Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amQuote from: LouisCyphre on July 24, 2012, 08:48 amAlso it's fun to imagine the collective brains of journalists implode when they try to grapple with the concept of human rights being protected and lives being saved by drug dealers.A bonus! I  bonuses! Mooooooar le brainzzz *slurp* -- zombiepineI thought you'd like that. ;)Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amQuote from: LouisCyphre on July 24, 2012, 08:48 amQuote from: pine on July 23, 2012, 04:12 amThe initial investment of time/energy/money however, I am convinced has to come from ourselves, we can't just simply wait to things to come along. To use the old hack sailing metaphor, it's all very well to be blown by the wind, but you have to also take the initiative and set your sails in order to influence outcomes. I am so busy myself, I simply cannot envisage a time inside of a year when I'll have enough opportunity, but it has to be done nonetheless.We all have busy schedules and there's an awful lot of work to be done.Sure, but the SpeakEasy Project has led the way, so that's an inspiration:http://xqz3u5drneuzhaeo.onion/users/anonymousanon/sfp/forum.html It certainly looks interesting, but I'd have to go through it in a little more detail and I don't have that kind of time right now. It'll have to wait at least a month or two.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amMany parts of the system have already been exhaustively argued about and at least a first design draft exists on paper. We don't have the code, but I think a fresh collection of eyes commanding the project would do it a world of good to get it off the ground. Thing is about most programmers, is they they are infamous procrastinators! I have the impression SE is basically stalling because of paralysis by analysis & perfectionism not to mention disillusionment with the two programmers fucking off halfway through the project twice and in two different languages (java and then ruby). If your typical manager know-nothing about code was running the show like a typical deliverable, then it would have been off the shop floor months ago. Buggy as fuck, but at least partially crystallized into a real thing with a bunch of bitching coders trying to stuff the most obvious holes in it asap with updates and two fingers to the boss.Coders generally only dive into things of their own volition when they've been hit by the fire to solve a nagging problem or produce something they want for themselves. Otherwise it usually requires a carrot and stick approach where the carrot is usually cash and the stick is usually a project manager.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amIn short, there is something to be said for ignorance, arrogance even. Look at the Tor Project. Those guys surely didn't have a fucking clue what they were facing with respect to the social/political ramifications when they started that project for sure. But they grew into it. That's kinda how high risk projects have to be. You kind of need a controlled way to fuck up repeatedly and recover from it. Knowing too much can make you indecisive.Yep, that's pretty much right on the money.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amtldr; I think agile works better because it fits human nature more so than a waterfall.Yes, that's why I think a modular design would be important. That way different coders can develop those parts which they are best suited to creating.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amQuote from: LouisCyphre on July 24, 2012, 08:48 amQuote from: pine on July 23, 2012, 04:12 amMaybe if SR had a prize, like the X-Prize, then the best hackers and vendors could auction for achieving results in software. I mean, we spend a great deal of time trying to obtain money and security, but we also have to look at the bigger picture if everything is ultimately going to pay off in the end. It's a classic problem of short-termism that afflicts myself and many others.Perhaps, but I'm not sure that keeping development within SR is the ideal method. I don't think there are enough coders with the skill to achieve the intended result. That's why I think you need to find a reason to create something similar that people out in the world would want to support it for in order to take advantage of the intelligence and skill of people who wouldn't normally support our interests.Absolutely. In fact the se project was at least partially doing that I think. I mean, I'm serious when I say there's only like 400 good cryptographers in the world, we can't have them all on a payroll, open source is superior. However I'd like to involve one or two genius research mathematicians I know, to throw something entirely novel into the equation so to speak, just for kicks, lulz.I know one or two of them, but luring them in would be ... problematic.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amKey problem is that LE know by now that something like SE is going to roll off the factory floor, so they are keeping their eyes peeled for interesting projects that seem parallel to that. Yup, I am that paranoid. I would avoid any interesting projects that are too convincingly useful for this reason. Because that's what I would do to get me :)That's to be expected.There are ways to get around that, though. Partially with pseudonymity and anonymity and partially to do with human nature. I'll PM you something on the latter.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amThis implies we have got to reduce a new se down to it's constituent components, spend a lot of time in the libraries, and act like bees collecting the nectar from various open source projects (to steal a metaphor from Strike!). It's just like how it is with the DEA banning certain chemicals or putting them onto watch lists, you just walk up the chemical tree to find the next precursor, and although it takes more effort, it means obtaining sources in huge quantities with zero risk since the DEA don't know what those precursors are, or at least can't stop them being sold without fucking with every other industry on the planet. Same with useful code.Again, this is where a modular system can help. Once the framework is in place the necessary modules can be produced relatively independently. Drupal is designed this way, but probably wouldn't be the best solution for this project.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amQuote from: LouisCyphre on July 24, 2012, 08:48 amMost law enforcement organisations are spending some time talking about the need for "cyber unit" or "cyber command" to focus on this sort of thing, rather than getting each officer across the issue. We should be able to take advantage of this.I think the nature of facing a truly effective foe, for the first time, would be so detrimental to morale that it would take an entirely new generation of cops to stand up and be counted. Most of the rest would flake out. Even in the FBI there are few serious contenders tech-wise. And their work I'm sure is mostly occupied, as it should be really, in tracking down tens of thousands of pedophiles on just this one network. I'd be a lot happier if they dedicated themselves entirely to that pursuit instead of going after people who choose to do drugs themselves. I'm all for dissolving the DEA and replacing it with the PEA.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amSure, they establish cyber units. It's not as if it was a choice, it was economical to do so. They have done so already at certain special HQs in the USA and Europe. Who cares. It's not as if SR is even the biggest game in town by a long shot seriously, there are fraudsters and carders extracting tens of billions off the clearnet. Just the RBN network alone! Jesus! We just happen to be publicly accessible here, that is all. Any move against SR is a political move, not a economical use of (scarce) resources.That is absolutely right. Organised crime syndicates in Eastern Europe make more money in a month than the entire Bitcoin market cap, let alone the fraction of that which is the SR trade.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amOn the other subject, it's interesting, but there is somewhat of an artificial bottleneck at the moment that makes it difficult for external black markets to adopt (idiot proof) bitcoin cash outs. Unless shopkeepers start accepting casascius! I think the way the black market will be affected by SR and Bitcoin is going to be somewhat different to this. I think SR and similar institutions will ultimately allow vertically integrated business models to exist for the first time in recent history outside of some grow-ops. I think the price point will be so damn good that the darknet black markets will swallow up the traditional black markets and hollow them out. That's a decade long process, but I'm as sure of this as I have been of anything.You're right, SR will be more likely to affect street prices before it reaches a point where BTC are used by the general public. That doesn't look too likely at this stage.As for shopkeepers, they will generally see tax related problems with accepting a currency that is not the currency of their region (i.e. state backed or the EUR).Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amIn short, I think the traditional black market will go into terminal decline in the long run with 99% of drug dealers losing their incomes, even to the point of the distribution network collapsing entirely in some areas, except for possibly h and cocaine (I think those will also collapse actually... but for a different fun reason I cannot elaborate on). The synthetics will triumph in the end I think, vertically integrated industry, anonymous networks and the mail services/dead drops. A new era of peace, temp unemployment, incredible riches for those agile enough to see it coming, huge harm reduction and better prices for consumers. If the management of some of the Cartels are smart enough to see it that will speed up the process, and if the politicians are intelligent enough to look out for the big picture so they stomp on Customs, then it could be a terrific grand bargain.If that happens then it will be a *long* way off.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amQuote from: LouisCyphre on July 24, 2012, 08:48 amQuote from: pine on July 23, 2012, 04:12 amAs for Topix and mainstream drug distribution networks, I believe they will eventually go the way of the dinosaur. SR has shown there is an enormous competitive advantage to the darknet economy because of the possibility of creating contracts, rules, expected standards of behavior for the entire market. This changes everything. This network, not tor or bitcoin, but ourselves, is going to set a standard for decades to come, things will never be the same.You're such an idealist, Pine. That's what I like about you. :)Somebody has to be.Heh.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amBesides, although the current economic situation is grim for this world, in the long term you have to believe in humanity to triumph over stupidity and stagnation. I mean there's evidence for it. We've had close on 400 years of progress in the West, and today the Asian subcontinent + China and Africa are streamrolling onto a better economic trajectory, so finally the rest of the human race as caught up with the basic rules that made the West powerful. Sure we have problems, but I mean come on!Yep, it is likely to be better for the whole world in the long term, but there will be a lot of ugliness before then.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amI mean, we could have World War III tomorrow, and that could make me look completely like slack jawed yokel with regard to the bigger picture. But I think even then a WWIII would not resemble anything like WWII, and as an overall percentage of world population, fewer would die, I think future wars will be very decentralized affairs indeed, hit & run, assassinations, selective intense bouts of violence in order to prevent resource destruction, zomg blackhelicopters in many cases and so on.We already have that. It's called The War on Terror. More like The War of Terror, though, or was mentioned in a few places when it began, The War on Terra.Quote from: pine on July 28, 2012, 06:31 amOr it could be like The Road. But that's not a line of thought that leads to much productivity.Crazy people with nukes and bio-weapons. A lot of people are still understandably afraid of that.