Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: ulfricshoutface on January 30, 2012, 05:29 pm

Title: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: ulfricshoutface on January 30, 2012, 05:29 pm
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/01/30/how-technology-complicates-the-war-on-drugs-guns-and-drugs-for-sale-online
1/30/2012
The War on Drugs is forty-years-old, but since Nixon launched the federal government’s attempt to crack down on illicit substances and drug users, one very important thing has changed: we now have the internet.

Gawker’s Adrian Chen broke the story of the underground website Silk Road a while back, noting at the time that just about any drug imaginable could be purchased through the site – if you knew how to get there.

The site is cloaked just beneath the surface of an average internet user’s typical browsing session:
 
"Silk Road, a digital black market that sits just below most internet users’ purview, does resemble something from a cyberpunk novel. Through a combination of anonymity technology and a sophisticated user-feedback system, Silk Road makes buying and selling illegal drugs as easy as buying used electronics—and seemingly as safe. It’s Amazon—if Amazon sold mind-altering chemicals.

Here is just a small selection of the 340 items available for purchase on Silk Road by anyone, right now: a gram of Afghani hash; 1/8th ounce of “sour 13″ weed; 14 grams of ecstasy; .1 grams tar heroin. A listing for “Avatar” LSD includes a picture of blotter paper with big blue faces from the James Cameron movie on it. The sellers are located all over the world, a large portion from the U.S. and Canada."

Most non-techies won’t have any idea the site even exists:

"Getting to Silk Road is tricky. The URL seems made to be forgotten. But don’t point your browser there yet. It’s only accessible through the anonymizing network TOR, which requires a bit of technical skill to configure."

The site does have rules, however – no weapons of mass destruction, no assassination contracts – nothing violent or potentially violent for these cyber-anarchists, who use Bitcoin – a nearly untraceable online currency – to conduct all their transactions.

Well – that was then.

Things have changed since Chen first reported on the site:

"Back when we broke the story in June, Silk Road’s anonymous administrator said he wouldn’t allow weapons to be sold on the site. But since then, an entire subcategory for firearms has sprung up. [...]

One of the most well-regarded vendor of firearms is a user named Dbush, who sells guns from the U.S. and Mexico and has 100% feedback from over 100 transactions. (Those weren’t all guns; he also sells meth, LSD and ecstasy.) Dbush’s user profile on the site boasts he can procure “AK pistols, AR15 pistols, and many tactical style guns. Additionally regular style shotguns, rifles, and handguns are available.”

Dbush told us in a message that most of his customers are Europeans trying to circumvent their countries’ strict gun laws. “Every single citizen should have enough firepower that the government fears the citizens. The people should not fear the government,” he said.

Dbush said he tries not to sell guns to people who want to kill civilians or commit crimes. But most importantly, he won’t sell to people who are anti-American or anti-Israel. “I would try to keep their money if I found out this was the case. Maybe send it 2 the US Israeli lobby 2 help gain more support for Israel,” he wrote."

Chen wonders:

"Will we be seeing a dramatic Megaupload-style takedown of Silk Road soon? Or are the anonymizing technologies it uses, the TOR network, and the cryptocurrency Bitcoin, advanced enough to hide its users? Maybe we’ve reached a point where a brazenly open drug market will exist just below the surface of the internet forever. Personally, I doubt it."

More likely the AFT will use the site to sell firearms to cartels in Mexico and then lose track of the guns….

On a more serious note, what we’re seeing here is the ease with which an anonymous black market community can take advantage of the various tools available to them to circumvent international and domestic law and yes, quite brazenly sell illicit drugs, guns, and other items to buyers anywhere.

Using a hacker currency like Bitcoin, software designed to cloak online actions in anonymity, and enough willing participants, this black market can be recreated with relative ease if Silk Road is ever taken down.

Like a real-world drug operation, when one is taken down another pops right back up.

The example of Silk Road is telling.

First off, it underscores the futility of the war on drugs. All the billions we pour into it are wasted. It’s hard enough to crack down on physical drug dealers, let alone hacker black markets. The prisons are overflowing with nonviolent offenders.

The reasons to stop wasting taxpayer money on this front are too numerous to list here.

But the second lesson, for me at least, is much more troubling.

I’m a tech enthusiast, and when I look at a lot of things that the internet can do for average people I’m typically pretty optimistic. Taking the power out of the hands of repressive governments is generally a good thing. Something like Silk Road, however, makes me nervous.

For one thing, the site right now may have rules against weapons of mass destruction but what’s to stop another similar site from trafficking not in drugs but in child pornography or slavery? Human trafficking is  huge problem across the globe.

The internet, and especially dark sites that operate behind the veil of anonymity, give the sex slave trade a huge advantage.

Frankly, I find that pretty terrifying. The cyber-libertarian or cyber-anarchist in us might be sympathetic to online marijuana sales. That enthusiasm withers on the vine rather quickly when the sale involves something like child pornography.

There’s a dark side to techno-triumphalism.

No clear solutions exist, either, for those of us who value both security and liberty. This is all part of the same conversation we’ve been having about the NDAA, SOPA, ACTA, and the numerous other attempts to strike a balance. Too often, these attempts strike that balance in a lopsided manner – tilting the equation toward the forces of control and protectionism.

Does Silk Road represent the opposite? A site operating too far outside the purview not just of government but of civil society? More importantly, even if the drugs themselves only harm the people who take them, are there other much more worrisome sites like Silk Road out there?

Technology is a double-edged sword. In many ways it’s an infinitely-edged sword.

I look at the War on Drugs and I think: We’re putting our money into the wrong place. If we took the tens of billions we spend every year to combat drug use and put it toward stopping sex traffickers, I think we’d do a lot more good – even if we can never make the world a perfect place.

Technology will at once help and hinder us in our pursuit of justice. It was ever thus.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: redforeva on January 30, 2012, 05:31 pm
god damn it  >:(
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: FreeLife1 on January 30, 2012, 05:40 pm
"I look at the War on Drugs and I think: We’re putting our money into the wrong place. If we took the tens of billions we spend every year to combat drug use and put it toward stopping sex traffickers, I think we’d do a lot more good – even if we can never make the world a perfect place."

Agreed, the governments war on drugs needs to be reconsider, and we need someone with the balls in office to make a drastic change. (If the people in office actually think for themselves, which is another story)

This article isnt bad at all..no worries or frustrations for this cat.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: Scot Walker on January 30, 2012, 05:45 pm
Agreed, the article isn't really bad, but it does bring unwanted negative attention to SR. The more mainstream media places that report on SR, the worse off we're going to be.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: guns4europe on January 30, 2012, 05:54 pm
free publicity for Silk Road means more buyers on here :)
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: DigitalAlch on January 30, 2012, 06:46 pm
Smarter readers, better written article, and somewhat balanced - I don't mind. We were never 'in the shadows'. We have had a spotlight on us since  the first article. All we can do now is grow : )

Peace,
DigitalAlch
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: MagicMan on January 30, 2012, 08:07 pm
I like forbes, maybe it'll attract a big wig to invest in bitcoin and make us speculators rich!
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: BenJesuit on January 30, 2012, 08:43 pm
Taking down MegaUpload was like picking low hanging fruit. Taking down SR will take significantly more intelligence and time. Probably the best the govt can muster is to pose as sellers and pinch enough buyers (if they actually can - won't be easy to positively ID a buyer if at all possible) to sow distrust of sellers in general. But even doing something like that would be skirting the law. So that likelihood of that is low.

SR and the like will end up being a permanent condition of the web until all anonymity is removed from society. 
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: demarcko on January 30, 2012, 09:11 pm
Taking down MegaUpload was like picking low hanging fruit. Taking down SR will take significantly more intelligence and time. Probably the best the govt can muster is to pose as sellers and pinch enough buyers (if they actually can - won't be easy to positively ID a buyer if at all possible) to sow distrust of sellers in general. But even doing something like that would be skirting the law. So that likelihood of that is low.

SR and the like will end up being a permanent condition of the web until all anonymity is removed from society. 

BenJesuit... You're a really smart guy. I can tell you have a good head on your shoulders. But for you to say that SR will end up being a permanent condition until all anonymity is removed? I just think that sometimes you're a little overly confident. I suggest you and everybody else for that matter to head on over to the security/cryptography forum and read some posts by a user whose name starts with k... it's like ktmmljadl... or something like that. Chances are you probably don't have an extensive background in cryptography, and by extensive I mean EXTENSIVE. But neither do I, and unless we do... then we don't really know what were talking about or what we're dealing with.

Also I was a little hurt when you suggested that I was stupid in the other thread. I don't believe that's the way to address your readers.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: novocaine on January 30, 2012, 09:11 pm
I dont mean to nit pick a relatively good article but I found the separation between SR, child porn and slavery very vague in that article.

Also drug users only harm themselves?? Im fucking killing myself here...literally...apparently.

Anyway...mostly it was a good read.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: novocaine on January 30, 2012, 09:14 pm
Taking down MegaUpload was like picking low hanging fruit. Taking down SR will take significantly more intelligence and time. Probably the best the govt can muster is to pose as sellers and pinch enough buyers (if they actually can - won't be easy to positively ID a buyer if at all possible) to sow distrust of sellers in general. But even doing something like that would be skirting the law. So that likelihood of that is low.

SR and the like will end up being a permanent condition of the web until all anonymity is removed from society. 

BenJesuit... You're a really smart guy. I can tell you have a good head on your shoulders. But for you to say that SR will end up being a permanent condition until all anonymity is removed? I just think that sometimes you're a little overly confident. I suggest you and everybody else for that matter to head on over to the security/cryptography forum and read some posts by a user whose name starts with k... it's like ktmmljadl... or something like that. Chances are you probably don't have an extensive background in cryptography, and by extensive I mean EXTENSIVE. But neither do I, and unless we do... then we don't really know what were talking about or what we're dealing with.

Also I was a little hurt when you suggested that I was stupid in the other thread. I don't believe that's the way to address your readers.

I read that as the 'concept' of SR and not literally SR itself.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: Silpheed on January 30, 2012, 09:40 pm
Taking down SR might be difficult, but authorities could just go after the mail system. Defund the USPS or make them open every parcel or put every parcel through backscatter X-ray machines or put electronic tracking devices on every package.

But I think the fear of LE is kind of like the fear of dying in a plane crash. Yes it happens, but a passenger is far more likely to die of a heart attack, or in a car accident on the way to the airport. Or in this case, being scammed out of bitcoin.

If anyone can register for a buyer account for free, and Tor doesn't record any IP, then SR could collapse under the weight of buyer-shills and scammer-vendors before it falls to LE.

Or authorities could bribe some higher-up on SR.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: Holly on January 30, 2012, 09:51 pm
Or authorities could bribe some higher-up on SR.

Something tells me even the higher-ups relationship with each other is non face to face.....
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: Silpheed on January 30, 2012, 10:05 pm
Or authorities could bribe some higher-up on SR.

Something tells me even the higher-ups relationship with each other is non face to face.....

Well for example, right now SR is hiring for a database developer who's an expert in PL/pgSQL.

LE could pay a suitable candidate to apply and then act as an informant or spy.

The authorities could pay a lot of money (in bitcoins if necessary) to someone to turn and jump ship. Money talks.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: BenJesuit on January 30, 2012, 11:12 pm
Taking down MegaUpload was like picking low hanging fruit. Taking down SR will take significantly more intelligence and time. Probably the best the govt can muster is to pose as sellers and pinch enough buyers (if they actually can - won't be easy to positively ID a buyer if at all possible) to sow distrust of sellers in general. But even doing something like that would be skirting the law. So that likelihood of that is low.

SR and the like will end up being a permanent condition of the web until all anonymity is removed from society. 

BenJesuit... You're a really smart guy. I can tell you have a good head on your shoulders. But for you to say that SR will end up being a permanent condition until all anonymity is removed? I just think that sometimes you're a little overly confident. I suggest you and everybody else for that matter to head on over to the security/cryptography forum and read some posts by a user whose name starts with k... it's like ktmmljadl... or something like that. Chances are you probably don't have an extensive background in cryptography, and by extensive I mean EXTENSIVE. But neither do I, and unless we do... then we don't really know what were talking about or what we're dealing with.

Also I was a little hurt when you suggested that I was stupid in the other thread. I don't believe that's the way to address your readers.

I'll start backwards...

Never said or implied you were "stupid." But I was very curious as to why you were stating and implying things that weren't stated and arguing from there. Chalked it up to reading comprehension deficit or perhaps English as a second language. You have to admit, some of the conclusions you drew from what was written was a bit off.

Novocaine caught it properly. Didn't mean to imply SR literally would be a permanent condition but that the likes of SR would be a permanent condition. SR can end due to many reasons. Owners could tire of it or die and not pass it on. Marketplace could simply dry up. Et cetera.. But hidden TOR sites and markets will live on. Not much LE can do about it without an international effort to eliminate anonymity on the web. Without that, LE is relegated to merely playing a game whack-a-mole. Much like the war on drugs.

I definitely do not have an extensive background in cryptography. But a fairly decent general knowledge. Enough to know that there is hardly any impetus presently for a government agency to devote the resources necessary to taking down TOR sites or those who visit them. They know it's a game of whack-a-mole. At the most, some politician with sufficient influence will spur an attack or two for the purpose of putting a feather in his/her cap. The Agencies with the know how to successfully wage a war on TOR don't operate in that manner. Assuming that there is something that is of interest to them, they would rather leave it alone and monitor it to gain actionable and/or archive worthy intelligence than to take it down. You don't kill your source of intel.

Thanks for the compliment. Though, I should probably slow down on my drug of choice before I lose any more cognitive faculties than I've already have. If not for that, at least for tolerance sake.  :)
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: pine on January 31, 2012, 01:19 am
"what’s to stop another similar site from trafficking not in drugs but in child pornography or slavery? "

youmustbenewhere.jpg

Don't think the author did a whole lot of research since there are *already* dozens of sites on TOR, Freenet and other networks selling/distributing child porn. Those sites have been there for years, it's not exactly a new thing to LEO or the traffickers.

That gives me a lot of confidence that services like the Silk Road are going to be here in 1,2, 5 years time.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: hairyballs on January 31, 2012, 02:29 am
Sometime Earlier: Gawker

Earlier: US Senators

Now: Forbes

Later: BBC/CNN

Sometime Later: HTTP Status 503 - Service Unavailable ...

 :(
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: SouthSquareBiz on January 31, 2012, 07:05 am
I'm fairly new here.

Intelligent in a general sense.

Under the impression that it is much harder to catch what you can't see.

I don't mean SR is invisible, however, everyone that uses it is.

Resources are scarce in catching drug dealers in the real world. The only agency that has unlimited resources and a 98% conviction rate is the Feds and that is for the big boys. Drug busts that make the news and help one get promoted if they are LE.

Tracking down ip addresses, emails, blogs, and the like. You can trace trails of absolutely nothing before you are on to something and by then, if the creators of the anonymity are smart, it is too late all over again.

Always look left, look right, and look behind you but I have been hearing the same thing since I was a little kid: LE is ALWAYS a few steps behind and that hasn't changed.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: 46&2 on February 01, 2012, 01:37 am
LOL!
a wise old man once told me: "computers and the internet are tools of the devil"

;D
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: cloud9ne on February 01, 2012, 02:00 am
There are also dozens of Eastern European and CIS carding/crime forums operating in clearnet ripping off millions stealing magstripe dumps from insecure restaurant POS wireless. They've been around since 1997 and have survived many crackdowns. Catching online drug vendors is a lowest of low priorities for law enforcement. Though weapons shipping may spark them to devote resources but keep in mind said criminal clearnet forums have been weapons shipping for a decade or so. There's also been a European thermite and explosives online mail order hustle for as long as I remember
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: KingJoey on February 01, 2012, 09:08 am
Dbush said he tries not to sell guns to people who want to kill civilians or commit crimes. But most importantly, he won’t sell to people who are anti-American or anti-Israel. “I would try to keep their money if I found out this was the case. Maybe send it 2 the US Israeli lobby 2 help gain more support for Israel,” he wrote."

Lol how much do you wanna bet this Dbush guy is PeopleB4Profits/KingJoey/Advanced Logic, style of writing is exactly the same & if you look around this board you see people talking about dbush being a scammer. Great now everyones whipped into a panic over some guns that prob dont even exist & would never have been sold on SR anyway. oh & for anyone who didnt notice, KingJoey is back posting again, prob testing the water to see if anybody will call him on showing his scammer face around here again. Incase any of you noobs are not aware he scammed thousands from this community a few months ago under the name PeopleB4Profits by pretending to exchange moneypacks for BTC & then came back to brag about all the drugs he bought w/ the money he stole. Dude is a cancer on this site & the world in general...
You're accusing me of being a scammer, while I'm a honest person trying to make a honest living on here. All my clients have been satisfied so far with my offerings. I want you to apologise immediately for this slandering of my name
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: Damod78 on February 01, 2012, 11:40 am
facepalm
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: KingJoey on February 01, 2012, 09:31 pm
Anyone whose been here more than a couple months is already well aware of this but there was a sticky thread in the Rumor Mill about KingJoeys scams, as well as one for another name he used, PeopleB4Profits. The threads are gone now, either due to the message board software upgrade or some more suspicious reason, but you can see both names on the scammer list here along w/ links to the missing threads at this url: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=3520.msg29643

Also you can just put 'Kingjoey' or 'PeopleB4Profits' in the search box & you will find all you need to know about this piece of shit. But of course this is well known to most of this community by now, just trying to make sure the noobs arent suckered in just b/c this guy deleted his acct & then remade it pretending hes new here. Not everyone on this site is as stupid as you are you fucking dumbass, cant even believe you post in this thread when you know all anyone has to do is use that search box at the top of the page & all your bullshit will be revealed immediately. jesus christ what a tool
You sir are trying to ruin my business, are jealous on my profits perhaps? All those posted allegations in the past were later proven to be false. I'm a serious person and a reasonable guy so if you feel wronged you can always message me. But don't go tell lies and slander me
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: OuterLimits on February 01, 2012, 10:12 pm
Despite all of the media attention, I don't think that SR is in any immediate danger of being shutdown. Feds may be used to taking down servers on the clearnet that are easily traceable by IP address, but this is a whole new ball game for them. They can't go to the host and serve a warrant to find out what IP addresses have been served by that particular server/connection etc. Its a lot harder to track the customers & sellers on SR....as of right now their own laws are being used against them in the case of SR...one good example of this is that sellers in the US use USPS because it requires a special warrant from a special judge to open a package that is shipped via USPS because it is protected by US laws.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: DigiPimp on February 04, 2012, 05:24 pm
I find it funny that the writer of that article actually blames SR for the failure of the war on drugs. That's an absurd accusation. The reason a place like SR even exists in the first place is BECAUSE of the War on Drugs, not the drugs themselves.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: bionic1 on February 05, 2012, 03:40 am
Why should the government take down SR? They have no interest in this! Even with a 100'000 satisfied customers, SR would only be a tiny spot, that distributes drugs on the lowest level: to the drug users. Nothing compared to the international drug market, moving tons around every week. Apart from that, there is something way more interesting for the government than drugs: money. Destroying the currency of a nation and exploit all the resources, that is were you make the big money. All the bitcoins together are worth about 50mio USD and that's nothing. The cocaine market itself is a few billions, and so is illegal weapon trade, economy-espionage, etc. These are massive markets, and protecting it's monopole is a much much much higher priority to the government than taking care of some cypherpunkhippies trading their drugs for pocket money in darknets. What the government ultimatively hates is when their money gets stolen. There's nothing worse than taking away money from the government, for example by hacking NASDAQ, or money laundering, or prevent some big corporations from making more profit.

Always keep in mind that the Government and LE are nothing more than a corporation or company, tied to the same financial and economic principles like any other economic organization: Costs vs. Profit. They have to watch their finances the same way any other corporation has to. And everything they do is dominated by "how much does it cost, how much profit can we make". So you can do the math: How much work and money is necessary to take down SR versus how much money would they probably make with the accused sellers and the bitcoin wallets. How much investigation and money is necessary to catch the drugs sent to your home versus the money they probably make with accusing you. The equation is simple, and it can be applied to every aspect of government.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: zomgwtfbbq on February 05, 2012, 07:58 am
Well for example, right now SR is hiring for a database developer who's an expert in PL/pgSQL.

LE could pay a suitable candidate to apply and then act as an informant or spy.

Come on, let's think about this logically for a minute.  Suppose that LE did pay someone who fits the qualifications to apply for that role.  Let's suppose, even further, that this person got the job.  So what?  You don't really think that the powers that be are going to just turn this person loose on the servers. do you?  About all that could come out of it is that maybe LE would have some insight as to what the structure of the SR database schema looks like - but I think anyone with half a clue about how databases are designed could probably surmise a fair amount of that just by logging in and looking at the site. 

Oh, hey, Officer Piggleton, the SR website has a users table.

Besides, which LEO would even do it?  Who has jurisdiction?  For all we know, the SR servers could be in a data center in sub-Saharan Africa.  Good luck with that one, DEA.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: CocaCola on February 05, 2012, 08:59 am
As a total noob to SR, I have a funny story as to how I found this place in the first place.

I did not discover SR from the Gawker article, or the Senator Schumer outrage. I only learned that after I got here and did research.

No, I got here completely by accident. I Googled "Silk Road" because I was working on a history assignment  and doing research on the ancient trade link between Rome and China so I hit the Wikipedia link. Then I hit the "disambiguation" link and stumbled upon this awesome market place.

True story!

Three weeks later, I'm hooked and about to make my first purchase.

That Forbes article is surprisingly balanced considering the usual media hysteria employed against shit the powers that be don't like but one thing that freaks me out is the concept of "Eternal September". The idea that Internet communities of whatever nature get destroyed by mass influxes of new users. Right now, I'm one of those new users but in say, a year's time, SR may become a victim of its own success when the real masses swarm in.

My fingers are crossed but longevity on the Internet (even the dark one I suspect) is predicated on a small but stable community. Once the masses arrive, collective IQ plummets and the haters paint a big fat cross hairs on your head.

Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: bionic1 on February 05, 2012, 11:52 am
I Googled "Silk Road" because I was working on a history assignment  and doing research on the ancient trade link between Rome and China so I hit the Wikipedia link. Then I hit the "disambiguation" link and stumbled upon this awesome market place.

No way! ;D you must have been really astonished of the world you got into.


That Forbes article is surprisingly balanced considering the usual media hysteria employed against shit the powers that be don't like but one thing that freaks me out is the concept of "Eternal September". The idea that Internet communities of whatever nature get destroyed by mass influxes of new users. Right now, I'm one of those new users but in say, a year's time, SR may become a victim of its own success when the real masses swarm in.

My fingers are crossed but longevity on the Internet (even the dark one I suspect) is predicated on a small but stable community. Once the masses arrive, collective IQ plummets and the haters paint a big fat cross hairs on your head.

Very interesting post. I agree that the forbes article is balanced.
The mass influx phenomen is something that doesn't exclusively happens within net culture. Isn't that the normal evolution of any social community or subculture? Alternative people getting overrun by the stupid masses. Happened several times in the past 60 years, probably even before. For examples: the hippies, the techno subculture, the punk subculture, the goa psytrance scene, occupy wall street, etc. The sad thing is that those subcultures really created something cultural valuable, while the mass influx destroyed and sold it. On the other hand the mass hasn't really anything of cultural value but forces everyone to accept their consumer-society.

As for silkroad and the rest of the darknet: I dont think that it is suitable for the average person :) The whole tor, bitcoin, pgp stuff is way too complicated for them. Usenet was like that too, until AOL offered easy usenet access to millions which caused eternal september. But this will barely happen with SR.

When google removed terms like "torrent" and "rapidshare" from their auto-completion, the searches for pirated material dropped significantly, although the search results didn't change! It appears that already the lack of words like "rapidshare" and "torrent" in googles search proposals are an insurmountable "barrier" to normal people. Keep that in mind while you encrypt your address or launder your bitcoins... :)

In the worst case SR just has to use some algebra instead of captchas, and +95% wont be able to login anymore.

I once was a new user too. I came here through the first gawker article, which makes me technically a part of the mass influx too. (i came to the gawker article through a retweet on the site bitcoin.org, which I just discovered.  =) ) Now I'm an active member of the community and also feel that way. At the beginning I was participating as much as I do now. I read a lot and just tried to get to know the community and its dynamic first, so i can easier intergrate myself. Common rule when get to somewhere new: shut up and read (don't want to offense you with this).

The Point is, it doesn't matter if one is a new or old user, it doesn't matter what subculture one is into or whatsoever. What matters is that one is "real" and not a copie like the most people.

My advice to you:

- Trying MDMA is certainly a good idea.
- you seem intelligent. consider lsd.

Have a nice day!
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: Silpheed on February 07, 2012, 07:53 am
Come on, let's think about this logically for a minute.  Suppose that LE did pay someone who fits the qualifications to apply for that role.  Let's suppose, even further, that this person got the job.  So what?  You don't really think that the powers that be are going to just turn this person loose on the servers. do you?  About all that could come out of it is that maybe LE would have some insight as to what the structure of the SR database schema looks like - but I think anyone with half a clue about how databases are designed could probably surmise a fair amount of that just by logging in and looking at the site. 

Oh, hey, Officer Piggleton, the SR website has a users table.

Besides, which LEO would even do it?  Who has jurisdiction?  For all we know, the SR servers could be in a data center in sub-Saharan Africa.  Good luck with that one, DEA.

That was just an example. The point is that SR could be and possibly already is infiltrated by spies or informants or LE. Or simply someone willing to release information for the right price. Or some whiteknight vigilante.

Governments of many countries spend a lot of money trying to seize illegal drugs and also unlawful websites. The DEA would be an obvious organization. Or the ATF if guns are being sold on SR. If many packages have US destinations then the USPS is enabling it. There is also Customs. There is the IRS for tax evasion. There is also the Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering headquartered in Paris.

One website has noted there were 739K IP addresses mining bitcoin or using a bitcoin client. Other people on these forums have talked about vulnerabilities of Tor. And there's also the "How we could get busted" thread:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=10601.0

And from what I can tell the admin of SR has performed over 90 transactions himself. His return addresses may indicate a general area.
Title: Re: New Forbes article - How Technology Complicates The War On Drugs: Guns And Drugs
Post by: cacoethes on February 08, 2012, 08:40 am


I look at the War on Drugs and I think: We’re putting our money into the wrong place. If we took the tens of billions we spend every year to combat drug use and put it toward stopping sex traffickers, I think we’d do a lot more good – even if we can never make the world a perfect place.




I totally agree...  Unfortunately, there isn't any money to be made in stopping crimes which actually have victims.  The DEA has grown into a self-serving monster which exists for its own benefit and little else at this point. I suppose it's used by politicians to bludgeon to death a significant percentage of the American population, too.  In addition to the billions it gets in federal funding each year, it has the authority to seize billions more under asset forfeiture laws.