10g very pure P2NP was dissolved into 100ml 30% HCl and added over 30minute period using a dropping funnel to a solution of 32g of Fe in 200ml 30% HCl.
The foamy solution was stirred vigorously and refluxed for 90 minutes. The solution was dumped into 2000ml of dH2O, extracted with 3x 100ml Et2O, the collected extracts washed twice with 150ml 25% NaOH solution and twice with brine, the extracts dried over 25g of silica beads left standing for 30 minutes drying, the silica filtered off and the extracts thrown in the rotavap the Et2O off, the remaining P2P was purified by fractional distillation.
Yield: 75%
100g of 2-bromo-4-methylpropiophenone was added to a stirring soultion 200ml toluene, over a 15 minute period 55g Methylamine in 315ml water was added maintaining the temperature below 20C using external ice bath cooling. After addition of the methyl amine the mixture was stirred for 24h at 0C to avoid pyrazine contamination. The solution was dumped into 1250ml ice cold dH2O, the toluene layer separated, and the remaining aqueous solution extracted with 2x 150ml toluene.
The combined extracts were washed with 3x 200ml brine, dried over anhydrous MgSO4 and gassed with HCl to salt out the hydrochloride salt of 4-methylmethcathinone, the 4-MMC was recrystallised from boiling acetone and upon cooling overnight and filtered, it was rinsed with 500ml ice cold anhydrous acetone.
Yield: 45%
Methylamine preparation: 70g NaOH in 180ml dH2O was added to 120g Methylamine.HCl in 135ml cold dH2O
150 litres of MDP2P is added to 400 litres of N-methylformamide, the mixture was left stirring for 60 minutes and in the meantime 75 litres of 85% formic acid was added. The solution was heated to 190C (water and formic acid will distill off at 140C), no vacuum distillation was required, after the receiver flask presents ammonia smell the heating was stopped and the solution left to cool.
350 litres of H2O were added to remove excess N-methylformamide, separate 160 litres of the oil layer and extract the residual oil with 2x 30 litres dichloromethane or Et2O, distill the solvent out at 60C and 200hg.
Add 180 litres of the oil to 100 litres of methanol, 250 litres 30% HCl in 550 litres H2O was added mixed and temperature raised to 65C to distill the MeOH over, after all of the MeOH was distilled off the solution was heated to 95C and left there for 3 hours. The solution was cooled, washed with 40 litres dichloromethane and decanted, the water layer was basified with 100 kilos of NaOH in 100 litres H2O, do NOT exceed the 40C when adding the base, at pH 10.3 100 litres of MDMA freebase will separate, this was extracted with 3x 30 litres dichloromethane, the extracts dried over MgSO4.
The dichloromethane was distilled off. The pure MDMA base was dissolved into 300 litres dry acetone and gassed with HCl. Recrystallization was done from acetonitrile/IPA.
Yield: 116 kilo MDMA.HCl
React SOCl2 or SO2Cl2 with codeine, purify with 2 moles of 30% HCl, add sodium carbonate and quickly add 50ml Et2O to extract the blobby precitipation. Re-extract the aqueous layer twice with 50ml Et2O, wash the extracts twice with absolute cold EtOH, and remove solvent under vacuum to obtain a-chlorocodide.
5g of a-chlorocodide dissolved in 100 ml of water was brought into solution by addition of normal hydrochloric acid and hydrogenated in the presence of 1g Pd/C 10% and 3.5g NaBH4 for 10h using a balloon to keep low pressure.
After there was added 50ml 32% ammonia and extracted with 2x 20ml Et2O, 1.5g of hemihydrated dihydrodesoxycodeine-d was obtained.
A solution of 1.5 g. of dihydrodesoxycodeine-d hemihydrate in 4.5ml 57% HI was boiled vigorously for serveral minutes at 117C, and left to cool.
15ml water was added slowly with scratching until crystals no longer separated. The mixture was warmed nearly to boiling, whereby the crystals became pure white and more granular. Yield: 1.73 g dihydrodesoxymorphine-d hydriodide (desomorphine)
20ml pyridine was added to a 200ml beaker, 25ml 30% HCl was added and the solution heated to 190C to remove water. The product is cooled quickly in an external ice bath to form a waxy solid which is pyridine.HCl, this was stored in a sealed container in the freezer to avoid decomposition and moisture.
3.5g Pyridine.HCl was heated in a DRY 50ml RB flask and any condensation in the flask was wiped off, 1.5g of codeine freebase is added, the flask was stoppered and duck taped and heated until the mixture starts to fume, heating is continued until a red/orange colour develops in the solution which became viscous after 5-15minutes, the contents of the flask are poured into a separating funnel and 100ml dH2O was added, 25% NaOH solution was added until pH 13 and solution should become clear brown over time, this was extracted with 2x 20ml DCM, the combined extracts were saved to recover codeine later, the aqueous layer was adjusted to pH 9 using 30% HCl and quickly filtered in a buchner funnel with double filter papers to remove unwanted side-products. The filtered solution was poured into a clean beaker with a split piece of wooden clothe peg, the pH is carefully diluted to 8.5 using 30% HCl, the product was allowed to precipitate for 30 minutes, and filtered off under vacuum.
The beige to dark brown coloured morphine may be used to make heroin.
10g of morphine.HCl or freebase was added to 30g acetic anhydride, this was refluxed at 85C for 6 hours, after the solution cooled, 90ml dH2O was added, (5-10ml chloroform or dichloromethane may be added also), the solution stirred for 30 minutes and left standing for 20 minutes, the chloroform/dcm layer should be coloured red from the greasy impurities, that layer was separated in a sep funnel and the aqueous (upper) layer saved. 5 grams of activated charcoal was added to the aqueous layer and allowed to absorb more impurities, filter and repeat until solution is clear.
22g of sodium carbonate dissolved in 30ml hot water are added to the solution until heroin freebase precipitates, the white powdery heroin base was dried, purification was obtained by dissolving it in twice it's mass of boiling absolute ethanol, filtering the solution into a pre warmed filter and flask, removing traces of sodium carbonate that remained in the base.
The ethanol solution was evaporated to obtain pretty fucking pure heroin base.
10g of heroin base was added to 65ml absolute ethanol, 70ml dry Et2O, 30% HCl was added drop wise until pH was 7. As soon as it's done converting, 30ml dry EtOH was added and 35ml Et2O with it. As soon the crystals precipitate, 20ml Et2O is added at once, the solution stirred, after one hour the solution should be close to solid, the heroin was filtered, the rocks were allowed to dry by air.
Yield: pretty fucking pure heroin.HCl
Method 1:
1 gram of cocaine.HCl was thrown into 20ml dH2O, 1 gram of NaOH was added and the pH was checked to be 13+, the freebase was extracted using 3x 5ml Et2O and the extracts dried over silica/molecular sieve/MgSO4. The dried combined extracts were evaporated.
Yield: 0.85g freebase cocaine (if it was pure)
Method 2:
1 gram of cocaine.HCl was mixed with 0.33g sodium bicarbonate, there was added dH2O drop wise until it became a fluid like paste, this was heated until boiling and kept boiling for 2 minutes.
Yield: 0.85g freebase cocaine (if it was pure)
Method 3:
1 gram of cocaine.HCl was added into a 10ml solution of household ammonia, this was heated during 2 minutes, upon cooling crack rocks formed, filtered and air dried.
Yield: 0.85g crack cocaine (if it was pure)
Extracting the pills:
You should have a coffee grinder for this, this write up is for 60mg sudafed tabs. Grind the pills to dust. 500 pills x 60mg = 30g pseudo ephedrine.
Next get a beaker and throw the grinded pills in, add ice cold distilled water to it, swirl a bit and filter, repeat until the water has no more bitter taste of the ephedrine to it.
Next add Methanol to the extracts, some white crap (methyl microcrystallinecellulose should come out) filter that and save the extracts, now evaporate slowly the solution using a fan or something.
when it evaporated scrape all the pseudofed together and throw it in a beaker again, rinse with ice cold anhydrous acetone and filter, now you have pretty pure pseudo ephedrine.HCl, should be around 28-30grams if you used 500 tablets of 60mg each.
Prepare your push-pull set up, duct tape all the stoppers tight, and the hoses aswell to make sure there are NO leaks. Use one of this set ups:
http://wyxwerboi3awzy23.onion/src/1362586402888.png
Okay now let's get into business..
30g of pseudo ephedrine.HCl, 45g of elemental I2 and 21g of Red Phosphorus were added in the reaction flask, the reaction may start or may not start on it's own, make sure to shake it all good together so its mixed good. Personally I like to kick the reaction myself in so I add just enough water to make it a very damp tick mud, but not wet.
Once the reaction kicks in (patience my friends) it will liquify (reaction generates H2O), start thick mud, let it thin out it self.
Still if it doesn't start trying applying some heat not adding more water, excess water will kill your reaction.
P.S: if using recycled Red phosphorus add a cap full of 35% H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide).
Okay so the reaction started, it may be impossible to see the flask inside from all the HI gas, if you can't see the reactants swirl or shake until you can see what's happening, you are looking for a nice bubbling.
Thick smoke = bad - it means fire in your flask = bye-bye reaction.
Hard shaking will slow/stop the reaction allowing you to get control over it again. If the contents rise up too high and tend to blow out the flask, swirl it lightly to calm it down.
------ALWAYS KEEP A WET TOWEL NEXT TO YOU-------
Reaction too hot? never touch the phosphorus, it is like molotovcocktail and will stick to whatever and burn and barely stops burning, even with towel to avoid disaster, get the flask away and keep the wet towel over it.
Phosphorous fire not confined to a flask
- Phosphorus is hell to extinguish once it catches fire. DON'T TOUCH! Phosphorous will stick to whatever it contacts and burn.
- The amount of smoke is unfathomable, and will draw attention..
- Toss your wet towel over it, this will cut off its oxygen, and buy you time, maybe a minute. (don't worry, you will be moving at the speed of light,)
- Wet dirt is the best retardant, water may just blow it around if a lot of RP is on fire. But water will put it out if you flood it
- The worst thing to do is to run away, leaving it out of control, probably will result in a fire, injuries, and your arrest.
- Most fire extinguishers are not very effective against a phosphorous fire!
Okay so back to the chemistry..
Stage one:
The thick mixture liquifies and the bubbles should be small, you may notice some of the gas being pushed into the P/P device, the volume of the solution will increase. As time goes by HI gas to the P/P will decrease but the bubbling still continues, continue heat to maintain an easy bubbling reaction, heat only maintains the reaction going it does not create the bubbles.
Good signs: White or light coloured fog/mist is fine.
BAD: thick yellow or red smoke overreaction, maybe phosphorus fire in the flask, shake and shake as explained before to get reaction under control.
Stage two:
Increase the heat slowly to 95C, the flask atmosphere changes to yellow/green/red, the small bubbles change into large holes like moon craters, the mixture becomes more turbulent losing the small bubbles, all the reactants will rise and at this point you should take the heat off and swirl to avoid explosion, large amounts of heat and gas are produced, keep swirling, the P/P will be pushing and bubbling big time, at the final stage a massive pull may be noted, after the turbulence stops the reaction is complete, if the reagents are no longer sticking to the flask you are done, if not sure, heat up to small boil, nothing happens then you're done.
Great so now you have your chill almost finished!
Add 100ml dH2O (if used 30g of pseudo) after the reaction is cooled, shake it and get all mixed into solution, now boil this for 10 minutes on the hot plate.
Get a filter ready, pre soak it with water to avoid chill loss.
Dump in your chill you just brewed, filter until all Red Phosphorus is out of the water/chili solution.
DON'T THROW AWAY THE RED PHOSPHORUS, SAVE IT YOU CAN REUSE IT.
The solution should be clear yellow to colourless, now it's time to release your amine.
Add 25% NaOH solution until pH 13/14, smell your beaker, it should smell like rotten fish/ammonia.
This is what you want, that's the beautiful smell of your chill freebase, additional add 50ml brine to the solution, will avoid emulsion making.
Cool the solution in the fridge until it is cold, now extract the chill with 3x 75ml Et2O, wash the extracts with brine, 25% NaOH solution and twice with dH2O separating after each wash.
Now dry your Et2O extracts with anhydrous MgSO4, let it stand for 4 hours.
It's time to salt your chili, you can either use a HCl generator and gas it (drip H2SO4 into kitchen salt hose it through drying tube, additional at a trap at the end for any suck backs) to see beautiful methamphetamine HCl precipitating.
Other method is evaporating the ether to about 60ml left, add 30ml dH20 to it in a flash with stopper, drip HCl and keep constant eye on the pH of the bottom layer (the one that has your meth hcl dissolved) you want it to be between 7 and 8. Shake it really good after each 7-10 drops of HCl you add so the ether and the hcl mix together and the meth can salt.
Once you have achieved the desired pH, get the bottom (water with meth) layer and evaporate it slowly, you should have your desired product after it evaporates.
Now you can optionally wash your product using ice cold anhydrous acetone and/or recrystallise.
This is done from either absolute Ethanol, methanol or IPA, the trick is to do use as less solvent as possible to dissolve all the meth when the alcohol is boiling, then to cool down as slowly as possible to let big crystals grow, eventually you can evaporate it all.
Yield: 50 to 85% depending on a lot of factors.
Pour 500ml of household bleach into a 2000ml beaker and add enough ice cubes to it to cool, measure out 10ml of acetone and mix it in with the bleach and swirl it around gently for 10 seconds to make sure it mixes. This reaction is exothermic (releases heat) so keep an eye on the temperature, add ice cubes if needed to cool the solution. Leave it for 30 minutes for the reaction to complete, sign of the reaction completed is white powderish bubbles (looks like an emulsion) at the bottom, pour off the water/bleach layer once all ice has melted, now separate the chloroform with a separating funnel, wash/distill the chloroform and dry over MgSO4.
Store in a brown glass bottle, add some EtOH/MeOH to prevent decomposition if storing for a longer time (decomposes into phosgene gas, nasty!) Keep it cool.
A 500ml RB flask was equipped with a stir bar and 5ml dH2O was poured in, 1g 10% Pd/C was added and swirled till it soaked up the water, 100ml EtOH was added to the mixture followed by the addition of 10g 2-nitro-1-(2,4,5,trimethoxyphenyl)-propane and 20.5g potassium formate in 50ml dH2O, the flask was heated to 55C in a water bath, once the bicarbonate precipitated and made the mixture hard to stir a pipette with 14.5ml GAA was ready and dripping 1ml at a time into the solution until the bicarbonate dissolved, this procedure was repeated until reaction time was over (1h). The palladium was filtered and washed to reuse, the solution was colourless with 12.7 pH, GAA was added until pH 7 and then the EtOH was removed by vacuum. The remaining solution was made basic using 25% NaOH and extracted with 2x 50ml toluene, the extracts dried over silica and the solvent removed under vacuum. 100ml EtOAc was added to the yellowish oil and dry IPA/HCl was added to pH 7. The crystals were dried and the yield was 10.1g (98.5%)
250g of reagent grade NH4Cl was added to 500g of formaline, the solution was brought up slowly to 104-106C and kept there refluxing for 4 hours, the temperature was monitored the entire time and if it exceeded 106C it was cooled using an external ice bath, after reflux was completed the solution was evaporated to +- 315ml, after cooling to room temperature, the residue NH4Cl was filtered out. The solution was again evaporated, this time to about 175ml this was left to cool and the methylamine.HCl was filtered off. Again was the solution concentrated to about 45ml and stirred occasionally to prevent cake forming upon cooling, the methyl amine was washed with CHCl3 and vacuum dried as much as possible. Recrystallisation was done from absolute EtOH.
8g 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene in 50ml THF with 50ml MeOH and is stirred vigorously while adding 1.9g NaBH4 over a 30 minute period.
After 15 minutes of stirring 6.5g 10% Pd/C in 100ml MeOH was added to prevent fire if the catalyst was added dry. 4g of NaBH4 was added over an additional 1h and left refluxing for 3 hours more.
The NaBH4 was neutralised with 5ml AcOH 20ml 30% HCl and 50ml dH2O and the solution turned red.
The Pd/C was filtered and washed with MeOH and dH2O, the MeOH and THF are removed under vacuum, the residual washed with methylene chloride and
made basic with 25% NaOH solution, the freebase extracted with methylene chloride, the solvent removed under vacuum and distilled (optional).
The base was dissolved in 3x it's volume of IPA, the sulphate was crashed dripping 1:5 H2SO4/IPA mixture until pH 7 and washed with IPA/anhydrous acetone.
Yield: 70%
22g 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene was dissolved in 250ml GAA and added 4.5g 10% Pd/C (20% water wet). The solution was stirred and brought up and kept at 100C, 38g of NH4HCO2 was added in 3 portions of +- 13g each, after the addition it was left refluxing for 30 minutes and left to cool, 100ml CH2Cl2 was added and the palladium catalyst filtered off (which was washed and reused). 1000ml dH2O was added to the remaining solution and the CH2Cl2 layer separated, the remaining aqueous layer reextracted with 2x 50ml CH2Cl2, the extracts washed with 25% NaOH solution and a final brine wash, the organic extracts were dried with MgSO4 and removed under vacuum. The resulting yellow freebase oil was dissolved in 3-4x it's volume of dry IPA and salted out using a 1:5 H2SO4/IPA solution drop wise until pH 7. The sulphate was washed with IPA and anhydrous acetone to yield 14g amphetamine sulphate.
273g of sodium bicarbonate was dissolved in 1100ml dH2O and brought to a gentle boil, sodium bicarbonate will release CO2 making turning the bicarbonate into a slightly stronger base (sodium carbonate) after the solution was clear again and no more CO2 was developed, 250ml of GBL was added slowly in portions to avoid vulcano, after each addition the solution will turn white, wait until solution is clear for next portion to add, after all GBL was added the solution was left refluxing for 1.5h to ensure all GBL has been converted to GHB, the solution was regulary checked with a pH paper until pH is 7 (anything between 6-8 is fine) if the pH was too low add more sodium bicarbonate, if it was too high add more GBL until desired pH was obtained, solution was concentrated to 50% (about 750ml) yield: 410g NaGHB.
50g of fine powdered MHRB was added to a cooled solution of 50g NaOH in 750ml dH2O, stirred for 1h and the bark filtered out. The residual was extracted with 4x 40ml naphta, extracts washed with brine, concentrated to 1/4th the volume and slowly cooled to room temperature, then put in fridge overnight. The naphta filtered off and the DMT washed with 5% NH3 solution or water. Dry slowly by air, DMT melts at low temperature
Process can be repeated about 3x
Note: The following is purely from my experience, I'd defer to Ruthenium to verify that I'm not talking out of my ass here.
750ml seems somewhat excessive and I can only see it making the entire operation more difficult for people using a clandestine setup. Also, I prefer A/B rather than STB(with a de-fat wash after extracting from bark)
I'd do 3 washes of 250ml dH20 with HCL added to ph 3.5, boiling for 30 minutes each time.
Boil down the extract to an easily manageable amount, then 3 x 25ml naptha washes to de-fat
Basify with NaOH to ph11-12ish.
Extract with 3 x 25ml naptha. Then its up to you whether to A/B again to get translucent crystals or just evap/freeze precip.
I've found a way to make it much more efficient/easier is to get a piece of cheesecloth and tie the bark in the cloth like a teabag.
Scaling this up is very easy as well. The water tanks you take camping can be used, however you will have to forgo heating. The aquarium stones used to bubble air through ponds can be used as a substitute.
Be careful when doing the naptha defat. If you emulsify the sol'n too much it can be a bitch to separate. Brine helps but does not always resolve the issue. I've had a few extractions become unsalvagable due to excessive shaking during a pull.
Also cocaine hcl to freebase should be useful to alot of people.
Ruthenium, can I trouble you with a query for a moment? I've sometimes read that "elemental iodine" is I3, not I2, and that I3 won't serve as a proper catalyst to regenerate aqueous HI.
Is that just some gibberish someone made up, or is there truth to it? I notice you call I2 elemental iodine, which made me curious.
OMG, you're right... I can't believe I was remembering it backwards. That's kind of humiliating. "Hey, what's the difference, it all goes into the same pot, right?!"
/facepalm
Professor clink, Can you show some sources for chemicals?
Such as match strike pads contain red phosphorous , etc..
Just noticed this thread thanks to Motek. ;)
Ruth, i think its great of you to offer this advice to us all, thank you.
Will +1 you again when i can. :)
Remember while RP can be reclaimed and re-used in later synth's, there will invariably be a mechanical loss, as a result, I don't suggest trying to get RP from strikepads. It's stupidly tedious to do in the first place, and sourcing it is not that difficult on the road.
I've been in contact with vendor UKbluecheese who has a 1kg listing of RP up, he said he will put up smaller listings in a few weeks.
Thanks for the notes Ruthenium, as you can tell it's hugely appreciated by the community. While I may step on a certain persons toes asking, do you have any notes regarding an MDA synth? I've seen a lot of info on the clearnet and to be honest, it doesn't seem that tricky but it does seem pretty dangerous for a novice.
Thanks for the info. I missed those RP listings. . . Nice.
I seen the p2p precursor for sale on the road though .. Almost all the ingredients are here then.
Your skills are in big demand.
No I mean this:
WARNING CLEARNET: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/brightstar.mdma.html
Yeah, from what I understand, P2P is much more widely used to make Methamphetamine whereas P2NP to make amphetamine. Given that Ephedrine rxn /w RedP/Iodine is done in water, and the P2P > Methamphetamine rxn is done in Methanol, it's fairly confusing as to why people still use the P2P method over the redp+iodine.(Ephedrine shortages can be heavily alleviated by SR havn't they?)Thanks for the info. I missed those RP listings. . . Nice.
I seen the p2p precursor for sale on the road though .. Almost all the ingredients are here then.
Your skills are in big demand.
You can go from 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene directly to amphetamine using Al/Hg reduction. No need to form the ketone first.
No I mean this:
WARNING CLEARNET: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/brightstar.mdma.html
Huh, so the Bright Star method is still the gold standard then? That seems like a low yield to me, assuming that 160 grams of safrole is the equivalent of 145.5ml (going by safrole's density of 1.1g/mol). The anticipated yield there is only 15 grams...
If 145.5ml will give you 15 grams of MDMA, then 1500ml would yield about 154.5 grams. That's about 8 times less than what drdeepwood/ron paul says is possible using his method (1500ml of sassafras oil will yield you 1000g of MDMA!). Am I missing something here or is my math just screwed up?
Strike's excellent post read: "With high vacuum at 100-140°C ~18g safrole came over. At 166°C came over ~125g ketone." When she did this method...
Keep the ketone. Smell it. Look at it. Look at how it refracts light. For the brave: taste it. Note all of these 'properties' and remember - After you have judged its properties, put it in the freezer. Note: it won't freeze. It will become a very viscous liquid.
If you are having difficulty sourcing p-benzoquinone, go to a photography store and ask for hydroquinone, then hydroquinone + H202(Hydrogen peroxide) = p-benzoquinone(Can you verify this Ruthenium? I'm not 100% sure on it)
Also, do you happen to have any information regarding black or plastic cocaine? I saw it mentioned in another thread as being able to get past sniffer dogs, but searching didn't come up with any results re: synths.
"If 145.5ml will give you 15 grams of MDMA, then 1500ml would yield about 154.5 grams".... no bro, I'm fairly sure you've got those numbers mistaken ....
" For those who think they are better than the instructions as written - be prepared to screw it up at least 4 times before success (or you finally figure out I'm right). Be prepared to invest ~$800. Be prepared to read and learn. It's also a good idea when investing in chemicals to buy 5x what is needed for a synthesis - this way you can repeat it without buying it again"
"you'd still need Palladium chloride, which is fucking expensive and difficult to source"...
Actually there are quite a few folks making high quality MDxx in the states and elsewhere, but it's unlikely you would see it unless you were 'a friend'
OK,Quote"If 145.5ml will give you 15 grams of MDMA, then 1500ml would yield about 154.5 grams".... no bro, I'm fairly sure you've got those numbers mistaken ....
If you read it more closely, you'll see he (BS) begins with 160gms of sassafras oil, from which he distills his safrole (again he ends up with 160g ...hmmm? go figure!) which is then oxidized via a benzo Wacker, from which he obtains about 100gms of 'ketone'
In the last step, he reduces 40mls of 'ketone' to get ~15gms of mdma .... which is about a 45% yeild, which is not very good, all things considered ... idk but that seems surprisingly low for Brightstars synth .... which to quote him . . . .Quote" For those who think they are better than the instructions as written - be prepared to screw it up at least 4 times before success (or you finally figure out I'm right). Be prepared to invest ~$800. Be prepared to read and learn. It's also a good idea when investing in chemicals to buy 5x what is needed for a synthesis - this way you can repeat it without buying it again"
I'll state that again ......."be prepared to screw it up at least 4 times before success" :D
This is what I was trying to get across in the DDW thread .... whereas RP "guarantees success" ..... 'MAD success', in the 'KILO amounts', 'success' .... which IS BULLSHIT!
I hope people can SEE for themselves, that IF one of the "legends" of "home MDMA synthesis" says "you WILL FUCK IT UP at LEAST 4 times!" .... BEFORE you succeed.....
I have to ask, "where does DDW/RP get off, 'telling' folks "they WILL succeed, first time around!!",
BECOZ "his guides are SO easy to follow?" Or becoz they "will have kilos of BIG shards they can sell, AND make "heaps of cash, in no time" .... which IS patently FALSE!
Please anyone thinking of buying his bullshit....DONT get yourself ripped off/blown up, chasing a pipe dream of RP's .... it just ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!
Now, back to the chemistry, I believe it's fairly easy to get those yeilds up to 60% and even higher, but everything over that, is mainly a result of good lab skills and quality chemicals (LabReagent grade) which most people cant get their hands on!
BUT...it's not going to happen the first OR second times around, in fact I'd expect most people to end up with some unworkable sludge of varying color, depending on where in the process you fuck it up!
and then fractalglobal saysQuote"you'd still need Palladium chloride, which is fucking expensive and difficult to source"...
hmmm maybe, but this IS one compound which isn't too hard to make, and Palladium coins/metal is easily come by, as is chlorine.... ;) 8)
There are usually MANY ways, in organic chemistry to synthesize what you want .... it's really just a matter of "how much" you want it :D
But be warned, this 'hobby' is addictive for some people, and once you've had a taste, it's very hard to forget, the 'magic of chemistry' at least for motek, it is :P
Good luck everyone with your endeavours, and IF you wish to know something, and are sincere, shoot me a pm, and we'll take it from there ;)
Peace Love and Sweet Dreams ;D
motek
Chloroform synthesis added. :D
How about DMT Freebase from MHRB?
How about DMT Freebase from MHRB?
Hmm... how to say this....
I mean no offense, it's just my opinion... and I'm really saying this with the utmost respect:
While I think it's wonderful we have some more people here schooled in the hard science of chemistry, I dislike this thread and find it a bit unethical. Those that are properly educated need no help in finding the information contained herein. Those that need this info spoon-fed to them here, clearly have no business messing around with said spoon-fed info. Weren't you guys bitching at DDW about how unsafe it was for him selling info to anyone willing to buy it?.. yet you then turn around and hand it out for free. While I applaud your philanthropy, providing free information, I find it a bit misguided. While you're saving people money (up front at least) perhaps, you're also opening the door for more people to get hurt...
Do you think it's safe for nuclear physicists/engineers to post up DIY H-bomb "recipes" on Craigslist? (yeah, yeah... it's just an example, no need to get technical) Or for chemists to post "How to Poison Your Spouse" step by step guides?.. for anyone to find. I personally don't think so. If people want to find the info, they can put in the effort/hard work to learn it themselves... no need to make it easy. Just like in a martial art, you don't learn to rip a guys throat out on day one, you have to earn that knowledge... only after you have the respect for said knowledge, should you posses it imo. Like I have no right to be performing brain surgery on someone... sure, I can watch youtube how-to videos about it... but still, I should not be employed as a brain surgeon (maybe with fake credentials I scored off SR)... would you want me as your brain surgeon? Probably not.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any conversation or discussion about reactions... I'm just saying, listing off recipes is kinda dangerous. Yes, I know they are listed elsewhere... but really, this doesn't help.
Feel free to flame and (-) Karma me... I just would hate to hear about idiot kids burning their family's down while trying a (this thread) SR synth. (How philanthropic would you feel then?)
And by no way is this an endorsement of DDW selling the info either... so no, I'm not him. And no, I'm not anti-freedom of information either...
I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way, I just want ya to think of the possible negative consequences. Shit... like I doubt but a handful of people reading this thread actually know what MSDS 's are without googling.
I'll stfu now.
hey this is opiod about 80x more potent than morphine. i think it's very interesting because it could be sold in 10 mg raw powder like fentanyl . here's its name : 6-Methylenedihydrodesoxymorphine (6-MDDM) . Please write how to synthesise it very interesting and promising.
I avoid making an encyclopedia of chemicals and where to obtain, I want to make sure people read into shit first before they do the reaction and start understanding the mechanism before they even pulled out their flasks.
Sorry, not my purpose, maybe if I ever publish a book.
Great thread ruthenium thank-you for sharing your chemistry notes with us, I find it a very interesting read, +1 keep up the good work :)
Sorry, not my purpose, maybe if I ever publish a book.
ok will you write synthesis of chemical i asked above ? Thanks :p
No I meant drugs encyclopedia from a to z for example
Amphetamine
MDMA
Methamphetamine
Just like that.
QuoteNo I meant drugs encyclopedia from a to z for example
Amphetamine
MDMA
Methamphetamine
Just like that.
Duuuude! you were already told! Plus, I doubt you can even basically understand the "recipes" already here, coz, if you are asking these questions, you have a LOT of reading to DO,
and are many YEARS away from synthesizing ANYTHING let alone drugs! :o
I think one of the 'reasons' behind Ru starting this topic, was to show what was easily available online, and even when they are, being able to 'complete' ANY drug synth is FAR from 'easy'
and also so folks would 'become aware' there's NO need to PAY a charlatan like RP to get them ....
And IF you were to go to the chemistry fora mentioned ... you WOULD be TOLD that "spoonfeeding" just aint gonna happen, so you best UTFSE!
There's a saying I reckon fits this ... that goes something like " A fool can ask more questions in a minute, than a wise man could answer in a lifetime"
I agree, Ru did good 8) and I've given her several +1's already :D
EXPERIMENTAL:
Helional to amide
A solution of 19.2g 2-methyl-3-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)propanal was mixed with 13.9g elemental I2 in 60 mL of 28% NH3 with 10ml THF and was stirred at room temperature for 1h. The dark solution became colorless at the end of reaction. 6ml 35% H2O2 was then added dropwise. The reaction mixture was stirred for 2-4 h and extracted with CH2Cl2. The extracts was washed with brine, dried over Na2SO4 and concentrated in vacuum. The residue was rinsed with hexane/EtOAc (1:3) to give a pure amide product. Yield: 98%
hey this is opiod about 80x more potent than morphine. i think it's very interesting because it could be sold in 10 mg raw powder like fentanyl . here's its name : 6-Methylenedihydrodesoxymorphine (6-MDDM) . Please write how to synthesise it very interesting and promising.
P.S. My nick is G R D R
p.s.s. it would be very nioce if all chemicals would be written top to bottom from a to z would be very nice encyclopedia like work of yours. :) good job so far very interesting even though i don't know alot about chemistry.
EXPERIMENTAL:
Helional to amide
A solution of 19.2g 2-methyl-3-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)propanal was mixed with 13.9g elemental I2 in 60 mL of 28% NH3 with 10ml THF and was stirred at room temperature for 1h. The dark solution became colorless at the end of reaction. 6ml 35% H2O2 was then added dropwise. The reaction mixture was stirred for 2-4 h and extracted with CH2Cl2. The extracts was washed with brine, dried over Na2SO4 and concentrated in vacuum. The residue was rinsed with hexane/EtOAc (1:3) to give a pure amide product. Yield: 98%
This method was tested and produced only polymerized crap..
Method used was:
Oxidize helional to the carboxylic acid. Next add ethyl chloroformate to form the mixed anhydride. Add sodium azide for the azide, heat for the isocyanate. From there a Curtius to mda.
For mdma, add benzaldehyde to form the imine, use a dean stark to remove the water. Once imini formation is complete, add dimethylsulfate (careful, substance carcinogenic) then hydrolyze to get mdma
KMnO4? Maybe if you want piperonal, cleave the whole tail of, but this will also produce the benzoic acid.
Any refs for the KMnO4?
How about DMT Freebase from MHRB?
50g of fine powdered MHRB was added to a cooled solution of 50g NaOH in 750ml dH2O, stirred for 1h and the bark filtered out. The residual was extracted with 4x 40ml naphta, extracts washed with brine, concentrated to 1/4th the volume and slowly cooled to room temperature, then put in fridge overnight.
Process can be repeated about 3x
How about DMT Freebase from MHRB?
50g of fine powdered MHRB was added to a cooled solution of 50g NaOH in 750ml dH2O, stirred for 1h and the bark filtered out. The residual was extracted with 4x 40ml naphta, extracts washed with brine, concentrated to 1/4th the volume and slowly cooled to room temperature, then put in fridge overnight.
Process can be repeated about 3x
Note: The following is purely from my experience, I'd defer to Ruthenium to verify that I'm not talking out of my ass here.
750ml seems somewhat excessive and I can only see it making the entire operation more difficult for people using a clandestine setup. Also, I prefer A/B rather than STB(with a de-fat wash after extracting from bark)
I'd do 3 washes of 250ml dH20 with HCL added to ph 3.5, boiling for 30 minutes each time.
Boil down the extract to an easily manageable amount, then 3 x 25ml naptha washes to de-fat
Basify with NaOH to ph11-12ish.
Extract with 3 x 25ml naptha. Then its up to you whether to A/B again to get translucent crystals or just evap/freeze precip.
I've found a way to make it much more efficient/easier is to get a piece of cheesecloth and tie the bark in the cloth like a teabag.
Scaling this up is very easy as well. The water tanks you take camping can be used, however you will have to forgo heating. The aquarium stones used to bubble air through ponds can be used as a substitute.
Be careful when doing the naptha defat. If you emulsify the sol'n too much it can be a bitch to separate. Brine helps but does not always resolve the issue. I've had a few extractions become unsalvagable due to excessive shaking during a pull.
KMnO4? Maybe if you want piperonal, cleave the whole tail of, but this will also produce the benzoic acid.
Any refs for the KMnO4?
chem draw: http://wyxwerboi3awzy23.onion/src/1363578225237.png
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo01352a006
Resolution and Rearrangement of α-Methylhydrocinnamic Acid and of Its 3,4-Dimethoxy Derivative
ANTHONY W. SCHRECKER
J. Org. Chem., 1957, 22 (1), pp 33–35
DOI: 10.1021/jo01352a006
Publication Date: January 1957
Will try do the reaction asap
KMnO4? Maybe if you want piperonal, cleave the whole tail of, but this will also produce the benzoic acid.
Any refs for the KMnO4?
chem draw: http://wyxwerboi3awzy23.onion/src/1363578225237.png
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo01352a006
Resolution and Rearrangement of α-Methylhydrocinnamic Acid and of Its 3,4-Dimethoxy Derivative
ANTHONY W. SCHRECKER
J. Org. Chem., 1957, 22 (1), pp 33–35
DOI: 10.1021/jo01352a006
Publication Date: January 1957
Will try do the reaction asap
Why not use oxone in DMF? Yields 80+% consistent and high purity product. Can be bought OTC as chlorine free pool shock.
@Ruthenium: Only had access to hcl and I didn't realise it'd be worthwhile to use acetic. Cheers!
Got any cool ways of going P2NP > Amphetamine with fairly easy to source precursors? Mercuric Cloride isn't easy to get around here and I wanted to avoid ordering off SR for anything I could possibly get elsewhere.
KMnO4? Maybe if you want piperonal, cleave the whole tail of, but this will also produce the benzoic acid.
Any refs for the KMnO4?
chem draw: http://wyxwerboi3awzy23.onion/src/1363578225237.png
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo01352a006
Resolution and Rearrangement of α-Methylhydrocinnamic Acid and of Its 3,4-Dimethoxy Derivative
ANTHONY W. SCHRECKER
J. Org. Chem., 1957, 22 (1), pp 33–35
DOI: 10.1021/jo01352a006
Publication Date: January 1957
Will try do the reaction asap
Why not use oxone in DMF? Yields 80+% consistent and high purity product. Can be bought OTC as chlorine free pool shock.
Oxone isn't for sale here.
@Ruthenium: Only had access to hcl and I didn't realise it'd be worthwhile to use acetic. Cheers!
Got any cool ways of going P2NP > Amphetamine with fairly easy to source precursors? Mercuric Cloride isn't easy to get around here and I wanted to avoid ordering off SR for anything I could possibly get elsewhere.
mhm... I have some HgCl2 if you want, but amalgam sucks, fucking mess of AlOH..
LiAlH4 is another option, but I wouldn't fuck with that unless you're very careful.
Also for the home experimenter I put up a DIY MDxx listing: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/7a9c837fb1
if you were referring to LiAlH4 it's not the same as Li/NH3.@Ruthenium: Only had access to hcl and I didn't realise it'd be worthwhile to use acetic. Cheers!
Got any cool ways of going P2NP > Amphetamine with fairly easy to source precursors? Mercuric Cloride isn't easy to get around here and I wanted to avoid ordering off SR for anything I could possibly get elsewhere.
mhm... I have some HgCl2 if you want, but amalgam sucks, fucking mess of AlOH..
LiAlH4 is another option, but I wouldn't fuck with that unless you're very careful.
Also for the home experimenter I put up a DIY MDxx listing: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/7a9c837fb1
I've attempted lithium/ammonium meth synth previously(quite a few years ago), although unsuccessfully. So I have at least some experience handling it. I'll have a look through the archives for a writeup.
Also, that MDxx listing is an absolutely awesome idea! Really wish I still lived in EU :(
From what I understand its a bit more difficult than Hg + Cl.
Fair enough, still keen on the HgCl2 if you are offering though!
This is more of a pet project than anything else, but do you know if its possible to produce large crystals from Amphetamine sulfate? I havn't tried recrystalizing yet, but if its possible to make large(50mg+) amphetamine sulphate crystals, I'll almost certainly put aside a gram or so and freeze precip for a few weeks just for bragging rights :P
If this isn't possible with amphetamine sulfate, is it doable by converting to a different salt? Amphetamine sulfate > Amphetamine phosphate should be fairly easy I think(convert to freebase using NaOH, add Phosphoric acid dropwise until amph stops coming out of sol'n?)
I've never heard of amphetamine acetate but could it be a possible candidate for crystal amph?
Edit: Any thoughts on custom packaging for the MDxx synthesis listing? "My first meth lab" would be a hit imo.
Amphetamine fumarate? ;)dry acetone + fumaric acid + amphetamine free base in dry acetone should do
Fair enough, still keen on the HgCl2 if you are offering though!
This is more of a pet project than anything else, but do you know if its possible to produce large crystals from Amphetamine sulfate? I havn't tried recrystalizing yet, but if its possible to make large(50mg+) amphetamine sulphate crystals, I'll almost certainly put aside a gram or so and freeze precip for a few weeks just for bragging rights :P
If this isn't possible with amphetamine sulfate, is it doable by converting to a different salt? Amphetamine sulfate > Amphetamine phosphate should be fairly easy I think(convert to freebase using NaOH, add Phosphoric acid dropwise until amph stops coming out of sol'n?)
I've never heard of amphetamine acetate but could it be a possible candidate for crystal amph?
Edit: Any thoughts on custom packaging for the MDxx synthesis listing? "My first meth lab" would be a hit imo.
+1 dr. ruthenium 8)
It's time to salt your chili, you can either use a HCl generator and gas it (drip H2SO4 into kitchen salt hose it through drying tube, additional at a trap at the end for any suck backs) to see beautiful methamphetamine HCl precipitating.
Other method is evaporating the ether to about 60ml left, add 30ml dH20 to it in a flash with stopper, drip HCl and keep constant eye on the pH of the bottom layer (the one that has your meth hcl dissolved) you want it to be between 7 and 8. Shake it really good after each 7-10 drops of HCl you add so the ether and the hcl mix together and the meth can salt.
Once you have achieved the desired pH, get the bottom (water with meth) layer and evaporate it slowly, you should have your desired product after it evaporates.
Now you can optionally wash your product using ice cold anhydrous acetone and/or recrystallise.
This is done from either absolute Ethanol, methanol or IPA, the trick is to do use as less solvent as possible to dissolve all the meth when the alcohol is boiling, then to cool down as slowly as possible to let big crystals grow, eventually you can evaporate it all.
"React SOCl2 or SO2Cl2 with codeine, purify with 2 moles of 30% HCl, add sodium carbonate and quickly add 50ml Et2O to extract the blobby precitipation. Re-extract the aqueous layer twice with 50ml Et2O, wash the extracts twice with absolute cold EtOH, and remove solvent under vacuum to obtain a-chlorocodide.
5g of a-chlorocodide dissolved in 100 ml of water was brought into solution by addition of normal hydrochloric acid and hydrogenated in the presence of 1g Pd/C 10% and 3.5g NaBH4 for 10h using a balloon to keep low pressure.
After there was added 50ml 32% ammonia and extracted with 2x 20ml Et2O, 1.5g of hemihydrated dihydrodesoxycodeine-d was obtained.
A solution of 1.5 g. of dihydrodesoxycodeine-d hemihydrate in 4.5ml 57% HI was boiled vigorously for serveral minutes at 117C, and left to cool.
15ml water was added slowly with scratching until crystals no longer separated. The mixture was warmed nearly to boiling, whereby the crystals became pure white and more granular. Yield: 1.73 g dihydrodesoxymorphine-d hydriodide (desomorphine)"
is this what you'll be making and selling ? what purity does the final crystals have ? will you be selling uncut ?
"React SOCl2 or SO2Cl2 with codeine, purify with 2 moles of 30% HCl, add sodium carbonate and quickly add 50ml Et2O to extract the blobby precitipation. Re-extract the aqueous layer twice with 50ml Et2O, wash the extracts twice with absolute cold EtOH, and remove solvent under vacuum to obtain a-chlorocodide.
5g of a-chlorocodide dissolved in 100 ml of water was brought into solution by addition of normal hydrochloric acid and hydrogenated in the presence of 1g Pd/C 10% and 3.5g NaBH4 for 10h using a balloon to keep low pressure.
After there was added 50ml 32% ammonia and extracted with 2x 20ml Et2O, 1.5g of hemihydrated dihydrodesoxycodeine-d was obtained.
A solution of 1.5 g. of dihydrodesoxycodeine-d hemihydrate in 4.5ml 57% HI was boiled vigorously for serveral minutes at 117C, and left to cool.
15ml water was added slowly with scratching until crystals no longer separated. The mixture was warmed nearly to boiling, whereby the crystals became pure white and more granular. Yield: 1.73 g dihydrodesoxymorphine-d hydriodide (desomorphine)"
is this what you'll be making and selling ? what purity does the final crystals have ? will you be selling uncut ?
purity will be 97%> USP
yes and yes
Tried the ammonia method for making crack.Worked great ..But here are some observations i thought i'd add....
Whatever glass vessel your gonna make it in ...I used a little glass vial.And heated in a pot of water on hot plate...
1 The product should be added 1st before the ammonia ,if you want 1 solid rock.As the reaction appears to happen fast
even before heating,
2 Even when using the proper ammonia..Unscented just ammonia and water avaialble through ace hardware.Even after a wash of the product..It still had a ammonia taste...Perhaps a long soak in water is needed...Will try next time..
3 This is by far the easiest and most efficient method as it required no actual flame to make ...Just the taste has to be fixed...
I often insufflate dl-amphetamine(est. 85-90% purity, boymaster/cc's product) if I forget to redose orally at the correct time, however there is a pretty painful burn associated with doing so. Acetone wash reduces it somewhat, however do you happen to know of any other ways to lessen the burn?
EDITED UPPER POST BECAUSE I WAS TOO HIGH WHEN I WROTE IT NOW IT'S SIMPLE .From a book about the synthesis of various drugs (including barbs). This is the entry for Pentobarbital, one of the good barbs. The entry for barbital is much more detailed, this one is shorter because it's the 10th barb or so in the book.
WE NEED BARBITURIATES AND METHAQUALONE.
Please write synthesis "for the books". I don't know why they don't make them anymore. probably larger pharmacutical companies are pushing them out - good medicines like Aamytal and Seconal also Qualuudes. Kids these days are ignorant and don't even realise what they're missing.
Pentobarbitone. (Called Nembutal or Pentobarbital.)It doesn't seem that easy to make 1-methyl butyl ethyl malonic ester, even though the above step seems easy enough, it would only need to be adapted to a smaller scale.
26.7 g of clean metallic sodium are dissolved in 400 g of anhydrous (dry) ethanol. To this, a solution of 100 g of 1-methyl butyl ethyl malonic ester and 37.2 g of dry urea is added. The mixture is heated for 4 to 6 hours in an autoclave, or refluxed for 20 to 40 hours. The alcohol is then removed by distillation. The residue is dissolved in water and this aqueous solution is acidified with hydrochloric acid. The precipitated product is filtered, washed with cold water, and recrystallized from boiling water.
Yield: depends on your ability to exclude H2O from the beginning of the reaction, mp: 127-130°.
Subscribed!Dito.
It doesn't seem that easy to make 1-methyl butyl ethyl malonic ester, even though the above step seems easy enough, it would only need to be adapted to a smaller scale.EDITED UPPER POST BECAUSE I WAS TOO HIGH WHEN I WROTE IT NOW IT'S SIMPLE .From a book about the synthesis of various drugs (including barbs). This is the entry for Pentobarbital, one of the good barbs. The entry for barbital is much more detailed, this one is shorter because it's the 10th barb or so in the book.
WE NEED BARBITURIATES AND METHAQUALONE.
Please write synthesis "for the books". I don't know why they don't make them anymore. probably larger pharmacutical companies are pushing them out - good medicines like Aamytal and Seconal also Qualuudes. Kids these days are ignorant and don't even realise what they're missing.
[quote author =some book]
Pentobarbitone. (Called Nembutal or Pentobarbital.)
26.7 g of clean metallic sodium are dissolved in 400 g of anhydrous (dry) ethanol. To this, a solution of 100 g of 1-methyl butyl ethyl malonic ester and 37.2 g of dry urea is added. The mixture is heated for 4 to 6 hours in an autoclave, or refluxed for 20 to 40 hours. The alcohol is then removed by distillation. The residue is dissolved in water and this aqueous solution is acidified with hydrochloric acid. The precipitated product is filtered, washed with cold water, and recrystallized from boiling water.
Yield: depends on your ability to exclude H2O from the beginning of the reaction, mp: 127-130°.
I avoid making an encyclopedia of chemicals and where to obtain, I want to make sure people read into shit first before they do the reaction and start understanding the mechanism before they even pulled out their flasks.
The yield of the mephedrone synthesis has been increased greatly
A 5 gallon bucket can produce 10g's of lysergic acid every two weeks, even accounting for losses in extraction and chemical manipulation. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to do this, not much harder than brewing beer! You think you read that blurb online about growing ergot, chick pea meal soup, etc, etc. That's bullshit and misinformation. Did you know that if you use the correct strain of ergot this can be NON-TOXIC! Gangrene is produced by the vasco-constricting ergot-peptides produced in the species claviceps purpurea, or standard ergot. A different ergot strain, claviceps paspali produces non-hazardous ergot alkaloids,
The yield of the mephedrone synthesis has been increased greatly
That's what she's doing ;DThe yield of the mephedrone synthesis has been increased greatly
should sell it on the road, since no one on the road actually sells real 4mmc.
you'd control the entire market
I have a rather interesting question.
If cellulose is unable to be properly broken down by the human body, then why do we use a cellulose based "paper" for administration of LSD?
It seems that this practice would result in getting less LSD from the paper than was originally applied to it.
Can someone explain this to me? Am I correct in my assumptions? If not then how/why does it work?
I have a rather interesting question.
If cellulose is unable to be properly broken down by the human body, then why do we use a cellulose based "paper" for administration of LSD?
It seems that this practice would result in getting less LSD from the paper than was originally applied to it.
Can someone explain this to me? Am I correct in my assumptions? If not then how/why does it work?
in a general sense, the acid would tend to coat the cellulose fibres and when put in the mouth the enzymes in your saliva would be sufficient to 'loosen' its attachment and into the saliva.
Nt being able to break down cellulose completely doesn;t mean we cant get to what's 'connected' to that cellulse, which is often sugars and starches IIRC :D
I have a rather interesting question.
If cellulose is unable to be properly broken down by the human body, then why do we use a cellulose based "paper" for administration of LSD?
It seems that this practice would result in getting less LSD from the paper than was originally applied to it.
Can someone explain this to me? Am I correct in my assumptions? If not then how/why does it work?
in a general sense, the acid would tend to coat the cellulose fibres and when put in the mouth the enzymes in your saliva would be sufficient to 'loosen' its attachment and into the saliva.
Nt being able to break down cellulose completely doesn;t mean we cant get to what's 'connected' to that cellulse, which is often sugars and starches IIRC :D
also most medicines and supplements contain hydroxy propyl methylcellulose or microcrystalline cellulose as a binder
so your thoughts are wrong, i don't know theory behind this exactly but i know it wont interfere with the absorption of the API (drug) into the blood
DDW's MDA guide has been posted at evespiary.Indeed, I reposted it here