Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: paxpax on July 30, 2012, 11:16 pm

Title: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: paxpax on July 30, 2012, 11:16 pm
Just wondering what peoples opinions are on SR hitting the mainstream. With more and more articles appearing about SR more and more attention is drawn to the site.
Personally if it wasn't for the recent media attention I probably would not have learned of it's existence, so in one hand I am appreciative of it. I am not a fan of how SR is usually painted in a negative light. I can see pros and cons of each side, although the pros may not be what DPR and company has in mind. I think ultimately SR fame will be it's eventual downfall. As the ranks continue to bolster here laws will be enacted in order to shut it down. No doubt fueled by media propaganda on painting SR as a drug peddler to the children. While SR may be protected as a site, payment methods and transaction methods may become victim of political intervention. What I would like to believe is this is the beginning of the end on the War on Drugs.  What I am hoping is this site will spawn many similar sites thus creating a new market that could never be totally wiped out.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: masterblaster on July 31, 2012, 12:15 am
Lsd demand increases calling for increase in supply, prices drop, vials of pure lsd become available, NYC/LA water mgmt employee drops vial into outgoing water supply, spawns new cultural revolution.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: MarijuanaIsMyMuse on July 31, 2012, 12:25 am
The dead, rising from the grave. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together....MASS HYSTERIA!
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: gambino on July 31, 2012, 01:13 am
I know this doesn't answer your question exactly, but the international drug prohibition regime is responsible for creating the black market and, therefore, Silk Road.  Black market participants, by and large, don't care if children are involved, and in the case of SR, there's no way to know which buyer is a kid and which is an adult.  Have Bitcoins, will travel.  Simple as that.  If society wants to limit the availability of drugs to children, it's going to need to rethink prohibition for adults.  But of course, it's more complicated than that, and there are tons of entrenched interests in prohibition, such as the prison-industrial complex and law enforcement bureaucracies, whose only goal is money.  Let's be honest -- they don't give a fuck about children either.  It's all about profit.  At the end of the day, it's the responsibility of parents, not society, to educate and protect children.  But don't tell that to Mr. Rozga -- he thinks his son's well-being was the government's responsibility, society's responsibility.  I empathize with his loss, but he needs to own his own failure as a parent and not involve me, because his son's death had nothing do with me.  So leave me the fuck out of it and the fuck alone.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Delta11 on July 31, 2012, 01:16 am
REVOLUTION!

The fact that shipping my THC edibles is a felony is a joke, I get messages all the time from people across the country thanking me for providing them great medicine at a great price because some people don't want to be drugged up on painkillers everyday.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: GoodGuyGreg on July 31, 2012, 05:45 pm
Some say it's inevitable that it will fall. I sure as hell hope not. My preferred future for this site is that it flourishes even more so, leading to a clear net version of the site, and ending the war on drugs. Grown adults should be able to make their own decisions dammit! We don't need these childish restraints for these victimless crimes.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: sselevol on July 31, 2012, 06:03 pm
It's really hard to tell. It's inevitable that this will gain more and more coverage as we get more users, but I can't see many ways in which it can be taken down unless DPR is as well, but I don't know much about TOR so I can't make an educated guess.
If SR goes then 10 more will take its place :) you can't kill an idea, and so many people have used this idea and seen how successful it's been.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Ahoyhoy on July 31, 2012, 06:23 pm
Just wondering what peoples opinions are on SR hitting the mainstream. With more and more articles appearing about SR more and more attention is drawn to the site.
Personally if it wasn't for the recent media attention I probably would not have learned of it's existence, so in one hand I am appreciative of it. I am not a fan of how SR is usually painted in a negative light. I can see pros and cons of each side, although the pros may not be what DPR and company has in mind. I think ultimately SR fame will be it's eventual downfall. As the ranks continue to bolster here laws will be enacted in order to shut it down. No doubt fueled by media propaganda on painting SR as a drug peddler to the children. While SR may be protected as a site, payment methods and transaction methods may become victim of political intervention. What I would like to believe is this is the beginning of the end on the War on Drugs.  What I am hoping is this site will spawn many similar sites thus creating a new market that could never be totally wiped out.

Yeah, good point and worthy topic, I joined SR very early on and, although the choice of products and vendors is much better now, something about the growth of SR really worries me. I can see it getting so popular that it draws attention to the extent that it gets closed down and that would be a sad, sad day for all of us.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: ZenAndTheArt on July 31, 2012, 07:41 pm
Has anyone noticed that the result of more and more (negative) media coverage, is more buyers and sellers on SR? And, not the public outcry and mass public condemnation that the media seem to be trying to provoke.

More exposure = better Silk Road

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: only on July 31, 2012, 08:54 pm
Love the optimism in this thread! More exposure obviously means greater risk, but no one said we can't handle it :P
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: PHM89 on July 31, 2012, 09:20 pm
Very intriguing thread, and some very interesting angles, as this is a topic I've mulled over in my head before. There are obvious pros and cons to SR media coverage and the resulting growth in users. In the broader scope, SR, even if for whatever reason isn't around forever, is a step in the right direction and a great model for respecting people's anonymity and personal boundaries while making transactions as easy as possible.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: henrich414 on July 31, 2012, 09:50 pm
SR is starting is heading from the mainstream seeing it as somewhat of a curious trinket, to being a serious first-choice for the world's drug users. It is an absolute watershed moment in history, and I say that with no hesitation whatsoever. It is heading for brighter and better things, and I can't wait to see what  these things are.

The dust has settled from Round 1. Major tabloids have covered it, forums have been raving about it and the DEA and Home Office know all about it. It is here to stay, at least until some c*** releases a Thesis highlighting a serious vulnerability with the Tor protocol.

This forum is being crawled by the police the world over, scrutinised for any information on the sever location. They know they are fucked, and can only make the best of a single pathetic case in Australia. I say let them listen- and fuck you to anyone reading this with any authority over drug policy. We're here to stay, and there's fuck all you can do about it.

I wouldn't be posting on this forum if all SR to me was scoring. To me this is about taking our Liberties back, our right to bear arms, our right to do what we want to our bodies, the right to encrypted communications without the state sticking their nose in. This place is a digital utopia for any real libertarian, and I absolutely revel in every moment I browse it.

Long live TSR and liberty.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: pine on July 31, 2012, 10:04 pm
Our feet may be in the gutter, but we are looking up at the stars.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: wrspt1 on July 31, 2012, 10:12 pm
Cool thread.  I want to high five henrich414's post.  I fully agree.

I've only been here a few days, and it's been so fun reading this forum and seeing the community created here.  Liberty is right!

Oh, and I learned a cool new word in this thread: Agorism (thanks, Shannon).
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Limetless on July 31, 2012, 10:15 pm
This is all really a moot point as SR is not ours, it's DPR's. It's his ship so let him steer it, we should just be happy to be aboard.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: H4L101 on July 31, 2012, 10:17 pm
This is all really a moot point as SR is not ours, it's DPR's. It's his ship so let him steer it, we should just be happy to be aboard.
Couldn't have said it any better nice style to it as well :p +1.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Limetless on July 31, 2012, 10:27 pm
:)

I sorta said this before but although the forum is a sort of a community and has a communal vibe SR is not a community but I think the community feel of the former makes people feel ownership of the latter when this isn't the case. It's like when people speculate how much DPR earns or how much vendors earn, it's actually nobody's concern but DPR or the vendors. We should be just happy that it's here at all and not want to pull it apart and try and over analyse it. The only thing I'd like to see is a language selection so I don't get red dots underneath where I put S instead of Z in certain words but we can chalk that up to me being English and anally retentive. :P
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 31, 2012, 11:07 pm
This is all really a moot point as SR is not ours, it's DPR's. It's his ship so let him steer it, we should just be happy to be aboard.

Thank you for the acknowledgement Lim, but what is Silk Road without all of you?  The way I see it, we are all players in something that has grown way beyond any one of us.  Granted I play a unique role, but part of that role is continually earning the trust of the community to make the right choices going forward, and to serve each of you as best I can.  Silk Road was built to serve you, your needs and desires are the wind that fills its sails.  Without you, we are dead in the water.  So sure, it's my job to steer and chart the course, and I am ultimately responsible for the outcome of this experiment, but never forget where the real power lies.  It's where it always has been, in your hands.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Trinitron421 on July 31, 2012, 11:10 pm
This is all really a moot point as SR is not ours, it's DPR's. It's his ship so let him steer it, we should just be happy to be aboard.

Thank you for the acknowledgement Lim, but what is Silk Road without all of you?  The way I see it, we are all players in something that has grown way beyond any one of us.  Granted I play a unique role, but part of that role is continually earning the trust of the community to make the right choices going forward, and to serve each of you as best I can.  Silk Road was built to serve you, your needs and desires are the wind that fills its sails.  Without you, we are dead in the water.  So sure, it's my job to steer and chart the course, and I am ultimately responsible for the outcome of this experiment, but never forget where the real power lies.  It's where it always has been, in your hands.

Where it should have always been, until our greedy governments took it from us.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Limetless on July 31, 2012, 11:31 pm
This is all really a moot point as SR is not ours, it's DPR's. It's his ship so let him steer it, we should just be happy to be aboard.

Thank you for the acknowledgement Lim, but what is Silk Road without all of you?  The way I see it, we are all players in something that has grown way beyond any one of us.  Granted I play a unique role, but part of that role is continually earning the trust of the community to make the right choices going forward, and to serve each of you as best I can.  Silk Road was built to serve you, your needs and desires are the wind that fills its sails.  Without you, we are dead in the water.  So sure, it's my job to steer and chart the course, and I am ultimately responsible for the outcome of this experiment, but never forget where the real power lies.  It's where it always has been, in your hands.

Yeah I think it depends how you personally see SR. Personally I see it as sort of like a cross between a massive dinner party and a shopping mall combined into one. So the doors are open, the tables are set and all that but we bring the wine and cheese, and some very good wine and cheese at that. At the same time there are rules but they are quite basic but the rules are what brings me to the point where I say SR is ultimately yours. An analogy of this is what happens if you glass someone at a dinner party? You get chucked out. What happens if you shop lift at a shopping center? You get nicked and banned. Those that set the rules are the ones in charge, it's the way of the world.

However this is just my perspective on it. We all see SR in our own way I suppose. It probably means something slightly different to each of us individually.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Shannon on July 31, 2012, 11:43 pm
Thank you for the acknowledgement Lim, but what is Silk Road without all of you?  The way I see it, we are all players in something that has grown way beyond any one of us.  Granted I play a unique role, but part of that role is continually earning the trust of the community to make the right choices going forward, and to serve each of you as best I can.  Silk Road was built to serve you, your needs and desires are the wind that fills its sails.  Without you, we are dead in the water.  So sure, it's my job to steer and chart the course, and I am ultimately responsible for the outcome of this experiment, but never forget where the real power lies.  It's where it always has been, in your hands.
how are you an agorist and a collectivist at once? :P
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: ZenAndTheArt on August 01, 2012, 12:00 am
This is all really a moot point as SR is not ours, it's DPR's. It's his ship so let him steer it, we should just be happy to be aboard.
That sounds like you don't like people having opinions on the direction of where the site (and therefore the SR community) is heading?
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Limetless on August 01, 2012, 12:07 am
This is all really a moot point as SR is not ours, it's DPR's. It's his ship so let him steer it, we should just be happy to be aboard.
That sounds like you don't like people having opinions on the direction of where the site (and therefore the SR community) is heading?

No I don't care if people have opinions on it, of course we all have our own individual opinion on what we would like to see happen to SR. I certainly do. What I am saying which I think is fairly clear is that it's not up to us because SR isn't OURS so I don't concern myself with it. What I do concern myself with is in what direction I take my business. If SR went in a direction I didn't feel was compatible with my own goals I'd cease to sell here, as far as I can tell this isn't going to happen though so again, another moot point.


Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Gary Oak on August 01, 2012, 12:12 am
I'm loving all the metaphors and whatnot being written in this thread. Lot's of symbology going on 'round here. ;D
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: pine on August 01, 2012, 12:13 am
Thank you for the acknowledgement Lim, but what is Silk Road without all of you?  The way I see it, we are all players in something that has grown way beyond any one of us.  Granted I play a unique role, but part of that role is continually earning the trust of the community to make the right choices going forward, and to serve each of you as best I can.  Silk Road was built to serve you, your needs and desires are the wind that fills its sails.  Without you, we are dead in the water.  So sure, it's my job to steer and chart the course, and I am ultimately responsible for the outcome of this experiment, but never forget where the real power lies.  It's where it always has been, in your hands.
how are you an agorist and a collectivist at once? :P

Individualism ultimately serves the collective. It was Adam Smith's belief that when an individual pursues his self-interest, he indirectly promotes the good of society.

With the criteria that you require open competition and no coercion between market participants.

Many people who mock these ideas today, never really understood them in the first place. They prefer "sophisticated" arguments in preference to simple truths. Communism was not an advancement because its theory was more complex, it was really a throwback to older philosophies that go back to the Greeks and no doubt beyond.

Only capitalism was an original conception. If people research Maddison's work on economic statistics over the centuries then they will come to similar conclusions: capitalism was the catalyst for where we are today vs the dark ages. Many of our critics forget that even Karl Marx agreed with us on this point. Marx says in the manifesto that we were responsible for the greatest change in history, he saw capitalism as a positive development in comparison to the past, even though he was hyper-critical of it in his day. People also forget that Marx wrote Das Kapital something close to a century before the Revolution began, so they conflate his ideas with a good deal of the rhetoric of the time.

In fact, there is a great deal the communists and capitalists agree on, that the general public do not. Which is, I think, interesting.


Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Limetless on August 01, 2012, 12:14 am
I'm loving all the metaphors and whatnot being written in this thread. Lot's of symbology going on 'round here. ;D

GAROLD WHERE YA BEEN ALL MY LIFE!

Oh and also I'd like to add that even if I ceased to sell on SR I would probably continue to Mod here because I enjoy both separately.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Vinnyg007 on August 01, 2012, 12:17 am
Silk Road is heading towards being infested with newfags, Bob Marley avatars and dumb questions. There is a learning curve, but god damn some of the newer members are retarded. I haven't been here very long, but I've been around other forums which had to require stricter registration due to shill accounts and scammers. I don't particularly like the guy who constantly makes new accounts and attempts a new scam every few days with the shit grammar.

I love the Silk Road. You guys have me reading about Karl Marx and agorism and made me a bit more libertarian. It's a philosophical enlightenment. Fuck it since I have it copy and pasted I'm going to post this again. Dread Pirate Roberts is my hero, and I'd follow him into battle with a pointy stick but I see this forum becoming chaos and a breeding ground for scammers. If you don't agree with my opinion that's perfectly acceptable, because it is just that, an opinion of many. But I've seen the death of a few forums, Overgrow and Drugbuyers for example, and I don't want my new home to suffer the same fate. Sorry if this has been read before. I just though it came out pretty well. I'm going to delete it from another thread because I feel this is a more suitable home.

I think Silk Road should enact a quota on new members and vendors. Demonoid.me has a strict member policy and they only open registration every once in awhile. I think to become a member of Silk Road there should be a quiz like Guru said. You should be able to answer basic questions, have a registered Tormail account, answer a PGP encrypted email, and make some sort of bitcoin deposit to prove you're actually going to be a buyer.

There are a few online pharmacies that require email registration. I think a quiz should be answered via a confirmed tormail account in PGP encryption, and a basic tutorial about Tor and general knowledge should be completed.

I think you shouldn't be allowed to lurk in this forum as a guest and there should be a stricter criteria to register.

I'm sort of tired of newfags asking the same questions over and over. I've only been here a couple of months but in that time frame in my opinion it is going downhill around here.

What I'm saying is that sites like pharmacyreviewer.com have infinitely better member and forum control and moderation than this site. This site isn't moderated very well and people want to buy poisons, shrunken heads, counterfeit money, dead bodies, child porn and want to mail people bombs.

This entire forum easily becomes personal insults, flame wars, a hotbed of scammers and people under throw-away accounts offering services outside of escrow and soliciting loans.

An influx of new members would be bad news for all of us. That means more mail is going to be flooded with drugs and contraband.

I believe the purpose of this website is a safe haven for the drug-addled and depraved. I'd like to see a working safe environment which proves to law enforcement that we are not boyfuckers, terrorists and street criminals. We're supposed to be hyper-intelligent users and cyber-anarchists. I don't see this goal being accomplished with a dozen scams and shill accounts posting in this forum everyday.

New members seem retarded. Poor grammar is increasing, everyone has Bob Marley avatars, stupid questions are on the rise, and there is much trolling outside the confines of my troll thread.

I believe a vendor wall of shame should be created, and the highest priced items should be scrutinized and made fun of and shunned by the community. I take ridiculously high prices and not as advertised products as a personal insult to my intelligence.

This forum is fucked up. I love you guys though, well most of you.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 01, 2012, 12:29 am
how are you an agorist and a collectivist at once? :P

Damn good question.  I think a kind of collectivism emerges from agorism.  Sure, you are free to operate in isolation if you wish, but one benefits from collaboration and cooperation with others, so there is incentive to do so.  Also, in an agorist society, individuals are free to pursue their own ends, provided those ends are not to harm others.  Those ends can be altruistic if that individual wishes it.  For me personally, I love people and seeing them empowered and free, so part of the profit I gain from this venture is that satisfaction.  The difference is that a true agorist will never force a collectivist agenda on people who want no part in it.  The ends DO NOT justify the means, so if people voluntarily form a collective and are free to leave at will, then I see no contradiction there with agorism.  Forcing people to comply with your vision of what the collective should be...there we have problems!

So, in the case of Silk Road, people are free to participate or not.  If there is anything they don't like about it, they can use any alternatives available to them.  Therefore, we are a voluntary community.

I guess the point of my first post is that I don't operate in a vacuum.  If I make bad decisions, people leave.  If I make good ones, people stay and spread the word even.  So yea, if we want to prosper, I need you and you need me.  That relationship is the fiber that builds up to make something like Silk Road have a life of it's own.  The collective part is just an observation of this.  Instead of trying to control this development, a big part of my job is staying out of the way and letting the pattern emerge. 
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Delta11 on August 01, 2012, 01:17 am
how are you an agorist and a collectivist at once? :P

Damn good question.  I think a kind of collectivism emerges from agorism.  Sure, you are free to operate in isolation if you wish, but one benefits from collaboration and cooperation with others, so there is incentive to do so.  Also, in an agorist society, individuals are free to pursue their own ends, provided those ends are not to harm others.  Those ends can be altruistic if that individual wishes it.  For me personally, I love people and seeing them empowered and free, so part of the profit I gain from this venture is that satisfaction.  The difference is that a true agorist will never force a collectivist agenda on people who want no part in it.  The ends DO NOT justify the means, so if people voluntarily form a collective and are free to leave at will, then I see no contradiction there with agorism.  Forcing people to comply with your vision of what the collective should be...there we have problems!

So, in the case of Silk Road, people are free to participate or not.  If there is anything they don't like about it, they can use any alternatives available to them.  Therefore, we are a voluntary community.

I guess the point of my first post is that I don't operate in a vacuum.  If I make bad decisions, people leave.  If I make good ones, people stay and spread the word even.  So yea, if we want to prosper, I need you and you need me.  That relationship is the fiber that builds up to make something like Silk Road have a life of it's own.  The collective part is just an observation of this.  Instead of trying to control this development, a big part of my job is staying out of the way and letting the pattern emerge.
And this is why Silk Road is the most successful/popular market on the darknet.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Vinnyg007 on August 01, 2012, 01:20 am
Tee hee DPR sent me a message and I feel like I just talked to the president. In case anyone else was wondering overgrow was busted for selling seeds and pot and it was full of scammers accepting checks, cash in the mail and money orders. The domain name and servers were seized by the government in a sting operation. It was pretty blatantly illegal and of course they operated on the clearweb.

The bust of overgrow was the first of its kind and lead to the popularity of grasscity and rollitup in my opinion.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: jameslink2 on August 01, 2012, 01:22 am
Thank you for the acknowledgement Lim, but what is Silk Road without all of you?  The way I see it, we are all players in something that has grown way beyond any one of us.  Granted I play a unique role, but part of that role is continually earning the trust of the community to make the right choices going forward, and to serve each of you as best I can.  Silk Road was built to serve you, your needs and desires are the wind that fills its sails.  Without you, we are dead in the water.  So sure, it's my job to steer and chart the course, and I am ultimately responsible for the outcome of this experiment, but never forget where the real power lies.  It's where it always has been, in your hands.

So, We are, locked in, loaded, aero-dynamic, ready to roll Everybody heave to! Trise up, the smoking lamp is lighted throughout the ship, Salute the quater on watch, salute the colors, Salute the OD, Mill about smartly because there is some frigg'n in the rigg'n and we are hase gray and under way brother.

A salute to DPR!

My question is who is responsible for getting the rotting red out of the scupper.

 ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=69wgvOl6PDQ
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Limetless on August 01, 2012, 01:27 am
how are you an agorist and a collectivist at once? :P

Damn good question.  I think a kind of collectivism emerges from agorism.  Sure, you are free to operate in isolation if you wish, but one benefits from collaboration and cooperation with others, so there is incentive to do so.  Also, in an agorist society, individuals are free to pursue their own ends, provided those ends are not to harm others.  Those ends can be altruistic if that individual wishes it.  For me personally, I love people and seeing them empowered and free, so part of the profit I gain from this venture is that satisfaction.  The difference is that a true agorist will never force a collectivist agenda on people who want no part in it.  The ends DO NOT justify the means, so if people voluntarily form a collective and are free to leave at will, then I see no contradiction there with agorism.  Forcing people to comply with your vision of what the collective should be...there we have problems!

So, in the case of Silk Road, people are free to participate or not.  If there is anything they don't like about it, they can use any alternatives available to them.  Therefore, we are a voluntary community.

I guess the point of my first post is that I don't operate in a vacuum.  If I make bad decisions, people leave.  If I make good ones, people stay and spread the word even.  So yea, if we want to prosper, I need you and you need me.  That relationship is the fiber that builds up to make something like Silk Road have a life of it's own.  The collective part is just an observation of this.  Instead of trying to control this development, a big part of my job is staying out of the way and letting the pattern emerge.
And this is why Silk Road is the most successful/popular market on the darknet.

Indeed. That's why I have made my digital home here. I like it because I have the feeling of freedom here too. You can just sorta wander around and talk to people and shit like that. It makes an nice to change to my IRL world where everything is a fucking stealth thing.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Christy Nugs on August 01, 2012, 01:29 am


  Also, in an agorist society, individuals are free to pursue their own ends, provided those ends are not to harm others.  Those ends can be altruistic if that individual wishes it.  For me personally, I love people and seeing them empowered and free, so part of the profit I gain from this venture is that satisfaction.  The difference is that a true agorist will never force a collectivist agenda on people who want no part in it.  The ends DO NOT justify the means...


I wish the douhbags in washington thought like this!!


Edit: and why are we answering another media persons questions so they can come up with bullshit article?

just askin' ;
<3
Christy
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Shannon on August 01, 2012, 01:35 am
how are you an agorist and a collectivist at once? :P

Damn good question.  I think a kind of collectivism emerges from agorism.  Sure, you are free to operate in isolation if you wish, but one benefits from collaboration and cooperation with others, so there is incentive to do so.  Also, in an agorist society, individuals are free to pursue their own ends, provided those ends are not to harm others.  Those ends can be altruistic if that individual wishes it.  For me personally, I love people and seeing them empowered and free, so part of the profit I gain from this venture is that satisfaction.  The difference is that a true agorist will never force a collectivist agenda on people who want no part in it.  The ends DO NOT justify the means, so if people voluntarily form a collective and are free to leave at will, then I see no contradiction there with agorism.  Forcing people to comply with your vision of what the collective should be...there we have problems!

So, in the case of Silk Road, people are free to participate or not.  If there is anything they don't like about it, they can use any alternatives available to them.  Therefore, we are a voluntary community.

I guess the point of my first post is that I don't operate in a vacuum.  If I make bad decisions, people leave.  If I make good ones, people stay and spread the word even.  So yea, if we want to prosper, I need you and you need me.  That relationship is the fiber that builds up to make something like Silk Road have a life of it's own.  The collective part is just an observation of this.  Instead of trying to control this development, a big part of my job is staying out of the way and letting the pattern emerge.
hi admin, i was kinda mesing with you, maybe i should have written "communist" or some other belief system which advocates the abolition of markets instead of "collectivist" to get the joke across :P appreciate the response, your ideas on communities are ones even the most extreme agorists like myself can identify with

and why are we answering another media persons questions so they can come up with bullshit article?

just askin' ;
<3
Christy
christy i'm not a media person, in fact you might know me from dsm crew :)
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Limetless on August 01, 2012, 01:39 am
I feel quite left out that I have no "ist" or "ism" to attach myself to apart from maybe capitalism. Clearly I need to become more radical.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Christy Nugs on August 01, 2012, 01:45 am
nice to see u again shannon ;)

do u have the paxpax account also? he/she is the one that posted...?

when will there be another dsm? there is only one part of me thats pink!!

rofl tits off!!!

:P  ;
Christy
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Tienamen on August 01, 2012, 01:48 am
I just have to +1 this thread... I agree a lot with what some have said so far, and appreciate DPR's vision and leadership.  I'm relatively new around here, but this place is absolutely fantastic!  I know for one that this will probably save me from being shot in the street some day trying to find what I'm looking for - or being locked away for being in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time...
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: asdfsquared on August 01, 2012, 01:57 am
In my (humble) opinion, SR is going to get shut down. When? Who knows. Might be a month, might be 10 years, but eventually It will cease to exist. The way I see it, is there are four ways for the war on drugs to attack the silk road.

1) A server attack

As long as DPR keeps his shit together, i don't foresee a server attack being likely, as it would have to be carried out by the DEA. The DEA is extremely ill-equipped to handle anything online. I doubt many DEA agents could even figure out how to get onto SR without an extremely comprehensive tutorial. Their specialty is tracking gangs, cartels, deep undercover work, being knuckleheads, etc. They are NOT the NSA.

2) A community attack

What this means is that law enforcement may eventually pose as sellers, create accounts, ship long enough to get their stats up, then make huge arrests of people buying drugs. You wouldn't know who to trust on SR, and it would eventually become extremely risky to try buying anything, even from seemingly experienced sellers. The community would collapse. This type of attack is entirely possible, and would actually be successful if not ran by a government entity. Why? Because no government in the world would approve a sting operation that involves sending thousands of dollars worth of drugs across the country then, a few weeks/months later cashing in on the arrests. They would no longer be LE at that point. They would be actual drug dealers.

3) A shipping attack

What I mean by this is heightened USPS customs security. Extremely expensive for the government, and easily remedied by sellers. Unlikely.

4) A funding attack

I see this as the most likely type of attack. If you know anything about bitcoins, then you also know that its virtually impossible to 'shut down' the bitcoin trade. It is, however, possible to require a ridiculous amount of security and identity verification before buying/cashing out on bitcoins. In fact, its pretty damn difficult at the moment to cash out on bitcoins. And its only getting harder. That's why the bitcoin value has increased in the past few weeks, its getting hard to sell them. The DEA may be bad at computer stuff, but its good at getting legislation passed. All it will take is a few underage suburban white kids overdosing on heroin purchased from the silk road to hit the media, and the DEA won't have a problem getting much more strict legislation passed. Perhaps even legislation banning USD to BTC exchanges. It wouldn't be hard either, as its in the name of money laundering. In my opinion, if we want SR to continue, we need to have some sort of plan in place to continue buying/selling bitcoins for USD.

"But I don't live in America" you say. Well, once the US chokes out its citizens from using SR, you can bet other countries will follow suit.

This is all just my opinion though. /rant.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Christy Nugs on August 01, 2012, 02:07 am
the fed ( I believe ) is already implementing the shutdown of the bitcoin network by flooding it with fake u.s. dollars.
when the fed "makes" its monopoly money - it sits down at a keyboard and punches in a few numbers - e' voila.
who else can get money to diss appear suddenly and create a fiasco? really !!!

EDIT: Atrocious spelling...
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: paxpax on August 01, 2012, 03:16 am
how are you an agorist and a collectivist at once? :P

Damn good question.  I think a kind of collectivism emerges from agorism.  Sure, you are free to operate in isolation if you wish, but one benefits from collaboration and cooperation with others, so there is incentive to do so.  Also, in an agorist society, individuals are free to pursue their own ends, provided those ends are not to harm others.  Those ends can be altruistic if that individual wishes it.  For me personally, I love people and seeing them empowered and free, so part of the profit I gain from this venture is that satisfaction.  The difference is that a true agorist will never force a collectivist agenda on people who want no part in it.  The ends DO NOT justify the means, so if people voluntarily form a collective and are free to leave at will, then I see no contradiction there with agorism.  Forcing people to comply with your vision of what the collective should be...there we have problems!

So, in the case of Silk Road, people are free to participate or not.  If there is anything they don't like about it, they can use any alternatives available to them.  Therefore, we are a voluntary community.

I guess the point of my first post is that I don't operate in a vacuum.  If I make bad decisions, people leave.  If I make good ones, people stay and spread the word even.  So yea, if we want to prosper, I need you and you need me.  That relationship is the fiber that builds up to make something like Silk Road have a life of it's own.  The collective part is just an observation of this.  Instead of trying to control this development, a big part of my job is staying out of the way and letting the pattern emerge.
And this is why Silk Road is the most successful/popular market on the darknet.

Indeed. That's why I have made my digital home here. I like it because I have the feeling of freedom here too. You can just sorta wander around and talk to people and shit like that. It makes an nice to change to my IRL world where everything is a fucking stealth thing.

Lim - I wanted touch on your last sentence and it struck me as extremely ironic.  It is here under the protection of TOR, encryption PGP and anonymity that many of us feel we can just be ourselves and talk casually about subjects. Funny how freedom is found under the cover of darkness....
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Christy Nugs on August 01, 2012, 04:47 am
FREEDOM ISN"T FREE !! Never has been never will be!

EDIT: Cool-aid anyone?
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: MySecretAccount on August 01, 2012, 08:31 am
I'm cross-posting this from a thread I made about this very thing. Here's my take, as a person that I believe to be both intelligent and like minded to DPR in a way:

I originally wrote this post in response to a thread bitching about prices of c certain items, and it ended up being my master thesis on SR as a whole and honestly quite well worded. It's long, but I think that reading it might put the site in to context for those who seem frustrated with a site that has opened Pandora's Box and is nothing we should feel ENTITLED to. When you take out the raw functionality of the site and look at all of the moving pieces, it has to be apparent that there is so much more here going on than you really think about.

I normally don't put up walls of text, but - I feel like so many people have the wrong outlook when it comes to this site I had to put down my thoughts. To start off, there are 3 things that I think should be obvious but fly over the heads of lots of people:

1. Illegal items have massively varying worth from region to region (MDMA from NL to US, or Adderal from US to UK). This is one of the oldest truths in business, and especially black markets - the farther something illegally made has to travel, the more expensive it's going to be. This is why cocaine (when I did it 6, 7 years ago) was $500 an ounce in the border states but 100 quid a gram in the UK - coke in Europe has come a long way.

2. Given that these things are illegal and often not common in many regions of the world (I live in a major metro area in the US and I have not seen a press or MDMA that has shown even a hint of MDMA per Marquis testing for almost 3-4+ years in my city, and it's one of the biggest metro areas in the country. I hear about people who took E, but....it's not E. When (if) they finally try 100mg or so of something from the NL or a press from EU (Defqons), it blows their fucking mind and its value skyrockets. In a nutshell - we now have access to better quality anything and everything, at any time.

3. People are always willing to take risk to make money on illegal goods, with the most money being in the rarest items smuggled the longest distance (with few exceptions). The type of people who have this mentality, centered around profit, are often also prone to being selfish, arrogant, and want to argue. To be blunt - we're all not "the average Joes" of the world......we're people who somehow stumbled on to an encrypted private international black market with its own currency, laws, and worldwide reach.

These three themes have given me the following overall opinion/mindset about SR:

Silk Road in itself is a fascinating social experiment if you throw out its functionality as a black market. While the "message" or "goal" of the site is probably never going to EXACTLY be explained by the makers, it's clear that they wanted to open a Pandora's Box and start something that couldn't ever totally be stopped. While I'm not invited to any of them, I assume by now that there are at least several others site like this, each with the same function (drugs in the mail), but with different mindsets. The only one I know of is Black Market Reloaded, which is flaunting its illegality in its name.  Naming your drug dealing site something that implies it's a site selling drugs isn't too bright IMHO. I'm sure there are plenty of others, all with their own message and "style/attitude." That's great, but it's not Silk Road. Silk Road is the neutral Pandora's Box of the future - now this it exists, it (or it's idea and function) will never go away.

TL;DR starts here:

My point is this - we're on a massive, semi-anonymous website acting as an international black market for goods and services illegal in nearly every corner of the world. The demographic here is going to be no different than your demographic of any large grouping of people, maybe even black-market specific people. Think of the items for sale here and the "IRL" people who normally would have, do have, or could get the drugs and items for sale here. You likely wouldn't like most of them.

Throwing SR's absurdly high quality products aside and reliability aside -  I don't think any of us have the luxury of dealing with people half as intelligent, communicative, or interesting as we do here off the Road. SR opens the door to all types on purpose, including bad ones, because everything here builds on the ability to balance the market and improve every aspect of the idea and site.

Like every business scene:

You'll have your "in it for the cause" types who sell amazingly high quality goods at cost or just over types.

You'll have your "squeeze ever dollar out of these fucking customers as I can" types.

You'll have your "just a regular guy/girl who is just dabbling with buying some things or selling my prescription I don't take" types - these are the passive, profit-minded (but not greedy) types who aren't "drug dealers."

You'll have your scam artists, cons, long cons, and selective scammers. Their bullshit promotes communication amongst the legitimate members of SR.

And of course, you'll have your "total professional, highly reliable, slightly pricey but quality-centric steady-eddies." I could name examples, but I'm sure you know who some of them are.

If we didn't have all of these types, I would find SR to be a failure in its goal. DPR - feel free to correct me. While the steady-eddie vendors of the Road are the best types for the average buyer (in my opinion), I find it sad to see so much goddamn fighting about shit on the forums of a black market drug dealing website with intelligence levels that SHOULD be higher than the average "scene." Everything that happens here, good and bad, brings balance and stability to the marketplace. It has its swings, it's "big cons" like Tony76, but - because of them, better vendors emerge, and more and more people get involved in securing this site, its users, and working to continue what's started here forever. Having too much trust in a place like this was the downfall of the The Farmer's Market, as they weren't they neutral bystander letting everything go down on its own. They had a share the love type message (which isn't bad in itself), but their belief in their non-neutral mindset caused them to make decisions that eventually put them in jail.

Maybe you all disagree, but SR was designed to welcome all types, and as a community we have to accept that by having that inherent design, we bring with it all of its pros and cons. DPR and SR are genius in that they're not TRYING to "spread the love" or do anything beyond be the functional eBay of the black market that in can't exist anywhere else.

By letting us police ourselves, we actually end up with a better community, better communication (even about the bad things and people), and most active and involved users working on their own time to make things safer, better, and more reliable. If all we had was perfect vendors who had perfect packaging, perfect products, and perfect communication, the forums would be just full of garbage posts where people talk about how fucking high they are and yeahhhhhhhhhhhh man SR rules!

We need the bad to create the good, and we need the balance created by our completely open scene to constantly keep things at their best. Lots of people don't see it this way, but in the end having overpriced vendors is good, as it leads to undercuts and an efficient, evolving marketplace that caters to its supply and demand. Those who have private needs or separate attitudes quite likely have their own sites or small groups off SR, and that's fine - in fact, that's ideal. Without a central message, SR is the perfectly designed home-base for an all out marketplace with no focus on any one vertical.

That's my rant, but - if you're smart enough to be here, do what you need to do, and walk away unharmed - what problem do you have with outliers who have no relation to your specific needs? Handle yourself like an adult, be smart (because you have to be halfway smart to be here), and enjoy the amazing creation that's been bestowed upon us.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: DeadRa7 on August 01, 2012, 09:46 am
I'm cross-posting this from a thread I made about this very thing. Here's my take, as a person that I believe to be both intelligent and like minded to DPR in a way:

I originally wrote this post in response to a thread bitching about prices of c certain items, and it ended up being my master thesis on SR as a whole and honestly quite well worded. It's long, but I think that reading it might put the site in to context for those who seem frustrated with a site that has opened Pandora's Box and is nothing we should feel ENTITLED to. When you take out the raw functionality of the site and look at all of the moving pieces, it has to be apparent that there is so much more here going on than you really think about.

I normally don't put up walls of text, but - I feel like so many people have the wrong outlook when it comes to this site I had to put down my thoughts. To start off, there are 3 things that I think should be obvious but fly over the heads of lots of people:

1. Illegal items have massively varying worth from region to region (MDMA from NL to US, or Adderal from US to UK). This is one of the oldest truths in business, and especially black markets - the farther something illegally made has to travel, the more expensive it's going to be. This is why cocaine (when I did it 6, 7 years ago) was $500 an ounce in the border states but 100 quid a gram in the UK - coke in Europe has come a long way.

2. Given that these things are illegal and often not common in many regions of the world (I live in a major metro area in the US and I have not seen a press or MDMA that has shown even a hint of MDMA per Marquis testing for almost 3-4+ years in my city, and it's one of the biggest metro areas in the country. I hear about people who took E, but....it's not E. When (if) they finally try 100mg or so of something from the NL or a press from EU (Defqons), it blows their fucking mind and its value skyrockets. In a nutshell - we now have access to better quality anything and everything, at any time.

3. People are always willing to take risk to make money on illegal goods, with the most money being in the rarest items smuggled the longest distance (with few exceptions). The type of people who have this mentality, centered around profit, are often also prone to being selfish, arrogant, and want to argue. To be blunt - we're all not "the average Joes" of the world......we're people who somehow stumbled on to an encrypted private international black market with its own currency, laws, and worldwide reach.

These three themes have given me the following overall opinion/mindset about SR:

Silk Road in itself is a fascinating social experiment if you throw out its functionality as a black market. While the "message" or "goal" of the site is probably never going to EXACTLY be explained by the makers, it's clear that they wanted to open a Pandora's Box and start something that couldn't ever totally be stopped. While I'm not invited to any of them, I assume by now that there are at least several others site like this, each with the same function (drugs in the mail), but with different mindsets. The only one I know of is Black Market Reloaded, which is flaunting its illegality in its name.  Naming your drug dealing site something that implies it's a site selling drugs isn't too bright IMHO. I'm sure there are plenty of others, all with their own message and "style/attitude." That's great, but it's not Silk Road. Silk Road is the neutral Pandora's Box of the future - now this it exists, it (or it's idea and function) will never go away.

TL;DR starts here:

My point is this - we're on a massive, semi-anonymous website acting as an international black market for goods and services illegal in nearly every corner of the world. The demographic here is going to be no different than your demographic of any large grouping of people, maybe even black-market specific people. Think of the items for sale here and the "IRL" people who normally would have, do have, or could get the drugs and items for sale here. You likely wouldn't like most of them.

Throwing SR's absurdly high quality products aside and reliability aside -  I don't think any of us have the luxury of dealing with people half as intelligent, communicative, or interesting as we do here off the Road. SR opens the door to all types on purpose, including bad ones, because everything here builds on the ability to balance the market and improve every aspect of the idea and site.

Like every business scene:

You'll have your "in it for the cause" types who sell amazingly high quality goods at cost or just over types.

You'll have your "squeeze ever dollar out of these fucking customers as I can" types.

You'll have your "just a regular guy/girl who is just dabbling with buying some things or selling my prescription I don't take" types - these are the passive, profit-minded (but not greedy) types who aren't "drug dealers."

You'll have your scam artists, cons, long cons, and selective scammers. Their bullshit promotes communication amongst the legitimate members of SR.

And of course, you'll have your "total professional, highly reliable, slightly pricey but quality-centric steady-eddies." I could name examples, but I'm sure you know who some of them are.

If we didn't have all of these types, I would find SR to be a failure in its goal. DPR - feel free to correct me. While the steady-eddie vendors of the Road are the best types for the average buyer (in my opinion), I find it sad to see so much goddamn fighting about shit on the forums of a black market drug dealing website with intelligence levels that SHOULD be higher than the average "scene." Everything that happens here, good and bad, brings balance and stability to the marketplace. It has its swings, it's "big cons" like Tony76, but - because of them, better vendors emerge, and more and more people get involved in securing this site, its users, and working to continue what's started here forever. Having too much trust in a place like this was the downfall of the The Farmer's Market, as they weren't they neutral bystander letting everything go down on its own. They had a share the love type message (which isn't bad in itself), but their belief in their non-neutral mindset caused them to make decisions that eventually put them in jail.

Maybe you all disagree, but SR was designed to welcome all types, and as a community we have to accept that by having that inherent design, we bring with it all of its pros and cons. DPR and SR are genius in that they're not TRYING to "spread the love" or do anything beyond be the functional eBay of the black market that in can't exist anywhere else.

By letting us police ourselves, we actually end up with a better community, better communication (even about the bad things and people), and most active and involved users working on their own time to make things safer, better, and more reliable. If all we had was perfect vendors who had perfect packaging, perfect products, and perfect communication, the forums would be just full of garbage posts where people talk about how fucking high they are and yeahhhhhhhhhhhh man SR rules!

We need the bad to create the good, and we need the balance created by our completely open scene to constantly keep things at their best. Lots of people don't see it this way, but in the end having overpriced vendors is good, as it leads to undercuts and an efficient, evolving marketplace that caters to its supply and demand. Those who have private needs or separate attitudes quite likely have their own sites or small groups off SR, and that's fine - in fact, that's ideal. Without a central message, SR is the perfectly designed home-base for an all out marketplace with no focus on any one vertical.

That's my rant, but - if you're smart enough to be here, do what you need to do, and walk away unharmed - what problem do you have with outliers who have no relation to your specific needs? Handle yourself like an adult, be smart (because you have to be halfway smart to be here), and enjoy the amazing creation that's been bestowed upon us.

I'm too tired to type out what I'd like to say right now, but very well said!  This place is unlike anything anyone's ever seen before, and is truly an amazing community.

+1 for your insight-you are a very wise person, indeed.
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: Limetless on August 01, 2012, 04:50 pm
how are you an agorist and a collectivist at once? :P

Damn good question.  I think a kind of collectivism emerges from agorism.  Sure, you are free to operate in isolation if you wish, but one benefits from collaboration and cooperation with others, so there is incentive to do so.  Also, in an agorist society, individuals are free to pursue their own ends, provided those ends are not to harm others.  Those ends can be altruistic if that individual wishes it.  For me personally, I love people and seeing them empowered and free, so part of the profit I gain from this venture is that satisfaction.  The difference is that a true agorist will never force a collectivist agenda on people who want no part in it.  The ends DO NOT justify the means, so if people voluntarily form a collective and are free to leave at will, then I see no contradiction there with agorism.  Forcing people to comply with your vision of what the collective should be...there we have problems!

So, in the case of Silk Road, people are free to participate or not.  If there is anything they don't like about it, they can use any alternatives available to them.  Therefore, we are a voluntary community.

I guess the point of my first post is that I don't operate in a vacuum.  If I make bad decisions, people leave.  If I make good ones, people stay and spread the word even.  So yea, if we want to prosper, I need you and you need me.  That relationship is the fiber that builds up to make something like Silk Road have a life of it's own.  The collective part is just an observation of this.  Instead of trying to control this development, a big part of my job is staying out of the way and letting the pattern emerge.
And this is why Silk Road is the most successful/popular market on the darknet.

Indeed. That's why I have made my digital home here. I like it because I have the feeling of freedom here too. You can just sorta wander around and talk to people and shit like that. It makes an nice to change to my IRL world where everything is a fucking stealth thing.

Lim - I wanted touch on your last sentence and it struck me as extremely ironic.  It is here under the protection of TOR, encryption PGP and anonymity that many of us feel we can just be ourselves and talk casually about subjects. Funny how freedom is found under the cover of darkness....

Yeah it's a funny old world isn't it.  ::)
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: ZenAndTheArt on August 01, 2012, 05:42 pm
DPR, you are one of the few people in this world that makes a real difference to other peoples lives.
I commend you on your vision and how you have applied it. Some may say something like this was inevitable and if not DPR then someone else would have done this, but, it's your individual approach that has made SR the place it is (as compared to BMR). I'm not into hero worship, I just wanted to personally thank you for enriching my life. I hope you achieve whatever goals you have set yourself for SR.

In the immortal words of Spock "Live long and prosper".  ;)
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: geedogg on August 01, 2012, 06:16 pm
^ Here, here! I'm forever indebted to DPR, the SR crew & vendors for bringing this amazing site to the world and I'm really chuffed to be part of something so revolutionary. It can only go forward from here as governments around the world will fail to win their unnecessary war on drugs and their own people, and as long as we can stay on top of the technology and security and have people willing to risk their freedoms to bring us these joyful products along with people willing to risk buying them, we will continue to thrive here until such a time as people and governments around the world get real and lift prohibition on all drugs!!!
Title: Re: Which way is SR headed and where does it want to head?
Post by: curious_eltern on August 01, 2012, 06:37 pm
I would like it to come invite only, with invitations only sent to Tor based email services.

I would only allow invitations after a certain amount of purchases, and that number would be high. 20 or so and one invitation is credited to the account. From there on out one invitation credited for every 10 purchases.

I would also start removing people from the SR who are deemed a problem. How to judge who is a problem I cannot say, everyone would have their own threshold, only the admins of SR could make that call.

Not that this would make SR any 'safer', LE is already in and could easily find their way in because some people would sell their invitation, but it would be more controlled growth of the website. As we've seen in the real world, untamed growth leads to problems.

There are enough users now where someone who really wanted to get an invite could scheme up a way to get their hands on one. It would make the clever ones come on board in better proportions to the idiots, which is a good thing.

Only an idea, and completely understand why DPR wouldn't do this. $$$ baby. Rake in as much as you can as fast as you can. Hold lots of money in bitcoins and not cash them out. The more people using bitcoins and SR, the more the value of those coins increases.

DPR didn't do that 420 giveaway only out of the kindness of his heart. It is truly awesome that he did it, and he gets much respect from me and I hit the jackpot once which offset my Noriega loss, but I think he was holding more coins than he could reasonably cash out without setting off red flags. Guy is making a killing. I would bet only about 5-10% of buyers actually post on the forum.

I probably wouldn't limit registration if this was my site, but I would be aware that it would be the better choice.