Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: fubar420 on October 20, 2012, 09:29 pm
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Hello all,
I am scared shitless. I received a letter in the mail recently that says
"You are receiving this letter because your name and/or address has been identified with the purchases of controlled substances online, which may be punishable by imprisonment under Federal law Title 21 U.S.C. 844. These controlled substances were often shipped from foreign countries. With limited exception, it is a felony to import controlled substances into the United States under Title 21 U.S.C. 952. The Drug Enforcement Administration is actively and aggressively targeting these online illicit websites for prosecution.
If you have any questions about this letter or have information to provide about illegal online websites, please call the drug enforcement administration at (***)***-****"
I'm pretty sure they got my address from when the farmers market got busted awhile back. Should I be worried? What should I do?
Thanks
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I know that hindsight is 20/20 and it will not help you much now, but what you should have done is ordered drugs to fake ID boxes or other places not connected with yourself. I would never order substances right to my home address. I know people from TFM who ordered shit to boxes they got with fake ID and similar types of anonymous locations, and they are laughing that their long since abandoned shipping locations probably have received the same warning letters.
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Not everyone has access to fake ID boxed. I mean is this just a warning letter or should I be worried about them paying me a visit?
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If they wanted you they wouldn't send you a letter first most likely. You are definitely on a list though, and it isn't entirely unreasonable to assume that you may get a visit eventually.
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Hello all,
I am scared shitless. I received a letter in the mail recently that says
"You are receiving this letter because your name and/or address has been identified with the purchases of controlled substances online, which may be punishable by imprisonment under Federal law Title 21 U.S.C. 844. These controlled substances were often shipped from foreign countries. With limited exception, it is a felony to import controlled substances into the United States under Title 21 U.S.C. 952. The Drug Enforcement Administration is actively and aggressively targeting these online illicit websites for prosecution.
If you have any questions about this letter or have information to provide about illegal online websites, please call the drug enforcement administration at (***)***-****"
I'm pretty sure they got my address from when the farmers market got busted awhile back. Should I be worried? What should I do?
Thanks
First and foremost, RELAX.
I am absolutely delighted to see that you created a new account to post your message, thus preventing LEA from associating your usual Forum identity with TFM. Good thinking on your part.
If you used your real name and address when ordering from TFM, then you are on notice that that name and address is now burned. Nothing is likely to come of this -- when you think about it, the DEA have done you a tremendous favor -- people don't normally find out they are on a watch-list. You now know for a fact that you are on one.
I suspect what happened here is that the Feds either got the operators of The Farmers' Market to sing like canaries, and/or they took advantage of TFM's notoriously poor computer security. It sounds to me like nothing so much as the Feds got your name and address off of one of the TFM operator's computers. (They should NEVER have been storing this information, period, but it would appear that they may have done so regardless.)
Finding your name and address on a computer seized in a raid, isn't enough evidence to investigate you, let alone convict you in a court of law. The DEA knows this full-well, that's why they're sending out these letters, in an attempt to scare people off. Frankly, if the DEA had two working brain cells to rub together, they would have just silently monitored these names and addresses for potential future violations. Come to think of it, they may have already considered this approach, and rejected it as unworkable.
In the case that you should receive a visit at some time in future, remember this:
- You are not obligated to speak to them, period, regardless of what they might say in an attempt to get you to talk to them.
- Just in case, lawyer-up. Make sure you have a decent criminal attorney you can speak to, if need be.
- Keep you house and computer squeaky-clean, just in case.
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There are three things to take from this.
1. Encrypt your address with GPG. It is very possible that the people getting letters were identified because their addresses were sitting in plaintext on the TFM server, or plaintext on the computers of vendors.
2. Vendors, it is vitally important for you to wipe all traces of address information when you are done with it.
3. Get shit sent to boxes that are not connected to you. Fake ID and private mail box is one strategy. People have discussed abandoned buildings, homeless shelters. Less scrupulous people will do a bit of surveillance on a random house to see if the owners are home when the mail comes, get shit shipped to them and intercept the pack before they check their mail. There are a lot of techniques and all have advantages and disadvantages, but here we can see one of the biggest benefits: if shit hits the fan and the feds get an address it will not be your address. The only way they will get you at this point is doing surveillance on the box and watching you pick up. History has shown us time and time again that this doesn't always happen in the case of interceptions, sometimes you get a love letter, sometimes you get a warning letter like this, sometimes the pack just never arrives and a postal inspector knocks on your door a few weeks later, sometimes it says right on the tracking that the feds intercepted your shit! Having an anonymous shipping location is your last layer of defense and in this case we can clearly see that it worked to the advantage of the people doing it, and that not using anonymous shipping locations worked to the disadvantage of the people who didn't use them.
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Another thing we should do is try to find out if there are any common ordering patterns with people who received these letters, we can probably narrow in on what happened (ie: which vendors talked / had piss poor security and didn't wipe addresses, or if the server itself was seized with plaintext addresses still stored on it).
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Yeah, that's exactly what I thought they either got them to sing like canaries or got it off their computers. In any case, Hundreds of packs that were ordered from SR never got popped since and that was long after TFM got busted. One just came through the other day matter of fac......t so does this mean I can no longer order anything off SR anymore? What gives them the right to open my mail when they have no evidence to search or as you said let alone convict me. So should I really be cleaning my house?
Thanks
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Yeah, that's exactly what I thought they either got them to sing like canaries or got it off their computers. In any case, Hundreds of packs that were ordered from SR never got popped since and that was long after TFM got busted. One just came through the other day matter of fac......t so does this mean I can no longer order anything off SR anymore?
I'm not syaing you can't order anymore, just that you'll have to be extra-careful. As kmf suggests, having a drop box used with a fake identity would be best.
What gives them the right to open my mail when they have no evidence to search or as you said let alone convict me. So should I really be cleaning my house?
Thanks
If you're on a watch-list, it likely means that your mail will receive extra scrutiny, whether it be dog, x-ray or what have you. If your mail is suspected of containing contraband, they will likely get a warrant to have it opened. Having previously received contraband would make it easier to get a warrant, in my opinion (I'm not a lawyer.)
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Finding your name and address on a computer seized in a raid, isn't enough evidence to investigate you, let alone convict you in a court of law. The DEA knows this full-well, that's why they're sending out these letters, in an attempt to scare people off.
No, it's not enough evidence for a conviction, but this IS most definitely enough evidence to investigate him. The reason the DEA is sending out these letters is because they don't see it as worth their time and effort to go after the small fish. He's likely a user not a dealer. At least as far as they can tell from the information they seized.
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I don't really think DEA & COPS are any smarter than us they follow the traffic of addicts to raid houses of dealers and scan computers of sellers for cluesthey really are not any smarter than us we just assume they are.
Also if you think sending encrypted messages is safe the DEA is sure to download the PGP and scan the messages left behind on the hard drive of a dealers computer.Just because you delete the message it is still stored on the computer hard drive all they have to do is DOS the system and look for suspected files and uncrypt them there is always a trace on the hard drive best thing to do is BUY your own copy of windows and do a wipe of the hard drive & fresh install every month of your operating system safest way really.I have 3 laptops 1 dedicated to SR no other use not even to check my email just SR call me paranoid But at least I am safe
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i wonder if i would get only this letter if they found one of my 100g mdma packs. hopefully
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I used to get high with a guy several years back (5-7 years ago) who was arrested for recieving drugs in the mail. He was living with a relative who happened to recieve the mail that day (This was before we learned about drop boxes) got curious opened his package found the drugs and called the cops. The cops confiscated the package and called it a day. My freind comes home asks if he recieved a package that day. This was all they needed. since his relative was wired this question was what they used to prove he "attempted Possesion." The cops called my freind the next day asked him to come to the station was fingerprinted charged and sent home. To make the rest of this long story short the feds refused his case because it was not enough weight. (he recieved three lbs of greenery so that's a little bit more than a key.) he was charged locally and walked with a misdemeanor and slap on the wrist. This was a long time ago but i just remember being shocked they didn't throw the book at him. Needless to say we stopped hanging out shortly after that (i'm really freaking paranoid). I'll never forget that day when i found out though i was shitting bricks lol.
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I used to get high with a guy several years back (5-7 years ago) who was arrested for recieving drugs in the mail. He was living with a relative who happened to recieve the mail that day (This was before we learned about drop boxes) got curious opened his package found the drugs and called the cops. The cops confiscated the package and called it a day. My freind comes home asks if he recieved a package that day. This was all they needed. since his relative was wired this question was what they used to prove he "attempted Possesion." The cops called my freind the next day asked him to come to the station was fingerprinted charged and sent home. To make the rest of this long story short the feds refused his case because it was not enough weight. (he recieved three lbs of greenery so that's a little bit more than a key.) he was charged locally and walked with a misdemeanor and slap on the wrist. This was a long time ago but i just remember being shocked they didn't throw the book at him. Needless to say we stopped hanging out shortly after that (i'm really freaking paranoid). I'll never forget that day when i found out though i was shitting bricks lol.
Should have pressed charges against the relative for opening his mail..isn't that a federal offense?
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I don't get it. The address are erased after marked in transit. and they should not be able to decrypt shit from what i read. if you used GPG that is. One thing to think about is if you do use a fake id to open a po box then you are looking at more federal crimes if you get busted. i bet there are many charges the pigs can load up on you by using a fake po box. and since you are driving back home with it you are talking even more charges. damm if you do and damm if you don't
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damn just a letter in the mail? I think you should consider yourself lucky my friend. If you had half a brain you would realize that you're drug buying days are over - at least through the postal service.
You should be happy that all you got is a letter. Now just play it safe and clean up.
and to all of those people saying "use a fake name and box" I honestly think thats a lot more sketchy and a red flag. what happens when they find out you're using a fake name? they're going to wonder why you're using a false name to receive 1 package a week. It just doesn't make sense to me to raise suspicion on yourself by using false information.