Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: John Keats on January 15, 2012, 02:56 am
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PLEASE GO TO THE NEW AND IMPROVED COMPLETE ALL-IN-ONE HOW-TO THREAD!
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=15383.0
Thanks!
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Nice guide, but if you encrypt your drives along with PGP you also leave no trace. Should be mentioned.
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Thanks Keats this is exactly what I needed.
DM can you elaborate? or others info on if it's 100% secure or other things needed. Thanks
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this is good tutorial. can anyone elaborate on how secure this is compared to any other method?
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Tails is not what you want to be using, liberte is.
And:
Nice guide, but if you encrypt your drives along with PGP you also leave no trace. Should be mentioned.
Is also true.
Download truecrypt and do a full disk encryption with a dummy one. (For countries it is illegal to refuse to give up encryption keys)
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Thanks Keats this is exactly what I needed.
DM can you elaborate? or others info on if it's 100% secure or other things needed. Thanks
As long as you hide your usb flashdrive well, and remember to change your boot priority after using this setup, there is absolutely no trace of you being on a computer. Tails already has solid encryption, and you shouldn't have to save anything to your usb anyway to merely use Silk Road.
Tails is not what you want to be using, liberte is.
And:
Nice guide, but if you encrypt your drives along with PGP you also leave no trace. Should be mentioned.
Is also true.
Download truecrypt and do a full disk encryption with a dummy one. (For countries it is illegal to refuse to give up encryption keys)
Tails and liberte are one and the same. Tails fixed all of its security exploits with its version 0.10 which was released less than two weeks ago, so at the moment I would say it's more secure. I chose Tails over Liberte because it's much more streamlined and user-friendly.
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Tails doesn't have persistent entry guards. This is a *major* anonymity vulnerability and puts you at a *much* higher risk of being deanonymized by even fairly weak attackers, particularly if you use it for an extended period of time. If you boot tails once a day for a month your risk of being deanonymized by an attacker engaging in a profiling attack is about the same as it would be had you used Tor with persistent entry guards for two and a half years. If you want to be as likely to be deanonymized by a profiling attack in a month as I am in two and a half years feel free to keep using Tails. IMHO Tails is actually probably more of an asset to people who want to trace Tor users than to people who want to avoid being traced. It makes it very easy for its users to greatly increase their vulnerability to one of the most dangerous and widely known attacks against the anonymity of Tor users. And it does this while acting like it is a security focused distro. In all honesty it isn't even that impressive of a configuration, even if you ignore the absolute deal breaker that it doesn't have persistent entry guards. It is a security toy with critical flaws in it. That it is suggested by the Tor devs is absolutely stupid, particularly since they will be the first to admit that it indeed *greatly* decreases user anonymity if it is used how it is intended to be used (as a live CD and not loaded from a persistent state via snapshots or similar). They may not admit that it is a security toy though, but it really isn't at all the ideal configuration. The only place Tails has in your security kit as for use as a live CD if you use random WiFi access points and don't want your sessions to be linkable to a single entity via the fingerprint your entry guards leave in the logs of the WAP (not many people use the same combination of entry guards, so by using that combination persistently you essentially leave a fingerprint at every WAP you use that will allow for an attacker to link all of your sessions to one entity). That is the only advantage of not having persistent entry guards, and for probably 99% of people using Tails it is entirely outweighed by the extremely real risk of reducing your protection from profiling attacks and making it *much* more likely that a given attacker manages to trace one of your Tor sessions to your actual location. Decide what is more important to you I guess, not having WAP sessions linkable to each other based on entry guards (btw you better also be using a MAC address randomizer between every session, in addition to some other things, or your sessions will be linkable even without an entry guard fingerprint) or not having your location traced in the first place.
As long as you hide your usb flashdrive well, and remember to change your boot priority after using this setup, there is absolutely no trace of you being on a computer. Tails already has solid encryption, and you shouldn't have to save anything to your usb anyway to merely use Silk Road.
If your security requires that you physically hide things you can rest assured that your security is absolute fucking shit. Hiding flash drives is suggested as a security technique by (estimated) 0% of security experts.
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Thanks for the write up, really helps the new guys out!
i was wondering tho for PGP within Tails how would i access my private/public key in order to give people to encrypt messages to me, I am aware of how to use PGP but not how to get the keys to use,
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This is how I do it:
I use visualization software. I encrypt virtual HD with truecrypt and I ensure that virtual OS has strong password.
This way you can run clean and dirty systems in parallel.
There are lots of posts described on this forum on how to properly do it.
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Read this thread to see why you should NOT be using full hardware virtualization systems like virtualbox
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=8524.0
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Read this thread to see why you should NOT be using full hardware virtualization systems like virtualbox
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=8524.0
can you point me to specific post? I read the thread and found lots of nonsense on how VM+truecrypt isn't secure.
thanx,
psilocin
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And so begins another round of slurry.
Everyone has a different method. And everyone else is wrong.
It would be nice to get a SOP on security, instead of 100 different versions.
The slurry will continue, until those with knowledge jump down from the perch, and those without start paying attention.
@kmfkewm: from reading your posts, it seems as though you are hacker elite, and nothing is safe. Maybe YOU should write out a standard operating procedure, and have affluent SR community, i.e, Mods & Staff approve, or disapprove, and THEN all of this shit can cease, and all of you geniuses can quit your picking on the newbs, and all the newbs can be safe SR travelers, and we can all be a happy fucking family of drug addicts, and gun nuts. JFCOAC!!
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Read this thread to see why you should NOT be using full hardware virtualization systems like virtualbox
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=8524.0
can you point me to specific post? I read the thread and found lots of nonsense on how VM+truecrypt isn't secure.
thanx,
psilocin
You obviously didn't read the entire thread
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And so begins another round of slurry.
Everyone has a different method. And everyone else is wrong.
Some things are proven facts. Full hardware virtualization being insecure is a fact. Multiple expert level security professionals have weighed in on this matter (including the lead dev of OpenBSD) and you can read all about it in the thread I linked to. The only reason you would even want to consider using full hardware virtualization is if you are using it to isolate applications from the external IP address, and even in this case it brings serious added risks because it makes it easier for someone to pwn the operating environment in your guest VM and spy on your plaintexts, even if they can not get your external IP address. Paravirtualization and OS virtualization are much safer ways to get isolation, and if you want to go full out you should be using physical layer isolation to isolate apps from tor and external IP address.
It would be nice to get a SOP on security, instead of 100 different versions.
Yes it would. I have written many things like this over the years, adding to my tutorials and adding techniques and fixing mistakes as I learn more. I think my skills and knowledge have increased by such a degree that it is time for a new set of tutorials. I will start work on a comprehensive SOP tutorial set soon, I also welcome haxxtheplanet to join by writing a tutorial for physical layer isolation if he wants. If not I will. But I also will write tutorials for OS virtualization and paravirtualization.
The slurry will continue, until those with knowledge jump down from the perch, and those without start paying attention.
That is pretty much what happened in the thread I linked to. Someone claimed that all virtualization is bad and dangerous and that led me to find out that paravirtualization and OS virtualization should be used over full hardware virtualization. I wasn't aware full hardware virtualization was so insecure before (although I really should have as it is obviously a massive increase to complexity. I guess I was thinking of guest machines as being actual machines, instead of being applications. Bad and wrong way to look at it!). After doing research I found that the poster was about 95% right about what he said, although I did come to a slightly different conclusion than he did (suggesting paravirtualization and OS virtualization over no isolation, although we both agree physical layer isolation is the ideal solution). Many security experts are quoted in the thread and we all reach more or less similar conclusions about many of the points discussed.
@kmfkewm: from reading your posts, it seems as though you are hacker elite, and nothing is safe. Maybe YOU should write out a standard operating procedure, and have affluent SR community, i.e, Mods & Staff approve, or disapprove, and THEN all of this shit can cease, and all of you geniuses can quit your picking on the newbs, and all the newbs can be safe SR travelers, and we can all be a happy fucking family of drug addicts, and gun nuts. JFCOAC!!
I think all the experts have presented the evidence and valid (if different) conclusions from the evidence are also presented. The only point left with some arguement around it is if no isolation is better than using OS or paravirtualization, we all agree physical isolation is best and we all agree that full hardware virtualization is best avoided. This is ten thousands time more true if you are using full hardware virtualization for any security related purpose other than isolation of apps from external IP address. Yes I will make a guide. Yes I am pretty good with computer security. I really shine at traffic analysis and server administration though, I am not an expert on virtualization (although I have talked with some about the issues, you should really read the thread that I linked to)
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I think this should definitely be STICKIED.
I am a semi new user to SR. I also have little experience in dealing with all of these safety precautions and whatnot. Even starting tor was a bitch and a half. But I am now running Tails from my USB flash drive.. I feel like a proffessional IT already setting this up lol. But in all seriousness.. this helped allot, specially for a new guy like me knowing not much.
Even though there may be better or more safer ways, I honestly have not a clue wtf you guys above are arguing about, its all IT Jargon to me, but this gave me a safe starting point.
Very grateful, thanks
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I think this should definitely be STICKIED.
I am a semi new user to SR. I also have little experience in dealing with all of these safety precautions and whatnot. Even starting tor was a bitch and a half. But I am now running Tails from my USB flash drive.. I feel like a proffessional IT already setting this up lol. But in all seriousness.. this helped allot, specially for a new guy like me knowing not much.
Even though there may be better or more safer ways, I honestly have not a clue wtf you guys above are arguing about, its all IT Jargon to me, but this gave me a safe starting point.
Very grateful, thanks
Might want to take a look at the guide I wrote up. Covers a few more aspects like BTC, tools, how to receive packages, etc.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=9067.0
</shameless plug>
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Read this thread to see why you should NOT be using full hardware virtualization systems like virtualbox
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=8524.0
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Hash: SHA1
There are hypervisors that allow leverage of the HVM (hardware virtualization) featureset but also provide added security with PVM drivers giving you a fairly decent mix of both so you aren't forfeiting all of the upside of HVM but also not as vulnerable to it's security downsides. I'm sure you are more than aware of this and this wasn't intended to inform you but others who might be reading.
Xen in particular does this very well. Well, well enough that very large companies use it on clusters of up to 32 physical hosts and several hundred TB of storage (about 500TB-550TB per cluster simply to give you an idea of the scale) and the one I am thinking of has 11 of these clusters deployed in datacenters across the country. They chose Xen with PVHVM guests for security reasons because of the customers (of theirs) that would be leasing or otherwise using them. These VM's safeguard a large quantity of very sensitive data (think hospitals and insurance companies and the hosting companies own financial records). I'm not saying virtualization is the most secure solution, what I'm saying is it is used in some very strict environments and if it's good enough for them and used properly it can add security where there otherwise might be a gap. If it's acceptable for these types of environments I think it's quite ok for anyone here. I'm specifically referring to a company who generates over $100 billion a year in revenue so these are no small players and while normally the primary purpose for virtualization is the ability to consolidate your servers on to less hardware, however that does not mean it can't be used in a secure or otherwise sensitive environment as some security professionals would have you believe. There are also others that believe while it does come with it's own risks they don't negate it as being a useful tool. It's certainly not a new concept and has been around since the late 60's early 70's.
VirtualBox was never intended to be secure, it was intended to be light and fast and simple to use. This combination of things does not lend itself to being highly secure in any application. Security really isn't about any one factor alone and people should take this into consideration. I'm not suggesting that you don't kmfkewm but it's a matter of a combination of layers and the 'whole stack' if you will that ultimately lead to a more secure system of any OS.
This being said you can take security as far as you want but at some point there is a point of diminishing returns where even though you may go to great lengths from a technical aspect but thats only one piece of the pie. Physical security and security through obscurity are still major factors in determining if a system is truly 'secure'.
You may disagree with me, but thats simply my .02btc
Thanks,
Looker
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This being said you can take security as far as you want but at some point there is a point of diminishing returns where even though you may go to great lengths from a technical aspect but thats only one piece of the pie. Physical security and security through obscurity are still major factors in determining if a system is truly 'secure'.
This is ultimately very good advice on how to retain one's mental health by not obsessing over opsec, but I do not think it holds water as an argument to forgo even a tiny bit of security.
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Tails doesn't have persistent entry guards..................................................
As long as you hide your usb flashdrive well, and remember to change your boot priority after using this setup, there is absolutely no trace of you being on a computer. Tails already has solid encryption, and you shouldn't have to save anything to your usb anyway to merely use Silk Road.
If your security requires that you physically hide things you can rest assured that your security is absolute fucking shit. Hiding flash drives is suggested as a security technique by (estimated) 0% of security experts.
Thanks for your input sir. While I do not agree with the manner in which you commented, there is a lot of truth in your statements. Persistent entry guards are important when wanting to be safe from elite hackers and such, but few people or organizations actually have the resources to commit such in-depth traffic analysis, etc. This setup that I proposed is merely to wipe any traces of your online activity from your machine and to provide good anonymity on the web.
However, upon some research, it seems that Liberte addresses many of the security issues of Tails and so I think I'll rewrite the guide to use Liberte instead. Liberte also has full encryption and a hidden container just like truecrypt so that solves that issue. It seems that Liberte is brand new and its creator is actively engaged in furthering its mission; talk on its forums indicate that he/she will be adding bitcoin support in the next release and furthering development of cables communication (which is absolutely fantastic).
Again this guide is to ACTUALLY help new users with a step-by-step process of how to use a secure setup, rather than preach of what they should be doing. There are pros and cons in every system and its up to the user to effectively do his/her research and decide which setup is best for them.
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Read this thread to see why you should NOT be using full hardware virtualization systems like virtualbox
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=8524.0
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Hash: SHA1
There are hypervisors that allow leverage of the HVM (hardware virtualization) featureset but also provide added security with PVM drivers giving you a fairly decent mix of both so you aren't forfeiting all of the upside of HVM but also not as vulnerable to it's security downsides. I'm sure you are more than aware of this and this wasn't intended to inform you but others who might be reading.
Xen in particular does this very well. Well, well enough that very large companies use it on clusters of up to 32 physical hosts and several hundred TB of storage (about 500TB-550TB per cluster simply to give you an idea of the scale) and the one I am thinking of has 11 of these clusters deployed in datacenters across the country. They chose Xen with PVHVM guests for security reasons because of the customers (of theirs) that would be leasing or otherwise using them. These VM's safeguard a large quantity of very sensitive data (think hospitals and insurance companies and the hosting companies own financial records). I'm not saying virtualization is the most secure solution, what I'm saying is it is used in some very strict environments and if it's good enough for them and used properly it can add security where there otherwise might be a gap. If it's acceptable for these types of environments I think it's quite ok for anyone here. I'm specifically referring to a company who generates over $100 billion a year in revenue so these are no small players and while normally the primary purpose for virtualization is the ability to consolidate your servers on to less hardware, however that does not mean it can't be used in a secure or otherwise sensitive environment as some security professionals would have you believe. There are also others that believe while it does come with it's own risks they don't negate it as being a useful tool. It's certainly not a new concept and has been around since the late 60's early 70's.
VirtualBox was never intended to be secure, it was intended to be light and fast and simple to use. This combination of things does not lend itself to being highly secure in any application. Security really isn't about any one factor alone and people should take this into consideration. I'm not suggesting that you don't kmfkewm but it's a matter of a combination of layers and the 'whole stack' if you will that ultimately lead to a more secure system of any OS.
This being said you can take security as far as you want but at some point there is a point of diminishing returns where even though you may go to great lengths from a technical aspect but thats only one piece of the pie. Physical security and security through obscurity are still major factors in determining if a system is truly 'secure'.
You may disagree with me, but thats simply my .02btc
Thanks,
Looker
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Xen is paravirtualization and I suggest using it over anything else other than physical layer isolation. Full hardware virtualization like Virtualbox is where the danger is. I agree that paravirtualization is secure enough, and that it is certainly better to isolate apps from external IP address with paravirtualization than not to isolate apps from external IP address at all. I also recognize that paravirtualization and OS virtualization are fairly common security techniques used by people who are very good at security. I knew virtualization could be used for isolation like this (and it should be if you are not using physical layer isolation), but I didn't realize that paravirtualization was the best choice or that full hardware virtualization caused a substantial hit to guest OS security before.
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furthering development of cables communication (which is absolutely fantastic).
Cables is actually the worst part about Liberte, hidden services are generally much easier to trace than clients are and cables requires you to run as a hidden service. Running as a hidden service is probably a worse hit to your anonymity than not using persistent entry guards. At least you don't need to use the cables system, so it still pwns Amnesia.
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@QTC
I wasn't suggesting forfeit security but take a more practical approach to it by suggesting that knowing what you are protecting against and knowing that you need only be a few steps (for lack of better terms) ahead of that which you are defending against in many cases is sufficiently secure.
@kmfkewm
Xen does HVM (Full hardware virt) PVM (Paravirt) and PVHVM (Paravirt on top of HVM acceleration) so it does all of the three types of modern virtualization. VirtualBox is not full hardware virtualization, it's paravirt with acceleration assistance from VT* much like PVHVM on Xen. Also it would be ill advised to use VirtualBox for any security related concerns in the context of virtualization in general it's a joke, a toy, not a real virtualization platform.
There are other reasons why PVHVM (Paravirtualization security that leverages the acceleration aspects of VT/HVM) is preferred other than security, most notably is performance although with 64 bit OS's and the newer Westemere chips this gap is closing at an alarming rate but there are also security concerns that as a professional in the industry (if thats in fact what you do) you should look into. The deployment I mentioned is one I architected and they are on nehalem and will not be moving to westemere due to some of the changes in VT functionality from nehalem to westmere until it has been evaluated by people in the security community.
Thanks,
Looker
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furthering development of cables communication (which is absolutely fantastic).
Cables is actually the worst part about Liberte, hidden services are generally much easier to trace than clients are and cables requires you to run as a hidden service. Running as a hidden service is probably a worse hit to your anonymity than not using persistent entry guards. At least you don't need to use the cables system, so it still pwns Amnesia.
In what way is a hidden service easier trace than a client...? Hidden services is what's keeping the physical location of the Silk Road servers a secret...
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In what way is a hidden service easier trace than a client...? Hidden services is what's keeping the physical location of the Silk Road servers a secret...
Parts of this paper are obsolete, especially with the development of persistent entry guard nodes, but it's still a good starting point: http://www.onion-router.net/Publications/locating-hidden-servers.pdf
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How about those of us who just read this and want to know what to do with their "tainted" computers? I've been running the tor browser through windows, and I've got GPG and all that installed. Should I dBAN my drive, reinstall windows and install my non sr-related programs?
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How about those of us who just read this and want to know what to do with their "tainted" computers? I've been running the tor browser through windows, and I've got GPG and all that installed. Should I dBAN my drive, reinstall windows and install my non sr-related programs?
Yes, you should do this right away.
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In what way is a hidden service easier trace than a client...? Hidden services is what's keeping the physical location of the Silk Road servers a secret...
Parts of this paper are obsolete, especially with the development of persistent entry guard nodes, but it's still a good starting point: http://www.onion-router.net/Publications/locating-hidden-servers.pdf
Persistent entry guards will only slightly slow most attackers down, hidden services should not be considered anonymous from any decent attacker. It boils down to this: any attacker can make a hidden service open as many circuits as they want it to. If the attacker has a few nodes on the Tor network, eventually the circuits they force the hidden service to open will be using nodes they own. Entry guards make it so if the hidden service hasn't selected attacker nodes to enter through, that the attacker can only trace it to its entry guards. Which is fine, other than the fact that after the hidden services entry guards are located the attacker can use a pen register / trap and trace order (or tons of other things, but for feds that will be the easiest route to take) to deanonymize the hidden service. Until Tor starts using multiple chained guard nodes for hidden services they shouldn't be considered anonymous for more than about a week or two after they are targeted by any competent attacker.
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How about those of us who just read this and want to know what to do with their "tainted" computers? I've been running the tor browser through windows, and I've got GPG and all that installed. Should I dBAN my drive, reinstall windows and install my non sr-related programs?
You should Secure Erase your drive, DBAN (and everything else) doesn't wipe magnetic residue on track edges so data fragments can still be forensically recovered even after 35 pass wipes
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How about those of us who just read this and want to know what to do with their "tainted" computers? I've been running the tor browser through windows, and I've got GPG and all that installed. Should I dBAN my drive, reinstall windows and install my non sr-related programs?
You should Secure Erase your drive, DBAN (and everything else) doesn't wipe magnetic residue on track edges so data fragments can still be forensically recovered even after 35 pass wipes
OK, so, I had this question, too. Basically, my comps compromised since, as most newb, I DL'd Tor through Windows? I also read an article where a guy blew his c omp with an EMP, then set it afire, and computer forensics still found what they were after. Is anyone truly safe?
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You should Secure Erase your drive, DBAN (and everything else) doesn't wipe magnetic residue on track edges so data fragments can still be forensically recovered even after 35 pass wipes
So you're saying that Secure Erase is a better way of cleaning up a compromised computer?
It'd be sweet if there was a tutorial on how to Secure Erase/ dBAN in order to reload windows and its "Non-SR related programs"
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p.s. If anyone has any ideas on where one might find such a guide, I'm all ears! (as you may have guess, I too have compromised my system)
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So you're saying that Secure Erase is a better way of cleaning up a compromised computer?
It'd be sweet if there was a tutorial on how to Secure Erase/ dBAN in order to reload windows and its "Non-SR related programs"
FWIW, I spoke to a data recovery engineer who often does outsourced work for local and state police departments, and their opinion was that a simple one-pass wipe would suffice. Additionally, they mentioned if destruction is what you're after, seemingly non-destructive things like taking the cover off an HDD and dealigning the platters by even a few microns or misaligning the head stack would cause serious harm to any recovery outlook.
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So you're saying that Secure Erase is a better way of cleaning up a compromised computer?
It'd be sweet if there was a tutorial on how to Secure Erase/ dBAN in order to reload windows and its "Non-SR related programs"
FWIW, I spoke to a data recovery engineer who often does outsourced work for local and state police departments, and their opinion was that a simple one-pass wipe would suffice. Additionally, they mentioned if destruction is what you're after, seemingly non-destructive things like taking the cover off an HDD and dealigning the platters by even a few microns or misaligning the head stack would cause serious harm to any recovery outlook.
For local and state police a one pass wipe probably will suffice, for FBI it probably will not.
I don't think that is true about dealigning the platters or misaligning the head stack though, I know for a fact that data has been recovered from platters even after they are shattered into bits and seriously physically damaged. Does your friend not know what spin stand microscopy is? There are even more sophisticated microscope techniques for recovering data from wiped / physically damaged drives, but that by itself is adequate to pull data from shattered platters. If you are not using Secure Erase, your erase probably wasn't secure ;). You might want to use DBAN on top of it just incase though ;).
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I have no doubt that you're right about the part about the feds. I will have to ask him about spin stack microscopy, but if this is a cutting edge forensics technique (I am not aware of this technique myself which gives me some material to catch up on this week) then I doubt he will know about it either. He isn't a forensic specialist, just the owner and lead engineer of a boutique hardware data recovery outfit that non-feds use often and I wouldn't bet on him knowing techniques past what you can do with ace/salvation/deepspar's tools.
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Hey guys, I'm having trouble with the Tails program.. I know how to import peoples keys and decrypt messages with the text editor.. but I have no idea how to create my own PGP key on there. Do i need to download another program in order to do that? or does tails come equipped with that.
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help!! i am stuck at this screen when trying to get to the liberte desktop http://dee.su/uploads/2011.1-boot-2.png . i made a password , i saw the hammer in the background , than it goes to this and dont know what to type.
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liberte linux is a good start, much more so than tails in my opinion, but until someone takes on the hassle of cooking a version that includes truecrypt, bitcoin by default, as well as additional crypto modules, if won't be ready for all SR operations. Its still a 100 miles ahead of whats most popular today - some dos in virtualbox.
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So you're saying that Secure Erase is a better way of cleaning up a compromised computer?
It'd be sweet if there was a tutorial on how to Secure Erase/ dBAN in order to reload windows and its "Non-SR related programs"
FWIW, I spoke to a data recovery engineer who often does outsourced work for local and state police departments, and their opinion was that a simple one-pass wipe would suffice. Additionally, they mentioned if destruction is what you're after, seemingly non-destructive things like taking the cover off an HDD and dealigning the platters by even a few microns or misaligning the head stack would cause serious harm to any recovery outlook.
For local and state police a one pass wipe probably will suffice, for FBI it probably will not.
I don't think that is true about dealigning the platters or misaligning the head stack though, I know for a fact that data has been recovered from platters even after they are shattered into bits and seriously physically damaged. Does your friend not know what spin stand microscopy is? There are even more sophisticated microscope techniques for recovering data from wiped / physically damaged drives, but that by itself is adequate to pull data from shattered platters. If you are not using Secure Erase, your erase probably wasn't secure ;). You might want to use DBAN on top of it just incase though ;).
There are lots of different packages out there but most 3 pass or 7 pass 5220.22-M spec cleaners are pretty sufficient for most people. Just make sure you 'delete' or uninstall anything that might be related and go through the folders to make sure it really de-installed everything and then run it. You'd really have to be on quite the list of 'bad guys' for them to take the time and resources to do something like attempt to piece together a broken platter or the sophisticated microscope techniques you are referring to. I'm not specifically familliar with them but I'd be curious in what circumstances this would be merited and at what LE level this would be considered 'commonplace'. I mean sure if you are shipping kilos of coke perhaps but how 'big of a player' do you have to be for them to spend that kind of time/energy in recovering your data?
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help!! i am stuck at this screen when trying to get to the liberte desktop http://dee.su/uploads/2011.1-boot-2.png . i made a password , i saw the hammer in the background , than it goes to this and dont know what to type.
Did you try pressing Ctrl+D...? For some reason you're in the shell, you must have pressed Alt+F2 or something.
For more help, go here and scroll down to the bottom under Troubleshooting: http://dee.su/liberte-documentation
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For those of you using windows to access the site , you might want to install malwarebytes and watch as tor.exe tries to make persistent calls outside through your firewall from within. Luckily this program stops it , actually you should download install and update ASAP if your on windows. Sunny :o
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So you're saying that Secure Erase is a better way of cleaning up a compromised computer?
It'd be sweet if there was a tutorial on how to Secure Erase/ dBAN in order to reload windows and its "Non-SR related programs"
FWIW, I spoke to a data recovery engineer who often does outsourced work for local and state police departments, and their opinion was that a simple one-pass wipe would suffice. Additionally, they mentioned if destruction is what you're after, seemingly non-destructive things like taking the cover off an HDD and dealigning the platters by even a few microns or misaligning the head stack would cause serious harm to any recovery outlook.
For local and state police a one pass wipe probably will suffice, for FBI it probably will not.
I don't think that is true about dealigning the platters or misaligning the head stack though, I know for a fact that data has been recovered from platters even after they are shattered into bits and seriously physically damaged. Does your friend not know what spin stand microscopy is? There are even more sophisticated microscope techniques for recovering data from wiped / physically damaged drives, but that by itself is adequate to pull data from shattered platters. If you are not using Secure Erase, your erase probably wasn't secure ;). You might want to use DBAN on top of it just incase though ;).
There are lots of different packages out there but most 3 pass or 7 pass 5220.22-M spec cleaners are pretty sufficient for most people. Just make sure you 'delete' or uninstall anything that might be related and go through the folders to make sure it really de-installed everything and then run it. You'd really have to be on quite the list of 'bad guys' for them to take the time and resources to do something like attempt to piece together a broken platter or the sophisticated microscope techniques you are referring to. I'm not specifically familliar with them but I'd be curious in what circumstances this would be merited and at what LE level this would be considered 'commonplace'. I mean sure if you are shipping kilos of coke perhaps but how 'big of a player' do you have to be for them to spend that kind of time/energy in recovering your data?
FBI recovered data from a DBAN wiped drive to pwn a really big carder before. Using secure erase is so easy that you might as well use it since it actually is secure. Also using programs that only wipe single files is almost never secure from forensic recovery. But may be secure from local and state LE.
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1. HOW DO I GET LINUX ON MY USB AFTER I FORMATTED MY USB AND DOWNLOADED LINUX?? ITS ON MY HARD DRIVE NOW, AND AFTER I PUT IT ON THE USB WILL IT BE OFF MY HARD DRIVE OR DO I HAVE TO DELETE IT??
2.WHEN I GET LIBERTE LINUX WORKING, HOW DO I CLEAN MY HARD DRIVE AND COMPUTER OF ALL TRACES OF SR USE BECAUSE I JUST BEEN USING PGP AND TOR FOR A WEEK OR TWO? (I HEARD A MAGNET OF SOMETIN IDK)
PLEASE HELP
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Using secure erase is so easy that you might as well use it since it actually is secure.
Yeah, this is the only opinion that matters at the end of the day. And it's so much faster than anything that doesn't use the ata command, I don't know why anybody wouldn't use it.
Somebody mentioned magnets, this is a bad idea because modern hard drives use heat-assisted magnetic recording (degaussing wouldn't be possible under normal conditions) and flash memory write caches (degaussing wouldn't do anything to a semiconductor).
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1. HOW DO I GET LINUX ON MY USB AFTER I FORMATTED MY USB AND DOWNLOADED LINUX?? ITS ON MY HARD DRIVE NOW, AND AFTER I PUT IT ON THE USB WILL IT BE OFF MY HARD DRIVE OR DO I HAVE TO DELETE IT??
2.WHEN I GET LIBERTE LINUX WORKING, HOW DO I CLEAN MY HARD DRIVE AND COMPUTER OF ALL TRACES OF SR USE BECAUSE I JUST BEEN USING PGP AND TOR FOR A WEEK OR TWO? (I HEARD A MAGNET OF SOMETIN IDK)
PLEASE HELP
You could always try http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
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using liberte was fine until yesterday, when midori just wouldn't go to SR or any .onion sites anymore. i don't know what happened
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Maybe someone should make a Silk Road-flavored linux distribution that runs off a flash drive, SRLinux.
..until it turns out that SRLinux was logging keystrokes or phoning home to the DEA or stealing bitcoin.
Or created by the DEA. Or by someone being paid by the DEA.
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This is a great thread and I would love to see updates from the OP. OK, so my security might not be as tight as the rest of you, but I'm not a computer expert and even I can do this. I like the idea of having the entire OS on a USB stick that I can simply remove and deposit anywhere I want - outside, inside, it doesnt matter. No traces on my main PC then either which works for me.
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So to wipe a computer should I be using Secure Erase from secureerase.org or the one here http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/hughes/SecureErase.html ? Any special instructions?
As for Liberte, should I be using the ZIP or the ISO?
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using liberte was fine until yesterday, when midori just wouldn't go to SR or any .onion sites anymore. i don't know what happened
quoting this in case someone missed it
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using liberte was fine until yesterday, when midori just wouldn't go to SR or any .onion sites anymore. i don't know what happened
quoting this in case someone missed it
Try re-installing (i.e. all the steps) to your USB. If the problem persists then we'll see what to do from there.
And everyone should be using the .zip, not the .iso
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FBI recovered data from a DBAN wiped drive to pwn a really big carder before. Using secure erase is so easy that you might as well use it since it actually is secure. Also using programs that only wipe single files is almost never secure from forensic recovery. But may be secure from local and state LE.
I'm just saying that I don't see what secure erase offers that several other programs that are compliant with the 5220.22-M standard don't, there are literally dozens of them out there so I would think any 3 pass or even 7 pass (required for SI/TK/GG data destruction caveats) would be sufficient in most cases. But if you've attracted enough heat that the FBI is looking to take you down you have a much larger set of problems than what may have been on your hard drive.
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I think I'll check out SecureErase and possibly add it as a final step.
Thanks for the continued feedback guys!
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Tails is fine if you use it in bridge mode.
Same with all other live CDs
I wouldn't put Liberte Linux on a USB drive. It leaves history on that drive why not burn to CD then zero history ever.
Once again boot it in bridge mode. Or make your own tor bridge with a spare computer lying around and connect to it... now you have plausible deniability why you are using Tor all the time because you're a democracy enthusiast and decided to offer it to activists around the world. Or rent a tor bridge using the image from Tor themselves, or make your own with a cheap VPS
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Forgot
http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/hughes/SecureErase.html
I believe only works on IDE and SSD drives, not SCSI
You probably have to unplug the power connector to your hard drive, boot it (bios still recognizes it through IDE cable connection) then reattach power connecter once booted. Now can safely wipe the drive
Reason is sometimes BIOS/HD hardware locks out during boot and can't run secure erase on it.
Also secure erase is the only proven lab method to destroy all data without using Thermite or something. When you use other wiping tools it doesn't get rid of bad blocks which are still full of data, or manufacturer protected areas.
.... and I wouldn't use SSD either. so dangerous and nearly impossible to delete anything off them. Also read the problems using Truecrypt on a solid state drive
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Run into a problem, i get it installing alright but after the LUKS password , it asks for a password for /dev/loop1 BUT it will not accept any combination , it just keeps saying some error passphrase not accepted or similar? Any suggestions ? tnx
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Noob question here, but is the most agreed upon method the linux liberte on usb drive?
never used linux before so go easy, but would i need to download tor and a pgp program?
Then SecureErase my current compromised HDD?
Thanks for the help
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Run into a problem, i get it installing alright but after the LUKS password , it asks for a password for /dev/loop1 BUT it will not accept any combination , it just keeps saying some error passphrase not accepted or similar? Any suggestions ? tnx
if i'm not misunderstanding you, it's asking you to enter the passphrase you established when you created the LUKS password. so the same exact thing.
if you can't get the same thing you typed for the passphrase, you might have mistyped at some point and should probably just format your usb stick, reinstall and create another
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Noob question here, but is the most agreed upon method the linux liberte on usb drive?
never used linux before so go easy, but would i need to download tor and a pgp program?
Then SecureErase my current compromised HDD?
Thanks for the help
Liberte comes pre-loaded with tor and a pgp program. As long as you use Midori all of your connections are tor-ified. Linux seems to be fairly intuitive so you'll have no problems.
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thanks kind sir, i hope to have this up and running tonight
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PLEASE SOMEONE HELP. I need to figure this out very soon.
I've been reading this tutorial by v01d, which is very good, but I can't quite seem to figure out how to install Liberte on a Mac. I'm kind of a beginner to this sort of stuff, and here is what I do not understand:
Linux: Copy liberte/setup.sh to a local directory, and run sh setup.sh /dev/XXX as root — providing the unmounted media to which you extracted the archive as the argument. For ext[234] filesystems, copying and unmounting is unnecessary — just run the script directly.
I tried copying and pasting in Terminal, but I don't know if I'm supposed to change "/dev/XXX" to something else. Can anyone clear this up? It would be GREATLY appreciated!
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fdisk -l
to determine the right disk
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FBI recovered data from a DBAN wiped drive to pwn a really big carder before. Using secure erase is so easy that you might as well use it since it actually is secure. Also using programs that only wipe single files is almost never secure from forensic recovery. But may be secure from local and state LE.
I'm just saying that I don't see what secure erase offers that several other programs that are compliant with the 5220.22-M standard don't, there are literally dozens of them out there so I would think any 3 pass or even 7 pass (required for SI/TK/GG data destruction caveats) would be sufficient in most cases. But if you've attracted enough heat that the FBI is looking to take you down you have a much larger set of problems than what may have been on your hard drive.
Secure Erase is firmware that allows the hard drive arm to offset itself by a few degrees to wipe magnetic residue from the edge of the track. Other erase programs can not do this because they lack this firmware component, so they can not off-set the arm and don't properly erase magnetic residue from the edge of the track. Of course they will erase some, but large data fragments can still be recovered even after 35 pass wipes.
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Thanks for the info binary, could you please provide a link where to get the proper secure erase program with this firmware. I want to be absolutely sure it's the correct program. Thanks mucho
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help!! i am stuck at this screen when trying to get to the liberte desktop http://dee.su/uploads/2011.1-boot-2.png . i made a password , i saw the hammer in the background , than it goes to this and dont know what to type.
I'm getting the exact problem, the troubleshooting didn't work... If I press Ctrl + D it takes me back to the same screen. I also reformated, took off my kaspersky and reinstalled liberte. same problem
Please help :o
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help!! i am stuck at this screen when trying to get to the liberte desktop http://dee.su/uploads/2011.1-boot-2.png . i made a password , i saw the hammer in the background , than it goes to this and dont know what to type.
I'm getting the exact problem, the troubleshooting didn't work... If I press Ctrl + D it takes me back to the same screen. I also reformated, took off my kaspersky and reinstalled liberte. same problem
Please help :o
Have you tried booting up without KMS?
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kms=kapersky?
how would i do that in linux? first timer here
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I am interested in staying safe just in case if the feds stop by, but after reading all of this I doubt that their is any safe way to use SR on your computer.
If any of you are like me and using a laptop to access SR, I would suggest keeping it in a safe spot (idk your car or something) and buying a new laptop to keep in your home. That is what i'm doing once I save enough money up, but until then I have my fingers crossed. :P
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kms=kapersky?
how would i do that in linux? first timer here
The OS on the USB is running off of RAM. Nothing on your harddrive matters.
It is more than likely a graphic or flashdrive problem. Try to load it without KMS, which is the option right below default. If that doesnt work, try a different flashdrive.
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I will start work on a comprehensive SOP tutorial set soon, I also welcome haxxtheplanet to join by writing a tutorial for physical layer isolation if he wants. If not I will. But I also will write tutorials for OS virtualization and paravirtualization.
And lo, did the people then rejoice.
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k thanks vo1d, i format it with fat32 is that correct? and default file size (4096)
ill try without kms option
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k thanks vo1d, i format it with fat32 is that correct? and default file size (4096)
ill try without kms option
Yup. If not, it may be the flashdrive.
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well i could go get an easier drive at store this week but wondering why current drive would do everything right until now.
man if only greenhead were to return!
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Hasn't Tails replaced Liberte?
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still having trubs
getting stuck at same screen... it's booting me out there and when I Ctrl D to login it fails and takes me back to same screen greenhead had a ss of.
I guess I'll try a new stick but why would this stick work all the way until this point?
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bump- anyone, greenhead especially had same problem, have a solution for me.
its on a win 7 64bit machine
I tried on win xp netbook same problem... doing something wrong. but followed to guide to a T and the brief docs available out there to help. still stick :( any liberte experts know whats going on please help
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Okay, going to SR was fine earlier. Then I closed the tab (Midori). Now when I go to the site again, it gives me
Forwarding failure
Privoxy was unable to socks5-forward your request http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/ through (not sure if this part should be censored) SOCKS5 host unreachable
Just try again to see if this is a temporary problem, or check your forwarding settings and make sure that all forwarding servers are working correctly and listening where they are supposed to be listening.
When I refresh, it does the same thing, immediately. Is it a problem with SR or a problem on my end? The site was working just fine before.
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...going to SR was fine earlier. Then I closed the tab (Midori). Now when I go to the site again, it gives me Forwarding failure...When I refresh, it does the same thing, immediately. Is it a problem with SR or a problem on my end?...
Do any other .onion sites work using Midori? If so, then either SR is having a problem or Tor is having a problem getting you connected to it.
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...going to SR was fine earlier. Then I closed the tab (Midori). Now when I go to the site again, it gives me Forwarding failure...When I refresh, it does the same thing, immediately. Is it a problem with SR or a problem on my end?...
Do any other .onion sites work using Midori? If so, then either SR is having a problem or Tor is having a problem getting you connected to it.
Yeah, this site's just fine, Tormail's peachy too. Just SR isn't working for me. Argh.
edit: now it's working for me fine. I wish I could figure out why I keep getting these "outages". If it's something on SR's end I'll at least feel a little less dumb.
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its on a win 7 64bit machine
I tried on win xp netbook same problem... doing something wrong. but followed to guide to a T and the brief docs available out there to help. still stick :( any liberte experts know whats going on please help
It could be the machine, it might not support liberte or something similar to that. The other day I took my usb stick (which boots fine on my laptop) over to a friend's house but it got stuck right after I put in the password. I looked into the issue further and it turns out someone already posted about the problem. Go to the official Liberte forum "http://forum.dee.su" to see if its any help.
And for those wondering about the Privoxy SOCKS5 forwarding issue about SR... I think it's a server side issue. I get the same problem when I sometimes try and access Silk Road on Windows through Tor Browser Bundle. Try switching identities a couple times and reloading the web page.
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Ok, I know I should not enable flash or reveal any personal information while using the TOR browser (I'm on a mac and the browser is called Aurora).
BUT, here are my questions
1. Can I go ahead and open up my usual browser (in this case Safari) and browse the web as normal if SR is slow? So in other words, if I had Safari open I might be entering personal information and running flash and just browsing as normal.
Is there any type of bleed over? I don't know if I am explaining this right but part of me thinks that as long as I make sure that the TOR browser information is closely guarded that it shouldn't matter if I have a seperate browser open and browsing as normal. But another part of me thinks that I better ask someone with some actual knowledge.
Thanks for any responses.
klaaat21
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BTW, I'm on a mac and I created an Encrypted Disk image and placed any files that deal with SR on that encrypted image. For example, the TOR browser is inside the encrypted folder and even my GPG Keychain access. It occurted to me that even with the SR stuff hidden away that the gpg keychain could be access pretty easily and I had a bunch of SR members keys stored there with of course their usernames. Might as well put the keychain in the encrypted folder.
If you want to make an encrypted folder (that mounts like an external drive) it is done through disk utility. Make sure that you choose the encryption option and do NOT save the encryption password to your keychain. Save it in your head
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And for those wondering about the Privoxy SOCKS5 forwarding issue about SR... I think it's a server side issue. I get the same problem when I sometimes try and access Silk Road on Windows through Tor Browser Bundle. Try switching identities a couple times and reloading the web page.
This works. Thank you very much.
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Quite well known story for IT security ppl, but if you want an idea of how far the FBI etc will go to nail someone then read this article:
http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2011/03/features/the-card-master?page=all
Interestingly I originally found the US version of it online, and it omits the detail on the last couple of pages about how they circumvented his local system security by dumping the RAM contents.
Of course bear in mind that most law enforcement agencies do have financial constraints, so your actual risk is proportional to your estimated criminal turnover. I'm not saying dont bother to make an effort to be secure, but if you are a small time buyer don't be put off if you can't tick every box the experts suggest. For anyone looking to write a definitive guide I'd like to see it split into sections - e.g. the essentials everyone should do for basic protection, and then advanced techniques to be applied as your risk level increases. For IT novices there are some more advanced things that if done wrongly can actually make security worse (not a great example but tracking DCNs through Tor for a start)
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once i've got this thing up and running, what should i do about the tor browser bundle and gpg installed on my computer? just uninstall them? not really down for a total dban wipe and reinstall...
thanks
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HI,im trying to install liberte on my flash drive,problem im having is when i go to run i get the command box and inside i get the message that i need to put liberte in the root of the drive i want to flash it from ?????? could some kind soul explain where im going wrong please ? i got the usb formatted and unzipped linux file to it but keep getting the above message
help me please i need to get on sr :)
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just curious, I have an Asus Transformer tablet/netbook with USB ports. I am wondering if this method will work with my device? I am not aware of a way to change to boot order, but maybe someone more tech savvy can tell me how to do it? The Transofrmer is running Gingerbread and is not rooted.
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HI,im trying to install liberte on my flash drive,problem im having is when i go to run i get the command box and inside i get the message that i need to put liberte in the root of the drive i want to flash it from ?????? could some kind soul explain where im going wrong please ? i got the usb formatted and unzipped linux file to it but keep getting the above message
help me please i need to get on sr :)
1. I assume you got the zipped version of liberte and unzipped it?
2. Is it at the top level directory of the flash drive? e.g. E:\<libertefolderhere>
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This seems like a great precaution to take. Provided that thus far I have been using tor on a normal OS installation, if I were to simply reformat my hard drive and start doing this linux on a USB stick method, would there still be any trace on my computer of my activities before I reformatted the hard drive?
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This seems like a great precaution to take. Provided that thus far I have been using tor on a normal OS installation, if I were to simply reformat my hard drive and start doing this linux on a USB stick method, would there still be any trace on my computer of my activities before I reformatted the hard drive?
As long as you don't become the neighborhood kingpin, just reformatting the hard drive should suffice. If you're paranoid like the rest of us I would recommend reformatting that laptop and selling it on craigslist and getting yourself a new one (on which you would never use Tor of course).
About this setup, however, the developer of liberte hasn't come out with any new versions recently and so it's a little slow... not to mention an old version of Tor. I'm going to look into an alternative setup (perhaps as simple as Ubuntu + TBB?) to post until he/she comes out with an update.
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HI,im trying to install liberte on my flash drive,problem im having is when i go to run i get the command box and inside i get the message that i need to put liberte in the root of the drive i want to flash it from ?????? could some kind soul explain where im going wrong please ? i got the usb formatted and unzipped linux file to it but keep getting the above message
help me please i need to get on sr :)
1. I assume you got the zipped version of liberte and unzipped it?
2. Is it at the top level directory of the flash drive? e.g. E:\<libertefolderhere>
hi
i have the zipped version unpacked to e drive,the folder is there although once opened i have a ms dos batch file file but no set up bat file ??
in the command box im getting the following
syslinux setup requires admin priv for raw disk access
if you see a message about MBR update failure below please right click on script and select "run as administrator"
installing syslinux on e optionally with bootloader
hiding e/liberte and e/otfe directories
press any key to continue_
does the above mean im good to go ? i tried to change bios settings in win xp sp2 so that i can boot from usb but i cant find that option,,do i need a bios update to be able to boot from usb in win xp ?
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hi
i have the zipped version unpacked to e drive,the folder is there although once opened i have a ms dos batch file file but no set up bat file ??
in the command box im getting the following
syslinux setup requires admin priv for raw disk access
if you see a message about MBR update failure below please right click on script and select "run as administrator"
installing syslinux on e optionally with bootloader
hiding e/liberte and e/otfe directories
press any key to continue_
does the above mean im good to go ? i tried to change bios settings in win xp sp2 so that i can boot from usb but i cant find that option,,do i need a bios update to be able to boot from usb in win xp ?
Aha, easy fix. The 'setup' file *is* the setup.bat file. Looks like you've already run it.
Just to be sure, right click to open the context menu on the setup file, and select run as administrator. Then reboot etc and hold down F12 so you enter the boot menu, then select the first option for liberte and away you go.
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hi
i have the zipped version unpacked to e drive,the folder is there although once opened i have a ms dos batch file file but no set up bat file ??
in the command box im getting the following
syslinux setup requires admin priv for raw disk access
if you see a message about MBR update failure below please right click on script and select "run as administrator"
installing syslinux on e optionally with bootloader
hiding e/liberte and e/otfe directories
press any key to continue_
does the above mean im good to go ? i tried to change bios settings in win xp sp2 so that i can boot from usb but i cant find that option,,do i need a bios update to be able to boot from usb in win xp ?
Aha, easy fix. The 'setup' file *is* the setup.bat file. Looks like you've already run it.
Just to be sure, right click to open the context menu on the setup file, and select run as administrator. Then reboot etc and hold down F12 so you enter the boot menu, then select the first option for liberte and away you go.
ok i got the lappy to boot from fdd,
i then get the following
intializing blah blah blah
then
media test failure-check cables
lappy then shuts down and boots up from hdd
ive followed the guide step by step but for some reason i keep getting the error msg
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ok i got the lappy to boot from fdd,
i then get the following
intializing blah blah blah
then
media test failure-check cables
lappy then shuts down and boots up from hdd
ive followed the guide step by step but for some reason i keep getting the error msg
What USB version is your flash drive? And did you format the flash drive to FAT32 before putting liberte on it?
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ok i got the lappy to boot from fdd,
i then get the following
intializing blah blah blah
then
media test failure-check cables
lappy then shuts down and boots up from hdd
ive followed the guide step by step but for some reason i keep getting the error msg
What USB version is your flash drive? And did you format the flash drive to FAT32 before putting liberte on it?
its a sandisk usb 2.0 compliant
and yes i did format to fat32 before i put liberte on it
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ok i got the lappy to boot from fdd,
i then get the following
intializing blah blah blah
then
media test failure-check cables
lappy then shuts down and boots up from hdd
ive followed the guide step by step but for some reason i keep getting the error msg
What USB version is your flash drive? And did you format the flash drive to FAT32 before putting liberte on it?
its a sandisk usb 2.0 compliant
and yes i did format to fat32 before i put liberte on it
??? Weird.
To narrow down the search, try:
- everything as before on a different computer
- borrow a different flash drive
at least then we'll be able to isolate where the problem is occurring.
Also check the desu site, they have forums I think, so search their forums with your error msg to see if anything comes up.
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This seems like a great precaution to take. Provided that thus far I have been using tor on a normal OS installation, if I were to simply reformat my hard drive and start doing this linux on a USB stick method, would there still be any trace on my computer of my activities before I reformatted the hard drive?
As long as you don't become the neighborhood kingpin, just reformatting the hard drive should suffice. If you're paranoid like the rest of us I would recommend reformatting that laptop and selling it on craigslist and getting yourself a new one (on which you would never use Tor of course).
About this setup, however, the developer of liberte hasn't come out with any new versions recently and so it's a little slow... not to mention an old version of Tor. I'm going to look into an alternative setup (perhaps as simple as Ubuntu + TBB?) to post until he/she comes out with an update.
I've been wondering this too- could you rather just securely erase all sensitive info then securely erase the empty space (i'm referring to macs particularly but also in general. Use the disk utility to wipe empty space with a 35 pass wipe? or do you actually need to wipe the whole thing even though the rest of the storage on the drive is being used by other data.
Cheers, awesome info btw.
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This seems like a great precaution to take. Provided that thus far I have been using tor on a normal OS installation, if I were to simply reformat my hard drive and start doing this linux on a USB stick method, would there still be any trace on my computer of my activities before I reformatted the hard drive?
As long as you don't become the neighborhood kingpin, just reformatting the hard drive should suffice. If you're paranoid like the rest of us I would recommend reformatting that laptop and selling it on craigslist and getting yourself a new one (on which you would never use Tor of course).
About this setup, however, the developer of liberte hasn't come out with any new versions recently and so it's a little slow... not to mention an old version of Tor. I'm going to look into an alternative setup (perhaps as simple as Ubuntu + TBB?) to post until he/she comes out with an update.
I've been wondering this too- could you rather just securely erase all sensitive info then securely erase the empty space (i'm referring to macs particularly but also in general. Use the disk utility to wipe empty space with a 35 pass wipe? or do you actually need to wipe the whole thing even though the rest of the storage on the drive is being used by other data.
Cheers, awesome info btw.
In theory just watching a week worth of high definition blue ray movies should wipe your HD.
In practice, it depends on how much the G-men want you, because little sections of your HD regularly fail and get overlooked in the future since they are not part of the memory that can be allocated by the OS anymore. So, computer forensics can look at those bad bits of the disk and work out what was originally there. More obviously, magnetic media has a kind of residual memory, where it can be worked out that although there was 1 there now, there used to be a 0.
As Keats says, it really depends on how much 'they' want you. Ultimately the best HD wipe is physical destruction.
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ok i got the lappy to boot from fdd,
i then get the following
intializing blah blah blah
then
media test failure-check cables
lappy then shuts down and boots up from hdd
ive followed the guide step by step but for some reason i keep getting the error msg
What USB version is your flash drive? And did you format the flash drive to FAT32 before putting liberte on it?
its a sandisk usb 2.0 compliant
and yes i did format to fat32 before i put liberte on it
??? Weird.
To narrow down the search, try:
- everything as before on a different computer
- borrow a different flash drive
at least then we'll be able to isolate where the problem is occurring.
Also check the desu site, they have forums I think, so search their forums with your error msg to see if anything comes up.
sounds easy but i dont have access to another lappy/pc
the flash drive is brand new so i doubt the problem is there,,the lappy has recently been restored using product recovery software,,not sure if i may have something missing,,,drivers etc
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This seems like a great precaution to take. Provided that thus far I have been using tor on a normal OS installation, if I were to simply reformat my hard drive and start doing this linux on a USB stick method, would there still be any trace on my computer of my activities before I reformatted the hard drive?
As long as you don't become the neighborhood kingpin, just reformatting the hard drive should suffice. If you're paranoid like the rest of us I would recommend reformatting that laptop and selling it on craigslist and getting yourself a new one (on which you would never use Tor of course).
About this setup, however, the developer of liberte hasn't come out with any new versions recently and so it's a little slow... not to mention an old version of Tor. I'm going to look into an alternative setup (perhaps as simple as Ubuntu + TBB?) to post until he/she comes out with an update.
I've been wondering this too- could you rather just securely erase all sensitive info then securely erase the empty space (i'm referring to macs particularly but also in general. Use the disk utility to wipe empty space with a 35 pass wipe? or do you actually need to wipe the whole thing even though the rest of the storage on the drive is being used by other data.
Cheers, awesome info btw.
In theory just watching a week worth of high definition blue ray movies should wipe your HD.
In practice, it depends on how much the G-men want you, because little sections of your HD regularly fail and get overlooked in the future since they are not part of the memory that can be allocated by the OS anymore. So, computer forensics can look at those bad bits of the disk and work out what was originally there. More obviously, magnetic media has a kind of residual memory, where it can be worked out that although there was 1 there now, there used to be a 0.
As Keats says, it really depends on how much 'they' want you. Ultimately the best HD wipe is physical destruction.
gotcha, well hell if your gonna do it you might as well go all the way right? Maybe DBAN as opposed to taking a sledgehammer to it.. but i'm certainly no kingpin.
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just curious, I have an Asus Transformer tablet/netbook with USB ports. I am wondering if this method will work with my device? I am not aware of a way to change to boot order, but maybe someone more tech savvy can tell me how to do it? The Transofrmer is running Gingerbread and is not rooted.
No, Liberte doesn't support ARM processors like the ones in most mobile platforms. Only x86_x64, and there is no way to change the boot order on a tablet...
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how do you set up wifi in liberte, or is the thinking that it is too insecure? conversely is there not an element of plausible deniability with wifi being hacked?
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*Note: If you want to use the operating system installed on your hard drive without having to change the BIOS boot priority every time, go to the option "Load from Hard Disk 2" at the Liberte boot screen and press ENTER.
Could someone clear this up for me?
This quote is confusing. Is he talking about wanting to use your normal operating system after liberte has been setup? If so, then
1) If you have already set up Liberte, BUT do not currently have the usb plugged in, then how does the liberte boot screen pop up without the usb plugged in? Or is this quote JUST talking about booting the normal hard drive WHILE the usb is plugged in?
2) If the usb is in boot position #1, and your normal hard drive is in boot position #2, then wouldn't your computer just automatically try to boot from the USB by default; and if the USB is not plugged in, then automatically boot from your normal hard drive without any input from the user?
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sounds easy but i dont have access to another lappy/pc
the flash drive is brand new so i doubt the problem is there,,the lappy has recently been restored using product recovery software,,not sure if i may have something missing,,,drivers etc
Yeah, it sucks not to be able to troubleshoot with spare bits and pieces.
Try reinstalling your OS (i.e. soft install over the top, without wiping your files), it should only take a couple of hours, and then you'll be able to tick one more box on your troubleshooting list. I've often had problems in windows solved by fresh installs.
@markwest, Liberte is setup for wifi from the outset, you shouldn't have any problems with that. Security wise, it depends on how you're using Liberte I guess. If you are afraid of packet snooping neighbors, then use Ethernet, but if you want doubleplusgood security, you should be using Liberte at public wifi, hacked wifi, otherwise anonymous wifi. At that point, it is next to impossible to convict you in the court of law, even if a lot of our assumptions fall down flat e.g. Bitcoin, TOR aren't compromised somehow. Highly highly unlikely, but it's nice to be physically certain of these things.
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how do you set up wifi in liberte, or is the thinking that it is too insecure? conversely is there not an element of plausible deniability with wifi being hacked?
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how do you set up wifi in liberte, or is the thinking that it is too insecure? conversely is there not an element of plausible deniability with wifi being hacked?
Well, if I were on the jury, I sure as hell wouldn't buy it.
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im trying to connect to my home network and (obviously it isnt all plug and play niceness like w7) i cant seem to find any wifi networks, or places to enter passwords ect
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This seems like a great precaution to take. Provided that thus far I have been using tor on a normal OS installation, if I were to simply reformat my hard drive and start doing this linux on a USB stick method, would there still be any trace on my computer of my activities before I reformatted the hard drive?
As long as you don't become the neighborhood kingpin, just reformatting the hard drive should suffice. If you're paranoid like the rest of us I would recommend reformatting that laptop and selling it on craigslist and getting yourself a new one (on which you would never use Tor of course).
About this setup, however, the developer of liberte hasn't come out with any new versions recently and so it's a little slow... not to mention an old version of Tor. I'm going to look into an alternative setup (perhaps as simple as Ubuntu + TBB?) to post until he/she comes out with an update.
I've been wondering this too- could you rather just securely erase all sensitive info then securely erase the empty space (i'm referring to macs particularly but also in general. Use the disk utility to wipe empty space with a 35 pass wipe? or do you actually need to wipe the whole thing even though the rest of the storage on the drive is being used by other data.
Cheers, awesome info btw.
Why not just replace the hard drive?
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How about just buying and installing a new hard drive?
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I did everything to set up my USB flash drive as you described. I understand that using this drive to boot up my computer will keep me anonymous right? I was wondering if you are able to keep a wallet on a flash drive (or access it through the flash drive) and if so, How would you do it. Sorry I am kind of new at this and want to be totally anonymous since at first I was just using my computer with out taking any precautions. Thanks
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This seems like a great precaution to take. Provided that thus far I have been using tor on a normal OS installation, if I were to simply reformat my hard drive and start doing this linux on a USB stick method, would there still be any trace on my computer of my activities before I reformatted the hard drive?
As long as you don't become the neighborhood kingpin, just reformatting the hard drive should suffice. If you're paranoid like the rest of us I would recommend reformatting that laptop and selling it on craigslist and getting yourself a new one (on which you would never use Tor of course).
About this setup, however, the developer of liberte hasn't come out with any new versions recently and so it's a little slow... not to mention an old version of Tor. I'm going to look into an alternative setup (perhaps as simple as Ubuntu + TBB?) to post until he/she comes out with an update.
I've been wondering this too- could you rather just securely erase all sensitive info then securely erase the empty space (i'm referring to macs particularly but also in general. Use the disk utility to wipe empty space with a 35 pass wipe? or do you actually need to wipe the whole thing even though the rest of the storage on the drive is being used by other data.
Cheers, awesome info btw.
Why not just replace the hard drive?
as to not have to start from scratch- reinstalling, transfering, etc... seems like a plausible move to just erase the space that isn't being used, am i wrong?
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im trying to connect to my home network and (obviously it isnt all plug and play niceness like w7) i cant seem to find any wifi networks, or places to enter passwords ect
I'm wondering the same thing, how do we connect to our home internet? (I'm sure this is a dumb question but I can't figure it out) Everything else worked flawlessly, I just can't figure out how to connect.
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how do you set up wifi in liberte, or is the thinking that it is too insecure? conversely is there not an element of plausible deniability with wifi being hacked?
Well, if I were on the jury, I sure as hell wouldn't buy it.
///finally engages Pine directly///
Well, Pine, that's because you are reasonably intelligent and know about ... Things. Most people don't. Just get a bunch of those on a jury and the jury will HANG an SR user.... Think about it. All the Fear-Mongering angles that could be played?
We all need to just face the fact that if They want to take any of us down, They will... But...that is SO unlikely and... doublebut... And here comes this...
SHOOT, COWARD!! YOU ARE ONLY GOING TO KILL A MAN!!
//End obligatory-bi-monthly-required Che quote//
///end First Contact with Pine///
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how do you set up wifi in liberte, or is the thinking that it is too insecure? conversely is there not an element of plausible deniability with wifi being hacked?
Well, if I were on the jury, I sure as hell wouldn't buy it.
///finally engages Pine directly///
Well, Pine, that's because you are reasonably intelligent and know about ... Things. Most people don't. Just get a bunch of those on a jury and the jury will HANG an SR user.... Think about it. All the Fear-Mongering angles that could be played?
We all need to just face the fact that if They want to take any of us down, They will... But...that is SO unlikely and... doublebut... And here comes this...
SHOOT, COWARD!! YOU ARE ONLY GOING TO KILL A MAN!!
//End obligatory-bi-monthly-required Che quote//
///end First Contact with Pine///
*Pine makes slurping sounds with milkshake and appears politely confused* :D
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Formatted my flashdrive, downloaded Liberte and extracted to flashdrive, ran setup.bat as administrator, yet can't get it to boot for some reason. When I try to boot from the flashdrive, it says "Selected boot device not available." Tried it on another computer and it boots fine and loads up Liberte, but I'd like to be able to use it on this computer as well.... what's wrong?
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Also having some difficulties, any help is appreciated!
So far, Formatted my flashdrive, downloaded Liberte and extracted to flashdrive, ran setup.bat as administrator, rebooted, pressed F2 for setup screen..
Had to "enable" the External Device, then I scrolled External device to the top, pressed F10, and it brought me to another screen,
Selected the first Linux liberte option of three, and I thought it was booting, Said "Loading modules" then a few more lines, then it said "Waiting for media..." and the light on the flash drive was blinking, and I just sat there for 20 minutes thinking that it was working but I don't think it was doing anything.
Any ideas?
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*Pine makes slurping sounds with milkshake and appears politely confused* :D
BULL! You comprendo, Pine! .... you comprendo :::narrows eyes:::
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Hey guys, just updated the thread. Tell me what ya'll think of the new pastebin format. Also please feel free to post any tips & tricks. I'll be making a compendium of them shortly.
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Hey guys, just updated the thread. Tell me what ya'll think of the new pastebin format. Also please feel free to post any tips & tricks. I'll be making a compendium of them shortly.
+1 for showing how to remove Communism.
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+1 for showing how to remove Communism.
AHAHAHAHAHAHA glad I could be of assistance ;P
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I got stuck at the "Waiting for the Media..." on two USB drives for my computer :( gave up
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I got stuck at the "Waiting for the Media..." on two USB drives for my computer :( gave up
[/quote
check:
- you are using USB 2.0 (N.B. People, that's the USB port on the machine *and* your USB device). I have never got Liberte to work with USB 1.0
- did you format the USB drive?
- did you try different USB ports? Sometimes the front ones get flaky after frequent use, working for some stuff and not others).
- did you get the Liberte zip package? Did you unzip it? Did you run the setup.bat script as administrator? (file is called 'setup')
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I got stuck at the "Waiting for the Media..." on two USB drives for my computer :( gave up
[/quote
check:
- you are using USB 2.0 (N.B. People, that's the USB port on the machine *and* your USB device). I have never got Liberte to work with USB 1.0
- did you format the USB drive?
- did you try different USB ports? Sometimes the front ones get flaky after frequent use, working for some stuff and not others).
- did you get the Liberte zip package? Did you unzip it? Did you run the setup.bat script as administrator? (file is called 'setup')
Both USB sticks on USB 2.0
I formatted them both FAT32 AND Fat with default allocated size, unticked quick format.
I tried 2 different USB ports for each of them, my computer is fairly new (Asus Gene-Z built last december)
I downloaded the zip package, unzipped the files onto the root and right clicked setup.bat and ran as administrator; it hid the folders and I rebooted the system to boot from the USB stick via bios. Nada
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I got stuck at the "Waiting for the Media..." on two USB drives for my computer :( gave up
[/quote
check:
- you are using USB 2.0 (N.B. People, that's the USB port on the machine *and* your USB device). I have never got Liberte to work with USB 1.0
- did you format the USB drive?
- did you try different USB ports? Sometimes the front ones get flaky after frequent use, working for some stuff and not others).
- did you get the Liberte zip package? Did you unzip it? Did you run the setup.bat script as administrator? (file is called 'setup')
Both USB sticks on USB 2.0
I formatted them both FAT32 AND Fat with default allocated size, unticked quick format.
I tried 2 different USB ports for each of them, my computer is fairly new (Asus Gene-Z built last december)
I downloaded the zip package, unzipped the files onto the root and right clicked setup.bat and ran as administrator; it hid the folders and I rebooted the system to boot from the USB stick via bios. Nada
Ok, go to the Desu Liberte forums (their new one) and talk to Maxim (I think) or start up a thread (you'll get a response within 24 hours).
Also, tell Maxim to boost encryption from 8192 bit to 9001 bit in the next release so I can make over 9000 jokes all the time :)
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Haha well it turns out the two usb ports i tried were usb3.0, so using a usb 2.0 finally worked, but now my computer has a video rom collision problem and the screen turns black after some messages and nothing happens but my fans go overdrive lol. i think its frozen :(
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Haha well it turns out the two usb ports i tried were usb3.0, so using a usb 2.0 finally worked, but now my computer has a video rom collision problem and the screen turns black after some messages and nothing happens but my fans go overdrive lol. i think its frozen :(
Give your mouse a wave. You're probably right, could be hardware incompatibility, but sometimes with liberte people assume it's not working when in actual fact the screen turned off since it was taking so long to encrypt/process etc
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yeah i waved my mouse a bit and tried to press some buttons on the keyboard but nothing happened. I'm pretty sure it was frozen b/c I had to hard reset for my computer to turn off ~_~
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Can this be posted on not-clearnet..?
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Can this be posted on not-clearnet..?
What does it matter if you're still viewing it through Tor...?
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Thanks to the OP for posting this info, really helped me out!! Glad I don't have to use Windows for this. :)
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Newb question, but after I get this working from the usb do I really need to erase my harddrive and all my movies pics and music and programs?
I have only been browsing SR and forums so far on Windows 7 with the tor bundle. I havent actually got btc or ordered yet, but I am ready to but some goodies but I want to be smart about it, I am just kinda poor and cant afford a new laptop or an external HDD even. But that would be the best thing right, copy everything I wanna keep to an external then secure erase the drive and reinstall?
Thanks for the post keep up the good work guys
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Formatted my flashdrive, downloaded Liberte and extracted to flashdrive, ran setup.bat as administrator, yet can't get it to boot for some reason. When I try to boot from the flashdrive, it says "Selected boot device not available." Tried it on another computer and it boots fine and loads up Liberte, but I'd like to be able to use it on this computer as well.... what's wrong?
Still haven't figured that out, but it's not a huge problem because I just ended up using it on the second computer. All has been working fine until today, when I tried to boot up and it decided to just boot into my regular OS. Checked the boot settings and for some reason the USB HDD option is nowhere to be found in boot settings or setup. I haven't changed any settings at all, so I'm not sure why this would have happened. I even tried re-formatting and doing a clean install of Liberte on the flash drive, and nothing. I do know the flash drive is working, and I know that the computer recognizes it because I am able to view its contents from my regular OS, but I am stumped as to why the option to boot from USB has suddenly disappeared. Maybe it's just not being recognized by the BIOS.... but I have no idea, that's a little beyond me. any advice?
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Newb question, but after I get this working from the usb do I really need to erase my harddrive and all my movies pics and music and programs?
You don't have to delete your binary files like pictures, movies, music, documents etc. It's the records of the operating system and potentially suspect things like having the TOR bundle and files related to SR you need to be worried about.
I have only been browsing SR and forums so far on Windows 7 with the tor bundle. I havent actually got btc or ordered yet, but I am ready to but some goodies but I want to be smart about it, I am just kinda poor and cant afford a new laptop or an external HDD even. But that would be the best thing right, copy everything I wanna keep to an external then secure erase the drive and reinstall?
Yes. In your case, if you have a decent internet connection, you might upload your stuff to some manner of cloud service for safekeeping. However, you might have too much data for that, in which case you'll need to borrow an external HD or something. Also, you will need to buy a USB flash drive to run Liberte from.
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Thanks Pine, so you are saying I can use this secure erase program to erase the Tor bundle and the Liberte download file from my hard drive and I should be fine, right?
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Thanks Pine, so you are saying I can use this secure erase program to erase the Tor bundle and the Liberte download file from my hard drive and I should be fine, right?
If you mean using it to delete just those two folders, I've bad news for you.
You need to overwrite every binary digit in your HD. Put the files you want onto the external, and a copy of Liberte (zip) onto the flash drive. Format and overwrite your HD (once is enough) from a live-OS (not Liberte, it's not ideal for this job, so you'll want 2x USBs) from a USB using some overwriting program. Then do a full clean install of your desired OS.
It's just easier to do this, than to cover every conceivable leak in your security, all kinds of OS records are kept in places you'd never even think of. I've never heard of anybody recovering data from an overwritten HD. Some geeks think it's possible, but they've been reading too much sci-fi. There's no actual empirical evidence you need to overwrite more than once. But yes, overwrite you must if you wish to have maximum security.
Note: If you are a just a buyer buying small quantities, then this could be overkill. But most people prefer peace of mind.
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Part 5
Use a p.o. box or even better a storage company that people use when moving house etc some of these include a mailbox service which is cheap usually less than 15$ a month.
Use fake ID for purchase (around 60$) should work, you may need fake letter for proof of address can pick one up of some forger for around 20$
Storage company = better as usually they have less advanced cctv etc than at a p.o. box just something I heard down the anonymous grape vine.
Or
ship to home address use your real first name but use a fake last name that's similar, or use your real name should be okay.
Then when getting package write in RED ink IN BOLD return to sender.
Leave near door, wait a few days / a week.
Then when you think it's okay at some random point of time, grab package and open.
Just my 0.02btc.
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I've read all 9 pages and decided to scrap using tails and I'm now use Liberte on a usb (after wiping the usb with eraser). Here is my question:
After logging out of my Liberte session and rebooting back into windows, when I look at the usb (start>computers>usb drive) why do I only see the zipped file of Liberte and no other types of files or folders associated with Liberte, as I did with Tails?
Where did Liberte install to? I downloaded the zip file, put it on the root of my usb and unzipped and installed everything without issue.
I'm very impressed with the great amount of knowledge on this forum, and I spend (try to) more time reading than posting. Thanks for the great info guys/girls!
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i believe it makes those folders hidden to install in. perhaps if you click show hidden files/folders you'll see two folders to explore.
the syslinux.cfg is useful for changing settings etc if needed
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i believe it makes those folders hidden to install in. perhaps if you click show hidden files/folders you'll see two folders to explore.
the syslinux.cfg is useful for changing settings etc if needed
So you believe they ARE on my usb, they are just hidden, correct?
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yup
get into the tools r folder options in windows and click show hidden files and folders, you'll see it