Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - kmfkewm

Pages: 1 ... 192 193 [194] 195 196 ... 249
2896
Security / Re: The final step in the block chain?
« on: May 05, 2012, 01:59 pm »
good reading, "money laundering using new payment methods"

http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/reports/ML%20using%20New%20Payment%20Methods.pdf

Quote
Internet payment services are increasingly interconnected with different new and
traditional payment services. Funds can now be moved to or from a variety of payment methods,
ranging from cash, money remittance businesses (e.g., Western Union), NPMs, bank wire transfers, and
credit cards. Furthermore, some IPS providers have started to issue prepaid cards to their customers,
thus granting them access to cash withdrawal through the worldwide ATM networks.

amazingly this report on money laundering is talking about many of the same things I am

2897
Security / Re: The final step in the block chain?
« on: May 05, 2012, 01:30 pm »
Really can you show me a link to anyone who has been busted after layering money through multiple e-currency accounts / exchangers or better yet mixes and then cashing out with an anonymous ATM? No you can show me examples of carders who used stolen and exploited cards to drain ATMs, where LE knew to look at CCTV footage and they didn't use any disguise at all. How are you going to get caught when the trail goes absolutely dead at a blind mix? The money taken out of a blind mix can not be tied to who put it in, the money Alice takes out of the mix could have been put in my Bob or Carol or any of the thousand other people who used the mix, and if its a blind mix that will have a cryptographic proof showing that even the mix operator can not link finances in and out. That breaks the link between the coins out of the mix and the path they took prior to the mix, law enforcement can send Alice marked coins and when they get to the mix they have a thousand different potential suspects who all have an equal probability of being Alice.  Alice is well protected from ever being identified as the person LE sent dirty money to (via a financial trace) at this point, her only risk is that she could be identified as using a mix which is suspect in itself. But lo and behold Alice cashed the bitcoins out to another sort of E-currency based offshore, then sold them to an exchanger in Russia for a money wire that she picked up with a fake ID, or to an ATM card she obtained with totally fraudulent documents with no links to her and cashed out at a random ATM with a mask on (not that she needs to wear a mask considering LE will never follow the trail to her cash out point, and the only reason she is using a fake identity to cash out is so she doesn't have a fifty thousand dollar deposit from no where show up in her bank account, I know people who were raided by the IRS because of how many money wires they were sending with their real ID, if they used a bunch of fake IDs to send the payments they would have never been flagged and it would mean fuck all that they were on CCTV because LE never would have known to look for them, unless you are paranoid about facial recognition algorithms and hella advanced surveillance at these places, which I guess is not something to discount entirely from possibility). LE  has no chance in hell of following their marked money to Alice because of the mix and there is no way that Alice is going to be identified as using a mixing service because she layered the finances she got out from the mix through e-currency companies / cashed them out with an ATM card with no ties to her.

Now Alice is left with a chunk of unaccounted for cash and you get to do all of your specialty on it to integrate it back into the economy and make it so Alice can pay taxes on it and make it blend in perfectly with her legitimate income, but its bullshit to claim the process mentioned above is not money laundering just because it doesn't specify integration techniques.

2898
Security / Re: The final step in the block chain?
« on: May 05, 2012, 12:49 pm »
Where did I ever say that ATM legitimizes your funds? You guys obviously both work in finance because your minds are stuck thinking on one extremely specific model, that's probably an artifact of your line of work. If you think ATM cash outs are only good for small amounts of money you are crazy, cash out teams have taken out millions of dollars in a half an hour before

http://www.dailytech.com/Cyberthieves+Steal+9M+in+Worldwide+ATM+Heist/article14147.htm

Quote
An FBI official told WNYW that a number of unidentified “cashers” – low-level pawns in the overall scheme – hit 130 different ATMs around the world within a 30-minute period, withdrawing roughly $9 million.

not the best example because for one almost all of the cash out people were identified from ATM cameras (they didn't wear disguises) , and for two they had hackers who kept resetting the card limits allowing them to keep cashing out more. But if you have ten cards with a $1,000 a day limit nothing at all is stopping you from cashing out $70,000 in a week, that isn't really small change. And I never said that cashing out at an ATM makes the money legitimized I said it makes it so it doesn't leave a record under your name, versus say cashing it out to your bank account. And using a mix or layering international exchangers makes it so LE will have a hell of a time ever even knowing that they want to pull CCTV footage from your cash out location in the first place, something else that cash out crew didn't have going for them since FBI knew every ATM they withdrew funds from and when.

You are thinking in terms of a very specific type of money laundering and it is making it so you can not see other types, in reality money laundering is a process, you are fixating on one aspect of this process.

And yes people pay bums and kids to do cash out all the time

2899
Security / Re: okay now I know Tony got busted...
« on: May 05, 2012, 12:32 pm »
I disagree. DHS was probably used because they do not have any jurisdictional boundaries. They are essential free to roam the earth and persecute whom ever they wish.

This is why I cannot believe some people advocate involving LE in our disputes here. These guys have way too much power already.

DHS is over customs.
ok, I give up--wtf is DHS? Are we talking homeland security? Why would they be involved??

Customs is part of DHS. Many big vendors who end up pwnt are pwnt by DHS, enelysion for one example.

2900
Off topic / Re: holy shit
« on: May 05, 2012, 10:23 am »
never forget

2901
Off topic / Re: Using MSN Anonymously
« on: May 05, 2012, 10:23 am »
Use pidgin, use OTR it uses DH and AES and has probably been audited by at least a few cryptographers, it is probably secure if you use it right. Make sure to use authentication or else you are weak as shit to MITM attacks. You can and should have pidgin route through Tor, and no it isn't a risk to use pidgin and SR at the same time.

2902
Off topic / Re: Make that rich slut cry.
« on: May 05, 2012, 10:18 am »
nice guys don't try to make slutty bitches cry.

If your highschool rep is ruined that is pretty much game over it follows you for the rest of your life :/ sucks to be you

2903
Quote
If tracking says things like "Held by non-customs federal agency,"

We were all quite surprised to see that they announced its interception on tracking, one guess is that it didn't test positive for coke/heroin etc in a field test and they were not sure what it was yet other than that it was a baggie of powder that wasn't declared. It was strange that some agency other than customs was holding it though. In most of the interception cases I am aware of, *something* strange happened with the tracking that indicated things were not normal, although that was the most blatant example. The second case I mention was more subtle though, for one all of the intercepted packages of people who were known to be raided said the packages were return to sender, however this update happened after the controlled deliveries went down. The people involved were aware of the controlled deliveries because the people ordering sent shit to the houses of their workers, not their own homes, so they never actually were busted and quickly got news of the CDs since many people were at the homes when it went down and even though everyone in each house was arrested many were released fairly quickly and got word back to them.  The person who had shit sent to a fake ID box also had return to sender on his tracking shortly after the CD's went down, although he had already decided not to pick up his package since three other locations that were part of that bulk buy had been raided. Also all of the packs were awaiting customs clearance for quite a while longer than was expected, people actually were predicting there were interceptions prior to the CDs. Also for what it is worth, the dumbasses signed for the packs, and almost immediately after signing they were zerg rushed by shit tons of feds and local law enforcement.

There are other instances as well, but I have probably already said more than I should have :S.  Even if they manage to totally hide any irregularities in tracking when interceptions take place, that is where interception detection technology still makes having fake ID boxes great for increasing security in the event of an interception. Unfortunately we still have no designs for these things available, they will be a true god send for bulk importers and make busts due to interception a thing of the past.

2904
Security / Re: The final step in the block chain?
« on: May 05, 2012, 09:09 am »
Step One: Use a mix so the coins can't be tied to any specific drug deal by the time you cash them out

Step Two: Use anonymous ATM cards to cash them out so you don't need to explain the $100,000's that just landed in your bank account. I am pretty sure some of the cards can cash out $1,000 a day so get 100 of them and you could technically cash out 100k in a day :P, one vendor I know has like 8 of them all anonymous so thats ~$56,000 a week in cash out potential with none of it tied to a IRL identity other than the fake / stolen ones used to obtain the cards.

Another option is mix + cash out to western union and pick up with a fake ID

Another option is mix + cash out to another E-currency like pecunix or LR, lots of exchangers for those will cash out to WU for you plus it adds another layer of obfuscation. I still have yet to hear of anyone who uses pecunix + offshore exchangers being traced via a financial trail , it isn't bulletproof by any means but it is still a lot better than paypal, the pigs will need to get records from pecunix + records from the exchanger and that usually involves two different international jurisdictions. Pick the exchangers wire up with a fake ID and it makes it all the harder, now it takes three international jurisdictions and they will end up at a dead end with nothing but CCTV footage if they are lucky.
 
There are two distinct goals, the first is to avoid being traced via a financial trail. Correctly implemented and heavily used mixes do an excellent job of achieving this, better than anything else, especially blind mixes. The second goal is to avoid having unaccounted for money showing up under your name, and risking money laundering charges by being tied to a mix. This can be achieved in a few ways, anonymous ATM cards, anonymous / fake ID wire pick ups , layering traditional E-currency accounts / exchangers in between your bank account and the mix (less secure than the other options but better than nothing, also only good for hiding that you used a mixing service not from hiding that you obtained money) etc. 

Doing either of these things is good and some of them actually help achieve both goals (for example, cashing out with an anonymous ATM will help avoid you being traced through financial trails and it also hides that you obtained money, even if you don't use a mix or anything else), but using both sorts of technique together means you are golden.

What you don't want to be doing is cashing in via a bank account under your own name, using your real IP address at the exchanger, and then sending the bitcoins right to a vendor without mixing them. You also don't want to be taking your coins from SR and then with your real IP address making a deal with an exchanger to get money in your real bank account for them. Doing that is hardly better than using Paypal, although as long as you bounce Bitcoins around a few accounts that are not linked on the network layer you should obtain plausible deniability in an evidence context, but that does fuck all at preventing intelligence from indicating your involvement.

Putting anything into Western Union is suicide because at some point you have to pick it up. Doesn't mean shit if you use a false name because if LE become alerted to you they can pick up your face on cameras. Anonymous debit cards are the same because the vast majority of ATMs have cameras in them so again, there is your face.

If you want to cash out large amounts you need to get a bit more creative than this I'm afraid. If you really want to do it you should never have to physically touch the money or touch something that you have to withdraw the money out on. And fuck me sideways you should NEVER keep your money in the country you live in.

Not trying to rain on your parade here by the way Kmfkewm, your methods above WOULD work for a while but are just too insecure to do large transactions repeatedly over a long period. You need to think outside the box a bit more to do this.

Also you have failed to achieve the fundamental goal, you haven't actually washed any money yet. All you have done is done a few hard-to-trace transfers. What happens if the pigs kick in the door and you have great wedges of cash lying around that you can't explain? You can't tell them you won the lottery or had a good night down the betting shop.

Well they have worked for many years for some pretty major vendors so I think that says something. Never touching the money, never touching anything that cashes out the money, that is hardly practical for most people if it is even possible to do and spend money at the same time. The goal is for it to be anonymized by the time you pick it up, and then you pick it up with these methods simply to avoid having it tied to your name, so theoretically law enforcement never gets to the camera and you avoid ever giving them a reason to pull footage of the cash out. There are ways to cash out at ATM without being identifiable though, although some are fairly sketchy in themselves like wearing masks. People get away with robbing people at gun point in front of ATMs though, so its not a stretch to think you can get away with disguising your face for a short period of time while you cash out your own money at one, and again law enforcement are theoretically never going to make it back to the cash out point to pull footage anyway. Western union is much harder to adequately disguise yourself at, but how long these places keep video for varies if you find a place with a 24 hour loop you will be hoping that law enforcement can't get to it before the footage is overwritten or that they never get to it anyway, knowing how long the loop is for is tricky though and these days it isn't expensive to keep months worth of video footage.

I think you are confusing the reason to cash out with an ATM or fake ID wire though, it isn't necessarily to make it harder for you to be traced (although it certainly is beneficial here as well) but rather to make it so there is not a record of you having the money, or you using a mixing service. By the time you cash out it should already be either virtually impossible for LE to follow the financial trial from their dealings with you to your cash out point (as is the case with proper mixes), or at least very difficult (as is the case with multi international jurisdiction layering). But even if it is impossible for them to follow the money from them sending it to you cashing it out, you don't want to suddenly have unaccounted for deposits of thousands of dollars showing up under your name, and you don't want to be tied to a mixing service either if you can help it. That is where the anonymous ATM cards and fake ID for wire pick ups come into play, although they both do also aid in untraceability.

There are two types of money laundering, the first type aims to make transactions untraceable, so law enforcement can not trace their money back to you. The second type aims to disguise illicit profits and licit profits. It can be seen as a multi step process really, since both compliment each other. Mixes make the money untraceable, cashing out with ATM card or WU with fake information takes care of part of the second goal of disguising illicit profits as licit. You can spend quite a bit of cash fairly secretly and never risk being identified as living outside of your means, buying fancy cars and expensive houses and such are a different story though. I know a few techniques for disguising illicit funds as licit, but this is an area where I think it is more important to not discuss the techniques publicly (versus making transactions untraceable to you from LE perspective, and not drawing attention to yourself by suddenly having ten thousand dollars deposited to your bank account straight from bitcoin-money-laundering.org). You will likely need to have a legitimate front business to pull this off for large amounts, is the most that I will say on the matter. And again, you don't need to legitimize all of your money, if you spend a hundred bucks eating at a fancy restaurant there is no need to spend clean money that you paid taxes on.

Some people employ bums or kids to do cash out for them and then they get the cash handed to them in a location that isn't under surveillance, then pay them like a hundred bucks for their trouble (assuming they hit the maximum limit on a bunch of anonymous debit cards or something, to make it affordable). This risks being robbed, but they have tricks to make this unlikely as well. This has always seemed too exploitative for my tastes though.

2905
Silk Road discussion / Re: If prohibition is lifted
« on: May 05, 2012, 08:00 am »


Here's my point:  Silk Road is about something much bigger than thumbing your nose at the man and getting your drugs anyway.  It's about taking back our liberty and our dignity and demanding justice.  If prohibition is lifted, and the drug industry is placed under the yoke of the state, then we won in a small way, but lost in a big way.  Right now, drugs are ours.  They aren't tainted by the government.  We the people control their manufacture, distribution and consumption.  We should be looking to expand that control, taking back our power, no giving what is ours to the very people that have been our enemies all along.


the major logical flaw in this point is that the very foundation of Silk Road lies in the governments and infrastructures that the anarchists here despise so greatly:  the mail system.  In the USA we all use USPS because there is a law saying they need a warrant before opening packages.  this is an example of how we are using the government to our advantage.  no gov't = no mail = no silk road

I get pissed off at the gov't as much as the next guy, but to say drugs should stay illegal because you don't want them having control over drugs is asinine, short sighted, and selfish (considering you profit hugely off their illegality). 

I'm not saying that legalizing drugs would make everything perfect, but it would sure as hell be better than the current situation of cartels, militias, and prisons.  It would give us the people a slight bit more power because believe it or not, we citizens actually do have a slight bit of influence on the politicians....as opposed to career criminals who we have ZERO influence on.

No mail without government? Have you never heard of UPS, Fedex, DHL? That is as asinine as saying that there would be no shoes without government, if the government created a pseudo-monopoly on shoe manufacture and funded it via taxation.  People see the world through government colored glasses their entire lives and some of them lose the ability to even conceptualize of what the world would look like if they took them off, its a mixture of sad and pathetic. There is a difference between playing off your enemies and supporting them, using USPS makes the most sense for us from a security perspective for multiple reasons so that it what we use, if it were not for the government we could go down to the fucking corner store and pick up our drugs and they would be made in professional laboratories and there would be much higher quality controls.

Of course drugs should be legalized. I don't think SR is so much saying that drugs should remain illegal as he is saying that government should be absolutely abolished in its entirety. I have little doubt he would be in favor of the government mafia making profits off taxed legalized drugs over the government mafia making money off the modern day slave trade, but he is merely saying that we shouldn't be happy when we are allowed to be extorted for money by the same fuckers who are currently selling us into the prison industrial slave trade. Just because it is better to be allowed to pay extortion money to the mafia instead of murdered doesn't mean we should rejoice when they give us the option to pay them "protection money" to avoid being murdered.

2906
What country did that happen?

Also, no [decent] wholesale vendor I know of ships with tracking. It is an interesting concept though.

Both happened in USA. Every wholesale vendor who offers refunds, partial refunds or reships on interceptions or lost packs requires tracking if the customer wants those benefits, especially when the packs have fifty thousand dollars worth of shit in them.

2908
Security / Re: Can LEO set up a seller account
« on: May 04, 2012, 08:27 am »
Unfortunately it can happen because SR is a noob and forgot to include this disclaimer on account registration

Quote
    If you are affiliated with any government, anti-piracy group or any other related group, or were formally a worker of one you CANNOT enter this web site, cannot access any of its files and you cannot view any of the HTML files. If you enter this site you are not agreeing to these terms and you are violating code 431.322.12 of the Internet Privacy Act signed by Bill Clinton in 1995 and that means that you CANNOT threaten our ISP(s) or any person(s) or company storing these files, and cannot prosecute any person(s) affiliated with this page which includes family, friends or individuals who run or enter this web site.

2909
Drug safety / Re: Does MXE cause brain damage?
« on: May 04, 2012, 07:39 am »
imo ketamine is safer considering its highly researched and the research points to it being safe, and MXE is not researched at all.

2910
Drug safety / Re: Most LSD you had at once?
« on: May 04, 2012, 07:36 am »
Just sounds like ego death you can get that from a few hundred ug doses, but I guess taking 10mg+ pretty much ensures it

Pages: 1 ... 192 193 [194] 195 196 ... 249