Silk Road forums

Market => Product offers => Topic started by: usdexchange on May 17, 2013, 02:07 am

Title: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 17, 2013, 02:07 am
About me:
I have a client who is in the process of anonymously acquire large quantity of BTC. For this reason, we won't be going through MtGox. We will attempt to sell USD in the mail here in order to acquire more (getting large quantities of BTC anonymously is harder than you think). This is why we charge less for your BTC than market value. We prefer large clients that do bulk, and the discount you get will reflect the amount.

First 50 orders, we will even pay for the seller fee:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/79700d9876

Since I this new account doesn't allow us to post here, please contact us on the main SR site for any questions. We would love a bump though.

This post is meant to be moved from the newbie section to the product offer section by a moderator. http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=160574
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 20, 2013, 01:32 pm
Update: testing out moneypak, may soon add this in addition to cash in the mail.

Reviews: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=161258
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: nuggets5 on May 20, 2013, 02:35 pm
This will be great. How safe is cash in the mail? I had a friend get almost 5k in the mail when he was trying to buy bud. So what is the best pratice?
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 20, 2013, 03:32 pm
This will be great. How safe is cash in the mail? I had a friend get almost 5k in the mail when he was trying to buy bud. So what is the best pratice?

According to our PI, cash in the mail is relatively safe, as long as the proper precautions are taken. When we ship it in quantities greater than $2000, we will vacuum seal it as if it were drugs.

Moneypak is also available for more instant transactions.
My torchat is: [REDACTED] (best way to reach me, as I don't keep Tor Browser open all the time).

##########
Do NOT ask people to contact you off-site:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=160616.msg1148601#msg1148601

Libertas
##########
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 20, 2013, 03:37 pm
Testing our first MoneyPak transaction, we pay all escrow fees:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/9b2018f9b2
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 20, 2013, 10:30 pm
Free $3 for testing service
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Technician on May 20, 2013, 10:45 pm
You will do well here!
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 20, 2013, 11:21 pm
Moneypak is also available for more instant transactions.
My torchat is: [REDACTED] (best way to reach me, as I don't keep Tor Browser open all the time).

You may not ask customers to contact you off-site for transactions. Doing so violates the Seller Contract which you agreed to abide by upon purchasing vending privileges. ALL transactions must go through the Silk Road ordering system.

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: brusselsprout on May 21, 2013, 02:42 am
I could be mistaken, but I think they just meant to use torchat for communication, so that buyers could have the vendor carry out the transaction asap via the SR listing, rather than waiting for the vendor to check their outstanding orders on SR. Sort of like, "Hey vendor, I have BTC, I want a MP right now, this second, get on SR and service me!"

Maybe I'm too trusting?
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 21, 2013, 03:24 am
I could be mistaken, but I think they just meant to use torchat for communication, so that buyers could have the vendor carry out the transaction asap via the SR listing, rather than waiting for the vendor to check their outstanding orders on SR. Sort of like, "Hey vendor, I have BTC, I want a MP right now, this second, get on SR and service me!"

Maybe I'm too trusting?

I understand where you're coming from but in this case, it is irrelevant; as a result of the service that the vendor is providing here, it means that all business could be completed via TorChat if he provides a means by which buyers can contact him and engage in instant transactions. That is strictly not permitted. Backup communication means may be provided as a backup in case of a long term site outage - they may not be used so as customers can contact a vendor to arrange a transaction. All of that MUST be done through the Silk Road messaging system or the Shopping Cart.

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 21, 2013, 03:28 am
I could be mistaken, but I think they just meant to use torchat for communication, so that buyers could have the vendor carry out the transaction asap via the SR listing, rather than waiting for the vendor to check their outstanding orders on SR. Sort of like, "Hey vendor, I have BTC, I want a MP right now, this second, get on SR and service me!"
You are absolutely correct.

Maybe I haven't been on SR in a long time, but seems like things have changed. Apparently now we have this jokester calling himself "Libertas" signing each post with "Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor" and then going around telling people - don't communicate beyond channels we control.

In fact, the other post I've seen of this guy is him pulling the same rule on me earlier FOR GIVING SOMEONE 0.1 BTC TO SPAM TO 50 FOR ME. Is this guy seriously insisting some average user to create a vendor account so he can sell me 10 minutes of his spare time for 0.1 btc?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=161217.msg1147381#msg1147381

Why would he even differentiate torchat and PMs here? I suppose that only means that PMs are monitored. Thankfully I use PGP and I hope to cater to those who also know it. ATTN: Customers, all sensitive communication should be encrypted from now on. Please provide me with your encryption keys.

Now that my rant is over, here's what I came to post. Our prices versus our competitors in chart form.
http://xqz3u5drneuzhaeo.onion/users/qicpic/files/y7.png



Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 21, 2013, 03:33 am
I understand where you're coming from but in this case, it is irrelevant; as a result of the service that the vendor is providing here, it means that all business could be completed via TorChat if he provides a means by which buyers can contact him and engage in instant transactions. That is strictly not permitted. Backup communication means may be provided as a backup in case of a long term site outage - they may not be used so as customers can contact a vendor to arrange a transaction. All of that MUST be done through the Silk Road messaging system or the Shopping Cart.
So you insist users use a lower form of communication, there must be a good reason for that. What is that reason?
1. SR collects the fee that it can't live without.
2. ? ? ?
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 21, 2013, 03:47 am
You are absolutely correct.

Maybe I haven't been on SR in a long time, but seems like things have changed. Apparently now we have this jokester calling himself "Libertas" signing each post with "Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor" and then going around telling people - don't communicate beyond channels we control.

Are you serious? I'm quoting directly from the rules you agreed to abide buy upon purchasing vending privileges. ???

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Seller%27s_Guide#Listing
Quote
NOTICE: Do not create listings that instruct customers to pay outside of escrow, or are used for any purpose other than to list an item to be sold for the listed price using the site checkout system. If you instruct your buyers to pay you in any other way, or to contact you off-site, your seller privileges WILL be revoked. You may provide back up contact methods such as an email address in case of site failure, but may not link to other e-commerce websites.

Perhaps you should re-read them, as breaking the terms of the Seller contract (http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/register_seller), which includes all the terms set out in the [EDIT: Seller's] Guide, will lead to you having your account suspended.

In fact, the other post I've seen of this guy is him pulling the same rule on me earlier FOR GIVING SOMEONE 0.1 BTC TO SPAM TO 50 FOR ME. Is this guy seriously insisting some average user to create a vendor account so he can sell me 10 minutes of his spare time for 0.1 btc?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=161217.msg1147381#msg1147381

Yes, I did. If you break the rules, expect to be pulled up on it. That 'average user' was not expected to create a vendor account to sell you 10 minutes of his spare time for 0.1 BTC, but you were expected to create a listing on YOUR vendor account so as he could purchase 0.1 BTC from you in exchange for 10 minutes of his spare time.

Why are you attempting to make me look like the bad guy here when you're the one breaking the rules that you agreed to abide by? ???

Why would he even differentiate torchat and PMs here? I suppose that only means that PMs are monitored. Thankfully I use PGP and I hope to cater to those who also know it. ATTN: Customers, all sensitive communication should be encrypted from now on. Please provide me with your encryption keys.

Now that my rant is over, here's what I came to post. Our prices versus our competitors in chart form.
http://xqz3u5drneuzhaeo.onion/users/qicpic/files/y7.png

TorChat is different than PMs here not because I differentiate between the two, but because DPR differentiates between the two and has stated as part of the Seller contract that you are not to instruct buyers to contact you off-site. If you have an issue with this, feel free to take it up the chain to them.

Encryption is certainly advised, and I commend you for encouraging its use.

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 21, 2013, 03:51 am
I understand where you're coming from but in this case, it is irrelevant; as a result of the service that the vendor is providing here, it means that all business could be completed via TorChat if he provides a means by which buyers can contact him and engage in instant transactions. That is strictly not permitted. Backup communication means may be provided as a backup in case of a long term site outage - they may not be used so as customers can contact a vendor to arrange a transaction. All of that MUST be done through the Silk Road messaging system or the Shopping Cart.
So you insist users use a lower form of communication, there must be a good reason for that. What is that reason?
1. SR collects the fee that it can't live without.
2. ? ? ?

You can contact the admins here if you wish to complain that you have an issue with not being permitted to break the terms of the Seller contract:

inigo:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?action=profile;u=38344

Dread Pirate Roberts:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?action=profile;u=1

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: HEATFan on May 21, 2013, 04:01 am
This is interesting. Could you please clarify something for me because I'm not sure I'm understanding this.

I send you $490 in BTC. You will mail me $500 in cash? I don't need to FE and I send you the coin after I receive the cash?
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: brusselsprout on May 21, 2013, 04:17 am
This is interesting. Could you please clarify something for me because I'm not sure I'm understanding this.

I send you $490 in BTC. You will mail me $500 in cash? I don't need to FE and I send you the coin after I receive the cash?
I presume it will work like any sale. He'll list X amount of USD cash for Y amount of USD in BTC via escrow, and you'll finalise like normal when your cash arrives.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 21, 2013, 05:14 am
1. I've never seen these rules enforced until twice today.
Quote
NOTICE: Do not create listings that instruct customers to pay outside of escrow, or are used for any purpose other than to list an item to be sold for the listed price using the site checkout system. If you instruct your buyers to pay you in any other way, or to contact you off-site, your seller privileges WILL be revoked. You may provide back up contact methods such as an email address in case of site failure, but may not link to other e-commerce websites.
2. I didn't ask for out of escrow. You deleted my "back up contact methods"
3. Maybe you should go after all those $0 listings. I should be last of your worries.
4. What's the point of creating a $0 listing, have him buy it, and then give him btc. I just saved 2 steps.
5. I'm making you look like the bad guy because you flaunt freedom yet restrict ours. Just because they are "rules" don't make them right. Maybe you are forgetting that DRUGS ARE AGAINST THE RULES.

Quote
You can contact the admins here if you wish to complain that you have an issue with not being permitted to break the terms of the Seller contract:
Again, I didn't break any rules (in this thread). You can argue about breaking the rule with a trivial 0.1 transaction, but even cops have common sense to know when to enforce certain laws. My problem isn't with the rules. It's with your hypocritical farce. I only had 10 posts and you nit picked two of them.


I send you $490 in BTC. You will mail me $500 in cash? I don't need to FE and I send you the coin after I receive the cash?
Sort of, but with seller fees, it's a bit higher than $500.
I have an FE policy in my profile. Generally, most folks should start with $100 order.
You release escrow after you recieve the cash assuming you comply with my FE policy.
Basically, if you are an honest vendor looking to cash out consistently long term, I'm your guy. If I suspect scammer, I will request FE.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 21, 2013, 05:26 am
One more thing. How is the seller guide even a cite-able source?
It doesn't even explain the seller fee schedule! Probably one of the most important things to a bendor, is actually not listed as something the seller needs to know.
And then there is horrendously indecipherable crap like this:
Quote
From the link on your account page, you may accept advance payments on your orders that are currently in escrow. You'll see four numbers and a form field in a “cash advance” control panel. The first number is your limit. If your total outstanding advance payments meet or exceed this limit, you may not accept any more cash advances. The next number is the total of your advances currently outstanding. The third number is the difference between the first two, the total still available to you. The fourth number is the current fee for taking a cash advance. When you put the amount you want advanced to you in the input field and click go, that amount is immediately credited to your available account balance. This credit comes from the expected payments of your most recent transactions. When those transactions are eventually finalized, your account is not credited for them because you have already been paid. If a full or partial refund is issued for one of the transactions, your account is debited by the amount you were advanced plus the fee (or a prorated amount in the case of a partial refund).

For example, you sell a 20 btc item and then a 10 btc item. Your account page tells you that you have a 15 btc cash advance limit and the fee is currently 10%. You need all 15 btc, so you enter in 15 and click go. First, you are advanced 9 btc from the most recent 10 btc sale (10 btc minus the 10% fee). Then you are given a partial advance from the previous sale: 6 btc for a total of 15 btc. Let's say the 20 btc sale goes off without a hitch and the buyer finalizes the order. At that point, you would be paid 20 btc minus the 6 you were advanced, minus 10% of 6 (0.60 btc) for the fee, for a total of 13.4 btc. Next, let's say the 10 btc sale goes to resolution and you give your customer a 100% refund. In this case, you've already been advanced 9 btc and need to pay the 10% fee for a total of 10 btc, the original price. Therefore, 10 btc will be subtracted from your available account balance. If this causes your account to go negative, then any future deposits or payments will go toward reducing that negative balance.

The limit and fee are both self-adjusting according to a few simple parameters. The limit is governed by how much recent business you've done, and how much money you are expected to be paid from escrow. The fee is determined by the supply of and demand for the funds available for cash advances.
I have read this section at least 5 times and I still don't understand what that's saying. Maybe you;d like to explain it since you know the rules so well.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: HEATFan on May 21, 2013, 05:29 am
Sort of, but with seller fees, it's a bit higher than $500.
I have an FE policy in my profile. Generally, most folks should start with $100 order.
You release escrow after you recieve the cash assuming you comply with my FE policy.
Basically, if you are an honest vendor looking to cash out consistently long term, I'm your guy. If I suspect scammer, I will request FE.

Neat. What if I am just a buyer, looking to make a profit? If you are buying bitcoins above the market rate, I would be happy to sell you many of mine over a long period of time. I don't see why anybody wouldn't.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Zulu on May 21, 2013, 05:34 am
Sort of, but with seller fees, it's a bit higher than $500.
I have an FE policy in my profile. Generally, most folks should start with $100 order.
You release escrow after you recieve the cash assuming you comply with my FE policy.
Basically, if you are an honest vendor looking to cash out consistently long term, I'm your guy. If I suspect scammer, I will request FE.

Neat. What if I am just a buyer, looking to make a profit? If you are buying bitcoins above the market rate, I would be happy to sell you many of mine over a long period of time. I don't see why anybody wouldn't.

This, im still feeling an attempted scam but time will tell
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 21, 2013, 05:52 am
1. I've never seen these rules enforced until twice today.
Quote
NOTICE: Do not create listings that instruct customers to pay outside of escrow, or are used for any purpose other than to list an item to be sold for the listed price using the site checkout system. If you instruct your buyers to pay you in any other way, or to contact you off-site, your seller privileges WILL be revoked. You may provide back up contact methods such as an email address in case of site failure, but may not link to other e-commerce websites.
2. I didn't ask for out of escrow. You deleted my "back up contact methods"
3. Maybe you should go after all those $0 listings. I should be last of your worries.
4. What's the point of creating a $0 listing, have him buy it, and then give him btc. I just saved 2 steps.
5. I'm making you look like the bad guy because you flaunt freedom yet restrict ours. Just because they are "rules" don't make them right. Maybe you are forgetting that DRUGS ARE AGAINST THE RULES.

1. The reason you have never seen these rules enforced until twice today - with you - is because other vendors know the rules and abide by them. If they do not, they are pulled up on it and rarely break them again because they know we look for such behaviour.

2. I did not say you asked for anything to be done out of escrow, I stated that you performed an out of escrow transaction. It doesn't matter how large or small that is; it is not permitted here.

3. The $0 listings on the main site are not my concern - I have been appointed to be a moderator on the forums. However, $0 listings are permitted for BTC exchange sales, but ALL sales must go through the Silk Road order system.

4. The point is that all transactions must go through the Silk Road ordering system, as noted in point 3.

5. I'm not restricting anyone's freedom, I am ensuring that all vendors are treated equally and all vendors abide by the rules that DPR has put in place. I agree with you fully that just because something is a rule doesn't always make it right - however, if you wish to do business on Silk Road, you must abide by the rules which you agreed to abide by. Drugs are not against the rules here, so that is a truly ridiculous comparison to attempt to make. Drugs are "against the rules" in many societies, whether we agreed to abide by the laws that enforce those rules or not. However, in this instance, you AGREED to abide by the rules set out in the Seller contract, and are blatantly refusing to do so.

Quote
You can contact the admins here if you wish to complain that you have an issue with not being permitted to break the terms of the Seller contract:
Again, I didn't break any rules (in this thread). You can argue about breaking the rule with a trivial 0.1 transaction, but even cops have common sense to know when to enforce certain laws. My problem isn't with the rules. It's with your hypocritical farce. I only had 10 posts and you nit picked two of them.

You did indeed break the rules in this thread. You told potential buyers that they could contact you off-site for "more instant transactions", as is evident by the following post:
Moneypak is also available for more instant transactions.
My torchat is: [REDACTED] (best way to reach me, as I don't keep Tor Browser open all the time).

It doesn't matter how "trivial" a transaction may seem to you. The fact of the matter is that you cannot conduct such transactions. Your problem is indeed with those rules, as you don't seem ready or willing to follow them. As for your posts, I nitpicked two of them because you were breaking the rules governing your vending on Silk Road. Having to engage with you on problems in 2 of your 10 posts should, perhaps, give you an idea that you're doing something wrong.

I send you $490 in BTC. You will mail me $500 in cash? I don't need to FE and I send you the coin after I receive the cash?
Sort of, but with seller fees, it's a bit higher than $500.
I have an FE policy in my profile. Generally, most folks should start with $100 order.
You release escrow after you recieve the cash assuming you comply with my FE policy.
Basically, if you are an honest vendor looking to cash out consistently long term, I'm your guy. If I suspect scammer, I will request FE.

Again, you clearly have not read the rules. You are NOT permitted to ask buyers to FE until you have been a vendor for one month or more and have made 35+ transactions. You are in violation of both of the rules below:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Seller%27s_Guide#Listing

Quote
NOTICE: Do not create listings that instruct customers to pay outside of escrow, or are used for any purpose other than to list an item to be sold for the listed price using the site checkout system. If you instruct your buyers to pay you in any other way, or to contact you off-site, your seller privileges WILL be revoked. You may provide back up contact methods such as an email address in case of site failure, but may not link to other e-commerce websites.

NOTICE: If you are a new vendor, you may not ask your customers to finalize their orders and release payment to you before you ship, a practice known as "finalizing early". If you do this, you will lose your selling priviledges. Once you have completed 35 successful transactions and have been a seller for at least one month, you may ask your customers to finalize early without reprocussion. In no way do we support finalizing early in general and this rule should not be construed as support for finalizing early for more established vendors.

I have given you ample opportunity here to acknowledge that perhaps that had been a mistake and you hadn't fully understood the Seller's Guide. I have also advised you on what you are doing wrong, but you still insist that you do not need to follow the rules.
As a result, I have passed this up to Silk Road administrators as it would seem that if you refuse to read the Seller's Guide and refuse to follow two of the most basic rules here, you will likely be inclined to break a lot more of them as you progress.

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: nuggets5 on May 21, 2013, 05:59 pm
This will be great. How safe is cash in the mail? I had a friend get almost 5k in the mail sezied when he was trying to buy bud. So what is the best pratice?
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 21, 2013, 08:20 pm
Neat. What if I am just a buyer, looking to make a profit? If you are buying bitcoins above the market rate, I would be happy to sell you many of mine over a long period of time. I don't see why anybody wouldn't.

Yes, everyone is welcome. I don't differentiate between buyers and vendors. Just assuming vendors be higher consistency customers. My current rates are such that there's not really much profit to be made if you're looking for arbitrage opportunities. Rates do adjust according to demand and they probably won't go lower.

Libertas, alright man. What's the name of your manager and how can I expect to hear from him?
Regarding FE for new vendors. That's fine with me. Guess I'll just remove my high value listings.

nugget, sorry for neglecting your post. Got caught up with libertas. Special precautions must be taken care of when shipping cash. It is no less illegal to ship large amounts of cash than drugs. I can't comment on your friend, but best practice is probably to vac it.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 21, 2013, 09:04 pm
Libertas, alright man. What's the name of your manager and how can I expect to hear from him?
Regarding FE for new vendors. That's fine with me. Guess I'll just remove my high value listings.

I reported it up this morning so Vendor Support should be in touch with you in the near future.
In the meantime, please re-read the Seller Contract and Seller's Guide.

Regarding the above, I was simply trying to steer you in the right direction as you were doing things incorrectly. Though there has obviously been some miscommunication in this thread, if you have any problems in future you are more than welcome to PM me about them and I will do my best to help you with them.

Seller Contract
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/register_seller

Seller's Guide
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Seller%27s_Guide

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: shinzon76 on May 21, 2013, 09:48 pm
Does this make anyone else nervous, or is it just me? This could be a LE honeypot to try to catch vendors cashing out. Especially the desire for large transactions (vendors would be more likely to have large amounts of BTC).
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 23, 2013, 02:30 am
Libertas, got it. Although one of my complaints is that the seller guide is not concise and clear. After reading it, I feel like it's consistent with my existing understanding of SR, but I can remember anything specific passages. I think one of the issues is, it is more of a guide, not contract. Some effort needs to be made to dilute the contractual obligations that I agreed to as a vendor, and put it into the contract, so that it's numbered list of roughly 1 page. If the vendor is unsure what some of the terms mean, then he is redirected to the guide, which goes into detail about how things work. Right the contract has only a few bullet points, and most are either vague or unenforceable. I suggest opening a different wiki page that vendors can actually edit, and let they themselves create the rules which will govern them.

Does this make anyone else nervous, or is it just me? This could be a LE honeypot to try to catch vendors cashing out. Especially the desire for large transactions (vendors would be more likely to have large amounts of BTC).
I've considered this too. But let's examine why you trust the average vendor here: They sell drugs, and selling drugs is illegal, so law enforcement couldn't be committing crimes to collect data. Now, considering what our business here is essentially a Money Services Business (MSB) that is assisting drug dealers in laundering their money, any evidence collected here would be illegally collected, and would destroy the prosecutors case if presented in court. Not to mention that it's almost impossible to determine if someone is in fact a vendor, and providing evidence beyond reasonable doubt would be even harder.
If the suspicion interferes with the growth of this business, I can personally ship out a few units of drugs to make doubters a bit more comfortable.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: HEATFan on May 23, 2013, 02:59 am
I've considered this too. But let's examine why you trust the average vendor here: They sell drugs, and selling drugs is illegal, so law enforcement couldn't be committing crimes to collect data. Now, considering what our business here is essentially a Money Services Business (MSB) that is assisting drug dealers in laundering their money, any evidence collected here would be illegally collected, and would destroy the prosecutors case if presented in court. Not to mention that it's almost impossible to determine if someone is in fact a vendor, and providing evidence beyond reasonable doubt would be even harder.
If the suspicion interferes with the growth of this business, I can personally ship out a few units of drugs to make doubters a bit more comfortable.

I like this. I want you to send me cash and coke.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: shinzon76 on May 23, 2013, 12:15 pm
I've considered this too. But let's examine why you trust the average vendor here: They sell drugs, and selling drugs is illegal, so law enforcement couldn't be committing crimes to collect data. Now, considering what our business here is essentially a Money Services Business (MSB) that is assisting drug dealers in laundering their money, any evidence collected here would be illegally collected, and would destroy the prosecutors case if presented in court. Not to mention that it's almost impossible to determine if someone is in fact a vendor, and providing evidence beyond reasonable doubt would be even harder.
If the suspicion interferes with the growth of this business, I can personally ship out a few units of drugs to make doubters a bit more comfortable.

Still not convinced. LE CAN and DO commit crimes in the process of gathering evidence; entrapment has a very narrow legal definition. It's not, for example, a bag of oregano that an unsuspecting mark purchases from the undercover cop right before six patrol cars swoop in to place him in handcuffs. Buyers on SR feel safe, not because the vendor and the buyer are mutually committing a crime, but because he or she believes that he or she has some level of plausible deniability stemming from the difficulty for LE here in linking purchases with the purchaser. Without the paper-trail of money changing hands, the end buyer can claim they were completely ignorant of the package.

As I see it, for a vendor potentially interested in your service, the problem with buying USD from you is two fold: first, currency, through it's serial numbers, is traceable in a way a bag of pot or a 10 strip of LSD are not. Secondly, it seems very plausible to me that LE would use this technique to troll for vendor contact information. I think it's safe to assume that the average SR user is spending his or her bitcoins on drugs, and has very little need to cash out. This assures a high signal-to-noise ratio, as it would be likely that the majority of users of your service would be vendors. From this point, it would be very easy to place to recipient under surveillance to wait for the hand-off to the vendor (assuming the vendor was smart and using a drop address). If they miss the hand-off, it would be simple to keep an eye out for the specific serial numbers to whittle away at the vendors anonymity through surveillance camera where the vendor spent the money, etc. Once the identity has been established, the cops would need only watch the suspect until they are sure he's packaged his goods, and bust him in transit as he is making his rounds to the blueboxes scattered around town.

Not trying to destroy your business, but if I have these concerns, others probably would too, so in my opinion, it seems best to address them early.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Chopper on May 23, 2013, 01:42 pm
I can personally ship out a few units of drugs to make doubters a bit more comfortable.

Hey USD - you're welcome to send me a couple of G's of Coke to prove yourself and I'd certainly review to update the community  ;) ;D :P
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 24, 2013, 02:49 am
Libertas, got it. Although one of my complaints is that the seller guide is not concise and clear. After reading it, I feel like it's consistent with my existing understanding of SR, but I can remember anything specific passages. I think one of the issues is, it is more of a guide, not contract. Some effort needs to be made to dilute the contractual obligations that I agreed to as a vendor, and put it into the contract, so that it's numbered list of roughly 1 page. If the vendor is unsure what some of the terms mean, then he is redirected to the guide, which goes into detail about how things work. Right the contract has only a few bullet points, and most are either vague or unenforceable. I suggest opening a different wiki page that vendors can actually edit, and let they themselves create the rules which will govern them.

The vast majority of the vendors here seem to have absolutely no problem with the Seller's Guide. It is not "more of a guide, not a contract" - point 5 of the Seller contract (out of only 7 points in total) explicitly states:
Quote
Read the Seller's Guide. Don't skip this step as it includes further information you will held accountable for as a Vendor!

Therefore, it can be presumed without doubt that the passages set out in the Seller's Guide are considered an intrinsic part of the Seller contract.

Allowing vendors to create rules to govern themselves is a ridiculous suggestion. Finalising Early would be enforced by the majority of vendors, they would allow themselves to keep buyer details and addresses, and would allow themselves to list items that are restricted (such as counterfeit currency, stolen goods, child pornography, items whose purpose it is to defraud etc.), completely going against the spirit and wishes of the community.

Vendors are not the most important members here - they are on equal footing with buyers; one is not superior to the other, nor will they be permitted to be.

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 24, 2013, 08:12 pm
Hi all,

I've received the following PGP signed and verified message from usdexchange; they have asked me to post it here:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hey Libertas

It seems like I cannot access my SR and forum accounts. I don't know why.
Could you do me a favor and post this signed message unto my thread?
Also, please contact SR admin to let them know this is the case.
Let all users know that my account might be compromised or something.

Thanks
USDexchange
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRn8YRAAoJEDjlVJLZrLgMz14IAKdwurA6zkMQBfmi2p7cbS6x
aSuVeWJ9cXKaMlOlO5bVxQtV5z0QUwpQyimZoDPcMH5JcC/n+9XTMgpQIEWKHTGd
wYb9dcgkU8sip/J+wErDkWGYbhZZJUOUyFZRFwcP41tLPTXdYqSvUy1/MhRUkglI
gy+UcS6mJb2C6nGlcsEUzqsZZDpcN2o0OoPgipe81K8uFrsWrJvheFyS5uuULl8B
9QDaYWuGorKL1P+Efbl5sXRwwrIJm7X0aAhf88fk/0FR/sIQUtZ0DTCmX5E8GvnU
ZUUY/aFJe4Gqb+nrnj9tNurYjd625xEWbgpyMqcn0OuVwMcsmJFM857NTdv0GDU=
=ZunT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 28, 2013, 05:38 pm
Everything is good now. However, I will be going on vacation in 2 weeks, and will no longer take orders after 1 week.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: HEATFan on May 28, 2013, 05:53 pm
I've considered this too. But let's examine why you trust the average vendor here: They sell drugs, and selling drugs is illegal, so law enforcement couldn't be committing crimes to collect data. Now, considering what our business here is essentially a Money Services Business (MSB) that is assisting drug dealers in laundering their money, any evidence collected here would be illegally collected, and would destroy the prosecutors case if presented in court. Not to mention that it's almost impossible to determine if someone is in fact a vendor, and providing evidence beyond reasonable doubt would be even harder.
If the suspicion interferes with the growth of this business, I can personally ship out a few units of drugs to make doubters a bit more comfortable.

Still not convinced. LE CAN and DO commit crimes in the process of gathering evidence; entrapment has a very narrow legal definition. It's not, for example, a bag of oregano that an unsuspecting mark purchases from the undercover cop right before six patrol cars swoop in to place him in handcuffs. Buyers on SR feel safe, not because the vendor and the buyer are mutually committing a crime, but because he or she believes that he or she has some level of plausible deniability stemming from the difficulty for LE here in linking purchases with the purchaser. Without the paper-trail of money changing hands, the end buyer can claim they were completely ignorant of the package.

As I see it, for a vendor potentially interested in your service, the problem with buying USD from you is two fold: first, currency, through it's serial numbers, is traceable in a way a bag of pot or a 10 strip of LSD are not. Secondly, it seems very plausible to me that LE would use this technique to troll for vendor contact information. I think it's safe to assume that the average SR user is spending his or her bitcoins on drugs, and has very little need to cash out. This assures a high signal-to-noise ratio, as it would be likely that the majority of users of your service would be vendors. From this point, it would be very easy to place to recipient under surveillance to wait for the hand-off to the vendor (assuming the vendor was smart and using a drop address). If they miss the hand-off, it would be simple to keep an eye out for the specific serial numbers to whittle away at the vendors anonymity through surveillance camera where the vendor spent the money, etc. Once the identity has been established, the cops would need only watch the suspect until they are sure he's packaged his goods, and bust him in transit as he is making his rounds to the blueboxes scattered around town.

Not trying to destroy your business, but if I have these concerns, others probably would too, so in my opinion, it seems best to address them early.

Do you plan to address this post and also do you care to fill us in about what happened with your account recently?
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: nuggets5 on May 28, 2013, 08:44 pm
I'm still scared about getting cash seized in the mail.


I want to buy 15k of bitcoins a week if this is possible with cash in the mail
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 29, 2013, 01:52 am
heatfan: I planed to and didn't get around to it since the forum account was compromised. What I believe happened was that I had set my email as fake125@fakemail.org, which could have been a real person's email address. I believe that person (probably a phishing operation) used it to reset my password. My email has been changed and hasn't been any problems since then.

1. LE CAN and DO commit crimes in the process of gathering evidence: Can you cite a reputable source on this? I hear this often but haven't seen any proof of documented cases or testimonies.
2. The end buyer can claim they were completely ignorant of the package: That's plausible deniability MIGHT apply if you were otherwise 100% clean.
3. Your claims sorta contradict each other. On one hand, you claim LE can commit crimes, like sell here on SR, on the other, you claim that there's deniability when you receive that order (in the case that you purchased drugs from the SR LE).
4. I don't think that's a proper usage of the phrase "troll."
5. Cash can be equally hard to trace if remained on the black market.
6. I agree with almost everything else you said, except the operation you describe is far from easy. Since I ship to all US locations, that would mean if I were LE, I'd have to be a federal organization. Then to deploy men and cameras in all these places over a period of months or years collecting tiny bits of information on relatively small drug dealers. That is a multimillion dollar operation. I don't think the feds will pay or have time for that, just to catch some small time internet vendors.

Nuggets5, I'm selling USD, not BTC. If that was a mistake, then 15k cash a week would have to be broken down to several smaller shipments.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: nuggets5 on May 29, 2013, 03:24 am
Oh sorry, I thought I could buy mass bitcoins off of you, sorry
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: sellitall99 on May 29, 2013, 04:11 am
So let me know if i got this wrong, i send you my bitcoins, they are worth less then what your going to give me, now you the vendor are left with virtual untraced currency witch is fairly stable at this point but alot less then the USD. I really have no risk in loosing money and you have all the risk at the same point your buying bitcoins for a loss. Am i getting this right? are they real bank notes? only was i could see this working is if you sold bitcoins at a 20% inflation in a different listing, even then its not worth your time with all the scams you would get. looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, fuck it might be a duck.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 29, 2013, 05:14 am
nuggets5, are you seriously trying to buy $15k worth of BTC a week? Our sales are growing rapidly, and we might reach a weekly cash limit if growth continues. I'd be happy to sell you extra BTCs that come my way if you are willing to pay a premium.

sellitall99, please read our profile before you start duck accusations.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: sellitall99 on May 29, 2013, 05:48 am
nuggets5, are you seriously trying to buy $15k worth of BTC a week? Our sales are growing rapidly, and we might reach a weekly cash limit if growth continues. I'd be happy to sell you extra BTCs that come my way if you are willing to pay a premium.

sellitall99, please read our profile before you start duck accusations.

Yup read it over, your actually giving away money...literally. Im completely lost as how you could make money at this unless this "client" pays a surplus on the BTC. lol sounds like a duck.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: HEATFan on May 29, 2013, 05:58 am
nuggets5, are you seriously trying to buy $15k worth of BTC a week? Our sales are growing rapidly, and we might reach a weekly cash limit if growth continues. I'd be happy to sell you extra BTCs that come my way if you are willing to pay a premium.

sellitall99, please read our profile before you start duck accusations.

Yup read it over, your actually giving away money...literally. Im completely lost as how you could make money at this unless this "client" pays a surplus on the BTC. lol sounds like a duck.

He could just be looking for anonymous ways to acquire BTC.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 29, 2013, 06:40 am
wtf does duck even mean?
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Fours222 on May 29, 2013, 01:46 pm
A duck is: A waterbird with a broad blunt bill, short legs, webbed feet, and a waddling gait. The duck family (Anatidae) also includes geese and...


But here's a bump for what looks like a guy who is just getting someone anonymous BTC.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: sellitall99 on May 29, 2013, 04:27 pm
lmao im fucking with ya man
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 29, 2013, 10:05 pm
We are currently around $8k in sales, all in less than 2 weeks. Let's try to reach $10k before end of 2nd week (in 2 days). I am give the person who finalizes and pushes the limit over $10k a 10% bonus (up to $40). If it's MP order, I will refund you the escrow fee!
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 30, 2013, 04:11 pm
New policy in profile. New sample listings here:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/73a2e66345
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/e52b40b0b9
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/c981146270

The other option is to put FE% in as the shipping.
For the sake of simplicity, might be best to remove the 25% and 75%
Please give us your feedback on this new policy and if listings make sense and how to improve user friendliness.

We have several large orders coming in, and may just suspend cash-in-mail until after my vacation. This allows us time to gather up prepare cash for faster service.
All existing orders will be able to be fulfilled.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 30, 2013, 09:18 pm
Any vendor who feels secure about purchasing MoneyPaks can publicly announce their needs here with a link to their vendor profile.

Your reputation can be put on the line and I can send MPs first for up to $1k at a time.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 31, 2013, 11:52 am
scrap the FE% shit. New customers don't need to FE unless <$1k in buyer stats.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 31, 2013, 12:10 pm
scrap the FE% shit. New customers don't need to FE unless <$1k in buyer stats.

Vendors are not permitted to ask any buyers to FE until they have made 35+ transactions and have been a vendor for one month or more; please re-read the Seller's Guide - as part of the Seller contract it contains further information you will held accountable for as a Vendor. If you break the terms of the contract you have with Silk Road (which encompasses everything contained in the Seller contract and the Seller's Guide) your vending privileges will be revoked:

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Seller%27s_Guide#Listing

Quote
NOTICE: If you are a new vendor, you may not ask your customers to finalize their orders and release payment to you before you ship, a practice known as "finalizing early". If you do this, you will lose your selling priviledges. Once you have completed 35 successful transactions and have been a seller for at least one month, you may ask your customers to finalize early without reprocussion. In no way do we support finalizing early in general and this rule should not be construed as support for finalizing early for more established vendors.

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 31, 2013, 12:37 pm
libertas: that's why I scrapped it.
Although... I have ~25 + ~10 more in escrow or so transactions and approaching $20k in sales. Good thing after my vacation, you cannot be on my ass about this crap anymore. Although I do appreciate you making those posts for me :)
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 31, 2013, 12:59 pm
libertas: that's why I scrapped it.
Although... I have ~25 + ~10 more in escrow or so transactions and approaching $20k in sales. Good thing after my vacation, you cannot be on my ass about this crap anymore. Although I do appreciate you making those posts for me :)

You stated "New customers don't need to FE unless <$1k in buyer stats." - I'm simply pointing out that requesting that a buyer with <$1k in buyer stats FE's is against the rules, something you would be aware of if you read the Seller's guide as I advised you to do when you first decided to break the rules here.

I'm on your ass about it because you're breaking rules. I would not be on your ass about it if you were not breaking rules. It is a simple case of cause and effect.

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on May 31, 2013, 05:37 pm
Genuine Question: do I not have the right to cancel orders? That statement merely saves them the hassle of canceled order.
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Libertas on May 31, 2013, 06:08 pm
Genuine Question: do I not have the right to cancel orders? That statement merely saves them the hassle of canceled order.

You certainly do. However, you do not yet have the right to request that buyers FE as you implied would happen should a new customer with a low amount spent attempt to purchase one of your listings:

Quote
New customers don't need to FE unless <$1k in buyer stats.

Libertas
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: Digital Buddha on May 31, 2013, 09:31 pm
Just follow the rules, bro.

We need you around!
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: nuggets5 on May 31, 2013, 10:29 pm
This is exciting, if anyone has any proper ways to securely and safely mail large amounts of cash, please let me know
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on June 01, 2013, 08:17 pm
Just follow the rules, bro.

We need you around!
Thanks for your support
Title: Re: Selling USD mailed to any US address for below market value
Post by: usdexchange on June 03, 2013, 11:13 pm
We are thinking about adding gold and silver into our sales. Anyone interested?

$1500 - 1 oz Gold
$300 - 10 oz Silver