Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: jollygiant on March 02, 2012, 09:03 pm
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Instawallet was great. it sucks that its shutting down.
can anyone suggest an alternative so we don't have to go from exchange -> SR ?
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can anyone suggest an alternative so we don't have to go from exchange -> SR ?
The Bitcoin client works perfectly well over Tor. So long as the wallet.dat file is encrypted (or wiped after emptied), it shouldn't be traceable back to you.
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After a few minutes of frustration and loathing, running to instawallet to remove the couple btc spread between accts, I decided to figure out an alternative to use as my anonymous proxy between the exchange and Road.
I never figured out the btc client since I basically just buy coins and then straight to the road to be spent.
For online longer term secure storage, I have used strongcoin but every withdrawal incurs a one percent fee and btc are already expensive enough.
I found a site called (https) btcbuckets.com which looks almost like an exact copy of instawallet except with a few additional feature. It just went live on the 12th of Feb and I have not sent any coins through it yet, so I would definitely do a test run with a coin and make sure you can withdraw properly from the site...
Good luck,
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Thanks microRNA, appreciate the tip
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Poor instawallet. It makes me a sad panda -.-
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I decided to figure out an alternative to use as my anonymous proxy between the exchange and Road.
Instawallet does not anonymise you from your BTC!
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Came here looking for this thread, was not disappointed. Then I saw no one had given any alternative (except for running your own wallet and one site which was newly opened). So I'm wondering. Is it fine sending to bitfog directly from the exchange or is it somehow traceable as "being sent to bitfog" which, obviously, could point to something fishy going on?
Edit: Also, BtcBuckets requires javascript to be enabled to be able to click the send-link, which I'm not comfortable with.
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That sucks about JS and the send button
Maybe anonymous wasnt the correct word, I just liked sending to an online wallet only associated with tor first then onward. What would you recommend then?
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An anonymous mixer such as Bitcoin Fog.
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Anybody who uses the buckets should realize that they expire as well (maybe only TWO days as default, check for sure), so you need to set them up appropriately and it also has a .0005 btc fee per transaction
Oh, yea I definitely wasnt saying that instawallet was a tumbler, but they do pool the bitcoins and then pull them out of the pool at least.
How long does bitcoin fog take? The 1 - 3 percent fee is a bummer though, are there any cheaper mixers that anyone knows of?
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Takes about 6-8 hours in my experience, and yes it is expensive.
Also interested in any alternatives that anyone can suggest!!
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Well there's always the choice of creating an account under a fake name on an exchange that's accessible via Tor. So you could go to someplace like Intersango, which I think is still accessible from Tor, create an account, and send your 'coins there before you send 'em to SR.
Just a thought, but it might work if the exchange doesn't charge a percentage to get or send Bitcoins.
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Intersango's founders have spoken out against SR and have voiced full throat-ed support for Senator Schummer's efforts. If one is to use a "rogue" exchange for tossing coins, perhaps the Bulgarians (BTC-e.com) or Russians (BTC-ex.com) are a better bet.
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So sad to see Instawallet gone. I wouldn't be surprised if an identical service pops up soon since there is such high demand for one. Crossing my fingers.
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Intersango's founders have spoken out against SR and have voiced full throat-ed support for Senator Schummer's efforts. If one is to use a "rogue" exchange for tossing coins, perhaps the Bulgarians (BTC-e.com) or Russians (BTC-ex.com) are a better bet.
+1 for that update P-O-M. I'll now find an alternative to using Intersango as a way to mask the trail of Bitcoins to SR. Still, I hate having to find other intermediate sites to send Bitcoins to. Some of these sites are here today & gone tomorrow ~~ & sometimes when they shut down they take all the Bitcoins that are deposited.
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anyone have success with btcbuckets yet?
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correct me if I'm wrong here (I have never created my own wallet)...
Can't you create an endless amount of wallets (wallet.dat)?
From your favorite exchange > half wallet01 -> half wallet02
wallet01 --> half wallet03
wallet01 --> half wallet04
wallet02 --> half wallet05
wallet02 --> hallfwallet06
...and so on until your fingers are numb
then all the wallets into SR.
Is this practical?
And another hair brained idea.. you could ssh to a vps / free anon shell then socks proxy your http over the ssh connection to your favorite exchange or bounce around the tor network?
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...wasnt saying that instawallet was a tumbler, but they do pool the bitcoins and then pull them out of the pool...
Precisely.
And if you leave "your" coins in the pool long enough they're used to pay someone else's withdrawal from the pool. When you eventually withdraw, the coins you get will be "somebody else's" from the pool.
Pools, *if used correctly*, do just fine at "laundering" bitcoins. For reasons unknown, this appears to be a particularly difficult concept for some to master.
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So in the past (as i'd imagine a lot of us have) i've run getbitcoin > instawallet x10 >SR. Say i needed to make a BTC purchase right now (no time or money for a tumbler) and i bank deposited with getbitcoin. Would it be unwise to then have the btc sent directly to SR? With bank deposits, isn't it only traceable back to you if they go to the bank for the surveillance footage? Which I wouldn't think would be very likely or worthwhile in my estimation for however many thousands of small time buyers. Apparently instawallet doesn't make you anonymous whatsoever anyway!
Are the viable alternatives at the moment, aside from the bank deposit > SR , to just use btcbucket or does anyone have a dissuading argument against both options?
Hopefully we get some feedback and figure out a btc pool we can trust, but goddamn.. right now i'm at a loss for how to approach this.
Would it be better to just use a SR btc vendor?? haha I never thought I'd say that..
Edit: for the record, i'm weary of directly installing the BTC application on my PC as it's not usable with liberte or tails and based on my experience it leaves quite the trail on one's PC (time, bandwidth and space)
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I have come up with a few more alternatives to instawallet. Each of these are eWallets, and my goal was to find wallets (which I think are accessible through, though I have only checked a few with actual accts!) without fees (or very small) for depositing and withdrawing btcs. Not sure if they are pooled but many are I think as well.
*I am not a security expert, probably the opposite compared to some, so this is not saying any of these are safe*
*Please do your your own tests with a small amount of btc to ensure all of these function properly. I have not sent btc through any of these yet*
The first I mentioned was btcbuckets.com which is similar to instawallet with more features but a .0005 btc w/d fee. the buckets also expire, after which no new funds can be depsited, and current fund get spilled to another address. default two days and their pocketbook??? can be edited for up to a year and your own address i assume. someone mentioned javascript was required to send possibly. instant free transfers between buckets i think
There are two exchanges, one called Camp BX and the other crypto x change. I am not sure if these wallets work through tor but there are no fees for btc tranfers
there is a betting site called btcsportsbet.com that has a wallet, registering acct doesnt require the email address to be entered, and no transfer fees
another similar site is for tipping called youtipit has a wallet with no fees
the group responsible for intersango has a free ewallet at vibanko.com but someone reported intersango (or someone associated?) are outspokenly protesting the Road
strong coin is probably the most secure cause you can even take your own coins out via a dat file and is double password protected. however, this service does not pool your coins therefore I dont believe, and they also charge a 1 % fee on withdrawal
Finally there is flexcoin, which claims to be the first btc bank. transfers between accts are free and instant I believe but withdrawals cost .01 btc or .5 % whichever is more, however there is something like interest on the accts where the fees are partially paid back or something... i didnt really read into it and they also require and email to verify possibly
If anyone has any other recommendations or experience with any of these wallets please post! Thank you. Good luck
- microRiboNucleicAcid
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I may consider hosting an alternative.
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btcsportsbet also presumably needs javascript to enter a receiving address as it won't let you push the button to add one w/ js off.
is it such a bad idea to go bank deposit > get-btc> SR address?
As i mentioned, it doesn't sound like instawallet was much of an annonymous tool anyway.
would bank deposit> bitinstant > mtgox > SR be any safer anyway?
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Using the bitcoin client through tor or an online wallet further obfuscates the path the coins traveled, offering more deniability than if there is a straight line from your bank to SR, you have a bigger problem.
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Using the bitcoin client through tor or an online wallet further obfuscates the path the coins traveled, offering more deniability than if there is a straight line from your bank to SR, you have a bigger problem.
I see. So but if you had an annoymous deposit at a bank other than your own, would you be traceable anyway?
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btcsportsbet also presumably needs javascript to enter a receiving address as it won't let you push the button to add one w/ js off.
You could use a proxy server's javascript through TOR. It will serve up the proxy server's ip address instead, if the script is intended to catch you out etc. N.B. Never enable your javascript on your machine!
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btcsportsbet also presumably needs javascript to enter a receiving address as it won't let you push the button to add one w/ js off.
You could use a proxy server's javascript through TOR. It will serve up the proxy server's ip address instead, if the script is intended to catch you out etc. N.B. Never enable your javascript on your machine!
ah how i wish i was as savy as you pine.. i gave it a pretty good shot trying multiple proxies but it still didn't let me enter the receiving address.. i really wish i had more time to study up on the intracacies of anonymity.
I think i'll just stick with annon bank deposit > getbtc > SR... at least for now, as no one seemed outraged by the idea so far..
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update:
btcsportsbet and btcbuckets require javascript so those are no goes unfortunately
Camp BX looked good but then required an email and would not accept tormail so I bailed.
Could not get cypto x change to work when trying to submit the registration info
Fortunately, test runs through TOR have been successful with coins at Vibanko
maybe we have a winner, dont know if it is pooling the coins though?
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If anyone is curious, I was able to signup for flexcoin thru TOR. They seem to have low fees and interesting options, you can email people bitcoins. I don't know if they pool.
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What about using a Blockchain.info wallet? I set one up using my tormail account, and can access it through TOR. They have an optional fee of .0005 BTC. Whould it be feasible to set up a couple accounts through them to tumble your coins?
This is the message you get about the fee when sending coins:
"This transaction is low priority. It is recommended you include at least a 0.0005 BTC transaction fee in order to ensure miners process it. If you do not include any fee this transaction may take a long time to get included in a block. "
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The Instawallet's greatest feature was ability to obfuscate the transactions in blockchain. You deposit coins, the coins are withdrawn by another user, you withdraw someones else coins or combination of them. Using Bitcoin software on your computer with or without Tor is no difference, the transactions on blockexplorer will be the same. And Yes, I was using instawallet exclusively trough Tor.
Hope instawallet owner succeeds in selling it and new owners are as pro-liberty as he was.
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I'm using blockchain wallet
I have made several succesful transfers
https://blockchain.info/wallet
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thanks for the updates, can you do internal immediate transfers between accts on that site?
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The last 2 transactions to SR from blockchain wallet took about 1 hour for each of the transactions. It was not instant but the hour wait is acceptable (to me)
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The last 2 transactions to SR from blockchain wallet took about 1 hour for each of the transactions. It was not instant but the hour wait is acceptable (to me)
does blockchain not require JS to be enabled to make a password or:
a) my browser is being difficult
b) you sign up through clearweb?
c) used a proxy
if anyone chose the proxy, are there any good ones you'd recomend? I've had shit luck trying themout with JS actually working.
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Instawallet broke my heart today :'(
Seriously, I loved Instawallet. What a great site.
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I was actually asking if transfers between two accounts both BE wallets were instant, as instawallet was... this is an indication the bitcoins come from a communal pool for the site rather than individually maintained wallets and no shared coins.
audacity, vibanko works fine through tor without javascript for the entire registration process, its the only one i checked myself that would work.
didnt check for pooling though for vibanko cause i was in a rush for lexis new product... cant fucking wait for these two new dank kush strains.
still havent checked flexcoin but someone else reported it worked. i think transfers between flexcoin accts are instant which may mean it pools the coins and provides increased obfuscation of the path there is a small fee however for each withdrawal to SR
good luck everyone!
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Everyone will be happy to know it looks like instawallet will be back online by monday. :D
As a matter of fact, it appears to be online right now. The message that Jan posted is gone and new addresses are being issued.
Story here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67602.0
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Everyone will be happy to know it looks like instawallet will be back online by monday. :D
As a matter of fact, it appears to be online right now. The message that Jan posted is gone and new addresses are being issued.
Story here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67602.0
Elated!...Stumped...Questioning...Skeptical...reasearch....Elated!!!
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Everyone will be happy to know it looks like instawallet will be back online by monday. :D
As a matter of fact, it appears to be online right now. The message that Jan posted is gone and new addresses are being issued.
Story here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67602.0
Hmm... I better keep up with this. Anyone else using something else besides IW to transfer to SR? I might check out Block Chain to see how this goes.
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That is some awesome news... i am still kinda skeptical though at first, will check again to make sure its working properly. and wish I hadnt wasted so much time finding an alternative :) Oh well, instawallet wont load for me now and the more convoluted the path the better imo
Zerobin you can also use vibanko.com, it has been confirmed to work although i do not think the coins are pooled as with instawallet
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how do we know LE isn't the buyer? ;)
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Everyone will be happy to know it looks like instawallet will be back online by monday. :D
As a matter of fact, it appears to be online right now. The message that Jan posted is gone and new addresses are being issued.
Story here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67602.0
Elated!...Stumped...Questioning...Skeptical...reasearch....Elated!!!
I will b exploring other avenues until the dust settles a little.
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https://blockchain.info/wallet/ <-----no fee (trustworthy also)
bitcoin-central.net is going to take over instawallet.org Monday the 12th.