Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: jethro420247 on August 20, 2013, 05:32 pm
-
No shield from forced exposure': Groklaw website shuts down over NSA spying
Published time: August 20, 2013 16:10
Edited time: August 20, 2013 17:09
Get short URL
AFP Photo / Mehdi Fedouach
Tags
Information Technology, Intelligence, Internet, Law, SciTech, USA
Groklaw, a legal news site that has won numerous awards for its courtroom coverage of tech issues during the last decade, is shutting down in the wake of revelations about the lack of online privacy.
In a farewell post published on Groklaw.net early Tuesday, paralegal and founder Pamela Jones wrote that she will no longer update her site following the recent high-profile disclosures about digital surveillance programs operated by the United States government and other nations abroad.
“[T]he conclusion I've reached is that there is no way to continue doing Groklaw, not long term, which is incredibly sad. But it's good to be realistic,” she wrote.
Jones said Tuesday that the recent shuttering of encrypted email provider Lavabit over surveillance woes put her over the edge with regards to whether or not she should continue publishing her site in the wake of leaked National Security Agency documents detailing vast-reaching spy programs that collect the emails entering and exiting the US.
“The owner of Lavabit tells us that he's stopped using email and if we knew what he knew, we'd stop too,” Jones wrote. “There is no way to do Groklaw without email. Therein lies the conundrum.”
“And the simple truth is, no matter how good the motives might be for collecting and screening everything we say to one another, and no matter how ‘clean’ we all are ourselves from the standpoint of the screeners, I don't know how to function in such an atmosphere. I don't know how to do Groklaw like this,” she added.
Forced Exposure ~pj --- This is the last Groklaw article. Thank you for all you've done. I will never forget you and our work together.
— Groklaw (@Groklaw) August 20, 2013
"There is now no shield from forced exposure," she wrote.
Citing leaked NSA documents describing how any email intended or sent from a non-US person can be retained for years — as well as any correspondence encrypted for security — Jones wrote that she no longer feels comfortable running a site where she suspects her communications with an international audience can legally be intercepted by the US government.
“I'm just an ordinary person. But I really know, after all my research and some serious thinking things through, that I can't stay online personally without losing my humanness, now that I know that ensuring privacy online is impossible,” she said.
“[F]or me, the Internet is over.”
Jones’ decision comes less than two weeks after Lavabit owner Ladar Levison announced he’d be shutting down his email service after more than nine years. “I have been forced to make a difficult decision: to become complicit in crimes against the American people or walk away from nearly ten years of hard work by shutting down Lavabit,” he wrote on his website. In an interview with RT, Levison made further comments suggesting that he was asked by investigators to provide the government with access to private emails or risk prosecution.
“Our government can order us to do things that are morally and ethically wrong, order us to spy on other Americans and then order us — using the threat of imprisonment — to keep it all secret,” he told RT.
Hours after Lavabit closed down abruptly, competitor Silent Circle said they’d be taking their secure email service offline as well after seeing “the writing on the wall.” Now only days down the road, another site has pulled the plug not over fears it will be asked to compromise the privacy of its customers, but because that sense of security is largely already absent.
“Another site,” tweeted Cato Institute fellow Julian Sanchez, “decides it's not worth being online if there's no real privacy.”
-
She should run a hidden service. ;)
It isn't perfect, but we can make the NSA's job harder.
-
This is incredibly disheartening, but I wonder if they didn't jump the gun. I mean, it looks like they gave up without a fight, fer chrissake!
-
I feel like this is the beginning of a revolution of sorts. It might not be totalitarian in nature, but I have a feeling this is not the end of these types of stories. As more and more dominoes fall, the regular citizen has to recognize it, right?? Or is the "it doesn't matter if I don't have anything to hide" mindset too widespread these days? I even had a buddy of mine that I consider like-minded and very much a free thinker say to me that it didn't matter because he didn't have the energy to do anything about it. I about died...I told him it was our job to make sure our less than aware friends knew the bullshit that was happening. His response? "Meh, like they care". Blew me away when someone like him is ok with this NSA shit happening.
-
I feel like this is the beginning of a revolution of sorts. It might not be totalitarian in nature, but I have a feeling this is not the end of these types of stories. As more and more dominoes fall, the regular citizen has to recognize it, right?? Or is the "it doesn't matter if I don't have anything to hide" mindset too widespread these days? I even had a buddy of mine that I consider like-minded and very much a free thinker say to me that it didn't matter because he didn't have the energy to do anything about it. I about died...I told him it was our job to make sure our less than aware friends knew the bullshit that was happening. His response? "Meh, like they care". Blew me away when someone like him is ok with this NSA shit happening.
It's that terrible attitude of resignation (mixed with too much laziness and conformism) that can lead to the death of freedom. Remember in Nazi Germany: "...and when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up".
-
This sort of apathy is what has been in the works for years. There are so many points to make it would take forever to explain how I truly feel about the evolution of oppression in America. Once the human populace feels powerless against oppression and humbly takes their whipping then the government has a much easier transition to totalitarianism. It's happened throughout history all across the globe. I say we look to the recent uprisings for inspiration when we begin to lose faith in our own personal freedom. Protest. March. Picket. If more people were actually involved and didn't back down then the government wouldn't feel it stood a chance against it's citizens. We are NOT the minority here and sadly peaceful protest will have to give way to more direct action.
-
It makes me wonder how secure our programs really are.. I know we are not the ONLY ones that know about programs like tails, TBB, and other things... so why wouldn't they use something like that unless there was a flaw..However DPR is still out there doing his thing, so something must be working right on our end.. hmmm...... I wish I had the skills that some of you possess when it comes to computers and such.
Ryno
-
I feel like this is the beginning of a revolution of sorts. It might not be totalitarian in nature, but I have a feeling this is not the end of these types of stories. As more and more dominoes fall, the regular citizen has to recognize it, right?? Or is the "it doesn't matter if I don't have anything to hide" mindset too widespread these days? I even had a buddy of mine that I consider like-minded and very much a free thinker say to me that it didn't matter because he didn't have the energy to do anything about it. I about died...I told him it was our job to make sure our less than aware friends knew the bullshit that was happening. His response? "Meh, like they care". Blew me away when someone like him is ok with this NSA shit happening.
Not just does it seem like authoritarianism is progressing, but it seems like it's actually speeding up. The rate at which people are being awakened is also speeding up as well. Unfortunately if we look back at history it seems that where these two forces eventually intersect there will be violence. There already is violence but we're going to see more of a domestic / civil (meaning within our own country if you live in the USA) violence.
-
Great points guys. I think the problem is the daily struggle in this economy. Most of the people that have the time to protest/march/gather, rely on the government for their food, etc so it's like biting the hand that feeds them in their eyes. The other people that have time are generally financially independent and either don't care or are part of the driving force for the totalitarian movement for a global government.
-
I'd like to hear more evidence of a totalitarian movement to global government, Mucho. Maybe a corporate government state. But your point is well made.
This is just so disappointing. And I talk to a lot of people who are more or less resigned, and don't even find it to be objectionable.
-
Great points guys. I think the problem is the daily struggle in this economy. Most of the people that have the time to protest/march/gather, rely on the government for their food, etc so it's like biting the hand that feeds them in their eyes. The other people that have time are generally financially independent and either don't care or are part of the driving force for the totalitarian movement for a global government.
I think the trend I've noticed is a when unemployment is high and people give up on finding a job, they often take to the streets. I feel like protests in the US also don't get as big as other places because the country is so spread out. LA, Chicago, NY, and DC can have some decent sized protests but you have to wonder what it'd be like if the US were geographically much smaller and you only had to go a hundred miles to join a protest.
-
STAND AND FIGHT!!!!
Or get on your knees and guzzle the government's cum.
The choice is yours.
-
Great points guys. I think the problem is the daily struggle in this economy. Most of the people that have the time to protest/march/gather, rely on the government for their food, etc so it's like biting the hand that feeds them in their eyes. The other people that have time are generally financially independent and either don't care or are part of the driving force for the totalitarian movement for a global government.
I think the trend I've noticed is a when unemployment is high and people give up on finding a job, they often take to the streets. I feel like protests in the US also don't get as big as other places because the country is so spread out. LA, Chicago, NY, and DC can have some decent sized protests but you have to wonder what it'd be like if the US were geographically much smaller and you only had to go a hundred miles to join a protest.
While geography plays a part, what is more to the point, I think, is cultural. Americans just don't have a culture of street protest, to the same extent as you would see in France or Greece, to name just two examples. In France, people will take to the streets at the drop of a hat.
Nightcrawler
4096R/BBF7433B 2012-09-22 Nightcrawler <Nightcrawler@SR>
PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB8F1D88EBBF7433B (MIT clearnet keyserver)
PGP Key: https://keys.indymedia.org/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB8F1D88EBBF7433B (IndyMedia https: clearnet keyserver)
PGP Key: http://qtt2yl5jocgrk7nu.onion/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB8F1D88EBBF7433B (IndyMedia .onion keyserver)
PGP Key: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=174.msg633090#msg633090 (Silk Road Forums PGP Key Link)
PGP Key Fingerprint = 83F8 CAF8 7B73 C3C7 8D07 B66B AFC8 CE71 D9AF D2F0
-
I think the US did have a protest culture at one time. It would take something jarring—I don't know what—to wake Americans up again. Winston Churchill once said that you can always could on Americans to do the right thing—after they've tried everything else. : )
-
I think the US did have a protest culture at one time. It would take something jarring—I don't know what—to wake Americans up again. Winston Churchill once said that you can always could on Americans to do the right thing—after they've tried everything else. : )
He was right, but then again, he was a war criminal, so...
-
I feel like this is the beginning of a revolution of sorts. It might not be totalitarian in nature, but I have a feeling this is not the end of these types of stories. As more and more dominoes fall, the regular citizen has to recognize it, right?? Or is the "it doesn't matter if I don't have anything to hide" mindset too widespread these days? I even had a buddy of mine that I consider like-minded and very much a free thinker say to me that it didn't matter because he didn't have the energy to do anything about it. I about died...I told him it was our job to make sure our less than aware friends knew the bullshit that was happening. His response? "Meh, like they care". Blew me away when someone like him is ok with this NSA shit happening.
The last security now podcast brought up a few interesting tidbits.
ALL THESE LINKS ARE CLEARNET LINKS (so I don't have to prefix each one)
src: https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-418.htm
First is about David Miranda who is an assistant to Mark Greenwald. He was detained at an airport I believe returning to meet up with Greenwald, I don't remember. The full story is at http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-schedule7-danger-reporters but this section stood out
That work is immensely complicated by the certainty that it would be highly unadvisable for Greenwald (or any other journalist) to regard any electronic means of communication as safe. The Guardian's work on the Snowden story has involved many individuals taking a huge number of flights in order to have face-to-face meetings. Not good for the environment, but increasingly the only way to operate. Soon we will be back to pen and paper.
and this next one from steve gibson pretty much echos what people here have said:
Steve: There will be. You heard it here. I mean, we technologists, the people who get technology and the Internet, are not without recourse. There will be - it's going to take months because these things take months to happen. There will be a technological response that none of these agencies will view positively as a consequence, more than anything, of the fact of this kind of action and that they lie. We cannot have, in a democracy, we cannot have our government lying to us.
Now, I've been listening to these security now podcasts since day 1 and anyone else who has knows Gibson can get a little excited over things but the tone of his voice when saying this shows it's something he's not so much predicting as in telling the millions of people that listen to this podcast to do something.
BTW it is a good podcast if interested in security. I think bitmessage is going to be a topic within the next few weeks. https://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm has transcripts to all of them and low quality audio and then http://twit.tv/sn has audio and video links