The solution is to get a powerful enough group that they can use violence to enforce rules without being crushed. But they need to only enforce a single rule, which is nobody can initiate force against others. If people initiate force against others then they need to have escalating force used against them, slightly more than they have used against others. Militant libertarianism is the answer to the problems of the world, provided enough people support it for it to be meaningfully implemented. Suffering is caused by bad humans having power over other humans. Imagine I have a magic notebook and if I write the name of anyone / group / type of person in it then they die. I think in such a case it would be fair to say that I have power over all of humanity, I can kill anyone or even everyone If I want to. However, if I only use this power to kill those who initiate force, despite having power over all of humanity, only bad people will be affected by me. I write the name of the DEA in the book and they all die, so in a way I have caused suffering, but people who do not needlessly fuck over others for their own benefit have nothing to worry about. Is that really such a bad thing then, that I have power over everyone ? People who fuck over others need to be stopped. It doesn't matter what the majority of people think , they are brainwashed or power hungry themselves. There is no moral need for people who are capable of stopping evil people, to wait for society to say it is okay to stop evil people. The thing is in a libertarian society you are free to select your own defense agency. Who exactly is going to abuse you Astor? All you really say then is that libertarians can not gain enough power to protect themselves from evil people (which mostly boils down to everybody who is not a libertarian, although in their favor some of them are just brainwashed or idiots). I really don't understand how some of you, like jpinkman, can be so infatuated with the government and statism. To me, the thought of majority rules just makes me cringe. It is like saying you are okay with the holocaust if the majority of people say it is okay, and anybody who tries to stop the execution of the Jews must be terrorists for going against the will of the people. You should realize that democracy is especially dangerous due to the fact that the majority is easily brainwashed, they 'think' with their emotions rather than logic and they are largely uneducated on any issues they would be voting on. It is a bunch of greedy, emotional, gullible, mystical, illogical, uneducated people deciding on the fate of themselves and their neighbors, And really they are so easily influenced that it becomes a bunch of sociopathic extremely greedy and fantatical (either to God or the collective) assholes who use the people to meet their own goals. I am not at all for democracy. First of all, nobody has any right to tell me what to do so long as I mind my own business and don't fuck with other people. That alone is enough to justify me not bowing to the state, even if the majority of dumb fucks think that I should. Additionally, when the masses are ostensibly in charge (although they never are in reality, considering they are easily manipulated by the elites), they make stupid choices that result in not only me being oppressed, but in god damn everybody except the select few being oppressed. The elites can split society up into a thousand minority groups and get the majority to turn against them. But oh noez everybody is part of some minority group, so it is divide and conquer. The solution is to take power away from the elites and away from the people, and to violently enforce libertarianism. Nobody has any reason to bitch about this happening, libertarianism permits everybody to do whatever the fuck they want so long as they do not initiate force against others. The people who do not want enforced libertarianism ALL fall into one of the following camps: 1. They want to steal money from others ("I am entitled to free health care and other shit!!111") 2. They want to tell other people what to do ("No drugs for you! No gay marriage for you! Worship my God or else!!!!") it is that fucking simple. Because the majority of people want to hold a gun to their neighbors head and steal their shit, or hold a gun to their head and make them worship their God, or hold a gun to their head and make them follow their moral compass, they are against libertarianism. So only evil people are against libertarianism. Nobody is against libertarianism because they are afraid they will be oppressed, because there is absolutely no other ideology that is as freedom loving as libertarianism. No moral ideology can possibly be more freedom oriented than 'do whatever the fuck you want just don't hurt anybody other than yourself in the process'. We need to have global libertarianism, and the people enforcing it need to gain so much power over the world that there is absolutely no chance of them ever losing it, democracy and the government and everybody else be damned.