Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Jordz on May 13, 2013, 01:26 pm
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Hey
Just wanted to enquirer how long sr take to decide on a resolution?
Placed an order from a vendor who I have dealt with before only to have it not turn up, I originally asked the vendor to resolve to which he was polite etc in messaging but once asked again received no reply.
Another thing that worried me was the promise of tracking which when asked for was told it wasn't kept.... And in the same message asked me to fe! Needless to say this didn't happen.
So we are not under review and the vendor made a point in the resolution of stating that my stats had refund and auto finalise rates! In over 69+ transactions my refunds have been less than 1% (0.8 to be exact) and auto finalise 2.5%.
I'd also appreciate other buyers who have been in a similar position provide some insight as I'm worried I will have 700 dollars flushed down the toilet!
Thanks again
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Edited to make more sense:
I placed 2 orders with the same vendor to be packaged together which didn't arrive so I opened a resolution. The due date (when an admin steps in) was about 1 week ago. For 1 of the orders it was resolved on that day but the other is hasn't been resolved yet - not sure why.
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Hey
Just wanted to enquirer how long sr take to decide on a resolution?
Placed an order from a vendor who I have dealt with before only to have it not turn up, I originally asked the vendor to resolve to which he was polite etc in messaging but once asked again received no reply.
Another thing that worried me was the promise of tracking which when asked for was told it wasn't kept.... And in the same message asked me to fe! Needless to say this didn't happen.
So we are not under review and the vendor made a point in the resolution of stating that my stats had refund and auto finalise rates! In over 69+ transactions my refunds have been less than 1% (0.8 to be exact) and auto finalise 2.5%.
I'd also appreciate other buyers who have been in a similar position provide some insight as I'm worried I will have 700 dollars flushed down the toilet!
Thanks again
There is currently a Support backlog and an administrator will review the resolution when they reach it in the queue. Regarding the vendor making a point of your stats, you can read more about how resolutions are decided here:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Frequently_Asked_Questions#How_are_resolutions_decided
Libertas
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There is currently a Support backlog and an administrator will review the resolution when they reach it in the queue. Regarding the vendor making a point of your stats, you can read more about how resolutions are decided here:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Frequently_Asked_Questions#How_are_resolutions_decided
Libertas
Hey, thanks Libertas for that link, I have now an order under review, and made me happy to learn it won't affect my stats since vendor has disappeared, and never answered to resolution, so as per the faq this won't appear as a refund in my stats, which is great being a noob with not too many purchases yet! :)
If I have to wait a bit more for the resolution due to the attack caused lag, so be it, it's a minor problem for me in this case!
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Hey, thanks Libertas for that link, I have now an order under review, and made me happy to learn it won't affect my stats since vendor has disappeared, and never answered to resolution, so as per the faq this won't appear as a refund in my stats, which is great being a noob with not too many purchases yet! :)
If I have to wait a bit more for the resolution due to the attack caused lag, so be it, it's a minor problem for me in this case!
You're very welcome! :)
Be sure to mention that as the vendor has been banned, the refund should not affect your stats. From what I've heard off other forum users this can sometimes be forgotten!
Libertas
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Well actually I just mentioned that there had been no response from the seller, when I updated the resolution after a few days unanswered, and it has just been resolved, I got a 100% refund and kept my record clean! ;D so I'm as happy as can be, thinking of my next order.
Thanks to this community which oozes awesomeness!!!
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Well actually I just mentioned that there had been no response from the seller, when I updated the resolution after a few days unanswered, and it has just been resolved, I got a 100% refund and kept my record clean! ;D so I'm as happy as can be, thinking of my next order.
Thanks to this community which oozes awesomeness!!!
Excellent, glad to hear it! :D Best of luck with your next order! :)
Libertas
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The pain in the ass about resolution is you realise your order ain't going to turn up after waiting 3 weeks, you go to resolution and the time is extended as requested, then you have to go to resolution again because you know your order ain't gonna show up ever and loads of other folk on the forum are giving out about the same vendor and then you have to wait another bunch of extended days while you know you have no other coins in your account and all of a sudden you see something for sale that has you drooling but you gotta wait till the last extended day you requested in resolution comes around to get your dollar back in order to purchase your new found gem! Patience needed!!!
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I understand hittheroad. Try this one on for size. I made a purchase in escrow. Vendor marked in transit and then messaged me that he would ship it once I finalized. I refused to finalize and wanted to stay in escrow and told the vendor to cancel the order if it could not remain in escrow. No response from the vendor. The vendor has now been outed as a scammer and SR suspended his account. I messaged SR Support explaining the situation and asking them to cancel the order since the vendor admitted to not sending it unless it would be finalized first. SR Support responded by saying the vendor's account is suspended and they are working with the vendor. So basically they know he tried to scam me, I stuck to SR escrow protocol and they won't cancel the order. Guess they are enjoying the profits of BTC's rise since my order is hedged. I'm very disappointed in the lack of protection offered to customers here.
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I understand hittheroad. Try this one on for size. I made a purchase in escrow. Vendor marked in transit and then messaged me that he would ship it once I finalized. I refused to finalize and wanted to stay in escrow and told the vendor to cancel the order if it could not remain in escrow. No response from the vendor. The vendor has now been outed as a scammer and SR suspended his account. I messaged SR Support explaining the situation and asking them to cancel the order since the vendor admitted to not sending it unless it would be finalized first. SR Support responded by saying the vendor's account is suspended and they are working with the vendor. So basically they know he tried to scam me, I stuck to SR escrow protocol and they won't cancel the order. Guess they are enjoying the profits of BTC's rise since my order is hedged. I'm very disappointed in the lack of protection offered to customers here.
Hi cabbagehead,
If the vendor had 35+ transactions and had been selling here for one month or more then he was entitled to ask you to FE before sending. You were completely right not to, of course, but there is nothing in that particular action to suggest that the vendor "tried to scam [you]", so you are being rather disingenuous when you state:
"So basically they (SR Support) know he tried to scam me, I stuck to SR escrow protocol and they won't cancel the order."
He most likely was trying to scam you, but SR Support decisions must be made on verifiable facts, not conjecture.
The process that must take place in such cases has been mentioned all over the forums recently; SR Support do NOT cancel the orders. You must put the order into resolution when the option becomes available to you and request a full refund. Any refund given under circumstances where a vendor has been suspended will not affect your refund rate.
As you can see, there is full protection fot buyers in cases such as this when they stay in escrow.
Libertas
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He offered FE for free express, FE for priority or priority in escrow. Everyone who attempted to used escrow received the same message as I did. So the whole escrow isn't a real option (which would be disingenuous). That's a fact several other customers have verified, not disingenuous. What do you call offering escrow as an option, but not allowing anybody to use it?
I also have been a member for quite a while and have flawless stats. And nobody who has FE has received so, yeah , he's a scammer. Read the rumor mill and you will see similar stories. It would be one thing if he claimed to sent the package, then I would understand waiting until resolution, but that's not the case. I asked for him to cancel if he required FE and he read but no response. SR is aware, that is why they have suspended the account. So basically, SR wants it to go to resolution so they make the fees plus any increase in BTC's from hedging. This might be last transaction on SR since it's so reactive and not proactive.
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And here's my stats before you say maybe it's the stats that caused him to ask to FE
Total transactions: 70
Total spent: $10165.19
Refund rate: 0%
Auto-finalize rate: 0%
Member for: 1 year
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He offered FE for free express, FE for priority or priority in escrow. Everyone who attempted to used escrow received the same message as I did. So the whole escrow isn't a real option (which would be disingenuous). That's a fact several other customers have verified, not disingenuous. What do you call offering escrow as an option, but not allowing anybody to use it?
I also have been a member for quite a while and have flawless stats. And nobody who has FE has received so, yeah , he's a scammer. Read the rumor mill and you will see similar stories. It would be one thing if he claimed to sent the package, then I would understand waiting until resolution, but that's not the case. I asked for him to cancel if he required FE and he read but no response. SR is aware, that is why they have suspended the account.
What do I call offering escrow as an option, but not allowing anybody to use it? I call that a choice that a buyer has to make whether to deal with that vendor or not. Escrow is indeed a real option, as is evident by your use of it and refusal to FE (which I commend you for).
I did not say the vendor is not a scammer; in fact, what I said was:
He most likely was trying to scam you, but SR Support decisions must be made on verifiable facts, not conjecture.
SR Support have to conduct an investigation into the vendor's behaviour and must be 100% certain that scamming has occurred before suspending him. For instance, it may be the case that the person dropping off packages got busted, or the postal service became aware of a vendor's packaging method, or countless other possibilities. The vendor's account is suspended whilst these investigations take place.
So basically, SR wants it to go to resolution so they make the fees plus any increase in BTC's from hedging.
Do you honestly believe that is the case?! The process that is in place is there for a reason; it protects both buyers and sellers in the event that something goes wrong. If a vendor is suspended pending investigation and Silk Road cancels all their orders and returns the BTC to customers, but the investigation proves that the vendor did nothing wrong, then the vendor will be out of pocket through no fault of his own. You will not get special treatment simply because you feel a bit put out that you have to wait a few days to receive your refund.
Silk Road does not make any money on refunded orders when a vendor has been suspended. The buyer is refunded in full, and that refund does not affect the buyer's refund rate. Furthermore, Bitcoin's value fluctuates both up and down so your inference that Silk Road actually wants the order to go to resolution to make money on any (potential) increase in Bitcoin's value from hedging is ridiculous.
This might be last transaction on SR since it's so reactive and not proactive.
It is a free market; you are more than welcome to take your business elsewhere if you do not find Silk Road to be to your satisfaction, cabbagehead.
Libertas
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I understand that SR should protect both. But when a simple reading of the vendor's outgoing messages shows he won't send to customers who use escrow, what else do you need to know. Those who used escrow should be refunded because it's a material fact (not conjecture) that an item was marked in transit and not sent and that escrow was never a real option. Those are all facts. If there was any claim by the vendor (not in this case as demonstrated by his own messages) that an attempt was made, I could understand the wait time. It literally takes 15 minutes to match the messages to the customers in escrow to see this.
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I understand that SR should protect both. But when a simple reading of the vendor's outgoing messages shows he won't send to customers who use escrow, what else do you need to know. Those who used escrow should be refunded because it's a material fact (not conjecture) that an item was marked in transit and not sent and that escrow was never a real option. Those are all facts. If there was any claim by the vendor (not in this case as demonstrated by his own messages) that an attempt was made, I could understand the wait time. It literally takes 15 minutes to match the messages to the customers in escrow to see this.
In is NOT a material fact that an item was marked in transit and not sent, regardless of the shipping options ("FE for free express, FE for priority or priority in escrow", according to your previous post). Silk Road advises against Finalising Early for ANY reason, but if buyers wish to do so, they are taking that risk on their own bat. Escrow was an option in this case as you stated yourself: "priority in escrow" was a shipping option, and presumably the one that you chose as you did not FE according to the vendor's shipping policies. If you chose a different shipping option that did require FE, but chose not to do so, then you did not follow the vendor's shipping policies making your entire argument a moot point whatever way you look at it.
As I stated previously, vendors that have 35+ transactions and have been selling here for one month or more are entitled to ask you to FE before sending, therefore if a message was sent asking you to FE because you had chosen a "FE shipping option", that would be normal and not reasonable grounds for an administrator to believe that a vendor is scamming.
If you have read DPR's statement on the Support Delays in the main Silk Road discussion forum, you will know that SR Support is currently very backed up. If you have not, I would recommend that you do so. It would take a lot longer than 15 minutes to go checking messages from vendors to individuals, then examining each order to see whether the buyer was required by the vendor's shipping policies for each individual order to FE before shipping or not, so please do not assume that it can all be done with the flick of a wrist.
The system that is currently in place is the best way of dealing with situations like this one when they arise. If you believe there would be a better way to handle it, feel free to start a thread in the Feature requests forum with your suggestions and if they have merit they will be taken into consideration.
Libertas
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Maybe I'm not being clear enough for you. Here is the message, that everyone who chose escrow received from the vendor:
Hey thanks for the order! :) Once you let me know which strain you would like it will be all ready to go. Your current choices are Girl Scout Cookies, Larry 18 and some great Flower Bomb, just let us know what you would like as soon as possible. We'll send it out tomorrow once we see you have finalized, you may then contact us any time after that with your order number for your shipping and tracking number. If you've got any other questions feel free to message us back.
Best regards,
Cali
As you can see, he clearly states, "We'll send it out tomorrow once we see you have finalized". Hence, he did not send it. He refuses to respond to anyone who replies that they won't finalize early. Those are his words not conjecture.
I understand the process and why it works. If the vendor was clever, he would have replied that those that don't finalize early will experience delays or something to that extent and then the delay for investigation would make sense. But he didn't. He clearly states it will be sent out when finalized. His words no mine.
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Maybe I'm not being clear enough for you. Here is the message, that everyone who chose escrow received from the vendor:
Hey thanks for the order! :) Once you let me know which strain you would like it will be all ready to go. Your current choices are Girl Scout Cookies, Larry 18 and some great Flower Bomb, just let us know what you would like as soon as possible. We'll send it out tomorrow once we see you have finalized, you may then contact us any time after that with your order number for your shipping and tracking number. If you've got any other questions feel free to message us back.
Best regards,
Cali
As you can see, he clearly states, "We'll send it out tomorrow once we see you have finalized". Hence, he did not send it. He refuses to respond to anyone who replies that they won't finalize early. Those are his words not conjecture.
I understand the process and why it works. If the vendor was clever, he would have replied that those that don't finalize early will experience delays or something to that extent and then the delay for investigation would make sense. But he didn't. He clearly states it will be sent out when finalized. His words no mine.
In that case, the established process is to message the vendor asking if they will cancel your order; if they refuse to do so, you may cancel it yourself after 4 days. However, if they put it 'in transit', than you take it to resolution after 10 days and explain the situation to the administrator, including any evidence that may help your case.
That will now not need to be done - as the vendor has been suspended, you will simply need to request a 100% refund.
I know you might think it is a simple process to match up messages and read every one of them where the vendor has stated to buyers that they will need to finalise, but given how slow things actually are when using Tor and the huge volume of messages that an administrator would have to go through (along with checking the order that the message relates to in order to see which shipping option was selected and if the vendor is right to send such a message) it is simply not possible to do that.
In any event: wait the 10 days, hit 'resolve' and request a 100% refund.
Libertas
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Thank you. I thought I posted the message in this thread but it must have been another one. Those were the steps that I took. He immediately marked in transit so cancel wasn't an option. (I think it's a bullying strategy for people who are in a hurry, kinda using the system against the customer but an system has flaws). I immediately messaged him to cancel and it was read with no response. I started a thread to warn others and quickly found others in my situation. I reported the vendor and notified support staff. Others on here including Festavalia (who deserves thanks for his efforts) contacted the vendor to see if he would respond and what the response would be and everything I stated was confirmed. Once I heard his account was suspended, I was trying to see if my BTC's would be released since the vendor stated he didn't send it. I guess I still have to until resolve is an option.
On a side note, has SR administration discussed setting up some type of system where established members or admins or mods could attempt purchases (from dummy accounts) from vendors as a proactive measure. Just a thought. I know it's hard because there are scammer buyers and scammer vendors that ruin it for everybody. Just a suggestion because there are some of us on here (a lot) who don't mind working for the greater good.
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One thing that needs to be changed about the Resoloution system is when you buy a few products off one vendor it its counted as different orders so if you order 3 products off one vendor and it falls thru no fault of your own, you now get 3 refunds counted against you!! which is not fair Its really only 1 complete order that got refunded. This should be changed
Come to think of it Im going to post this in the customer support forum!
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One thing that needs to be changed about the Resoloution system is when you buy a few products off one vendor it its counted as different orders so if you order 3 products off one vendor and it falls thru no fault of your own, you now get 3 refunds counted against you!! which is not fair Its really only 1 complete order that got refunded. This should be changed
Come to think of it Im going to post this in the customer support forum!
I have moved your thread to the Feature request forum as it is not a customer support issue.
Libertas
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Thanks Libertas I seen that, Im a retard, I dont know why I didnt figure that one out