Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: vapidmetalhead224 on July 02, 2012, 02:35 am
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Hey guys, this post will sound really dumb, but see... I *literally* just found out about this stuff today.
Not just Silk Road, but also Bitcoins. And the whole thing just utterly confuses me.
Let me tell you my story, first of all. I was on Tramadol for the last five months and then suddenly my doctor pulled my prescription. So first thing I did was look for alternatives. I looked into herbs with similar effects such as St. Johns and Kratum, looked into those "buy Tramadol online" websites which all looked like scams, and was just about to give up hope when I heard about Silk Road.
But now I hear I need "bit coins," and here's where I have a problem. I know you have to have a Liberty Reserve account, then use Mt. Gox to turn the LR money to Bit Coin, and then QUICKLY get the money out of Mt. Gox and into Silk Road (I've read about the Mt. Gox hacking and many people don't trust it now). What I don't know is how to get the money out of my bank account (or, I guess, my pocket) and into LR in the first place. Everything I've read says I need ANOTHER intermediary service... and they all sound like scams to me.
So, can anyone explain, in simple terms (I'm stupid when I'm not high) how to get from real money to bitcoin in as few steps as possible?
Thanks.
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There's a lot of Bitcoin vendors on Silk Road.
Personally I've used bitcoinnordic.com , they accept cash or banktransfers. Their rate is mtgox + 10%. For me that was best because I happen to live in Denmark like them, so the turn around is 24hours or less.
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(I'm stupid when I'm not high)
Funny how that works, huh?
I would recommend bitinstant.com, the process is explained quite clearly on their site, depending on which method you choose. For more anonymity try a trusted moneypak>bitcoin vendor here, but expect to pay a premium.
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Thanks, bitinstant looks like just what I need.
So I guess I *do* need a Mt. Gox account, right?
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So, can anyone explain, in simple terms (I'm stupid when I'm not high) how to get from real money to bitcoin in as few steps as possible?
There is a new BTC Exchangers review thread (with moderator assistance) on the forums that might be useful to you:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=26310.15
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Don't make a Mt.Gox. Just make a tormail account, and use Bitinstant's bitcoin to email method.
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Okay, so now I'm wondering how I get bitinstant to transfer from my bank account/credit card to much of anything.
I'm also confused about the whole "to email" thing. I mean, can I really get digital money with just an email address, or do I need bitcoin's downloadable program?
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This is a really good tutorial: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=15383.0
The only thing I would change with it is use Tails (https://tails.boum.org)
instead of Liberte. Liberte didn't work for me.
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One more question (and this will be my dumbest one yet, I'm sure): Is there any way I can get bitcoins with Paypal?
As you can probably guess, my whole problem is that I don't understand bitcoins. All the other stuff--anonymity, encryption, dilluting the digital trail as much as possible etc--make perfect sense to me, and I already use linux. But the only experience I have with digital currency is Paypal. Bitcoin is entirely new to me.
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One more question (and this will be my dumbest one yet, I'm sure): Is there any way I can get bitcoins with Paypal?
As you can probably guess, my whole problem is that I don't understand bitcoins. All the other stuff--anonymity, encryption, dilluting the digital trail as much as possible etc--make perfect sense to me, and I already use linux. But the only experience I have with digital currency is Paypal. Bitcoin is entirely new to me.
In the link BST posted you can find some reviews about SR bitcoin vendors. Or you can go with exchangers.
The advantage of SR vendors is cash in the mail so you gain anonymity. With the exchangers you have to use bank account or something like that in most of them. I recon there are a few with WU and cahs in the mail, etc... It depends where you from. Bitcoins are not that difficult to understand. Read the bitcoin wiki (just make a google search for bitcoin ).
I've said this once and I say it again. If you are going to fuck around with paypal you might just go to the near Leo station and hand over yourself. Paypal is nothing but trouble. Stay away and stay free.
Hope you understand I'm not joking. All it takes is for "them" to ask paypal and they will hunt you down no matter what.
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=26310.0
Be sure to leave a review when you have gone through the process!
thank you
waka
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Thanks. I'll look at those vendors and see if I can't make a deal with them.
I had a thought about security too: What if, instead of this "Liberte" thing and the USB setup dude recommends, I just always accessed SR from a Live CD or DVD? It would mean manually installing Tor every time I get online, but I think it would also mean automatically erasing all records of my activities on shutdown. That a good idea?
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I remember being at that stage,holy shit, it really was stressful anyway i used intersango.com, really simple process, just transfer money from your online bank account to your intersango account, then exchange your currency to Bitcoin through intersango, which is easy, then send your Bitcoin to your BC wallet(which is easily downloaded of google) then just send it your SR address. Eaaaaaaasy..
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welcome op. looks like you've got all the advice you need when it comes to bitcoin, which is good because i can only really help australians in that department.
you'll get the hang of everything though, eventually. i've been here five months and there's still a few things that i don't understand. lol
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1) Go to your local library and pull up bitinstant.com
2) choose "Cash Deposit - Major Bank Branch" to "Bitcoin Address"
3) put your bitcoin address from the "Account" page of your Silk Road account into the field for "Destination Account" then choose how much money to deposit and give them an email address.
4) it will have you choose a bank....bank of america or citibank. they don't need any personal info from you but if they start getting nosey just tell them you're buying WoWgold.
5) print out the invoice, bring it to the bank with the cash, and they will give you a receipt.
6) wait a couple hours and you will have coin in your account.
you could choose to run the money through a bunch of instawallets instead of straight to SR if you want to be extra secure.
the moneypak-->bitcoin vendors are such a rip off, but worth it i guess if you're rich and/or lazy.
don't go anywhere near Mt. Gox. that site needs to die.
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You can also use VirWox. I don't know if it's a really safe service, but it already worked for me for small amounts of money.
You can deposit money using Paypal or Moneybookers, then you have to exchange your money for SLL (Second Life virtual currency), and then you'll be able to exchange SLL for BTC. They take some fees for each transaction.
The only problem is that in consequence, you have a limited anonymity. Using services like Moneybookers or Paypal is not recommended.
Furthermore, in order to activate your account, you also have to create a Second Life account and download the game. You'll have to go to the VirWox "headquarters" in the game to activate your VirWox account. Needless to say that it's annoying as hell.
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I've had good luck going through Sugar Mama and BTCpal
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Thank you all again.
If I have this right, if I follow the advice (either bitinstant or one of the vendors here) and just give them the generated hash that appears on my account page, I'll log in one day and see I have however many bitcoins in it? The more I read it, the easier it sounds.
While I'm at it, what would you guys do if you were in my situation, trying to find out something new while going through painkiller withdrawals? I'm trying to get my doctor to give me tramadol without mentioning it by name (I know that would be instant fail), or if not that then at least hydrocodone or something, but he keeps either giving me weak shit or stuff that I don't really know what it is.
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1) Go to your local library and pull up bitinstant.com
2) choose "Cash Deposit - Major Bank Branch" to "Bitcoin Address"
3) put your bitcoin address from the "Account" page of your Silk Road account into the field for "Destination Account" then choose how much money to deposit and give them an email address.
4) it will have you choose a bank....bank of america or citibank. they don't need any personal info from you but if they start getting nosey just tell them you're buying WoWgold.
5) print out the invoice, bring it to the bank with the cash, and they will give you a receipt.
6) wait a couple hours and you will have coin in your account.
you could choose to run the money through a bunch of instawallets instead of straight to SR if you want to be extra secure.
the moneypak-->bitcoin vendors are such a rip off, but worth it i guess if you're rich and/or lazy.
don't go anywhere near Mt. Gox. that site needs to die.
could you also do it at a place like walmart?
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......, which is good because i can only really help australians in that department.
Thanks mate, please help a fellow Aussie. How do I get the cash into here easily?
Cheers.
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Bitinstant and coinapult is good. If you're really lazy, or just want to do a first "test" before really investing more research and effort into doing this: Greendot Moneypak>BTCpal/FoxyMeow Moneypak for BTC listing>???>profit.
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One more question (and this will be my dumbest one yet, I'm sure): Is there any way I can get bitcoins with Paypal?
As you can probably guess, my whole problem is that I don't understand bitcoins. All the other stuff--anonymity, encryption, dilluting the digital trail as much as possible etc--make perfect sense to me, and I already use linux. But the only experience I have with digital currency is Paypal. Bitcoin is entirely new to me.
check out the bitcoin form bitcointalk.org but make sure you use a TRUSTED source, or your likely to get scammed.
Where are you from? if your from canada PM me and I will let you know of a couple.
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United States bastard here, unfortunately.
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don't go anywhere near Mt. Gox. that site needs to die.
why is that, can you please explain?
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don't go anywhere near Mt. Gox. that site needs to die.
why is that, can you please explain?
Hello again Vlad,
A few reasons why using MtGox (or indeed any exchange to obtain Bitcoins) is a bad idea:
- You can't access MtGox via Tor without risking them asking you for ID documents. This means you can't buy Bitcoins safely as you have to resort to more unsafe methods such as using VPN's.
- Even if you can access an exchange safely if you use a traceable method such as bank transfer, Dwolla etc. the original purchase of Bitcoins can be traced to you, thereby undermining their anonymity. At the risk of sounding like a plug, this is the reason I sell BTC for cash in the mail only!
- MtGox have said publicly they'll cooperate with enquiries from law enforcement - they also have one at least one occasion frozen a user's Bitcoin assets because some of their coins were allegedly stolen. This was probably true in the sense that the five dollar bill in your wallet may have been stolen from a cash register at some point, it doesn't make you a thief.
The golden rule which I repeat ad nauseum is that the ONLY ways to obtain Bitcoins safely are buying them with cash, selling them for goods/services e.g MoneyPaks or mining them.
Hope this helps,
V.
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mt gox are a buncha assholes, they let you add funds then they freeze your account and make you verify your self in order to gain access to your funds again. And if you do not verify they will not release your funds.
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I remember being at that stage,holy shit, it really was stressful anyway i used intersango.com, really simple process, just transfer money from your online bank account to your intersango account, then exchange your currency to Bitcoin through intersango, which is easy, then send your Bitcoin to your BC wallet(which is easily downloaded of google) then just send it your SR address. Eaaaaaaasy..
That's got to be the easyest way, don't think it's the safest but that's up to you. Good luck, you'll work something out. :)
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Hello again Vlad,
A few reasons why using MtGox (or indeed any exchange to obtain Bitcoins) is a bad idea:
- You can't access MtGox via Tor without risking them asking you for ID documents. This means you can't buy Bitcoins safely as you have to resort to more unsafe methods such as using VPN's.
- Even if you can access an exchange safely if you use a traceable method such as bank transfer, Dwolla etc. the original purchase of Bitcoins can be traced to you, thereby undermining their anonymity. At the risk of sounding like a plug, this is the reason I sell BTC for cash in the mail only!
- MtGox have said publicly they'll cooperate with enquiries from law enforcement - they also have one at least one occasion frozen a user's Bitcoin assets because some of their coins were allegedly stolen. This was probably true in the sense that the five dollar bill in your wallet may have been stolen from a cash register at some point, it doesn't make you a thief.
The golden rule which I repeat ad nauseum is that the ONLY ways to obtain Bitcoins safely are buying them with cash, selling them for goods/services e.g MoneyPaks or mining them.
Hope this helps,
V.
wow, thanks for the extensive response! but how traceable are the coins? it must be a real pain in the ass to trace them, so "they" wouldn't do it to a small-time buyer like me, or am I wrong?
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Hello again Vlad,
A few reasons why using MtGox (or indeed any exchange to obtain Bitcoins) is a bad idea:
- You can't access MtGox via Tor without risking them asking you for ID documents. This means you can't buy Bitcoins safely as you have to resort to more unsafe methods such as using VPN's.
- Even if you can access an exchange safely if you use a traceable method such as bank transfer, Dwolla etc. the original purchase of Bitcoins can be traced to you, thereby undermining their anonymity. At the risk of sounding like a plug, this is the reason I sell BTC for cash in the mail only!
- MtGox have said publicly they'll cooperate with enquiries from law enforcement - they also have one at least one occasion frozen a user's Bitcoin assets because some of their coins were allegedly stolen. This was probably true in the sense that the five dollar bill in your wallet may have been stolen from a cash register at some point, it doesn't make you a thief.
The golden rule which I repeat ad nauseum is that the ONLY ways to obtain Bitcoins safely are buying them with cash, selling them for goods/services e.g MoneyPaks or mining them.
Hope this helps,
V.
wow, thanks for the extensive response! but how traceable are the coins? it must be a real pain in the ass to trace them, so "they" wouldn't do it to a small-time buyer like me, or am I wrong?
It's a common argument but I'm not convinced it would be very difficult - certainly it wouldn't be much more difficult to trace 5,000 dollars instead of 500 - the best way to illustrate this is to go to www.blockchain.info and enter your current wallet address in the search bar the top right. You'll see all Bitcoins sent to and from that address. Most importantly you can also see the addresses from which/to which they are sent.
You can then copy and paste these addresses to trace the passage of the coins throughout the block chain. If at any stage your identity can be linked to a wallet address e.g because a court has ordered an exchange to turn its records over to the Police, then it will be possible to track the passage of your Bitcoins.
Of course if you use a traceable method to buy Bitcoins in the first place e.g wire transfer, this won't even be necessary as it will be obvious to any fool with access to your bank records that you sent money to an exchange. There are of course perfectly legal reasons to do this but if you're standing in court because you've received a package full of drugs at your home address and are trying to deny all knowledge of it, it's not going to help your case if it can be proven you've bought some of the No. 1 currency for trafficking in illegal goods.
Of course this is a worst case scenario but the point remains that the risk is real and not theoretical and it also wouldn't make much of a difference how many Bitcoins you've bought (although admittedly very large amounts are more easy to trace through the block chain).
You can reduce the chance of the kind of block chain analysis I've talked about taking place by using a coin mixer but on the basis of prevention being better than cure, it's better to use cash or sell goods like Moneypaks to obtain your Bitcoins rather than go via an exchange. It may cost more but it's a very small price to pay for obtaining the Bitcoins safely.
V.
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all clear, thanks a lot. i might use your service in the near future :)
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all clear, thanks a lot. i might use your service in the near future :)
You're most welcome, feel free to send me a message (as Freudian as it may be!) :-D
V.
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2 things:
first, if you're starting a new thread to ask things like "how do i get btc into my SR account?", "how do i place an order?", "how does my penis size compare to others?" it means that you haven't read the forums long enough to know how to be safe on the road. which means you shouldn't get btc yet, because you have much more studying to do. this information is all available on the forums! read them! go back through the older threads! search for keywords about things that confuse you! etc.
second, there is no reason you have to go to the library to access bitinstant. it is tor-friendly. also, there are some tor-friendly exchanges where you can purchase your btc in real time and have more control over the usd paid per btc, rather than using coinapult or direct address and having a large sum bought at 10cents higher than any other trades that day. if you prefer more speed and convenience, then don't worry about the exchange step.
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You're right, I'm not ready yet. I've done a lot of reading up and I've figured out the basics, but when I see the costs and how complicated this all will be--not to mention all the risks involved--I just don't feel up to it. Especially when I'm still going through withdrawals and am in a state where I will make plenty of mistakes.
This was driven home to me last night. I cooked chicken--something that I usually manage fine--and at some point, accidentally turned the stove off without knowing it. So the chicken was undercooked and I got sick from eating it. I'd hate to think what would've happened if I had been cooking meth instead.
Puts me in a real catch-22 though... I need tramadol to have either the patience or the mental faculty to do the Bitcoin thing, but I'm trying to do the Bitcoin thing *because* I don't have Tramadol. Doncha just hate that situation?
For now I'm gonna go back to looking at those "buy Tramadol Online" web-pharmacies. If anyone has had good experiences with those, let me know if the board's rules allow it.
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those are more than likely scams..
There has to be an US based exchange that allows you to deposit cash via bank account... I know of 2 in Canada so its pretty common...
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coinapult.com. keep it simple! if that is too tricky, just buy an amazon.com gift card and sell it in the newbies section of bitcointalk.org. use a trusted member for escrow. many ways to skin this cat.
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So many misconceptions, so little time, so read this:
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Ima crossposting this because I don't think the implications of it are being realized, or else it's not being read enough. Probably both. Anyway:
SubTopic: This shows you how to anonymously use Bitcoins.
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Your problem is now to disassociate yourself from the bitcoins you have purchased. You've kinda screwed up you see unless you did what I mentioned in 'Future Reference' below. Now you must do some work to cover your tracks. Read everything carefully.
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For future reference:
Ideally you should have remained anonymous right from the onset before your purchased anything. You would have to buy the bitcoins with a cash deposit at a bank *and* access the (mtgox) exchange website through a private proxy in your region of the world. You would have been using Tor to access that proxy which accesses the exchange clearnet site. I appreciate that sounds wildly complicated, but it's actually quite simple once you know how. Not only will it save you money, but it is many many times more secure. It's also less complex than what you need to do now unless you sell your coins and start over.
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Your work today:
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Since you've already bought B$ through clearnet at mtgox, you should send them to an instawallet (a one time address service offered by some B$ services online). Bookmark the instawallet URL otherwise you'll lose your money. Do not use Tor with instawallet or mtgox at this stage, that would be a red flag leading directly to you, you are assuming that both instawallet and mtgox relay all information to law enforcement and using Tor is bad news bears because mtgox will likely request a positive ID of you to release the funds citing AML requirements.
Use Tor to find a Bitcoin laundering service, search our forums to find a reliable one. They will give you an address to send to. Don't send anything to it just yet (and note that it would take roughly a day for a mix to operate, so don't panic if it takes time, it's not instantaneous).
Go to instawallet through clearnet and forward the coins to a Bitcoin wallet on your own computer (you need to download some bitcoin wallet software for this, you also need to torify your bitcoin wallet and download the block chain (will take a couple of hours), read this document: http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tor). Now it appears that you've paid somebody in a different country Bitcoins because your Bitcoin wallet is torified.
Ok, now you have an option. For more security, you can use a mix (the bitcoin laundering service I mentioned, it will cost you money), or you go proceed directly to sending bitcoin from your wallet to a new instawallet which you've accessed via Tor. Then from instawallet to the SR address you have.
I suggest you first do this with a small amount of bitcoin to ensure this all makes sense and then you can be confident enough to do it again. At each stage you should be using a different Bitcoin address, never use the same one twice because that creates a loop, indicating that it is highly likely that any transactions in the loop are authorized by the same person.
Yes, you could just link your mtgox a/c to your SR account. But if you read in the newspaper that the Silk Road got busted, then you're going to feel rather queasy and wish you'd followed the above instructions.
If all of this sounds like too much of a headache (albeit it would be hugely educational), then just sell the bitcoins, retrieve your money and start again. If you aren't confident enough, that would be best.
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Condensed Iteration of everything above the line:
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Here's the tldr; version where instructions are separated from advice:
Future Activity:
Cash deposit at bank to an exchange -> Use Tor to access private proxy* in your country -> communicate through that proxy to the exchange -> convert cash to bitcoins -> open an online wallet service -> send bitcoins to that service -> optionally put those bitcoins through a mix -> send bitcoins to your SR wallet.
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If you already have bitcoins connected to your identity. e.g. used a credit card to buy, transferred from your bank account to exchange etc.
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Go onto Tor and download bitcoin wallet software -> Printscreen http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tor instructions -> Turn off interweb -> Install and torify your bitcoin wallet software -> Turn on interweb and download the block chain to torified bitcoin wallet, now you are ready to proceed -> On clearnet, access your exchange account with the bitcoins -> Make an instawallet/online bitcoin wallet provider account through clearnet -> transfer bitcoins from exchange to instawallet -> transfer from instawallet to your torified bitcoin wallet -> Open new instawallet with Tor -> transfer from torified bitcoin wallet to instawallet on Tor -> Optionally transfer to a bitcoin mixing service -> wait a couple of hours/days -> transfer from mixing service or online wallet to SR.
Advice:
1. Don't have your clearnet browser and Tor browser open at the same time.
2. Never use a Bitcoin address more than once.
3. Search forum for bitcoin mixing services and online bitcoin wallet providers.
4. If you think you see flaws, you point them out. The only stupid question is one never asked.
5. Although the above procedures might make you more paranoid, you should really sleep a whole lot sounder since every service you've used from the exchange to the Silk Road itself could be compromised and it wouldn't matter a whole lot.
6. Clearnet means being on the normal web and you're not using Tor software. Darknet is the opposite.
7. To torify something means that its internet traffic is being routed though the Tor network.
8. Don't access exchange websites with Tor, period. Unless you're doing what I described above
9. Don't access any website with Tor e.g. your instawallet, and then access the same web address/URL using Tor. Now instawallet knows who you are if you do.
10. Under no circumstances, none, forward bitcoins from A to B and then put the bitcoins back into a wallet you used earlier. This is circumstantial evidence that all bitcoin activity in that loop belongs to a single entity.
11. The larger the quantities being transacted, the more you want to be thinking about ferrying varying amounts of bitcoin over time with different Tor identities. I believe there is bitcoin software that can do this for you, future scheduled deposits that is, and your Tor software periodically changes identity anyway.
* It's like the Home Cooking Channel! Here's one we made earlier!
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1) Go to your local library and pull up bitinstant.com
2) choose "Cash Deposit - Major Bank Branch" to "Bitcoin Address"
3) put your bitcoin address from the "Account" page of your Silk Road account into the field for "Destination Account" then choose how much money to deposit and give them an email address.
4) it will have you choose a bank....bank of america or citibank. they don't need any personal info from you but if they start getting nosey just tell them you're buying WoWgold.
This is exactly the easiest method. Literally can have coin in SR wallet in a couple hours. I run my coin through a couple wallets, but this is it right here for a beginner. Follow it step-by-step. I'm probably still considered new, but it doesn't get easier than this.
5) print out the invoice, bring it to the bank with the cash, and they will give you a receipt.
6) wait a couple hours and you will have coin in your account.
you could choose to run the money through a bunch of instawallets instead of straight to SR if you want to be extra secure.
the moneypak-->bitcoin vendors are such a rip off, but worth it i guess if you're rich and/or lazy.
don't go anywhere near Mt. Gox. that site needs to die.