Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: alwaystrying on March 13, 2012, 11:40 pm
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Iv known people to dabble in cocaine and heroin for around 5+ years. i have myself. In this time, i have known more people with a coke/crack addiction. even so, the percentage is very very low. Mostly only in the substance abusers (the types you can even spot when smoking weed). in this time, i still know people who will go out and drink down the bars pubs most weekends and have some coke with them.
so let me start by saying i know it can vary from person to person, depending a lot of a persons favourite feeling and pysiology.
but in your guys opinions and experience, which has the higher addiction potential? how do you deal with it? which has been harder to give up for you? or like me (for the time being at least) have you never had a problem with either...
i realise the problem with addiction is forgetting the seriousness of what you do, i find that by keeping it in mind- ive been able to keep myself out of trouble. Has any of this ever been a problem for you?
just looking for general feedback and thoughts really.
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If you want help giving up an addiction put yourself into rehab, simple.
Otherwise you regulate by working out the dosage and it's half-life, get a time-lock safe, have drug testing kits and a fully charged cellphone, food/water for some drugs like the amphetamine class.
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are you suggesting physical addiction can not form as long as the drug doesnt stay in somebody's system for a set amount of time? How long do you think this is?
And still, the half-life can pass, but dependency can still form surely? and far more importantly than the physical problems is the psychological addiction. thats a lot harder to determine.
dont get me wrong, i agree an addiction of any nature is down to ones own self to deal with. But even still, do you not think addiction is more complicated than that?
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Just my experiences not speaking for anyone else.
Cocaine was easier to kick compared to heroin;
When I was 18 my father kicked me out of the house. There was I guy I worked with who offered me to live with him and his girlfriend after I had already been sleeping in my car. Needless to say I moved in with them. Before I moved in I did not know they were operating a crack house to support their opiate addictions. Literally everyday D (the guy I was living with) and I would run down to the city to grab between an ounce and a QP of coke to cook up, meanwhile T (D's girl) was staying home slinging.
The first two weeks staying at D and T's place I stayed away from everything as I was VERY against all drugs. After that period I could not resist taking a hit off the pipe since I was already tweaking due to all of the crack smoke from everyone picking up and using there. Once I started I quickly esclated my use to at least a ball a day usually two or three within another week or two. I lived there for almost a year before I decided to start college and within 3 I moved in with some friends I met at college.
I instantly gave up all the coke and moved away to college and never looked back, that is until I had my dance with opiates.
I have been known to take a vicoden or two here and there to get a buzz on since my junior year of high school. Hell that was no big deal and I bet I could still be on that boat if it were not for Oxycotin (FUCK OXY). I don't know where or when I was introduced to Oxy but I estimate I was using oxy for 4 years before the infamous switch to OP's at which point my tolerance was sky high and my will to quit was nil. I hooked up with my first heroin dealer shortly after the switch. Within a month I was injecting using gross amounts daily.
After almost three years of daily heroin use I decided it was time to quit. I've said I was going to quit a handful of times previously but after two or three days withdrawal got the best of me. This last time I said I'm quitting I tried, I made it my three days and it was just unbearable anymore I couldn't do it. I wanted to quit though, I didn't like the money wasted, I just wanted out. I knew I couldn't do it on my own I had to get on maintenance. I am now on subutex, have been for almost two years, it's hell trying to break this cycle.
With coke I was able to quit on a whim, I just wanted out of it and got away. Never looked back on it, I mean I have used it since but that was limited to a weekend here or there, nothing daily and no running weekends. Cocaine is all mental with my experience, I just needed to think I wanted out and just stay away. The first couple of days weren't great but not bad, they were nothing like heroin withdrawal. Heroin day by day just gets worse and worse. It's just not mental its physical as well. It starts with a heavy head and just progresses. You get a plethora of symptoms that just get worse such as the heavy head, restless legs, cold sweats, insomnia, panic attacks, the list goes on.
I've been shot twice now and would rather having both gunshot wounds at the same time than go through heroin withdrawal!
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shit man, im sorry to hear!
good on you for realizing the problem and getting on the subutex! wish you the best for the future.
I hope you don't mind me asking, did you find opiates easier to gain the addiction? or was it a case that once it all began, it was just that much harder to stop?
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A strange thing, I posted a reply, but it has disappeared. I don't think it's moderation. It seems odd.
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I've never been addicted to either but my brother was to opiates and they are the worst withdrawal you will ever experience. If I'm correct, although rare, they have the potential to kill you from the withdrawal alone. I'd say heroin addiction is another world.
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A strange thing, I posted a reply, but it has disappeared. I don't think it's moderation. It seems odd.
i think its still there? in between my two posts?
in fact, you were the first to reply i think? or did you again?
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I've never been addicted to either but my brother was to opiates and they are the worst withdrawal you will ever experience. If I'm correct, although rare, they have the potential to kill you from the withdrawal alone. I'd say heroin addiction is another world.
Benzo/alcohol withdrawal's far worse.
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Yeah a major benzo habit is the worst thing ever. Wouldn't wish that shit on anyone.
And I've heard alcohol withdrawal is even worse
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A strange thing, I posted a reply, but it has disappeared. I don't think it's moderation. It seems odd.
i think its still there? in between my two posts?
in fact, you were the first to reply i think? or did you again?
It was a reply to you 2nd reply, so no.
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are you suggesting physical addiction can not form as long as the drug doesnt stay in somebody's system for a set amount of time? How long do you think this is?
No, I'm saying that you need to know the half-life to calculate future dosage or you'll accidentally OD. The time it takes depends on the drug, there should be specific data online. New users are inclined to OD because they don't start slow or know the correct dosage. But frequent users are also inclined to OD for several reasons, including having a high tolerance so they think the drug has had no effect/didn't work etc. High tolerances to drugs occur because people are not aware of drug half-life. It's a sneaky thing.
And still, the half-life can pass, but dependency can still form surely? and far more importantly than the physical problems is the psychological addiction. thats a lot harder to determine.
Yes. That's why you have to change the environment to prevent re-entry. Change friends/geography, anything associated with previous addiction.
dont get me wrong, i agree an addiction of any nature is down to ones own self to deal with. But even still, do you not think addiction is more complicated than that?
It's complicated psychologically and pharmacologically.
Also: sorry to hear about your trials Bupebuddy. There are some drugs which make it less likely you'll get addicted to others e.g. LSD has been shown in trials to prevent alcoholism by about 50% because of it's mood altering properties. Not suggesting you take LSD, but there are solutions out there.
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I would say cocaine is leagues above heroin in terms of addiction potential.
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when it comes to psychopharmacology and the inherent addictive potential of drugs, you must keep in mind that every is unique and some people have specific alterations in their receptors that make them more sensitive to some drugs and therefore they may find more pleasure in a certain drug than another person doing the same amount of the same drug. not only with the receptor, but also with the second messenger or kinases downstream or a phosphodiesterase... at any point along a long line for many drugs there are points which can be slightly different impacting the overall changes that lead to craving and dependence. due to signal amplification where 1 receptor activation results in thousands of downstream signals, a slight increase in activity can produce a large difference. both opiates and coke are going to be addictive though because they cause dopamine release in the motivation circuits of the brain.
also, everyone has their own personal preferences and find certain classes of drugs more enjoyable and they will be inherently more likely to become addicted to these substance than the ones they do not prefer as one can understand... if you prefer stimulants you are much more likely to use them too frequently and develop a problem then something you dont even really like. for these reasons in some ways this question is largely a personal matter, but both drugs are certainly addictive and possess the potential for severe addiction if one is not careful.
the person that just posted before me feel cocaine is more addictive, but i would say opiates are so much more addictive there is no competition. i have been on week long binges of coke but just stop easily and have no real interest in continuing. However, i did opiates occasionally then stated with oxy on the weekends and by then it was too late... now years later after daily use and the only thing i have never been able to quit are oxycodone and H unfortunately. i have just been able to stop everything else except maybe weed but have never needed to try, including cigs, mdma, benzos and coke all from daily use for at least a couple months. opiates are a completely different story!
the key is moderation and not using anything too frequently. at least this way you wont get physically dependent to anything and the psychological pull wouldnt be too strong. just please be careful if you are going to experiment with any drugs and make sure to do your research on the compound before! drugs can be used safely if you are just cautious and use your head.
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I've never experimented with heroin. I know I have an "addictive personality". Coke is my drug of choice. I would be interested in hearing what you consider too frequent use, dependency, and addiction.
I generally buy a few 8-balls a month and binge on them alone. I used to share but have gotten to the point where I felt taken advantage of. So, I pick up an 8-ball yesterday (about 24 hours ago), and have been doing it continuously since then. No sleep. I put some personal plans on hold to enjoy this binge. At this point, I've only done about 1.5g so I don't feel I'm a heavy user...but I would like an opinion from someone with experience and education in this area.
Here's the real kicker...I'm an epileptic and over 50 years old. I'm generally in good health, no heart or weight problems, and the use of coke has never triggered a seizure. Mine are the grand-mal type but only happen during sleep or periods of falling asleep or being startled awake. I know what you might be thinking....this guy is just plain stupid! But seriously, alcohol has caused me more problems than coke ever did.
My current binge will be over soon but I intend on getting another 8-ball in here by next weekend. Several things to celebrate.
Any thoughts?
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Short term coke is more addicting because you want it immediatley, but after a come down and the next day you feel normal where as heroin addiction is a long term addiction that is developed over a few weeks maybe months depending on the frequency and amount used.
I personally think being a heroin addict is worse, because I was for 3 years. I have smoked my far shair of crack and binged on an ounce of coke, but never did coke for more thand 3 days in a row where as heroin it was an everyday occurrence and I literally would no matter what find a way to get my dope any way possible. A mountain couldn't of stopped me. Even if it was 2 am one of my guys wasn't answering and I knew where he lived I would be at the door and windows knocking until I got an answer and my dope.
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http://www.drugs-forum.com/photopost/data/641/Nutt_D_King.png
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Heroin and oxys are in my opionin the best but also the most addicting drug. Nothing compares to being in what I call the loop. IT goes like this your high your good then you come down then you not only want more YOU GET FUCKIGN SICK AS HELL. All it takes to instantly bring you out w/d is a little h or blue pill. THe mental and physical factor make it the hardest drug to conquer.
ITs a revolving door get high find more find more find more find more no more sick sick sick high high high find more find more.
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You also have to take into account the amount of people that use Bing compared to those using Smack. If you look at the ratios of casual and recreational users to addicts you will see that Smack is muuuuuch higher.
I'm going to do some Bing now lol....
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I have personally been addicted to both crack cocaine and heroin. I smoked crack every day for about 9-10 months, but eventually decided to quit, and aside from some strong cravings for the first couple weeks, it wasn't really bad at all.
A few years later, I started using heroin. It was just recreational, a few times a week. After a couple months it turned into doing it 3-4 days in a row sometimes. Sure enough, one day I realized I was withdrawing pretty severely. I did it daily for about 3 years after that. I tried suboxone a few times but it never worked for me. I eventually made my way to the methadone clinic, and it has worked for me for the past 6 months. Although, I'm definitely not looking forward to getting off methadone.
Anyway, as far as which is more addictive, I'd say that in the short term crack wins out (not powder, if you think you're addicted to powder you have no idea what real addiction feels like), because you get immediate intense cravings. With heroin, the short term cravings aren't as severe, but after physical dependency is developed, it goes way past cravings. You actually get sick without it, and crack can't come close to making you feel this terrible.