Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Evanescence on January 30, 2012, 06:10 pm
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There have been a handful of studies that suggest Ketamine can at least for a while, cure depression. The intriguing part:
- It's supposedly _fast_, like 2 hours compared to 6 weeks for Prozac or conventional stuff
- Works on major depression, when other meds would not help.
Can anyone speak from experience about this?
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Subjectively, yes. Can't hurt to try it.
I've had a visit from the black dog back in April, serious fucking business. I don't want to get reliant on SSRI's so just try to battle through it, lifestyle/ diet/ sleep changes don't touch it.
After getting back from a club early one morning in July, we had a few little lines of K and a bit of a smoke. The next day, I felt in good spirits. The next day the same. Cure is a strong word, but the effects were remarkable my depression seemed to dissolve for the rest of summer.
Giving out free samples to sufferers is an awesome idea, well done for doing this. :D
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There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that ketamine cures depression. However, anecdotal evidence strongly indicates that it does. Studies are being done, with promising results so far.
And like wowzers said, it can't hurt to try. Ketamine is a relatively harmless drug, especially if the idea is to take only one or a few doses (any ill effects only really appear on extremely high doses or with repeated use over long periods of time.
My advice to you is that you should try it. There's a good chance it'll help you. And the worst case scenario is that you'll just have a fun out-of-body experience for about ninety minutes instead. So, where's the downside?
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My advice to you is that you should try it. There's a good chance it'll help you. And the worst case scenario is that you'll just have a fun out-of-body experience for about ninety minutes instead. So, where's the downside?
+1
Ketamine made me feel great, and definitely cured me of my depressive thoughts. At least while I was high.
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I've been interested in ketamine after those reports came out. Can anybody tell me the minimum effective dose when snorting it?
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I've been interested in ketamine after those reports came out. Can anybody tell me the minimum effective dose when snorting it?
Here's a helpful chart:
Insufflated / Nasal Ketamine Dosages
by body weight approx total
Threshold .1 mg / lb 10 - 15 mg
Light .15 mg / lb 15 - 30 mg
Common .3 mg / lb 30 - 75 mg
Strong .5 - .75 mg / lb 60 - 125 mg
The K Hole 1 mg / lb 100 - 250 mg
Source:http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/ketamine_dose.shtml
Note that it's an approximation. Every person has a different metabolism and will react differently.
The large amounts people use for recreational use would be considered dangerous by the pharmaceutical industry.
That's so wrong it's funny. "The pharmaceutical industry", or rather, the medical industry, uses ketamine routinely on patients, at doses much higher than recreational doses. It's the number one animal anesthetic, and in human surgery where the patients have a risk of lung failure, it's used preferentially over other anesthetics and sedatives, because it's one of the few drugs that can cut off pain signals without depressing the respiratory system as a side-effect.
Based on the same Erowid tables linked above, the normal anesthetic dose of ketamine administered via intramuscular injection is 66.67% larger than the k-hole dose, which is slightly below the top limit of recreational dosing (in practice, people use a bit more due to tolerance build-up).
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I find it intriguing that BuddyRoyale deleted his post so shortly after I replied to it. Was I perhaps too rough on him? Did I unwittingly violate some rule of netiquette?
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Ketamine made me feel great, and definitely cured me of my depressive thoughts. At least while I was high.
Most drugs make you feel good while you are high. We are talking about using it once and then having depression cured for at least 2 weeks after that single use.
Exactly, this is not about getting high. I'm not against people getting high it's just a different topic. This is about the possibility of making people more functional.
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I've been using MXE for the past 2 months and it's been amazing for my depression. I feel so good for about 3 days. I'm actually on disability for depression and have been hospitalized twice in the past few years. My question is, how does K compare? Is it better than MXE? Is it longer lasting? I'm getting ready to place an MXE order next week but I read an article on NPR about K and now I'm wondering if I should switch to K and see what it's all about. Anyone have some answers for me? Any K dealers willing to do a sample?
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Ketamine made me feel great, and definitely cured me of my depressive thoughts. At least while I was high.
Most drugs make you feel good while you are high. We are talking about using it once and then having depression cured for at least 2 weeks after that single use.
Exactly, this is not about getting high. I'm not against people getting high it's just a different topic. This is about the possibility of making people more functional.
I have used 20mg via IM for the last 6 months (when that info came out) at monthly intervals with some AMAZING results.
Definitely some good stuff too.
L@@K @ NeuroticNarcotic.. he's selling single vials if you want to give it a test run.
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Intriguing, I had the impression it was mostly used as a recreational drug, but I stand corrected.
It seems to me, in some situations, that the drug community is ahead of the curve in some respects.
e.g. Ketamine as an anti-depressant, Modafinil as a cognitive enhancer.
Because they are basically able to do what pharmaceutical companies are unable to do due to legal and ethical restrictions on humans.
i.e. experimental pharmacology vs a more theory based approach.
Nothing wrong at all with the pharmaceutical approach and using animal test subjects, but often in science it is blind stabs in the dark, or 'blue sky research' as it's formally known, that delivers results (contrary to popular perception, most scientific discoveries are 'blue-sky' rather than directed research).
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Intriguing, I had the impression it was mostly used as a recreational drug, but I stand corrected.
It seems to me, in some situations, that the drug community is ahead of the curve in some respects.
e.g. Ketamine as an anti-depressant, Modafinil as a cognitive enhancer.
Because they are basically able to do what pharmaceutical companies are unable to do due to legal and ethical restrictions on humans.
i.e. experimental pharmacology vs a more theory based approach.
Nothing wrong at all with the pharmaceutical approach and using animal test subjects, but often in science it is blind stabs in the dark, or 'blue sky research' as it's formally known, that delivers results (contrary to popular perception, most scientific discoveries are 'blue-sky' rather than directed research).
Good stuff pine.
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Most of the Ketamine-depression studies out there involve intramuscular delivery. I've snorted K before when I was depressed and it definitely did something to clear up my mind, although the effects were short lived (longer than the drug itself but not more than a day or two). A friend just tried some via IM injection like in the studies, and he absolutely loved it. It's been a few days now and he still doesn't feel the depression returning. Like everything else in this yet unproven field, your mileage may vary...
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subjectively: yes, and i would list a minimum effective dose at about a point. but that's just me...
also, i was on an SNRI for a little bit, and i would describe the effects as "some bad e", as that's exactly how i felt when i was on it. it was like i was rolling, except not, and felt much more gross :S
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Cure? No. Treat? Yes.
Low dose ketamine seems to keep people from getting depressed for a few days, but you need to keep taking it. MXE has the same effect but it lasts longer and thus you have to take it less often.
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Just got my gram of K in today and pretty excited about giving it a shot tonight to see the difference between K and MXE which I've been taking and totally love. Everything I've read says that if you love MXE, K will be even more amazing. Not sure how that's going to be possible because I think MXE is amazing but I'm hoping the K takes me even further and is an even more incredible experience.
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ketamine when IV'd seems to help eliminate depression for about 2 weeks before another dosage is administered.
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MXE seems to help with my depression for about 3 days. The K I got is crystal so I'm going to be snorting it.
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No drug will 'cure' depression. You learn to deal with depression through therapy, retraining your brain, a lot of hard work.
That being said, I suffer from borderline personality disorder, anxiety and panic disorder, severe depression, and bulimia. Ketamine has helped me immensely. I find that if I do it once every two weeks or so (like a half b or so) that it really helps knock out suicidal thoughts. It's also very useful when I have panic attacks or feel like self-harming, it calms me right down. It's more effective than ativan/lorazepam for me in terms of fast acting medications. I also have trouble sleeping and I find k helps with that as well. I know they are doing some studies in the UK now using ketamine as an antidepressant, when results are published I'm sure they'll wind up on here. As a long term user though I must say, please make sure you take care of your nose! It can tear it up. I've never shot it up nor do I really plan to.
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MXE seems to help with my depression for about 3 days. The K I got is crystal so I'm going to be snorting it.
MXE is considered to be more therapeutic and safer than K.
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No drug will 'cure' depression. You learn to deal with depression through therapy, retraining your brain, a lot of hard work.
I agree with you. I think? I've been on anti-depressants since 1996, tried all of them and am currently on 4 different ones at the moment. They've done nothing for me. I've been hospitalized twice since 2009 and have been a severally depressed person. My first hit of MXE and it was like I was "cured" for a few days. It was a drug that actually worked. It was so weird to walk around and feel happy and alert and alive after so long. I do know that there are studies where people have been cured for months of depression after just one injection of K. It has a higher success rate than electric shock therapy, which my Dr wanted me to try about 3 months ago because the drugs don't work (Thanks, Verve) but it just seems barbaric and the after effects are brutal for the rest of the day.
I still go to therapy, in fact have an appointment in a couple hours but to find a "drug" that actually works and lifts the deep depression I've been living with is an incredible thing. It's only been a few months so I won't say it's a "cure" but it works like a mother fucker.
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MXE seems to help with my depression for about 3 days. The K I got is crystal so I'm going to be snorting it.
MXE is considered to be more therapeutic and safer than K.
Considered based on anedoctal evidence on a relatively small number of self-medicating "patients". Honestly, there isn't enough data on either one for us to make a good guess as to which will work better than the other. The upside of ketamine is that it's been around for a very long time and its side-effects are much better understood.
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ketamine when IV'd seems to help eliminate depression for about 2 weeks before another dosage is administered.
Do you think route of administration matters for effectiveness of treatment?
I just finished a gram of K, my first real experiment with drugs. My original intent was to IV it just like in the study, but I couldn't hit a vein once out of many attempts so I tried snorting and then IM, from small doses (e.g. 50mg snorted) to larger (200 mg IM).
I didn't notice antidepressant effects.
I didn't hallucinate; I'm not even sure I K-holed. On 200 mg IM, I did have a brief existential crisis. No euphoria, though maybe half of the time I felt pleasantly relaxed. I did have perceptual shifts and "insights" while under, but nothing which lasted after the comedown (and only a little I could remember).
I still wonder if IV would give better antidepressant results. Or maybe MXE. I have tried a high DXM dose once before, but it was less enjoyable/illuminating than K.
I'm not sure what to do now. It excites me to hear of other people's successes, though.
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If you're trying to curb your depression I must recommend MXE. MXE is the depression wonder drug. I went through my K purchase and it was cool but it seems like you need double the amount of K to get the same effect of MXE. And MXE is cheaper so it makes sense to go with the MXE. I've been on depression drugs (everything that's out there) since 1996 and have stopped taking them about 9 days ago because they don't work and MXE does. I didn't even have any of the AWFUL withdrawal effects that I usually got if I missed taking my depression medicine cocktail.
*In saying all that I'm not advocating that people stop taking their meds. It was a personal choice for me and I honestly have never felt better.
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There have been a handful of studies that suggest Ketamine can at least for a while, cure depression. The intriguing part:
- It's supposedly _fast_, like 2 hours compared to 6 weeks for Prozac or conventional stuff
- Works on major depression, when other meds would not help.
Can anyone speak from experience about this?
The word "Cure" is a tricky word. That implies you won't have depression anymore. A better word is "remission" (as far as medical literature, you can't "cure" depression, you can only put it into remission).
I've seen several articles that Ketamine works FAST with depression response (I've heard several days--not hours)--Yes, WHILE you take it, you'll feel good..but just like Ecstasy and the "Tuesday Blues"--once you come down---you'll still be depressed. I can't WAIT...until Psychiatrists actually to Clinical Trials.....we'll see, but I've heard the same as you have (just different duration).
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However, nootropics are also very helpful. Such as Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, 2c-d, etc.
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Ever since I started using MXE my depression and anxiety has dissipated. It's like I can't think negative thoughts anymore. I can try, but it doesn't bother me like it used to. I like to use the word content rather than happy.
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What after effect does Ketamine have if you are not depressed? Will you be even happier or feel heightened well being for a couple weeks?
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Does anyone know why ketamine and MXE are able to alleviate anxiety and depression days or weeks after they wear off?
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What after effect does Ketamine have if you are not depressed? Will you be even happier or feel heightened well being for a couple weeks?
In the beginning, I used to get a great after-glow on ketamine. I'd feel more euphoric and see colors more vividly for between one and five days after the trip. As I grew used to the drug, though, this afterglow effect wore off. All that's left of it now is that I feel more talkative and empathic for the first five or so hours after tripping. In the first one to two hours after the trip, the body feels lethargic: heavy muscles, a slight fatigue, kind of like you slept in a bad position, plus you get the feeling that your balance is a bit compromised. This aftereffect still happens to me, but it's easy to get used to.
Does anyone know why ketamine and MXE are able to alleviate anxiety and depression days or weeks after they wear off?
In both cases, the anti-depressive effects are supposed to last around two weeks, depending on the patient's metabolism.
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What after effect does Ketamine have if you are not depressed? Will you be even happier or feel heightened well being for a couple weeks?
In the beginning, I used to get a great after-glow on ketamine. I'd feel more euphoric and see colors more vividly for between one and five days after the trip. As I grew used to the drug, though, this afterglow effect wore off. All that's left of it now is that I feel more talkative and empathic for the first five or so hours after tripping. In the first one to two hours after the trip, the body feels lethargic: heavy muscles, a slight fatigue, kind of like you slept in a bad position, plus you get the feeling that your balance is a bit compromised. This aftereffect still happens to me, but it's easy to get used to.
Do you worry that this is affecting your brain chemistry? In the same way that an opium user has a diminishing high, could your endorphin receptors be decreasing and producing a diminishing afterglow?
What if you take a few months off from Ketamine. Do you get an afterglow then?
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What after effect does Ketamine have if you are not depressed? Will you be even happier or feel heightened well being for a couple weeks?
In the beginning, I used to get a great after-glow on ketamine. I'd feel more euphoric and see colors more vividly for between one and five days after the trip. As I grew used to the drug, though, this afterglow effect wore off. All that's left of it now is that I feel more talkative and empathic for the first five or so hours after tripping. In the first one to two hours after the trip, the body feels lethargic: heavy muscles, a slight fatigue, kind of like you slept in a bad position, plus you get the feeling that your balance is a bit compromised. This aftereffect still happens to me, but it's easy to get used to.
Do you worry that this is affecting your brain chemistry? In the same way that an opium user has a diminishing high, could your endorphin receptors be decreasing and producing a diminishing afterglow?
What if you take a few months off from Ketamine. Do you get an afterglow then?
I've noticed no other symptoms besides this, so I don't worry too much. I think my brain is just getting used to the drug. Taking one or two months off does wonders for my tolerance (it builds up very quickly, for me at least) but it does nothing to bring back the afterglow.
Oddly, I do get that same afterglow (for now, at least) when I do DXM, which is another dissociative. I suppose eventually it will fade away, too. That might be the last push I need to finally try some MXE. ;)
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I've been using ketamine as an alternative treatment to SSRIs since July last year and it works for me.
Some observations I'd like to share for others considering this:
- I had been on Lexapro 10mg/day from April 2008 until September 2011. There was a period of concurrent use of ketamine and the Lexapro for about a two months, but then I went travelling and forgot to take the Lexapro with me. On previous occasions where I had gone two or three days without the Lexapro I would get symptoms of SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome (mainly brain-shocks). This time, they were completely absent so I basically when cold turkey off the Lexapro from then on. I'm not say the ketamine is the reason for this, but it is an interesting co-incidence that needs more investigation.
- I only administer ketamine via IM injection. My typical dosages vary between 0.5mg/kg of body-weight and 1.25 mg/kg of body-weight. Within this range, the dosage has (for me) no effect on the efficacy or duration of the anti-depressive effect. However, I find with the low dosages it is felt sooner because there is less of a ketamine "hang-over" that needs to dissipate. For someone interested in using this substance purely for its anti-depressant properties, a low dose would be preferable.
- The effects last about two weeks. I treat myself once a week to maintain efficacy.
- For a two month period during November and December I had no access to ketamine due to being scammed by a vendor here (thanks serious_sam). After two weeks, I began to feel depression creeping back and over the next six weeks it got progressively worse (remember I was off SSRIs now) up to the point where my state of mind was at a pre-SSRI low after Christmas. Fortunately Dr Amsterdam came through for me just before New Year with a new supply (I can recommend this vendor for both speed of service and purity of product).
- Immediately after getting re-supplied and commencing treatment, I was back feeling normal again.
- Compared to the SSRI I was on, I find ketamine a much nicer anti-depressant because it has fewer side effects, only needs to be taken once a week and allows a greater range of emotions. The SSRI had me range bound within a really narrow emotional plateau. I couldn't feel sadness or get really happy about something. Also, I had become very apathetic about life. Comfortably Numb would be an apt phrase to describe my mental condition after three years on Lexapro. Ketamine lets me feel sad, I can cry when appropriate, and feel joy when appropriate. But it keeps me at a very normal baseline. The apathy has also disappeared and I feel more motivated and interested in life again.
For now I'm just grateful for this substance and hope that it works as a long term treatment to a chronic condition. It is not a one-time miracle cure, as I need to keep on using it. But I needed to take SSRIs chronically as well, so not much difference there. I still have the underlying depression, as my "holiday" from ketamine showed, but it is under control and I am getting on with my life.
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Does anyone know why ketamine and MXE are able to alleviate anxiety and depression days or weeks after they wear off?
It seems to affect the glutamate system in a way that causes brain cells to form new connections.
From http://www.sciencemag.org/content/329/5994/959.abstract
The rapid antidepressant response after ketamine administration in treatment-resistant depressed patients suggests a possible new approach for treating mood disorders compared to the weeks or months required for standard medications. However, the mechanisms underlying this action of ketamine [a glutamate N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) receptor antagonist] have not been identified. We observed that ketamine rapidly activated the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) pathway, leading to increased synaptic signaling proteins and increased number and function of new spine synapses in the prefrontal cortex of rats. Moreover, blockade of mTOR signaling completely blocked ketamine induction of synaptogenesis and behavioral responses in models of depression. Our results demonstrate that these effects of ketamine are opposite to the synaptic deficits that result from exposure to stress and could contribute to the fast antidepressant actions of ketamine.
Maybe someone with access to academic journals can post the full text of that article?
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In NYC the New York-Presbyterian/Columbia University Medical Center was actually doing a study to see if Ketamine can be used for an Anti-Depressant. They were giving people injections of it, something like %0.001 of it. An incredible low dose, every day, or every other day or something. and i read from this one person who was in the study and he said it actually worked for him. But once they stopped giving it to him or it wore off, his depression came. So in a way, it helps your depression if you use it everyday, but once you stop, the depression comes back, so in a way, it didn't cure his depression. but it seemed that way while he was getting his shots.
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K has been a drug I was always curious about, but never had an opportunity to try, this thread has me even more curious!
Hopefully not hi-jacking the thread by asking, but anyone have any recommendations for reliable vendors with good product? Preferably USA, or at least with a good track record of making it in the country. Mainly interested in K since it sounds like it'd be more fun, but might be interested in MXE too.
Looks like Tony has good K, and shipping from Canada seems fairly safe. Am i correct that you snort the stuff he sells?
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Dr Amsterdam is my current vendor of choice. He ships out of the Netherlands though. Perhaps ask him what his success rate is getting material into the US. Canada seems like a good option if you are in the US.
On SR, ketamine is generally sold in powder form because it is cheaper and easier to conceal than vials of liquid. Powder is easily snorted, but if you want to inject it is really simple to dissolve it in some saline solution.
What I usually do is measure out 9ml of saline per gram that I want to dissolve into a glass that has been sterilized. I heat the water for a couple of seconds in the microwave (makes things dissolve faster, although clean K is very soluble). Then I add the powder, stir until it dissolves and draw into a syringe. I then top up the syringe with saline to the closest multiple of 10ml. This way, 1ml = 100mg. I keep the solution in this syringe and decant the smaller amounts I want to inject into a smaller syringe when I am ready to use it.
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In NYC the New York-Presbyterian/Columbia University Medical Center was actually doing a study to see if Ketamine can be used for an Anti-Depressant. They were giving people injections of it, something like %0.001 of it. An incredible low dose, every day, or every other day or something. and i read from this one person who was in the study and he said it actually worked for him. But once they stopped giving it to him or it wore off, his depression came. So in a way, it helps your depression if you use it everyday, but once you stop, the depression comes back, so in a way, it didn't cure his depression. but it seemed that way while he was getting his shots.
Yes, it works as a treatment not a cure, in the same way as other chronic medication needs to be taken on a regular basis to treat the underlying condition.
%0.001 isn't a quantity, but from what I've read and experienced the effective dosage for depression treatment is lower then the threshold dose for a trip. For people who do not like the trippy effects of ketamine it is suggested to have smaller injections on a more regular basis. I've seen suggested treatment protocols of 0.3mg/kg bodyweigh every third day. That was for IV administration, but should work for IM as well.
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On SR, ketamine is generally sold in powder form because it is cheaper and easier to conceal than vials of liquid. Powder is easily snorted, but if you want to inject it is really simple to dissolve it in some saline solution.
Thanks for the reply, not into IVing personally. I'm assuming that it's reasonably safe to eyeball how much you're going to snort? I don't have a scale or anything, would probably just do small bumps and proceed carefully.
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ketamine for me is very spiritually cleansing. i have never suffered from clinical depression (although did suffer PSTD from incarcerations) but do have anxiety disorders. ketamine use reduced all these problems temporarily.. it was like going through a spiritual refresh. stress and bad feelings that had been banked disappeared.
that's the best way i can describe it. effects can be permanent if the experience is profound (i used to fear death greatly (raised catholic) and lost that)
*destiny*
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On SR, ketamine is generally sold in powder form because it is cheaper and easier to conceal than vials of liquid. Powder is easily snorted, but if you want to inject it is really simple to dissolve it in some saline solution.
Thanks for the reply, not into IVing personally. I'm assuming that it's reasonably safe to eyeball how much you're going to snort? I don't have a scale or anything, would probably just do small bumps and proceed carefully.
Oh, you definitely don't want to IV this stuff on your own: you'll likely be unconscious before you've finished the injection. They were using IV in the clinical trials because a) the duration is shorter and b) it was being administered by a medical professional. Recreational users who inject do so via IM, don't know how you feel about doing that. Personally I find it cleaner than snorting, the onset is faster (but 2 minutes so you have time to finish the injection and put the needle away safely and lie down), also, IM uses less material. Also, because the material is dissolved in a liquid it is simple to get exact quantities without a scale. There is a stick thread at the top of the forum on proper IM technique if you are interested (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=2072.0).
For measuring out doses for snorting without a scale, well, you can either eyeball or divide your gram in half and half again. That will give you four piles of 250mg each. Divvy these in half again if you want 125mg.
And yes, at the quantities you are using, eyeballing is safe. Even full anesthetic doses are safe (ket was introduced as a battlefield anesthetic which could be administered without the need for an dedicated anesthetist) and for recreational use you are using far less than that. Obviously you need to be in a safe environment and not driving because the dissociative effects cause you to lose motor control of your muscles. Personally, I like to lie down and close my eyes after injecting, and listen to music for an hour or so.
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Yes, that's true. I believe it was something like every 3rd day. I can't actually remember if it was IM or IV. Most likely IV. But yes, A very small amount. an amount you wouldn't even feel.
But if you're new to k and want to start small. I'd suggest doing key bumps. That's a pretty safe way to get as little as possible yet feel some of the high the correct way, and then you are able to judge for yourself if you want to take another one or way. But in the beginning, doing key bump are a safe way to dose IMO. Then when you get the hang of how much your taste requires, then you'll be able to eyeball the amount you like and just make it into lines.
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I kind of work in the area of helping people with depression. Its a real nasty illness is depression but there are people who care out there and its not like it used to be. People are more accepting now.
As for Ketamine I have followed the various trials and looked into this matter. I was interested in Blaq Peters comments and thank him for being so honest and so descriptive. In fact thanks to all here debating the matter. Anything that can help depression is a Godsend and people self medicate on all manner of things. They also have many other things that help to tackle depression - ways of helping yourself. Diet, lifestyle, friends, family and relationships. Some depression is due to things that happened and other times it just happens to you for no reason. Life may be fine and then its not.
Well Ketamine might well be a good thing and I am following Blaq Peters medical usage with interest. SSRIs are hit or miss. Trouble us they take weeks to hit or miss. Imagine buying cannabis which might work in a few weeks after consuming? Seems wrong that people with depression do not have a drug which works NOW.
Well some drugs do work now as in right away. Speed, heroin, cocaine, I am sure anyone with depression would feel better on one of those. But that way of defeating depression is a way to open up more troubles in the form of being an addict just for the sake of overcoming depression.
Ketamine is not a daily drug I take it. Not used it myself. Not sure if its my thing as I am a big smoker of the hash and weed. But using once a week - I think most would ingest it orally. I'm intrigued as to how people feel when using it and this 'afterglow'. But I am more interested by Blaq Peter and wonder how bad was the depression you had? On a scale of 1 to 10 - were 10 is basically someone who has planned suicide. I've been a 10 myself bro. Don't mind saying it myself. But things are good now.
I thank those who take the time and trouble to inform others about how they tackle depression.
As well as ketamine do you live a healthy life when not using? Are things ok for you right now would you say? I hope so man. And to anyone out there with depression do talk to people about it. Don't isolate yourself and self med with drugs that 'work' until you stop using. We all have the choice to use what we want and I have no problems there. I know many use heroin due to depression. It was a drug that made them feel comfortable for the first time for years. We have many in the UK on pure morphine due to medical reasons. They seem fairly perky and function 100% in their daily lives.
This ketamine thread is a good one. I will keep looking in.
My best to anyone out there in our little virtual community of fellow travelers on the road less traveled.
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I'm going to order some MXE for my anxiety/depression. What is a recommended dose for treatment purposes (I'm 140lbs)? And how often should I take it?
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SSRIs are hit or miss. Trouble us they take weeks to hit or miss. Imagine buying cannabis which might work in a few weeks after consuming? Seems wrong that people with depression do not have a drug which works NOW.
SSRIs are a pain in the ass. Like you say, they take ages to work, and even if they do manage to lift the depression they leave you as something less than what you were before the depression started, an emotionally empty husk. Add to their vague efficiency the negative side effects such as weight gain, loss of libido and anhedonia; and the fact that you become physically addicted to them (SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome is just a fancy way of saying withdrawal symptoms from substance dependence) and suddenly they don't seem that great. Even the tricyclics (TCAs) I've tried are subjectively better and more effective than SSRIs.
Ketamine is not a daily drug I take it. Not used it myself. Not sure if its my thing as I am a big smoker of the hash and weed. But using once a week - I think most would ingest it orally. I'm intrigued as to how people feel when using it and this 'afterglow'. But I am more interested by Blaq Peter and wonder how bad was the depression you had? On a scale of 1 to 10 - were 10 is basically someone who has planned suicide. I've been a 10 myself bro. Don't mind saying it myself. But things are good now.
Its hard to rate the scale of my depression, but at the point in early April 2008 when I had finally had enough and decided to seek help I was a wreck and facing reality seemed insurmountable. I lived for the few precious moments of consciousness after I woke up and before I remembered who and where I was and what awaited me. I was diagnosed with depression and general anxiety disorder and then started the meds. I had not planned a suicide but I had considered it. 8/10? I think things could've gotten worse.
I distinctly remember popping my first Xanax and feeling the weight of the world slip away, and suddenly it felt quiet around me as if I had been listening to white noise 24/7 for the past year. I guess that is what the ketamine "afterglow" feels like: its not an afterglow like one would get from mushrooms, which is normal+feels good mam. A week after ketamine is a return to absolute normality and peace where you can get on with your life and feel happy or sad as you want to when you should. It doesn't feel like you are on anything (because, you aren't, its out of the system in about 12 hours) and you don't feel up or euphoric for no reason, but you can easily get there. On the other end of the scale, I can feel sad again. A friend was murdered in a violent crime in February and I was able to grieve properly, which SSRIs would have made impossible. I had a good cry and reflected on the fragile nature of life, but at no time was I down and feeling overwhelmed by the situation (like I would have been with depression).
As well as ketamine do you live a healthy life when not using? Are things ok for you right now would you say? I hope so man. And to anyone out there with depression do talk to people about it.
I try to live a healthy lifestyle, but its not like I'm running marathons or something! I use K once a week on the weekend. Its my therapy session. Things are better than okay right now, no worries. Best job satisfaction I've had in years and starting to date again after going through a divorce last year. While I acknowledge that I have depression, I'm not suffering from it anymore and would say it is in remission. I'm comfortable but not numb and I'm starting to take an interest in life again.
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I'm going to order some MXE for my anxiety/depression. What is a recommended dose for treatment purposes (I'm 140lbs)? And how often should I take it?
There's a guy on here, RapidImprovement, with a thread about use MXE as a depression treatment: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=5066.0
I'm not a fan myself, but the key seems to be using miniscule doses. Hope it works out for you.
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May be of interest to some...
http://www.dosenation.com/listing.php?id=8546
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I remember hearing about this on NPR a few weeks ago. Very interesting stuff, eh? :-)
Evidently, Ketamine is useful for depression in that it blocks the excess secretion of glutamate in the brain. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter and the presence of too much is believed to be neuro-toxic and perhaps the cause of depression for many. This is casting doubt on the exclusivity of the serotonin-deficient model of depression that has predominated in psychiatry over the last couple decades. And I'm not surprised. I've always figured the mechanisms behind depression are not singular for the entire depressed population: there are several neurotransmitters at play here and that's the reason depression is so difficult to treat.
As someone who has been on SSRIs for depression in the past, I can tell you there is a portion of patients for whom SSRIs of ANY brand will simply not work. I'm actually quite interested in Ketamine for the treatment of my own ongoing mild depression. I have my suspicions about MXE, however: sure, it's similar structurally but lacks the history, research and anecdotal evidence to back it up.
Does anyone know of a reputable domestic (USA) Ketamine vendor here on SR? PM me if so. All this talk has renewed my interest in trying out K for my own symptoms. May make it my next order!
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I think this is the study a lot of you are referring to;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21557878
IV 0.2 mg/kg over 1-2min and then followed for 10 days showed ketamine effective for the treatment
of suicide ideation in an ER setting.
Ketamine is also found to work in depressed patients - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10686270
I think this is the best study to date; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15500598
It found schizotypal and perceptual distortions persist after ketamine use.
I think if you find ketamine works for your depression you should see if you can get some Namenda - it's an NMDA receptor antagonist - just like ketamine - and the side effect profile is a bit better if your going to be taking something regularly.
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I'm a 30 yo man, tried many mind altering substances like lsd, shrooms, 2cs, thc, DMT, alcohol, ketamine.... and this substance is REALLY helping me to treat a severe depression and break downs that seemed to have grown and aged with me.
I found it useful as a "1" shot dose (0.33g) once in a week, passing this dose can worsen the depression and get you in more troubles of addiction. (Don't do it in frequent small bumps)
And absolutely its not a rave drug, its a treatment, turn off ur mobile phone, do it in calm place, laying on ur bed or something comfortable.
your mood will be up lifted for at least 4 days after the entrance of the k-hole.
anyways, its not a cure its just a periodic treatment.
real cure must be applied on our fucked up society.
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i <3 Kelly!!!!
every so often I need to do K. all this stuff builds up in my head and starts to bring me down...when I take the K, its like my head opens up and all that shit just flys out into the cosmos and disperses like vapor. sometimes it takes a couple consecutive sessions, but i feel fantastic afterwards. there's a skip in my step and a twinkle in my eye for a good while afterwards. my habit for the past decade has been to do K between 1 and 5 times per year; sometimes its just a single night of K use, but other times its 6 nights in a row. I do what it takes to get to my breakthrough point, and I sure as fuck know it when I hit it. after i've done what I set out to do, I lose interest in using the drug for a while and it just sits in my stash box.
gotta be careful you don't abuse Kelly, because if you do she will find a way to take your life and that is no joke. but if you treat her with respect, she will reciprocate.
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Yes, but only in hard depresion, and in littel dossis.
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when i get to an ending road with Ketamine, ill experience the MXE... but for me, K is working fine.
after 1 Year of using K, i developed my own image on depression, its like a large gravitational hole. always thirsty and need to swallow all the submitted feelings and ideas in my mind, and left me in the void, sober, detached from reality, unable to complete the tasks i already started, no feelings, nothing interested. just bored and unhappy. fuck it its like being almost dead.
the K trip FEED this hole very well with some PROFOUND understanding of this world, its like this depression hole is always asking for deep and profound ideas so it can cool down for a period of time.
now i'm trying to look for a solution away from sniffing K, i think learning to play music or make some pretty professional drawings, or maybe doing some interesting research on some aspects of life, will help me feed this hole the same way that K does.
and yes, better to reduce the dosage gradually over a period of time.
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It is amazing stuff. Even 10-20mg IM, not enough to even feel loopy and the next few days you'll feel like a million bucks. Most depression meds take weeks to start working, if they do, or they make things worse. K always works when used sparingly. If you use it every day it doesn't work anymore..
Higher doses don't really seem to make that feeling any stronger.
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in to read later
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I suffer from bipolar II and I take lamotrigine daily as a mood stabilizer. I also take a complex multivitamin and some other vitamin supplements, as well as fish oil and 5-htp daily to boost my mood. My regimen works, although I can't tell you which of these is most key. I would also not want to list everything in my multivitamin but it includes a lot of amino acids, which are definitely important to the regimen.
I found that both ketamine and MXE, as well as 3-MeO-PCP, have been good mood boosters. However, the effects are temporary, and as tolerance climbs so does the effect's duration dwindle.
I find the best routes of administration for therapeutic effects of these drugs are intramuscular injection for ketamine, sublingual or buccal administration for MXE, and insufflation for 3-MeO-PCP.
If I want to achieve antidepressant effects, I would usually take a fairly large dose of ketamine instramuscularly and listen to calming music or engage in friendly conversation with close friends for the duration of the experience, about once a week. Meditation or contemplation is quite helpful.
With MXE I would take a medium-small dose buccally in the morning, and a very tiny dose buccally in the afternoon. MXE is stimulating, so I would keep my dose at least 4 hours away from bedtime. I would do this daily 5/7 days of the week (usually Monday through Friday). This is more likely to build tolerance, so vacations once in a while might be a good idea.
With 3-MeO-PCP I would take a very large dose once every few weeks, and spend the entire trip listening to intricate and chaotic music, and talking to myself about my issues, alone. I found that I need to be disturbed, not comforted, to take advantage of the therapeutic effects of this drug. Although the most troubling of the three it's also the most rewarding.
In general, though, MXE is a good bet for most. It's inexpensive and it works quite well.
Again, not a cure, but a treatment.