Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: jsmithy123 on October 19, 2012, 01:55 am
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I am reading with wide eyes the topic started by Mt Gox support, here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86224.40
In this topic they openly accuse certain customers of money laundering, then retract the accusations. They admit reporting suspicions to Japanese police/authorities - and who knows who else. They argue with customers openly and include details that should remain private. Their AML requirements are in my experience more onerous and hair-trigger than opening a Delaware corporation online. They detail they have just 3 support staff working their trouble tickets. All through this they blame everyone else for everything that goes wrong, saying that this culture of suspicion is the Japanese way of doing business.
I got caught up in their web by making a bank transfer deposit to buy BTC (they state their verified identity stuff kicks in at much higher limits). The bothersome thing about it is once you decide to go with them they have your money *and will not refund it* until you jump whatever hurdles they are inclined to throw up for you. In that sense it is a bait and switch operation, advertising simplicity and (below specified amounts) anonymity, but actually you're putting your neck in an identity noose.
It is funny that bitcoins are supposed to solve these kinds of hassles but actually the gatekeepers like Mt Gox make it harder to enter or leave the system than dealing with us dollars - in terms of identity protection and anonymity.
One can open bank accounts attached to shell companies insulated from your identity by layers of nominee directors, with a few clicks, and move millions globally without issue. But playing with a few dozen bitcoins? omg you're a possible criminal.
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I am reading with wide eyes the topic started by Mt Gox support, here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86224.40
In this topic they openly accuse certain customers of money laundering, then retract the accusations. They admit reporting suspicions to Japanese police/authorities - and who knows who else. They argue with customers openly and include details that should remain private. Their AML requirements are in my experience more onerous and hair-trigger than opening a Delaware corporation online. They detail they have just 3 support staff working their trouble tickets. All through this they blame everyone else for everything that goes wrong, saying that this culture of suspicion is the Japanese way of doing business.
I got caught up in their web by making a bank transfer deposit to buy BTC (they state their verified identity stuff kicks in at much higher limits). The bothersome thing about it is once you decide to go with them they have your money *and will not refund it* until you jump whatever hurdles they are inclined to throw up for you. In that sense it is a bait and switch operation, advertising simplicity and (below specified amounts) anonymity, but actually you're putting your neck in an identity noose.
It is funny that bitcoins are supposed to solve these kinds of hassles but actually the gatekeepers like Mt Gox make it harder to enter or leave the system than dealing with us dollars - in terms of identity protection and anonymity.
One can open bank accounts attached to shell companies insulated from your identity by layers of nominee directors, with a few clicks, and move millions globally without issue. But playing with a few dozen bitcoins? omg you're a possible criminal.
None of this should come as _any_ surprise to anyone who's been paying attention. The two main choke points in and out of the various online black market sites are obtaining bitcoins in the first place, and later on, cashing-out. There is little doubt in my mind that the U.S. based FinCen (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network) has been putting pressure on the Japanese government, who in turn is turning up the heat on exchanges like Mt. Gox. I believe that FinCen is trying to nip Bitcoin in the bud, before it can get any higher a rate of adoption in the underground markets than it already enjoys.
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I am reading with wide eyes the topic started by Mt Gox support, here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86224.40
In this topic they openly accuse certain customers of money laundering, then retract the accusations. They admit reporting suspicions to Japanese police/authorities - and who knows who else. They argue with customers openly and include details that should remain private. Their AML requirements are in my experience more onerous and hair-trigger than opening a Delaware corporation online. They detail they have just 3 support staff working their trouble tickets. All through this they blame everyone else for everything that goes wrong, saying that this culture of suspicion is the Japanese way of doing business.
I got caught up in their web by making a bank transfer deposit to buy BTC (they state their verified identity stuff kicks in at much higher limits). The bothersome thing about it is once you decide to go with them they have your money *and will not refund it* until you jump whatever hurdles they are inclined to throw up for you. In that sense it is a bait and switch operation, advertising simplicity and (below specified amounts) anonymity, but actually you're putting your neck in an identity noose.
It is funny that bitcoins are supposed to solve these kinds of hassles but actually the gatekeepers like Mt Gox make it harder to enter or leave the system than dealing with us dollars - in terms of identity protection and anonymity.
One can open bank accounts attached to shell companies insulated from your identity by layers of nominee directors, with a few clicks, and move millions globally without issue. But playing with a few dozen bitcoins? omg you're a possible criminal.
None of this should come as _any_ surprise to anyone who's been paying attention. The two main choke points in and out of the various online black market sites are obtaining bitcoins in the first place, and later on, cashing-out. There is little doubt in my mind that the U.S. based FinCen (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network) has been putting pressure on the Japanese government, who in turn is turning up the heat on exchanges like Mt. Gox. I believe that FinCen is trying to nip Bitcoin in the bud, before it can get any higher a rate of adoption in the underground markets than it already enjoys.
so insightful, so true, so shitty.
yes, without stringent parameters, we'd probably end up rubbing elbows with some very unsavory opportunists. so being kept in check can be a good thing, but just not when that task is unilaterally handled by an unwanted, weak-willed foreign exchange. but since there aren't any real alternatives on the scale of mt. gox, there aren't any real incentives to make improvements to that service.
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how much were you talking about? (not exactly, just ball park if you would) you mention a couple dozen coins, or was it closer than that to what it actually lists for AML procedures?
do you mean bank cash deposit or bank transfer, maybe it was less about laundering and more about trying to make sure it wasnt an identity theft issue
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If you are a Silk Road customer, then it is important that you realize that MtGox is not on your side. MtGox, and also Intersango, oppose what is happening here and they actively cooperate with law enforcement. I'm not saying you shouldn't use their services, but you shouldn't expect privacy when dealing with them. Be careful.
It's not nice of them, but at the same time, it's their attitude that makes it harder for politicians to make a case against BitCoin. So in a way they they're also helping us.
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also, did you access mt gox through tor?
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also, did you access mt gox through tor?
I did that once, so apparently I couldn't go back to Gox even if I wanted to. Good think I don't wanna.
That's one of the silliest things about this. If you're using Tor, why then you MUST be a necropedozoophiliac who sells powdered bleach to kids and tells them it's meth in order to finance your terrorist agenda. Just because you don't want your private business to be public.
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it was about a grand
no I didn't access through TOR - although it irritates me that they auto-freak out over that why is some internet cafe IP address any less suspicious?
they accepted my submitted IDs after about 8 hours and released the cash, however I've no idea what they would do if I demanded it back at best I'd lose all the wire fees I imagine.
Basically the terms and conditions allow them to enter AML whenever they want to, and they should really state that right next to the part where it says the limits below which ID is not required. And they should also describe what their refund procedure is if you decline to be identified, or state that in that case they will hold onto your cash. One or the other. Not leave it open and uncertain.
For the largest exchange by far in the BTC world they're a pretty tiny company that is clearly flying by the seat of their pants honestly if I woke up one day to read that they'd been comprehensively hacked or have frozen all customers funds pending more identity or something I'd not be surprised in the least.