Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: aciddeath on April 24, 2012, 09:04 pm
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been considering seeing a psychiatrist for problems I am having in my life... feeling generally impaired, can't keep up, things falling by the wayside, and so forth
For those who have been diagnosed or seen a psychiatrist, what do I expect?
How long was your appointment?
What can you tell me?
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Try to find a psych that has a lot of experience with meds. Like one who teaches pharmacology, or who worked in a psych ward of some kind.
Before you take any of their pills, get a 2nd, 3rd and even 4th opinion. As many as your budget/insurance allows. Most of the folks prescribing meds don't know what they are doing.
See if they ask you lots of questions, instead of letting you ramble on. If they ask you to take some kind of written test where you have to answer a slew of questions by scoring yourself on a scale of 1 to 5 or something similar, run, don't walk out of the office. Any psych who need/uses a written test to diagnose you is a fraud.
After you get drug reco's investigate natural/homeopathic equivalents. i was on 40 mgs/day of prozac and it was killing me, i had terrible diarrhea and couldn't get an erection. then i switched over to 5-htp ( a natural supplement). I feel better than ever and no side effects.
good luck. plz post the results of your evaluation for all of us to pick over.
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thanks for the response
I have used 5htp with excellent results... taking it twice a day (before bed and in the morning) did awesome things for my mood.
I have pretty much self-diagnosed ADHD inattentive despite being in absolutely no position to do so.
I have used stimulant (amphetamine) medication in the past with great success. I never became 'addicted' or took more than the 'dose' which I 'prescribed' myself.
I desire the legal and financial protections that come along with a prescription/diagnosis
I've found a clinic I want to attend, but still haven't gotten the guts to actually make the call yet.. It will be the first time I've ever been to one of these places
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clinic? U in the UK/Eu/Canada or some? Just as its not a mental hospital and you tell them you are hearing voices. even if you are hearing voices the last place i'd go were a mental hospital. Private practitioner is best if they are available in your country. Don't be afraid to go though, ADD is a very common thing. You may also have your diagnosis wrong. it could be lots of other stuff.
Glad to hear that some of the ADD meds worked for you. Just curious, have you ever tried cocaine? Not to treat add, but i've noticed that the more ADD some one is, the less of an effect cocaine has on them. I knew a guy who was severely ADD. Said he tried a line and felt nothing. Did another, nothing. The blow was for real too man. Anyhow i've noticed it can be an indicator of ADD-not having much or any reaction to a line or two of blow.
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Anyhow i've noticed it can be an indicator of ADD-not having much or any reaction to a line or two of blow.
I think everyone in the UK has ADD has we usually have little reaction to a couple of lines ;)
but maybe its the 20% 'pure' gear sold here!
Looking forward to trying some good coke this weekend. 8)
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If you want a doctor to prescribe you Adderall you can:
1. Tell them you already have a prescription and you need a refill. 20mg IR PO 84h (every 8 hours) X 30 tabs. Some doctors will believe you, otherwise move on.
2. I'm guessing your not an adolescent or younger, but you say your drug free from ADD symptoms for awhile now, but have some life stress and important events that need your attention, and you like to have the option to medicate when necessary.
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I don't want to sound like I'm working for the Cephalon corporation, having touted moda before as a nootropic, but have you tried modadinil?
It is non-addictive, and if you look into it, you'll see it can serve the same function as ADD/ADHD medication.
I think that moda is much safer than adderall, ritalin or amphetamines. I read the clincial trial data, and I think it is very promising. It was thrown out by the FDA for some junk reason that is highly unlikely to be connected to modafinil (somebody died from an extremely rare skin disease in the clinical trial).
I suggest you bring moda up with the doctor and ask them. I'm extremely leery of taking drugs but I think some lifestyle changes + moda and a healthy diet/exercise work wonders for a great many people suffering from attention and retention problems.
In my experience, many doctors simply use a 'chemical cosh' on their patients in this area of drugs for the mind. Whether it is depression, anxiety, stress, attention span problems, they often use sledge hammers when they ought to be using chestnut hammers. They have 10 - 20 minutes at the most to make a diagnosis, and much of that is spent filling paperwork, reading your medical history or writing prescriptions. You on the other hand, live with yourself all day long and feel very different from day to day. So it is easy to make mistakes even if there are not incentives to do so.
As a devout capitalist, let me remind you that there is this giant global conspiracy theory. They are very organized. They sit in tower blocks, around tables endlessly plotting. They want your money! Who?! Everybody! They are all in it!
But seriously, I'm just saying don't leave your thinking cap at the door to the consultant's office. So many do. When you take drugs, you should trust your body's reaction to them just as much as the doctor and the advice. Keep a drug diary. Track your progress. This is not a New Age trust in Nature thing, it's that doctors are consultants like any other kind of consultants, they are not special, they are frequently overconfident as to the diagnosis of the problem, 50% of the time or more. And if you get the problem wrong, then it stands to reason that no amount of solutions will help you improve.
If you are thinking like a capitalist setting up your portfolio of investments, this way helps you to think rationally. For example; if you consider your health as 'human capital', then you are out to improve your ROI (return on investment). So you approach it by running trials with a drug diary, by doing your own research on drugs, by using visible and tangible metrics to establish whether ground is covered or lost. You would do this for your money, why not your health? Note: some drugs take a few weeks to work, so watch out.
This is more rational, because even if a drug solves the problem entirely, it could be the case that you find you lose capital elsewhere e.g. you feel tired, get headaches, suffer some dysfunction. It is nearly impossible for a doctor to work out such opportunity costs for your person in 10 or 20 minutes. Even perfectly synthesized drugs don't work identically, even in twins.
tldr; To the excel spreadsheet you must go! Yes!
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dihi28, I'm in the US and the place I was CONSIDERING going was a private practice. I am not feelin suicidal or experiencing hallucinations or even depression. This is part of the reason it's hard for me to bring myself to 'one of those places'. All of that 'energy'(?) from all of those minds is intense to me. I have health insurance and could definitely 'surf' around but I'm not sure I'm even into the idea of coming back for a "round two" of evaluative tests.
I have tried cocaine. The first and second time I tried it I freaked out and went to sleep. Both times definitely got me high without a doubt. Cocaine always get me viciously cloudy and numb. To me it's not too fun of a drug and one which I choose not to spend money on.. though I have always dreamed of trying some top shelf coke.
winterjacket1,
I would imagine they would either ask to see the Rx, refer me back to my original doctor, or request health records from the original dr.
I am not in my adolescence thank fuck, but I like the spin that #2 has. I think because of the high potential stimulants have for abuse most psychiatrists would lean towards prescribing straterra (esp. if I would let them conclude there was a comorbidity anxiety / depression /etc) but you never know
pine,
You are a very insightful person and I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
we're talking about Modafinil right?
This was where I originally ended up when I was faced with this same exactly dilemma three months ago. I have never tried it but I am definitely going to.
I really tend to not want to be 'part' of the psychiatric system. The only time I've ever seen someone was a general practitioner for social anxiety (benzos). The thought of somehow piecing together an ADHD diagnosis just seems 'wrong' in one way or another to me.. mostly because my immediate motivation is hyperfocusing my way through a ton of technical projects, rising to the top of my work environment ($$$), and slight financial gain through diversion sales of the excess.
I took a lot of ritalin and adderall in college. It was one of the reasons I was able to get a decent grade point average. It was all dispensed to me from 3rd parties. I would want to be honest with a health care professional, but this would likely immediately send up red flags. Ritalin and its extended release made me feel like dying. Adderall was an entirely different story.
The real crux of the issue is wanting to remain chemically pure. On the other hand this is incredibly hypocritical. I love to experiment with drugs. I make it a policy to exercise self control with all substances. I do a piss poor job with weed. To the psychiatry world I am a severe drug abuser. We working professionals keep a fully stocked bar to drink heavily once a week, sometimes twice. I smoke the tall earth to the head daily. In the past 4 months I have ingested a wide variety of drugs not directly intended for my consumption(fent,oxy,2cb,mdma,adderall,lsd) in addition to the hash, benzos and liquor. I am constantly wrestling with ideas like, "is it OK for me to take opiates every weekend? every other weekend? Is it OK to offer opiates to my girlfriend who enjoys them when available?". The slopes seem extremely slippery.
I guess when I read the articles and browse the books seeing things like "chronic forgetfulness, poor self esteem, difficulty controlling anger, impulsiveness, chronic boredom, difficulty concentrating when reading, mood swings, troubled relationships, driving violations, 6 or more symptoms of inattention lasting 6 or more months causing problems in two or more areas of the life like home or work"
I start to think... I could REALLY benefit from being medicated and it could sure make life a lot 'easier'. Do I really need to dance with another addictive substance? Aren't these just symptoms of everyday life for everyone? Do I really need to be 'part of their system'? If I am part of their system, will I be tempted to abuse? Is it worth the risk of starting to believe there's something wrong with me OR IS THERE really something wrong with me(and has there been this whole time)?
Crazy chit
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In all seriousness, access to quick, cheap speed may not be your solution. Not trying to be a dick.
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Reich has listings for ethylphenidate, you should hop on that. be your own fucking doctor, right?
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Try to find a psych that has a lot of experience with meds. Like one who teaches pharmacology, or who worked in a psych ward of some kind.
Before you take any of their pills, get a 2nd, 3rd and even 4th opinion. As many as your budget/insurance allows. Most of the folks prescribing meds don't know what they are doing.
See if they ask you lots of questions, instead of letting you ramble on. If they ask you to take some kind of written test where you have to answer a slew of questions by scoring yourself on a scale of 1 to 5 or something similar, run, don't walk out of the office. Any psych who need/uses a written test to diagnose you is a fraud.
After you get drug reco's investigate natural/homeopathic equivalents. i was on 40 mgs/day of prozac and it was killing me, i had terrible diarrhea and couldn't get an erection. then i switched over to 5-htp ( a natural supplement). I feel better than ever and no side effects.
good luck. plz post the results of your evaluation for all of us to pick over.
I was with you until you mentioned "natural/homeopathic" remedies. First of all, don't lump those two things together. First of all, there is nothing special about "natural" remedies. They're not chemically different than man-made chemicals and, in fact, because it is found and not designed tends to work as well. The whole "natural versus artificial and scary and sciency" thing is nonsense. I'm glad you found something that works for you, but any doctor worth their salt will prescribe a good diet and vigorous exercise as a treatment for depression (5-htp appears to be a which would give you 5-htp, ahem, naturally).
Second, the real reason I'm writing this post is that you lumped in the homopathic scam in with natural supplements. Do you even know what homeopathy is? It comes from the Latin for "same as the disease." The theory, and I am not kidding about this, is that when you take a substance that causes symptoms similar to your disease (in this case, a chemical that causes depression and poor mood) and you dilute it to the point where the chemical no longer remains in the water (using a the very scientific principle of shaking it up and down ten times, then side to side ten times, then...) the water retains the "vibrations" of the noxious chemical - and yes, they do call them vibrations. In other words, homeopathic medicine is a cynical scam of selling people nothing more than water.
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pine,
You are a very insightful person and I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
we're talking about Modafinil right?
This was where I originally ended up when I was faced with this same exactly dilemma three months ago. I have never tried it but I am definitely going to.
I really tend to not want to be 'part' of the psychiatric system. The only time I've ever seen someone was a general practitioner for social anxiety (benzos). The thought of somehow piecing together an ADHD diagnosis just seems 'wrong' in one way or another to me.. mostly because my immediate motivation is hyperfocusing my way through a ton of technical projects, rising to the top of my work environment ($$$), and slight financial gain through diversion sales of the excess.
I took a lot of ritalin and adderall in college. It was one of the reasons I was able to get a decent grade point average. It was all dispensed to me from 3rd parties. I would want to be honest with a health care professional, but this would likely immediately send up red flags. Ritalin and its extended release made me feel like dying. Adderall was an entirely different story.
The real crux of the issue is wanting to remain chemically pure. On the other hand this is incredibly hypocritical. I love to experiment with drugs. I make it a policy to exercise self control with all substances. I do a piss poor job with weed. To the psychiatry world I am a severe drug abuser. We working professionals keep a fully stocked bar to drink heavily once a week, sometimes twice. I smoke the tall earth to the head daily. In the past 4 months I have ingested a wide variety of drugs not directly intended for my consumption(fent,oxy,2cb,mdma,adderall,lsd) in addition to the hash, benzos and liquor. I am constantly wrestling with ideas like, "is it OK for me to take opiates every weekend? every other weekend? Is it OK to offer opiates to my girlfriend who enjoys them when available?". The slopes seem extremely slippery.
I guess when I read the articles and browse the books seeing things like "chronic forgetfulness, poor self esteem, difficulty controlling anger, impulsiveness, chronic boredom, difficulty concentrating when reading, mood swings, troubled relationships, driving violations, 6 or more symptoms of inattention lasting 6 or more months causing problems in two or more areas of the life like home or work"
I start to think... I could REALLY benefit from being medicated and it could sure make life a lot 'easier'. Do I really need to dance with another addictive substance? Aren't these just symptoms of everyday life for everyone? Do I really need to be 'part of their system'? If I am part of their system, will I be tempted to abuse? Is it worth the risk of starting to believe there's something wrong with me OR IS THERE really something wrong with me(and has there been this whole time)?
Crazy chit
Basically you feel like you are losing control. Your symptoms are that of prolonged stress over a long period. This is very TLDR, but I think it will help you. I was much in the same boat until a couple of months ago.
Some people would tell you to take a holiday, but I believe holidays themselves are the source of a considerable amount of stress. As far as stress relief goes, such ideas are practically mythological for the average person. In terms of stress, it's like the after dinner mint which accompanies your amazing bill. Just serves to emphasize the enormity of the new hole in your wallet even more. People spend their working lives thinking about 'holiday', and then all holiday thinking about 'work'. Dante would have to invent a new circle of hell were he living here today.
The majority of psychological advice given to people today, is feminine. Let me explain that statement because it might sound a little odd at first blush.
I'm sure you've heard of concepts such as "reading a helpful book on the subject", "hearing the experiences of people who 'overcame'", "group" and worst of all: "talking about it" or "expressing your feelings".
I'm terribly afraid this is the most awful rubbish. Not in all cases is it junk. Just in the majority of them. For men. It usually works for women. Women are more empathetic than men for brain chemistry reasons, so this makes sense to them, which is why they enter fields such as psychology, nursing, much more so than males.
Crux of the matter as far as psychology is concerned: Sharing is good.
But there's something really weird about that now isn't there?
I mean, surely you've noticed that when men and women disagree, argue etc, that men always are talking about the functional problem e.g. how to solve it, while women simply want to be listened to, to connect? Or visa versa, that a woman misunderstands that when a guy talks about doing something, that this is not really a 'sharing moment', but a potential act genuinely being considered, a plan being made. A good example is the rate of male suicide. The majority of female suicides are pre-empted by a series of extremely obvious attempts that mostly fail until the final act. But when men kill themselves, it is highly unusual for there to be a 'warning'.
This comes down to a very functional thing: men and women have different levels of different hormones (usually). So when we say they 'think differently', this is not a metaphor about having different ideas to each other, but a literal truth like the level of base or acidity on the PH scale.
You are not going to solve a male problem, with a female solution. That seems trivially obvious when you think about it for even a second, yet the tide of information around you says the opposite. Well, they are wrong and your instincts are correct.
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I think you need a 'respite' or 'rehab'. I don't actually mean drug rehab at all, drugs are not the real problem here, that is blatantly obvious. I mean you get 7 - 14 - 28 days by yourself. No family, no friends. No electronic media whatsoever except for perhaps a landline call to let girlfriend/wife know you're alive once a week so you don't wind up on a missing person's list. I really mean once a week. If she/others want morning/noon and night updating on your status, then they can go fuck themselves. Enough with the digital stalking already. And if your significant other/family give your phone no. to co-workers or friends... Some people would call that selfish. So. Fucking. What. What is a holiday *supposed* to be about. Other people? Ha!
No drugs of any kind, not even modafinil. Coffee and the like are fine, but not alcohol. No TV, no videogames. No fast food, just a big stock up of groceries, eggs, milk, that kind of thing. Remove any clocks from the house, including alarm clocks and your watch.
Ideally, you ought to be situated in the remote countryside in a holiday home to rent or similar. I'm not against cities, many are very nice peaceful environments with parks, but the problem is that we live in a lot of them and as such you're in a familiar place, whereas the objective is to get away from anything like that. This is partly why I ranted against holidays. They are actually very prescriptive.
I suggest you take one or two of those books you always intended to read, but never found the time. A stack of paper and some pencils.
I'll stop, I think you get the drift. If you're not sure, then it means you ditch it. Come on, you're not stupid, don't kid yourself. What is it they say about removing temptation?
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You'll be amazed at what will happen next. It will feel absolutely horrible and you'll be twitchy. Ugh. Bet my email has hundreds of emails. (it does). Omfg, I forgot blah! It's important I go and... (it isn't and you know it).
Almost unbelievably, the world continues to revolve despite your absence. Colleagues find alternative drinking partners. Wifes and girlfriends get a break from routines, expectations. What if there's an emergency? That's why you need your mobile, no? No. There is no emergencies. I figured that out a long time ago. Emergencies are a fiction invented by telecommunications companies. Unless you are actually a paramedic, nobody needs to ring you in an 'emergency'. Statistically then, they must not really exist. I mean, if somebody in family dies, what of it? It is sad but you can't exactly do anything about it.
Also, you'll notice time dilation. While an hour at home lasted for two minutes seemingly, an hour here will feel like days. But you won't be bored, boredom, like emergencies and holidays, is also a colossal lie, I'm pretty sure your brain will find something to do, and that will likely have something to do with your life since the majority of relentless trivia has been exculpated from your environment.
So, like a snake shedding skin, you'll slowly morph into a new creature. One that actually has long term plans. As such, a wiser version of yourself. Stress you see, is ultimately caused by lack of perspective for men, lack of connection with the social environment for women. Women are about relationships and men are about ideas, that is how it has always been.
By the way, I speak from experience. I just did exactly this for three weeks. Notice if you view my posts by timestamps from 1/2 week backs, there is a gap of > 21 days between posts. Some people might imagine a 'get in touch with nature' experience or 'yeah, getting away from the rat race and realizing $$$ isn't everything...' is what we're talking about. That's not my bag at all. Fuck that hippie crap. I plotted a scheme to obtain considerable amounts of money and leverage while I was away. Go away and then come back and tell us about your thoughts.
P.S. Women can do this too, if they have the urge to, with positive results, it's just they already have their hands held by an entire industry which caters for most of their needs, so I didn't see much reason to sugarcoat it.
tldr; Go on holiday. A real one.