Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: vortexmilkman on February 26, 2012, 12:02 pm
-
:-X
Hello all.
Due to a certain private incident, that snowballed into a public spectacle, I feel the need to clear the air.
Before I get into the details, I want to admit that even though I KNOW I did no wrong to the accusing client, and feel like I am correct in my reasoning... and he is the "bad guy"........ I AM WRONG.
I AM WRONG and was way too hot-headed at the end of the day.
Why? Because I let a nobody troll get the best of me and broke an important SR tenet.
However, NOTHING is black and white...and this entire situation was the accuser's whole goal....to GANK my rep.
I have worked very hard to keep everyone satisfied, and out of all my hundreds of orders have only have a handful of pestlike buyers
Other pests were more broke scammers trying to get free stuff, but this stephan character orders a product, finalizes, and then ganks my rep by leaving a 1...and lies and said something about how he is a newbie and i had no problem taking his money but he had to finalize...and was extremely rude by not responding to any of my polite messages, none of my more serious toned messages, ..
Keep in mind..... this fake feedback he left was...not even hours after finalizing...and nowhere close to even receiving the product.....
so how can he rate anything hours after finalizing an order?
BS
NOW THIS IS AN ISSUE......WHAT PROTECTION DO WE VENDORS HAVE FROM A LIAR OR AN ADVERSARY with intentions of damaging feedback and creating false public alarm and judgments against me.
All my fellow vendors with as much business as me, or more know the extreme frustration of dealing with flakers/scammers and pests, and having one fool ruin your rep.....
What the public doesnt know is the several warnings and messages and polite requests damn near BEGGING him to reply to me and explain the issue.
I explained the importance of rating and how its unfair to destroy my business when he never received and finalized out of his own decision.
Still, no response after SEVERAL requests and msgs.........so figured only way to get his attention was to sent a bunch of angry msgs and threats and reported him to report to SR...only then he replied.....and only then to tell me he is going to "out" me since i threatened........(keep in my order his already was already out and no records of anyone's address is kept, ...more for my security as i have dozens a day)
I understand peoples concern for this matter and would like to use this incident as a reminder to myself that I cannot let anyone get the best of me, as it can affect me, and spiral into something that was never intended to be.
Immediately after he responded, I even went as far as asking if i had to spam him and threaten him just to get his attention.
This was taken WAY out of context and blown up as if I was sitting there ready to actually do anything to a 0/0 buyer who ordered a small amount.
I have lost much more in my time, and immediately replied to the stephan guy that it was all bs and he should have been receiving any minute now anyway....so there is NO issue at hand anymore.
I WAS AT FAULT for blowing up...I should have realized he wasnt responding, not going to respond, and not going to change anything , and let SR admin deal with it.
Just wondering why it took reporting him to the SR admin and several threats to finally get his attention to the matter?
This has no bearing on anyone elses order....at the end of the day hes receiving his product safe-n sound.
No threats, no problem, its all fixed.
Feedback is supposed to be used to inform the public about ACTUAL experience.....not a whiny complaint and fake lies just cuz u got MAD YOU FINALIZED THE ORDER YOURSELF and was "unhappy".
the whole root of this issue is.....Something needs to be done to protect vendors from false feedback....
until then, I will stand and take the wrath for my hotheadedness....
Many more orders to fill, HOPE TO STAY AND SERVE THE COMMUNITY AS LONG AS I CAN.
~
V
-
Boohoo. Sellers fuck over buyers, buyers screw over sellers. At least sellers make a profit and can mitigate some of their loses that way (and they're doing it, seeing we pay premium here on SR). In the end we're all taking risks and having problems, but it's ESPECIALLY up to sellers to take it like a man and not behave like a whining little child. You're supposed to be the professional, not the junkie.
-
Thanks for your comment jochem.
-
Obviously you don't know what it's like......you think he is the only pest I have to deal with?
Hah
If I just sit back and dont do anything about it.....I am the fool....letting someone leave a fake 1 review for days is bad......bad on his part.
Bad on my part for flipping out...but what else could I do when he doesnt respond to any messages and basically laughs in my face as if he can operate with impunity.
Again, things out of context is none of your concern.
What is of your concern, is my current output of successful transactions....
I have had buyers threaten me, discuss LEO, talk about destroying my business, all because their order was 2 days late......did I create a scene?
.......
-
"Threat:
a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done :"
At the end of the whole situation what is happening to the guy I "threatened" ?
Oh....right, he ganks my rep, walks away scott-free after he receives my finest meth, gets to get high and order again from someone else no problem.
Now I have useless people like jochem quick to judge and shit....go ahead......judge and draw conclusions......dont care....i am not going to sit idle while someone ruins my rep....he got what he wanted and that is the whole SR community to give him a hug and tell him he's right and make me out to be the bad guy.
It's all good, I will use this incident and learn fro it to better manage my anger towards obvious fools.
V
-
Even though he is probably a fuckwad there really isn't any possible way to say "Give me a higher score or I will call the cops on you" and not look like the bad guy.
-
It took a lot of courage to come clean like that. I think many Silk Road members will appreciate that you did.
I don't think that there is anything that can be done about rogue buyers. It's an inherent risk of any business.
But what Vendors should always be mindful of is that there are far more good and honest buyers out there whose honest feedback will overshadow any anomalous feedback left buy rogue buyers. While having a feedback rating of 100% is awesome, a benchmark to strive towards, having 97.5% or higher (give or take a few tenths of a percent) is considered plenty reliable. Buyers know that there is risk in any transaction. Even with those sterling vendors who have very close if not at 100% feedback. Lots of variables between obtaining bitcoins to delivery to quality of product that are outside the control of any one individual. Moreover, Vendors are human and mistakes can and will happen. We as buyers know that and account for it.
Add to that the escrow system, for those of us buyers that actually use it, helps to further minimize the risk of a transaction and allows us to take a chance on a Vendor whose feedback rating may give pause for concern.
Lastly, we buyers also take into account the latest feedback trend. If we see a string of current low ratings, that indicates to us that there is presently something off with the Vendor and that we should avoid the Vendor until we start to see a trend of positive feedback. But if we see one negative feedback amidst a trend of positive feedback, it will appear to us as an isolated incident that will have little if any bearing on the expected experience of our transaction.
I hope these points will help you going forward.
Yes, what you did breaks a tenet of Silk Road.
Yes, what you did undermines the trust that many place in the system.
Yes, what you did exposes the potential vulnerability of buyers that buyers take for granted.
And yes, what you did will likely cost you some business in the short term. You may even lose a few regular clients.
But that you have come clean and admitted your transgressions while trying to assure the community that this will never happen again, nor will you keep sensitive information or use it as leverage, may engender a restored confidence in Silk Road and perhaps even in you. It is a shame what has transpired, but it is not something that cannot be overcome.
Please remember that the Silk Road is more than just a marketplace. It is a movement. A community of like minded souls coming together to overcome the restrictions society has placed on us. One in which should not collapse from the inside out, but rather the outside in.
I wish you well going forward.
-
Even though he is probably a fuckwad there really isn't any possible way to say "Give me a higher score or I will call the cops on you" and not look like the bad guy.
I didnt say "give me a higher score or ill call the cops"
I asked him to please reply repeatedly about the fake 1 he left
-
Meth is one hell of a drug i heard
-
Everybody makes mistakes, it's just that you don't repeat them again and again.
I'm sure if VMM continues his service at a consistently reliable level as he has done in the past, that all will be forgiven as far the community is concerned. Being a vendor can be a stressful activity, it's not like selling on Ebay (even though that too can be frustrating!).
It's all just part of life I'm afraid, people with cold feet exist in every walk of life and business, it's not just here by any means, it's just intensified here because of the nature of this market is more anxiety provoking.
This is why the buyer and seller both have to conform to a high level of professionalism, little well defined rituals if you like that seemingly don't have anything to do with the business , so this kind of thing is less likely. The human animal loves consistency and uniformity when they are uncertain about anything, it's like gold to them.
tldr; Learn from the experience, move on, don't think about the other guy too much etc
-
Regardless of the circumstances, I feel this deserves the "Silk Road Death Penalty."
I think VMM should lose his vendors account as punishment for this behavior.
Can he open up a new account right away for $150? Sure, there isn't anything anybody could do to stop him, that's how this place works. But this sort of behavior simply cannot be tolerated, and the most aggressive stance possible needs to be taken.
That said, I'm sure the customer was an ass, and I'm sure VMM regrets his reaction. Still doesn't justify it.
-
I think alot of people are assuming you kept there addresses and that worries alot of people as rules say vendors are to discard them after shipping.I myself also think that threatning buyers with the police is a bullshit thing to do If I lived near you and you threatened me I would tear your heart out and feed it to you.
Now part 2
I know you vendors do your best to help us all and I thank you for that (with out you vendors we would be screwed for what we want) no matter what vendors will always have some cheap son of a b!%$# try and get extra for free(this is human nature) Some how there has to be away that vendors can be protected from asshole buyers if the vendors decide to close shop here then whats the sense of use shopping on here if every vendor decides this guy is a clown or a thief.
Part 3
Maybe SR should request buyers to have a minimum amount of Bitcoins in there account before being eligible to purchase also They should be able to hold the account till funds trade and customers are satisfied.If customers have 2 repeat orders where they claim they were ripped off SR takes it from the seller and returns funds and removes the buyer as a possible scammer and they no longer have access to purchase
BigBill6778
-
I'm not pointing my finger at anybody with this statement.
But why the fuck can't people just be cool? SR is a great opportunity to do some things that aren't really possible in the real world and you have a certain % of people (I'd say small) that just have to cause drama and try and fuck with people. People who are selfish and want to stir up shit. I know everybody has their own type crazy going on but I just don't get why people can't be human with others? I'm going through a scammer vendor situation right now and I just don't understand the mindset of people who literally set out to fuck people over. I know it happens all the time but whenever I see it, it just fucks with me internally. I know the world isn't utopian so it shouldn't shock me but it always does and bothers me. People need to grow the fuck up and treat others with respect.
#RantOver
-
Well,I can already tell this is going to be a big problem.....awesome timing....right as I restocked with over 4 zips of chunky shards im sitting here with no seller status and am prepared to leave, if necessary..
I have my biz that will flourish with or without SR, but this was a nice venture and I enjoyed my time here.
Too many pests, scammers, and people ready to go to SR admin and put me on the chopping block when its them who started the bullshit.
WHY couldnt the dude just have patience and sit back and receive his order instead of creating a brouhaha.....?
It is a shame since I have hundred of perfect transactions but one member had to try to fuck me over and it snowballed into something else now affecting my business....and other peoples orders....
Very frustrated and tired and out of patience dealing with a whole pool of whiny, kids who think its their RIGHT to demand and treat sellers with disrespect.
We are humans too and react when backed into a corner.
..it was a lose/lose situation.....sit there with a fake 1 feedback affecting business...or go nuts and have him "out" me publicly and ruin shit...either way he gets what he wants....no more VMM.
I have 2K+ in pending orders.....gonna handle that and hope for the best......
Was nice knowing you all and I enjoyed my time here.....not too sure what is to happen from here on in.
If the people don't want me here and my business is affected....right now im not even a seller anymore.....
I will judge and see if its best to leave and live my life and not cause any more problems with these new wave of selfish, conniving buyers.....i certainly dont want to leave but i cant be put in the position ive been put in ever again.
V
-
In all sincerity, best wishes to you in your future endeavors.
-
I understand your frustration VMM especially when a buyer does not respond to PM's and will trash your feedback without wanting any mediation.
This buyer got exactly what he wanted. You suspended, doubt, fear etc
Its the new age troll/scammer. They have evolved. Finalize early and fuck over a vendor. They dont want your coin or your product...they want you.
ATM SR does NOTHING to protect a vendor from these pricks. Vendors had to resort to selling ebooks and lotteries to boost their feedback back up to something respectable. Now I dont think a vendor can do that anymore.
Got a problem with a troll buyer? dont bother SR about it. All you will hear are crickets...
IMO Vendors need to see buyers previous feedback. Fuck off this buyers rating BS... it means nothing anymore.
my 2c
-
as a seller I sit here checking my status almost like I am some crazy person with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder!
eventually I know someone will give me a bad review, regardless of how well I do my job.
it would kill me to have anything less than 100 by my name but inevitably that will happen... mainly because you can;t please everyone.
Just do the best job you can and any reasonable person will see that one bad review out of hundreds of good ones is not grounds to pick another seller...
either way good luck but I hope you stick around.
TJ
-
WHY couldnt the dude just have patience and sit back and receive his order instead of creating a brouhaha.....?
WHY couldn't you have resolved the problem without threatening to call the police on someone and citing their address which you saved after dispatching the order for an unknown reason? Nothing you say can justify your actions, if you cared that much about your business here you wouldn't have fucked it up making threats that damage the integrity of this entire website. The difference in business from one negative/false feedback is negligible. You made your bed, stop coming back here to whine at us.
-
I'm shocked that the SR community is making excuses for this tragic breach of security. I'm even more shocked that this vendor is spitting venom on his way out, instead of accepting responsibility for his malfunctions.
-
"Nothing you say can justify your actions"
I fully concur. And no one else should try to do the same.
+1
-
WHY couldnt the dude just have patience and sit back and receive his order instead of creating a brouhaha.....?
WHY couldn't you have resolved the problem without threatening to call the police on someone and citing their address which you saved after dispatching the order for an unknown reason? Nothing you say can justify your actions, if you cared that much about your business here you wouldn't have fucked it up making threats that damage the integrity of this entire website. The difference in business from one negative/false feedback is negligible. You made your bed, stop coming back here to whine at us.
-
WHY couldnt the dude just have patience and sit back and receive his order instead of creating a brouhaha.....?
WHY couldn't you have resolved the problem without threatening to call the police on someone and citing their address which you saved after dispatching the order for an unknown reason? Nothing you say can justify your actions, if you cared that much about your business here you wouldn't have fucked it up making threats that damage the integrity of this entire website. The difference in business from one negative/false feedback is negligible. You made your bed, stop coming back here to whine at us.
If you read the fucking OP he did try and resolve it and got nothing.
We all know he would not have called the police so STOP making a fucking issue out of it.
One vendor fucks up and all of a sudden this "damages the integrity of the entire site."??
How about the 1000+ buyers right now working at doing the same thing to a vendor as this buyer did to VMM?
-
I'm shocked that the SR community is making excuses for this tragic breach of security.
Wait, where did you read that anyone was making excuses for his actions? Is there another thread about this that wasn't locked?
I'm even more shocked that this vendor is spitting venom on his way out, instead of accepting responsibility for his malfunctions.
Well, I'm not surprised because he's mad at the system and how it favors buyers even at the expense of sellers. This conversation has been going on for months now with various parties offering solutions from the simple to the Draconian. I'm in favor of the simple solution - that being a buyer rating system that's just like the seller rating system. The inherent problem with that is that some sellers will use it to hold a buyer hostage who has a legitimate issue. But I'm sure something could be worked out to prevent that.
-
Really staggering there are people defending this guy. He threatened to call the police on someone, he retained their address and used it to intimidate them, these are the facts. Should Silk just ignore it when people report threats like this? Should this guy have been allowed to keep his account after SR saw he threatened to call the police on someone, or should we rely on the subjective opinion of some idiot on a forum to decide if he should keep it or not? I thought you people were smarter than this.
-
If you read the fucking OP he did try and resolve it and got nothing.
We all know he would not have called the police so STOP making a fucking issue out of it.
You're way out of line. We do NOT know those things, and you have no right to demand silence from somebody on this forum.
-
@lex
Who is defending him? I must have missed it.
I saw some posts that were empathetic though. Nothing wrong with that. Good human beings tend to be empathetic.
This incident highlights the need for a buyer feedback system or some other agreeable method to allow for better vendor redress.
-
Really staggering there are people defending this guy. He threatened to call the police on someone, he retained their address and used it to intimidate them, these are the facts. Should Silk just ignore it when people report threats like this? Should this guy have been allowed to keep his account after SR saw he threatened to call the police on someone, or should we rely on the subjective opinion of some idiot on a forum to decide if he should keep it or not? I thought you people were smarter than this.
+1 No matter what the circumstances once you've crossed the line and committed the cardinal sin in your profession you have have to be held liable..this sets precedent as to what things will be tolerated. And people, what the fuck are we talking about here, did you guys forget that what we are doing is illegal! Furthermore emphasizing the enormity of said admitted transgression. Hey it's not the end of the world for vortex..it just seems SR is not his cup of tea. Haven't you ever heard the saying " if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen".
-
First of all, to summarize I have admitted my WRONG for going nuts on him,.
No one is "whining"......no one "retained" any records......I shipped his product out literally less than an HOUR to seeing his wonderful feedback.
he finalized and i got his shit out in less than an hour...return and see his feedback......do i have to have the memory of an elephant to remember the city and state he ordered from in case he ever tried another stunt?
This issue IS resolved.....what is unnecessary....is certain people thinking this is the end of the world and now all vendors must be investigated and can possibly harm the buyer........this is complete and utter bs.......
No one but me, the accuser and SR knows the true details of this situation.
Dr gonzo...Sr is very much my cup of tea.
-
Lex, you are stupid.
Do you not understand what the purpose of a warning or a threat is?
If anyone was a rat ass snitch, Do you think I wouldve warned him, or just done it?
since I have now nothing to lose? What is preventing me from doing it right now?
OH ill tell you, what is...common sense...and the fact that his order is shipped and i have no records of his address.
The amount of business I do, keeping a list of everything is borderline retarded...
1. I dont keep records
2. I dont keep records.
3. I dont keep records.
Get it?
Again, I take full responsibility for losing my cool, and nothing has changed.
Lex, people like you do nothing to help rectify the issue, you only separate and drive us apart....I am a great vendor, and this has nothing to do with my business acumen nor my customer relations.
This guy I had to deal with was an adversary from the get-go.......I am remorseful for the events that unfolded.....but I learnt from this so I do not regret anything.
Thanks, and anyone else who supported me in the past and continues to I thank you.
V
-
VMM - I feel your pain. I know you cleaned up your shit here after a previous disaster and did so well. I can only imagine what kind of douchebaggery sellers must put up with here sometimes.
All that being said. Even in the hottest of arguments, threatening with the popos? You have to understand that no matter how much this douche aggravated and antagonized you, the mere fact that this would even cross your mind, or even that you'd blurt it out in the heat of the moment puts your entire mindset into question.
If one little douche can crawl under your skin with something as trivial as an unjust feedback, I dun wanna know how something less trivial, say the feds banging on your door for example, would shake you up.
In this thing of ours it is not how you conduct yourself in day-by-day business that defines your character and suitability, it is how you conduct yourself under the worst kind of stress that makes you the man you are.
I don't mean to add insult to injury and I genuinely regret seeing a to date reliable seller go. On the other hand though, in all openness, I have to say again that maybe it is for the best. I can honestly tell you that where I sometimes hang, just saying what you said in jest would get you killed.
If you had lost your cool and threatened the guy with coming by and bashing his head in or rolling a freight train on his girl friend with your 7 cholo buddies, I couldn't condone that either, but at least I could understand it. Douche -> aggravation -> heated response.
But them other guys in uniform, I think it is the holy grail that not even in fun, spite, rage, hate, w/e should one allow himself to even have that thought crossing their mind. Otherwise the simple conclusion is that they are dormant bombs just waiting for the right trigger to blow.
Good luck to you, all the best, no hard feelings...
-
apart from how justified it may or may not have been, you committed the SR equivalent of using the word "bomb" in the airport. as such, you are now subject to a full bombardment of castigation and cavity searches.
whether or not it was taken out of context, it's just the nature of the beast.
you are just gonna have to deal with fingers up your anus for awhile if you want to stay.
-
DUDE ! Your selling Meth. To Meth heads. Meth heads do crazy things. Like beat their parents up for no reason. It's the nature of the beast ! If you can't handle meth heads non-sense. Stop selling meth and just stick with selling weed or pills. You'll have nothing but happy customers then. 8)
-
Lol.......Fah-Q
-
ROFLMAO Fah-Q....
I was so wanting to say that but kinda dinnt wanna antagonize respectable *cough*cough* meth users on here lol....
-
People continue to say VMM kept buyers addy. Many assumptions from the great detectives believe there was a paper recording addy. I could say I'm sending cops to to your address yet that means nothing about actually having a recorded addy. I've prefered to believe this based on all I've read. So...why insist he wrote it down. This ought to give you reasonable doubt. VMM was being scary to control a shit situation. Yet, again...never meant a thing; never would have gone through with any of it. I volunteered my help because I infered from the begininng a simple newbie was fucking a vendor and it pissed me off. A 12 ranked vendor vs idiot kid.
Subdude
I feel the same way. Nonetheless, someone up in the thread said it best. Saying popo around here is like saying bomb at an airport (a US airport that is :P)
-
I feel for VMM. What was he supposed to do, just take it like a bitch? Not everyone has the patience for that, and when that's the case it's not overly surprising that something like this would happen. There's not much recourse for vendors with that type of BS outside of pleading your case to admin, which is probably a complete waste of time anyway. Reputable high-volume vendors bust their asses, and it must be infuriating when some asshat pulls a move like that and there ain't shit to be done. Of course it would have been better just to swallow pride and forge ahead instead of wrecking his brand, and VMM clearly overstepped the line and must pay one way or another. But I hardly consider this a capital offense. It was an empty threat that was basically the only leverage he saw to try and get shit right, nothing more nothing less. I've never felt compelled to buy meth but if I did, I wouldn't have any reservations about ordering from VMM in light of this event. It's just a symptom of a greater problem: buyers out to rape and pillage feedback for no good reason, and vendors with fuckall options to protect against it. Reputation is everything here, you can't blame a guy for getting defensive about his.
-
Vortex please don't leave. Silk Road has power in numbers and we need as many people as possible. Especially dedicated sellers like yourself.
Everybody else take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like a certain vendor because of the way they do business, or because of something they said, then vote with your Bitcoins and don't buy from that vendor.
-
Lol, crazy tweakers, eat a bar and light a j.
-
I'm pretty new here, so I really don't know you vmm. I will say, however, that it is nerve racking when I hear of a vendor threatening to call the police on a buyer. I can only imagine what you vendors have to put up with. I know many buyers are crass, greedy, assholes that are just looking for some free product. But I come to SR in hopes of avoiding any type of confrontation (ESPECIALLY with the police) and to conduct respectable business with like minded individuals. But threatening to call the police, whether you meant it or not...that is a major fallacy and I'm sure you understand that. Vendors take a lot of risk, but so do buyers. And for me, the biggest risk isn't my money, it's giving my address to a dealer that I DON'T KNOW. I'm sure you didn't mean it because, like you said, it was in the heat of the moment and you knew he was fucking you over. It is just unfortunate that you had to go that far. However, we ALL make mistakes so take this with stride and learn from it. I hope it all works out and I wish you the best.
-
If you read the fucking OP he did try and resolve it and got nothing.
We all know he would not have called the police so STOP making a fucking issue out of it.
You're way out of line. We do NOT know those things, and you have no right to demand silence from somebody on this forum.
lol you need to get out more.
-
Not my battle - but I have my doubts as to the buyer being a SR noob. When I first started I didn't know what to expect and I didn't have anything to base my experiences on - so everything was naively 5 stars. To illustrate my point; when I had dial up internet, I thought it was fucking great - 5 stars. Then I was on DSL - 5 stars! Then I got cable internet installed 5 stars! what do I think about dial up now? probably half a star and a trip to Walmart for a Magic Jack.
My point is: you can't look down on a ladder until you've traveled a few steps up.
For VMM: I came to the forums only after seeing you absent from listings. The event's that occured? maybe it's a blessing in disguise. Maybe you're the guy that missed the plane to paradise but then you hear on the news that it crashed in the middle of the ocean. There is one benefit from starting over: no jealous haters hating for their daily hatebrowns, toast, and hater-aid.
I'm fairly religious (and into meth lol) but even if you are remotely spiritual - I hope you can use this video
youtube.com/watch?v=zXQuOGDZn8U
click to 5:50, you will find how it relates to your specific situation.
-
DUDE ! Your selling Meth. To Meth heads. Meth heads do crazy things. Like beat their parents up for no reason. It's the nature of the beast ! If you can't handle meth heads non-sense. Stop selling meth and just stick with selling weed or pills. You'll have nothing but happy customers then. 8)
I have never tried meth ever and dont really intend to, but I have bought meth from nearly every vendor that has sold meth.
So fah-Q you stereotyping, judgmental stoner c(can we say the c word here?)t... pill popping dickhead. ;) ;D
-
Seirfmuy...thanks for the kind words.
Never said I was going anywhere....just said I would if I had to....right now im dormant for a bit, just shaking haters off and currently handling pending orders.......and will be back, better, with a new fresh mindset very soon =]
V
-
Good for you VMM...
You got the right idea, dust yourself off... get back on the horse!
Don't feed the trolls should be a lesson that's taught in schools, I've flamed myself a few times in the past... Its easy to get annoyed at tossers and idiots.
-
Not picking side...
Police would not do anything if hear some report from annonimous source even if real person go into police station and report something like that, its need a lot more to take a action then hearsay or my word against yours. And take into consideration that we are talking about buyer (stil no drugs around).
Any vendor can send something to somebody without his/her knowledge but to think that somebody would be in trouble because of that (sending by mail) is absurd, empty words and silly
How many drug dealrs IRL then can hurt somebody, they can send to your neighbour, police officer, anybody who may do something upseting, and what would happen? Nothing, so that all threating with police is BS but when you really think about it, you can see that this have no grounds.
I can have many addresses from yellow pages, so what, havins some1 address is not a crime?
Just my 2c
-
VMM has ALWAYS looked after me. Definately one of the best vendors on SR. Has had my repeat business for months and never let me down!
Fuck the haters and hope to see you back soon.
P
-
VMM
Stick With It! as this community grows, we will see the patterns of "shady behavior" of both vendors and buyers begin to crystallize. This sets a dangerous precedent, but in my opinion, should be treated as an isolated incident, until otherwise indicated.
ggg
-
Really staggering there are people defending this guy. He threatened to call the police on someone, he retained their address and used it to intimidate them, these are the facts. Should Silk just ignore it when people report threats like this? Should this guy have been allowed to keep his account after SR saw he threatened to call the police on someone, or should we rely on the subjective opinion of some idiot on a forum to decide if he should keep it or not? I thought you people were smarter than this.
Some sanity on the message boards sure is refreshing.
Who cares if this seller made an infinite amount of good orders? And who cares if there are an infinite amount of bad buyers? It's the classic defense of snitching someone else out for something completely unrelated, in a failed attempt to mitigate the wrongs this buyer did. It's a failed defense. Two wrongs don't make a right. And a majority vote of favor doesn't make his actions any less reprehensible. I thought the political philosophy on SR was one of personal responsibility? Not mob rule.
"Do not let public opinion influence your decision"- California Jury Instructions
-
I learned the hard way not to even joke about going out addresses
-
great post SRE
about time people should be thinking of the possible out come of his actions if he was to have everyones addy he sold to there could be a lot of members in jail.Actions like that should not be tolerated by members & buyers his actions could be the down fall of SR
BigBill6778
-
Mr. Silk Road Encounter,
thanks for your "positive" and "constructive" comments.
However, this is not a Jury Tribunal, trial, nor a 'Survivor'-esque vote-off scenario.....this has actually NOTHING to do with you.
Technically, I said what I said not as a threat but a hypothetical question to him.....a baseless one..just to get a rise out of a F'ing troll who never responded and sat there leaving a big stink 1 on my page.
Now, had I deserved the 1....(i.e. nothing received, or something)..i would understand......this private argument is not indicative of what I will do...
i cant count how many times have buyers have threatened me, and random people who never even ordered from me say some pretty entertaining things as well.....you dont see me outing them publicly....
SRE you just dont get it.....this issue is dead and over.......ready to move on.....and if you must hear it from me again I DONT keep records.. am remorseful for the way I handled it....
I coulda said "I'll bomb your house" or some stupid shit....now does this make me a possible terrorist or put in question my skills and trustworthiness as a vendor?
No. Especially when out of a whole conversation one line is taken out of context and the accuser puts on an innocent smile and acts like he's an angel with a shiny halo.
It was a private argument, no action was taken, no cops, no bombs, no nothing.....in fact the dude is so quick to try and out me.....i bet he never posts when he receives his stuff....
this whole thing could have been avoided......i will use better judgment and continue business...this small setback is just more motivation for a major comeback,....so SRE why are you so set on crucifying me?
Do you really think that it would solve anything?
If anything, its a new era upon us with these trolls that will start affecting vendors....hell my whole service is interrupted as we speak.....all due to one $50 order.
V
-
Hey VMM
I think SR has to route out the problem of bad buyers that is for sure 1 bad report can screw your whole business as I believe it has made a big dent in your credibility for sure.I hope you can recover from this and have a better second round with trusted customers.I am glad some vendors will deal with newbies (as I am one myself) and the first thing I thought was I would get ripped off.I made first purchase and love the place every since. Hope your biz recovers and your not plagued by rip off artists.
BigBill6778
-
Mr. Silk Road Encounter,
this has actually NOTHING to do with you.
Technically, I said what I said not as a threat but a hypothetical question to him.....a baseless one.
SRE you just dont get it.....this issue is dead and over.......ready to move on.....
I coulda said "I'll bomb your house" or some stupid shit....now does this make me a possible terrorist or put in question my skills and trustworthiness as a vendor?
When you post publicly to defend yourself, you open yourself up to rebuttal argument.
A blameless hypo, huh? Are you gonna stick with that story or are you gonna stick with your former story of calling the law because a buyer left you a 1 instead of a 5?
If you threatened to bomb someones house "or some stupid shit...." that would put you in question as to skills and trustworthiness, yes. Anyone disagree?
-
Vortex admitted he was in the wrong and his reputation has taken a hit. It's the buyers decision whether or not they're still willing to deal with him. I personally don't think banning him is necessary. It's certainly not our decision though, that's up to the mods.
-
Vortex admitted he was in the wrong and his reputation has taken a hit. It's the buyers decision whether or not they're still willing to deal with him. I personally don't think banning him is necessary. It's certainly not our decision though, that's up to the mods.
now that i have seen this play out, i would agree with this. the forum posts will be enough to allow buyers to form their own decisions. let the free market play out.
-
So he threatened some newb buyer that is complaining and fucking with his vendor rating over half a gram of shit.?... maybe he handeled it badly but if you had dealt with VMM for as long as I have, you would know he's no fucking snitch.
There's a reason this is the only vendor I happily finalize early for on BULK orders.... trust.
-
A few not so random thoughts.....
The way we are treated by saying "bomb" at an airport is a criminal assault in our individual liberty.
Only one thing could be said against it.....if you buy a ticket and the contract that ticket represents says you shall not say "bomb" whist in the airport then you are in violation of contract. Period. You are not evil, you are not a terrorist.
Same goes for what it seems VMM said.....maybe.
The seller rules say that info is to be destroyed. Does anyone had proof VMM did not? I didn't see it all go down so I don't know.
Is it a violation of SR contract to SAY address or LE?
If someone actually HAD a bomb even then he is still only in violation of contract.
However if he brandishes his weapon while stating with both word and demeanor an intent to harm or kill NOW we have something that could be reacted to with deadly force as a real threat is now present.
So to compare how someone SHOULD be treated with a situation where people are systematically abused by power isn't useful on a freedom based market/forum IMO.
It IS testament to how fucking brainwashed/conditioned we are though....that we instinctively go running for SOME kind of Big Brother every time we get scared or see someone do something we don't agree with. We can't imagine a world where that go-to Big Brother doesn't exist and all we have is what we have right here....the court of public scrutiny.
Which brings be to my other point....
So often people here say "we" should do this or that. Who is we? SR owns this site and unless your his partner you have nothing but the right to walk away if you don't like it.
SR goes a long way in providing what the consumers (that is both vendors and buyers) here want and the growth shows it. Supply has gone way up since I found this place.
If enough people want it and it doesn't violate SR's personal constitution it seems he will find a way.
But it isn't a democracy. Its private property devoted to the exchange of still more private property.
VMM's status here is in SR's hands....and his own. I doubt any polls will be started and votes taken by SR and I doubt the market will dissolve for lack of support if SR doesn't permanently ban VMM.
Someone mentioned IRL this could get you killed. True. IRL, if someone knows you have drugs in any quantity on hand you could be the victim of a home invasion robbery too.
It happens too often here. Good reason to head to the "Armoury" :) Especially if your "betters" in parasitic....er, I mean public office have banned you from owning the means of self defense. Also a good reason to to use SR instead of IRL dealers who might have someone follow you home.
Now the most important point of all. VMM's mistake was based on what I see over and over....obsession with main site stats. Everyone knows they can be cooked. Everyone knows bad vendors will have great reviews....for a short while, and everyone knows the best vendors will have some assbag who either is just a dick or plain clueless try to "show him" by by giving bad feedback.
Why is everyone so worried about it?
I see "We can't do anything" or "we have to take it" written again and again.
Well then why is anyone here reading this?
Of course you can do something, you can bring it to "jury" here. That, and it's real life counterpart....word of mouth reputation, is the ONLY legitimate tool anyone can use in a situation like this.
A real threat can be met with deadly force or we wouldn't be free, a situation of bad treatment can be walked away from or we would be slaves but he said/she said situations can only be dealt with in a court of peers, evidence presented, character considered, references made good or bad and everyone is left to decide whether to associate with or ostracize the accused.
In cases where damages have been made compensation can be demanded but the anonymous nature of this site has the inherent risk of never seeing any compensation of course.
We have what we (we again LOL) need....a doubled up cross checking means of feedback and common sense.
We don't need any all powerful Big Brothers to run too, we just need to grow up and use the reason we were blessed with.
We use it every time we buy from Amazon right? Do you really think if something has dozens of raving reviews and a couple of angry, bad ones that the product or service is bad?
We know how to pick the average of all other online review systems, this place is no exception.
I saw one good idea but I would tweak it (LOL). Instead of requiring a minimum balance some kind of bonding or insurance system, perhaps several entrepreneurs could market it, maybe SR could provide the service.
Bonds or insurance could be purchased using PGP keys as ID, forum rep and main site stats could influence the rates.
Vendors could choose not to sell to unbonded/uninsured members. Or they could have variable pricing based on bonding or insurance. A seller could make a claim on a bad buyers bond if need be for compensation. Less risk by the ability to claim a bond could get you lower prices. Risky ventures could bring higher profits when successful, said profits going down as the members standing becomes better, his bond rates go down, more insurance is affordable to him....etc.
Of course, like IRL, bonding companies would not fare well if they just rolled over on any claim, both in profits and in reputation (which also effects profits).
Due diligence in resolving cases justly would be necessary, and if the market brought new ventures into this service it would take a large resolution load off of SR.
I'd bet bad buyers would be popping up less too. It could work to reduce all scammers I would think.
All of it free (of coercion that is). No one forcing anyone to do anything, just providing incentives to behave. Like ALL human organization/interaction could, should and someday will be.
VMM......I forgive you. Stay if SR is willing. Your customer base will support you.
-
"Probable cause for a warrantless arrest may be based on information which would be inadmissible in court, such as hearsay testimony. Accordingly, information that the arresting officer received from other people often establishes the existence of probable cause for the arrest. In determining the existence of probable cause for a warrantless arrest based on information received from others, the issue is not the accuracy of the information, but rather the informant's reliability. " See 44 Am. Jur. Proof of Facts 2d 229.
Silk Road Encounter, you need WestlawNext or Lexis.... Love the quote from the pattern jury instructions.
-
Reading all this I kinda have to think of the stoning scene at the beginning of "Life of Brian"
HE SAID JEHOVA HE SAID JEHOVA!!!! lol
C'mon guys give it a break. I'm not downplaying it, I hang in places where saying that even only as a joke would cause you some serious bodily harm.
But then again, how often have you said something in anger that you'd never do for real? Ionno how often I have threatened people with raping their girl or something to that effect when in fact I'd sooner cut my dick of than committing a rape. Ooops, too much info, huh? Well, that's this business for ya...
It was a serious breach of conduct, but lets not inflate it too much.
-
A moment of weakness does not negate his strong record with customers (if he has one, haven't looked). I think it's one of the worst ways to get uppity with a customer and do what he did but it stills does not negate his customer ratings from previous transactions. If he is obviously taking care of his customers except the one that caught him in a bad moment it should say something. But...to each their own.
-
Bonds or insurance could be purchased using PGP keys as ID, forum rep and main site stats could influence the rates.
Vendors could choose not to sell to unbonded/uninsured members. Or they could have variable pricing based on bonding or insurance. A seller could make a claim on a bad buyers bond if need be for compensation. Less risk by the ability to claim a bond could get you lower prices. Risky ventures could bring higher profits when successful, said profits going down as the members standing becomes better, his bond rates go down, more insurance is affordable to him....etc.
Though it is not complicated, it seems unnecessarily complex. Forgive my reasoning, but is this not the point of escrow? Everyone taking part of SR, whether one is buying or selling, takes risks. This is the inherent and unavoidable bane of this kind of business. It is the vendor's choice whether or not to conduct exchanges with a less established or unknown member. Likewise, it is the buyer's choice on who to buy product from. I have only been here a few weeks, and even less on the forums; but it is already apparent to me that being an active part of the community, using common sense, and averaging the reviews will prove fruitful in whichever venture I choose. Bottom line: Risk is part of it and there is NO way around it...but like you already said, just use the head we were all blessed with!
-
if you had dealt with VMM for as long as I have, you would know he's no fucking snitch.
How do you know VMM?
-
Silk Road Encounter, you need WestlawNext or Lexis....
I'm a little confused why you would quote an element of probable cause obtained through the use of informants in a case where VMM threatened to call the cops.
Your conclusion is that I need westlaw. Is that it?
-
Bonds or insurance could be purchased using PGP keys as ID, forum rep and main site stats could influence the rates.
Vendors could choose not to sell to unbonded/uninsured members. Or they could have variable pricing based on bonding or insurance. A seller could make a claim on a bad buyers bond if need be for compensation. Less risk by the ability to claim a bond could get you lower prices. Risky ventures could bring higher profits when successful, said profits going down as the members standing becomes better, his bond rates go down, more insurance is affordable to him....etc.
Though it is not complicated, it seems unnecessarily complex. Forgive my reasoning, but is this not the point of escrow? Everyone taking part of SR, whether one is buying or selling, takes risks. This is the inherent and unavoidable bane of this kind of business. It is the vendor's choice whether or not to conduct exchanges with a less established or unknown member. Likewise, it is the buyer's choice on who to buy product from. I have only been here a few weeks, and even less on the forums; but it is already apparent to me that being an active part of the community, using common sense, and averaging the reviews will prove fruitful in whichever venture I choose. Bottom line: Risk is part of it and there is NO way around it...but like you already said, just use the head we were all blessed with!
My point, as related to VMM's situation, one that many sellers seem to have to deal with, is that a few asshole buyers can really torque a seller. Escrow is great but like everything it has its limitations.
Sellers seem to place so much importance on main site feedback that it gives an asshole buyer a lot of leverage over them, as they see it anyway.
Like I said, I see it posted again and again that they feel helpless in this situation.
Now as you and I agree, using your head and checking both main site feedback, forum posts and even starting threads is the best way to know the truth but a lot of people never make it to the forums and the sellers know this.
My main point was that people, in society as we know it, tend to want to "have something done" about it.
This usually takes the form of requesting SR bring a hammer down or ends up in some stupid discussion of what "we should vote to do".
I'm simply suggesting that the free market can provide solutions for this and everything else while letting someone profit from the service.
No forceful hammer or lynch mob action is necessary. No one's freedom to choose need be diminished.
Bonding and insurance are commonplace in the "legit" world and they could certainly play a part here too.
When buying a house escrow, bonds, title insurance, references, appraisals and all kinds of other services work in concert, in the proportions desired by the contracting parties, to set terms, provide incentives and disincentives, and minimize risk as much as can be done or as one wishes to pay for.
Bad behavior ends up costing like a low credit score brings high interest rates or bad driving brings high insurance rates.
When the market is allowed to operate naturally (it isn't anywhere close as government and GSE's have completely distorted the incentives and disincentives) you have a good reason to behave civilly.
In the absence of a government, something along these lines could provide all the law and order we need, in a competitive environment without the arrogant swagger that comes form having a monopoly on the issue of law and the legal use of force. Arrogant swagger is bad for business when there are many vendors to choose from no?
If these services or others like them were developed and well known people would be less inclined to go ballistic when pressured by someone in the wrong. It would be costly for anyone to try.
And people would be less inclined to go running to the masses to vote some system of force into being with all of its unintended consequences, as they always seem to in a "democracy".
As you read more here you will see what I mean.
-
this nothing personal against vmm, this is aside from the allegation the police were called but:-
- whats the solution -how do sellers want to prove they are right?
or how does a buyer prove he is right?
- who is going to play arbitrator and do you go about proving either party is "right" or wrong?
-
Does it really matter at all what the truth of the story is? Even if the shitty buyer mailed anthrax to your Mother, placing the word police in a sentence spoken/written by a DRUG VENDOR is an absolute no no wherever you are. We're playing a game that is massively illegal, it is never appropriate to even joke about involving the police.
No matter what facts are left to emerge, we know right now that VMM threatened to call the police and snitch on the buyer, revealing their address in the process. There is no reason whatsoever that VMM should have had the address still after they had shipped the package. The retaining of the address in and of itself is enough fuck-uppery to justify closing their account and making them pay the "idiot fee" to open a new one.
If one little internet troll is able to get them to break at least 2 of the most fundamental rules we operate by here, what could the entirety of their customer base expect to happen to their addresses that had been retained if the feds come knocking? The vendor was willing to threaten the police over FEEDBACK, imagine how much of you he'd sell to the police to cut a deal when heads start rolling.
A ban is obviously impossible, and frankly unnecessary. Let the semi-free market dictate the penalty. If buyers are willing to risk being sold out down the line, let them pay for some meth. If buyers are unaware that VMM ever did this, let them learn how to search a forum before making a purchase. There are plenty of vendors here that are currently in good standing despite having royally fucked up in the past. In time threads get buried and people forget.
If push comes to shove, you can always do what I'm sure SumYunGai did and just create a new account that nobody can link to the old one. I do not consume meth, but have experience with those that do. If you put meth up for sale at the right price, you can publish (right in the listing) that you are pro-Holocaust and the proceeds will go to Hezbollah and you will still sell it faster than you can stock it.
I do savor that this is one of the few forums where a running conversation about a meth dealer can be entirely devoid of judgements based on pre-conceptions of meth dealers or moral grudges against meth itself. Almost every post has managed to attack the actions instead of the actor.
-
Snitch? Oh god....you just wont give up will you?
Cutting a deal with feds is an entirely different subject, and am offended you would suggest this.
What part of me, sending his package out less than an hour to my shipping ppl, before discovering the guys false feedback and me reacting with that msg, do you not understand?
I would have to be an utter retard to not remember the last package I just handled and moved out minutes before.....
I have no records, and my intentions arent to harm anyone....
give up the crusade....its getting old.
Uhh, & I DIDNT close my account to start a new one.....get your facts right
-
this nothing personal against vmm, this is aside from the allegation the police were called but:-
- whats the solution -how do sellers want to prove they are right?
or how does a buyer prove he is right?
- who is going to play arbitrator and do you go about proving either party is "right" or wrong?
Exactly how it all would work? Who knows? No central planner could know the best way to deal with each unique situation.
Only the combined free actions of many people acting in their best interests could morph towards the closest to ideal solutions humanly possible.
And who shall do the judging? Isn't that what this thread has been about? Isn't that what the whole rumor mill is about?
Wouldn't members who frequent these forums volunteer for jury duty if need be?
All that is left is for someone to figure out how to sell a bond to a known PGP keyed member. Sr. members first, possibly at a discount to get some involvement started sort of like vendor samples? I don't know for sure but there are ways.
If enough participation takes root maybe vendors would offer discounts to bonded members. Perhaps SR (or DPR) would give a break on fees if the bonding agent took the responsibility of resolution off of his hands. That's got to be worth something.
New members could buy bonds (at higher rates at first) but then maybe vendors would not need them to finalize and escrow could still be available to the bonded newbies.
Vendors could refuse to sell to anyone not covered. Scammers would have to put up something to lose up front.......not what they want to do. And have to do it again every time they want to fuck someone and just open a new account.....kind of a similar burden vendors face.
These are just a few ideas off the top of my head. Anyone else see some usefulness here? Any ideas? How to keep the bonding company form going missing with the bond coins? :)
How this could work to relieve stress in vendors lives? If it were a case of simply disputing a review where no allegations of fraud were being brought I don't know what it could do to help, other than simply over time creating more of an environment where people get a PGP key, get it bonded and value that reputation so as to reduce their premiums.
Of course what you get for your premiums is a sponsor willing to pay if you are found liable but also representation in a dispute. Imagine the cases where nobody is in the wrong and it is just a misunderstanding. It would be in the interest of BOTH parties sponsors to work towards peaceful resolution.
It could begin to change the culture here, making it less attractive to be an ass-bag and resulting in less stress felt by already overworked vendors. It could help avoid blow ups by otherwise good people egged on by trolls.
I always say you can't make any lasting change that doesn't change the culture.
All it takes is a will to solve a problem and a reward for coming up with a solution that works. There is obviously some room for improvements along these lines or we wouldn't be in this thread.
Anyway, just some thoughts.......FWIW.
-
Snitch? Oh god....you just wont give up will you?
Cutting a deal with feds is an entirely different subject, and am offended you would suggest this.
What part of me, sending his package out less than an hour to my shipping ppl, before discovering the guys false feedback and me reacting with that msg, do you not understand?
I would have to be an utter retard to not remember the last package I just handled and moved out minutes before.....
I have no records, and my intentions arent to harm anyone....
give up the crusade....its getting old.
Uhh, & I DIDNT close my account to start a new one.....get your facts right
For fuck's sake please at least quote who/what you are responding to, so we can at least know whose mouth you're putting words in. If that was all towards me, only about 10% of it makes sense. Crusade? Unless this thread is so forgettable I posted more than just twice now, what crusade? A single post in a sea of other somewhat similar opinions is not a crusade, it's just called you being wrong.
Who said you started a new account? Or closed any account? I said you always have the option of closing your account and opening a new one like SumYunGai did, see?
If push comes to shove, you can always do what I'm sure SumYunGai did and just create a new account that nobody can link to the old one.
You also failed to refute the FACT that you automatically became an unsafe vendor the second you threatened to release a customer's address to the police. There is no excuse for this, and it is unforgivable. A vendor has to stay safe under even incredible pressure from authorities and you've proposed cooperation with the authorities OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. If someone is willing to give police information without any pressure, what will they give them when their ass is on the line? They'll do what Tim Allen did and snitch on every person they've ever even kinda did business with to get a reduced sentence.
Take this as a sign that you were not cut out for this type of thing. A vendor needs integrity and some code of honor, your lack of both makes you simply a dealer. I'd never say negative things about a good meth vendor, but shitty meth dealers (like you) are a dime a dozen.
It still boils down to the things that won't change: you expressed intent and possessed the means to report a customer to the police over bad feedback. What do we call it again when you have a motive, express intent, and possess the means for an action? Oh yeah, guilty.
This space below is reserved for posterity, so VMM can continue to put their foot in their mouth and try to pretty up threatening a customer that left bad feedback with releasing their address to the police.
(Foot, mouth area)
(/feet)
-
Wow, people are really pissed about this. :O All lining up to say the same thing over and over and over again. Why is everyone pissed? Because it kicked their sense of security square in the balls, yanked their heads out of the clouds, and made them realize what they're doing is illegal and dangerous?
If you're surprised that this happened, I dunno what to tell you. It was bound to happen sometime, and I would be honestly shocked if this time was the first. So I don't feel any need to dogpile on VMM and tear him a new asshole. Was it fucked up? Very! Did it involve me? Not at all. So fuck it. Let them handle it. I am glad that it was made public, because people need to know about shit like this, but as far as I'm concerned it's just a cautionary tale. I'm not going to waste my time berating VMM and pouring a bunch of naive outrage all over the thread.
Fuck it, I need a drink.
-
Really sad to view this post,only reason i came over here was because i noticed VMM had no listings and wondered were he'd gone.The guys been around a long time,amost since SR started,he's got almost perfect feedback and considering the ammount of orders the guy has put out it's no mean feat.
I think people forget not too long ago it was nigh on impossible to get meth on SR,customers kept asking but mostly all we got were scammers doing a run with our money then VMM popped up,never asked people to finalize early as far as i know,had good stuff and was courteous,this seems to be a load of crap about nothing imo.
A lot of people will be whinging if VMM goes,specially if the new boys dont last long,i think when a seller has been around so long and proved himself with zero scams and good feedback we shouldn't be chasing him away for fucks sakes.
Iv only ordered from him twice but he seems a good guy and like i said,i think his feedback speaks for itself.
-
sonic, I totally understand where you are coming from.
I look forward to making amends.
Please quell all negative energy.....this is getting out of hand.
V
-
Does it really matter at all what the truth of the story is? Even if the shitty buyer mailed anthrax to your Mother, placing the word police in a sentence spoken/written by a DRUG VENDOR is an absolute no no wherever you are. We're playing a game that is massively illegal, it is never appropriate to even joke about involving the police.
No matter what facts are left to emerge, we know right now that VMM threatened to call the police and snitch on the buyer, revealing their address in the process. There is no reason whatsoever that VMM should have had the address still after they had shipped the package. The retaining of the address in and of itself is enough fuck-uppery to justify closing their account and making them pay the "idiot fee" to open a new one.
If one little internet troll is able to get them to break at least 2 of the most fundamental rules we operate by here, what could the entirety of their customer base expect to happen to their addresses that had been retained if the feds come knocking? The vendor was willing to threaten the police over FEEDBACK, imagine how much of you he'd sell to the police to cut a deal when heads start rolling.
A ban is obviously impossible, and frankly unnecessary. Let the semi-free market dictate the penalty. If buyers are willing to risk being sold out down the line, let them pay for some meth. If buyers are unaware that VMM ever did this, let them learn how to search a forum before making a purchase. There are plenty of vendors here that are currently in good standing despite having royally fucked up in the past. In time threads get buried and people forget.
If push comes to shove, you can always do what I'm sure SumYunGai did and just create a new account that nobody can link to the old one. I do not consume meth, but have experience with those that do. If you put meth up for sale at the right price, you can publish (right in the listing) that you are pro-Holocaust and the proceeds will go to Hezbollah and you will still sell it faster than you can stock it.
I do savor that this is one of the few forums where a running conversation about a meth dealer can be entirely devoid of judgements based on pre-conceptions of meth dealers or moral grudges against meth itself. Almost every post has managed to attack the actions instead of the actor.
This is the kind of post I felt inclined to make. I hold myself back because I don't want to commit myself to a week long argument that nets me $0. Kudos to you for having the balls to say what most of us were afraid to. Now you can re-engage with VMM as he attempts to mitigate his actions. Or you could not rebut him, if you're pressed for time like I am lol
-
LOL, "what most of us were afraid to." It's the same shit people have been saying for 5 pages. The only difference is that most of them managed to say it more succinctly.
-
A few not so random thoughts.....
The way we are treated by saying "bomb" at an airport is a criminal assault in our individual liberty.
Only one thing could be said against it.....if you buy a ticket and the contract that ticket represents says you shall not say "bomb" whist in the airport then you are in violation of contract. Period. You are not evil, you are not a terrorist.
Same goes for what it seems VMM said.....maybe.
The seller rules say that info is to be destroyed. Does anyone had proof VMM did not? I didn't see it all go down so I don't know.
Is it a violation of SR contract to SAY address or LE?
If someone actually HAD a bomb even then he is still only in violation of contract.
However if he brandishes his weapon while stating with both word and demeanor an intent to harm or kill NOW we have something that could be reacted to with deadly force as a real threat is now present.
...
VMM......I forgive you. Stay if SR is willing. Your customer base will support you.
Excellent analogy.
The following is an example:
"I used to have a buddy friend. He was caught by police for some offence. He called me and joked with me he will call the police too to inform them I have some pirated pornography.
I swore that day on never to see him again, and never did."
Anyway, VMM, did you not know that, say your product did reach him, he had actually planned to change that rating from 1/5 to 5/5?
-
I was trying to make an ASCII art of a dead horse but I gave up halfway in....
-
this nothing personal against vmm, this is aside from the allegation the police were called but:-
- whats the solution -how do sellers want to prove they are right?
or how does a buyer prove he is right?
- who is going to play arbitrator and do you go about proving either party is "right" or wrong?
Exactly how it all would work? Who knows? No central planner could know the best way to deal with each unique situation.
Only the combined free actions of many people acting in their best interests could morph towards the closest to ideal solutions humanly possible.
And who shall do the judging? Isn't that what this thread has been about? Isn't that what the whole rumor mill is about?
Wouldn't members who frequent these forums volunteer for jury duty if need be?
- if you think the rumour mill and posting to defend oneself and that posting works...works well....you obviously dont read many threads
- don't know what to make of the rest of your post...sorry
-
I was trying to make an ASCII art of a dead horse but I gave up halfway in....
lol.
_,--''--,_ _,-'~~'-,
( '' {}{}
}{ {}{}
}{| {}{}
}{}( ) ,__ , \ {}{}
{}{) / \' ) '\ / ~/\ (\/)
{}{/ / \ | | /| / \ }{
}{( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) | |}
{}{\\ \\ (/ || | u|{
}{}{\\ \\ || || \ |
|\ |\ |\ |\ (\o
-- '' -'-' ~` "" ~` ~`' ~` '"' "' -- '' -'-'
He's kinda dead. sick like. but this is some shocking shit that's going to take a while from some people to get over. op is just going to have to be patient.
-
Hey V-man
Stavros1994 here, just hoping you could reply to my messages. Frankly couldn't give a toss about your current public reputation as this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion...the way i see it you got angry at someone getting angry -happens. so sorry for posting this on the thread but its been hard to get in contact with you with all this crazyness going on... Anywayz I imagine you´ve got more on your mind just now than little ole me^^ but was just hoping you could quell my fears... I ordered from you 23 days ago and gave you 5\5 in the feedback which I wont change unless it doesn´t turn up...don't care how long it takes. just as long as it shows up. I appreciate you´re not master of the universe and there are circumstances beyond your control and if customs seize it etc. I will consider this not your fault. However, if its a case of you never sent it my feedback will go down. Sorry to lay this on you at a chaotic time for you but if you could just give me some reassurance i´d be most grateful! Peace matey hope things work out for you. Stavros1994
-
Anyway, VMM, did you not know that, say your product did reach him, he had actually planned to change that rating from 1/5 to 5/5?
I asked him this about 4 times, in addition to another 3 messages asking him to please let me know why he left a 1 when he JUST ordered and finalized, and i also mentinoed the importance of relevant feedback, and changing it later would sitll be unnaceptable but at least if he told me that he would I would be like "fine".
He chose to never respond, he chose to leave the 1, and he only replied when i threatened him.
exactly what i predicted.
Im done with the topic.
All i am going to be discussing from here on in is future endeavors that spread joy within the community thru satisfied clients, aka business as usual.
V
-
exactly what i predicted.
Just out of curiousity, did you predict him to take to the forums about your threat? And did you predict that the SR community would lash out against for in finding that you made that threat? Did you predict that you would make excuses and attempt to mitigate your foul words? Did you predict that you would continue to harbor resentment against the customer who sullied your name? Did you predict that you'd be in a worse place for making the threat? And did you finally predict that you'd make boastful posts that gratuitously make you appear arrogant?
My final point is a new one. You've admitted being wrong, but not fully. You've accepted remorse, but not quite. You continue to post clever phrases, like the one above. Why not just ask for a clean slate? Why not just stop being arrogant? Why not just admit wrong? And don't mitigate it or make excuses. Just forget about whether the customer was difficult or not and be humble for a while.
-
VMM already just stated that this topic is over and I think he has explained himself more than enough so because I love retarded trolls I will answer your questions SRE..
did you predict him to take to the forums about your threat?
It was a heat of the moment, baseless comment...baseless like the feedback that prick gave me I dont give a fuck about this thread. I have explained it to my customers and now Im just entertaining you trolls with your hand on your peckers.
And did you predict that the SR community would lash out against for in finding that you made that threat?
LMAO I will still sell more meth than what I can supply. The only people that still think it was a real threat are the kids and the trolls and I dont give a fuck about you
Did you predict that you would make excuses and attempt to mitigate your foul words?
Fuck off troll
Did you predict that you would continue to harbor resentment against the customer who sullied your name?
LMAO
Did you predict that you'd be in a worse place for making the threat?
LMAO im dying here!!
And did you finally predict that you'd make boastful posts that gratuitously make you appear arrogant?
Im sorry... what is the problem? Im here to sell meth. Dont fuck with me and I wont fuck with you. Arrogant enough?
My final point is a new one. You've admitted being wrong, but not fully. You've accepted remorse, but not quite. You continue to post clever phrases, like the one above. Why not just ask for a clean slate? Why not just stop being arrogant? Why not just admit wrong? And don't mitigate it or make excuses. Just forget about whether the customer was difficult or not and be humble for a while.
Seriously SRE... there is something really quite odd about you mate. I swear you are whacking off as you type this shit.
You want to know what I did?? I kept a buyers address :o I shit you not I have it right here in front of me.
Same fucking deal as VMM..the troll trashes me.. meanwhile he puts another order in that I was just about to send. I have his package right here with his name on it. So fucking sue me cunt and while your at it lobotomize me too because I can remember everyone of my customers and most of their details
next person that posts here is a cunt
-
and btw my only order from VMM never showed so dont paint me as a VMM fanboy. Im sure he would have resent if I asked. If I ever order from him again I would do it with confidence that he would not dog me to the cops.
-
Lawl this thread cracks me up. Especially novocaines post lol. You guys need to switch over to the H 8) ::) lol
-
Novocaine, i got u on the resend, hit me up!
-
Lock?
-
next person that posts here is a cunt
it was funny to me that you were the next person to post here.....
-
next person that posts here is a cunt
it was funny to me that you were the next person to post here.....
I was thinking the same thing. novocaine is a cunt lol.
-
next person that posts here is a cunt
it was funny to me that you were the next person to post here.....
I was thinking the same thing. novocaine is a cunt lol.
Hahahahaha!! I'm sure he'll go from cunt level to something more modest if VMM would just deliver. Poor guy could use a little more meth. He's not nearly animated enough.
-
I don't actually think he's a cunt. I was just amused that he double posted like that. I actually thought his post was pretty hilarious.
-
Heh? why are all you guys calling me a cunt? LMAO
Novocaine, i got u on the resend, hit me up!
Thanks VMM. I know you would but this would go against my buying policy.
a/ Trust a vendor will ship it. Do your research first, know your vendor, get an overall picture of the vendor and order.
b/ Dont penalize a vendor because customs/postal service stole my my shit.
c/ If I think I got scammed, its my own fault and I should have spent more time on a/
I will let you know if I order again though ;)
next person that posts here is a cunt
it was funny to me that you were the next person to post here.....
I was thinking the same thing. novocaine is a cunt lol.
Hahahahaha!! I'm sure he'll go from cunt level to something more modest if VMM would just deliver. Poor guy could use a little more meth. He's not nearly animated enough.
I dont need meth sweetheart. My troll addiction is getting way out of hand.
That warm rush that I feel when I read some shite on here is bliss ;)
Troll -Warm Rush - tingling sensation throughout my body- serotonin levels skyrocket in my attempt to trollinate the trolls- heart rate high - ringing in my ears- searching for the next troll.
Its endless on SR... thanks again SRE
-
"Probable cause for a warrantless arrest may be based on information which would be inadmissible in court, such as hearsay testimony. Accordingly, information that the arresting officer received from other people often establishes the existence of probable cause for the arrest. In determining the existence of probable cause for a warrantless arrest based on information received from others, the issue is not the accuracy of the information, but rather the informant's reliability. "
Is VMM a paid informant?
-
"Probable cause for a warrantless arrest may be based on information which would be inadmissible in court, such as hearsay testimony. Accordingly, information that the arresting officer received from other people often establishes the existence of probable cause for the arrest. In determining the existence of probable cause for a warrantless arrest based on information received from others, the issue is not the accuracy of the information, but rather the informant's reliability. "
Is VMM a paid informant?
Now you're really getting out of hand. :-/
-
It's a fair question, given the post by minorthreat. Minorthreat has been supporting VMM. A cop would scoff and laugh at the question. A SR buyer would want an answer.
-
Don't presume to speak for all Silk Road buyers, that would be ridiculous. I certainly wouldn't let you speak for me.
Honestly, your behavior in this thread has almost made me feel sympathy for VMM. Which I didn't think was possible. So congrats dude. You're a hell of a guy.
-
Don't presume to speak for all Silk Road buyers, that would be ridiculous.
If I can even make sense of your first sentence, it appears that you're telling me that I should be careful when speaking for all silk road buyers when I ask if VMM is an informant. The first issue is nowhere in my post do I make a statement. Is that correct? It was a question. How can a question of VMM's integrity be the same as speaking for "all Silk Road buyers?" So your conclusion is that I'm the PR rep for "all Silk Road Buyers?" Is this really what you think? Seriously?
The second issue is that you seem to be saying that it's not a suitable question to ask if VMM is an informant. Is that correct? In a thread where VMM admits to threatening a buyer with revealing personal information and incriminating evidence to the police. And I quote another member who has supported VMM. And that quote had black letter law regarding how to obtain probable cause through the use of informants. And that question is unfair because....? Explain.
The third issue is you say that it "would be ridiculous" to ask a question on behalf of the security of Silk Road buyers. Is that what you meant to type? How is it "ridiculous" to ask questions about SR security?
-
Still with this?.......seriously?....
-
OK I will Be the first to say I was wrong about this story I still think vendors don't have the right to threaten buyers with LEO! but as it was pointed out in some threads back is that The buyer was a SCAMMER and Tried to scam the wrong guy. This guy is a trusted vendor and that is what SR needs.If we could root out the scammers immediately that would be great but there is know way to know.
Anyways I would like to say sorry for all the bad posts that have been made about this trusted buyer.HOWEVER no one has the right to threaten any BUYER or VENDOR with LEO!!!
-
Still with this?.......seriously?....
SRE is trying to present himself as the go to legal expert on SR. Even thought he could sell legal services here (L.O.F.L.). Trouble is, he took the wrong approach and instead became SR's #2 troll behind moonbear.
But at least moonbear gives you a reason to laugh every now and again.
-
Well I read the whole page and I'd like to throw some things out there.
1. Methheads do crazy things, as already stated. That's not being judgmental, that is being realistic. I've never bought it from here on SR, and don't use it myself but I know dealers IRL and I can tell you there is a difference in the customers, I've met many MANY crazy meth addicts. Maybe not for some, few customers (emphasis on few), but the general meth business is just going to be much more hostile than other drugs, plenty of proof for that one. I'm not trying to label individual people, I am trying to be realistic about the general situation instead of BSing.
2. Thanks for the new quote, could not of said it better myself.
3. Threats of LEO are everywhere on this site and it's a HUGE turn off. In this fashion SR is NOT differentiating itself from the streets, not good for business.
4. Perhaps my best stoner cunt point... why not have a 'buyer feedback' system? It could be really vague if needed but maybe that would help sellers a bit more?
I am sorry about this situation milkman but you (and everyone) has to realize this is not a buyer vs. sellers type deal (despite my #4 suggestion). Plenty of shit gets thrown in each direction, for that buyer that pissed you off, somewhere on SR there is a buyer about to get pissed off/screwed. This is an individual problem issue with individual people. Not buyers vs. sellers. It's not just you though, I see buyers vs. sellers all OVER this site and I can tell you right now that kind of thinking and separating from one another is going to be very bad for all of us. Much greater things can be accomplished by working together. Not buyers vs. sellers rather individual scammers, using both ways to scam.
-
DROP THIS SHIT! THREAD CLOSED!
-
Here's a cure for boredom:
Go to Silk Road Encounter's profile, click 'show posts' and have a laugh.
Dont forget to grab the popcorn , cuz its the pure entertainment!
-
Go to Silk Road Encounter's profile, click 'show posts' and have a laugh.
I don't actually think you're a snitch, VMM. I think that you're a powerful seller who has delivered exceptional customer service for such a large amount of orders that it makes the allegation seem unlikely. Since you fessed up on the issue of threatening to call the law on this nuisance, the forums weighed that honesty against the violation of trust. In comparing your honesty and reliability in dealing your product with the inappropriate statement, the forums at large decided that you should be given a second shot. At this point, regardless of what some silent viewers may think, I tend to agree with the majority. I think that you, with your brilliant history of dealing on SR, combined with your honesty in this thread, is cause for you to be reinstated. And I would petition DPR to reinstate you. Hell, I'd probably buy from you if you sold the stuff that I enjoy lol.
The only issue that was unresolved in my mind was whether or not you actually were going to turn over the info to LE. I know you vehemently denied any intent to do so, but I'm sure you can appreciate my skepticism because of all the surrounding circumstances. There were some disparaging comments made by you about your customer base. This increased my suspicion that you may not respect them. Most people here seem to believe that you never actually intended to contact LE about this nuisance (as it turns out, a scammer). After careful review of your reputation and comments, I want to believe that you actually never intended to contact LE. It sounds as though you had a bad day, and combined with this nuisance that threatened your rep, you blew a fuse. Nothing more than that. I get it. And I think you deserve an opportunity to redeem yourself as time goes on. It sounds like you're one of SR most precious vendors. I applaud you.
The reason why I even had the audacity to ask the question about informing, is because I was hoping to get a response form minorthreat about why he would post black letter law about how LEO would obtain probable cause for arrest through the use of informants in a thread that originally had you as a suspect of informing to LE. The fact that you're not informing isn't the point I'm trying to raise. The point is this:
minorthreat- Why are you dropping my name in that post about informants? Do you know something the rest of us do not? What's with the post about how LE uses informants to arrest people? What relevance did that post have?
-
Still with this?.......seriously?....
SRE is trying to present himself as the go to legal expert on SR. Even thought he could sell legal services here (L.O.F.L.). Trouble is, he took the wrong approach and instead became SR's #2 troll behind moonbear.
But at least moonbear gives you a reason to laugh every now and again.
This is worth repeating.
-
Still with this?.......seriously?....
SRE is trying to present himself as the go to legal expert on SR. Even thought he could sell legal services here (L.O.F.L.). Trouble is, he took the wrong approach and instead became SR's #2 troll behind moonbear.
But at least moonbear gives you a reason to laugh every now and again.
This is worth repeating.
I need SRE to be my lawyer. He'll just annoy the fuck out of everyone in the courtroom until the prosecution ragequits and the case gets dropped.
On second thought, I'd probably plead guilty myself, just to get the fuck away from him. nvm.
-
minorthreat- Why are you dropping my name in that post about informants? Do you know something the rest of us do not? What's with the post about how LE uses informants to arrest people? What relevance did that post have?
You're fucking retarded.... seriously. You're not a lawyer, so quit the BS - it's so fucking transparent. Most of your statements are nothing but conclusory garbage without a shred of logic. I still cannot believe you "offered" legal services for $100/hr here.... unreal.
Take your hyperbole somewhere else, douchebag.
-
Possible solutions:
1) If a given buyer leaves his/her FIRST feedback with a given seller, this feedback should be flagged on the sellers page as "FIRST FROM..."
2) Do not let first time buyers (and I don't mean buyers with 0 transactions) from a given seller leave feedback. Only allow feedback after SECOND transaction with a given seller.
3) Allow sellers to leave feedback on buyer's page?
4) Or some hybrid of 1) and 2) and 3)
Thoughts?
-
Take your hyperbole somewhere else, douchebag.
What minor said.