Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: eJ3k1 on August 07, 2012, 11:26 pm
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How do you start your own TOR hidden service?
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holy shit
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This is when I usually drag out the cut 'n paste scissors and get to work a choppin'
Cheers Shannon!
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i posted it mainly to scare away the op, he wrote tor as "TOR" which is an easy way to tell that somebody doesn't really know much about tor and thus shouldn't be running a hidden service
Thanks for that. It's a nice addition to the info on the Tor Project website.
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i posted it mainly to scare away the op, he wrote tor as "TOR" which is an easy way to tell that somebody doesn't really know much about tor and thus shouldn't be running a hidden service
Last time I checked TOR is an abbreviation for The Onion Router, so why not capitalize the letters?
You know the program "how it's made"? It's a fun show, because it's nice to know how things work. That was kinda the reason I created this topic, because I was interested.
I don't know why you are acting like a bitch. Neg karma to you and I will repeat it every 72 hours.
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i posted it mainly to scare away the op, he wrote tor as "TOR" which is an easy way to tell that somebody doesn't really know much about tor and thus shouldn't be running a hidden service
Last time I checked TOR is an abbreviation for The Onion Router, so why not capitalize the letters?
You know the program "how it's made"? It's a fun show, because it's nice to know how things work. That was kinda the reason I created this topic, because I was interested.
I don't know why you are acting like a bitch. Neg karma to you and I will repeat it every 72 hours.
Actually Tor hasn't been called TOR for a long time, Shannon is completely right here.
He can be a little combative, but he knows his shit.
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Actually Tor hasn't been called TOR for a long time, Shannon is completely right here.
He can be a little combative, but he knows his shit.
Fuck that. I'll write it however the fuck I like. If it's an abbreviation, it gets capitalized. Like USA, DEA, THC, whatever. Geez. If you're gonna make a point out of that, fuck you sincerely.
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Come on guys, be civil! Shanon, surely there are more fertile hitherto undesecrated lands for trolling elsewhere? And Shannon helped you eJ3k1, maybe motivated by something other than altruism, but nonetheless you got the correct information you asked for.
Seems like the summer months and the rise in temperature are a mild form of the 'Rage Virus' sometimes. More riots, more domestics, more mad mammals.
:)
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Last time I checked TOR is an abbreviation for The Onion Router, so why not capitalize the letters?
Just because the Tor Project decided they wanted to treat it as a name rather than an acronym. There's no particular reason beyond that. But to be really pedantic, "tor" is also wrong, it should be "Tor" since it's a proper name, and because that's how the Tor Project spells it.
Anyway of course you can write it however you like, but it does kind of give you away as a newbie.
Now, if you really just want to "make a .onion website" just for fun and you don't care if it's actually secure, it's super easy. The hardest part is setting up a web server. Once you do that, just start Vidalia, go to settings->services click the green plus, put 80 for virtual port, anything you like (e.g. "test") for directory path, click OK and you're done.
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Nice read - tyvm :)
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Seems like the summer months and the rise in temperature are a mild form of the 'Rage Virus' sometimes.
I know where it's colder. Pine, comrade! I am inviting you to visit Russia for a weekend. We would spend such great time together on the Kolyma River or Solovetsky Monastery! I'll wait for you in the airport.
Yes! We will drink real vodka and dance with the bears! All the bears! Also with ice skating babushkas.
:: Clearnet warning ::
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyiEaSzpdMk
:: Clearnet warning ::
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Actually Tor hasn't been called TOR for a long time, Shannon is completely right here.
He can be a little combative, but he knows his shit.
Fuck that. I'll write it however the fuck I like. If it's an abbreviation, it gets capitalized. Like USA, DEA, THC, whatever. Geez. If you're gonna make a point out of that, fuck you sincerely.
It isn't an abbreviation.
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There was a good article by Shannon here, but now it's gone. Did anybody save it ?
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There was a good article by Shannon here, but now it's gone. Did anybody save it ?
Shannon periodically deletes posts, presumably to cover his tracks.
I've got the posts you're after, I'll repost them here as signed (by me) and compressed PGP files. They will not be encrypted. It means going to a small amount of effort to read them and prevents LE or journalist scraping the forums and running some rapid analysis of everything written.
TorHiddenService-Shannon-part1.txt.asc
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TorHiddenService-Shannon-part2.txt.asc
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TorHiddenService-Shannon-part3.txt.asc
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
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=aMU6
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
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Thanks, if I won't find out how to decrypt these messages, I will send you PM
UPDATE:
It was pretty easy to decrypt it.
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i didn't write that, it was an old polyfront (or maybe blackopsecurity) guide that i had saved. it didn't even really deal with setting up a .onion site, it was more about setting up a server and hardening various apps
Anyway, it's a very valuable info
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Thanks, if I won't find out how to decrypt these messages, I will send you PM
UPDATE:
It was pretty easy to decrypt it.
Yeah, technically it's not encrypted; just compressed, signed and ASCII armoured (gpg -sa filename.txt).
I initially tried to do it all in one go, but even with the compression it was still just over the 20K character limit.
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i didn't write that, it was an old polyfront (or maybe blackopsecurity) guide that i had saved. it didn't even really deal with setting up a .onion site, it was more about setting up a server and hardening various apps
Cool.
That aside, was I right about your reason for deleting so many of your posts, or is it just to lull newbies with the forum description?
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Problem with that old tutorial is it's using very buggy virtual machine software that hasn't been security audited for use in privacy critical hosting which is kind of insane. OS devs have been stamping out bugs in the x86 arch for decades and find new one's every day. Now you want to place a layer of extremely buggy mess code on top of that already terrible x86 arch and hope to god that it won't start page faulting or overflows. What if your attacker can get a shell and simply runs a tracert command or opens up lynx to find out the IP. No breaking out of the VM needed.
Running everything behind a firewall that uses Carp w/ Pfsense and using NAT to hand out internal IPs to your hardware separated web server and backend db through the DMZ seems to me like a lot more secure set up, though it will cost money (You can rent OpenBSD firewalls and other racks for dirt cheap per month). Now your OS is running on audited hardware, the webserver/db is behind NAT so attacker can't find out what they are, and the firewall is preventing all sorts of potential attacks both outgoing and incoming, and more importantly it's a separate piece of hardware with redundancy to prevent it crashing and an attacker from pinging out to get the IP.
Bonus is there's no VPS hosting company shady console access so you don't end up Linode-pwned since you're using all dedicated machines.
Article makes no mention of Resin http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/resin/ which MIT students taking network security graduate classes still use today. Every year since they came out with Resin, they choose 10 popular PHP forum software distributions and attack them all using known attacks, and a few of their own invented attacks and Resin so far has stopped them all. Without Resin the new attacks and even the old attacks with slight variations were able to fully exploit the application.
Article also makes no mention of CryptDB, a prototype MIT database that performs encrypted queries on encrypted data. The database entries are encrypted using the users password as a key. If they aren't logged in, and the box is seized then nobody can retrieve the information. All you need to do is add a few schema annotations to certain sensitive fields and can lock down an entire forum. Throw in Resin and nobody is exploiting shit unless of course, you're running a severely buggy virtual machine underneath it all that is a ticking overflow bomb.
Also is a very bad idea to use Abuse/Immunity Hosting Russian hosting for a Tor hidden service, since Tor there is a big democracy activist flag and they will take interest in shutting you down. It's typically at least 2-3x the regular price to use them, as they're primarily clearnet hosting for malware and spammers. I would just use any host recommended by Torservers.net in Germany or NL that they currently use so you blend in with the other Tor traffic.
If you just want to start your own tiny drug site then get a German VPS from torservers.net list of hosts and lock it down using the info from torservers.net relay setup guide, but don't edit the Torrc file for a relay, make it a hidden service. Build Nginx from source and look up how to edit out all the version information and headers, and other info that gives away IP address like in error pages. Compile it, run, good 2 go for any minor site. Fill the database with pregen bitcoin addresses and use Django so it automatically escapes all SQL. Finally throw in some sort of IDS depending what OS you are using. Nobody will care enough to shut you down. If they find the site, so what just clone a new one and use your PGP key to sign a msg on the front page letting ppl know you haven't been compromised. Can set this up in under an hour. My $0.02
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i actually like seeing "newbie" next to my name, it reminds me that even though i know and can do a lot i still have a lot to learn
Yeah, I get that. Personally I'm constantly aware that there's so much more to do and learn, but I certainly see your point.
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Problem with that old tutorial is it's using very buggy virtual machine software that hasn't been security audited for use in privacy critical hosting which is kind of insane. OS devs have been stamping out bugs in the x86 arch for decades and find new one's every day. Now you want to place a layer of extremely buggy mess code on top of that already terrible x86 arch and hope to god that it won't start page faulting or overflows. What if your attacker can get a shell and simply runs a tracert command or opens up lynx to find out the IP. No breaking out of the VM needed.
Running everything behind a firewall that uses Carp w/ Pfsense and using NAT to hand out internal IPs to your hardware separated web server and backend db through the DMZ seems to me like a lot more secure set up, though it will cost money (You can rent OpenBSD firewalls and other racks for dirt cheap per month). Now your OS is running on audited hardware, the webserver/db is behind NAT so attacker can't find out what they are, and the firewall is preventing all sorts of potential attacks both outgoing and incoming, and more importantly it's a separate piece of hardware with redundancy to prevent it crashing and an attacker from pinging out to get the IP.
Bonus is there's no VPS hosting company shady console access so you don't end up Linode-pwned since you're using all dedicated machines.
Article makes no mention of Resin http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/resin/ which MIT students taking network security graduate classes still use today. Every year since they came out with Resin, they choose 10 popular PHP forum software distributions and attack them all using known attacks, and a few of their own invented attacks and Resin so far has stopped them all. Without Resin the new attacks and even the old attacks with slight variations were able to fully exploit the application.
Article also makes no mention of CryptDB, a prototype MIT database that performs encrypted queries on encrypted data. The database entries are encrypted using the users password as a key. If they aren't logged in, and the box is seized then nobody can retrieve the information. All you need to do is add a few schema annotations to certain sensitive fields and can lock down an entire forum. Throw in Resin and nobody is exploiting shit unless of course, you're running a severely buggy virtual machine underneath it all that is a ticking overflow bomb.
Also is a very bad idea to use Abuse/Immunity Hosting Russian hosting for a Tor hidden service, since Tor there is a big democracy activist flag and they will take interest in shutting you down. It's typically at least 2-3x the regular price to use them, as they're primarily clearnet hosting for malware and spammers. I would just use any host recommended by Torservers.net in Germany or NL that they currently use so you blend in with the other Tor traffic.
If you just want to start your own tiny drug site then get a German VPS from torservers.net list of hosts and lock it down using the info from torservers.net relay setup guide, but don't edit the Torrc file for a relay, make it a hidden service. Build Nginx from source and look up how to edit out all the version information and headers, and other info that gives away IP address like in error pages. Compile it, run, good 2 go for any minor site. Fill the database with pregen bitcoin addresses and use Django so it automatically escapes all SQL. Finally throw in some sort of IDS depending what OS you are using. Nobody will care enough to shut you down. If they find the site, so what just clone a new one and use your PGP key to sign a msg on the front page letting ppl know you haven't been compromised. Can set this up in under an hour. My $0.02
Does it suggest to use virtualbox or FreeBSD jails, I can't remember? Apparently virtualbox from your comments though. Jails are pretty well audited for security and I would not have any problem to use jails for security critical things, Theo be damned. Virtualbox seems like it is not a good idea to use in many circumstances, including most that require security, however it has worked in the past to save hidden services from feds deanonymizing them. Layers and layers of security and there is pretty much always someone who has a better technique than the next guy, and someone with more skill than him. I suggest that you write an article. CryptDB looks interesting, have not looked much into it but I have been doing some research of encrypted keyword search and private information retrieval and have seen it mentioned. Have never heard of Resin before. The Russian cyber crime hosts are pretty good at not taking anything down, even highly illegal shit like botnet CNC to CP hosting. I would lean towards having that extra layer of resistance, particularly since hidden services are so easily deanonymized (actually I would probably lean towards hosting in some non-sketchy place and using Tor through Tor).
The conclusion I have come to regarding virtualbox is that it is much easier to pwn a guest VB OS than an OS running on real hardware, but it still does require the attacker to break out of the VM to get to the host (or your IP address if you have it configured correctly). How are they going to find the IP address without breaking out? Opening Lynx will not do shit for them if it is using host only routing with Tor on the host. Also you can have ASLR on the host so they will have a hard time to overflow out of the VM to the host, and you can have mandatory access controls locking the VM user down on the host, adding further protection. At the end of the day I lean against using virtualbox these days though. However I think it is kind of insane to run a server that is automatically deanonymized as soon as it is hacked, some level of isolation is required and using virtual machines is the easiest way to obtain this. For a client though, the risks of having the VM rooted outweigh the benefits of adding an additional layer between the attacker and your real IP address, they will just spy on your plaintexts and steal your address when you make an order. FreeBSD jails though do not have the weaknesses of VB in this respect.
Your best bet would be to run Tor on a dedicated machine and then have a machine running the web server that routes all of its traffic through the Tor machine and is itself assigned only an internal IP address. That is pretty much the platinum standard for how hidden services should be configured (and how ultra l33t clients should be configured). Throw Tor on an otherwise 'out of the box' OpenBSD machine and it should be pretty fucking hard for someone who roots the web server (or firefox) machine to get its real IP address.