Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Jack N Hoff on July 08, 2013, 04:34 pm

Title: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 08, 2013, 04:34 pm
This guy is 100% right but the other vendor tries to blame it on rounding errors. ::)   http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=181490

Rounding errors do not cause fees to double...

I haven't bothered to ask about it until now but I'm actually quite curious as to what the new fees are.

So these were the fees before the recent "currency update."

$0 - 50 -> 10%
$50 - 150 -> 8.5%
$150 - 300 -> 6%
$300 - 500 -> 3%
$500 - 1000 -> 2%
$1000+ -> 1.5%

My $2,500 pre fee listing was $2,540 to $2,550 before this recent "currency update."  My listing now costs $2,600.70 after this "currency update."  So the fees on $1,000+ listings have doubled. 

What are the fees now?
Title: Re: SR fees increased after the last update without telling us. What are they now?
Post by: therabbithole on July 08, 2013, 05:01 pm
This guy is 100% right.  http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=181490


Bad link, can't read it.
Title: Re: SR fees increased after the last update without telling us. What are they now?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 08, 2013, 05:04 pm
This guy is 100% right.  http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=181490


Bad link, can't read it.

Vendor roundtable link.  I think the whole forum should address this issue.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the last update without informing us
Post by: Libertas on July 08, 2013, 05:31 pm
As stated in the Seller's Guide - the terms of which you agreed to be bound by upon becoming a vendor as part of the Seller Contract - the commission on any given sale depends on the total Bitcoin price and is subject to change at any time.

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Seller%27s_Guide#Pricing_and_commission
Quote from: Seller's Guide
Pricing and commission

You may peg the price of your listings to any of the currencies supported by Silk Road. All sales are settled in Bitcoins however, so if you peg to a currency other than Bitcoin, the final Bitcoin price of your item will fluctuate based on the exchange rate between Bitcoin and your peg currency.

You may also choose whether to set your price before or after commission is added. If you choose "pre-commission pricing", the price you set will be the amount of money you are paid when a transaction is complete, but your customers will see a higher price that includes the commission. If you choose "post-commission pricing", you set the price that your customers pay. When you get paid, the amount you receive will be less than this by the amount of the commission. The commission on any given sale depends on the total Bitcoin price and is subject to change at any time.

Libertas
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the last update without informing us
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 08, 2013, 05:37 pm
As stated in the Seller's Guide - the terms of which you agreed to be bound by upon becoming a vendor as part of the Seller Contract - the commission on any given sale depends on the total Bitcoin price and is subject to change at any time.

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Seller%27s_Guide#Pricing_and_commission
Quote from: Seller's Guide
Pricing and commission

You may peg the price of your listings to any of the currencies supported by Silk Road. All sales are settled in Bitcoins however, so if you peg to a currency other than Bitcoin, the final Bitcoin price of your item will fluctuate based on the exchange rate between Bitcoin and your peg currency.

You may also choose whether to set your price before or after commission is added. If you choose "pre-commission pricing", the price you set will be the amount of money you are paid when a transaction is complete, but your customers will see a higher price that includes the commission. If you choose "post-commission pricing", you set the price that your customers pay. When you get paid, the amount you receive will be less than this by the amount of the commission. The commission on any given sale depends on the total Bitcoin price and is subject to change at any time.

Libertas

So they raised the fees without telling us because they can.  I understand that.  The fee bracket for $1,000+ listings has doubled.

I'll ask again, what are the fees now?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the last update without informing us
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 08, 2013, 05:38 pm
$0 - 50 -> ??%
$50 - 150 -> ??%
$150 - 300 -> ?%
$300 - 500 -> ?%
$500 - 1000 -> ?%
$1000+ -> 3%
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the last update without informing us
Post by: zxydwx3 on July 08, 2013, 05:48 pm
That is just beyond pompous to just say "you agreed to these terms", while avoiding the actual question.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the last update without informing us
Post by: ronswanson77 on July 08, 2013, 06:08 pm
I mean would it be so hard to post something in the forum that is only for vendors saying "Oh uh hey by the way guys we decided to double our commissions on stuff you're selling"

Shouldn't vendors have the opportunity to update their pricing if they would choose to do so?

I mean communication is key in any business or community.. isn't SR both?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: farmer1 on July 08, 2013, 06:47 pm
From my listings I see:

$0 - 50 -> ??%
$50 - 150 -> 10%
$150 - 300 -> 8%
$300 - 500 -> 7%
$500 - 1000 -> ?%
$1000+ -> 3%


They have most likely increased the rates to make up for the money they lose hedging ATM.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the last update without informing us
Post by: Libertas on July 08, 2013, 07:15 pm
That is just beyond pompous to just say "you agreed to these terms", while avoiding the actual question.

I did not just say "you agreed to these terms", whilst avoiding the actual question. I stated as part of the very same sentence that the commission on any given sale depends on the total Bitcoin price and is subject to change at any time; ergo it would not be prudent for me to discuss commission rates - they are set by DPR, and are subject to change at any time as stated in the Seller's Guide.

Libertas
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 08, 2013, 07:15 pm
From my listings I see:

$0 - 50 -> ??%
$50 - 150 -> 10%
$150 - 300 -> 8%
$300 - 500 -> 7%
$500 - 1000 -> ?%
$1000+ -> 3%

That's a nice 233.33% increase on the $300 to $500 bracket. 8)
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: sleeptight on July 08, 2013, 07:42 pm
Wow. Never thought the fees were that high. More in the 1-5% range o_O
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on July 08, 2013, 08:35 pm
Sure, the fees can change at anytime. That's what it says.

But how about posting the new fee schedule? Can DPR at least do that? Why "sneak in" the new fees?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ChemCat on July 08, 2013, 11:52 pm
good lord how  did i miss this :o



shoot did anyone even get a msg that the % was going to be raised?

???

i mean i this will drive prices up and sales down ....or am i just incorrect ???
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Crazy Eights on July 09, 2013, 12:39 am
Yes, I just messaged SR support for their newest fee structure & I'll post their answer
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ecstasydude on July 09, 2013, 01:01 am
So this is what it costs to keep SR afloat.

Interesting.

Cant sail the sea, if you cant afford the ship.

When the Commission Fees change... the current listings need to auto lock, and also to have a Warning sign for vendors...

saying.... >>>>>Attention Vendors: Commission Rate Change to x%, on top of their SR Page. <<<<<






Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: nacho on July 09, 2013, 03:59 am
This is what is happening....

Before the bitcoin crash no vendor was hedging because vendors were making a profit off the crazy rise of bitcoin.  Well once it crashed everyone started hedging their shit.   And as bitcoins continue to fall SR is taking a beating.   So the vendor fees went up so they can continue to make money.   This doesn't answer your question on what they are now.. this is just why.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Romero on July 09, 2013, 05:19 am
This is what is happening....

Before the bitcoin crash no vendor was hedging because vendors were making a profit off the crazy rise of bitcoin.  Well once it crashed everyone started hedging their shit.   And as bitcoins continue to fall SR is taking a beating.   So the vendor fees went up so they can continue to make money.   This doesn't answer your question on what they are now.. this is just why.

So do you (or anyone reading this) think it's a temporary thing until SR makes its money back? It's hard to imagine SR would permanently change its fees without telling everyone. And, regarding OP, the new fees apparently have nothing to do with the currency update?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 09, 2013, 05:40 am
And, regarding OP, the new fees apparently have nothing to do with the currency update?

They changed the fees during the update.  That is all I know.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on July 09, 2013, 06:07 am
No one has the new schedule yet?

Sent a message to Support asking them for it. Also suggested that they should arrange a mass mailing of the new schedule to all registered vendors.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Koltbiz on July 09, 2013, 07:15 am
Don't be lazy people, I just tested some listings to see what the new fees were.

Here are the results:

$5 -> 10%
$25 -> 10%
$75 -> 9.5%
$125 -> 9%
$175 -> 8.5%
$225 -> 8%
$275 -> 7.5%
$375 -> 7%
$500 -> 6.25%
$750 -> 5.30%
$1000 -> 4.75%
$1500 -> 4.25%
+$2500 -> 4%

The calculations were made by (POSTcomm - PREcomm)*0.01 = %

Koltbiz
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 09, 2013, 07:35 am
$5 -> 10%
$25 -> 10%
$75 -> 9.5%
$125 -> 9%
$175 -> 8.5%
$225 -> 8%
$275 -> 7.5%
$375 -> 7%
$500 -> 6.25%
$750 -> 5.30%
$1000 -> 4.75%
$1500 -> 4.25%
+$2500 -> 4%

Daaaaamn!  $1,000 listing fees more than tripled! :o
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Tessellated on July 09, 2013, 07:47 am
It would have been nice to notify the vendors of this change. We have a business model that depends on knowing that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: b0m on July 09, 2013, 07:51 am
Wow.... Im in shock actually. What is happening here?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: punchdrunk on July 09, 2013, 08:51 am
*gulp*

maybe there's a simple explanation?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: MaidMandy on July 09, 2013, 09:29 am
It would have been courteous to let vendors know that the fees were going up! DPR and the SR staff must be a busy group of people, but common courtesy goes along way, especially when vendors have loyal customers, who are now seeing the prices of their orders rise, without explanation :)
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 09, 2013, 10:17 am
sub'ing
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Crazy Eights on July 09, 2013, 10:33 am
Here's the SR Support response to my inquiry on the commission fee change;



Dread Pirate Roberts    I sent a message out to all active sellers about this before the update. The entire system is now bitcoin centric, so the commission is based off of the bitcoin price. Because of the volatility of the price of bitcoins relative to other currencies, the commission will be changed from time to time to accommodate. If you'd like to know the commission on any of your listings, you can set your account to pre-commission pricing and compare the price on your listed items page to the price seen on the item page, just make sure you have the same currency selected for viewing and pegging prices. Please keep in mind that it can take up to an hour for the price on the item page to update.            9 hours    read  delete

Crazy Eights(100)    Please confirm SR's new fee structure for Sellers as we've not seen any announcements

Thanks,

ce
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: thebakertrio on July 09, 2013, 12:17 pm
It would have been nice to notify the vendors of this change. We have a business model that depends on knowing that sort of thing.

The world calls us drug dealers the scum of the earth when we are just like the people on walstreet except most of us provide a service that does not fuck over millions of people or destroys the economy at large for personal gain.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: b0m on July 09, 2013, 01:27 pm
Quote
I sent a message out to all active sellers about this before the update.

Orly? I am active since 2 Month but i have not seen such a message?

Did ANY vendor get such a message? Please write here then and provide the message if possible?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 09, 2013, 01:55 pm
Quote
I sent a message out to all active sellers about this before the update.

Orly? I am active since 2 Month but i have not seen such a message?

Did ANY vendor get such a message? Please write here then and provide the message if possible?

I have multiple active vendor accounts.  No one got a message.  At least not in our inbox. :o
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: terpene on July 09, 2013, 02:40 pm
This is news to me !

I have no active listings at the moment so I didn't notice they'd increased commission.

No message received.

Feels like the start of an 'exit strategy'?

terp
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ThatDub on July 09, 2013, 02:49 pm
And usually DPR would chime in on threads like these; at least by the third page... I'm hoping he's just backed up, and that he didn't disappear/go-rogue/get "hacked," etc, etc.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on July 09, 2013, 03:23 pm
Quote
I sent a message out to all active sellers about this before the update.

Orly? I am active since 2 Month but i have not seen such a message?

Did ANY vendor get such a message? Please write here then and provide the message if possible?

I have multiple active vendor accounts.  No one got a message.  At least not in our inbox. :o

No message sent to us either.

Strange.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ItalianMafiaBrussels on July 09, 2013, 03:38 pm
Quote
I sent a message out to all active sellers about this before the update.

Orly? I am active since 2 Month but i have not seen such a message?

Did ANY vendor get such a message? Please write here then and provide the message if possible?

I also never received a message
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: DealerOfDrugs on July 09, 2013, 03:46 pm
Quote
I sent a message out to all active sellers about this before the update.

Orly? I am active since 2 Month but i have not seen such a message?

Did ANY vendor get such a message? Please write here then and provide the message if possible?

I also never received a message

Well thats because your not active.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Synthiotics on July 09, 2013, 04:03 pm
Quote
I sent a message out to all active sellers about this before the update.

Orly? I am active since 2 Month but i have not seen such a message?

Did ANY vendor get such a message? Please write here then and provide the message if possible?

I also never received a message

Well thats because your not active.

I am active, multiple accounts, no message.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: DealerOfDrugs on July 09, 2013, 04:39 pm
Quote
I sent a message out to all active sellers about this before the update.

Orly? I am active since 2 Month but i have not seen such a message?

Did ANY vendor get such a message? Please write here then and provide the message if possible?

I also never received a message

Well thats because your not active.

I am active, multiple accounts, no message.

I was being sarcastic. :(
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: BlueGiraffe on July 09, 2013, 05:44 pm
I did not get a notification email either - highly discourteous. And seemingly out of character for DPR - at least the character I have formed in my mind from reading his posts.

There are a few things that are also odd about the response apparently from DPR posted above:

"...is based off of the bitcoin price." is not the kind of English he used to speak.

"Because of the volatility of the price of bitcoins relative to other currencies, the commission will be changed from time to time to accommodate" does not make any sense at all. It's a commission, so it's not affected by the volatility of exchange rates. Accommodate what exactly??

Why should vendors have to "work out" their commission? This is something so fundamental to our business relationship that it should be transparently and explicitly communicated at all times. Ideally there should be a permanent link to the current commission schedule.

To not inform at all, and then to suggest that vendors have been told when they haven't been (seems pretty clear that no-one has seen a notification) is very off on both counts - once again very un-DPR like.

Fuck sakes we're running a business based on margins - this is not trivial information. Those running post-commission pricing are earning less than they think, and the customers of those running pre-commission pricing are wondering why the fuck all the prices just went up. Either way it's highly unprofessional.

Something smells not quite kosher here in my opinion...

BG
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Tessellated on July 09, 2013, 05:48 pm
Quote
I sent a message out to all active sellers about this before the update.

Orly? I am active since 2 Month but i have not seen such a message?

Did ANY vendor get such a message? Please write here then and provide the message if possible?

I got no such message. I am in the top 1% so I guess I am considered an "active" vendor.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: CHROOT on July 09, 2013, 05:48 pm
But they should have made a very public announcement prior to the change. Sneaking this change in fees in was a low move.

+1

Vendors have expenses and need to balance their books too, and it's hard to do this when you put in a 300% increase on items and don't tell your vendors about it.

Worse still is the arrogance to then defend it with lies like, "We sent out a message to vendors alerting them of this" when they obviously did not.


Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: UV on July 09, 2013, 05:51 pm
What are the actual fees then? I'm new and I was lead to believe it was 10% or something?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the last update without informing us
Post by: BlueGiraffe on July 09, 2013, 05:55 pm
That is just beyond pompous to just say "you agreed to these terms", while avoiding the actual question.

I did not just say "you agreed to these terms", whilst avoiding the actual question. I stated as part of the very same sentence that the commission on any given sale depends on the total Bitcoin price and is subject to change at any time; ergo it would not be prudent for me to discuss commission rates - they are set by DPR, and are subject to change at any time as stated in the Seller's Guide.

Libertas

Libertas,

With respect, I disagree with your assessment.

Commission rates should be transparently and explicitly communicated at all times. They are fundamental to the implicit contractual relationship between DPR and all vendors. It is one of the most important aspects of our business relationship.

"Subject to change at any time" is totally fine. However this does not negate the common courtesy of communicating about this when they do in fact change, nor does it remove the basic requirement for these rates to actually be known. It goes to transparency and integrity.

I have respect for your presence on the forums, and so I feel comfortable inviting you to re-visit your response to this matter.

BG
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 09, 2013, 06:34 pm
as said in the other topic (by smokecrack):

I agree with BlueG.
Off course, I'm just a "buyer" so I don't follow everything like you guys do - but to me the system is important (I believe in it! - in the freedom of personal choice it brings to people, in the way it brings the responsibility to them instead of putting them in jail...) and seeing something happening that could hurt the system makes me sad...

I'm gone start to collect all your mail-addresses (.onion off course) - just in case something happens here... those of you who know me will know why.

PS: I hope we'll get a reply from Libertas (or another moderator) - but it seems to me this is taking lots of time...
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: BruceCampbell on July 09, 2013, 06:53 pm
All I'm going to say is thanks for giving Atlantis a new talking point fellas. I'm not affected by this much because most of my listings are not very high priced, but god damn...

Not only did I not receive a message, I honestly find this sketchy as all hell. Just from a lack of transparency.

I've got buyers asking me to pay in Moneypak because they can't get bitcoin and I haven't had an order in a few days and raising my commission prices is not helping customers who have to pay for hedging and shipping as well as commission. I'm sure as hell not making any higher priced listings at the moment.

WEAK SAUCE GENTLEMEN... Weaksauce.

BOOOOOOOOO!
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 09, 2013, 07:38 pm
I just read through this whole thread.  It doesn't take much for some of you to start slinging accusations does it?

Apparently the message I sent out to vendors did not go through.  It explained the effect of the new currency pegging system to them, as well as how to set their accounts so that the change in commission would affect their prices in the way they wanted.  I apologize that it did not through.  Next time I send a message to all of the vendors, I'll double check.

The commission has always been opaque to buyers and vendors have the option to use pre or post commission pricing so they can control how their products are priced in the market, or how much they get in payment.  I don't know why some of you are offended by this change and thinking there is some kind of conspiracy going on.  I've always reserved the right to change the commission at any time and sellers have the tools they need to control how their payments are affected by changes in the commission. 

Also, to some of you saying things like "it's tripled", your math is wrong, try again.  You are comparing two different types of commission schedules.

Tesselated, according to your post it sounds like you had your listings set to post-commission pricing.  As stated in the Seller's Guide, if you want to ensure you are paid a specific amount, you must choose pre-commission pricing.  If there is something else going on, feel free to pm me.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: HeatFireFlame on July 09, 2013, 07:47 pm
I read this whole thread earlier but didnt have time to reply, This is kind of fucked up, the admins/dpr have all the rights to dictate the prices whenever they want, however they SHOULD inform people.
Im going to be making the vendor plunge and things like this make you even more hesitant, I hope im not going to make the plunge too late.
Concerning the other thread about the site changing hands... I really dont know, I doubt t would have happened, but who am i to know? I am a mere pawn in the whole game. But things are definetely going down.. Its impossible for things not to, time changes so must technology, Im not sure what, But i try to think about it this way, before Sr there were ways of getting drugs , Now theres SR, and i hope there will be ways afterwards.

Its our job as a community to keep this place alive. I hope it wont self destruct from the inside out with people getting all "conspiricy theory" on it. Sr is a great place and we need to do all we can to keep it alive.

(just saw dprs comment about the message going out, if this is right why the hell is everyone making a fuss if you were informed??)

Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: BruceCampbell on July 09, 2013, 07:48 pm
I think conspiracy is a strong word but looking at it from the perspective of Atlantis, if I were them I'd go ahead and run with the FUD and say "our commission rates are lower than Silk Road, and aren't subject to mysterious and unannounced changes."

I'm getting paid the same regardless, so I could care less. The problem is going to be people thinking I'm charging more than I am when they're paying more for a listing.

Lol. Al-Queda emailed their entire mailing list to a journalist on accident once. Worst things have happened with bulk reply messages. CC has ruined lives.



Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Tyrion Lannister on July 09, 2013, 07:50 pm
I just read through this whole thread.  It doesn't take much for some of you to start slinging accusations does it?

Apparently the message I sent out to vendors did not go through.  It explained the effect of the new currency pegging system to them, as well as how to set their accounts so that the change in commission would affect their prices in the way they wanted.  I apologize that it did not through.  Next time I send a message to all of the vendors, I'll double check.

The commission has always been opaque to buyers and vendors have the option to use pre or post commission pricing so they can control how their products are priced in the market, or how much they get in payment.  I don't know why some of you are offended by this change and thinking there is some kind of conspiracy going on.  I've always reserved the right to change the commission at any time and sellers have the tools they need to control how their payments are affected by changes in the commission. 

Also, to some of you saying things like "it's tripled", your math is wrong, try again.  You are comparing two different types of commission schedules.

Tesselated, according to your post it sounds like you had your listings set to post-commission pricing.  As stated in the Seller's Guide, if you want to ensure you are paid a specific amount, you must choose pre-commission pricing.  If there is something else going on, feel free to pm me.

Nice to hear news on this subject. As your response is the 51th of this topic, i would suggest you open a new tread so everyone can see it.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on July 09, 2013, 08:02 pm
Having done the calculations (Vendors, see vendor section), the majority of vendors wouldn't even notice the change. It's actually quite minor to very slightly in the vendor's favor for listings $500 and under. Listings between $500 to $1000, it's a few dollars more. We're talking about $1 to $8 increase or so. But after $1000, the fees go up a lot. Both in percentage terms and dollar terms. But not enough to significantly impact profit margins at bulk pricing.

For instance, a $1500 listing will have a new commission of ~ $62. Under the old schedule, the same $1500 listing was $46. That's a $16 increase. Can't imagine that's going to really hurt any vendor with listings at this level. If margins are *that* tight at this price level, small BTC fluctuations would be killer.

Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on July 09, 2013, 08:03 pm
Oh, hai DPR. :)
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 09, 2013, 08:26 pm
Having done the calculations (Vendors, see vendor section), the majority of vendors wouldn't even notice the change. It's actually quite minor to very slightly in the vendor's favor for listings $500 and under. Listings between $500 to $1000, it's a few dollars more. We're talking about $1 to $8 increase or so. But after $1000, the fees go up a lot. Both in percentage terms and dollar terms. But not enough to significantly impact profit margins at bulk pricing.

For instance, a $1500 listing will have a new commission of ~ $62. Under the old schedule, the same $1500 listing was $46. That's a $16 increase. Can't imagine that's going to really hurt any vendor with listings at this level. If margins are *that* tight at this price level, small BTC fluctuations would be killer.

thank you for bringing some sanity to the conversation.  funny how no one to this point had noticed that the commission decreased for some listings.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: nuggets5 on July 09, 2013, 08:29 pm
Now people like me who is buying 15k worth of stuff at a time is screwed. I now have to pay way more than I was used too.

Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Tessellated on July 09, 2013, 08:34 pm
Part of the confusion was that people were trying to derive what the commission is by fiddling with listings. If the fees were more transparent then people might not have gotten the wrong idea.

Someone posted early in the thread with numbers that made the change sound very large, given that there is no way to actually look at what fees we are being charged it was believed. Now someone else is presenting other numbers, I don't know who is right. I am still having trouble knowing what the actual change was.

I apologize if I overreacted, but it is very hard to know how to react when I cannot easily see what has changed.

Please make a page that makes the current fees clear, a page that changes when the fees change. This alone could have avoided much of the uncertainty and confusion today.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: BruceCampbell on July 09, 2013, 08:38 pm
We have no idea what changed or didn't change if we don't have a commission list or get notified boss. What's the new scale?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 09, 2013, 08:40 pm
Part of the confusion was that people were trying to derive what the commission is by fiddling with listings. If the fees were more transparent then people might not have gotten the wrong idea.

Someone posted early in the thread with numbers that made the change sound very large, given that there is no way to actually look at what fees we are being charged it was believed. Now someone else is presenting other numbers, I don't know who is right. I am still having trouble knowing what the actual change was.

I apologize if I overreacted, but it is very hard to know how to react when I cannot easily see what has changed.

Please make a page that makes the current fees clear, a page that changes when the fees change. This alone could have avoided much of the uncertainty and confusion today.

I can tell you that the fee for my $2,500 USD listing is $100.80 USD and that the fee used to be just under $50 USD.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ReD EyE on July 09, 2013, 08:42 pm
I definitely remember reading that update, so I just went to go fetch the message to post contents here and I cant find it no more, so gremlins?.  ;D  I defo remember reading that though!.

Why are people assuming DPR is still not at the helm? cause of some adjustments in the way stuff is pronounced?, or how it what ever it may be said on the forums.

 If I was DPR I would be doing stuff like that constantly to shake of any idea that people would try to deduce info from it?.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: NorthernStar on July 09, 2013, 08:43 pm
We have no idea what changed or didn't change if we don't have a commission list or get notified boss. What's the new scale?

 You filthy wog, don't PM me again or I will burn your black ass on the cross like your grandfather was by the KKK. Animal.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: nuggets5 on July 09, 2013, 08:50 pm
Every time I buy I spend about 15k. Now I have to spend 15, 300. This increased  an extra 300 FUCKING DOLLARS OVERNIGHT.


I am pissed. And what else pisses me off is that they let scammers stay here even after they know they are scammers just to get increased revenue then they dump them when everyone is freaking out. They continue to BS us and say they will look into it, well when they see the vendor is down to 70%, they still let them go for an extra day or two. I am personally going to tell my vendors to start vending to me on Atlantis. Sorry SR, I have spent FAR to much. This is a slippery slope.


Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Andrewbud420 on July 09, 2013, 08:56 pm
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=182042.0

That thread is a joke. People go mental over a change.. Start crying that SR was sold because the fee change was noticed this time around.


Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: CHROOT on July 09, 2013, 09:32 pm


Apparently the message I sent out to vendors did not go through.  It explained the effect of the new currency pegging system to them, as well as how to set their accounts so that the change in commission would affect their prices in the way they wanted.  I apologize that it did not through.  Next time I send a message to all of the vendors, I'll double check.


How about posting this vendor message or sending it again so there is no confusion. If this was indeed a simple mistake, it can just as easily be rectified. Just send out the new fee structure memo like you said you've done and it will put this whole thing to rest.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: BlueGiraffe on July 09, 2013, 09:34 pm
I just read through this whole thread.  It doesn't take much for some of you to start slinging accusations does it?

Apparently the message I sent out to vendors did not go through.  It explained the effect of the new currency pegging system to them, as well as how to set their accounts so that the change in commission would affect their prices in the way they wanted.  I apologize that it did not through.  Next time I send a message to all of the vendors, I'll double check.

The commission has always been opaque to buyers and vendors have the option to use pre or post commission pricing so they can control how their products are priced in the market, or how much they get in payment.  I don't know why some of you are offended by this change and thinking there is some kind of conspiracy going on.  I've always reserved the right to change the commission at any time and sellers have the tools they need to control how their payments are affected by changes in the commission. 

Also, to some of you saying things like "it's tripled", your math is wrong, try again.  You are comparing two different types of commission schedules.

Tesselated, according to your post it sounds like you had your listings set to post-commission pricing.  As stated in the Seller's Guide, if you want to ensure you are paid a specific amount, you must choose pre-commission pricing.  If there is something else going on, feel free to pm me.

DPR,

Thank you for addressing this - it was quite vital that you did, and I am sure it is appreciated by all here.

For me this was never about the money, rather a concern about an apparent values shift in how things are communicated on Silk Road.

Your explanation about the email not being sent is a valid one and makes sense of the confusion. Perhaps of utility right now would be for you to re-send that email to all vendors, with a brief note about it not being delivered the first time. I believe that will rectify any perceptions that have gone awry.

And if I may suggest... perhaps you could PGP sign a further response in this thread so that those who know how to verify these things (not me) can indeed confirm that you are... well, you :)  Pine??

I think you know that pretty much everyone here accords you the highest respect - and even affection (I do), and it is because of this I believe that some were sensitized to this matter more than they might otherwise be.

Looking forward to your response, and to getting back to scrubbing the deck! Captain.

BG
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: slash on July 09, 2013, 10:01 pm
lol DPR the genius that sets up silkroad isn t able to send a message properly

it is hard to believe
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Andrewbud420 on July 09, 2013, 10:07 pm
lol DPR the genius that sets up silkroad isn t able to send a message properly

it is hard to believe

Are you saying that you're perfect and have never made a mistake?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: slash on July 09, 2013, 10:12 pm
lol DPR the genius that sets up silkroad isn t able to send a message properly

it is hard to believe

Are you saying that you're perfect and have never made a mistake?
Im saying that it is hard to believe
If I tell you I fucked your wife you are going to say It is hard to believe
it is exactly the same
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ReD EyE on July 09, 2013, 10:25 pm
 :o

Why do people moan about a super fantastic idea, that suits everyone here with a unique take on life, and the mad risk involved in all of this service provided to all?.

Where would we all be if The DPR never went ahead, because of the risks involved, lets face if they are ever unlucky enough to get caught it wont be a heavy penal imposed sentence. ! they will be lucky to ever see the light of day!.

So what the fuck are we moaning about?, a hiccup, a glith, these thing do happen and as i said prior i already read this before the post on the up date so once again Gremlins.?

And what are we here moaning about.   I think some need to rethink just what it is they have been given.

And no I am not knocking on the people asking the right questions about the price changes, its the dancing bitchin about it all.   

How about a thanks To the team behind it all, for the opportunity's we have all been given.

I for one are incredibly grateful.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Lorimer on July 09, 2013, 10:27 pm
The seller's fees on SR are around half of what Amazon docks its sellers for - they start at 8% and go up to 25%. The average eBay selling fee (incl listing fees & PayPal) is over 20%. I dunno, guys. If these vendor prices were advertised widely SR might end up flooded w/ eBay sellers looking to get more for their white market goods). ;)

I def think that fee changes should be clearly communicated to vendors (& that someone do a double check to see they were delivered...? ) but man - why so quick to assume something shady is going on?  It's not SR's fault that BTC tanked recently & that basic fact makes way more sense than conspiracies and a change in site ownership etc.

I have no idea how many ppl are behind the scenes on SR, but I do know it would be easy for whomever it is that calls the shots to just pull the plug & walk. I'm just happy the site is still here.

Edit to add a +1 for ReD EyE & + karma to everyone who keeps SR running. You guys don't hear it enough.

(And to all you tinfoil hat-wearers who need something to be paranoid about - Have you forgotten about psyops? Insinuation is a classic technique for dividing a target against itself. Don't let yourselves be taken in!!! ;D  )

Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: HeatFireFlame on July 09, 2013, 11:07 pm
I just read through this whole thread.  It doesn't take much for some of you to start slinging accusations does it?

Apparently the message I sent out to vendors did not go through.  It explained the effect of the new currency pegging system to them, as well as how to set their accounts so that the change in commission would affect their prices in the way they wanted.  I apologize that it did not through.  Next time I send a message to all of the vendors, I'll double check.

The commission has always been opaque to buyers and vendors have the option to use pre or post commission pricing so they can control how their products are priced in the market, or how much they get in payment.  I don't know why some of you are offended by this change and thinking there is some kind of conspiracy going on.  I've always reserved the right to change the commission at any time and sellers have the tools they need to control how their payments are affected by changes in the commission. 

Also, to some of you saying things like "it's tripled", your math is wrong, try again.  You are comparing two different types of commission schedules.

Tesselated, according to your post it sounds like you had your listings set to post-commission pricing.  As stated in the Seller's Guide, if you want to ensure you are paid a specific amount, you must choose pre-commission pricing.  If there is something else going on, feel free to pm me.

DPR,

Thank you for addressing this - it was quite vital that you did, and I am sure it is appreciated by all here.

For me this was never about the money, rather a concern about an apparent values shift in how things are communicated on Silk Road.

Your explanation about the email not being sent is a valid one and makes sense of the confusion. Perhaps of utility right now would be for you to re-send that email to all vendors, with a brief note about it not being delivered the first time. I believe that will rectify any perceptions that have gone awry.

And if I may suggest... perhaps you could PGP sign a further response in this thread so that those who know how to verify these things (not me) can indeed confirm that you are... well, you :)  Pine??

I think you know that pretty much everyone here accords you the highest respect - and even affection (I do), and it is because of this I believe that some were sensitized to this matter more than they might otherwise be.

Looking forward to your response, and to getting back to scrubbing the deck! Captain.

BG
I second this, DPr you have my respect, but please for all of our satisfaction do what the "old" you would do, also it will snip all these stupid rumors in the bud.
Post this message again for clarification as EVERY vendor seems to have had it deleted from their inbox, sign it with your own pgp and allow somebody technical to work over it.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ReD EyE on July 09, 2013, 11:09 pm
The seller's fees on SR are around half of what Amazon docks its sellers for - they start at 8% and go up to 25%. The average eBay selling fee (incl listing fees & PayPal) is over 20%. I dunno, guys. If these vendor prices were advertised widely SR might end up flooded w/ eBay sellers looking to get more for their white market goods). ;)

I def think that fee changes should be clearly communicated to vendors (& that someone do a double check to see they were delivered...? ) but man - why so quick to assume something shady is going on?  It's not SR's fault that BTC tanked recently & that basic fact makes way more sense than conspiracies and a change in site ownership etc.

I have no idea how many ppl are behind the scenes on SR, but I do know it would be easy for whomever it is that calls the shots to just pull the plug & walk. I'm just happy the site is still here.

Edit to add a +1 for ReD EyE & + karma to everyone who keeps SR running. You guys don't hear it enough.

(And to all you tinfoil hat-wearers who need something to be paranoid about - Have you forgotten about psyops? Insinuation is a classic technique for dividing a target against itself. Don't let yourselves be taken in!!! ;D  )

The fee changes was sent, but how many time's does it have to of been repeated till everyone lets it sink in, i'm new here so yer i might be biased in my fresh approach.

At being given this opportunity, but i'm f7&^*n.   

Sooooo Soooo Sooo glad I did.

And I cant thank The Team involved enough.                            simple..   

Only been in business 18 days and surpassed the $1500 in sales about 4 days ago.

So STOP all your whinging, babies climb back into your COT.  Stop spitting out your dummy's.   


It was sent with intent.  THE UPDATE to all but glitched no point in draggin it up, anyways the fact we are here and DPR has answered it still wont stop the flow...           pfft im away to me sleep.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 09, 2013, 11:12 pm


Apparently the message I sent out to vendors did not go through.  It explained the effect of the new currency pegging system to them, as well as how to set their accounts so that the change in commission would affect their prices in the way they wanted.  I apologize that it did not through.  Next time I send a message to all of the vendors, I'll double check.


How about posting this vendor message or sending it again so there is no confusion. If this was indeed a simple mistake, it can just as easily be rectified. Just send out the new fee structure memo like you said you've done and it will put this whole thing to rest.

Everything I said in the original message, which I guess some of you didn't receive, has already been said now.  I'm not publishing the entire commission algorithm because it is subject to change at any time, and I don't need to update everyone every time an adjustment is made.  Buyers, simply look at the final prices in the market and decide whether a purchase is worth it or not, the costs that make up that price, including commission, are not laid out, just like in the grocery store or any retail outlet.  Sellers, I've given you all of the tools you need to see exactly how much commission is being charged on your individual listings and how you want your prices to behave when adjustments are made to the commission.

That's the whole story folks.  As some have pointed out, the commission that is charged is way lower than what I could get away with.  I keep it low because we bring in enough at low levels to keep things going and growing.  I can't tell you how many times vendors have come to me thanking me for helping them turn their lives around and making them and their families rich.  You think I couldn't have squeezed that profit over to my side if I wanted to?  Of course I could have, but I didn't.

Not sure what else to say except that I'm a normal person just like you.  I got messages from maybe a couple of you asking about this and then found this whole ridiculous outcry on the forum.  I read and answer almost all of my mail, yet more than one of you are here making unfounded claims, complaining, insulting and even accusing me of nasty things without messaging me first, or waiting for my reply.

I'm getting back to work now.  Hopefully this post has provided a bit of perspective rather than stirring up more animosity.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ReD EyE on July 09, 2013, 11:17 pm


Apparently the message I sent out to vendors did not go through.  It explained the effect of the new currency pegging system to them, as well as how to set their accounts so that the change in commission would affect their prices in the way they wanted.  I apologize that it did not through.  Next time I send a message to all of the vendors, I'll double check.


How about posting this vendor message or sending it again so there is no confusion. If this was indeed a simple mistake, it can just as easily be rectified. Just send out the new fee structure memo like you said you've done and it will put this whole thing to rest.

Everything I said in the original message, which I guess some of you didn't receive, has already been said now.  I'm not publishing the entire commission algorithm because it is subject to change at any time, and I don't need to update everyone every time an adjustment is made.  Buyers, simply look at the final prices in the market and decide whether a purchase is worth it or not, the costs that make up that price, including commission, are not laid out, just like in the grocery store or any retail outlet.  Sellers, I've given you all of the tools you need to see exactly how much commission is being charged on your individual listings and how you want your prices to behave when adjustments are made to the commission.

That's the whole story folks.  As some have pointed out, the commission that is charged is way lower than what I could get away with.  I keep it low because we bring in enough at low levels to keep things going and growing.  I can't tell you how many times vendors have come to me thanking me for helping them turn their lives around and making them and their families rich.  You think I couldn't have squeezed that profit over to my side if I wanted to?  Of course I could have, but I didn't.

Not sure what else to say except that I'm a normal person just like you.  I got messages from maybe a couple of you asking about this and then found this whole ridiculous outcry on the forum.  I read and answer almost all of my mail, yet more than one of you are here making unfounded claims, complaining, insulting and even accusing me of nasty things without messaging me first, or waiting for my reply.

I'm getting back to work now.  Hopefully this post has provided a bit of perspective rather than stirring up more animosity.


*** I can't tell you how many times vendors have come to me thanking me for helping them turn their lives around and making them and their families rich. ****



RIGHT ON you got no idea what you have enabled me to do...
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 09, 2013, 11:33 pm
Everything I said in the original message, which I guess some of you didn't receive, has already been said now.  I'm not publishing the entire commission algorithm because it is subject to change at any time, and I don't need to update everyone every time an adjustment is made.  Buyers, simply look at the final prices in the market and decide whether a purchase is worth it or not, the costs that make up that price, including commission, are not laid out, just like in the grocery store or any retail outlet.  Sellers, I've given you all of the tools you need to see exactly how much commission is being charged on your individual listings and how you want your prices to behave when adjustments are made to the commission.

That's the whole story folks.  As some have pointed out, the commission that is charged is way lower than what I could get away with.  I keep it low because we bring in enough at low levels to keep things going and growing.  I can't tell you how many times vendors have come to me thanking me for helping them turn their lives around and making them and their families rich.  You think I couldn't have squeezed that profit over to my side if I wanted to?  Of course I could have, but I didn't.

Not sure what else to say except that I'm a normal person just like you.  I got messages from maybe a couple of you asking about this and then found this whole ridiculous outcry on the forum.  I read and answer almost all of my mail, yet more than one of you are here making unfounded claims, complaining, insulting and even accusing me of nasty things without messaging me first, or waiting for my reply.

I'm getting back to work now.  Hopefully this post has provided a bit of perspective rather than stirring up more animosity.

This sounds as the DPR whose posts I used to read on the forum.

Nice to have you back  ;)
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: punchdrunk on July 10, 2013, 12:50 am
Guys, I haven't had time to read through the whole thread, but I was just informed about Silk Road being sold to an ex-corporate CEO who multiplied the fees 10 fold.

I know this probably isn't the best place to post it and I'll probably be banned, but is it possible to launch some kind of mutiny? Could the vendors possibly band together and buy the new person out, or, if worse comes to worse, launch a hacking operation to wrench control of the site?

This is kind of a ridiculous post, buku.  Where did you get this "information" anyway?  You won't get banned, but there's no evidence to suggest that what you just posted has any basis in reality.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: BruceCampbell on July 10, 2013, 01:18 am
Like I said before it isn't a matter of money. A vendor can still receive his base price + commission and plan and adjust accordingly. What was troubling is the few days of uncertainty and no clarification. Rumors, whether substantiated or not thrive on the internet; especially in an anonymous forum full of paranoids and delinquents.

Fear, uncertainty and doubt run rampant if left unchecked.

In regards to commission algorithms, I ain't got time for that shit.

If I at anytime sounded insinuating DPR I apologize. Thanks for the opportunity to use your creation to fuel my deviant lifestyle and give me a source of income and an ego boosting sense of self-satisfaction.

 :)
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: farmer1 on July 10, 2013, 01:24 am
Holy shit this thread blew up! Get out of the life-rafts and calm down, the ship isn't sinking.


From a vendor perspective I can tell you that the SR is well worth it. I would pay much much more in fees before I stopped selling here.


SR allows vendors to hedge their escrow. I can not express how important of a feature this is - without it either escrow wouldn't be possible, or selling drugs for bitcoins wouldn't be possible. As a vendor if you set per-commission pricing then you get a guarantee that you will get paid that exact USD amount, in bitcoins, when the buyer finalizes. You really can't get screwed. No other site offers this feature and I doubt they could.


As a vendor you don't have to let DPR know every time you change your product price or do something that will effect his bottom line. On the other hand, as he stated in the Seller's Guide, he is allowed to do the same. We provide the drugs and customer support, he keeps the storefront open, provides escrow, and deals with everything we don't know how to do. Each link in the chain has its own value and each of us is allowed to price our piece of the pie as we see fit. It is up to the customers to decide whether the whole package is worth their bitcoins or not.



There really isn't anything to see here. It is interesting to note the change in fees, but not that interesting.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: nanpa2001 on July 10, 2013, 01:44 am
is this the same grateful sincere and kindly spoken DPR? some of these posts almost sound rude imo. DPR has always been a perfect gentleman/woman and willing to answer all questions or concerns. is there no new topic on here from DPR  addressing this concern about the fees, since so many are talking about it?  and im sorry, but "I apologize that it did not through.  Next time I send a message to all of the vendors, I'll double check." huh? you're dpr. fought ddos attack after another after another. youve avoided the law and any prosecution while maintaining complete annonymity and you couldnt send a message to your vendors who are a large reason for your existance? i have total respect for dpr and always have but when something doesnt sound right, it often isnt. confused...

You can continue to have total respect for DPR. The guy posting with DPR's handle obviously isn't the original DPR.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: LionwareTradingCo on July 10, 2013, 01:47 am
We never got a message about it.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: BruceCampbell on July 10, 2013, 02:23 am
Walk the fucking plank with ye.

Arrrrggghhhhh.

And then Andre the Giant was there.

Good times.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Mcrad on July 10, 2013, 02:43 am
Don't be lazy people, I just tested some listings to see what the new fees were.

Here are the results:

$5 -> 10%
$25 -> 10%
$75 -> 9.5%
$125 -> 9%
$175 -> 8.5%
$225 -> 8%
$275 -> 7.5%
$375 -> 7%
$500 -> 6.25%
$750 -> 5.30%
$1000 -> 4.75%
$1500 -> 4.25%
+$2500 -> 4%

The calculations were made by (POSTcomm - PREcomm)*0.01 = %

Koltbiz

:'(
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: farmer1 on July 10, 2013, 02:54 am
Here is a thread titled "Silkroad Fees" from July 2011: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=986.0

DPR made the following posts in that thread.

added to the seller's guide:

"...when pricing your items, be sure to include shipping and handling in the price.  Whatever you set your price at will be your total compensation.  However, your listings will display a price that is higher than the one you set because we add a commission to each listing.  The commission is subject to change, but at the time of this writing it is 6.23%."

Sorry for the opacity.  I'd like to share with you how I view money, so you can get a better idea of what to expect in regards to the management of Silk Road going forward.

Money is a tool, a means to an end.  Our end here at Silk Road is not the accumulation of money, or the comfort and security it brings (not that there's anything wrong with that).  Our end is freedom from tyranny, and secured basic human rights for the people of the world.  As awesome as it is, Silk Road is just the beginning in what will likely be a long journey.  You can count on us to use the wealth created by it responsibly to produce ever more infrastructure and resources toward achieving these goals.  In the end, it won't be about the money, it'll be about what we've all achieved by thinking and acting for ourselves and refusing to compromise.


Would this mean then that as the volume grows exponentially that there is a good chance that the fees will slide downward; both because of volume and the fact that there will be somewhat less to do in the way of major updates of the board because it will become both highly efficient and more bulletproof over time with each new iteration?  Based on your philosophy of money (the tool part is the same as my own, however I do *love* the creature comforts that come from having it) I would be very interested to hear your answer, even if it is just in a philosophical bent rather than any estimation or indication of future fee structures.  thanks!

Not necessarily.  Basically what I'm saying is, MUCH more is possible than just being able to buy drugs freely.  With the revenues from Silk Road (the more the better), we can invest in even more ambitious and revolutionary projects.  Money is a tool, but so is Silk Road.  Our aim is to one day live in a world where we won't need Silk Road, because we won't need to hide anymore.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: heisenberg2.0 on July 10, 2013, 02:57 am
There are still quite a few vendors and customers who aren't in touch with reality and haven't caught on yet- THIS IS NOT EBAY!! 
Wake up, you're selling ILLEGAL THINGS and SR is protecting you!! 

SR is not protecting you, SR is facilitating you, YOU are the one protecting YOU.
DPR is not going to pop by and say "hey you shouldn't have put your real e-mail in your profile", or "bad idea choosing the same username as your gmail"

Quote
How much is your security actually worth??  Go to 3rd tier knockoff sites with dubious reputations (yes I am referring to Atlantis where Adriane Chen of Gawker twitted "How can this not be a honeypot")  if you care about making a few more bucks at the risk of your freedom.  Do the math- how much more will retaining an attorney cost when you risk selling on some suspicious website who routinely is up to dirty tricky??
If these "sites with dubious reputations" which are currently trying to get new vendors and customers are "honeypots" then how does that not make what they are doing entrapment?????


Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: weok83r8fd on July 10, 2013, 03:15 am
holy batman.

all i can say is that i hope there is an increase in the level of competition tor-wide so these things can't just go on indefinitely.

the 1k+ listings change is fucking absurd.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Mcrad on July 10, 2013, 03:16 am
holy batman.

all i can say is that i hope there is an increase in the level of competition tor-wide so these things can't just go on indefinitely.

the 1k+ listings change is fucking absurd.

seriously, these new rates are unacceptable :'(
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: farmer1 on July 10, 2013, 04:12 am
Here is a little more commission history...



September 2011: What do you think about the new SR SELLER COMMISSION that's coming up?  http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=3415.0

"This is an automated message to all Silk Road sellers:

Some of you are just joining us as sellers, others have been here since the beginning. Wherever you came into this game, I hope you are having fun :) For those just coming in, I want to give you a little history.

Starting out, there were no commissions on sales. Sellers got 100% of what the buyer paid and there wasn't even a fee to become a seller! This might sound great for sellers, but paradoxically, I think things got much better when we started charging for accounts and adding a commission. Why? Because buyers had more reason to trust you and do business with you, and Silk Road finally had a revenue stream to invest in advanced server security and feature development.

When we started charging a commission, I just picked a number, something like 5.25%. This was added on to every sale, so that sellers got what they listed the item for and buyers only saw one price. I was hoping this would give me the flexibility to change the commission rate at will without too much fuss from the community, but I soon found that many cared very much about this number, especially when I raised it by 1% to 6.25%.

From my perspective, I would like this number to be as high as possible without causing sales to drop for you, but I have no idea where that point is. It could be 5%, 10% or even 20%, I just don't know. I'm not saying we're amazon.com, but they charge a 15% commission on every item plus a flat $1.25 and I think ebay charges something like 13% if you take into account all of their fees.

So, my proposal is to run an experiment. We've been tracking sales data very closely for months and we're showing fairly steady linear growth. What I'd like to do is double the commission rate to 12.5% for 1 month and see how sales respond to this. If our rate of growth slows, or even shrinks, then at least we'll know that it is too much and can scale it back, but if it doesn't affect sales, then we'll have doubled our revenue without any major consequence and can start investing in some of our "back-burner" projects such as internationalizing the site, developing an api, possibly starting an insurance pool, and getting normal updates and features online faster.

This change will begin in 3 days unless I hear an overwhelming number of you respond negatively against it. Thanks for your time and for making Silk Road great :)

Best regards,
Silk Road staff"





Jan 2012: State of the Road Address http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=8397.msg76738#msg76738

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

- From it's humble beginnings, the Silk Road market was quickly populated with what has become a vibrant community full of interesting characters.  From our superstar vendors and ever helpful mods to all of the active folks on the forum, the people here are truly awesome.  Silk Road would not be what it is or possibly even exist without everyone who has stepped up along the way to point out security flaws, contribute their ideas, and take this experiment on as their own and stand with us.

It didn't take long before word got out.  Our little hidden market got the attention of the media and soon the politicians and law enforcement.  But Silk Road was never meant to be private and exclusive.  It is meant to grow into a force to be reckoned with that can challenge the powers that be and at last give people the option to choose freedom over tyranny.  We fundamentally believe that people can thrive and prosper under these conditions and so far tens of thousands have done so in the Silk Road market.  A revolution has been born.  So ideally, more participants means more prosperity.  What we've found in practice is that if there is an opportunity to cheat, steal or lie for personal short-term gain, someone, somewhere will exploit it.

So, we've had two major challenges to face as Silk Road grows and evolves.  One is making our systems tough enough and flexible enough to withstand and win a cyber-war with the most powerful organizations in the world, should they choose to start that war.  This is always and ever a top priority.  The other is making the market a place where people can quickly and easily buy and sell just about anything without worrying about being attacked by gun toting men in uniforms and thrown in a cage or worry about being ripped off by their trading partner.

I am proud to say we have been successful in achieving these goals up to this point.  The site remains up and functioning (despite a few screw ups on our part, like not having a full capacity backup server ready to go when a live server went down, and a poorly executed url switch, just to name a few).  And, over 99% of all transactions conducted within the escrow system are completed to the satisfaction of both both buyer and seller, or a mutually agreed upon resolution is found.

This success has in no way made us complacent however.  New members are still being lured into trading outside of escrow by scammers and getting ripped off, and “finalizing early”, effectively cutting out the escrow process, is common practice.  Still, I believe we can mitigate these risks and take our market to the next level in security, reliability, performance, and convenience for everyone involved.

First we must deal with trading out of escrow.  Up to this point we have charged a flat 6.23% commission on all trades.  This is much too high for transactions in the $300 and over range, making trading out of escrow for large transactions much more attractive than staying within the system.  Now, instead of charging a flat commission, we will charge a higher amount for low priced items and a lower amount for high priced items, similar to how eBay does it.

We've worked hard to come up with a commission schedule that should work for everyone and will give scammers no excuse to make people send money outside of escrow.  For some perspective, eBay and amazon charge the following rates:

eBay     - $0.50 to list, 11% of the first $50, 6% of $50.01-1000, 2% of $1000.01+
amazon - $1.35 + 15% (for almost all items)

We also went to the Silk Road independent sellers to see what they thought an appropriate commission schedule would look like.  The average response looked like this:

15% of the first $10
11% of $10 - $50
8.14% of $50 - $250
5.6% of $250 - $1000
3.7% of $1000 - $5000

We looked at past sales data and our current and future revenue needs and were able to bring these numbers down even further:

10% of the first $50
8.5% of $50 - 150
6% of $150 - 300
3% of $300 - 500
2% of $500 - 1000
1.5% for everything over $1000

With this change, there are no phoney excuses whatsoever for vendors to ask for out of escrow payment.  Any request should be interpreted as a scam attempt and reported to the Silk Road support team via the “contact us” link on the main site.  We are looking at several mechanisms for enforcing the ban on OOE transactions, from self-policing to bounties on offenders.

Together, we can beat the scammers and make the Silk Road market a place where you can buy with confidence and peace of mind.  If we stay true to our principles of integrity, virtue, mutual respect and camaraderie that have guided us to this point, I believe our future is bright and this revolutionary experiment will be a success!

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CLARIFICATION:  The new policy regarding out of escrow transactions stated in this address does not affect a vendor's ability to ask their customers to finalize their orders and release payment before shipment.  We still strongly recommend that buyers avoid doing this at all costs because we will be unable to protect you in case of fraud.

CLARIFICATION:  This new policy also does not affect vendors who use the market as a platform for Bitcoin exchange.  They may continue to operate as usual, but again we strongly recommend that you purchase bitcoins through a non-anonymous vendor because the market is not set up to facilitate bitcoin exchange and your money can be stolen without recourse.

FURTHER COMMENTARY: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=8539.0

Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions.  One suggestion I especially like is the one about commission being affected by trade volume.  To those of you that are either supportive of the change, or have faith in what I am doing regardless of whether you see the point or not, thank you for your support!  I have done everything I can to earn that trust and I cherish it.

To those of you chalking my actions up to pure greed and ignoring the context for the changes, I say shame on you.  When have I lied?  When have I cheated or stolen from anyone here?  When have I treated anyone unfairly?  When have I lead you astray?  Why do you turn on me now when I have poured my heart and soul into this community and project?

10% on $50 orders?  We are talking about an extra $1.88!  A $10 order?  An extra 38 cents!  Do you think this site built itself?  Do you think it runs itself?  Do you have any clue what goes on behind the scenes to keep this going?  Do you have any idea the risk the people operating this site are taking?  Do you have any clue what we've been through to get here today?  Do you have any clue what it's going to take to get through the next year?

Whether you like it or not, I am the captain of this ship.  You are here voluntarily and if you don't like the rules of the game, or you don't trust your captain, you can get off the boat.  For those that stay, we at Silk Road will continue to do everything in our power to keep this market running smoothly and safely, and thank you again for your support!

To be honest, I am quite surprised by how negative the responses have been to the State of the Road Address and how little faith you put in me after I feel like I have done so much to deserve it.  I chose the words I wrote in the Address very carefully.  I reviewed it many times.  Every one of them is true, and my sentiment is valid.  Go through and re-read it along with the clarifications.  Every one of your concerns is addressed if you would only do me the courtesy of believing me.  This change IS about scam prevention.  We ARE working on solutions to the finalizing early and bitcoin exchange scams.  We DID do everything we could to keep the rates low while still addressing the present and future needs of the organization.  Everyone WILL be treated fairly under the new rules just as you have been all along.

We also need to be WAY more flexible on this kind of stuff.  It would be amazing if we could try out lots of different commission rates, some way too high, some way too low, to try to find out what works for everyone, but the minute we even mention changing rates everyone becomes an expert on the subject and puts up resistance to change.  There is lots about this organization that just isn't going to be made public and you have to TRUST us that we are doing our absolute best and will always work toward our stated goals, which include giving people the opportunity to choose freedom over tyranny, and to trade in just about any good or service they wish, securely and privately.  Our goals DO NOT include profiting personally at anyone else's expense, or the expense of our stated goals.  If I am greedy, I am greedy for freedom.  I am greedy for power.  Not force over others, but for a world where POWER resides in me and each and every individual, where it belongs.  If we can get to that world, I can die happy.

Silk Road is an ENTERPRISE that is just getting started.  It could literally change the world as we know it.  It is bigger than any one of us, and it is going to take the dedication and will of MANY talented people, a lot of luck, and RESOURCES to get from here to there.  Do you want to see this thing go all the way and take the absolute piss out of the power mongers of this world?  Do you want to give it every chance it needs to succeed?  Why aren't you telling me to raise the commission even further then?  I don't hear anyone refusing the commission break on high priced goods.  I don't hear anyone saying “don't do that, you need it, you keep this whole thing going, we're happy to do our part.”

As a community, if we are going to survive, we need to adopt a LONG TERM vision.  Getting the most out of this thing before it gets taken down is NOT going to bring us success.  In that world, Silk Road will be a  shooting star that burns out quickly and dies as little more than a dream, swallowed by the nightmare reality of an ever-expanding, all-powerful global oligarchy.  Planning ahead and doing everything we can NOW to prepare for the war to come is the only way we are going to have a shot at this.  We are still mostly ignored by our true enemies, but this incubation WILL NOT last forever.

I don't like writing this kind of stuff publicly because it taunts our enemies and might spur them into action, but I risk it because the context for what we are doing is too often lost in the day to day stuff that happens here and it needs to be put in from time to time.  Silk Road NEEDS our support.  It needs everything we have.  The return on what we put into it will be immeasurable if we can get through the months and years ahead and gain a real foothold on the global stage.  HELP ME GET US THERE!!!  Do it for me, do it for yourself, do it for your families and friends, and do it for mankind.

P.S.
Here's another thing that doesn't get said enough:  I love you.  This is the most fun I've ever had and I feel closer to the people I have met here than the vast majority of people I have to hide all of this from in real life.  Stay light, have fun, and please please please take this on as more than a way to score drugs.  Stand by me as we stand up for ourselves.

- Silk Road admin
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: SouthSquareBiz on July 10, 2013, 04:41 am
Part of the confusion was that people were trying to derive what the commission is by fiddling with listings. If the fees were more transparent then people might not have gotten the wrong idea.

Someone posted early in the thread with numbers that made the change sound very large, given that there is no way to actually look at what fees we are being charged it was believed. Now someone else is presenting other numbers, I don't know who is right. I am still having trouble knowing what the actual change was.

I apologize if I overreacted, but it is very hard to know how to react when I cannot easily see what has changed.

Please make a page that makes the current fees clear, a page that changes when the fees change. This alone could have avoided much of the uncertainty and confusion today.

I can tell you that the fee for my $2,500 USD listing is $100.80 USD and that the fee used to be just under $50 USD.

Yeah, the difference in the last sentence you wrote would make me significantly unhappy, if it happens more than once, if it were me.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on July 10, 2013, 04:47 am
holy batman.

all i can say is that i hope there is an increase in the level of competition tor-wide so these things can't just go on indefinitely.

the 1k+ listings change is fucking absurd.

seriously, these new rates are unacceptable :'(

But when you look at in perspective, it's really no biggie.

EXAMPLE:

For a $2000 order, under the old schedule, the fee was $53.5 ($38.5 for amount under $1000 + $15 [1.5% of amount over $1000]) or net 2.68% of the order's value.

For a $2000 order, under the new schedule, the fee is $78.6 (according to test listing I did). Or net 3.93% of order's value. Just under a 50% increase in commission charged.

But the real dollar difference is only an increase in $25 going to DPR & co. Can't say they don't deserve it because they do.

So from the buyer's perspective:

For a $2000 order... buyer paid $2000 before the change and if the vendor doesn't eat any part of the increase, the buyer will now pay $2025.
That's a $25 increase or 1.25% price increase.

If a $25 increase in price on a $2000 order makes or breaks... I don't know what to tell ya.

For orders under $500, the fees are virtually unchanged to slightly better than before. But we're talking about less than $1 either way.
For orders between $500 and $1000, the increase in fees is between about $1 to $8 respectively.

So for the majority of orders on SR (which are under $1000), there's no meaningful difference to either the vendor or the buyer. Margins aren't being squeezed. And if a few bucks is make or break for a vendor, then BTC fluctuations, cash out/wash fees and other ancillary costs would have TKO'd the vendor long before a few bucks difference would.

It's the bulk orders that see the most percent increase in fee but in dollar terms, the increase on fees on bulk orders is low as you can see from my $2000 bulk order example. It was just a $25 increase in fees over the old fee.


EDIT: Just saw Jack N Hoff's quoted post above. How did you come up with that number? The old fee on a $2500 listing is $38.5 + 1.5% amt over $1k.

For a $2500 listing, that works out to $38.5 + ($1500 * .015 = $22.5) = $61 commission under the old schedule. Which amounted to 2.4% of the order's value.
Under the new schedule, it's probably the number you came up with (Didn't test it myself) which you say is $100.80. So that's a $39.80 increase.
On a $2500 order that amounts to 4.03% commission. A 70% increase in commission. But only a ~$40 increase.

Granted, the commissions being charged are significantly higher than what Atlantis charges. But Atlantis doesn't have the customer base or the trust that SR has.

Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Isobetadine on July 10, 2013, 05:02 am
holy batman.

all i can say is that i hope there is an increase in the level of competition tor-wide so these things can't just go on indefinitely.

the 1k+ listings change is fucking absurd.

seriously, these new rates are unacceptable :'(

But when you look at in perspective, it's really no biggie.

EXAMPLE:

For a $2000 order, under the old schedule, the fee was $53.5 ($38.5 for amount under $1000 + $15 [1.5% of amount over $1000]) or net 2.68% of the order's value.

For a $2000 order, under the new schedule, the fee is $78.6 (according to test listing I did). Or net 3.93% of order's value. Just under a 50% increase in commission charged.

But the real dollar difference is only an increase in $25 going to DPR & co. Can't say they don't deserve it because they do.

So from the buyer's perspective:

For a $2000 order... buyer paid $2000 before the change and if the vendor doesn't eat any part of the increase, the buyer will now pay $2025.
That's a $25 increase or 1.25% price increase.

If a $25 increase in price on a $2000 order makes or breaks... I don't know what to tell ya.

For orders under $500, the fees are virtually unchanged to slightly better than before. But we're talking about less than $1 either way.
For orders between $500 and $1000, the increase in fees is between about $1 to $8 respectively.

So for the majority of orders on SR (which are under $1000), there's no meaningful difference to either the vendor or the buyer. Margins aren't being squeezed. And if a few bucks is make or break for a vendor, then BTC fluctuations, cash out/wash fees and other ancillary costs would have TKO'd the vendor long before a few bucks difference would.

It's the bulk orders that see the most percent increase in fee but in dollar terms, the increase on fees on bulk orders is low as you can see from my $2000 bulk order example. It was just a $25 increase in fees over the old fee.


AMEN

Would +1 if possible.

Some of the reactions are short of being hysteric.
Perspective is everything.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Real_Drugs on July 10, 2013, 05:46 am
A few noob questions:
When you buy a vendor account, do you only have to pay the bond? (which you get back) or is there something you have to pay which you won't get back?
And when you hedge something, who pays the extra bitcoins if the price changes in the time of the transaction? Does SR or the customer pay?
Thanks
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: heisenberg2.0 on July 10, 2013, 08:54 am
A few noob questions:
When you buy a vendor account, do you only have to pay the bond? (which you get back) or is there something you have to pay which you won't get back?
And when you hedge something, who pays the extra bitcoins if the price changes in the time of the transaction? Does SR or the customer pay?
Thanks

When you become a seller you only pay the bond.

When you hedge SR covers the cost. The idea in theory means they should* sell the coins immediately at the current market price so you don't gain or lose $$ value because of fluctuations in bitcoin prices and since they just sold your bit-coins at the $$ value of your order so they then have the money to give you after the customer finalizes.

Of course what could now be happening is that SR (just like our banks) decides to speculate a bit and hold your coins a day longer for example selling when they feel the price is right and they can make a bit more profit.
In the recent market where BTC prices have only dropped that could leave them in the negative very fast as the margins they works with are quite small ( 4% - 10%, same as commission rates) so if things were to go wrong they could be in negative territory quite fast and that MAY be what we are seeing now.
It could be that SR is in a fractional reserve situation right now where they don't hold enough BTC to cover all pending orders that have yet to be finalized and need to raise fees to get back in the black butl ets hope that's not true as it would be VERY bad for sellers/buyers and SR itself.

EDIT*
During the crazy bitcoin price turmoil a few months back I wrote from my old account in the bug reports section  saying that the hedging feature is open to huge abuse in time of high fluctuation in BTC prices.
In a roundabout way I posted that potentially it could be used in an extreme example by BTC speculators to in fact hedge their own losses!

Say for example price of BTC just drops just 10% in a few hours which has happened quite often. Since SR hedging is/was tied to the 24hour floating average price on MtGox I can still trade my BTC for weed on SR where my BTC is still worth 7 - 8% above the current MtGox price. Drugs are currency too and if people notice they can make an arbitrage by buying BTC on MtGox for $60 and it's worth $66 on SR then there are people who flaunt that opportunity every time it arises. 
IMO, The hedging system was designed for a sub $30 bitcoin and the rise in price this year has exposed some of it's weaknesses.
As a seller here it also worries me a bit that there is the potential for SR to play speculator with everyone's bitcoins.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: heisenberg2.0 on July 10, 2013, 10:18 am
After trying to find how hedging currently works it seems even newbies have been taking advantage of differences between the MT.Gox value and SR value.
This worries me a little  :-\

Quote
I just had a hard time believing that essentially I could trick the system when a big drop in bitcoin price occurs very fast but now I know I'll be thinking about how to time my orders a bit better if the market stays as volatile as it has been recently.

Also if the hedged price is based on the MT.Gox floating average how will it work now that they have suspended trading. Bitcoins are currently trading well below what the last price was on Mt.Gox and they have suspended trading until 2013-04-12 02:00am UTC
I can buy bitcoins on bitstamp for $79.01 while the MtGox Weighted Avg is : $162.22284 and wont change for some time o_O

From: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=146133.msg1002748#msg1002748

I just posted in bug reports to see if this is a real flaw
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Captainobvius on July 10, 2013, 10:53 am

Ritz Carlton dreams and Motel 6 budgets. If you vendors cant afford to sell on Silk Road take your business somewhere else.  Don't cry like a little bitch.

Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: cyanspore on July 10, 2013, 01:20 pm
well, my vending has been even less than motel 6 budget for many years. Granted I'm not a normal vendor. - I hunt mushrooms and it's the only thing I'm good at

Silk Road basically saved my ass from indentured servitude and starvation wages. I just hunt mushrooms and for many years I had to go through middle men to sell it, and I got 1-3 dollars a gram, while they sold it for 15/gram. They made all the money, I did all the work because they knew all the customers

Silk Road changed all that and now I make the 15/gram myself, only because Silk Road now gives me access to customers like I never could get in real life. I'm not going to get rich, but It's much better than before. Before I was so broke I couldn't even afford to go hunting. Now I have enough

I was so broke I couldn't afford the 500 dollar bond to get on Silk Road for months and started with BMR and still couldn't make enough since it's much smaller there. One vendor here actually loand me 5BTC and I had 2BTC makes 7BTC at the time 5 months ago, right around the time BTC was nearly the same price as it is now, 70 dollars 7x70-49, or 500 bond

so O got on Silk road and started vending at 10/gram and was immediately swamped with orders. i was able to pay back the 5BTC within a couple weeks. 5 months later, I got the bond back, and now I'm the #2 shroom vendor on SR


I was forced 23 months ago to raise my price from 10 dollars to 13, because I was getting too many orders and people told me it was too cheap, and it still wasn't enough. I had to go into stealth mode mostly


As for the current situation, the last time I set the price was at 13/gram, back when BTC was about 110. so it was around .13BTC/gram

Now the price is .21/gram BTC and this is because of the BTC price drop, but also I see that the price in dollars is now 16.45/gram with commission. Despite that price increase and BTC drop, I am still getting more orders than I can handle if I stay public, so i still have to go in stealth mode sometimes

Maybe my situation is unique, but i'm not complaining. I'm still getting at least 13/gram dollar which is 5 times what I was getting in real life before, because what Silk Road did for me is eliminate the greedy middle men

I just wanted DPR and other vendors to know that. It's all perspective and from my perspective, I'm making my own money now, with my own hands, from my own hunting, and the commission charged here is nowhere near what the middle men gouged from me before - in order to stay safe and anonymous

Most of my customers are happy. I have near 100% ratings, and most people have never tried psilocybe cyanecsens before. before in real life, it rarely went beyond the local area, and now people all over the world get to see what it's like for the first time, so it's partly educating people on the scientific name - psilocybe cyanescens

The more people are educated on that the better, because it's guaranteed business for whoever can go out there and find it

I had no idea there was that demand for this best quality until I got to Silk road 5 months ago

I for one, am very thankful.

Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: HeatFireFlame on July 10, 2013, 06:39 pm
well, my vending has been even less than motel 6 budget for many years. Granted I'm not a normal vendor. - I hunt mushrooms and it's the only thing I'm good at

Silk Road basically saved my ass from indentured servitude and starvation wages. I just hunt mushrooms and for many years I had to go through middle men to sell it, and I got 1-3 dollars a gram, while they sold it for 15/gram. They made all the money, I did all the work because they knew all the customers

Silk Road changed all that and now I make the 15/gram myself, only because Silk Road now gives me access to customers like I never could get in real life. I'm not going to get rich, but It's much better than before. Before I was so broke I couldn't even afford to go hunting. Now I have enough

I was so broke I couldn't afford the 500 dollar bond to get on Silk Road for months and started with BMR and still couldn't make enough since it's much smaller there. One vendor here actually loand me 5BTC and I had 2BTC makes 7BTC at the time 5 months ago, right around the time BTC was nearly the same price as it is now, 70 dollars 7x70-49, or 500 bond

so O got on Silk road and started vending at 10/gram and was immediately swamped with orders. i was able to pay back the 5BTC within a couple weeks. 5 months later, I got the bond back, and now I'm the #2 shroom vendor on SR


I was forced 23 months ago to raise my price from 10 dollars to 13, because I was getting too many orders and people told me it was too cheap, and it still wasn't enough. I had to go into stealth mode mostly


As for the current situation, the last time I set the price was at 13/gram, back when BTC was about 110. so it was around .13BTC/gram

Now the price is .21/gram BTC and this is because of the BTC price drop, but also I see that the price in dollars is now 16.45/gram with commission. Despite that price increase and BTC drop, I am still getting more orders than I can handle if I stay public, so i still have to go in stealth mode sometimes

Maybe my situation is unique, but i'm not complaining. I'm still getting at least 13/gram dollar which is 5 times what I was getting in real life before, because what Silk Road did for me is eliminate the greedy middle men

I just wanted DPR and other vendors to know that. It's all perspective and from my perspective, I'm making my own money now, with my own hands, from my own hunting, and the commission charged here is nowhere near what the middle men gouged from me before - in order to stay safe and anonymous

Most of my customers are happy. I have near 100% ratings, and most people have never tried psilocybe cyanecsens before. before in real life, it rarely went beyond the local area, and now people all over the world get to see what it's like for the first time, so it's partly educating people on the scientific name - psilocybe cyanescens

The more people are educated on that the better, because it's guaranteed business for whoever can go out there and find it

I had no idea there was that demand for this best quality until I got to Silk road 5 months ago

I for one, am very thankful.

+1 I really enjoyed reading that. its people like you, specialists i your respective fields, That are not greedy for extra profits, That are the best sellers the road has to offer .
Im looking to start cultivating shrooms outdoors, i have a nice secret location where animals and humans wont bother with them, and have already seen some shroom bags and syringes on the road, but now after reading this i feel i would be arrogant to not ask your advice? do you sell any kind of these products? and if so or not could you spare me any advice? Feel free to PM me and just ask for my PGP if you wish.
HeatFireFlame.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: HelpMeHelpYou on July 10, 2013, 09:49 pm
Wow. Can you say getting greedy?
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: cyanspore on July 10, 2013, 10:41 pm
@heatfireFlame - I'll have spore prints when the season starts, cause it's been requested before. But p cyanescens isn't something you can grow indoors. You have to cultivate them out doors in wood chip beds and only in areas where it gets cold enough in fautum, like 48F and below at night

and it can take 2 years to develop a patch in a wood chip bed outside, not 1 month like cubensis

That's the reason why people grow cubensis. If it was easier to grow cyanescens you would have seen cyanescens vendors long ago, because they're stronger than cubensis, but it's  much harder and takes longer to grow

Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: HeatFireFlame on July 10, 2013, 11:44 pm
@heatfireFlame - I'll have spore prints when the season starts, cause it's been requested before. But p cyanescens isn't something you can grow indoors. You have to cultivate them out doors in wood chip beds and only in areas where it gets cold enough in fautum, like 48F and below at night

and it can take 2 years to develop a patch in a wood chip bed outside, not 1 month like cubensis

That's the reason why people grow cubensis. If it was easier to grow cyanescens you would have seen cyanescens vendors long ago, because they're stronger than cubensis, but it's  much harder and takes longer to grow

Defo let me know about them mate . I like the odd long term proect. I was actually just asking about cultivatng outdoors, and was told it was easier indoors which it is, but its just not the same.
yeah i actually live in the northern hemisphere, no problems at all with the temp.
please Pm me around the time.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: upthera on July 10, 2013, 11:59 pm
the pot holes in the road appear to be showing and growing.  Time to migrate people?  Come back when SR gets its shit together?  If SR gets its shit together because it really seems like they don't want to or don't care. 
bummer, I like it here and will come to the forums if I find a new place to purchase that actually does something more than 24 hour bans for its star vendors...  FM ST UGS 

Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Quazee on July 11, 2013, 12:05 am
the pot holes in the road appear to be showing and growing.  Time to migrate people?  Come back when SR gets its shit together?  If SR gets its shit together because it really seems like they don't want to or don't care. 
bummer, I like it here and will come to the forums if I find a new place to purchase that actually does something more than 24 hour bans for its star vendors...  FM ST UGS

idk who FM is but if ST is refering to supertrips. He is a dumbass vendor risking others security. Same with UGS if that is undergroundsyndicate. There way of shipping is sloppppy. dangerous for him and buyers. I expect a bust soon for him as well.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: druff1138 on July 11, 2013, 12:07 am
well, my vending has been even less than motel 6 budget for many years. Granted I'm not a normal vendor. - I hunt mushrooms and it's the only thing I'm good at

Silk Road basically saved my ass from indentured servitude and starvation wages. I just hunt mushrooms and for many years I had to go through middle men to sell it, and I got 1-3 dollars a gram, while they sold it for 15/gram. They made all the money, I did all the work because they knew all the customers

Silk Road changed all that and now I make the 15/gram myself, only because Silk Road now gives me access to customers like I never could get in real life. I'm not going to get rich, but It's much better than before. Before I was so broke I couldn't even afford to go hunting. Now I have enough

I was so broke I couldn't afford the 500 dollar bond to get on Silk Road for months and started with BMR and still couldn't make enough since it's much smaller there. One vendor here actually loand me 5BTC and I had 2BTC makes 7BTC at the time 5 months ago, right around the time BTC was nearly the same price as it is now, 70 dollars 7x70-49, or 500 bond

so O got on Silk road and started vending at 10/gram and was immediately swamped with orders. i was able to pay back the 5BTC within a couple weeks. 5 months later, I got the bond back, and now I'm the #2 shroom vendor on SR


I was forced 23 months ago to raise my price from 10 dollars to 13, because I was getting too many orders and people told me it was too cheap, and it still wasn't enough. I had to go into stealth mode mostly


As for the current situation, the last time I set the price was at 13/gram, back when BTC was about 110. so it was around .13BTC/gram

Now the price is .21/gram BTC and this is because of the BTC price drop, but also I see that the price in dollars is now 16.45/gram with commission. Despite that price increase and BTC drop, I am still getting more orders than I can handle if I stay public, so i still have to go in stealth mode sometimes

Maybe my situation is unique, but i'm not complaining. I'm still getting at least 13/gram dollar which is 5 times what I was getting in real life before, because what Silk Road did for me is eliminate the greedy middle men

I just wanted DPR and other vendors to know that. It's all perspective and from my perspective, I'm making my own money now, with my own hands, from my own hunting, and the commission charged here is nowhere near what the middle men gouged from me before - in order to stay safe and anonymous

Most of my customers are happy. I have near 100% ratings, and most people have never tried psilocybe cyanecsens before. before in real life, it rarely went beyond the local area, and now people all over the world get to see what it's like for the first time, so it's partly educating people on the scientific name - psilocybe cyanescens

The more people are educated on that the better, because it's guaranteed business for whoever can go out there and find it

I had no idea there was that demand for this best quality until I got to Silk road 5 months ago

I for one, am very thankful.

Should be #1 shroom vendor. Thanks for some mature input cyan.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: upthera on July 11, 2013, 12:21 am
the pot holes in the road appear to be showing and growing.  Time to migrate people?  Come back when SR gets its shit together?  If SR gets its shit together because it really seems like they don't want to or don't care. 
bummer, I like it here and will come to the forums if I find a new place to purchase that actually does something more than 24 hour bans for its star vendors...  FM ST UGS

idk who FM is but if ST is refering to supertrips. He is a dumbass vendor risking others security. Same with UGS if that is undergroundsyndicate. There way of shipping is sloppppy. dangerous for him and buyers. I expect a bust soon for him as well.
  hate to say it but I almost hope but I would bet he has saved every bit of info to hand over and use to his advantage if , I mean when he gets busted.  My guess.  I mentioned FM only because of the punishmentn of a 24hr ban. He is a well kown H vendor.  I think most people on the road despise ST and UGS  complete scum and their products absolutely suck if you recieve them. UGS overpriced hash is the worst on the road, hands down. But, it is the arrogance and rudeness and complete "i could give a fuck about my dumb customers" attitude that bothers me most. Well other than DRP and CO putting up with them.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: kingpinirl on July 11, 2013, 12:34 am
I haven't dealt with UGS in a while, but I always liked his customer service and product.  I did get an order that wasn't vacuum sealed, and I bitched about it, but at the end of the day it got here.  I even asked him for a 1/2g of ex and he said not to worry about it and sent a full gram.

His business ethics/practices may have changed, but when I used him, I really liked the experience.

Sorry to go off topic :)
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: upthera on July 11, 2013, 12:46 am
I haven't dealt with UGS in a while, but I always liked his customer service and product.  I did get an order that wasn't vacuum sealed, and I bitched about it, but at the end of the day it got here.  I even asked him for a 1/2g of ex and he said not to worry about it and sent a full gram.

His business ethics/practices may have changed, but when I used him, I really liked the experience.

Sorry to go off topic :)
If you are off topic I must have really hijacked this thread.  I also have had a fine extremely fast order from them but the quality was horrible and up to 6-8 times the price of another vendors similar product that is the real deal. now that all is a risk we take, it the attitude people like SuperTrips and UGS have.  Arrogance like I've never seen I think ST is worse but don't know.  I do feel the real blame for vendors like these are people leaving positive feedback for shit because of the threats of those two, ond other vendors, but most of all the SR big men who shold have booted their white trash ass from here long ago.  Done ranting about those two becase everyone who has spent time here know they are a joke and live off noobs whoo get wise quick, mostly.  Cheers 
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: upthera on July 11, 2013, 12:53 am
used UGS many times. no longer, since he does indeed have a very nasty attitude. used to buy 1/4 of his mids many times and everytime it was short. when i finally said something to him about it, i received a real ugly response that motivated me to never use him again. with the variety of quality vendors on SR, i have no need for his attitude nor his light products.

+1 for you sir.  Too many are afraid or won't just vote with their coin like you.  Need more like you.

Good night all
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: kingpinirl on July 11, 2013, 12:59 am
Yeah - I probably shouldn't have opened my mouth - it's probably been a year since I used him - had the molly itch and scratched it w/ him a few times.  My opinion isn't relative since its been so long. 
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: JahBUDS on August 10, 2013, 10:48 pm
We didn't see anything.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: brodie on August 11, 2013, 12:09 am
Wow...... all I can say is wow
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: HeatFireFlame on August 11, 2013, 05:22 pm
so exactly what are the current fees? I have seen lots of educated guesses but no definitive answer from a mod or admin. can one of you please confirm?
thank you
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Libertas on August 11, 2013, 09:23 pm
so exactly what are the current fees? I have seen lots of educated guesses but no definitive answer from a mod or admin. can one of you please confirm?
thank you

Please see DPR's main thread on the current commission rate from July 10th:

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=182525.0

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi everyone,

There has been quite a bit of discussion about the commission that is charged to vendors on Silk Road and I'd like to do my best to put some misunderstandings to rest.  Many things were changed in a recent update to accommodate displaying and pegging prices to many currencies.  One of those changes was the way the commission is calculated.  This change had virtually no effect on the vast majority of sales on Silk Road that occur in the less than $1000 range.  The commission did rise on larger volume orders.  I've always felt that the 2% or so that was being charged on high priced orders was kind of low and decided to make the minimum commission 4%.  I intended to inform our vendors of this through a message, but for some reason the message did not go through.  I don't know if this was human error, or a technical error of some kind, but despite what some of you might think I am a normal human being and capable of error.  In any case, the warning of the commission change did not make it to the vendors, so when they realized the commission had been raised by about two percentage points on high priced orders without warning, they we're rightfully upset.

However, this soon spiraled out of control with people making unfounded claims that the commission had doubled or tripled across the board, causing further outrage.  I attempted to respond within the thread where this was being discussed, but multiple threads have been started now and the misconception has even spread to other websites.  Hopefully this post will put the matter to rest.

As I've said all along, the commission that is charged is subject to change at any time, but because it is such a hot topic I am more than happy to reveal the commission schedule as it stands at this very moment.  Keep in mind, this is subject to change at any time, and vendors have been equipped to handle changes in the commission without being warned ahead of time.

The percent commission charged at this point can be found with the following formula:

6.7 x e^(-p/6) + 4

where p is the price of the listing in Bitcoins.  So, for example, a 10 btc listing has a total commission of 5.27%, or 0.5265 btc.

To give a little more perspective, at the current exchange rate of $75 per btc, a $1000 item under the former schedule now costs $1007.26.  A $2000 item now costs $2028.07.  And as said before, lower priced items are virtually unchanged.  I think we can all agree that the service being provided by Silk Road to bring together a multitude of buyers and sellers and provide a safe platform for multi-thousand dollar deals is more than worth an extra 28 bucks.

That being said, I take full responsibility for any and all misunderstandings up to this point.  I didn't deliver the forewarning as I had intended and I am sure none of this would have been necessary had my message been delivered.  I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time with all of this and I hope you can forgive me this slip up.

Yours always,
Dread Pirate Roberts

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Libertas
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: HollyMolly2012 on August 11, 2013, 10:17 pm
so exactly what are the current fees? I have seen lots of educated guesses but no definitive answer from a mod or admin. can one of you please confirm?
thank you

I don't know why people make concern about this FEE issue.. please man!
What DPR are want to charge is up to HIM, he created this wonderful system
so the man can ask how much he want. And up to you if you want to stay in this beautiful community.

As fact i must say this It's better for all you people here on the forum to make
a discussion about the RATE what SR is pulling from (GOX)

Maybe for as buyer you don't feel it. because you can choose to buy your  BTC. But we have not to choose
We loosing money on this rating.. come one and get rit of the GOX and take STAMP!! 8)

Thank you..

HM bulkspecialist.
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ananas_xpress on August 11, 2013, 10:25 pm
Quote
The percent commission charged at this point can be found with the following formula:

6.7 x e^(-p/6) + 4

where p is the price of the listing in Bitcoins.  So, for example, a 10 btc listing has a total commission of 5.27%, or 0.5265 btc.

Could somebody help me out with the calculation of this, I'm not bad in math but..... "e" is the mathematical constant, then you have PEMDAS,

Parentheses first
Exponents (ie Powers and Square Roots, etc.)
Multiplication and Division (left-to-right)
Addition and subtraction

I though I could give up this sort of math when I decided to open an account here. ;D
Or tell me where I'm going wrong with a 0.05BTC listing and I don't know what ^ operator means

6.7 x e^(-p/6) + 4

where e=2.71828182845904523536028747135266249
So it's 6.7 x 2.71828182845904523536028747135266249^(0.05/6) + 4
6.7 x 2.71828182845904523536028747135266249^(0.0083333333333333333333333333333333) + 4
18.212488250675603076913926058058^(0.0083333333333333333333333333333333) + 4

So then you multiply 18.212 x number in brackets and add 4..Tried that and it was wrong.
THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS!


EDIT# If SR staff could give us a macro or a step by step example for idiots like me who cant do math anymore it would be a big help.
Vendors need to know what fees they are paying to price their products effectively and right now I cant work it out :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Libertas on August 11, 2013, 10:45 pm
Quote
The percent commission charged at this point can be found with the following formula:

6.7 x e^(-p/6) + 4

where p is the price of the listing in Bitcoins.  So, for example, a 10 btc listing has a total commission of 5.27%, or 0.5265 btc.

Could somebody help me out with the calculation of this, I'm not bad in math but..... "e" is the mathematical constant, then you have PEMDAS,

Parentheses first
Exponents (ie Powers and Square Roots, etc.)
Multiplication and Division (left-to-right)
Addition and subtraction

I though I could give up this sort of math when I decided to open an account here. ;D
Or tell me where I'm going wrong with a 0.05BTC listing and I don't know what ^ operator means

6.7 x e^(-p/6) + 4

where e=2.71828182845904523536028747135266249
So it's 6.7 x 2.71828182845904523536028747135266249^(0.05/6) + 4
6.7 x 2.71828182845904523536028747135266249^(0.0083333333333333333333333333333333) + 4
18.212488250675603076913926058058^(0.0083333333333333333333333333333333) + 4

So then you multiply 18.212 x number in brackets and add 4..Tried that and it was wrong.
THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS!

My best advice would be to pick up a cheap scientific calculator that has the e^ function; really handy for calculating commission.

6.7 x e^(0.05/6)+4 = 10.76%, or ฿0.0054 in commission on a ฿0.05 sale

The % commission figure has been rounded to 2 digits, and the ฿ commission figure has been rounded to 4 digits.

Libertas
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: Cork1Screw on August 12, 2013, 07:30 am
Quote
The percent commission charged at this point can be found with the following formula:

6.7 x e^(-p/6) + 4

where p is the price of the listing in Bitcoins.  So, for example, a 10 btc listing has a total commission of 5.27%, or 0.5265 btc.

Could somebody help me out with the calculation of this, I'm not bad in math but..... "e" is the mathematical constant, then you have PEMDAS,

Parentheses first
Exponents (ie Powers and Square Roots, etc.)
Multiplication and Division (left-to-right)
Addition and subtraction

I though I could give up this sort of math when I decided to open an account here. ;D
Or tell me where I'm going wrong with a 0.05BTC listing and I don't know what ^ operator means

6.7 x e^(-p/6) + 4

where e=2.71828182845904523536028747135266249
So it's 6.7 x 2.71828182845904523536028747135266249^(0.05/6) + 4
6.7 x 2.71828182845904523536028747135266249^(0.0083333333333333333333333333333333) + 4
18.212488250675603076913926058058^(0.0083333333333333333333333333333333) + 4

So then you multiply 18.212 x number in brackets and add 4..Tried that and it was wrong.
THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS!

My best advice would be to pick up a cheap scientific calculator that has the e^ function; really handy for calculating commission.

6.7 x e^(0.05/6)+4 = 10.76%, or ฿0.0054 in commission on a ฿0.05 sale

The % commission figure has been rounded to 2 digits, and the ฿ commission figure has been rounded to 4 digits.

Libertas

You can use computational websites like wolframalpha dot com to do the calculation.

It wont work with an "x" for multiply though, write it like this:

(6.7) e^(-p/6) + 4
Title: Re: Silk Road fees have increased after the currency update. So what are they now???
Post by: ananas_xpress on August 12, 2013, 10:04 am


You can use computational websites like wolframalpha dot com to do the calculation.

It wont work with an "x" for multiply though, write it like this:

(6.7) e^(-p/6) + 4

Thanks and +1 cork1screw
Tried that for  the libertas example and it returns the same result   

(6.7) e^(0.05/6) + 4 =  "10.7561%"

Then I changed the BTC value and got the following on wolframalpha 

0.1BTC listing (6.7) e^(0.1/6) + 4 =  10.8126%
0.5BTC listing (6.7) e^(0.5/6) + 4 =  11.2823%
1BTC listing (6.7) e^(0.5/6) + 4 =  11.9151%

I would say I'm clearly doing something stupid only for I got the same result as Libertas for the same calculation but it cant be that %commission increases as price rises??