the cam footage (highly unlikely if you can be bothered to wear a hat and sunglasses, also the fact that obtaining the footage in the first place would take a long time to scan through it all) or from staking the box out (again, highly uneconomical given that there is 24/7 access), EVEN IF all that happens and somehow they nab you and take you in for questioning (as to why you are collecting someone elses mail) you still have a last line of defence: You're an errand runner. The true owner of the box is paying you to collect their mail. You don't know who they are, youve never seen them and they want it kept that way. All you do is collect the mail, drop it off at a place they tell you to, pick up your cash and dont ask questions.

Innocent until proven guilty. How would they prove you are guilty?


Surely they make a photocopy of your fake ID which has a real picture of yourself, correct? In that case, the only way to track you down would be to enter your picture into some type of identification database and look for matches.

They DO NOT make a photocopy of your ID. They just simply write down the information. Even with that being said, I still think its dumb for you to open a PO BOX with a fake. If, by the slim chance, that you do get caught - you're fucked no matter what. That's several felonies that you cannot defend against.
You obviously have never rented a mailbox or maybe your last one was pre 9/11.  Whether it's USPS mailbox or private box you are renting, a photocopy of both pieces of ID are photocopied.  This is one of USPS requirements that were handed down along with the Patriot Act.   Why the hell would a photo ID be required if they were only going to "simply write down the information."   It's safe to say the photo is the most important part of a "photo" ID.  That's something that cant be "written down."
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: th3creeper on July 15, 2012, 11:22 am
I would love to have an anonymous PO box, but I never see any fake IDs for the state I live in.  How much of a red flag is it to register a PO box under an out-of-state ID?
I'm not sure anyone knows for sure if it even is a red flag.  As far as being able to successfully rent a box it's probably not an issue. This holds true especially in certain(and many) areas of the country where people are used to seeing  out of state DL's.  I have rented many boxes using out of state docs and truthfully those occaisons were no difdrent from those times I used in state docs.

One possible issue could be that if LE started to see most people they busted for drugs in the mail had rented boxes with phony out of state ID's...they could go around and flag all PO and private box rentals that were effected with an out of state ID.  I don't know of this ever happening, but if you can't get an in-state ID ..chances are an out of state DL won't hurt you.  One of the golden rules in this scene has always been never have drugs shipped in your name and/or to your house.   Anyone who thinks they know better is talking out of their ass and fails to see the big picture.  Any way you look at it a box rented with out-of-state ID a far safer option than getting drugs shipped in your name to your house.   Anonymity is the name of the game.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: pine on July 16, 2012, 03:13 am
Y'all silly mammals.

Just use a virtual office mailing service instead.

Teleworkers use them to have an official business address to send post to. They frequently cost less than a mail box, but it depends.

A mailbox requires ID, a virtual office usually does not, and if they do, they certainly don't check it, you can give them a MovieClub membership card as ID for all they care it's totally legit so long as your currency is.

Importantly, they exist in every city there is, plus they offer all kinds of cool services e.g. webcams inside your pigeon hole, the ability to pay online {hence anonymously via a prepaid card}, 24 hour pickup and so forth.

Your average mailbox service has in my eyes, grandiose claims on what you can and can't do, and fuck all service. Maybe it's just the ones in my area, but I feel like they are my customers I'm supposed to be taking care of, rather than the other way around.
Title: Re: PO BOX ANONIMITY
Post by: chemdog on July 16, 2012, 02:35 pm
Just to point out something you should consider doing when producing portrait style pictures of yourselves for use in identity craft work.

Get the scissors and healing brush set out in Photoshop and move your eyes apart a tiny amount, along with any other facial features you can get away with. This decreases the chances of the power of using computers to identify you. Think about just feeding some of the stuff into the Facebook auto recognition facility without it.

I do this when I apply for legitimate things too. Why should I give my exact image to some faceless corp/gov body? Consciously choose your identity, just as long as you're not stealing one belonging to someone else.