Quote from: jundullahi on May 13, 2013, 02:21 pmDear Pine. I understand you point. My conviction as a Muslim is like this. A true Islamic society would be based on believe in AllahAnd Islam strive to uphold high moral values and have a good character. Believe would be based on 3 thing fear, love and hope. Those three would motivated the people to work towards high moral values.I explain fear. the fear of punishment from God. Would prevent people from doing bad thingI explain hope. the hope for a reward from God would motivated people do good thing.And love of God would balance out two.Then an Islamic society would strife to educated it people the highest level of there ability in Islam there is is knowledge that obligatory on every Muslim to know. When a society has a small number of people interacting, this works well. It is a set of principals at the level between individuals.But once you scale up to many millions of people, especially when they are interacting a great deal more, this system breaks down. Moral codes do have real, almost physical limits related to demographics. Having a code is important, but its not a sufficient prerequisite for effective governance of society. There are too many people and too much information for a code to perform the same task globally as it would for smaller communities. FWIW I also think the same of democracy, this isn't specially a critique of Muslim society at all. I think a lot of our current economic dysfunction has its roots in the failures of democracy to adequately address the real problems of people.Quote from: jundullahi on May 13, 2013, 02:21 pmThis does not work so well any more because most off the Muslims now are ignorant and wishing to remain that why. But does who are not do strive and work to achieve them.I would say this to be expected, and many of the most respected leaders of your system are largely to blame for most Muslims failing to live up to the standards they should. Most of them still believe in some quasi socialist economic dream that has never panned out. The new generation is almost as bad, but through simple ignorance. They have not been imaginative or creative enough to help their own. Those who are best positioned in society have the responsibility to look out for those less intelligent or fortunate. You need a better way to scale up basically, a new Islamic route to maintain values in a more complicated system. That shall probably mean becoming a great deal more sophisticated on issues of economics. I have noticed that practically none of the Muslims I know personally are educated about things like global trade, international finance. This is despite the fact most of them are excellent business people and hard workers, but seem adverse to becoming actors in these other areas that could make them a good deal more wealthy.On a more general level, the economies of the Middle East apart from Israel are very concentrated in certain sectors. This causes social problems which make it very difficult for people to be following any manner of moral code. It is just realpolitik.Put simply; I think the best approach is a Islamic interpretation of free market capitalism. I think this is happening, I think a lot of younger Muslims realize that this is the way to go, because as you probably know there is a huge upsurge in Islamic financial systems in the past decade. Hopefully that should in the end encourage a diversification of businesses instead of concentrating in one or two sectors. Too much concentration in a small number of industries is one of the key reasons why social instability exists in places like Iran, Bahrain and elsewhere. Then, if you get the economics right, the rest should follow. It is much easier for people to be good to each other if they have enough to eat, if they are independent they can respect each other more and so on. Morality depends on some level of empathy, introspection, either learned from others or developed personally, and you cannot be introspective without money. It might not be everything and I'm not saying you need a great deal of it for this to be true but without any most people cannot be good. I doubt many people want to believe this but it is true. Quote from: jundullahi on May 13, 2013, 02:21 pmFor people to change there must be a real reason for self preservation. Fear is used correctly can work wonder.Example is there would there be no fear of getting got drunk driving of stealing I believe there would must more if this happening all over the world.Still it does not prevent some from still doing that for what every reason.You mentioned you read every thing. Did you every read to Quran?I have read one or two surahs but not the entire book. I didn't mean to imply I literally have read everything, just that I read widely :)