Silk Road forums

Hello Nod, Thanks for all the great ideas, some we may use, some not so much, but thanks none the less. +1 to you.
Magic

Thanks!  I see you took some of them, posting a bit more on the forums for brand recognition.  Seriously though, where's the signature update telling how good in bed you are?  How else are you going to let these people know! 

I have a feeling that's what your name refers to, the "magic moments". Play to your strengths man!

Magic,

I think you're on the right path.  You have the right attitude and people are saying you've got a good product, as you get more sales people will have more confidence.

Here are some helpful ideas from a fellow vendor:

I think overall you just need to to market more and continue to establish yourself. 

When I release a new product the first thing I would do is offer a temporary low introductory pricing so people can get it for a steal.  Let people know that you are selling a premium product at a loss to entice them to buy so that they understand this is a deal.  That will speed things up and get more orders under your belt.  It doesn't really matter how cheaply you have to sell it because it's temporary until people trust you.  Things should improve at around 100 orders  If you listed your product at half price for the next 100 orders it would cost you about $5000.  I consider this $5000 advertising. 

Instead of selling 1.0g at a lower price if you don't mind a bunch of labor what you can do is sell 0.2gm samples for $15 each.  This has the advntage of getting the order count up very quickly, but it has a few disadvantages.  I don't do this because I don't like sticking a lot of packages in the mail and I have a high cost per shipment related to my security protocols, but if this is something you feel comfortable doing you can get a lot of orders and feedback under your belt.  Another danger is dropping the price down to the $15 for 0.2gm range lets in a bunch of less mature people which means you might get poor feedback.

Another great way to market is to talk to the established members of the forum with lots of posts and positive karma and send them free samples with the clear understanding that the favorable deal is for them to do a review, not for favoritism in the review.  You have to be careful to be clear that you are not bribing them for a favorable review, but just a review which should be unbiased.  As long as it's clear that you're on morally high ground this is a great way to get the ball rolling. 

Speaking of forums, talking with people and helping the community in the cocaine forums is a good way to get your name spread around just by communicating.  I made a post earlier today about purification of cocaine for example.  If I'm lucky people will start to call this "nod's method of purification" which is brand recognition.  I also put a comment about being extremely good in bed in my tag line in hopes that I might get some hot chicks flirting with me, sure as shit.. brand recognition (hi 'blue & dark!)

The photos you have look absolutely delicious.  SR shrinks them down for bandwidth reasons so some of the detail is lost.  You might want to upload a higher res copy on the onion image uploader so people can see what they're getting.   I use my name in the photos so that people know the product shown is actually in my hands, and to prevent others from stealing the photos of my product for their use, you might consider that if you dont want anybody to steal your photos.

Since you have a brick in your hands another option you have is to send solid 1.1gm chunks to customers rather than powder as a novelty.  While coke can be rerocked, most rerocks are horrid soft messes so sending a solid chunk for people to razor blade off of helps customer confidence. Chunks are harder to ship but there's always ways

Yeh Nod, straight to the point mate.
You could probably answert my questyion.
Every time I have a shot, I get  face full of pns & needles, then hands, to a lesser dgree, feet. It can be quite unpleasant, until it wears away
to be replaced by the stone. I've read it somewhere before in a ppost, regarding histamines, but I could never frigging find it, any advice, our
new knwledge master in all things Dope.
HM

Do your face and ears turn red too?  If so this is niacin flush, from vitamin b3 (vitamin b3 is niacin).  If so it is harmless.

To double check get some non time delay release Niacin from GNC and take large doses, you should get the same thing.  To cause it you'll need to take somewhere between 2000mg and 5000mg (not all at once, though it wont hurt you, it's annoying).  Take more & more until you get a weird tingly in your face and your face turns all red.  If that is what you're feeling when you do the shot we've found the culprit.

If this is in fact what it is that's a good thing, there's no danger to taking too much niacin other than this irritation and it raises HDL cholesterol better than just about anything.    This is why it's used as a cut, it's a very safe choice and it makes the product look closer to china white.  If your #4 is cut with this don't get upset with the vendor, depending on your point of view it would be irresponsible to sell 85% pure morphine here due to overdose since the norm is 30% for OD reasons, so it's a good thing it's cut, and this is a very safe thing to cut it with.

Nod

Hey guys - I wrote something up about purifying alkaloids on the heroin social thread there and thought it might be useful here.

The technique I used was what I originally used to purify cocaine in some purity testing so it's 100% applicable to cocaine, in fact I have done it for coke but not heroin so if there were any question it would be whether it's useful for heroin rather than coke.  I originally figured this out while looking at the solubility charts in the cocaine handbook will remove all but three known cuts (that sounds bad, but really it's great).  I later found out that what I had stumbled on is characteristics that are common to most alkaloids.

Ignore what it says about #4 if your only concern is cocaine.  #4 is the heroin salt, typically diamoprhine hydrochloride and is equiv in this case to cocaine hydrochloride as far as the characteristics go that make this process applicable.  Similarly, #3 is heroin base and is similar in this case to cocaine base.  The reason I can interchange these terms is the solubility behavior in water is similar between these two alkaloids, as is the solubility behavior in diethyl ether.



There are two posts. post 95 is a general discussion about base vs salts, and post 98 is random thoughts, which contains at the end a purification technique that exploits commonalities in alkaloids which works for many drugs, including cocaine and heroin.

post 95 (base / salt explanation with an eye towards heroin):

Quote from: rtshredder on December 23, 2012, 02:47 am

We don't get much #3 over here, it's more of a European thing from what I understand. And it's easily smokeable, not easily snortable, and you have to use lemon juice or something to shoot it.

People say you can smoke #4, and I know you can snort easily, and shoot it with nothing more than water.

You got more knowledge to drop?

Sure, I can't be thorough though because I'm headed out in a few minutes.  This will be quick and dirty

=its morphine!=
"Heroin" is morphine (dicetylmorphine).  If it's used by doctors it's called morphine, if it's illicit they call it heroin.

=wtf are those numbers=
Powder heroin is made for the most part in the golden triangle in Asia.  The terms #1-#4 are stages in a manufacturing process.  #1 is the most raw, #4 is the most refined.  Used in this sense #4 is in theory very high purity dicetylmophine with no inactive cuts.  Making #4 involves filtering through ether which is a refinement step that removes almost anything which is not an alkaloid ("alkaloid" for this purposes essentially means an organic drug, cocaine and heroin are both alkaloids).

The different stages have to do with commerce during manufacture in the golden triangle, nothing to do with use.

When a user says "#4" they are referring to the term used in manufacturing but it's used incorrectly, they think it just means water soluble and don't understand that the definition of #4 requires a level of purity.

The #4 found here is 30% diamorphine, the rest are inactive water soluble cuts like mannitol and nicain.  These are used as cuts because they're harmless and white. The reason white is good is because genuine (pure) #4 is white, hence the name "china white".  Niacin and Mannitol are used because they're harmless and since they're white it makes the final product lighter in color which people will assume it is more pure.

Please nobody yell at me for bashing other vendors products, this is common knowledge and I dont think any #4 vendor will have a beef with me clarifying unless they want people to think their product matches the manufacturing definition for #4, in which case they should state the purity instead.

=cocaine: base vs salt=
There is a concept that needs to be explained, I'll be using coke as an example because it's easy to get your mind around it's important to understand is this concept applies to all drugs including heroin.

When you buy "coke" you are actually buying cocaine hydrochloride.  The HCl ion makes it water soluble.  The reason it's water soluble is so that the water in your nose can dissolve it when you snort it.  Same with IV, you always use a water soluble derivitive of the drug or it would not dissolve in your blood and work.  The same is true for sticking it in yo' behind.

"Crack" is cocaine converted to be smoked.  The reason it has to be converted is cocaine-hcl has too high of a vaporization temperature.  In order to smoke you removing the hcl ion, which is called "freebasing" it.  It then becomes "cocaine base".  The proper way to cleanly remove this ion is to precipitate out of a water solution with ammonia but that's too much worse so people do it a dirtier way using baking soda.

Whether you smoke crack, or IV/snort/plug coke you're doing the same drug, the reason people smoke it is to get it in their system faster than snorting, that's it. 

The key points:
 *cocaine can exist as cocaine-hcl or cocaine-base and others that don't matter right now.
 *cocaine-hcl is water souble, a feature you need if you want to snort, IV, or plug it.
 *cocaine-base is not water soluble but has a lower evaporation point so you can heat it to evaporate without a chemical change which makes cocaine base useful for smoking.
 *Crack is what you call cocaine-hcl that has been converted to cocaine-base using baking soda and heat.
 *This base and salt concept applies to all alkaloids, including heroin.

=base vs salt=
Alkaloids (which again means "organic drugs" for our purposes) all have a bunch of common characteristics.  One of them is that they can exist in a base or a salt.  The salt is water soluble and can be snorted, IVed, or plugged, and the base is generally used for smoking

=#3 vs #4=

From here on out I'm going to use the heroin user nomenclature rather than manufacturing nomenclature and say "#3" and "#4" as they're used here.

#3 is heroin base
#4 is heroin salt

So this means #4 can be snorted, IVed, or plugged, but smoking is really hard because it takes a higher temperature to melt it.

#3 is great for smoking and people claim you can snort it because the acid in your nose will convert it, but that's stupid.

=converting between them=
you can convert between #3 and #4 and back easy as pie.

To make #3 in to #4 you add acid, that's where the citric acid and talk about lemons comes in.  You put your #3 in water and then add acid, that's it.  You can use a lemon and you have diacetylmorphine-citrate or hcl and you have dicetylmorphine-hydrochloride, it's as simple as that!

Converting #4 back to #3 you just put the #4 in water and add ammonia and #3 will magically appear out of the water.  Separate it from the water and dry and you have #3.

I've left some details out like watching your pH and how to dry it, but besides those steps it's really that simple.  I can talk more about this another time, or better yet we can drag in a real chemist - there's a few out here that actaully know what they're talking about rather than blowing smoke out their ass like me. :-)



=what the hell is bth?=
You didn't ask that and damn now i'm REALLY late so so I'll be very short - BTH is incomplete syntehesis of dicetylmoprhine from its components.  It was originally used as an easy way to create heroin without a lab, sort of like bathtub meth.

BTH contains diamorphine, and some other psychoactive drugs: 6MAM, 3MAM, and acetylcodine.  These other drugs are basically drugs that "didn't make it to diamorphine".  It's an artifact of the dirty process.

These days drugs are made in super labs and this dirty process is absolutely unnecesasry, the reason it still exists is people like it.  Many people prefer the different high that 6MAM gives you over pure morphine.  Many people don't like it too, I have a few friends that prefer #4 over my product.  It's a taste thing, like ketchup or onions on your hot dog. 

The stuff sell is off a large homogenous brick, probably made in a super lab in Mexico though I don't know for sure.  I haeven't had it tested but typically uncut BTH is 30% diamorphine, 30% 6MAM, 10% 3MAM, and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't get you high.


=back to what sparked this=

#4 is good for snorting, but not great for smoking because you cant get it to vaporize (or it will burn when you just want it to vaporize - i'm not sure, we need a chemist).  To smoke it you should convert it back to #3, then it'll smoke great.

I can give you more detailed instructions on how to convert #4 back to #3, and if you like I can give you instructions on how to filter through ether to remove cuts, then back to #4 for high purity #4 - but another time.

- Nod

post 98 (contains how to purify):

Hey guys!  I'm back from my date and I'm not getting laid so I thought I'd add some more notes (...though, I do have a friend of mine on torchat who asked her boyfriend over and they're asking me to suggest how he should tie her up so they can take photos for me.. wow my life has become strange and wonderful recently).


This is  going to be very quick & dirty again, I'll sound like a rambling mad man but it looks like you guys could use the food for thought so here is some:


I mentioned hydrochloric acid a few times in the last post.  "Muratic acid" is HCl in water at 28% concentration, it can be found at pool stores for like $10 for a gallon.  Be careful with this, last time I bought some fiddling around with purifying cocaine either this, acetone, or ammonia ate through a fingernail.  It grew back but something in this mix is bad for skin.

When I said that converting from #3 to #4 is as simple as putting it in water and adding an acid, and converting from #4 to #3 is as simple as adding ammonia, that's true but I should point out to do so slowly.  For cocaine, if you move outside of a certain pH range (either direction - too acidic or too basic) it breaks down to it's components.  I don't know for sure but I'd assume the same is true for heroin.  To avoid this you add the acid (or ammonia) slowly and stir lots.  You can get a pH meter at a nursery (where you buy small plants) for  $30, used for testing soil.

When you convert back and forth make sure not to leave a bunch of extra acid in there. Check the ph when you're done, if you leave extra acid that's bad for your veins if you IV, and bad for your nose if you snort.  Doesn't really bother your lower intestine much since it's used to processing Jalepenos.


When you convert from a base to a salt the molecular weight changes from the additional atoms.  I don't know the specifics for heroin but if I recall for coke the molecular weight is like 304gm/mol for cocaine base and 340 gm/mol for cocaine hcl.  There are two reasons this is important:

1) when you send out for purity tests they convert it down to the base first and do their tests, and then return the results in the base form rather than the HCl derivitive.  The extra step of converting back to HCl would just add inaccuracy and is unnecessary.  This means when you have a lab test cocaine the maximum percentage of purity they will return is 89% (304gm/mol / 340 gm/mol).  This is true from their point of view, you gave them cocaine-hcl and you they told you that it was 89% "cocaine [base]".  That's why I refused to post purity numbers on the coke I sell (besides not having tested it) - people claim "94% pure" which really just means they're full of crap.     This idea carries to heroin too, if you take #4 and test it for puritty he lab will return a figure based on the weight of the freebase which is lighter, just gotta keep that in mind.

2) if my research is right diacetylmorphine base ("#3") weighs 369 gm/mol and the hcl derivitive weighs 405 gm/mol. That means if you took 1gm of pure diacetylmorphine base and acidified it you would have 1.09gm.  This is important to understand because.. for some freaking reason people charge more for #4 than #3, which in a way is charging for lemon juice.



I mentioned purifiation.  Purification goes like this:



note: henceforth "morphine" not "diacetylmorphine" because it gets old typing that out.

1) take your #4 and dissolve it in water (oh no it disappears!  don't worry it comes back)
2) remove anything that did not dissolve as it was not morphine hcl (there should not be anything that did not dissolve, this is more of a problem with low end drugs that are cut by idiots, like street coke and street bth)..
3) add ammonia slowly until your morphine precipitates out, watching the ph meter.  When you add a drop of ammonia the ph will change. ph is essentially the measure of free hydrogen.  As you stir morphine freebase will drop out of suspension, becoming a solid in the water since it's not water soluble.  Keep adding ammonia one drop at a time until the ph stops going to center, which will be an indication that you have no more morphine to remove.

NOTE:  Everything in the water is water soluble because you removed it after step 2, but not everything is morphine.
NOTE #2: The stuff that precipitated out is what you awnt, but it's not not guaranteed to be morphine (it's not even guaranteed to be an alkaloid), however any morphine you started with is in there somewhere.
NOTE #3: Whatever did not precipitate out and is still in solution in the water is guaranteed to NOT be morphine at this point, so you want to discard that. 

4) remove the stuff that dissolved from the water using a filter.  You can get this at a chemistry supply store, there are different types of filters, for this purpose you want a high flow filter not a qualitative filter. The pro chem stuff works great because it was designed to, but honestly a coffee filter will do the job.

filtering is slow, you can filter faster by decanting, which basically means to use an eye dropper to either filter out the stuff which is obviously water, or to suck up the stuff which is mostly heroin - once you separate "most" of the water filtering becomes easier.

5) "Realize" (as Ali G says), now you have removed everything except stuff that:
   a) was originally water soluble
   b) can exist in both a base and a salt derivitive
   this means you have already removed a lot of stuff from your dirty mix.

6) next filter the heroin through a mix of ether and water (almost all ether)

It will be solid in the water and go in to suspension in the ether.   Anything which is solid is not an alkaloid, remove it.
The stuff that dissolved in to the ether is probably an alkaloid (and since it's unlikely that your drugs were cut with other drugs, this means the moprhine you want) - i'm not sure that non-alkaloids cannot dissolve in to ether, but that's the idea.  I'd venture a guess that this is mostly true.


7) evaporate the ether

you now have a solid that is probably pure freebase morphine.  Weight it.  This is your purity as a lab would present.  add 9% to this to get the percenage of your #4 which was morphine

9) convert ti back to #4 by putting it in a glass of water and adding a bit of muratic acid. 
same precautions as before with the pH meter and stirring just in reverse.  When it all disappears you can stop

10) evaporate the water

You now have highly pure diacetylmorphine.  Be careful, this is 3x as potent as the #4 you buy on SR and a hell of a lot more potent than what you'll find on the street.


The process listed above works for all alkaloids.  You can clean up coke with it for example - in fact, maybe the coke guys will find this and copy it, feel free to post a link to this if anybody is interested, earlier today a guy was trying to measure purity by exploiting the soluability characteristcs of coke in low water acetone and chloroform.  I think that guy got the idea from the sme place I did, the soluability chart from "the cocaine handbook" written back in the 80s.  If so then this process is more precise.

I wish I had put more time in to writing this more professionally, if someone wants to reformat this, double check it and take credit it's fine by me.

I just stopped over here because I am considering selling meth and wanted to learn more about the state of meth on SR.  I don't know much about it and love that you guys have testing procedures that I know zilch about.  Exciting!

While reading I ran across this:

There was always someone here, day or night, always. It was a hive of activity, the one thread full of characters from all walks of life, never shy of posting a story about anything

Always on day or night posting a story about anything? On the meth forum?  You don't say!

Shit you read all that?  =)

I'm pretty bad at telling where people's tongues are.  I also just noticed you're a vendor here.  Hi comrad!

The temperature test will tell you what temperature it melts at and as long as nothing else is in there that melts at the same temperature that will tell you, however cuts are designed to fool people so what listed is a better way to test the purity of a drug.  It should in theory works for BTH too, but BTH is more complicated since it has four intentional psychoactive drugs in it.

Your profile says you sell china white.  By making this claim you are stating that it is highly pure.  If that is true you can take advantage of this situation by differentiating yourself from the vendors that make unverifiable subjective claims by posting an objective verifiable claim like "x% pure" for people to compare to.  This will carry a lot more weight with people once someone verifies the claim.

If you're interested I'll help you through the steps above to test it.  I was thinking though.. if tomorrow when people read this they get a boner for all this geek talk, maybe we should hire the chemist who's selling his sr business to school us on this.  I am just a hobbyist, that guy could really teach us all a thing or two!

Nod

Hey guys!  I'm back from my date and I'm not getting laid so I thought I'd add some more notes (...though, I do have a friend of mine on torchat who asked her boyfriend over and they're asking me to suggest how he should tie her up so they can take photos for me.. wow my life has become strange and wonderful recently).


This is  going to be very quick & dirty again, I'll sound like a rambling mad man but it looks like you guys could use the food for thought so here is some:


I mentioned hydrochloric acid a few times in the last post.  "Muratic acid" is HCl in water at 28% concentration, it can be found at pool stores for like $10 for a gallon.  Be careful with this, last time I bought some fiddling around with purifying cocaine either this, acetone, or ammonia ate through a fingernail.  It grew back but something in this mix is bad for skin.

When I said that converting from #3 to #4 is as simple as putting it in water and adding an acid, and converting from #4 to #3 is as simple as adding ammonia, that's true but I should point out to do so slowly.  For cocaine, if you move outside of a certain pH range (either direction - too acidic or too basic) it breaks down to it's components.  I don't know for sure but I'd assume the same is true for heroin.  To avoid this you add the acid (or ammonia) slowly and stir lots.  You can get a pH meter at a nursery (where you buy small plants) for  $30, used for testing soil.

When you convert back and forth make sure not to leave a bunch of extra acid in there. Check the ph when you're done, if you leave extra acid that's bad for your veins if you IV, and bad for your nose if you snort.  Doesn't really bother your lower intestine much since it's used to processing Jalepenos.


When you convert from a base to a salt the molecular weight changes from the additional atoms.  I don't know the specifics for heroin but if I recall for coke the molecular weight is like 304gm/mol for cocaine base and 340 gm/mol for cocaine hcl.  There are two reasons this is important:

1) when you send out for purity tests they convert it down to the base first and do their tests, and then return the results in the base form rather than the HCl derivitive.  The extra step of converting back to HCl would just add inaccuracy and is unnecessary.  This means when you have a lab test cocaine the maximum percentage of purity they will return is 89% (304gm/mol / 340 gm/mol).  This is true from their point of view, you gave them cocaine-hcl and you they told you that it was 89% "cocaine [base]".  That's why I refused to post purity numbers on the coke I sell (besides not having tested it) - people claim "94% pure" which really just means they're full of crap.     This idea carries to heroin too, if you take #4 and test it for puritty he lab will return a figure based on the weight of the freebase which is lighter, just gotta keep that in mind.

2) if my research is right diacetylmorphine base ("#3") weighs 369 gm/mol and the hcl derivitive weighs 405 gm/mol. That means if you took 1gm of pure diacetylmorphine base and acidified it you would have 1.09gm.  This is important to understand because.. for some freaking reason people charge more for #4 than #3, which in a way is charging for lemon juice.



I mentioned purifiation.  Purification goes like this:



note: henceforth "morphine" not "diacetylmorphine" because it gets old typing that out.

1) take your #4 and dissolve it in water (oh no it disappears!  don't worry it comes back)
2) remove anything that did not dissolve as it was not morphine hcl (there should not be anything that did not dissolve, this is more of a problem with low end drugs that are cut by idiots, like street coke and street bth)..
3) add ammonia slowly until your morphine precipitates out, watching the ph meter.  When you add a drop of ammonia the ph will change. ph is essentially the measure of free hydrogen.  As you stir morphine freebase will drop out of suspension, becoming a solid in the water since it's not water soluble.  Keep adding ammonia one drop at a time until the ph stops going to center, which will be an indication that you have no more morphine to remove.

NOTE:  Everything in the water is water soluble because you removed it after step 2, but not everything is morphine.
NOTE #2: The stuff that precipitated out is what you awnt, but it's not not guaranteed to be morphine (it's not even guaranteed to be an alkaloid), however any morphine you started with is in there somewhere.
NOTE #3: Whatever did not precipitate out and is still in solution in the water is guaranteed to NOT be morphine at this point, so you want to discard that. 

4) remove the stuff that dissolved from the water using a filter.  You can get this at a chemistry supply store, there are different types of filters, for this purpose you want a high flow filter not a qualitative filter. The pro chem stuff works great because it was designed to, but honestly a coffee filter will do the job.

filtering is slow, you can filter faster by decanting, which basically means to use an eye dropper to either filter out the stuff which is obviously water, or to suck up the stuff which is mostly heroin - once you separate "most" of the water filtering becomes easier.

5) "Realize" (as Ali G says), now you have removed everything except stuff that:
   a) was originally water soluble
   b) can exist in both a base and a salt derivitive
   this means you have already removed a lot of stuff from your dirty mix.

6) next filter the heroin through a mix of ether and water (almost all ether)

It will be solid in the water and go in to suspension in the ether.   Anything which is solid is not an alkaloid, remove it.
The stuff that dissolved in to the ether is probably an alkaloid (and since it's unlikely that your drugs were cut with other drugs, this means the moprhine you want) - i'm not sure that non-alkaloids cannot dissolve in to ether, but that's the idea.  I'd venture a guess that this is mostly true.


7) evaporate the ether

you now have a solid that is probably pure freebase morphine.  Weight it.  This is your purity as a lab would present.  add 9% to this to get the percenage of your #4 which was morphine

9) convert ti back to #4 by putting it in a glass of water and adding a bit of muratic acid. 
same precautions as before with the pH meter and stirring just in reverse.  When it all disappears you can stop

10) evaporate the water

You now have highly pure diacetylmorphine.  Be careful, this is 3x as potent as the #4 you buy on SR and a hell of a lot more potent than what you'll find on the street.


The process listed above works for all alkaloids.  You can clean up coke with it for example - in fact, maybe the coke guys will find this and copy it, feel free to post a link to this if anybody is interested, earlier today a guy was trying to measure purity by exploiting the soluability characteristcs of coke in low water acetone and chloroform.  I think that guy got the idea from the sme place I did, the soluability chart from "the cocaine handbook" written back in the 80s.  If so then this process is more precise.