dpr, the forbes article, and how my views of him have changed

[wraithe]

i recently read the new forbes article about his life as "josh" and It has become clear to me now, that he didnt do this for money.  that 80million he supposedly made didnt mean shit to him.  he was what appears to be an anti-social/introvert, such as many of us and this was his community, a place he felt accepted and comfortable with. After reading that article and seeing how he spent his life, I feel sad.  not sad because hes arrested, I mean we are all adults and we have to live with choices we make, but sad because that is a sad life he lived.  No going with friends or family, just us.  I am not knocking dpr at all, hell majority of us are identical to him(including myself), We have an easier time relating and identifying with a computer screen then we do physical people,  we saw SR as a community, an internet family.  I just feel bad that he had to live that life to be able to be with the community he felt most comfortable with.  I dont know why I posted this, after reading that I got all emotional and shit lol haha

[RayonBlvd]

It's true.  It has been said that DPR got a "commission" off of every sale.  But in the end, it hasn't worked out that way.

Instead, quite the opposite has happened.  He is paying a price for giving all of us *the choice* to have access to certain things.  An unfortunate martyr, of sorts.

We should take steps (like decentralization) so that future DPRs don't have to pay that price.

[theb3arjew]

If you were aware of the kind of person DPR presented himself as, this information wouldn't be as surprising. In my mind, he was more of a visionary. The Silk Road was never a means of revenue, but more a social project to, for lack of a better term, "stick it to the man". If you think about it, he accomplished exactly what he set out to do. Now the "black market", a market that has always prided itself on doing what it wants, when it wants, regardless of government concern, will never be the same. He has shown us a way of life rarely seen prior, and I think that is exactly what he wanted to do.

[kittenfluff]

i recently read the new forbes article about his life as "josh" and It has become clear to me now, that he didnt do this for money.  that 80million he supposedly made didnt mean shit to him.  he was what appears to be an anti-social/introvert, such as many of us and this was his community, a place he felt accepted and comfortable with. After reading that article and seeing how he spent his life, I feel sad.  not sad because hes arrested, I mean we are all adults and we have to live with choices we make, but sad because that is a sad life he lived.  No going with friends or family, just us.  I am not knocking dpr at all, hell majority of us are identical to him(including myself), We have an easier time relating and identifying with a computer screen then we do physical people,  we saw SR as a community, an internet family.  I just feel bad that he had to live that life to be able to be with the community he felt most comfortable with.  I dont know why I posted this, after reading that I got all emotional and shit lol haha

Well said, though I don't know so much about being naturally introverted. I think the choice to be an outlaw is inevitable once you see the world a certain way, and being an outlaw will always cause that kind of disconnect from the rest of society... it is sad that society is such that we HAVE to hide ourselves away, connecting only through computer screens...

[welldam]

i recently read the new forbes article about his life as "josh" and It has become clear to me now, that he didnt do this for money.  that 80million he supposedly made didnt mean shit to him.  he was what appears to be an anti-social/introvert, such as many of us and this was his community, a place he felt accepted and comfortable with. After reading that article and seeing how he spent his life, I feel sad.  not sad because hes arrested, I mean we are all adults and we have to live with choices we make, but sad because that is a sad life he lived.  No going with friends or family, just us.  I am not knocking dpr at all, hell majority of us are identical to him(including myself), We have an easier time relating and identifying with a computer screen then we do physical people,  we saw SR as a community, an internet family.  I just feel bad that he had to live that life to be able to be with the community he felt most comfortable with.  I dont know why I posted this, after reading that I got all emotional and shit lol haha

I agree with you, not hard to feel bad for the guy. Yes he may have made some poor judgement and made mistakes but hell he is human thats what we do

[wraithe]

i was trying to get at was its easy to say you support something when you have 80 million in bitcoins and assumed living like a persian prince.  however he chose to live as if he made 20k a year lol which makes everything he said and done mean more because it wasnt motivated by money

[NorthernStar]

I think you're missing the point. He was " low key" do you know what that means.? Not bringing attention to himself, modesty. See that's how he survived 2 years as opposed to Atlantis, because he lived unpretentiously, under the radar, please try and understand, ostentatious living brings attention.

I actually posted about this but my thread was moved to the new Ross Ulbrich section.

[dr.xtc]

that forbes article was the begining to the end for him. The feds take that shit as a slap to the face. When you flaunt it they have no choice but to come and find you. It reminds me of when pot growers in washington go on national news and show theyre crop only to get raided by the feds the next day. IF YOU ARE A CRIMINAL FUCKING ACT LIKE IT OR SAY GOODBYE TO YOUR FREEDOM.KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!That type of shit makes them eat, sleep and breathe dpr and silk road. And im sure they were presured to go after the road by the many politicians who read forbes. Next time if dpr needs to do a article do fucking high times. Please

[Pharmington Rex]

If it wasn't about the money, then why not have a flat rate? And why was there an increase in commission at the high end?

[wraithe]

I think you're missing the point. He was " low key" do you know what that means.? Not bringing attention to himself, modesty. See that's how he survived 2 years as opposed to Atlantis, because he lived unpretentiously, under the radar, please try and understand, ostentatious living brings attention.

I actually posted about this but my thread was moved to the new Ross Ulbrich section.

you mistook what I was saying.  I was saying its easy to "believe" in something when it pays you 80million and your living like you have 80million.  Its another thing to believe in an idea and not reap any monetary benefits from it.  think about the hours put in, the stress, the danger and he lived as if he worked at the dell tech center.  Im saying he wasnt doing it for money.

[Burning Babylon]

If it wasn't about the money, then why not have a flat rate? And why was there an increase in commission at the high end?

This is exactly our Feelings, in fact with the amount of Funds amassed it would have been enough to run the site until the End of Time with 0.1 Percent Commission as Improvements to the Site weren't implemented by anyone but himself anyway. We're looking at a Concept of an Individual with Access to Virtually Unlimited Potential for a Black Market Site with an amount of Funds so large he could have employed 1000+ individuals for  a Year and he would still have Millions of Dollars over. What a waste of potential.

If you were aware of the kind of person DPR presented himself as, this information wouldn't be as surprising. In my mind, he was more of a visionary. The Silk Road was never a means of revenue, but more a social project to, for lack of a better term, "stick it to the man". If you think about it, he accomplished exactly what he set out to do. Now the "black market", a market that has always prided itself on doing what it wants, when it wants, regardless of government concern, will never be the same. He has shown us a way of life rarely seen prior, and I think that is exactly what he wanted to do.

A Visionary who isn't capable of implementing his Vision with Access to large amounts of Funds is not a very good Visionary, it makes me angry to even think about it what could have been accomplished. 
Now more could be said on this matter but it will have to wait until the Facts from the Trial have been Presented...

[NorthernStar]

I think you're missing the point. He was " low key" do you know what that means.? Not bringing attention to himself, modesty. See that's how he survived 2 years as opposed to Atlantis, because he lived unpretentiously, under the radar, please try and understand, ostentatious living brings attention.

I actually posted about this but my thread was moved to the new Ross Ulbrich section.

you mistook what I was saying.  I was saying its easy to "believe" in something when it pays you 80million and your living like you have 80million.  Its another thing to believe in an idea and not reap any monetary benefits from it.  think about the hours put in, the stress, the danger and he lived as if he worked at the dell tech center.  Im saying he wasnt doing it for money.

I'm with you now. Sound.

[Bibi Netanyahu]

I think that this project "Silk Road" became a too big operation for him, and i think that somewhere deep in his heart he knew how this shit would end.
Anyway, cashing out 80 millions $$ needs a massive operation of several experienced people in the know and he probably knew that. If not then he was probably a lunatic.
He lived in SF where bitcoins are used wildly, so he could easily eat outside everyday, maybe buy a car, even pay the rent, and that's it.

but yeah there's a good possibility he was a a bit lunatic with all the murder charges and fake name and forged passports lol... This shit is unreal to do for someone with a background like he's

[aussieoutlaw]

@Wraithe ......well said ,exactly how I think of this. I couldn't put into words so thank you

[oracle]

One can be interested in expanding their wealth and also in revolutionary ideas simultaneously. There is no ban on both at the same time.
I know that it will make no difference to most of you, but it would be in good form to use the word "allegedly" before Ross Ulbright's actions (in relation to activities by Dread Pirate Roberts). Ross Ulbright is innocent until proven guilty, and it would be a good habit to get into ".. allegedly Ulbright did such and such".

Since this case involves the Internet and Silk Road, it's forums (past and present) and quotes (both private and public) by Internet handles.. one would be foolish to think that the prosecution and law enforcement will not be combing these forums and approaching people in hopes to get something on Mr. Ulbright and this case in general.

[JohnTheBaptist]

Innocent till proven guilty? It's America friend not England.

[oracle]

Well, exactly. And this case is going to come with enough twists and turns that even Hollywood couldn't write. Oracles know things, hence they are oracles.

[Callisto]

One can be interested in expanding their wealth and also in revolutionary ideas simultaneously. There is no ban on both at the same time.
I know that it will make no difference to most of you, but it would be in good form to use the word "allegedly" before Ross Ulbright's actions (in relation to activities by Dread Pirate Roberts). Ross Ulbright is innocent until proven guilty, and it would be a good habit to get into ".. allegedly Ulbright did such and such".

Since this case involves the Internet and Silk Road, it's forums (past and present) and quotes (both private and public) by Internet handles.. one would be foolish to think that the prosecution and law enforcement will not be combing these forums and approaching people in hopes to get something on Mr. Ulbright and this case in general.

Agree...

[Smoked Out Sunday]

Innocent till proven guilty? It's America friend not England.

More like guilty until proven further butt fucked by LE then you ever knew possible..

[ProEvo]

One can be interested in expanding their wealth and also in revolutionary ideas simultaneously. There is no ban on both at the same time.
I know that it will make no difference to most of you, but it would be in good form to use the word "allegedly" before Ross Ulbright's actions (in relation to activities by Dread Pirate Roberts). Ross Ulbright is innocent until proven guilty, and it would be a good habit to get into ".. allegedly Ulbright did such and such".

I completely agree mate. It really annoys me when people assume Ross is guilty, especially when it's in the media. What happened to innocent until proven guilty!?

[Quixote]

I think you're missing the point. He was " low key" do you know what that means.? Not bringing attention to himself, modesty. See that's how he survived 2 years as opposed to Atlantis, because he lived unpretentiously, under the radar, please try and understand, ostentatious living brings attention.

I actually posted about this but my thread was moved to the new Ross Ulbrich section.

you mistook what I was saying.  I was saying its easy to "believe" in something when it pays you 80million and your living like you have 80million.  Its another thing to believe in an idea and not reap any monetary benefits from it.  think about the hours put in, the stress, the danger and he lived as if he worked at the dell tech center.  Im saying he wasnt doing it for money.

I'm with you now. Sound.

Word.

[codyqueen]

One can be interested in expanding their wealth and also in revolutionary ideas simultaneously. There is no ban on both at the same time.
I know that it will make no difference to most of you, but it would be in good form to use the word "allegedly" before Ross Ulbright's actions (in relation to activities by Dread Pirate Roberts). Ross Ulbright is innocent until proven guilty, and it would be a good habit to get into ".. allegedly Ulbright did such and such".

Since this case involves the Internet and Silk Road, it's forums (past and present) and quotes (both private and public) by Internet handles.. one would be foolish to think that the prosecution and law enforcement will not be combing these forums and approaching people in hopes to get something on Mr. Ulbright and this case in general.

Absolutely this. He isn't and never was DPR until convicted of being so. As someone with former aspirations of being a journalist and who has an interest in the way peoples minds work, I'm insanely intrigued by Ross. I'd have liked to have met him. Whether he was DPR or not, he seems like an interesting guy to talk to. The things I've read about him, the person he is, and the way he lived in comparison to the person he's being portrayed as (placing hits on people etc) do not add up to me. I'd like to know his thoughts on what he's being accused of.

[gwern]

that forbes article was the begining to the end for him. The feds take that shit as a slap to the face.

BS. By the time the Forbes thing was published, the investigations had already found the circumstantial details, had already turned a SR employee and gotten DPR to solicit a hit, they had already imaged the SR server, had already questioned DPR over the fake IDs... He was doomed from the day he believed Nob, if not before. The Forbes article had nothing to do with it.

[hunter thompson]

I thought the same. Damn he never touched the 80 million? Maybe of fear, maybe he did not really need it.

And people are getting arrested for giving other people the chance to get drugs safe and in much better quality? What is LE thinking, I can't believe they all sit there feeling good and partying hard on their "success". Its pretty disgusting.

[CheapestCocaine]

I felt the same way. Humans are social creatures and must act as such to truly be happy. I feel like he was working his way up though, Im sure he had a plan that once he accomplished a certain amount he would make a move. What I dont get though, is why he stayed in America, a populated city like San Francisco nonetheless. I read that article as well and if I didnt have friends or many material possesions other than my laptop, I would most definitely leave the country! He wasnt a vendor, so he could do his job literally anywhere in the world where there's WiFi. I am not sure if I am correct in this, but I think that 80 million in bitcoins is inaccessible to the feds and Im pretty sure his first chance as a free man hes going to do something with it.

On another note, I am enthralled to have been a part of this revolution. We made history together. I cant even imagine what the other 99% of the world thought when this was all over the news. It was probably a combination of "How could this possibly exist" and "why the fuck didnt i know about this years ago!!" Its funny, I had quite a few people bring it up to me or around me and I just had to act like "Oh, that is so interesting that existed, I wonder how it worked" (even though i was DYING on the inside)

[JohnTheBaptist]

What poignant words....

[fuckingfedsandnoobsohmy]

but yeah there's a good possibility he was a a bit lunatic with all the murder charges and fake name and forged passports lol... This shit is unreal to do for someone with a background like he's

Once you start to play internet criminal lord you might end up surprised how deep down the rabbit hole you end up. One thing leads to another, and next thing you know it feels normal to have a stack of fake passports, talking to people moving million bucks at a time and meeting some really interesting and really shady characters.

[ЈohnTheВaptist-Imposter]

Innocent till proven guilty? It's America friend not England.

[Nightcrawler]

that forbes article was the begining to the end for him. The feds take that shit as a slap to the face. When you flaunt it they have no choice but to come and find you. It reminds me of when pot growers in washington go on national news and show theyre crop only to get raided by the feds the next day. IF YOU ARE A CRIMINAL FUCKING ACT LIKE IT OR SAY GOODBYE TO YOUR FREEDOM.KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!That type of shit makes them eat, sleep and breathe dpr and silk road. And im sure they were presured to go after the road by the many politicians who read forbes. Next time if dpr needs to do a article do fucking high times. Please

I am reminded of comments made by hacker and security specialist the Grugq. Youtube has a video of a presentation he made ad the Hackinthebox conference in 2012.

In his presentation, he said: "You can be a criminal, or you can be famous -- but you cannot be a famous criminal. "

Nightcrawler
4096R/BBF7433B 2012-09-22 Nightcrawler <Nightcrawler@SR>
PGP Key: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=174.msg633090#msg633090
PGP Key Fingerprint = D870 C6AC CC6E 46B0 E0C7  3955 B8F1 D88E BBF7 433B

Security is a bit like religion... some things have to be taken on faith.
Where security differs from religion is that security is NOT retroactive.
Unlike Christianity, where you can come to Jesus, be 'saved' and have all
your sins washed away, with security you can adopt Tails or PGP, and be
secure from that point forward, but rest assured that your previous sins
(security failings) WILL come back to haunt you and bite you in the ass.
The original DPR is the poster child for that, right now.

[blueandgreen]

If it wasn't about the money, then why not have a flat rate? And why was there an increase in commission at the high end?

one of the reasons rhe commission was there is to prevent scammers from giving themselves fake feedback on high priced items. i wouldnt want to give myself fake feedback on a kilo of cocaine listing because then i would have to give 1% to sillk ropad each time i made a fake purchase!
i think that is also why the vendor fee was so much. Since ppl  are scamming to make quick cash (bec they dont have any), he made the vendor fee 500$ to try to stop most of the  scammers. Of course it didnt stop coachella, but he's a different story..

[Burning Babylon]

If there was no drug war and the FBI hadn't used entrapment to create an atmosphere where violence was employed there would have been no actual harm by him to anyone and that has to be looked at. The US will actually use drone strikes to kill people they don't know and the users sitting in an airconditioned cabin in the desert gets a medal. This man defends people because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few and when viewed from this angle because of government violence either way, who is to blame?

This whole thing is unfortunate because he was obviously a bright young man who has created the greatest experiment in agorism to date and shows the superiority of agorism over all other market systems and prior to the FBI threatening to ruin his and many other peoples lives had harmed nobody. If it wasn't for the drug war he would be on the front cover of TIme magazine and as big as Amazon. If Silk Road could ever go mainstream it will become the biggest online market not just for drugs but everything.

The resurrection of Silk Road shows something that is true all over the Universe, life finds a way!

~ The Sock Puppet

If there were no Drug War things would be radically different yes, but I do not understand how you make the Assumption this would somehow benefit Silk Road or other Black Market Sites? Not only that you State Silk Road would go on and become the Biggest Online Market not just for Drugs but for everything else as well - are you Serious? In an Open Market all current Black Market Sites would get utterly Demolished due to the fact they can't utilize very Advanced Coding as the Functionality of the Tor Browser is quite Limited.

If it wasn't about the money, then why not have a flat rate? And why was there an increase in commission at the high end?

one of the reasons rhe commission was there is to prevent scammers from giving themselves fake feedback on high priced items. i wouldnt want to give myself fake feedback on a kilo of cocaine listing because then i would have to give 1% to sillk ropad each time i made a fake purchase!
i think that is also why the vendor fee was so much. Since ppl  are scamming to make quick cash (bec they dont have any), he made the vendor fee 500$ to try to stop most of the  scammers. Of course it didnt stop coachella, but he's a different story..

The Commission was there to give Income to the Old Dread Pirate Roberts and that's all there was to it. Normally one would expect it would be re-invested into Security, Features, Programmers and so on but apparently there was some other plan in Motion, of which parts included donating a significant amount of Funds to the FBI. Every single High Profile Scam ever performed on the old Silk Road included a High Profile Vendor who had Solid Feedback who suddenly decided to go Rogue, and Commission didn't help in the slightest and it never will. The Fact it usually took the Administration a lot of Time to act on these Exit Scams even makes a Case they were not especially highly prioritized by the Old Dread Pirate Roberts.

In fact the Old Silk Road didn't need to take any Commission at all and could easily have done similarly as Bitpay ( http://torimagesbp2vt3u.onion/i/3ioyw.png ) and changed their Structure to Offering various Vendor Subscription Services. This of course goes for all Current and Future Black Market Sites as well but they don't have Millions of Dollars lying around to be able to do this yet but they will eventually have to do it as well or sooner or later a Site will come along which does.

[baller69]

The road was a vision that Ross had.  An idea that will never die. 

[partyboy]

All the top guys atleast in the united states are beyond low key, good examples of this would be 'American gangster' but the fur coat and the seats at the ali fight are his downfall that's what got frank lucas on the radar, he knew better and still fucked up. The forbes article has striking similarites to the times magazine with nicky barnes on the cover, those who dont learn from history (are doomed to repeat it) and as far as making millions and not needing or using it ill leave you with this.. Frank Costello: I haven't "needed the money" since I took Archie's milk money in the third grade. Tell you the truth, I don't need pussy any more either... but I like it.