Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: hotcrossbuns on July 28, 2013, 03:36 pm
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I have been offered a job exchanging BTC,
basically the work is flipping easy and I get 10% of everything made.
I wont go into detail of the work as LE doesnt pay me to do their job.
But basically the risk would be that I would have a lot of money going into
and out of my account, up to £5,000 a week, which I would get 10% off.
I am a student with a wack minimum wage job which I get paid for in cash.
I would have to lie to the bank and say some reason why I have this much
dosh flying in and out.
Bad idea? What would you do? If anyone does anything similar then PM me
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Fuck. That.
I would never do that, because nothing you say will make it sound plausible. "Yeah... I was busting tables, making like $10/hr, but I got a promotion, I'm a manager now so I get $5000/wk." You're going to have to account for $260,000 a year. Most full grown adults don't make that much, let alone a student out of the middle of nowhere making that much.
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i second what thurgood said.
of course it could work out, but the chances are small and i think if you do it you will be the end/beginning of a papertrail that leads to multiple busts.
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it would be a whole lot smarter for you if you could set up a company that supposedly generates that revenue - as a student, it's going to be hard to explain how it is that you're depositing large sums of cash - banks are not stupid, and they're bound by law to report suspicious activity. Don't know where you're located, but here in the US, when you open a business acct, there's a box to check, asking if in the nature of your business you transfer money as a primary activity of the enterprise
Best bet or my suggestion would be to incorporate (you can do it online for $300 approx), and masquarade as a promotions company, ie you put on charitable benefits. You're going to have to get a business license to open a bank acct in a business name (here in my state about $35 the first year, but then you have to pay taxes (3.1% on total revenue at the end of the year when you file for your next year's business license). YOu'll also want to set up some paper to make it look legit, maybe a website, - a lot of ticket sales are still cash at the event, but even as that, it'd be hard to explain weekly deposits. As far as paperwork, maybe create some professional looking paperwork (flyers) that you supposedly mail to prospective clients like charities in the next example - a promoter friend of mine used to put on charity benefits for anybody he could get a hook into, ie the Fraternal Order of Police, the Fireman's Survivor's fund, Sheltering Arms Hospital - his approach was that he would offer them or they'd get 6% of the profit from the event, usually a concert (key word here is profit) if they would let him use their name in selling the Joan Fontaine, Robin Williams concert or event the circus event coming to town. Tickets would be sold under the guise they were charity and therefore deductible. Now back to that key word: he'd screw them (his words) in 2 or 3 ways.
1) the contract would 6% of the profit - the profit would be whittled down by "advertising contracts" he'd sign with outside companies which were really his companies he'd set up independent of his operation - and he'd pad the expenses in a lot of other ways. The charities, having been screwed in the past, i suspect knew the con, so there was usually a guaranteed minimum to them, maybe $6,000.
On the other side, he'd screw the performer - he'd usually get performers that were past their prime, still trying to make a living. He brought in Joan Fontaine (suspect most of you guys have never heard of her) but in the contract with her agent, it'd be specified she'd get 20% of the "seated" tickets. Now that seated part is the important part. He had a boiler room (phone banks of kids calling every number in the phone book. They'd get 10-12 cents a phone call + a small percentage of the sale of the tickets they'd sell. Most folks buying would be buying in the interest of charity, ie sheltering arms hospital or whatever, with no intention of attending the concert or circus - so that was how he screwed the performer.
Then he'd screw the IRS - those kids he was paying 12 cents a call - he'd put 2 cents into their retirement pension - problem was they'd never stick around more than 5-6 weeks, and never know or think to ask for their pension payout. So that fund was building - at the time i knew him, he had over $250K in it. Under the law he couldn't spend that money, but as the pension fund director he could lend it out - and he would, either directly to himself or to one of his independent companies - now here's the kicker - there was no penalty if his borrower defaulted on the low interest loan the pension fund had made them. So that was how he got the money out of the pension fund without any violations.
His true sales though were to businesses, ie small dry cleaners, stores whoever, that he would offer bundles of tickets at vastly reducedd prices (let's say the tickets retailed for $6 over the phone individually, he'd offer them to stores in blocks of 100 or more, priced as low as $2, that they could use in promotions in the stores, or advertised sales as giveaways - and at the same time the store would get the "deduction" for the charitable contribution or just expense as advertising. He had a 2nd boiler room of more intelligent, capable kids in that room, working the phone lines
it really was a workable proposition - then the state tightened it's regs and he shut down and retired to the caribean at the age of 35
anyway, maybe the above helps - offered only as a suggestion but if you do decide to take the offer, make sure you've got a good cover for the income and can "sell" that cover to the bank, otherwise be prepared to have your college studies disrupted for a few years while you're sitting the graybar hotel
but back to your point,, check the linked stories below about Dwolla getting nailed by DHS for failing to register as a money transferor. even if you're UK based, i'd suspect UK has similiar regs.
fwiw
http://contrariancompliance.com/2013/05/16/dwolla-account-seizure-reveals-mt-gox-on-brink-of-us-indictment/
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/05/14/2115245/dhs-shuts-down-dwolla-payments-to-and-from-mt-gox
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I don't know how to help you but read into it and come up with a plan before you dive in.
Good Luck
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Yeah, I am UK based. I was thinking I would set up an account and register as a trader of Bitcoins, not try and hide that fact, but make it look more legit. I am meeting someone who has an info pack for me, so will have a look at his suggestions.
Thanks for all your replies I will have a look at the articles tbart. That sounded like one clever scam, careful how much info you put up I don't know if you going to give away all your friends hard earned tricks ..
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the bitcoin one might worry me some - might give them a cause to be suspicious, bitcoins are, after all, awfully popular with the illegal culture (in their eyes)
another thought for a cover - possibly, as a collector / trader of old collectible comic books. Your parents just bought a house from a friend's estate that you found cases of old comic books and it's proven to be a helluva starting point, and you travel to various shows around Uk and EU on weekends
or another - you organize weekend partys at school, or are the one responsible for your fraternity, and that cover would help explain the cash going back out soon after depositing (which i assume your employer will want
bands, caterers all want to be paid in cash, seems they've had problems with college frats or social organizations paying by check --
damn, i'm going to pat myself on the back for that one lol
worth a try -
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Not worth it IMO because if you're still in school having 5K pass thru each week, most likely HM Revenue and Customs will sniff you out.... and that will be a stone in your shoe for the rest of your life.
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Have you considered the fact that the vendor paying you for your service is comfortable selling drugs, but decidedly NOT OK with doing himself what he is paying you to do? You'll be laundering (at least by the US definition) drug money without even the slightest pretense of legitimacy. This is a Bad Idea.
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The vender in question has a few team of people doing this, I would be a small part of a much larger organized group.
I am still a student, but a mature one with a periovous employment record but not loads in income.
I thinking that I will find out the success rate of the rest of the team etc.
But yeah it sounds pretty stupid. I might do it on a smaller scale and put down my income as a free-lance worker of some kind, which would mean I would have to pay tax.. :(
This could actually end of being a lot of work...
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I have been offered a job exchanging BTC,
basically the work is flipping easy and I get 10% of everything made.
I wont go into detail of the work as LE doesnt pay me to do their job.
But basically the risk would be that I would have a lot of money going into
and out of my account, up to £5,000 a week, which I would get 10% off.
I am a student with a wack minimum wage job which I get paid for in cash.
I would have to lie to the bank and say some reason why I have this much
dosh flying in and out.
Bad idea? What would you do? If anyone does anything similar then PM me
Interesting. I would characterize this as the latest incarnation of the "money mule" racket.
Almost everyone has received unsolicited emails offering "jobs" which involve "accepting payments for our customers". People are told that the work only requires a few hours a day, is very easy, and requires no special knowledge. You provide your "employers" with a bank account number, and they have funds transferred into your account. Typically, you withdraw 90%, keeping 10% for yourself, and wire the money via Western Union to some addresses in Belarus or the Ukraine.
The problems for you start when the authorities come knocking on your door -- if you're very lucky, they may not press charges, but if they do....
Basically the same thing is happening in both scenarios: you are assuming almost 100% of the risk, for a mere 10% of the take; you're helping the other guy get off scot-free, with the bulk of the money, while you're assuming a substantial portion of the risk for little return.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't walk away, I'd run.
Nightcrawler
4096R/BBF7433B 2012-09-22 Nightcrawler <Nightcrawler@SR>
PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB8F1D88EBBF7433B (MIT clearnet keyserver)
PGP Key: https://keys.indymedia.org/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB8F1D88EBBF7433B (IndyMedia https: clearnet keyserver)
PGP Key: http://qtt2yl5jocgrk7nu.onion/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB8F1D88EBBF7433B (IndyMedia .onion keyserver)
PGP Key: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=174.msg633090#msg633090 (Silk Road Forums PGP Key Link)
PGP Key Fingerprint = 83F8 CAF8 7B73 C3C7 8D07 B66B AFC8 CE71 D9AF D2F0
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Two words,
Hell no.
You will end up cashing out vendors, cashing out coins that were payments for various illegal goods and services and cashing out vast amounts of dirty dirty coins. Everything will pile up on YOU.
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It would be a seriously bad idea for you to try this. Leave this kind of thing to the professionals unless you want specialist financial investigation teams on you and having all your assets seized.
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u have already spoken too much about it here to be safe doing it.
let us know how it works out - sounds like u have ur mind made up :P
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If you're talking about £5,000 a week going in and out of your BANK ACCOUNT, then you're fucking toast. They'll put this together with their eyes closed. You don't have RICO over there, but they still can and will seize all your cash. Banking privacy went out the window like 20 years ago. So did most property rights. In many cases money will be seized without a court order or any evidence of any kind. YOU have to prove that the money is rightfully yours. You're guilty until proven innocent as far as money is concerned. No different from North Korea or any number of other backward countries. Just another casualty of our beloved War On Drugs.
I have been offered a job exchanging BTC,
basically the work is flipping easy and I get 10% of everything made.
I wont go into detail of the work as LE doesnt pay me to do their job.
But basically the risk would be that I would have a lot of money going into
and out of my account, up to £5,000 a week, which I would get 10% off.
I am a student with a wack minimum wage job which I get paid for in cash.
I would have to lie to the bank and say some reason why I have this much
dosh flying in and out.
Bad idea? What would you do? If anyone does anything similar then PM me
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^
Over here and in pretty much every other country in the world it is called Joint Enterprise. Your point is true however, HMRC can audit you at any time for no reason whatsoever and if you can't explain the funds going in/out of your account, they can seize all your assets under The Proceeds of Crime Act.
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Be honest with yourself - you have no idea what you are doing, so you should not be considering doing this.
It also makes you wonder about the individual that made the offer.
This whole thing is wrong. Keep your head down and keep moving.
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Be honest with yourself - you have no idea what you are doing, so you should not be considering doing this.
It also makes you wonder about the individual that made the offer.
This whole thing is wrong. Keep your head down and keep moving.
Exactly. The person who offered it is trying to find some poor sap that will fall for the bait. Don't be that poor sap.
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If I understand correctly:
You accept btc from someone to sell for cash, bank transfer, paypal, WU, or whatever and however you choose. Then you transfer 90% of the money you make back to this person.
Two questions. Has your "employer" instructed you on the method you should accept for selling bitcoins? And has he instructed you on the method he would like to be paid? i.e. Can banks be avoided or do they come into the picture somehow?
1. You could buy items with the btc and sell them on ebay.
2. You could try to legitimately sell the bitcoins by becoming a certified bitcoin exchanger. This would require that you apply for a business account at a bank.
If number 2 then if you go to this trouble become your own boss and invest in your own bitcoins with your clean money. You can easily make back 10% on your own without bringing in any risk whatsoever.
Become a business man and earn a shit ton in your lifetime if you want. But I wouldn't start your career early by using drug money.
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I can't answer all the questions, but I'm feeling the vibe is I would be a pretty stupid to do this
in its current form.
It was not a reply to a random email, someone look for a sap. No one is stupid enough to send
me a load of money and expect me to give them back in a clean form if it wasn't a more substantial
relationship. However I obviously would want to distance myself from the seller in any other form.
My main question was if I did this but in a small way, how much do you think I could move in and out
of my account before suspicion would be raised? At the moment I have only about £18,000 ($30,000ish) per year
going in and out.
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My main question was if I did this but in a small way, how much do you think I could move in and out
of my account before suspicion would be raised? At the moment I have only about £18,000 ($30,000ish) per year
going in and out.
Anything under the tax limit, at a guess £24,000. Anything over this and it's more than the bank that you worry about but the revenue.
Be safe.
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you'll get busted for sure.
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The question is what method of payment are you going to be receiving, you could start a cash in the mail type deal using the website (localbitcoins.com). Plenty of people use that type of payment method but my advice would be to stay as far away from your bank account as possible/only use it for some transactions.
But hey, what do i know :P just my 2 cents