Silk Road forums

I am also going to take off after this post, but I will clarify my point for you.

Assuming that "virtual child porn" means a visual depiction that is totally photorealistic but generated via 3D rendering or painting, and "real child porn" is a photograph of molestation:

You are not okay with somebody making virtual child porn using real child porn as a reference. (CP A)
You are not okay with somebody making virtual child porn using a real child as a reference, even if the real child has never been molested. (CP B)
You are okay with somebody making virtual child porn without using a real child as a reference. (CP C)

I wonder then, what if by chance in the future a person is born who grows up to a certain age, and they look identical to the person in CP C? What if they are then molested in the same manner as depicted in CP C, such that if a photograph of the molestation is made, it is to the human eye identical to CP C? Does this retroactively make it immoral for CP C to have been created and viewed by pedophiles? Because in the past you said it was not, but now it is visually identical to real child pornography of a real child being molested.

My argument is that this shows that it has always been the production of real CP that you have an issue with and not the viewing of CP, your mind is just struggling to realize this.

Quote from: kmfkewm on August 25, 2013, 09:50 am

Ok but you said that if someone makes virtual CP using real CP as a reference, and the virtual CP is to the human eye identical to the real CP, that the virtual CP in this instance should be illegal.

So my question is, what if someone makes virtual CP that depicts a real child who exists in reality being molested, but the child was never molested in reality, but the virtual CP looks identical to what it would look like if the person who made it used real CP of the child being molested as a reference.

Please humor me just a bit more, I am going somewhere with this.

edit: also I agree production of CP should in almost all cases be illegal, ignoring self produced shit etc

I still believe the child is victimized. They have no consent, but VR characters tend to look so ambiguous that I wonder why the person needed a reference. If by some god of CPU and an elite 3d max renderer could make it realistic looking, it would still be a violation of rights. It is for adults, unless they consent.

The issue here is that the kids cannot consent.

Okay but if it is virtual CP of a child that doesn't exist, but it looks photorealistic to a child that could exist because of the 3D rendering abilities of the (probably pretty near) future, then you are okay with that? Looks real, not based on a real child, no molestation really took place.

Quote from: kmfkewm on August 25, 2013, 06:40 am

Quote

@samesamebutdifferent: Anyone or Any group who attempts to obtain control/power/influence/cause action/etc through extreme levels of orchestrated violence/mass-murder without regard to the lives of innocent people. Yep that pretty much sums it up.

Well at least you think the government is worse than people who look at CP.

I have a question for the people who think CGI CP should be legal but not "real" CP. What if someone goes to a country where it is legal to download CP, and they download "real" CP and make a CGI representation of it that is identical to the human eye, and then they delete the "real" CP and start to distribute the CGI CP in a country where CGI CP is legal to distribute? Do you have a problem with that as well?

Absolutely, the issue that's presented here is the core issue why many of us disparage this behavior: At some point, some child is abused sexually. That person has now added to the counter, bitcoin waillet, bank account, or whatever to promote that person. The only difference here is that the person is not directly involved.

Sexual abuse comes with so many ill-psychological effects that it's not worth it. Why not just have virtual CP? Why even need the child? Surely, they can imagine what it would look like.

What if they make virtual CP that is identical to what real CP of a real existing child being molested would look like? No problems with that? Also, if you think the number of downloads of CP has a causative relationship with child abuse you are insane, but we can solve that problem with PIR based solutions that hide demand. So please answer, are you fine with CP downloaded from systems that technically hide the demand? Because we can avoid the counter. And I already have said so many times that I do not think it should be legal to buy child porn, that you should just stop making any references to money of any sort at all. "Or whatever" is just a way of saying "Damn you have addressed all ways in which viewing CP could theoretically cause economic demand for child abuse, I need to wave my hands so I can keep with this tired debunked argument because I have not got shit else".

Okay so you think virtual child porn is okay (well it is illegal in the US, shit someone went to prison for 15 months for having a cartoon of the Simpsons kids!), but not if the virtual child porn is made using real child porn as a reference. So the magic voodoo effect that happens when someone views real child porn carries over to virtual child porn that is made with the "real" child porn as a reference (I mean, I don't know what real child porn is. If a master painter makes a photorealistic copy of a CP photograph is it then real child porn?!). But what if they make virtual child porn that is photorealistic to what it would look like if a real child who has not been molested was molested? Real child, virtual porn of the child, not based on anything that happened in reality.


Also I want to add this

[A]s critics like Linda Polman have pointed out, the empathetic reflex can lead us astray. When the perpetrators of violence profit from aid—as in the “taxes” that warlords often demand from international relief agencies—they are actually given an incentive to commit further atrocities. It is similar to the practice of some parents in India who mutilate their children at birth in order to make them more effective beggars. The children’s debilities tug at our hearts, but a more dispassionate analysis of the situation is necessary if we are going to do anything meaningful to prevent them.

I think this is a great example of how having too much emotion and empathy can cloud peoples minds in a dangerous and counter productive way. It is really similar with CP, it causes a strong emotional response in you guys and it makes it so you want to ban CP and death to everyone who looks at it blah blah blah, despite the fact that studies show that when CP is legal child sex abuse rates actually fall. So in your emotionally inspired bid to save the children, you are condemning real children to be molested and you are not doing shit to unmolest previously molested children. It is just like how the people giving money to the mutilated beggar children are actually causing the mutilation of beggar children in the first place! This is the type of shit that happens when you think with your emotions, you feel so good and happy that you just gave some money to a poor beggar child who is blind, but because people like you feel sorry for the blind beggar children and give them money, parents blind their children so they can get more money. That is the result of thinking with emotions instead of logical analysis of the details of a situation.

Sorry, but aside from the illegality of selling drugs, what exactly are these 'huge barriers to entry' for starting a new business that you believe aren't currently possible under the current western system?

(+1 for you, Reason.  A nicely reasoned, non-dogmatic dialogue starter!)

If you operate a Bitcoin exchange you need to know my customers. Running a digital currency exchange in the USA is begging to go to prison even if you try to follow the law. You need to figure out how much tax you owe, etc. If you make a new drug it needs to be approved by the FDA. There are regulations and laws galore, you are naive as hell if you think drugs being illegal to sell is the only way that the government strangles businesses.

Just to clarify, I still think you are a fucking wack-a-doo to think that you should even put "looks at arrangements of pixels" on the same list with "violently kills thousands of people", let alone only two below it.

Terrorist - "Allah akbar I bombed a city and killed three thousand people!"

Rapist - "I raped a bunch of defenseless females and scarred them for life!"

CP Viewer - "I flipped a coin one too many times !!!"

Quote from: Wadozo on August 21, 2013, 11:33 pm

kmfkewm can post what he wants.    That certainly doesn't mean it's right or he's directing the discussion.  How do you propose I stop him?? 

kmfkewm: Does the existence and continual renewing of a body of child pornography reflect a moral shortcoming of our species?

Sure continued renewal is a moral shortcoming, it is wrong to produce CP (ignoring self produced blah blah blah), morality is knowing right from wrong, so the fact that people produce CP is a shortcoming in their ability to either recognize or care about right from wrong, and since they are humans they are part of our species, so the continued production of child pornography reflects a moral shortcoming for our species. The existence of child pornography represents that our species has in the past at least had examples of moral shortcomings, just as pictures of the holocaust reflect the same thing, do you propose that we destroy all pictures of the holocaust as well, to censor that our species has had moral shortcomings in the past?

If not, what is your support for this position? If so, do you think you're helping stop the monsters from creating new monsters with this specific discussion?

??

Its hard to argue with a stupid fuck without a shread of empathy and I am far from foaming at the mouth.

No you are very foaming at the mouth. It is hard to argue with people who think with their emotions. Dude, your entire thought process is not based on reality. It is not based on information, it is closer to the way an animal thinks than the way a human should think. You are quite literally being poisoned to the point of delusional rage by the strong emotions you feel. You have no ability to analyze things or think about things because certain things just trigger this primitive reaction in you and your already probably limited ability to use logic just goes to shit. You might as well start banging on your chest like a fucking ape. 

ACUL whoever the fuck can go fuck themselves too. I dont need to be part of, thank, support any group fighting for my freedom to use or distribute drugs.

American Civil Liberties Union. Liberty being the key word. Libertarians. Liberty. The people who fight for freedom take the same opinion as I do. The same people fighting for your helpless ass are fighting for the right of pedophiles to view child porn. It is about freedom for everybody, you want to take freedom away from some people and keep it for yourself.

You're so up yourself. You are concerned about everyones freedom including mine. Well Im here to fight for the freedom of the children in the pictures

Yes I want to live in a world where everybody is free, even people who you find to be disgusting and horrible. I want to live in a world where humans think with logic and do not become intoxicated by emotion. Logic is always the best way to think, emotional thinking is never the best it is always going to lead to bad results. You have a responsibility to the rest of humanity to try to suppress your emotions the best you can so that your logical abilities have a chance of seeing the light of day. Children in pictures are not hurt be people looking at the pictures, just like the people in other horrible images are not hurt by people looking at them. I know it seems to be that they are to you, but this is because you are suffering from delusions due to the empathy overdose this subject causes in you. I know it is hard to see that delusions are not real, but please try really hard. Ok, pictures on a computer, they are just what 1's and 0's okay? They can be represented with the flip of a coin okay, heads and tails. So if I flip a coin multiple times and record the result, no matter how many times I do this it is not going to harm a child. Does that make sense to you? Do you see that my flipping of a coin has not impact on any children in the world? Even if I flip the coin and by chance after so many flips the recorded sequence is identical to a picture of child pornograhpy? See, if I flip a coin forever and record the result, there is a decent chance that I will end up with some child porn ! But we already established that flipping coins doesn't hurt children right? Do you see now how maybe you are being a bit irrational? Take a deep breath and think about it a little, do you really think that if you flip a coin too many times you could end up harming a random child? Do you really think that if I flip a coin too many times, it will lead to a child to be molested again *in the past*? This mechanism of action just does not exist bro, and I am really sorry that you think it does because it makes me think maybe you have some psychotic mental health problem, and I hope that if you do that you remember to take your medication, because it could really help with your scary thoughts. I cannot even imagine how scary it must be for you to live in a world where flipping coins has so much power, but just try to get through it bro.

Ever wonder why they segregate you cunts from the rest of the prison population? Hardcore rapists, serial killers, murders and general lowlife gangbangers will fucking stick you like a pig in a heartbeat. What does that tell you??

Lol did you not read that before you said it? Wow hardcore rapists, serial killers, murderers and general lowlife gangbangers will fucking stick me like a pig in a heartbeat. Is that really meant to tell me something? They are fucking hardcore rapists, serial killers, murderers and general lowlife gangbangers you dumb fuck they are all in jail because the stuck somebody like a pig in the first fucking place lol.

You will ALWAYS have to hide under your rock!! Because people like me are going to keep you there.

Dude I doubt you have even been out of the same general area of the UK in your entire fucking life, if I really was worried about delusional fucks such as yourself I would just go to Japan or some other country that has a society that totally agrees with me. Age of consent in Japan is 13, 90% of the population is against making CP illegal and it isn't even illegal to distribute softcore CP. Don't think anyone is gonna stick me like a pig there, especially considering I think 13 is pretty young for age of consent and don't even argue in favor of legalizing the distribution of CP so much as I do the viewing of CP (although I really think distribution isn't a big deal either if it isn't for profit).

Fuck you cunt

blah blah blah fuck you too