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If you don't know, you should not have posted this thread.  Why don't you try reading it?

No I read it, I just don't see what it has to do with viewing child pornography. It starts out saying all pornography is bad because it objectifies females. Uhm, yeah... okay. Then it talks about some poor girl who was abducted and murdered by a sex offender, which has about nothing to do with child pornography being legal or illegal to view. Then it said the internet has made all porn, including child porn, much more common, which I already knew and is obvious and is actually one of my original arguments for why CP will be legal to view within a few hundred years and why the original reasoning for making it illegal (it funds child molestation) is now pretty irrelevant. Then it talks about how legal adult pornography is really bad some more, makes the sexist claim that

Men are the No. 1 problem in this country.

, and suggests that parents filter the internet so their kids don't look at legal porn.

I really am just not seeing the relevance of this at all please explain it to me.

Quote

The explosion of Internet pornography, coupled with a rise in dysfunctional families, has made things dangerous for children today, according to a former FBI operative.

Kevin R. Brock talked of these dangerous elements at St. Anne Catholic Church Friday as part of its “Date Night” series for couples.

"It (pornography) is getting harder and harder to avoid," he said. "It is very hard to control. It's piped into our homes now.

It represents a continuous slide toward the objectification and victimization of women and the polarization of the male. Women are no longer viewed as human beings, but as objects to be used selfishly.

“It bleeds into our society. There is a whole generation of young men being desensitized to it and being robbed of having a (normal) relationship with a woman."

Brock worked 24 years for the FBI, rising to the level of assistant director for intelligence.

Tacoma case

In the 1980s, he was working in Tacoma, Wash., when a 9-year-old girl was kidnapped outside an Air Force base in Seattle.

"We would draw a circle around a map for 11 blocks and around the apartment (where the girl was found), and pulled out our records on sexual offenders," he said. There were 39 registered sex offenders in that 11-block radius. Worse, the girl was tortured and killed by a sex offender, "who'd never bothered to register."

The numbers have exploded, he said.

“Then there were 200,000 registered, and now it's over a million. I saw it get worse and worse during my 24 years in the FBI, and as a dad, I took particular interest in this."

Internet porn

One of the biggest changes he saw was the influence of the Internet, which not only provided more and easier access to pornography, but fueled the growth in child pornography.

"In the early ’90s, we'd just about eradicated child pornography, with most emanating from Europe," he said. "Now it is a wildfire. ... Not much else is still illegal. It almost swamped the FBI."

He said crime is nothing like what is portrayed on TV.

"There are two constants," he said. "One is filth. Everywhere we did a search, it was just filthy. The criminal mind is a disorganized mind. Most criminals are pretty sad. The other constant was pornography."

With such easy access to adult pornography, he advises parents to be pro-active, use filters on the TV, tablets and computers, and especially talk to their children about values such as respect and responsibility.

Fathers important

He also advises fathers to be active in their children's lives.

"Over 40 percent of families have single parents, and it's 70 percent in African American communities. Men are the No. 1 problem in this country.

“I saw this consistently in that almost every young man (arrested) had one thing in common, no father or a highly dysfunctional relationship with their father. That wreaks havoc like you wouldn't believe."

Be pro-active

He said the main thing is for parents to be pro-active — don't expect others, or the government, to do their job.

"There is a strong effort in our culture to go after our children," he said. "There are almost 2 million sexual assaults on women in this country. Don't look to the government to save us. There's no way the FBI can keep up with the amount of crime on the Internet. It's up to us."

This is relevant in what way?

From every conceivable and applicable form of logic in discourse when you need to compare the fucking holocaust to child pron you have lost the argument. Period.

Pictures of anything bad can be replaced with pictures of the holocaust everywhere I said holocaust. There, now your thought terminating cliche is irrelevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9

A thought-terminating cliché is a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to propagate cognitive dissonance (discomfort experienced when one simultaneously holds two or more conflicting cognitions, e.g. ideas, beliefs, values or emotional reactions). Though the phrase in and of itself may be valid in certain contexts, its application as a means of dismissing dissent or justifying fallacious logic is what makes it thought-terminating.

I still don't see a valid argument for the legalization of Child Porn, simply because you think it should be legal to view it.  In your own quote, of the 290,000 some of the children were reportedly as young as THREE years old.  It should be legal to view a 3 year old getting molested or raped?  Just because you're anti-censorship does not mean this a worth-while discussion.

It is legal to view images of the holocaust, why not a three year old being molested or raped? Does anybody actually get hurt by the viewing of an image? No of course not. Pictures are not magical items. Looking at a picture does not cause anyone any damage. You just find the idea so repulsive that you want to fuck over anybody who does it. There is no legitimate reason to want to fuck somebody over just because they look at something that you find disgusting. The only reason anybody should ever be imprisoned is if they initiate real direct harm against others. Looking at a picture just simply does not cause harm to anyone.

When you legalize and regulate drugs, you take the criminal element out of it by providing legitimate legal sources for obtaining a cleaner product.  When you legalize child pornography, there is no regulation or legitimate production of it, and therefor you do the opposite.  You promote the production of it, one way or another, by legalizing the viewing of it.

How does it promote the production of it? Nobody has ever been able to really show that. I can give you quotes from Ph.D researchers saying that there is no evidence that the viewing of CP without paying for it causes child molestation, I can give you quotes from Ph.D researchers saying that legalizing the viewing of CP leads to a substantial drop in child molestation rates. You can't show me shit, the best you could hope to show me is the meaningless words of government agencies tasked with arresting people for CP, I can discredit all of them and half of their studies have been debunked, but you don't even bother to dig up some propaganda and show it to me because you just *know* that you are right and you just *know* that I am wrong, because you are a god damn member of the Church Of the Anti Pedo and your faith is strong but baseless.

Do you know what the word renaissance means?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/renaissance

A rebirth or revival.

Quote from: kmfkewm on August 10, 2013, 05:06 am

Jeesh why take all these security threads off topic. I made a fucking post in off topic for this issue why not keep it there instead of derail every single thread with your rants about how wrong viewing CP is. Nobody gives a fuck what you think, and you guys go to every thread you can to let people in it know that pedophiles must be killed, all sex with anyone under 18 is bad, CP viewing is the same as raping little kids, etc. I made a special thread to run logical circles around you guys in, stop taking all these other ones off topic already.

Rants?  You're ranting in several threads about how viewing CP should be made legal.  And aside from a few guys who post attention-seeking threads almost obsessively, I have yet to see anyone take your side.  Perhaps if you want to discuss your philosophies on CP and don't want to get verbally attacked by all of us "drug dealers", you should post on a board dedicated to CP; not drugs.

In every single thread I discuss about CP I am REPLYING to other people who are foaming at the mouth about how bad they want to kill all pedophiles, how CP viewing is child rape, blah blah blah. I do not go to random threads and talk about how I think CP should be legal to view, but several people on this forum , like in this thread, go to random threads and derail them into rants against CP, rants against lowering the age of consent etc. The single thread I actually started about CP was a thread I made to point people to when they start foaming at the mouth in unrelated threads, so that we can keep other threads on topic with out you crusaders becoming hysterical on other threads. Sorry that I do not join the crowd in screaming for death and censorship, but I am not the one who is derailing this threads it is the people freaking out and becoming hysterical.

You made no logical, valid points.  All you have done thus far is get defensive about your views, opening rebuttals with cap-locked laughter, and poor

Sorry I cannot help but laugh when somebody makes the claim that almost all CP is fucking snuff, because they obviously don't have a god damn single fucking clue about what they are talking about. It is funny to me. If somebody makes a post about how smoking weed will make your dick fall off, and they say it with a straight face, I will give a similar laughing reply.

A. Sure, look at freedom hosting, they provided hosting for free to hundreds of CP sites.

B. Look at Freenet, it is a network full of CP and it works because everybody volunteers some of their HD space

C. The vast majority of it is on P2P and Torrent networks, do you know how those work?

D. Even the private forums hosted independently are not for profit. They are similar to private drug forums. Look at the private drug forums you never had to pay to be a member on any of them, and they were all run and paid for by a single admin for the good of the community.

Sure, I need to stop using figure of speech numbers even when this is obviously what is being done, because people will attack me for it and say I am full of shit. But I can give you some concrete citations still!

web.cs.umass.edu/publication/docs/2013/UM-CS-2013-007.pdf

Peer-to-peer networks are the most popular mechanism for the criminal aquisition and distribution of child pornogra-phy (CP).

The last big CP for profit distribution group was busted in 2010. Since then commercial CP selling is almost extinct. It is literally almost 100% freely downloaded with no financial market at all.

https://stevenjohnhibbs.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/international-authorities-bust-a-huge-commercial-child-porn-ring/

Since the websites — with names like “Excited Angels” and “Boys Say Go” — went offline in January, the number of active commercial child porn sites has nosedived from perhaps 300 to the single digits, said Matt Dunn, of the Department of Homeland Security’s Immigration and Custom’s Enforcement (ICE), which was the lead law enforcement agency.

You’ve taken an organization that was distributing large scale child porn and removed them,” said Dunn, of the Child Exploitation Section of ICE’s Cyber Crimes Center. FBI special agent Michael Dzielak investigated the ring with Dunn and other international partners. Like Dunn, he believes the bust has dealt a fatal blow to the child-porn-for-money market — at least for now. “It is a game changer,” Dzielak said.

Eleven members of the child porn ring were located in Belarus and arrested in 2008. In January of this year, Ukrainian authorities arrested five more. The ring used a variety of online and traditional payment methods, elaborate defense measures and a franchise business model one Interpol agent compared to a fast food chain to make millions of dollars providing 10,000 Americans and 20,000 others across the globe access to images and videos of sexually exploited boys and girls, some reportedly as young as 3 years old.

Wow 30,000 customers at the last remaining significant CP distribution site in the world! There are 30,000 people detected downloading CP from P2P networks for free in single fucking cities. Also I note that they think commercial CP distribution sites have fallen to single digits, so I probably over estimated when I said there are still 15.

http://www.vt-icac.org/outreach/read-more-outreach/

Additionally, offenders continue to utilize various venues to exchange, collect and distribute images of child sexual exploitation.  One venue to receive recent attention by offenders and law enforcement alike are the Peer-to-Peer (P2P) file sharing networks.  In the two law enforcement programs created to identify those who share images via these networks (Operation RoundUp and Operation Fairplay), over 20 million different IP addresses were identified as offering files containing child pornography.  The programs have also created specific lists of images investigators have identified as some of the “worst” images available totaling over 290,000 child pornography files that have been made actively available via these file sharing networks by offenders.24

Two single law enforcement operations against P2P networks identified 20 MILLION IP addresses making it available for free, and that is not counting the numbers of people who actually downloaded it but didn't share it from those IP addresses. And that is not taking the free forums into account, not taking the free clearnet sites into account, not taking the Darknet like Tor and Freenet into account. There are probably 100 million people in the world who have downloaded CP for free, in 2010 there were 30,000 people buying it from what was essentially the last commercial distributor in the world.

Let's see then, it looks like I just gave citations that there were in 2010 LESS THAN 15 commercial CP distribution sites left, and that about .01 percent of people who downloaded CP paid for it. So does my argument still seem swiss cheese to you? Because to me it looks like the numbers I gave as estimated figures of speech actually lined up pretty close to reality.

Jeesh why take all these security threads off topic. I made a fucking post in off topic for this issue why not keep it there instead of derail every single thread with your rants about how wrong viewing CP is. Nobody gives a fuck what you think, and you guys go to every thread you can to let people in it know that pedophiles must be killed, all sex with anyone under 18 is bad, CP viewing is the same as raping little kids, etc. I made a special thread to run logical circles around you guys in, stop taking all these other ones off topic already.