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Messages - kmfkewm

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226
I am pretty sure that there is actually no difference between a picture of one thing or of another.

Actually I would like to add on to this. You say that the difference between the picture of the naked vietnamese girl burning from napalm is different from a picture of a naked 15 year old flashing her mirror because people view the vietnamese girl picture as an event but view the naked 15 year old as an object (instead of the event of a 15 year old girl flashing her mirror I suppose). So this really boils down to intent. Do you think it should be illegal for somebody to view the image of the vietnamese girl if they view her as an object for sexual gratification? Because I am sure there are some people out there who would be sexually aroused by that photograph. But I have already proven that you cannot really have intent as your differentiation factor! Because you are okay with the police looking at CP because their intent is to bust pedophiles who look at CP, but you would not be okay with the police molesting children if their intent was to bust child molesters. So you cannot really say that it is the intent of looking at an image, or how a person perceives an image, that causes the act of looking at the image to be bad. In my mind looking at an image is looking at an image and molesting a child is molesting a child, it makes no difference if a person looks at an image with the intent of helping children or if a person molests a child with the intent of helping children. It is the action that matters, not the intent, and I imagine you must agree with this if you agree that the police should not be allowed to molest children to prevent child molestation.

227
You can pull whatever bullshit statistic or study performed by a pedo out your arse as much as you like.

If I see a picture of a cake, I want to eat it. I will go get a cake and eat it
If I see a picture of my naked girlfriend I want to fuck her. I will fuck her(if she wants)

Surely even a dumb fuck like you understand how advertisement companies work? If we didnt look at an object and not go out and buy it there would be no such thing as advertisements.

So fuck off with your "looking at pictures stops pedos bullshit... its getting old.

You are getting cause and effect mixed up. You don't want to fuck your girlfriend because you saw a naked picture of her, you already wanted to fuck her. You don't see a picture of a cake and want to eat a cake, you want to eat something and then decide to eat a cake. Otherwise you would see pictures of babies being raped and want to rape babies. That doesn't happen now does it? This logic is about equal to the logic that homosexuals can be 'cured' of homosexuality by masturbation to hetrosexual pornography. The fact is, pedophiles want to have sex with kids because it is just who they are. Seeing pictures of molested kids doesn't make pedophiles want to molest kids, they already do want to molest kids. The studies I have cited show that when pedophiles have an alternative route to meet their sexual desire without molesting a child, a lot of them will take the alternative route. Given the choice between looking at CP and having sex with a child, a lot of pedophiles will only look at CP for whatever reason (maybe they don't want to risk having sex with a child, maybe they are aware that it is bad for children to have sex with them). If they do not have an alternative outlet, their urges continue to grow and they have a harder time to resist the temptation of having sex with a child.

It is kind of hard to debate with you when every single study I could possibly quote is in your eyes automatically invalidated (and probably funded by pedophiles) due to the fact that it doesn't agree with you.

228
I am pretty sure that there is actually no difference between a picture of one thing or of another.

229
Hey look, here is a famous legal picture (in USA and most of the world anyway) of child abuse, of a naked child, that is far worse than at least most of the jailbait shit people would get sent to prison for. This girl did not consent to have her picture taken nor did she consent to have her village bombed by the United States. So if somebody looks at this and it arouses them should they be put down for having looked at the image? Did their looking at the image cause the girl to be napalmed all over again? Did their demand for pictures of children being abused, which led them to this picture, cause more villages to have bombs dropped on them? Or is the current viewing of this picture independent of the Vietnam war, in that it has no effect on either the war or the girl depicted in the picture?

http://static.ibnlive.in.com/ibnlive/pix/sitepix/06_2012/napalm_vietnam_picture.jpg

Only the most hardcore child pornography depicts events worse than this one, or naked children being subjected to greater abuse than being burned with napalm.

So why is it legal for a sadistic pedophile to jack off to this picture, but illegal if I look at a self produced picture of some 15 year old girl flashing a mirror?

230
You have no fucking idea cunt.

A,B and C are not even close to the reasons MOST people hate cunts like you that view CP.

D. Victims and those close to somebody who has/IS suffering as a result to some abuse as a child WILL HATE everything and anyone that is associated and enjoy PICTURES of someones ABUSE

It is hard for a manic cunt like yourself  to compute this so I suggest you get back under your rock cunt with all your supporters

Sorry but do you happen to have Tourette syndrome? You cannot seem to go very long without saying cunt and it just makes me curious if there has been an outbreak in the UK or something.

In other news, it is not illegal to view pictures of abuse only of child sex abuse. ie: holocaust pictures, general genocide pictures, murders, robberies, police brutality, etc. I already have pretty much proven that the intent of viewing the picture is not what has you upset, or else you would be okay with the police molesting children to stop child abuse (funny as that sounds, you seem to think the police can look at CP to stop child abuse despite thinking that looking at CP is child abuse).

Try to just be open minded man, I think you don't even give any consideration to what I say and just immediately go into rage mode.

231
I hope in future anyone making or watching CP should be given the same sentence when caught, or put you cunts down like a dog  >:(

Don't you realize how counter productive to your ostensible goal that would be? This is the same emotion overdose poisoning that leads people to give money to the blind Indian beggar children in an attempt to help children in India. At face value you are doing something good, and it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but it is people like you who cause parents to blind their children in the first place. This is why too much emotional response is a horrible thing.

232


No way I'm reading all 350 of these posts BUT...

OP clearly doesn't have any kids. If you ever leave the fantasy anarchy world you live in and have children, you'll get it.

Also, for the record, most viewers of jews getting gassed dont plan to get off to the photos. I don't need any research to tell me most CP viewers are getting off. Thats the difference, its intangible but makes all the difference.

So you admit you are the thought police, not the action police. If a Nazi looks at a picture of the holocaust and gets off on it, you think it is bad, but if some normal person looks at it and is disgusted then it is not bad. The intent of the action is what matters to you, not the action. So I am sure you think the FBI should be able to look at CP because their intent is to bust child pornographers. Do you think the FBI should be able to rape a young girl if their goal is to bust child pornographers? What if an FBI agent infiltrates a lower level rung of a production studio, and they want him to rape little girls, and eventually he can move up the ranks of the organization and topple it if he rapes enough little girls to earn their trust. Should he be allowed then to rape little girls as his intention is to topple the pedophile organization? No? But he should be able to look at pictures of CP if his intent is to arrest pedophiles correct? Yes? But I thought that looking at pictures of CP causes horrible damage to the children depicted, I thought that it leads to more children being molested even! So why are you okay with one of these things but not the other? Why are you so logically inconsistent? Are you a retard or are you a liar?

I usually agree with you but, this time, you're just talking wacky!

I get where you're coming from though, I really do. I believe the research may even prove you're right to some degree. However, as I said before, you clearly don't have kids. Once you have kids, shit changes. That happens,  we'll talk. Until then, stick to security and other general anarchy conversations :-)

You never answered my question though, and this applies to mary666 as well: if looking at CP is the same as abusing kids, why are you okay with the police looking at CP to bust pedophiles but not okay with the police molesting kids to bust pedophiles? Is it because you know the police looking at CP obviously doesn't hurt anybody, but the police molesting kids would obviously hurt somebody? Doesn't this mean that looking at CP is not the same as molesting kids? So then what can it be that differentiates looking at pictures from molesting kids? You cannot argue intent because the police would have the same intent distributing CP to bust people who look at CP as they would have in molesting kids to bust people molesting kids. The difference is that looking at CP is a victimless crime. So why are you against people looking at CP then? Well I already gave my summary of possible reasons:

A. You are a bigot and hate pedophiles for no legitimate reason

B. You have been whipped up into pedophile hysteria by the media

C. You profit in some way from the war on CP viewers

D. You are okay with eliminating entire groups of people who do not cause harm to others, in order to eliminate a small section of the targeted group that does cause harm to others

So which one is it? If it is A you are no better than a homophobe, if it is B you have been brainwashed, if it is C you are a slave trader and if it is D then you are a very dangerous person and I wonder which group you are going to target next. Are you going to target men to bust rapists? Are you going to target drug users to bust criminals?

Quote
    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.

233
Mixminion and Mixmaster are not used by enough people to be secure unless you use Tor to connect to them.

234
Security / Re: Alternatives to TOR?
« on: August 31, 2013, 08:37 am »
It is also worth pointing out that Tor sort of came from the government and is still largely funded by the government, and had the original intention of anonymizing government intelligence agents. Tor is still marketed largely toward police and military users, none of their "who uses Tor" examples include "People who struggle against the state", although clearly Tor is largely focused on helping Chinese people access the internet at this point in time. Also Tor developers are mostly quite libertarian indeed, but they don't market their software as for use by anarchists and libertarians. I2P came from anarchists and they advertise it as something that can be used by militants and others who struggle against the state. On the other hand, smart as some of the hobbyist cryptoanarchists are, my general impression is that a lot of them are self taught whereas several of the Tor developers actually have Ph.Ds. Tor is very tied to the university academic culture at this point, I2P is very tied to the cryptoanarchist culture. Personally I think that the academic people tend to know what they are doing more than the cryptoanarchist people. I mean, there can be overlap between these two groups, but I see a distinct group of academic researchers (libertarian as they often are) and a distinct group of cryptoanarchists (who tend to be anarchists first and cryptographers second).

You can also see a difference between them in the terminology that they use. Cryptoanarchist friends tend to call hacking around Tor to obtain an IP address a "side channel" attack, whereas people in the academic community would say "wtf, that is not a side channel attack, that is a proxy bypass attack, side channel attacks only apply to cryptosystems leaking keys via timing and power analysis etc". And a quick search finds several in the I2P community calling these side channel attacks, indeed even Whonix developer is calling them "side channel" attacks. That wouldn't fly in the Tor community, because they actually learned about the term "side channel attack" in one of their cryptography classes.

Cryptoanarchists -> "side channel attacks are attacks that go around a security system rather than directly breaking it"

Academic security community -> (from wikipedia) "In cryptography, a side channel attack is any attack based on information gained from the physical implementation of a cryptosystem, rather than brute force or theoretical weaknesses in the algorithms (compare cryptanalysis). For example, timing information, power consumption, electromagnetic leaks or even sound can provide an extra source of information which can be exploited to break the system."

235
So when I hear people saying "Everytime an image of child abuse is viewed the child is abused all over again" or "if there was not a demand for child porn there would not be a supply of molested children", what I really hear them saying is "We must sacrifice the lives of 10,853 harmless people, who might be sick, or might be socially undesirable and seen as disgusting, or who might just be average normal people who were curious, or might even be normal men who do not pretend that they are not attracted to teenagers, or might even have accidentally downloaded something they should not have, so that we can arrest 2,067 child molesters". Because I think that is what they mean in many cases, or what the people who made the canned slogans they repeat really mean, they just don't want to come out and say it. They don't want to say that they are ruining the lives of 10,853 harmless people who pose no threat to society and who cause harm to nobody. So they need to create the perception of harm where there is no harm, in order to justify the sacrifice of lives. And they do this by coming up with illogical slogans that justify the sacrifice of these lives, they turn these harmless men into child abusers by saying "every time an image of child molestation is viewed the child is molested all over again", they turn these harmless men into the child molesters when they say "if there was not a demand for child porn there would not be a supply of molested children", and they do this so they can justify the sacrifice of innocent lives for the protection of children.

Let me know when the police start molesting children to bust child molesters.

I wonder how many violent criminals we could take off the streets if we arrested all black people. Or how many rapists we could take off the street if we arrested all men. Or how many violent criminals we could take off the streets if we arrested all drug users. We cannot support collateral damage and group punishment even if the act of doing so would save thousands of people from being victimized. Society can be segmented into thousands of different groups and if you eliminate any of those groups or imprison any of those groups you are always going to be able to point to a good result that comes from it. Hell, I wonder how many child molesters were killed at the German death camps by virtue of their being Jewish? We must judge people by their individual actions only, and we must not falsely attribute harm to actions that are harmless, no matter how distasteful we find the harmless actions to be and no matter how much we dislike those who commit the harmless actions. We must not attribute harm to harmless actions so that we can punish the group of people who engage in the harmless actions in order to punish a few people deserving of punishment.

236
and as for the number of children saved, well we can do some rough calculations. Currently the P2P monitoring software is far more sophisticated than it was when the article I quoted from came out, and they actually detect over 40 million people a year *sharing* CP on such networks. So the number of detected people has gone up greatly, and therefore the percentage of those arrested is probably greatly below 1% now, because the increase in their man power and especially forensic processing abilities has not increased at such a rate. But we will use only the old figures from 2005-2008:

Quote
So far, investigators have recorded more than 642,000 "unique serial numbers" that can be traced to the United States and another 650,000 of them that cannot be traced to a particular country, with the number of unique serial numbers rising steadily each month since "widespread capturing" of the details began in October 2005.

So in 2008 they had detected a total of 1,292,000 people sharing CP on P2P networks. At this time they arrested about 1% of these people (today much less than 1%, but the number detected is much higher as well), meaning 12,920 people. Of those 12,920 people arrested, statistically about 2,067 are child molesters (although this includes sex with teenagers who would be legal in say Germany or Japan or Croatia). 

237
I think the real issues people have with others viewing CP can be categorized roughly as follows:

A. They are bigots and hate pedophiles, independently of anything the pedophile does they hate them because of what they are. This is much how some people hate homosexuals, they don't have a real reason to hate them they just hate them because they are different or perceived as disgusting. Now granted a homosexual engaging in consensual sex with somebody of an old enough age is not creating a victim, but then again a pedophile who does not molest a child or contribute to child molestation also does not create a victim. These people want it to be illegal to view CP because they know pedophiles view CP and this is a way to legitimize their senseless hatred, and to legitimize the destroying of innocent mens lives.

B. They have been worked up and manipulated by the fearmongering media, which needs to keep them afraid to keep ratings up. They have been conditioned via the media (especially the tabloids in the UK it seems to me) into equating pedophiles with child molesters. They cannot separate the two concepts in their mind. They think that there are so many child pornographers out there, not realizing that the media calls anyone busted with CP a child pornographer, even if they didn't produce anything. They think that there are so many sexual predators out there just waiting to snatch their children, not realizing that the media calls anyone busted looking at images a sexual predator, even if the busted person never has molested a child and has no intention of doing so. The media manipulates its stories in such a horrible way to make people think that all of these dangerous sex predators are molesting children left and right and taking pictures of it, even though in the vast majority of cases the only crime the person engaged in was looking at a picture. There is no doubt that people have been worked up into a pedophile hysteria, and yes there are predators out there and there are real child pornographers out there, but the threat that people who look at CP actually pose to society is vastly overblown.

C. They have been convinced that people who look at CP cause child molestation and cause those depicted in CP to be abused all over again. This is largely thanks to the police agencies, although with help from the media as well of course. They have all of these canned responses, most of which are merely thought terminating cliches, such as "Every time an image of child abuse is viewed, the child in the image is molested all over again" and "If there was no demand for child porn, no child porn would be produced". These canned responses are the most dangerous thing because unless you actually think about them they might appear to make sense! And it is so easy in a debate about CP for someone to just say one of the canned responses without actually being engaged in thinking about the matter at hand. Why do they even need to think about it?! Every time an image of child abuse is viewed the child is abused all over again, what is there to think about? But it is rather obvious that it is not true that a child is abused all over again when the image of their abuse is viewed, if this actually happened it would mean that we should make it a war crime to look at images of the holocaust. When you move away from the magical voodoo interpretation of this canned response, and rephrase it as "children are caused stress by the continued existence of their CP", I make reference to my previous argument that it is the *possibility* (the fault of the producer) that their image will be viewed that causes these children stress, not the instantiation of their image being viewed (something that the child may very well never even know happened, and which we can technically prevent from them being able to know happened). As far as supply and demand goes, I have already addressed this as well.

So why are the police agencies lying about the damages caused by people who view child pornography? Well, for two reasons. One of the reasons is the same reason they lie about the dangers of people using drugs I think. Money and power. The war on child porn viewers is a multi-billion dollar industry

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9920665-7.html

Quote
WASHINGTON--A prominent Senate Democrat [kmfkewms note: Biden] on Wednesday said federal and local police should use custom software to monitor peer-to-peer networks for illegal activity, and he wants to spend $1 billion in tax dollars to help make that happen.

At an afternoon Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing about child exploitation on the Internet, Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.) said he was under the impression it's "pretty easy to pick out the person engaged in either transmitting or downloading violent scenes of rape, molestation" simply by looking at file names.

and the tools developed in the name of fighting child porn are also used in the name of general censorship and government control.

Now I am not saying that programs like this do not prevent child molestation in some cases. Certainly they do! Probably many thousands of real children have been saved from child molesters because of programs like this. But it is just not worth the collateral damage. For every child molester caught because of a program like this, over 8 people who are not child molesters are sent to prison.

And I do not think those over 8 people did anything wrong, they merely looked at images, as I said before. I don't even doubt that the police and the politicians generally dislike CP (although certainly they also love the budgets and power they get to combat it), but if they are making something a crime and casting it as evil simply to justify such high collateral damage in their pursuit of child molesters, it is sickening! And that is the second reason why I think the police and politicians lie about CP viewing. They need to demonize people who view CP (a group already hated by bigots and idiots) so that they can justify ruining their lives in the pursuit of the actual bad people, the child molesters. Because CP being illegal does lead to children being rescued from child abuse in some instances, certainly. And if CP is legalized and the police cannot raid people who are detected with it, those child molesters could get away for a lot longer. Because if the police raid a random person they know has CP, there is a 16% chance that he is a child molester. But this is not acceptable, because if the police raid a given person they know to be male there is a 5% chance that he is a rapist! Should they then demonize males and be able to arrest them at will? Because if this comes to pass you can expect the rate of adult female rape to drop significantly as well!

238
I'm going to try this again because I'm high and feeling philosophical.

Why does the question of the origin of the photographs not matter concisely? I fully understand your binary analogy, but it is a bit unnecessarily verbose for most people who know rudimentary boolean algebra and set theory.

Because the photograph has no origin. As you apparently already are aware, digital photographs are merely really big numbers. All numbers exist independently of life, they cannot be created or destroyed they just are. There is a number out there that is identical to a picture of an adult who has never been molested being molested as a child. If I start at 1 and keep counting, eventually I am going to say a number that is equal to a child porn file. When a pedophile takes a picture of a child being molested, they are not creating the number they are merely instantiating it. Now it is true that this is by far the easiest way to instantiate the number that is equal to the child pornography file, although it is theoretically possible to arrive at the same number via coin flips and random chance the probability of this happening is extremely low. In the future it might be possible to arrive at the same number via 3D rendering software, and in these cases the probability of the 3D rendering being equal to a CP file that already exists, without using it as a visual reference, will be extremely low as well. But regardless, in either case it is possible.

The origin of the number doesn't matter because the number has no origin, it just is, like all numbers. The origin of the instantiation of the number doesn't matter because all instances of a number are equal. 1 is 1 regardless of if I come to this number via flipping a coin and random chance, or if I come to this number by starting with 2 and subtracting 1. The act of child molestation is bad, I think we can all agree on that. But the photographic result of child molestation is just a number, it is neutral. Looking at the picture produced by a number that was instantiated by the camera of a pedophile molesting a child is no different than looking at the picture produced by a number that was instantiated by random chance. How could it be different, they are equal numbers, clearly equal in the most fundamental sense of the word.

I don't see how people can attribute such powers to a number. I really don't get how people can think looking at a picture of child abuse causes more children to be abused, or causes additional damage to the depicted child. Paying for such images could create a market sure, and I think paying for the images is bad simply because it is essentially paying for children to be molested. When you view an image of child porn, the child was already molested in the past and there is nothing you can do about it. When you pay somebody who produces child porn for their production, you are funding their enterprise. If you express joy at somebody killing someone, of a particular race for example, in the past, I don't think it should be illegal, even if the killing was horrible and should not have taken place. If you pay somebody because they killed somebody of a particular race, you are essentially paying them to kill people of that race, and this should be illegal.

But we cannot say that newspapers should be banned merely because serial killers may kill to get the stories of the killings published in the papers. It is not the responsibility of the readers of a newspaper if a serial killer kills only because people will read the stories about what he did. Even if people read the stories for their entertainment value (and yeah serial killer stories are quite popular and read for entertainment), it is not their fault that the serial killer kills. We cannot put the responsibility for bad things that happen on the people who enjoy the information created due to the bad things happening, even in cases where the bad things only happened so information relating to them could be produced. Look at the medical information learned from the holocaust, some of the information learned from this horrible tragedy is still used by the medical community today, and it is way controversial as well

Quote
Many scholars are now discovering in reputable medical literature multiple references to Nazi experiments, or republished works of former SS doctors. These studies and references frequently bear no disclaimer as to how the data was obtained. Several scientists who have sought to use the Nazi research have stirred soul-searching about the social responsibility and potential abuses of science. These incidents prompt a number of questions for the scientific community. Is it ever appropriate to use data as morally repugnant as that which was extracted from victims of Nazism? If so, under what circumstances?

...

 This paper addresses the serious ethical problems of using tainted data from experiments on patients who were murdered and tortured by the Nazis in the name of "research." In particular this paper will address: the scientific validity of the experiments; the medical competence of the experimenters; the social utility in using the experimental data; case studies of proposed uses of the Nazi scientific data; the policy consideration involved when scientists use immorally obtained data; the condition and guidelines as to how and when the data is to be used; and the issue from the victims' perspective.

This project was undertaken with the utmost caution. The reader should be aware that the moral climate in the Jewish community is unforgiving to those who find any redeeming merit from the Nazi horrors. Anyone who dares suggest the historical lessons which can be learned from the Holocaust, or from the victims' suffering, risks being labeled a heretic or a sensationalist bent on distorting history for personal gain. Many in the community seriously fear that insights might replace condemnation of the Nazi evil.2

and again I do not see what the controversy is. Simply because the instantiation of this data had a horrible origin is no reason to censor people from the data, or to not make use of the valuable data. In the case of child porn even I would say that it is valuable information in that some studies have shown if pedophiles have access to it they are at a lower risk of molesting children. So in these cases the acts utilized to instantiate the data are beyond a doubt horrible, but the information produced is morally neutral. Now in the case of child abuse images I can see only one potentially good argument and it is that the children depicted feel stress caused by people viewing the images. And although this appears to be a good argument at surface value, it really is not. Because the children cannot tell when people on the internet are viewing their images. There are even technical solutions that can make it impossible for anyone to tell that someone is viewing the images. But even if the child literally has no chance of ever determining if someone views their image or not, they are still going to feel the same exact stress knowing that somebody might view their image. That is always going to be there for them, once images are put onto the internet there is always a chance that they will surface up at some place or somebody will obtain a copy of them. So the act of a person viewing an image of CP has no real effect on the child depicted, the prolonged stress of the child is because somebody put their image on the internet in the first place. I do not believe for a second that if some random person on Tor goes to a CP site and downloads an image of CP that they have any effect what-so-ever on the depicted child. I also do not believe for a second that their act of downloading an image, which caused a log file to gain an extra line or two on a CP server, is going to translate into more children being molested. Even if a hundred thousand anonymous people download a CP image I do not think that this is going to cause more children to be molested. People simply do not molest children because somebody decided to look at freely available CP on some hidden website. And if you think they do, then why are you against the idea of CP distributed via PIR? Because in these cases we can actually hide the fact that anybody is even downloading any CP to begin with! How can a demand that cannot be known translate into anything?

But no matter how many times I point out that there are technical solutions for hiding the demand of CP, people still keep saying that demand turns into supply, which is a dubious claim by itself. But why can they not think of some new argument by now, I have already explained that we can allow pedophiles to view CP without them contributing to any demand that can be determined. So I do not think anybody really thinks that the problem is that demand leads to supply, because even when I address this (theoretical) issue with a (real) technical system, they continue to be against it. Some of them say that the child is abused each time the image is viewed, but I have already given my reasoning as to why the actual viewing of the image does not harm the child: it is the potential for somebody to view the image that causes prolonged harm to the child, a potential that will always exist after an image is published to the internet or otherwise distributed from the producer. Once I have addressed the demand<->supply argument and the revictimization argument, people pretty much have nothing else to say that could be seen as legitimate. Some will say that it should be illegal merely because the images are so disgusting and are images of abuse, but these same people do not want to outlaw images of the holocaust or other war crimes. They say that it is the intent that matters, that when somebody looks at images of the holocaust they are not getting pleasure from it but when somebody looks at images of CP they are getting pleasure from the suffering that happened to others in the past. But this argument is clearly false, they must care about more than intent: they are fine with the police looking at images of child abuse because their intent is to bust the other people looking at the images for pleasure, but they would not be okay with the police molesting children to catch the people molesting children for pleasure! At a basic level they understand that there is a huge difference between looking at images of CP (something they allow the police to do as their intent is "good") and molesting children (something they would never allow the police to do even if their intent is good!). But even though they must realize there is a massive enormous difference they still like to equate the two. 

239
More evidence that I am normal, from the scientists and researchers the angry mob would just love to burn at the stake: 

http://opd.state.wi.us/htm/ATPracGuides/Training/ProgMaterials/Ch980/Heb.pdf

what do you know most men have the same arousal pattern to young teenagers as they do to adults, who would have guessed, other than any normal person with a penis lol

Quote
   In a subsequent study, Freund confirmed the normalcy of sexual arousal to
adolescents. His subjects were 48 young Czech soldiers, all presumed to be ‘‘normal’’
and heterosexual in orientation. He showed the men pictures of children (ages 4–10
years old), adolescents (ages 12–16), and adults (ages 17–36). As expected, most of the
heterosexual men were sexually aroused by photos of both adult and adolescent
females. They were not aroused by pictures of males of any age, and were aroused at an
intermediate level by pictures of children (Freund & Costell, 1970).
   This unsurprising tendency of normal heterosexual men to be sexually aroused by
adolescents was confirmed by other researchers. Like Freund, a group of researchers in
Canada was attempting to perfect physiological tools for measuring sexual arousal.
These researchers found that their instruments could distinguish between the arousal
patterns of child molesters and a control group exposed to slides of female children
(ages 5–11), but both groups showed similar arousal patterns to slides of pubescent girls
(ages 12–15) (Quinsey, Steinman, Bergerson, & Holmes, 1975).

The difference between all men and predator IS a normal man will see a teenage girl for what she really is. Emotionally immature, vulnerable. A normal man may be aroused read may be, but that is it, he doesnt seek out CP. pics of abused or non consensual content or even consensual pictures of emotionally, vulnerable children for their pleasure.
Why? Because a normal man will see a CP pic for what it is. A child that has been taken advantage of. a child in pain, a child that will have to carry the emotional scars for the rest of their lives. They wont see a pic of a child to satisfy a sick urge. They will be repulsed, sickened.

Am I aroused by 14 year old girls? Maybe once or twice I have thought a young girl is attractive,but then an overwhelming urge fills me to protect that child. to kill predators.

I highly doubt that if a normal man looks at a picture of some 14 year old girl flashing her damn mirror that they are going to be sickened and repulsed by it. It just seems incredibly unlikely. Furthermore, if they look at such pictures or not, it has absolutely zero effect on the pictured teenager. None at all, nada, absolutely no effect. To think otherwise is to think that photographs have a magical property that has never been demonstrated, never been observed, never been explained. Please show me links to the research showing the magical properties of photographs and how viewing them can cause effects to happen to those depicted in them. These is no such research, it isn't real, it isn't even worthy of thinking about because it is so disconnected from reality as to be absolutely absurd!

A normal man *will* be aroused, read *will*, man there have been fucking studies done it isn't a matter of debate it is a matter of hooking random selections of men up to arousal reading equipment and noticing that they have the same exact level of arousal to young teenagers as they do to adults. It isn't a matter of debate at this point, studies have been done, science has been carried out, we have an indisputable conclusion, normal men have the same level of sexual attraction to young teenagers as they do to those in their twenties and thirties! It isn't even an unexpected result

Quote
As expected, most of the
heterosexual men were sexually aroused by photos of both adult and adolescent
females.

It would be mind blowing if the average male wasn't attracted to adolescents! And you think a 14 or 15 year old is so vulnerable but not a 16 year old they are fine. Or not an 18 year old, they are fine. It is just nonsense, some arbitrary number that a bunch of religious wack-a-doos and feminists came up with in the late 19th century based on absolutely no science or jack diddly-shit. And since their global campaign to raise the age of consent to this number, people have been slowly brainwashed in the process, and we can see the result of this brainwashing quite clearly in this thread. Men deny that they are attracted to teenagers under the age of 18, despite the fact that some 14 year olds and some 18 year olds look to be exactly the same age, even to fucking forensic development specialists! We have men lying about their attraction to teenagers but the sexual arousal studies are not lying. And big surprise at that for most of human history it has been acceptable to be attracted to young teenagers and even to have sex with them and marry them! Only after the late 19th century did attitudes on this matter start to shift, and they shifted because of the goals of religious and feminist organizations. The amount of logical fallacies coming from those who are trying to argue with me is just insane, we have people saying that it should be legal to look at pictures that it should be illegal to look at, people saying all kinds of insane shit. A lot of people in this thread seem to think that the global age of consent is already 18 and that it is illegal to view CP in the entire world! All of this is the hallmark of massive and intense indoctrination, and it sucks that you are too far gone to even realize the truth.

Also maybe once or twice you have thought a young girl is attractive haha dude cut the bullshit. You are not fooling me, I have read the research I have read the reasoning behind why men are attracted to young teenagers, you are not fooling anybody. For one you cannot even reliably tell a 14/15 year old girl from an 18 year old girl by looking at her, she could be an older looking 14 year old or a younger looking 18 year old. For two, you are hard wired to find girls of this age to be attractive, if you have only found one or two girls that age to be attractive it must be because you have only seen one or two girls that age. For three, you are crazy if you think that 14 or especially 15 year old girls are just so weak and vulnerable to predators coming and taking advantage of them, but 18 year old girls man they sure have their shit together. Your opinion of young teenage girls appears to be that they are fucking retards and barely different from young children. Your opinion of photographs has no connection with reality what-so-ever and sounds like something that should get you sent to the insane asylum.


No way I'm reading all 350 of these posts BUT...

OP clearly doesn't have any kids. If you ever leave the fantasy anarchy world you live in and have children, you'll get it.

Also, for the record, most viewers of jews getting gassed dont plan to get off to the photos. I don't need any research to tell me most CP viewers are getting off. Thats the difference, its intangible but makes all the difference.

So you admit you are the thought police, not the action police. If a Nazi looks at a picture of the holocaust and gets off on it, you think it is bad, but if some normal person looks at it and is disgusted then it is not bad. The intent of the action is what matters to you, not the action. So I am sure you think the FBI should be able to look at CP because their intent is to bust child pornographers. Do you think the FBI should be able to rape a young girl if their goal is to bust child pornographers? What if an FBI agent infiltrates a lower level rung of a production studio, and they want him to rape little girls, and eventually he can move up the ranks of the organization and topple it if he rapes enough little girls to earn their trust. Should he be allowed then to rape little girls as his intention is to topple the pedophile organization? No? But he should be able to look at pictures of CP if his intent is to arrest pedophiles correct? Yes? But I thought that looking at pictures of CP causes horrible damage to the children depicted, I thought that it leads to more children being molested even! So why are you okay with one of these things but not the other? Why are you so logically inconsistent? Are you a retard or are you a liar?

240
Security / Re: Alternatives to TOR?
« on: August 30, 2013, 11:10 pm »
So is there anything to rival SR/BMR/Atlantis on these networks?

I doubt it.

I haven't looked much at i2p at all.. how would you summarize its subculture?   Poked around a few eepsites, but never really got a feel for what the i2p userbase consisted of.

If Tor is academic then I2P is hobbyist. The Tor devs are very into research papers etc, the I2P devs are more into intuition. This is good and bad. Tor is slow to change because any tiny change needs to have a research paper written on it and simulations run first. I2P is really fast to change and add features, because if something sounds good and correct at face value, they will probably implement it. I think I2P culture of users consists largely of cryptoanarchists, where as Tor user culture is extremely diverse because of its popularity. The average I2P user probably knows significantly more about technical things than the average Tor user, but the average Tor developer probably knows significantly more about technical things than the average I2P developer.

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