Silk Road forums
Market => Product offers => Topic started by: fable on May 28, 2013, 03:34 am
-
Heya everyone... it's been a long time since I've been around lol. We haven't been in the online drug trade for a minute now, and unfortunately we aren't planning on returning. But I recently invested in a few bitcoin miners and am having cold feet about them since it is taking Butterfly Labs so long to finally start getting their shit together. I'm definitely keeping one because I know they're going to be profitable, just not how much, for how long, or when I am going to receive them. Decided to go ahead and put them on here since I already had this seller's account and figured some of you might be interested. I wasn't sure where to list them, so I went ahead and placed them in Electronics.
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/583d3dd689
-
One more thing. We don't have a PGP key up right now so if you don't use PGP you can go ahead and place your order without one (though I recommend that you do... c'mon, why take the risk?). I don't plan on there being a huge rush for am item like this, but don't worry if you need a PGP key to place your order. If you confirm that you are going to place the order whenever I get a key up, I'll go ahead and take the listing down for you.
-
Whilst I can not comment on this vendor's authenticity, I must point out that every ASIC / Bitcoin miner advertised on Silk Road has been a scam. I would strongly advise potential buyers not to purchase this listing, and if it is legitimate, would strongly advise the vendor to advertise it elsewhere due to the fact that LE can link it back to their real identity with a simple check with Butterfly Labs as to the original details supplied for delivery.
Libertas
-
Actually, disregard that last message. After thinking about it a bit, just place the order without an address, and I'll ask for your address once I get the machine. Even though I'm not handling any illegal business here, I'd feel more comfortable not keeping your address saved for months.
-
Actually, disregard that last message. After thinking about it a bit, just place the order without an address, and I'll ask for your address once I get the machine. Even though I'm not handling any illegal business here, I'd feel more comfortable not keeping your address saved for months.
This makes it sound even stranger. Again, I would advise all parties to engage in transactions concerning Bitcoin miners elsewhere, for both their safety.
Libertas
-
Libertas, that's actually a very good point. Didn't even think about that... not participating in any illegal activities now, but I don't like the idea of that anyway. Going to look into that before I make any shipments and will give a refund if I feel there is a risk to my well being.
As for my credibility, I don't know if any of my loyal larger buyers are still active on SR anymore or not. If so, maybe one of them will see this and provide some insight. (Not that it really matters being away for so long, but eh... ::))
Some of my friends are considering buying one off of me, but they have some reserves about ASICs being too good to be true. I'm going to leave the listings up in the meantime until I find other buyers or BFL decides to ship mine.
-
Actually, disregard that last message. After thinking about it a bit, just place the order without an address, and I'll ask for your address once I get the machine. Even though I'm not handling any illegal business here, I'd feel more comfortable not keeping your address saved for months.
This makes it sound even stranger. Again, I would advise all parties to engage in transactions concerning Bitcoin miners elsewhere, for both their safety.
Libertas
Why does that sound strange to you? Just want to see your reasoning. Mine is pretty solid as a Software Engineer and former SR vendor who takes a special interest in security.
-
To all concerned, I actually agree with Libertas. There is no reliable way for me to verify my legitimacy beyond that of those who dealt with me for about 6 months approximately a year ago (who may or may not see this and may or may not speak up).
I am a pretty stand-up guy. However, in all honesty, I wouldn't place an order for a BTC miner through SR (obviously, since I placed an order through the BFL site) unless it was from a current top seller I deal with or an active highly reputable forum member with a good year of work to lose, and you probably shouldn't either.
That being said, I am leaving the listings up for any interested parties until I sell them another way or decide to keep them myself.
-
Actually, disregard that last message. After thinking about it a bit, just place the order without an address, and I'll ask for your address once I get the machine. Even though I'm not handling any illegal business here, I'd feel more comfortable not keeping your address saved for months.
This makes it sound even stranger. Again, I would advise all parties to engage in transactions concerning Bitcoin miners elsewhere, for both their safety.
Libertas
Why does that sound strange to you? Just want to see your reasoning. Mine is pretty solid as a Software Engineer and former SR vendor who takes a special interest in security.
It is strange as you are essentially asking someone to pay you $2,764.00 without even getting an address off them for delivery of the item you are planning to sell. Perhaps Silk Road will be gone by the time you actually receive the item in question. Perhaps Tormail will also be down. It is entirely possible that there would be no way for them to reach you.
Furthermore, if you take a special interest in security as you say you do, you would have a current PGP Key up and would not have initially asked a buyer to purchase the item in question whilst sending their address unencrypted.
Libertas
-
...
...
...
It is strange as you are essentially asking someone to pay you $2,764.00 without even getting an address off them for delivery of the item you are planning to sell. Perhaps Silk Road will be gone by the time you actually receive the item in question. Perhaps Tormail will also be down. It is entirely possible that there would be no way for them to reach you.
Furthermore, if you take a special interest in security as you say you do, you would have a current PGP Key up and would not have initially asked a buyer to purchase the item in question whilst sending their address unencrypted.
Libertas
Ok, first let me point out that you are misquoting me. You say:
"if you take a special interest in security as you say you do, you would have a current PGP Key up and would not have initially asked a buyer to purchase the item in question whilst sending their address unencrypted."
Please read back to my post. It clearly reads, with no edits:
"We don't have a PGP key up right now so if you don't use PGP you can go ahead and place your order without one (though I recommend that you do... c'mon, why take the risk?). I don't plan on there being a huge
rush for am item like this, but don't worry if you need a PGP key to place your order. If you confirm that you are going to place the order whenever I get a key up, I'll go ahead and take the listing down for you."
That last sentence was intended to mean, confirm that you are going to place the order when I get a key up using a PM in the forums or by a SR PM. I didn't specify that because I thought it would be understood. My mistake.
I would never request someone not use PGP; however, you would be surprised how many people DO NOT encrypt their addresses when placing orders on SR. When I was an active vendor, nearly 1/4th of our customers never encrypted their address, and some of my real life friends still do not despite my consistent pleas and warnings. I said people who do NOT use PGP can go ahead and place an order, and those who do don't have to worry about missing their opportunity as long as they notify me before their order is placed.
Then, after a little thought... well let me let you give these too scenarios a moment to sink in then tell me which you think would be more secure:
1. Buyer places order with address either encrypted or unencrypted. I save the address on my computer and wait out the estimated 2-3 months it will take before finally shipping, leaving only my password to safe guard the customers secure information.
2. Buyer places order with no address. I ask the buyer for his/her secure information and retain it only as long as required to ship the product.
However, my reasoning was based on the assumption that since Silk Road has existed, besides the few outages and the recent DDOS attacks, securely for longer than I have ever imagined it to, it will not be going down within the foreseeable future.
If I receive an address I will save it in case I am wrong, otherwise I will ask for it when necessary.
-
In any case, here is my PGP key:
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)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=DT/+
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
~fable(d)
-
Ok, first let me point out that you are misquoting me. You say:
"if you take a special interest in security as you say you do, you would have a current PGP Key up and would not have initially asked a buyer to purchase the item in question whilst sending their address unencrypted."
Please read back to my post. It clearly reads, with no edits:
"We don't have a PGP key up right now so if you don't use PGP you can go ahead and place your order without one (though I recommend that you do... c'mon, why take the risk?). I don't plan on there being a huge
rush for am item like this, but don't worry if you need a PGP key to place your order. If you confirm that you are going to place the order whenever I get a key up, I'll go ahead and take the listing down for you."
That last sentence was intended to mean, confirm that you are going to place the order when I get a key up using a PM in the forums or by a SR PM. I didn't specify that because I thought it would be understood. My mistake.
I did not quote you, thus I did not have the opportunity to misquote you, fable. Perhaps I could have phrased it better: "If you take a special interest in security as you say you do, you would have a current PGP Key up and would not have initially stated that it is okay for a potential buyer to purchase the item in question whilst sending their address unencrypted."
I should think that is more agreeable to you.
I would never request someone not use PGP; however, you would be surprised how many people DO NOT encrypt their addresses when placing orders on SR. When I was an active vendor, nearly 1/4th of our customers never encrypted their address, and some of my real life friends still do not despite my consistent pleas and warnings. I said people who do NOT use PGP can go ahead and place an order, and those who do don't have to worry about missing their opportunity as long as they notify me before their order is placed.
I am fully aware of how few people make use of PGP when placing orders on Silk Road. I am also fully aware of what you said, and feel I was correct in saying that the use of PGP was essential, especially if you were potentially going to be holding on to an address for months, which in itself would most likely break SR rules and result in you having your vending privileges revoked.
Then, after a little thought... well let me let you give these too scenarios a moment to sink in then tell me which you think would be more secure:
1. Buyer places order with address either encrypted or unencrypted. I save the address on my computer and wait out the estimated 2-3 months it will take before finally shipping, leaving only my password to safe guard the customers secure information.
2. Buyer places order with no address. I ask the buyer for his/her secure information and retain it only as long as required to ship the product.
Clearly the second scenario would be "more secure", but that does not address the fact that you would be asking someone to FE on a $2,764.00 order with nothing more than a promise to send something at some undetermined point in the future - something that may never even arrive - and presuming that they can contact you with their details at that point. If it never arrives, you claim you will offer a refund but having finalised the order the buyer would have absolutely zero comeback if you were to simply decide not to refund them. Even worse, you could receive the unit and decide not to send it at all, keeping both the miner and the BTC.
However, my reasoning was based on the assumption that since Silk Road has existed, besides the few outages and the recent DDOS attacks, securely for longer than I have ever imagined it to, it will not be going down within the foreseeable future.
If I receive an address I will save it in case I am wrong, otherwise I will ask for it when necessary.
Nobody knows what the future holds, nor for how long Silk Road will exist. Asking somebody to give you $2764.00 (and that is essentially what you're doing by requesting they FE) based on an assumption is ridiculous. "Past performance is no guarantee of future results", as they say.
In any event, I'm not here to argue with you. I'm here to state that this a bad idea for both buyer and vendor alike, and you will be compromising your identity should this be legitimate and you do end up shipping this miner out presuming you have not already narrowed the search down to well under 100 people by providing the first 7 digits of the 9 digit order number along with the order date.
In light of this you may wish to re-examine the reasoning behind your assertion that you take a special interest in security. This is not secure in the least which is one of the reasons I suspect it to be a scam - no vendor would be foolish enough to give themselves up like this, and if they are that foolish then I need say no more on the matter.
Libertas
-
Good god, I don't have as much time to waste on here as Libertas obviously does. Order the miners if you want, if not I'm sure I'll have them off my hands within a week or so.
-
Good god, I don't have as much time to waste on here as Libertas obviously does. Order the miners if you want, if not I'm sure I'll have them off my hands within a week or so.
I clearly and concisely addressed the points you brought up, fable, nothing more. I do have quite a lot of time to be here though - it IS one of my jobs, after all.
I would still recommend that you sell the miner - if it exists - on the clearnet, somewhere that is completely unrelated to your identity here. If you sell this to someone all they will have to do is make a phone call to Butterfly Labs and they will be able to find out your name and address. Again, that's the reason that I feel this is more of a scam than anything else, because no vendor would be that stupid, especially after having that pointed out to them.
Libertas
-
Sounds like a scam to me!
why dont you just sell the pre-order on ebay like others are doing?
The whole asics miner sounds like a scam anyway.not one has been shipped and what little evidence shown of units existing has been produced by people very closely associated to Butterflylabs.
-
Libertas,
is it common practice for a moderator to tell vendors that there scammers? to tell customers to shy away from vendors? As you can already tell, by just simply browsing a few pages a day, you are not liked, at all. This guys 2700$ machine will bring quite the SR commission, as your in a paid position let me give you a little back ground you may have heard before...dont bite the hand that feeds you, got it?
-
Libertas,
is it common practice for a moderator to tell vendors that there scammers? to tell customers to shy away from vendors? As you can already tell, by just simply browsing a few pages a day, you are not liked, at all. This guys 2700$ machine will bring quite the SR commission, as your in a paid position let me give you a little back ground you may have heard before...dont bite the hand that feeds you, got it?
You won't get a rise out of me, sellitall99. Sorry. :)
To answer your question, no it is not common practice for a Silk Road forum moderator to tell a Silk Road marketplace vendor that they are a scammer - nor have I done that, if you read above. I am not here to protect vendors, I am here to protect the community. If you read anything that I wrote in the previous posts you would see the reasons that I believe this item being listed is a bad idea. If it is indeed genuine then it will remove the vendor's anonymity - as the vendor has sold illegal products previously, this is not something they should desire. If it is not genuine, then a buyer will lose $2,764. It is a lose-lose situation.
The commission on a $2764 sale would be $64.96 - I'm not sure that would count as "quite the SR commission" but thanks for your concern about my finances.
Libertas
-
Libertas,
is it common practice for a moderator to tell vendors that there scammers? to tell customers to shy away from vendors? As you can already tell, by just simply browsing a few pages a day, you are not liked, at all. This guys 2700$ machine will bring quite the SR commission, as your in a paid position let me give you a little back ground you may have heard before...dont bite the hand that feeds you, got it?
Ah, he's just trying to help people out. I know I wouldn't trust buying one of these on SR, they are even scamming them on eBay. He was just looking out for the good of the community.
I can totally vouch for fable. if its the same as i think it is, he was my first sr pot vendor i used over a year ago. sad to see you're not still in the business fabled!
cindelle! Thanks for speaking up for me... I remember handling a few of your orders. (= We had to step out of the game because we got scammed a few times and robbed at gun point. Our guy was also tired of handling our weight and wanted to move us up the supply line. We decided to call it quits before we got out of our league. I do miss it sometimes, though. Silk Road has some great customers to deal with.
And I ended up working out an agreement with one of my friends about my miners so the listings are down now.
-
Sounds like a scam to me!
why dont you just sell the pre-order on ebay like others are doing?
The whole asics miner sounds like a scam anyway.not one has been shipped and what little evidence shown of units existing has been produced by people very closely associated to Butterflylabs.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html#post36397
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/members/bfl_jody.html
I check them everyday ::)