Thanks for clarifying that the marketplace and the forums are two different sites, I am sure PrincessHIGH is well aware of that though. I notice that "How much less is considered an "underweight package" " is not in Shipping, but in Discussion. Technically, this could mean that the entire Shipping section should merge with Discussion, as it deals with product traded on the marketplace. It also means that the entire Philosophy section is now supposed to somehow be put in Off topic, as this whole section is clearly nothing to do with Silk Road marketplace. It also means that about 75% of Security, too, should be in Off topic, as a lot of this is cryptography and system security. This approach seems very weird and I think a lot of us are wondering why it has been changed in the first place? Over the last week I have noticed as much as 75% of the Discussion section churned into the Off topic, possibly under this new philosophy. I have also noticed that a thread from another member to discuss this was started, though, one of his questions – why is there such a sheer volume moving – was unfortunately not answered.
I am not getting involved in this thread's discussion - it is about forum karma, for crying out loud. This is hardly something to be getting in any way upset about or even discussing in detail. It is meant to be a 'fun' addition to the forums. I will, however, attempt to answer some of your questions.
PrincessHIGH asked for clarification on whether the Silk Road forums were part of Silk Road discussion; whether she is aware of it or not is not an issue - I was asked to clarify, and both her question and my response, are here:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=160934.msg1142134#msg1142134
The thread discussing why we were moving threads was indeed answered; the member in question was wondering what was up, and I responded stating that we're simply trying to move things to the correct categories.
If you are one day made a moderator then you will be required to make the calls on which categories you believe topics fit into. For the time being, that responsibility falls on myself and the other forum moderators.
As it stands Off topic has become the dumping ground for what was previously accepted in Discussion. Both myself and apparently others are wanting to know what this will actually accomplish over the former approach. You do realise that, if everything is unilaterally churned into Off topic then there is no chance for members to be informed of important developments? Off topic was the second fasted moving section and this will only push the threads into archive range at a faster rate so you see where we are coming from.
Off topic has not become a "dumping ground" for anything. It has become more active as a result of threads that were in the wrong sections being moved there. Things that were previously accepted by previous moderators as being Silk Road discussion issues are not my concern; if I believe something is in the wrong place then I will move it, unless instructed otherwise by an administrator.
Important developments related to Silk Road itself will, of course, be left in the Silk Road discussion forum. I do see where you're coming from regarding threads being pushed to other pages as a result of the activity in Off topic, but if there is an important issue that affects users use of Silk Road, they will stay in Silk Road discussion as they will obviously be considered pertinent to the topic of that forum.
I'm sorry but one would wonder what possible benefit this new approach might serve? I have to be honest -- and I have a right to state my opinion -- it seems a tad convenient that my thread was immediately moved off the most frequently viewed section on the forums the instant mod negging was brought up. As it stands, there is still a plethora of threads that are still in Discussion that you have basically said should be moved, as they do not have anything to do with the marketplace.
The benefits of this new approach - which I freely admit is being spearheaded by me - is to ensure that the Silk Road discussion forum remains a place where issues concerning Silk Road itself are brought to light and can be addressed and discussed.
Your thread was moved from the most frequently viewed section on the forums to its correct location in the second most frequently viewed section on the forums - Off topic - as it is not discussing Silk Road, nor issues relating to it; it is discussing forum karma, which is an Off topic issue (by virtue of not being a Silk Road issue). If there were a "Silk Road forum" forum, then it would have been moved there.
You know from my previous responses in this thread and others on the topic of karma that I do not consider karma to be an issue worth discussing whatsoever. If you wish to relate the thread's move to something, you are, of course, completely free to do that. I have stated the reason that the thread was moved numerous times in previous posts, and that is all there is to it.
There are no "underhanded manouevers" at play here. It is what it is and was moved by me, a moderator who is here with a job to do, and will do it to the best of my ability regardless of how others view me. I appreciate criticism, both constructive and otherwise, as it helps me do my job and mold myself to the wishes of the community. That being said, if I have explained my reasoning for something and you do not accept it there is nothing to change that.
If, like you said, everything that is not related directly to the marketplace….
The 'Silk Road discussion' forum is for discussion of issues and topics relating to the Silk Road marketplace.
….. then could you kindly explain why these threads are still in Discussion?
The Darknet vs the real dark network. http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=161228.0
Am I just smart or are my friends just really stupid? http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=160098.0
SR Stronger? http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=161145.0
Thank you to everyone anyway http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=160794.0
We need to know what you consider “Off topic” so it does not happen again? The above threads do not directly relate to Silk Road so we would like to know what you consider the difference here between these four threads and mine. I am asking this in all seriousness as I need to know where to post, as you now consider some things Off topic based on strange and peculiar new criteria only you have access to, as opposed to the former normal way of doing things.
Things that are unrelated to Silk Road discussion are considered Off topic discussions. I stated that in my earlier post here:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=160934.msg1142134#msg1142134
The "former normal way of doing things" has indeed been upturned a little by my presence, and I'm discussing with the team about whether or not I should take a looser interpretation of what constitutes Silk Road discussion due to that forum becoming less active than Off topic. If we come to a consensus about that, I will reconsider my position on the matter.
To address your issues with the threads you provided:
The thread "The Darknet vs the real dark network" is a discussion directly about Silk Road and Silk Road ideals, so it fits in the Silk Road discussion forum. There may be a case to be made that it should be moved to Philosophy, Economics and Law and I will consider doing so if we feel it will fit better there.
The thread "Am I just smart or are my friends just really stupid" is discussing one users use of Silk Road, and whether using it makes him smarter than his peers. It is a discussion directly relating to Silk Road, so it fits into that forum, though could also possibly be considered Off topic discussion.
The thread "SR Stronger" is discussing whether or not people feel that Silk Road is getting "stronger or weaker" now than before, so that also fits in that forum.
Another thing, as this is right on topic. I took a week off forums and my karma was untouched. Since I have started this thread my karma has jumped from -59 to -68 in 24 hours upon even vaguely referencing that mods were going off second-hand information without even bothering to contact the right sources, and negging selected people constantly as a result, and that nomad bloodbath was a good moderator. Also, PrincessHIGH was negged within one minute when she mentioned that nomad was a good moderator too. Sorry but I find all these little coincidences just little too convenient. Perhaps you could assure PrincessHIGH and I there are no hard feelings present and that we have the right to like one moderator over another without any jealousy arising? Or we might start to get the wrong idea?
What do you expect me to do about the fact that other forum users wish to give you negative karma?!
There is nothing I can do about it if people are disagreeing with things you are saying. Not everybody agrees with things that I say either, and if they wish to express that they either engage me in conversation or hit the [discourage] button. That's just the way it is. Perhaps people disagree with the fact that you care so much about forum karma, something that is obvious when people attract negative karma simply for bringing up the issue of karma in a thread.
Do you honestly pay that much attention to "negging", though? I mean seriously Razorspyne, you're getting bent out of shape about something that is completely innocuous. Both you and PrincessHIGH could have been "negged" by any forum member for any previous posts you've ever made in these forums, at any time. There is currently no way of finding out who awarded karma to whom and for what reason, so everything you're stating in that regard is conjecture, and you're quite possibly linking two completely unrelated events to one another. Coincidence or not, there is literally nothing we can do about this.
I can assure you that I have no reason to have "hard feelings" against anyone. You both contribute to the community here and your contributions, regardless of their topic, are appreciated as they stir discussion on issues and encourage more community members to get involved. That is ALWAYS a good thing in my books.
I also checked a post you wrote the other day. You wrote we were free to express any opinion we liked b/c the forums was a “free” place. Are we still allowed to write threads and pay tribute to good mods like microRNA, Guru and nomad bloodbath without getting negged? If everyone is getting negged – and we have established who by, as we have been closely monitoring your actions since this wild negging began – when other mods are brought up, then this is a serious issue and you need to tell us immediately.
Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
You are indeed free to express any opinion you wish as this is indeed a free place. How is forum karma impacting on that freedom in any way whatsoever?!
You are not being censored, and I will not allow you to be censored. Freedom of speech is my personal number one priority here, and I will protect that in any way that I can.
As for "closely monitoring your actions", you are more than welcome to do that though I'm not entirely sure what you're attempting to achieve with it. As I have stated, I have a job to do here and I am going to do it as best I can. I don't hold grudges, nor has any one given me reason to begrudge them.
In any case, doing a job such as this in a community like the one we have here, it is impossible to please everybody. I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to attempt to ensure that this community can operate as freely and efficiently as possible, and compartmentalising information so that it can easily be found by looking in the right forum. That job will be done to the best of my ability whether I receive applause or criticism for it, from any corner.
Libertas
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