Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: firehawk on January 01, 2013, 08:23 am
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So I haven't posted much lately, It's a busy time of year and I've also been quite deep in the K-hole for a large amount of time thanks to SR and some of the lovely people on it.
Anyway I've been pondering about what would happen if the police became involved in my 'business' of ordering drugs off SR, taking them in my home and enjoying myself.
The conclusion I came to, is that not very much would happen at all.
I order significant quantities of drugs for my personal use, but I don't give them to others and I certainly don't re-sell them. I'm an otherwise upstanding citizen with no criminal record and (sorry if I'm being immodest) I'm actually quite a productive member of society.
The police--in my experience--are interested in 'criminals' (i.e. people who harm others, have no appreciable benefit to society and are generally irritating/painful people to be around for others).
If somehow the police became interested and aware of my activities, I certainly don't see that sending even two uniformed officers around to my house to ask me to knock it off is in the public interest (besides without a warrant I wouldn't answer the door). Organising an investigation extensive enough to lead to a raid on my house (where they may find some drugs that I use myself and paraphernalia--or they may not) is definitely not what the police are about.
If, for whatever reason the police kick in the door and find my drugs, they would take them as evidence and decide whether or not to press charges. Given the worst thing that I've done is take drugs, I doubt that would happen, and if it did you would be unlucky to find a judge (where I live) who would give you any real penalty for it. Maybe a drug diversion program... Even then with a decent lawyer and a sensible defendent (i.e. you or me, say nothing without a lawyer and don't give the police information they don't have) the case would likely never get to court.
On the other hand, if you're making a lot of money selling drugs off SR and are not careful about it, the police may see that as benefiting from crime and do something about it.
Essentially my point is, if you're careful and you just use SR to buy drugs to use yourself and not bother anyone else, you have very little to be worried about from law enforcement officers.
Interested to hear other's opinions on this.
Hope it can re-assure anyone who's nervous about a SWAT team lining up at their front door after picking up a gram of marijuana from their letter-box :)
(this stuff appplies where I live, where you live it may be different)
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Love your work, firehawk.
I've come to pretty similar conclusions, and I think I'm in the same demographic you've described.
But I'll still keep myself as secure as possible and avoid taking unnecessary risks.
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You forgot just one little point -
You ARE a criminal - cause you are BREAKING THE LAW by shipping (or importing), possessing and using forbidden drugs.
So you might not be a high priority criminal - but keep that in mind that there are reasons why the police would want to mess with you
- scare others
- try to get to vendors
- the have to act if they found something etc..
- have nothing better to do at this moment
the facts are that users DO get prosecuted, so i would still be careful.
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You forgot just one little point -
You ARE a criminal - cause you are BREAKING THE LAW by shipping (or importing), possessing and using forbidden drugs.
So you might not be a high priority criminal - but keep that in mind that there are reasons why the police would want to mess with you
- scare others
- try to get to vendors
- the have to act if they found something etc..
- have nothing better to do at this moment
the facts are that users DO get prosecuted, so i would still be careful.
That's very true in that what I do fits the legal definition of a crime.
I am in no way suggesting people call the local LEO and let them know that their next shipment is on the way and dare the LEO's to do something about it. Because, something silly like that might lead to you being in a spot of bother.
I think you will find, that unless I'm mistaken, people who end up in trouble for possession of drugs came to police attention through things like driving erratically, making lots of noise in their house (and bothering others with it), stealing things to support their habit, or pissing someone else off enough so that person reports their drug possession to the police (and the police take the report seriously and bother to expend the effort to do something about it).
For example, if I have a loud house party with lines of coke racked up on my dining table for my guests and it bothers my neighbors enough that they call the police, the police have the time and inclination to attend, and then I suffer an acute episode of stupidity and allow them into my house without a warrant... Then I may have a problem on my hands. At the same time however, if I decline politely to answer any questions, get a lawyer and comply with whatever else the police ask of me, then I probably don't have a *huge* problem on my hands--i.e. I'm not going to jail or losing my job.
But if I'm not bothering anyone and I'm sensible, I feel that I have nothing to worry about.
Valid points from you, also :)
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In all honesty, this shit about illigal drugs make me sick. For EX: Is anybody doing anything about incense,plant feeder pills, and bathsalts. These MFUCKERS are ripping off people because people can't get real drugs.(that shit is legal). I tried incense- fucked me up legal rather have weed, were to get it. Tried Bath salts what the fuck is that-fucked me up worse than coke. Plant feeder pills worse than E took 500 mg of that some make you feel like ex, some like speed, some hellucitane, lists goes on and on. All thos Plant feeder pills have a difffrent effects that mimic all the drugs that are illigal.
Cmon man I mean this is the same shit. That mimic shit kills people. Real drugs not really unless you really abuse bad at one time. I'm going to fuckin sleep, HAPPY NEW YEARSSSSSSSSSSS.
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In all honesty, this shit about illigal drugs make me sick. For EX: Is anybody doing anything about incense,plant feeder pills, and bathsalts. These MFUCKERS are ripping off people because people can't get real drugs.(that shit is legal). I tried incense- fucked me up legal rather have weed, were to get it. Tried Bath salts what the fuck is that-fucked me up worse than coke. Plant feeder pills worse than E took 500 mg of that some make you feel like ex, some like speed, some hellucitane, lists goes on and on. All thos Plant feeder pills have a difffrent effects that mimic all the drugs that are illigal.
Cmon man I mean this is the same shit. That mimic shit kills people. Real drugs not really unless you really abuse bad at one time. I'm going to fuckin sleep, HAPPY NEW YEARSSSSSSSSSSS.
I assume the worst and that all cops are parasites.
Bath Salts are MDPV most of the time and as such should be treated and dosed accordingly. The problem with many products like this is retards, particularly like the trailer park trash guy on YouTube who took too much, is they are searching for effects off these substances that are simply unobtainable with the compounds in question, so they keep taking more and more and more. Then that, coupled with the fact they're cheap and plentiful, means fucktards think this is indicative of their safety profile.
The fact is any substance, whether it's water or bath salts, consumed in excessive quantities without giving your body time to process it, is going to cause you harm or potentially death.
The vast majority though should not be punished for the actions of a few, as this is the polar opposite of what democracy looks like.
They will treat you as bad as they do anyone else. to get that extra notch on their belt or merely to flatter their overinflated ego's
I suggest you watch the video by LEAP on YouTube and see for yourself what government agencies make their police officers do to ordinary decent young people having fun, let alone some middle aged drug user who's imported contraban from exotic locales throughout the globe.
Anything over a couple of grams is intent to distribute in just about any developed country in the world, so if you insist on ordering weight, you would want a relatively fool proof method of having your product sent to you.
Government intervention should only occur after an evaluation has occurred as would be the case for any mentally unstable individuals and they should have their license to buy drugs revoked.
If we brought in a licensing system similar to gun or drivers licenses that kept them out of the hands of the mentally and morally deficient individuals as well as minors, I think most of us would be more than happy to participate in such a scheme.
It's ironic that during prohibition of alcohol there were more Speak Easies in New York than there are today than Bars and Clubs according to Penn & Teller's research department. The same could be said for SR vendors and drug dealers in general, there would be nowhere near as many if people could simply go to the local chemist and get there 'script', yet the continue to prosecute the drug war without realising they continue to inflate the problem along with the cost to society in both health and taking money away from valuable resources to throw harmless people in jail. Meanwhile opium production in Afghanistan all goes to the black market because the US grows it's opium in Turkey (even though it's obvious who owns Afghanistan) and at least Australia grows ours in Tasmania but we could plant more crops like sassafras there and import it from Afghanistan for cheaper.
I watched a JourneymanPictures documentary on YouTube about Khun Sa who was the guy who Denzel Washington bought his heroin off in that movie, and he offered to sell the US government his entire opium crop for 40million to do with as they pleased and they would have no heroin problem because at that time he ran the trade, and they said no. The main problem I see with the drug wars end is all the money involved in keeping the current system in place. When you have private prisons lobbying governments for longer minimum mandatories for anything and everything, you know we have a society that is in serious trouble.
We all know they know the truth, but the fact they don't really care about us is much more evident to those who are persecuted. One just needs to look at North Korea to see what people can be reduced to with enough government control and propaganda.. In North Korea they have speakers in their units in Pyongyang that broadcasts government propaganda all day and can only be turned down not off. We think this is horrific yet we fail to realise that our culture is no different whatsoever in regards to this, but instead of an old 70's model intercom speaker we have 250 channels of government propaganda and whether you're watching CNN or playing Battlefield 3, you can be rest assured you're getting subliminally mind fucked the whole time.
To ALL Police and Government 'Officials' we have this to say, STOP PERSECUTING THE INNOCENT, COMMITTING MASS MURDER ON A GLOBAL SCALE AND AT THE SAME TIME FINANCING REAL CRIMINALS CARTELS BY GIVING ADULTS THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE WHAT GOES INTO THEIR BODIES AND WHERE THEY OBTAIN THESE PRODUCTS FOR THEIR PERSONAL CONSUMPTION
*Edit* User BiB's YouTube account name is cindybin2001 folks and you will see her on there carrying on exactly the same way saying exactly the same things
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Hey Firehawk,
I appreciate your post and understand your thinking.
Thought I would share with you, something that happened to me years and years ago, and although I have no idea what country you reside in, I feel the LEO work in roughly the same way...
I too, consider myself a pretty good, invested in the community, tax paying adult who hasn't done much of anything, including re-selling to warrant attention from LE.
It was a typical Saturday night at my flat (not current, nor same city) and a couple of friends and I were waiting for IRL dealer to bring around a shard gram to share, we didn't have music playing and we weren't making enough noise to warrant any issues for neighbors, we were just getting ready for a big night on the town.
Dealer arrived and dropped off the gram, and left, nothing unusual, however I didn't have scales and one friend was being a tight ass about the div - so he took the shard to his flat (which was in the same building) to divide between 4.
Two seconds after he had left there was a bang on the door and it was LE, they didn't have a warrant and claimed that they didn't need one, as they had been following the dealer and under some new law/ suspicion, they were able to temporarily search the premise and didn't require documentation.
The couple of ppl remaining kept our mouths shut and only spoke to insist on calling a lawyer, the LE found nothing (thankfully due to scale issue), and the lawyer that was called, said that the LE claims of being able to search sans warrant was bogus and that LE will try to get as much past you as possible, we were all young and 'clean skins' legally so they knew we knew very little about our rights, the LE left with nothing on us and advised us not to associate with a known to LE dealer.
Now our dealer was small time, the smallest of small time, his supplier was small time and I was shocked that not only had they been keeping him under surveillance (a uni student) following his every movement, and were building a case against him, but they also went to the trouble of "illegally" searching our apartment to make what could only have been a possession charge at best.
I had always thought like you too, I am a professional, I don't sell and I don't cause any drama, well simply put, they don't care. They will bust you given the opportunity, they will go after the smallest of small time dealers and they will go after recreational users.
A salesman doesn't care who he sells his product to so long as it sells and he meets his quota, will LE are meeting quotas as well.
Does that mean I think LE are just waiting to pounce on SR small time users, nah, but do I think if the opportunity presented itself, they will look at your attitude, background, standing int eh community, etc, absolutely not. You will be done and they will lie to you and smudge the law to make it happen.
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Utter nonsense! 99% of the cops only want the success of a bust no matter who YOU are. Maybe the judge will take it into consideration that you are some great person that made an opps little finger in the side of your mouth decision, but don't fool yourself that the busters care about the bustie. If you are LE all you want is the bust and after they get it they don't care two shits for what happens to that person. Don't be NAIVE!
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Firehawk,
No offense, but I truly think this post is an absolutely horrible attitude to have. Attitudes like this create a false sense of security which lead to people half assing things which further lead to increased attention being paid to them and that is when people get arrested. Sure, a cop in NYC likely could give a rats ass about a gram or 2 being received. But a cop in some rural Georgia county may make you a number 1 priority.
I am new here, but I know a thing or two about psychology and crime. People that become nonchalant and develop an attitude of "They are looking for the bigger guy" will take many more risks which is absolutely unnecessary. The only way that people will be kept out of jail is by having the complete opposite attitude you have. I think the right attitude to have is that slight fear that at any time you could be arrested.
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yep as someone else said, to the police and the majority of society you are a criminal, if you were caught with drugs on the street you would be arrested, don't fall into the trap of thinking it's any different online, the police care about one thing, charges,
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Some of the best advice that can be given is: "Know the law in your jurisdiction, and know your rights."
Police absolutely count on people not knowing their rights, and pressuring them into making admissions that will convict them.
They will also bend the law like a pretzel, until the courts finally stop them. Case in point: the law in New York apparently allows personal possession of small amounts of marijuana. How the cops get around this is they will stop a person on the street and order them to "empty your pockets". If someone complies, and a joint is found, then the joint is them deemed to be out in "public" and this no longer qualifies as personal possession, so the person is arrested for possession.
There is no substitute for being careful; there is no substitute for knowing your rights.
NC
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I don't think people should falsely assume that LE aren't interested in them just because they're only occasional users. In a perfect world what people do in their own homes wouldn't even be illegal, but it's a dumb system and caution is always needed. This jerks will raid your home for a gram of weed and lock you up for 5 years without thinking twice about it.
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Cops have a quota to make. To them if you do drugs you are a criminal and they will do their best to arrest you. Please, don't be naive about cops!
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I think everything Firehawk is saying is true, sounds legit. Thanks for the info Firehawk. Feel free always to post more info like this.
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You: "I am under the strict instruction of an attorney not to answer any questions from police."
LE: "Who is this attorney?"
You: "Like I said..."
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Nice post Firehawk.
I dont see why LE would go to the trouble for a very small charge only to have it thrown out in a court.
Its a waste of their time, busting people for a gram or two would not be in their interests.
Like firehawk said, if you are careful and just buying for personal use, clean record, you will be fine.
After all, your only receiving mail. ;)
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It is a curious thing about human nature that everyone thinks they are special... oh, it will never happen to me type thing... rest assured, to LE you are nothing but another scumbag drug user and would be treated as such.
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LE for the most part only goes after low hanging fruit.
Unless you run out into the street and smack a cop in the face with a bag full of heroin and tell them you got it in the mail they're not exactly tracking the hundred thousands of us who keep drug activity off the streets. Hell, the SR it's honestly better in terms of community when it comes to drug crime, it keeps violence out of the game, and in most cases you can rely on the quality of the product more often than street gear. Not having to meet a dealer who may or may not be on watch is safer for your freedom too, because based on statistics from SR users, you're more likely to get in a plane crash than get busted for using the road.
Sure the fed is "interested" in the SR because it's a gigantic drug market they can't control, that is obvious. But what can they do to stop it? It's probably the most well contrived system for making this all work efficiently and securely. Even in street affairs, LE is more or less trying to bust users, to get to the dealers, to get to the middlemen, to get to the chemists/cartels
But if history is teaching us anything, its that the drug war is a lost cause and an expensive one. So think about why LE would bother hunting and sniffing out SR users who keep their drug use pretty well under wraps and dont get involved in any "real" crimes. What kind of crime is it to get high exactly? This coming from the same country that legitimately believed that the color of your skin was a deciding factor on your capabilities in society for over 100 years, and treated people's freedom based on the color of their skin. Just because it's the law, doesn't mean it makes logical sense.
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While OP is correct for the most part, it's worth noting that someone is going to end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. You don't want to be that guy if you are unprepared. Depending on where you are and how badly the cop wants to fuck you, LE will indeed bend the law or outright break it under the right circumstances. It's not exactly common, but it happens often enough to warrant some paranoia, especially given the consequences.
Would you rather learn PGP or get arrested? Even if you don't get a 5 year federal prison term for ordering pot, the experience of being locked up and having it put on your record PERMANENTLY is bad enough. Many people will get probation for a while, and probation sucks, especially federal probation. While it's unlikely that you'll ever get caught ordering small amounts of drugs domestically, taking some basic precautions will limit the damage from LE should they attempt an investigation.
Always PGP your address and any other sensitive info, always access SR from a boot drive i.e. liberte/tails or at least encrypt your hard drive, and don't send drugs to a place full of anything illegal in case the package is discovered. There have been cases where local cops simply broke the door down and searched houses after finding drugs in the mail. If you have an illegal arms stash in your basement or something, every SR order to your house spins the roulette wheel of unfortunate coincidences. If your number comes up one day, you win a lifetime supply of FUCK.
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Come on guys get real, packages that are intercepted are thrown out or stolen, its not worth it to chase up small amounts, LE are after big syndicates importing kilos of drugs, cause that's where the big money is, LE aren't really after buyers, they would be more interested in the sellers, because again, that is where the money is.
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While OP is correct for the most part, it's worth noting that someone is going to end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. You don't want to be that guy if you are unprepared. Depending on where you are and how badly the cop wants to fuck you, LE will indeed bend the law or outright break it under the right circumstances. It's not exactly common, but it happens often enough to warrant some paranoia, especially given the consequences.
Would you rather learn PGP or get arrested? Even if you don't get a 5 year federal prison term for ordering pot, the experience of being locked up and having it put on your record PERMANENTLY is bad enough. Many people will get probation for a while, and probation sucks, especially federal probation. While it's unlikely that you'll ever get caught ordering small amounts of drugs domestically, taking some basic precautions will limit the damage from LE should they attempt an investigation.
Always PGP your address and any other sensitive info, always access SR from a boot drive i.e. liberte/tails or at least encrypt your hard drive, and don't send drugs to a place full of anything illegal in case the package is discovered. There have been cases where local cops simply broke the door down and searched houses after finding drugs in the mail. If you have an illegal arms stash in your basement or something, every SR order to your house spins the roulette wheel of unfortunate coincidences. If your number comes up one day, you win a lifetime supply of FUCK.
I take many precautions so as not to get that kind of lifetime supply. ;D
Good post, I totally agree.
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Living in the UK i doubt the LE here would do much. Our police force are always looking for the big fishes so they leave the little fish alone, I can imagine its much different in America with all of the over-exaggerated punishments you have to endure. Here if the Royal Mail found a suspicious package, It would be left in a room full of other suspicious packages for weeks maybe months, Then if contraband was found they will send you a 'scary' letter (saying its only personal use amount). In the UK you don't have anything to worry about. In the USA personally, You really should watch out you can go to prison for a joint (apparently, Is that true?) But i agree with FH, I doubt LE will be looking for small amounts being transported by UPS etc.... Just enjoy life! ^_^
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I would agree with OP, to an extent.
Keep in mind, the LE agencies from the USA that are currently active on SR are FBI and DEA. I can't make assumptions for other countries given that I am not aware of the LE divisions/duties, but I'm sure there are international LE here as well. Local LE (ie Sheriff or PD) are not going to spend any time on SR. I bet if you go up to a cop on the street and ask him "did you know there is a website that you can buy drugs on?" chances are the cop won't know about SR, and even if you ask him what his department is doing about it, he will tell you "nothing", because SR is out of the jurisdiction of local LE.
So now, we are considering the threat of LE, but more specifically the DEA or FBI. Both of these agencies focus on major criminal organizations and activities. Go watch a few episodes of DEA on Spike TV's website (if they still have it up), it becomes very clear very quickly that the DEA is most concerned with getting to the top of the pyramid.
If I were to list, in order, the targets of the ongoing FBI/DEA investigation, I would imagine they are:
#1 - DPR/SR website itself
#2 - Vendors
#3 - Buyers who are buying in serious bulk (real life drug dealers using SR to source their product)
#4 - Buyers who are buying for personal use ($1000 or less per month)
If you watch some episodes of DEA it reveals their process of dismantling drug organizations to be pretty simple. It starts with a small drug bust; some unfortunate individual in the wrong place at the wrong time OR a tip from an informant about a local dealer. Next, the DEA takes down the small time dealer, usually a guy netting between $1,000 and $5,000 per week dealing drugs, maybe has a few pounds on him, whatever. They sweat the dealer, wave a bunch of prison time in his face, and get him to roll over OR if he doesn't roll, they have various techniques for working up the chain besides sweating him (sweating for info just seems to get the fastest results). They continue this process, taking down dealers and stash houses until eventually they find the kingpin (or not, if the guy at the top is smart enough to see the heat coming).
The point of the paragraph above is to illustrate the process the DEA usually takes for dismantling organized drug trafficking. The problem with applying this strategy to SR is that you cut the technique in half by making all the transactions anonymous. If the DEA takes down somebody for buying a small amount, they have no way of working their way up from there. Their only hope is to take out all the vendors (still incredibly difficult) or to take down DPR/SR itself.
Unfortunately I am not too familiar with the way the FBI operates but I imagine their targets are still in line with the list I put above.
My viewpoint; it's always smart to be safe, so by no means am I encouraging buyers to be free-wheeling about their activities. Use PGP/GPG, be smart, don't talk a lot, and you should be fine as a small-time buyer. Everyone should always be on their toes though, because our alphabet friends are definitely here and they are watching.
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The people agreeing with the original post must not live in the US. Here the cops will kick in your door, grab your wife's tit, beat the shit out of you, shoot your dog, and slap your daughter all because they have the wrong address on the warrant. Them raiding your home for drugs will always result in a drug charge for you at the very least, unless you snitch and even then you will probably get no consideration for it, and being you bought the drugs from an anonymous person you won't even have that ability. Anyways, point being if they come in your home you will be lucky to not have anyone in your family murdered by them, fuck a drug charge, take that with a smile if that's all that happens to you. And that job you have...you won't have it after the system is done fucking up your life.
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here is the thing though, and you only have to look at other embarrassingly long lasting criminal enterprises (torrent sites, prostitution rings, child porn sites) to see this strategy in action, if not always successfully:
If LE can't immediately get to SR, the next strategy is to make a very public example of a bunch of customers. If possible, all at the same time.
The reality is they're going to work on both taking down SR and as a backup, see what they can do about the customers.
If they can turn a vendor, or infiltrate the payment system, they will. The relevant authorities have to show results. If Dread Pirate Roberts doesn't make any mistakes the pressure to show some other kind of result will just keep building.
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+1
All good points smithy
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The people agreeing with the original post must not live in the US.
Here the cops will kick in your door, grab your wife's tit, beat the shit out of you, shoot your dog, and slap your daughter all because they have the wrong address on the warrant.
Them raiding your home for drugs will always result in a drug charge for you at the very least, unless you snitch and even then you will probably get no consideration for it, and being you bought the drugs from an anonymous person you won't even have that ability. Anyways, point being if they come in your home you will be lucky to not have anyone in your family murdered by them, fuck a drug charge, take that with a smile if that's all that happens to you. And that job you have...you won't have it after the system is done fucking up your life.
Sadly, this is actually true in too many cases.
Not to mention, if you ARE a fine, upstanding citizen, you most likely have assets they can seize. and just because you aren't distributing, doesn't mean they won't be able to prove that you are.
And those outside of the US aren't safe, either. Rich, affluent people are a big threat. Look at Emery.
Nice post Firehawk.
I dont see why LE would go to the trouble for a very small charge only to have it thrown out in a court.
Its a waste of their time, busting people for a gram or two would not be in their interests.
Like firehawk said, if you are careful and just buying for personal use, clean record, you will be fine.
After all, your only receiving mail. ;)
Meaning no offense, so please don't take it personally, but posts like this always make me think LE or disinfo:
"It's alright, little froggies, the water is only slowly warming to a nice simmer....then perhaps a boil....then a nice lunch. Nothing to worry about, we have bigger fish to fry."
Private prisons make a KILLING from imprisoning small time drug offenders.
There is no substitute for being careful; there is no substitute for knowing your rights.
NC
Firehawk,
No offense, but I truly think this post is an absolutely horrible attitude to have. Attitudes like this create a false sense of security which lead to people half assing things which further lead to increased attention being paid to them and that is when people get arrested.
The only way that people will be kept out of jail is by having the complete opposite attitude you have. I think the right attitude to have is that slight fear that at any time you could be arrested.
THIS
Utter nonsense! 99% of the cops only want the success of a bust no matter who YOU are. Maybe the judge will take it into consideration that you are some great person that made an opps little finger in the side of your mouth decision, but don't fool yourself that the busters care about the bustie. If you are LE all you want is the bust and after they get it they don't care two shits for what happens to that person. Don't be NAIVE!
A salesman doesn't care who he sells his product to so long as it sells and he meets his quota, will LE are meeting quotas as well.
Does that mean I think LE are just waiting to pounce on SR small time users, nah, but do I think if the opportunity presented itself, they will look at your attitude, background, standing int eh community, etc, absolutely not. You will be done and they will lie to you and smudge the law to make it happen.
You forgot just one little point -
You ARE a criminal - cause you are BREAKING THE LAW by shipping (or importing), possessing and using forbidden drugs.
So you might not be a high priority criminal - but keep that in mind that there are reasons why the police would want to mess with you
- scare others
- try to get to vendors
- the have to act if they found something etc..
- have nothing better to do at this moment
the facts are that users DO get prosecuted, so i would still be careful.
If LE can't immediately get to SR, the next strategy is to make a very public example of a bunch of customers. If possible, all at the same time.
The reality is they're going to work on both taking down SR and as a backup, see what they can do about the customers.
If they can turn a vendor, or infiltrate the payment system, they will. The relevant authorities have to show results. If Dread Pirate Roberts doesn't make any mistakes the pressure to show some other kind of result will just keep building.
THISTHISTHISTHIS
If they can't get DPR or shut the site down, they will go after the slow kids. :/
So much said in this thread bears repeating. +1 when I can.
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You: "I am under the strict instruction of an attorney not to answer any questions from police."
LE: "Who is this attorney?"
You: "Like I said..."
+1 to you K, in the 5 posts that you've made, you've shared some nice info ;)
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Well, I can tell you that the town I used to live in, where I went to school, which is a small NE suburban neighborhood, local cops have told me, 'we know what you do in there. As long as you keep it in there and don't bring it out in the street, we don't care. Just don't make us look bad.' Then again, I went to school with half of the cops on the force there and they know me and know that I am not out to hurt anybody, so they would let me be. The only times I have ever been busted were in the city trying to score. And most of the time it went something like, 'get the fuck out of here....I don't want to see you around here again or I'll take you in, arrest you, and beat the shit out of you.' (Philly cops always were a colorful bunch).
I used to have some wild parties in my old apartment. No one ever complained, so the cops never messed with me. There's no way they couldn't know what was going on.
Where I live now, the cops have bigger things to worry about, including the state police. If you don't flaunt it, and don't get too big, or cause problems, they really won't fuck with you. It may be different in other parts of the country.
I got lots of stories. I could go on all night. But you get the gist of it.
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Some of the best advice that can be given is: "Know the law in your jurisdiction, and know your rights."
Police absolutely count on people not knowing their rights, and pressuring them into making admissions that will convict them.
You are 100% percent correct. A LOT less people would be convicted if they simply just kept their mouth shut.
I was just watching an episode of cops on tv yesterday, they pulled over a lady and when they searched her car they found a bunch of painkillers, needles and some spoons with a white powder residue from the painkillers on them. They asked her if they were hers and she said yes. They asked her if she used the needle and spoon to shoot up painkillers and she said yes. They asked her, do you ever shoot up anything else? And she says, yea cocaine sometimes. So then they used a cocaine field test and tested the white residue on the spoon and it tested positive for trace amounts of cocaine, so then they charge her with cocaine possession also. If she had simple kept her mouth shut they would have never known to test the spoon specifically for cocaine, it was mostly painkiller residue on the spoon. But by talking she gave them more information that led to them being able to add a charge of cocaine possession along with the painkiller and drug paraphernalia charges.
And the whole time the cops were talking to the lady they were being nice and understanding, tell her everything will be alright if she just tells the truth, telling her they want to help her out but they can only do so much if shes not honest. So she gives them more information by telling the truth and bam, just like that they don't even hesitate to stack another felony charge on her.
NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. I don't care if they caught you in the act and you're pretty much fucked because they have so much evidence on you, WAIT UNTIL YOU TALK TO A LAWYER. I don't care if you want to confess because you will get a lighter sentence, WAIT until you talk to a lawyer first. Pretty much almost a 100% percent truth, nobody ever made things worse by keeping their mouth shut, but they can and almost always will make things worse by opening their mouth without seeing a lawyer first. I don't care if you're 30 years old, you've never been arrested before and you're so scared you're shitting you're pants. keep you're mouth shut. Don't listen to the cops lies, threats or anything else. Don't be a dick to the cops, but just say you don't want to talk about anything without seeing a lawyer first.
I know a lot of of people get scared when they get arrested (especially if its their first time) and they talk because they are scared shitless. Its ok to be scared, but always remember to use you're right to remain silent. I'v been arrested a couple times, all for misdemeanors, one was for a felony charge but it got dropped to a misdemeanor later. I haven't been in trouble for at least 8 years. Even so, if I was arrested tomorrow I would still be pretty fucking scared shitless when the cuffs got slapped on me. but I still would not talk without seeing a lawyer first. ALWAYS USE AND REMEMBER YOU'RE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT :)
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Living in the UK i doubt the LE here would do much. Our police force are always looking for the big fishes so they leave the little fish alone,
Lol....this is why I left.
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i think that many members forget that silk road is boundaryless. even though law enforcement is all around us, there are differences in priorities in all cases in all jurisdictions. i doubt very much that DEA from Texas are interested in the same things that European Interpol are; other than international drug distribution. heroin and cocaine have been the two big baddies for the last 30 years.
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Grrrrr - this post and that other fucking fairy-tale, you know the one: "policeman came to my house I offered them tea and cookies and said I was v sowwy and they was like 'ok just tell us about the bad man who sold you the nasty chemicals'" make me so fucking angry.
"Interested in SR But Probably Not You" ...
We are SR! Give those fuckers nothing to go on!
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I hope i'm extremely wrong, But i was talking to a friend about this. I don't think Silk Road will get serious heat until someone(probably a minor) orders something from here and ODs.And then they'll try and see where they got it from, and the minute that SR pops into someone's mouth, The governor from that state will make it his mission to close SR because little tommy ordered something he didn't know much about and used too much of it and died. That's why i hate that someone sells cyanide here.
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How you going to close a ghost?
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DPR is the kigpin, he's the one they want, everyone else is hopefully relatively safe, sorry DPR, you are my hero, and if something, god forbid, ever happened to you, I eoulf fo everything in my power to help you brother! Not just him anybody on SR, if anybody on here got pinched everyone needs to band together to do whatever possible to make things right for the victim. Hopefully, everyone thinks like I do :)
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EDIT - this post has almost made me decide that there should be a "long-form SR opinion" thread, as I doubt most people read this whole thing. I wrote another one about something else too, but haven't posted it yet.
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My god...some of these response frighten me, mostly ones from the US (or what I'm assuming is the US based on dialect). If you're in the UK, or most of the EU - almost everything I'm going to say doesn't apply to you, or applies in "lite" form. Also - I use a lot of run-on type sentences to emphasize certain points...it's because they're important.
So, to preface - I am a moral, honest person, and not a hard drug user (I don't judge meth and crack users, but I would be lying if I said I don't believe their decisions are MUCH different than others). I also am not really a drinker, which again is a major factor in judgment impairment. Blah blah etc etc etc...
The person on the first page who put that people who get busted mainly are those who have certain traits is on the right path, imho, but not entirely right. The people with stories, or advice about what and when to say (referring to "get me my lawyer," or the brick wall pokerface idea people) - I'm going to just guess that <5% have been in jail, interrogated, or in any situation they're advising on. I admit that I haven't - my advice simply comes from being around lawyers of extremely high cost and asking these questions to them.
So, first off - in the US, my pops, who actually is a real life legal-person whose job very much deals with what goes on here, told me a golden rule that is applicable to all people, regardless of how "clever," "honest," or lacking in criminal history you may be:
If they want to fuck you - they will. Don't think that you are any less likely to get fucked with 15 years because you're well to do and it's just a gram of whatever and have no history. The "I want to talk to my lawyer" or self-entrapment shit is exactly that - a lot of shit.
It came in my case because I was the teenage rich kid hustler - fake IDs were my favorite. Margin was unreal - $4 of supplies for $200 return - that's on scannable, PVC cards with real holograms (inteference powder gold/speedball base, 50:1 ratio, apply via whatever method you had). I found a loophole in the state law that involved 16pt red bold font across the front making it not a false document of any kind. Therefore - if I just found a way to put that in, use the "bath salt" approach with its verbiage, and it was easy to remove the red print - I hadn't broken any law, right?
Selling a Fake ID = not a mega crime. Accessory to manslaughter + fake ID + identity theft? Mega crime, and it's uncommon. Google up some lads from Arizona who got 20 years each for making fakes because a dippy drunk girl crashed in to a car with a kid or two..if my memory is right, they'll be able to post about it in about 7-10 more years.
Second - a lot of internet tough guys are here, acting like they won't fucking melt down the second they're in a police station, because hey - lawyer up, say nothing, and.....you'll be fine. Spoiler - the people who aren't posted aren't posting because they probably went to fucking jail (or prison, it's prison in the US most likey - there is a difference).
But - the entire part about drawing attention to yourself is entirely right. You can't control bad luck (you were driving perfectly in your legally registered car not speeding, and it just happens to be the day that you get pulled over because your light went out during the day and you don't know you have a non-functioning taillight as you're heading home from your legally owned PO Box with a package that happens to seem suspect).
You can control your appearance, your job, your level of professionalism/social skills (more the latter), and can proactively NOT draw attention to yourself. The less people notice you, the better - that's actually something you could math up with if you wanted to.
Some things to think about, as I'm just being flooded with thoughts on this and I could write a book on this site, the attitude LE has towards it, what attitude is likely the safest, and the fact that yes - buying illegal contraband across state, national, or continental lines a crime. An unfortunate one in my opinion (for certain items), but a criminal fact.
My parting thoughts on things you should consider that ARE relevant to your life and freedom:
1. Not having a fuck the police attitude - you're going to call them when you get robbed, or somebody rapes your wife, or when you need them, so it's not "fuck the police" - it's "fuck, the police enforce the laws with differing levels of enthusiasm in regards to my crime."
2. Don't have a physical appearance that in any way makes you look suspicious you don't want to look suspicious to - in this case, it's the cops, so - profile yourself. If YOU were a cop, would you consider yourself more likely than not to be suspicious in a random lineup? If you know the mentality of local cops, would THEY consider you suspicious, or just the average Joe for your part of the world.
3. You're a moving bag of goods - you have pockets, bags, cars, a house..if you have things you shouldn't, but want to - when should they be part of your moving bag? At any time, think about whether or not you NEED to have something with you, and remember to always check yourself before going out in public.
Last - "I forgot about X" is a pretty common theme in the stories of people getting busted. You never planned on getting busted, because you are going to get away with it. But - people get busted, or become junkies, or forgot what they should do. No judgment on junkies, but - did you say "I think I want to be a heroin/meth addict?" before you were? I have yet to meet someone who has.
So - LE wants this site down because it's dangerous in the hands of idiots. It's a cock-slap in the face of international efforts, and it's also the bane of the internet to however many local communities have had busts, ODs, or problems stem from it.
Do the cops care about your baggie in your stealth back? You, Joe Bloggs, and your 1.5g bag of MDMA? Probably fucking not at all. Where it came from, how it came, and that it's coming from something new and scary? You can bet your fucking life on it.
Euros...you have it way easier than us.
If they're going to fuck you, they will, and only money that seemingly nobody here has can save you. DPR included, whatever or whoever DPR is, because why risk prison if it's about money and the site is still up). Pride will be the downfall here, but - I don't plan on it going down, and haven't since I started. ;]
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I know a girl who was a big time dealer where i live. She got caught with 400grams of weed and 1000pills in the trunk of her car on her way home from her supply. She went to court and claimed she had a serious drug addiction and all the drugs were hers. They believed her and let her go under the condition that she get help for her severe addiction in rehab.
The police don't care if your buying drugs from SR for personal use. THE POLICE WOULD RATHER US BUY FROM ONLINE THEN SUPPORT LOCAL CRIME. I believe this is one of the main reasons SR is still around, it's a safe place to buy safe drugs and not support local gangs and crime. If you go reselling then you got to be careful. I just sell to 3-4 friends at 3-5x profit ::)
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I know a girl who was a big time dealer where i live. She got caught with 400grams of weed and 1000pills in the trunk of her car on her way home from her supply. She went to court and claimed she had a serious drug addiction and all the drugs were hers. They believed her and let her go under the condition that she get help for her severe addiction in rehab.
The police don't care if your buying drugs from SR for personal use. THE POLICE WOULD RATHER US BUY FROM ONLINE THEN SUPPORT LOCAL CRIME. I believe this is one of the main reasons SR is still around, it's a safe place to buy safe drugs and not support local gangs and crime. If you go reselling then you got to be careful. I just sell to 3-4 friends at 3-5x profit ::)
See - you can't make blanket statements that are this specific. This is one case, with one person, with variables we don't know about. Do you really think and believe that because this girl got let go for trafficking by claiming (being) a junkie that it's safe to say, ALL IN CAPS, that it's true for everyone?
I would change your post to - "I know a girl who got caught with what was undoubtedly a trafficking amount of pills and weed, but who was lucky, very fucking lucky, and was able to plead down to rehab."
Where was this? What was his fiscal/social status? Did she have a lawyer, and if so, a good one or an appointed one. Did she provide intel (she did)? Let's ask cops, on the street, what they think of Silk Road, the online drug marketplace, and report back tomorrow. Seriously though...if you're trolling, well done. But if you're not, this type of shit has to go.
I'd love to see more stuff like this - "I spent time in San Francisco, and my perception there was that the police loosely enforced drug laws on soft drugs, but were strict on hard drugs outside of an unofficial area within the downtown area that was quietly allowed to operate as an open air drug market. While the police still made busts and had presence, it was pretty clear that their intent was on containing the street drug problem to a specific area, as they knew it could be controlled better."
But...I wish for lots of things.
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I would agree with OP, to an extent.
Keep in mind, the LE agencies from the USA that are currently active on SR are FBI and DEA. I can't make assumptions for other countries given that I am not aware of the LE divisions/duties, but I'm sure there are international LE here as well. Local LE (ie Sheriff or PD) are not going to spend any time on SR. I bet if you go up to a cop on the street and ask him "did you know there is a website that you can buy drugs on?" chances are the cop won't know about SR, and even if you ask him what his department is doing about it, he will tell you "nothing", because SR is out of the jurisdiction of local LE.
So now, we are considering the threat of LE, but more specifically the DEA or FBI. Both of these agencies focus on major criminal organizations and activities. Go watch a few episodes of DEA on Spike TV's website (if they still have it up), it becomes very clear very quickly that the DEA is most concerned with getting to the top of the pyramid.
If I were to list, in order, the targets of the ongoing FBI/DEA investigation, I would imagine they are:
#1 - DPR/SR website itself
#2 - Vendors
#3 - Buyers who are buying in serious bulk (real life drug dealers using SR to source their product)
#4 - Buyers who are buying for personal use ($1000 or less per month)
If you watch some episodes of DEA it reveals their process of dismantling drug organizations to be pretty simple. It starts with a small drug bust; some unfortunate individual in the wrong place at the wrong time OR a tip from an informant about a local dealer. Next, the DEA takes down the small time dealer, usually a guy netting between $1,000 and $5,000 per week dealing drugs, maybe has a few pounds on him, whatever. They sweat the dealer, wave a bunch of prison time in his face, and get him to roll over OR if he doesn't roll, they have various techniques for working up the chain besides sweating him (sweating for info just seems to get the fastest results). They continue this process, taking down dealers and stash houses until eventually they find the kingpin (or not, if the guy at the top is smart enough to see the heat coming).
The point of the paragraph above is to illustrate the process the DEA usually takes for dismantling organized drug trafficking. The problem with applying this strategy to SR is that you cut the technique in half by making all the transactions anonymous. If the DEA takes down somebody for buying a small amount, they have no way of working their way up from there. Their only hope is to take out all the vendors (still incredibly difficult) or to take down DPR/SR itself.
Unfortunately I am not too familiar with the way the FBI operates but I imagine their targets are still in line with the list I put above.
My viewpoint; it's always smart to be safe, so by no means am I encouraging buyers to be free-wheeling about their activities. Use PGP/GPG, be smart, don't talk a lot, and you should be fine as a small-time buyer. Everyone should always be on their toes though, because our alphabet friends are definitely here and they are watching.
I do agree with you about the list, but it'd be a little more complex I think, if you know what I mean.. like:
- DPR
- DPR's closest helpers (people helping run the site)
- Vendors, but the big ones, the ones selling hundreds and hundreds of grams a day. Especially that of heroin, cocaine, meth etc.. The drugs the people think lead to spikes in crime.
- Then smaller vendors, even then, they would still have to be clearing a significant amount to make the arrest worth-while.
I don't think they would even look at the buyers, look how many people buy from this site - it just wouldn't be worth the cost.
I honestly think that if they caught DPR (god forbid ) that they would just shut the site down.. Or maybe go for the vendors with like HUGE listings of cocaine, meth, crack and heroin just to help get it off the street.
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Good to see that I'm not the only one with the same thoughts.
+1 man, it was like reading what I would write. I just didn't do it, weird right?
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If LE catch you with small quantities, maybe you are better off if they know you got them using SR, because then it is no use intimidating you into ratting on your dealer (which is a large part of their motivation for arresting you.)
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MySecretAccount,
Agree with your post, especially the bit about appearance!
Some people simply look like criminals, and some even go out of their way to cultivate that appearance. Then they are surprised that they constantly come to the attention of police. The funny thing is that the people that do that seem completely blind to the implications of their appearance. With white guys it is as if they think they should be treated the same way as a guy in a suit. With black guys they put the police attention down to 'racism', ignoring the fact that clean-cut black guys don't attract unwanted police attention.
When a policeman sees me, he sees a law abiding citizen. Nothing at all in my appearance meets a criminal profile.
Here are some hints for people out there if they don't want to fit the profile.
1. Don't smoke cigarettes! Cigarettes don't turn you into a criminal, but almost all criminals smoke. It is strongly correlated, but no proven causation. If you don't smoke, you have already significantly reduced your chances of being profiled as a criminal.
2. Tattoos, piercings, and so on. Don't have any of this on your body.
3. Clothes. Wear the kind of clothes that mainstream members of society wear. Not gangsta or thug, not anything to do with a subculture. If you follow the clothing style in 'Dress for Success', no policeman will ever suspect you without a lot of evidence. http://www.amazon.com/John-Molloys-New-Dress-Success/dp/0446385522
4. Speech. Do you speak in ebonics, or use some sort of thieves cant in your daily speech? If so, learn the standard dialect of your country, and speak it well. Even here on the forums and SR, whenever you see a scammer they almost always use ebonics/thieves cant. That kind of speech screams "I am a criminal!".
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I'm sorry Firehawk, but i think you're deluding yourself.
The very thing you're doing means you constitute a criminal and most officers DON'T care if you're 'not a bad guy'. Trust me, I've seen a LOT of bullshit over the years and they will destroy your life even if they don't agree with the law(which they do because most of them are mindless robots). You know people are actually turned down for employment as LEO because they have too high an IQ(They can think for themselves)?
Besides, the job kind of draws people who were the jocks and bullies in schools and now are trying to figure out how they're still going to be important and throw their weight around on people who are actually giving back to society and doing something with their lives.
/rant
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Some great debate on here, better than I had hoped for.
So I was witness to something interesting the other day that illustrates my point (which I now realise I may not have explained completely).
I saw someone get busted on the street for posession of a small amount of heroin, personal use amounts. The 'offender' was using in a park (in public view), nodded off and someone called emergency services. The offender was only out of it briefly, so much so that he was up and walking by the time an ambulance arrived less than 5 minutes later. He told the ambulance crew he was fine and that it was a false alarm. As the ambulance crew were leaving, a police car arrived and two cops got out and asked the guy what happened.
Like a silly person, he told them.
He then consented to a search, subsequently had some gear found on him and--surprise surprise--got arrested for possession. (Interestingly I asked a cop friend of mine about this and he was surprised the guy was arrested, he said it was most likely because the police involved were bored or didn't like the look of the offender)
What happened to him from there I don't know, but knowing how things work in my area I would imagine a visit to the LE building for charges to be laid, then release pending a court appearance. Likely the offender will opt for free legal aid and then get off with a drug diversion program.
Now. The difference between this man and me: He was using in a park in full view of the public, came to police attention, TOLD THEM WHAT HE WAS DOING, agreed to a search, and also essentially looked the part of a criminal wandering the streets.
I use drugs in my own house, having them delivered by an unknowing mule (the mailman), from people I trust (vendors I've dealt with before who have done well). I don't do anything to attract police attention (apart from above, but I use encryption, TOR, etc... Good luck identifying me and proving it in court). If police did come knocking on my door, without a warrant I am not speaking to them let alone letting them into my house. If they do have a warrant (and why go to the trouble of obtaining a warrant to bust a user, because it is in fact an involved process) and then raid my house, they will not find more than a personal use amount (if they find it because I'm really careful about hiding my things when I'm not using them. You'd look right at them and not recognize them for drugs). I would say nothing other than "I cannot answer any questions without a lawyer present". To then take me to court and have me get anything more than a 'conviction not recorded' and a drug diversion would be pretty bloody surprising.
Call me cocky, but I've thought this through. In my circumstances, as long as I don't go around telling people what I'm doing and how I'm doing it, I'm far more likely to have my life ruined by getting hit by a car crossing the road than by using SR. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here.
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Leaglize weed In the US, Please
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MySecretAccount,
Agree with your post, especially the bit about appearance!
Some people simply look like criminals, and some even go out of their way to cultivate that appearance. Then they are surprised that they constantly come to the attention of police. The funny thing is that the people that do that seem completely blind to the implications of their appearance. With white guys it is as if they think they should be treated the same way as a guy in a suit. With black guys they put the police attention down to 'racism', ignoring the fact that clean-cut black guys don't attract unwanted police attention.
When a policeman sees me, he sees a law abiding citizen. Nothing at all in my appearance meets a criminal profile.
Here are some hints for people out there if they don't want to fit the profile.
1. Don't smoke cigarettes! Cigarettes don't turn you into a criminal, but almost all criminals smoke. It is strongly correlated, but no proven causation. If you don't smoke, you have already significantly reduced your chances of being profiled as a criminal.
2. Tattoos, piercings, and so on. Don't have any of this on your body.
3. Clothes. Wear the kind of clothes that mainstream members of society wear. Not gangsta or thug, not anything to do with a subculture. If you follow the clothing style in 'Dress for Success', no policeman will ever suspect you without a lot of evidence. http://www.amazon.com/John-Molloys-New-Dress-Success/dp/0446385522
4. Speech. Do you speak in ebonics, or use some sort of thieves cant in your daily speech? If so, learn the standard dialect of your country, and speak it well. Even here on the forums and SR, whenever you see a scammer they almost always use ebonics/thieves cant. That kind of speech screams "I am a criminal!".
One thing I have to bring up that can't be stressed enough - cars and how you drive. I would go on for days about how easy it is to have your car and driving be completely forgettable (still can be nice, very nice even), but I have to jet.
Golden rule for me is - if I have to wonder whether something might draw more attention to me than I'd like, it's a bad idea. On that thought - be polite when you're out and about. Hold the door for people, chat with the cashier, get used to being the type of person who doesn't look awkward or that makes people uncomfortable.
As lame as it sounds - smile. I'm always amazed and what keeping a pretty happy look on my face does at times. I might be in the worst mood ever, but just your front you're keeping up by being here - put up the front in real life. It's worth it.
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I hope i'm extremely wrong, But i was talking to a friend about this. I don't think Silk Road will get serious heat until someone(probably a minor) orders something from here and ODs.And then they'll try and see where they got it from, and the minute that SR pops into someone's mouth, The governor from that state will make it his mission to close SR because little tommy ordered something he didn't know much about and used too much of it and died. That's why i hate that someone sells cyanide here.
There is also that point. But my take on it is that so far SR is in the 'too hard' basket for a lot of agencies. PGP and TOR are very good ways of staying anonymous if you use them correctly, and although bitcoins are somewhat the weak link in the chain, they are still pretty darn good for anonymity if used properly. The effort to trace a bitcoin transaction that doesn't want to be traced is enormous.
For the effort that would be required to be expended to find DPR (and whoever will no-doubt step into his shoes) and close down SR, little Tommy's would have to be dropping dead left right and centre. At the moment the key demographic for SR is technically minded young men who take drugs but don't like to take risks doing it, not 12 year old kids curious about shooting heroin into their veins and overdosing.
The fact that The Armory is now gone also goes a long way to making SR and affiliated people a less attractive target, countering terrorism is pretty damn high on the list of government things to do right now, kicking in doors of geeky drug users that don't sell is not.
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I hope i'm extremely wrong, But i was talking to a friend about this. I don't think Silk Road will get serious heat until someone(probably a minor) orders something from here and ODs.And then they'll try and see where they got it from, and the minute that SR pops into someone's mouth, The governor from that state will make it his mission to close SR because little tommy ordered something he didn't know much about and used too much of it and died. That's why i hate that someone sells cyanide here.
There is also that point. But my take on it is that so far SR is in the 'too hard' basket for a lot of agencies. PGP and TOR are very good ways of staying anonymous if you use them correctly, and although bitcoins are somewhat the weak link in the chain, they are still pretty darn good for anonymity if used properly. The effort to trace a bitcoin transaction that doesn't want to be traced is enormous.
For the effort that would be required to be expended to find DPR (and whoever will no-doubt step into his shoes) and close down SR, little Tommy's would have to be dropping dead left right and centre. At the moment the key demographic for SR is technically minded young men who take drugs but don't like to take risks doing it, not 12 year old kids curious about shooting heroin into their veins and overdosing.
The fact that The Armory is now gone also goes a long way to making SR and affiliated people a less attractive target, countering terrorism is pretty damn high on the list of government things to do right now, kicking in doors of geeky drug users that don't sell is not.
Go to any country anywhere, except perhaps Portugal and some third world nations, and "they" will care if you have drugs or deal them... period!
Until this generation of politicians dies or goes into retirement we should always remember that we are in a war, and we are winning it making the enemy more desperate.
With the drug war over, there remains little excuse for governments to still exist other than to send formerly free men against the forces of other governments to die, killing people they have never even met and at the same time steal the products of labor off of the people people they conquered both home and abroad.
Governments know the drug war is the key to financing every other war and at the same time keep the people of the world subdued under a Military Industrial Complex/Zionist system of government.
Remember, a starving wounded tiger is much more vicious and desperate than a well fed one, so just because you're well fed doesn't mean cash strapped failing governments that want any excuse to enslave and exploit you aren't looking to devour you for a snack.
If they spent as much time investigating people like Bernie Madoff as they do local drug dealers perhaps we could say that. Sadly we know this is not the case and never will be so long as scumbags like Madoff are somehow seen as better people than a college student who grows some plants in his basement to prevent his electricity getting cut off in the middle of winter because he can't pay his bills on time thanks to his shitty wage from McDonald's, and an overdue student loan repayment with outrageous interest rates.
Another perspective from your pal PSY
LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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MySecretAccount,
Agree with your post, especially the bit about appearance!
Some people simply look like criminals, and some even go out of their way to cultivate that appearance. Then they are surprised that they constantly come to the attention of police. The funny thing is that the people that do that seem completely blind to the implications of their appearance. With white guys it is as if they think they should be treated the same way as a guy in a suit. With black guys they put the police attention down to 'racism', ignoring the fact that clean-cut black guys don't attract unwanted police attention.
When a policeman sees me, he sees a law abiding citizen. Nothing at all in my appearance meets a criminal profile.
Here are some hints for people out there if they don't want to fit the profile.
1. Don't smoke cigarettes! Cigarettes don't turn you into a criminal, but almost all criminals smoke. It is strongly correlated, but no proven causation. If you don't smoke, you have already significantly reduced your chances of being profiled as a criminal.
2. Tattoos, piercings, and so on. Don't have any of this on your body.
3. Clothes. Wear the kind of clothes that mainstream members of society wear. Not gangsta or thug, not anything to do with a subculture. If you follow the clothing style in 'Dress for Success', no policeman will ever suspect you without a lot of evidence. http://www.amazon.com/John-Molloys-New-Dress-Success/dp/0446385522
4. Speech. Do you speak in ebonics, or use some sort of thieves cant in your daily speech? If so, learn the standard dialect of your country, and speak it well. Even here on the forums and SR, whenever you see a scammer they almost always use ebonics/thieves cant. That kind of speech screams "I am a criminal!".
One thing I have to bring up that can't be stressed enough - cars and how you drive. I would go on for days about how easy it is to have your car and driving be completely forgettable (still can be nice, very nice even), but I have to jet.
Golden rule for me is - if I have to wonder whether something might draw more attention to me than I'd like, it's a bad idea. On that thought - be polite when you're out and about. Hold the door for people, chat with the cashier, get used to being the type of person who doesn't look awkward or that makes people uncomfortable.
As lame as it sounds - smile. I'm always amazed and what keeping a pretty happy look on my face does at times. I might be in the worst mood ever, but just your front you're keeping up by being here - put up the front in real life. It's worth it.
This.
Also what Firehawk and PSY said.
This is such a great thread. Love this place.
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Governments know the drug war is the key to financing..
Although I don't agree with everything in your post, this part is key to understanding how the War on Drugs works. A lot of police might not do drugs themselves but they certainly don't care *that* much if people are taking drugs. People who get caught with small amounts of drugs don't get fined large enough amounts for it to be worth the government's time to make an arrest. Selling drugs is considered a much more serious offense and I'm sure the fines are large *but* the police would rather look for people driving drunk because those take a lot less effort.
Essentially if you're in the US and are selling drugs, as long as you lay low and know your rights you will be fine. If you get arrested just keep your damned mouth shut and hire a lawyer (you should save some of the money from selling and put it into a legal defense fund eventually). If you see cops out on the streets don't converse with them and generally just keep your distance.
The only drug busts the cops like are big ones containing meth, weed, or cocaine where they can get a nice photo-op and give it to the press. I sell MDMA and while they still will bust me for it, they're not as keen on busting MDMA sellers as they for the other stuff.
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@kk lol!!!!