Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: mrxempire on February 20, 2013, 03:17 am
-
Nothing to worry about here, just speculation...
Is it possible for Law enforcement to set up fake seller accounts in an attempt to catch big time buyers? Back in sept/oct when I first found out about Silk road, I was looking around at all the different vendors and what they had to sell, when I found someone trying to sell a very large amount of heroin. I might be mistaken, but the U.S dollar value of what he was trying to sell was about 50,000 dollars. Thats a LOT of heroin. I'm not a heroin user, and have no interest in buying any, but the sheer amount and price made me wonder if it was a real seller, or just LE trying to catch a big time H dealer. I don't believe this listing is up anymore, and the vendor account that was selling it ( The Boss) no longer has any active listings. If I was LE, I would probably name my fake seller account something like "the boss" to sound like a big, mean, scary drug dealer to the rest of SR. What are your thoughts on this? I may be wrong on the price, but it was definately somewhere in the tens of thousands of dollars. I would not risk a 50k order being shipped in the mail either. Even if it couldn't be traced back to you, I feel that LE would definately come knocking on the door of the address that such a large order was being sent to no matter what if it was confiscated by customs.
-
I would avoid buying bulk of most drugs on SR, possibly weed being an exception. Also possibly exceptions for people who are highly vouched for. Anyone can be a vendor here. Dealers buy from bulk vendors. If the police want to bust dealers, it makes sense that they would set up as bulk vendors. I think it is not unreasonable to assume that they may even set up as vendors to bust smaller time buyers, although perhaps there is less concern for this. It doesn't look like they are doing this so far anyway, considering the low number of busts we are aware of regarding buyers, which is pretty much in line with what we would expect from interceptions. Of course if the police intercept $50,000 worth of heroin they are going to raid the address it was shipped to, that much is obvious. That said there have been successful and legitimate bulk online dealers, and people have even shipped millions of dollars worth of drugs through the mail (although not online vendors afaik, although there have been plenty of hundred thousand dollar + shipments). There are private forums for bulk deals, where vendors get in contact with big suppliers. These forums are invitation only and you cannot vend on them unless you have been vouched for by a lot of people who have multi-year reputations and have just as many people willing to vouch for them. That is the environment for bulk dealing imo, SR is perfect for dealing to end consumers and small time dealers though.
-
im pretty sure you just described entrapment, only other way i could see that ahppening is if a vendor that wasnt LE was working directly with LE on a sting of some sort
-
im pretty sure you just described entrapment, only other way i could see that ahppening is if a vendor that wasnt LE was working directly with LE on a sting of some sort
It's not entrapment. Entrapment happens when LE entices you to do something illegal that you might not otherwise have done. So, posing as a bulk vendor on an anonymous market that you have to jump through all of these hoops to make purchases on, is not entrapment.
I'm not a heroin user, and have no interest in buying any, but the sheer amount and price made me wonder if it was a real seller, or just LE trying to catch a big time H dealer.
And, who knows, right? But, it's smart to see it and move on. And, there might be some precedent. There's a longstanding rumor among gun enthusiasts that the ATF purchases an ad in Shotgun News every month advertising a drop in sear that converts an AR-15 into an M-16. The possession of that sear would send you to prison. So (and, keep in mind, this is rumor intel) the idea is that the ad is appealing to they guy looking to convert one or more rifles in a hurry. If that's true, then an analogue to that might be the DEA offering to sell large orders of h or coke on SR.
-
I found someone trying to sell a very large amount of heroin. I might be mistaken, but the U.S dollar value of what he was trying to sell was about 50,000 dollars. Thats a LOT of heroin.
This might be the guy: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/0e55379b32
Check out the vendor name.
-
If a vendor sold to you and it turned out to be the feds that would be entrapment. Surely a vendor how has been vending for a while now with a lot of feedback cannot be LE, there's too much evidence
against the feds. Imagine how that would look in court for LE.
-
If a vendor sold to you and it turned out to be the feds that would be entrapment. Surely a vendor how has been vending for a while now with a lot of feedback cannot be LE, there's too much evidence
against the feds. Imagine how that would look in court for LE
No, it would not be entrapment. It would be entrapment if said vendor sent you an email out of the blue and said, "Hey, download Tor, get on Silk Road, and here's how you get bitcoins. If you buy a joint from me, I'll give you one for free."
It would absolutely not be entrapment to set up shop in an online market full of drug vendors and post an ad claiming to sell drugs. Do you see the difference? LE has to entice you to do something that you probably wouldn't have done if LE hadn't convinced you to in order to entrap you.
In court, it would look like a successful sting operation.
-
I dont see the problem here, anyone who buys bulk from a vendor who hasnt been on here a while and built up alot or rep is asking for it. The cops might be able to slither by selling small quantities to build a little cred but the judge aint going to look to kindly on them for selling 100keys of coke just to build up enough cred to lure bulk buyers. Contrary to popular belief there IS a limit on how much illegal shit cops can get away with before they themselves become the target of the law.
Cop:Your honor, we successfully collected evidence showing the defendant ordering large quantities of coke from us.
Judge: I see, and how did you go about doing that
Cop: Well, we setup a vendor account on the silk road and sold more coke than anyone else!
right.
-
but the judge aint going to look to kindly on them for selling 100keys of coke just to build up enough cred to lure bulk buyers.
Well, it's not a matter of a judge. LE wouldn't sell real drugs just to build cred. Either way, your point is great.
-
Almost the same as a question a few days ago , except when I wrote this , I was just not called a full fool. Only just;;
Are bitcoins illegal?
L.E. as a honeypot...LOL !!!
Is there a different law for L.E. so they can possess illegal drugs?
Just an other stupid question!
To sell drugs is a real big crime!
To buy a little is not.
L.E. can not commit a big crime just to catch you for a little crime.
And when the have confiscated drugs they have to destroy those drugs once it has done it use as evidence.
At least that's the law where i live. The police can not even follow a shipment to find out who the big guys are.
Cause they have lost track of such shipments in the past.
So no if the police can prevent to let the drugs enter the market, they have to act, before those drugs do enter the market again.
But maybe the police is the biggest supplier of narcotics in the states, it wouldn't surprise me at all !
They sell even weapons to Iranians who keep Americans hostage etc !
-
In some countries in Europe the police are not allowed to do reverse stings. In the USA they are allowed to and they are fairly common at that.
DEA agents have full exception from controlled substance act. They are allowed to purchase, use and sell all controlled substances, in an undercover capacity.
-
I just can't see it being worth the risk for someone to spend over 50k on seller with almost no reputation. If your that much into the heroin game that your trying to buy pounds and kilos, then you probably have your own real life connects that can get that shit for you
-
I found someone trying to sell a very large amount of heroin. I might be mistaken, but the U.S dollar value of what he was trying to sell was about 50,000 dollars. Thats a LOT of heroin.
This might be the guy: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/0e55379b32
Check out the vendor name.
Ya, that dude's had some shady listings for a while. The few feedback that are there seem shady too. Hell, he even recommends a drop spot instead of mail. I definitely think LE has accounts but what they use them for I couldn't say. I would guess a bit of everything. I think kmfkewm is more on track about how bulk transactions take place. I love SR, but c'mon. You really gonna jump on here and do a six figure deal cause the feedback says it's good? If you do then you deserve what you get. I don't think LE could sell enough dope to gain that rep without getting exposed. Vendors like this are sketchy as fuck. And anyone who buys from them is too. I'm sure there is a place for that but I don't think it's SR
-
There's a longstanding rumor among gun enthusiasts that the ATF purchases an ad in Shotgun News every month advertising a drop in sear that converts an AR-15 into an M-16. The possession of that sear would send you to prison. So (and, keep in mind, this is rumor intel) the idea is that the ad is appealing to they guy looking to convert one or more rifles in a hurry. If that's true, then an analogue to that might be the DEA offering to sell large orders of h or coke on SR.
hypothetically i may or may not have made 40 or 50 of these for myself off the blueprints floating around then. the catch was
u couldn't be in possession of a m-16 or whatever while possessing these little toys. if u had a frame and one of these u were
in possession of a fully automatic post 1968 weapon. illegally! i would think that the dea would be looking to buy and not sell but what the fuck do i know?
-
hypothetically i may or may not have made 40 or 50 of these for myself off the blueprints floating around then. the catch was
u couldn't be in possession of a m-16 or whatever while possessing these little toys. if u had a frame and one of these u were
in possession of a fully automatic post 1968 weapon. illegally! i would think that the dea would be looking to buy and not sell but what the fuck do i know?
A fully automatic sear has a serial number. If you're in possession of one that doesn't have one, you're committing a big-boy felony. And, you can't sell one without Class 3 paperwork. So, if DEA put such an ad in Shotgun News, and some retard sent them a check, well, he's just committed a federal firearms felony.
Edit: I mean ATF, not DEA.
-
What about LE disguised as buyers? There are plenty of smooth surfaces within a package from which to pull prints or gather other evidence like DNA. A careless and/or unsuspecting vendor could fall prey to such a scheme. Could this be a plausible strategy for LE? create acct, place order, wait and collect evidence ? Just being paranoid and thinking out loud...
Maybe this should be a separate thread
Sterling
-
What about LE disguised as buyers? There are plenty of smooth surfaces within a package from which to pull prints or gather other evidence like DNA. A careless and/or unsuspecting vendor could fall prey to such a scheme. Could this be a plausible strategy for LE? create acct, place order, wait and collect evidence ?
This is much more likely, and a good reason to be cautious (not paranoid, but cautious and careful) if you are a vendor. But that's the point of SR, that a vendor can vend anonymously, more so than any other option that a smart purchaser would use.
Speaking smart buyers, who the hell would buy from this guy:
I found someone trying to sell a very large amount of heroin. I might be mistaken, but the U.S dollar value of what he was trying to sell was about 50,000 dollars. Thats a LOT of heroin.
This might be the guy: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/0e55379b32
Check out the vendor name.
First of all, South American heroin? Do they grow a lot of poppies in Columbia? NO! Would you order 65K worth of Afghanistan Cocaine? NO! Second, he has no feedback at all. I would feel hesitant to shoot that much money at my mom, not to mention a faceless, unaccountable, virgin vendor with no customer service skills. This is a Darwin post: whomever falls for it deserves it.
-
First of all, South American heroin? Do they grow a lot of poppies in Columbia?
Yes SA heroin. Yes they grow a ton of poppies in Columbia. Is Columbian heroin sold in North America? You bet.
-
What about LE disguised as buyers? There are plenty of smooth surfaces within a package from which to pull prints or gather other evidence like DNA. A careless and/or unsuspecting vendor could fall prey to such a scheme. Could this be a plausible strategy for LE? create acct, place order, wait and collect evidence ?
You make a fair point. Were I a vendor, I would wear sterile gloves when handling the product and packing material. Once it's sealed, fingerprints aren't an issue. Do you have any idea how many people have touched that thing? And fingerprints are fucking hard to get, anyway. When people think about that stuff, they thing about shows like CSI and NCIS. It ain't that, boys and girls. Not in real life. In every lab in the country, murders come first, and every lab in the country is backed up beyond belief. I once worked a B&E case where I actually did get good prints off a TV set the guy tried to carry out, but decided otherwise. It was the suspect's prints, which was good, because he was convicted for it 6 years before the evidence lab report came back. If we hadn't caught him earlier, the lab report would have been useless, because the statute of limitations would have run out.
But, the DEA is federal, and can probably fast-track whatever they prioritize. So, your speculation has merit. Vendors should be careful. When you handle that (insert product packing material here), take precautions.
-
Well lets see, most of the big name vendor accounts are ran like shit. Like literally terribly. Another thing is the U.S. government wouldn't ship from the netherlands or germany where most huge vendors sell from.
I'd like to think if the DEA was running a vendor account it would be ran tip top and ship from the USA. Which I don't see any accounts like that.
-
In some countries in Europe the police are not allowed to do reverse stings. In the USA they are allowed to and they are fairly common at that.
DEA agents have full exception from controlled substance act. They are allowed to purchase, use and sell all controlled substances, in an undercover capacity.
That is the loophole which allows certain Federal agencies to import drugs. Think of Iran/Contra.....Air America and the Meo....
-
DEA agents have full exception from controlled substance act. They are allowed to purchase, use and sell all controlled substances, in an undercover capacity.
I read a DEA manual a while back that said agents are not allowed to consume drugs. It pointed out that some state agencies allow officers to take drugs if their life is in danger, but the federal government makes no such exception. It even gave tips on how to get out of a situation where they are expected to take drugs. They should make up an excuse like, "I have to take a drug test for a job tomorrow."
I'm not saying that no DEA agents take drugs, maybe some do, but officially, on paper, they aren't allowed to.
Not sure where I found the manual, but it might have been this: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=12280.msg115436#msg115436
Unfortunately, it doesn't exist anymore.
-
That is the loophole which allows certain Federal agencies to import drugs. Think of Iran/Contra.....Air America and the Meo....
Not even close to comparable situations. You really think an Obama administration would be okay about shipping real drugs to (what, dozens? hundreds of?) Americans in the hopes of... of.... of what? What's the end state accomplished by selling drugs on the Road? When we sell weapons to the enemies of our enemies, we hope that the people who take over become our friends (look how well that turned out in Afghanistan). What do we gain when we sell drugs to Americans, and then don't notify law enforcement? The users take the drugs, so they're gone. The practice of shipping illicit items to other people's houses is so common that it's a believable defense (I never received such a package) for many, many homes.
Having said all that, it is a crime to attempt to possess a controlled substance. But, is the DEA strategy really to start up new vendor accounts, prosecute the first 10 or 20 buyers, and hope to hell they shipped to their home address? I doubt it. It's the DEA, not the Mayberry Sheriff's Department. They want the big vendors based in America. If DPR is an American, they want him, or they want him extradited. You don't get to the big fish by arresting the little fish in a setup like the one here. That's why things have gone on as long as they have, and why they will continue to.
Just sayin'...
-
That is the loophole which allows certain Federal agencies to import drugs. Think of Iran/Contra.....Air America and the Meo....
Not even close to comparable situations. You really think an Obama administration would be okay about shipping real drugs to (what, dozens? hundreds of?) Americans in the hopes of... of.... of what? What's the end state accomplished by selling drugs on the Road? When we sell weapons to the enemies of our enemies, we hope that the people who take over become our friends (look how well that turned out in Afghanistan). What do we gain when we sell drugs to Americans, and then don't notify law enforcement? The users take the drugs, so they're gone. The practice of shipping illicit items to other people's houses is so common that it's a believable defense (I never received such a package) for many, many homes.
There have been numerous instances of DEA/Government invovlent in the mass importation/smuggling of narcotics. Information from FOIA request combined with sources serve as confirmation.
-
There have been numerous instances of DEA/Government invovlent in the mass importation/smuggling of narcotics. Information from FOIA request combined with sources serve as confirmation.
Name one where the product went to an anonymous buyer, was shipped through the postal service, and did not terminate in an arrest.
-
There have been numerous instances of DEA/Government invovlent in the mass importation/smuggling of narcotics. Information from FOIA request combined with sources serve as confirmation.
Name one where the product went to an anonymous buyer, was shipped through the postal service, and did not terminate in an arrest.
I wasn't referring to the SR. I was commenting on the point brought up earlier about Federal Agent's being exempt from the CSA. The assertion that I am making is that the US Government is complicit in allowing shipments of narcotics to enter the territory.As you know, the police have a vested interest in the Drug War.;banks make billions, cops confiscate billions, and black projects can be funded federally, not to mention also propping up our currency.
-
That is the loophole which allows certain Federal agencies to import drugs. Think of Iran/Contra.....Air America and the Meo....
Not even close to comparable situations. You really think an Obama administration would be okay about shipping real drugs to (what, dozens? hundreds of?) Americans in the hopes of... of.... of what? What's the end state accomplished by selling drugs on the Road? When we sell weapons to the enemies of our enemies, we hope that the people who take over become our friends (look how well that turned out in Afghanistan). What do we gain when we sell drugs to Americans, and then don't notify law enforcement? The users take the drugs, so they're gone. The practice of shipping illicit items to other people's houses is so common that it's a believable defense (I never received such a package) for many, many homes.
Having said all that, it is a crime to attempt to possess a controlled substance. But, is the DEA strategy really to start up new vendor accounts, prosecute the first 10 or 20 buyers, and hope to hell they shipped to their home address? I doubt it. It's the DEA, not the Mayberry Sheriff's Department. They want the big vendors based in America. If DPR is an American, they want him, or they want him extradited. You don't get to the big fish by arresting the little fish in a setup like the one here. That's why things have gone on as long as they have, and why they will continue to.
Just sayin'...
+1
-
Im no expert, But i can agree with the Former LEO Officer, it certainly is not entrapment. But however if they were allowed to set up a seller account say, And sell minor quantities under say X amount , They could just act like a new seller, most new sellers start with small quantities anyway as nobody will buy bulk from somebody with no rep usually.
But it must be true that they cant let the drugs get back into circulation, If they sell an ounce of H or cocaine then it's gunna get broken down and sold on. So they would have to make an arrest in some way or get the drugs back anyway. So we might start to notice a pattern of , Ohh look, everyone who has bought over an ounce from this guy stopped logging on or just dissapeared. If they did it quick enough then said person would not have time to log into the forums and let people know So we wouldn't know about the bust.
It really is bait, SR is different for small time and big time. If your buying bulk, You need different techniques and methods to somebody buying for personal use. It's like a business you need to take extra precautions and really take a month or two to learn everything properly.
-
It's not illegal for police to make multiple small buys in order to do an investigation. It is common these days for investigations to take YEARS to take down motorcycle gangs, and big groups. OK then, we agree that a lot of buyers out there could actually be LE? Ok, next if they set up a vendor that only sold to his (in reality) own people, that would get them the statistics that could enable larger buys. They set up larger buys and larger sells. More statistics, and they aren't letting product onto the streets. You actually have vendors doing the same thing when they are trying to 'up' their stastistics, but they don't want to waste too much money doing that. The government doesn't have those financial 'scruples'.
So if your a vendor, you'll be getting addresses, and depending on how large the purchases are makes you more or less 'eligible' for a raid. Once they get a address and a decent size package (maybe more than a ounce?) They can raid your place, and if you are competent regarding security, ie. Tails, a non persistent OS, or a encrypted disk that hides your activities, that BREAKS the chain. You have plausible deniability. If not, and they 'turn you' (10+ years in federal prison turns most small time people) that is another cog that is now part of the SR.
It's possible, but it would take a lot of money (government has that) and it would take a lot of time (government has that too). If there was enough pressure (through publicity, constant news stories which the government can influence) Senator's (like that creep Schumer in NY).
If, like the above poster noted, that there is another darknet group that deals in large amounts, obviously that would be more enticing than small guys. The Feds aren't going to go after small people, I think most people are pretty safe.
But the weak point (like so many SR posters have noted) is your computer-if you 'did it' on Windows, there is a perfect record of the crime.
Something else that's been mentioned numerous times here-they may not want to give SR the publicity (I think it's called the Streisand effect, when Barbara Streisand started suing a photographer for publishing photos of here beachfront house, all of a sudden everybody was taking pictures)
And if enough time goes by (SR has been operating for about 3 years give or take?) you change society. A real network could do that.
Interesting times! This may be a folk tale, but I thought that the VHS vs. Betamax video 'war' was decided by the mass of people renting VHS tapes, so that kind of introduces the effect of demography (mass of people)
People who say that absolutely the DEA can't let ANY dope on the streets, are in my opinion naive. They did worse with 'Fast and Furious' gun 'sting'. I agree that they would get a lot of bad publicity if they were letting 'keys' out on the street, but they constantly use informants who use drugs-they just don't 'see' those people and use them for information. There's a lot of stuff that the legal system overlooks intentionally and the cops can just lie about the rest.
-
There's also the chance that a high profile, trusted vendor gets busted and cooperates fully with the law to take other people down, handing over his account and GPG keys.
That would be my main worry if I were ordering huge amounts from SR, it's not like we know them personally and they'd get slashed up in the big house for being a grass; dealers here are anonymous.
-
People who say that absolutely the DEA can't let ANY dope on the streets, are in my opinion naive.
Not can't, but aren't likely to. I'm not naive. If anything, I'm informed. My opinion of the feds isn't that high. Every investigation I was ever a party to involving a fed (ATF, mostly) was a monkey fucking a football. But, "Fast and Furious" was an embarrassment. How much more embarrassing this would be is unimaginable.
And, if anyone had already been arrested, and was "cooperating," someone would know. He'd be making attempts to befriend other vendors. He'd be asking about where they live, trying to get personal information, data about what they're selling and how much. And, this is the government, we're talking about - you know, the one that can't keep a secret? Word would get out.
Of course, I'm sure the DEA *wants* us to suspect vendors as being cops, because they want to curtail the activities on the road. Well, I don't buy from just anyone, anymore. I have a trusted list of vendors whom I use pretty much all the time. But, don't call me naive because I think that a DEA plan to pose as a vendor would be a stupid plan. I really hope that's the best they've got.
-
From what I've heard if the feds physically seize the contraband, whatever that might be, they cannot let it go. On the other hand if they know about a big sale happening they can set up surveillance on the peeps involved and try and catch the intended target or just try and keep gaining info and not arrest them at that time, like what happened in fast in the furious. But the feds can't physically send drugs/guns etc. out to customers and not arrest them on the spot.
-
What if a cop vendor is reselling another vendors gear and sending the orders over to the original vendor and keeping copies of the addresses. Technically he's not selling anything and just marketing some other vendors product and snaring up addresses. Dunno.
-
They didn't set up surveillance for the guns. They were supposed to go to the cartels. It was a political thing, not a law enforcement thing. That's why it eventually leaked out, and individual ATF agents helped congress with the (curtailed) investigation. Then obama claimed executive privilege and basically halted the investigation. Before you think I'm a republican, I despise both parties equally well.
Regarding 'embarrassment', I don't know how much more 'embarrassing' having a gun that was supposed to be 'bait' get away (best knowledge is 2000+ guns)and kill another federal cop. 2 guns were directly linked to 'Fast and Furious' and that Custums guy or ICE guy that was killed.
I didn't mean you were naive sleepyeyes2k2, I know you know more about investigations than I do. But I DO know that C.I.'s are allowed (informally) to continue to use and in fact are often GIVEN drugs at a city cop level. It's common knowledge on the street. That's what makes the narc's so dangerous. I also know that there are declared C.I's and 'undeclared' CI's. Cops have to be more careful of the declared ones, cause there is paperwork that links the cops and the C.I's, the other C.I's have 'plausible deniability'. I've been arrested with another junkie (years and years ago) and the cop let the other guy go (kept his dope though) and took me in. I watched it and the cop didn't care what I saw, it's not like anybody would listen to me. And what they tell a judge, compared to what they can and do do on the street, can be pretty huge.
I agree 100% that a goal of LE is to get us to worry about each other and not 'trust' (insomuch that there is trust) anybody on SR. But short of paranoia, it doesn't hurt to think of possibilities for compromise.
-
Another example of a federal 'sting' gone wrong. One of the 'highlights' was that they lost a MP-5 machinegun that was locked in a automobile, with a couple of pistols. One of the pistols was eventually pawned to the pawnshop set up as a 'sting'. They left owing the landlord unpaid rent, broken doors, plumbing damage etc. and when he complained he was threatened with 'harassing' LE if he continued to ask for his rent.
Pretty interesting (and illuminating) article-probably not illustrative of a typical investigation, however it shows that the cops aren't too worried about societal 'norms' and in fact only have to obey the law in a superficial manner.
<snip>
A Journal Sentinel investigation revealed problems in a 10-month ATF sting in Milwaukee - agents' guns, including a machine gun, being stolen; the loss of an ATF ballistic shield; the theft of nearly $40,000 in merchandise from the sting storefront; careless handling of a sensitive operational plan; and the charging of the wrong suspects.
<snip>
Clearnet warning!!!
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/lawmakers-ask-inspector-general-to-investigate-atfs-flawed-milwaukee-sting-jk8q0qj-191463651.html
clearnet warning!!
-
MP-5 machinegun
lol
It's a Sub-Machine gun - SMG
-
IMO I agree that they don't want the small fish, but if they did they would probably do something like this
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=132633.0;topicseen
Offering samples of a drug nearly everyone is going to want as a sample, for stupid amount of btc (0.01btc in this case for a 1g sample of coke) That way gaining a lot of suspects addresses in a short amount of time without having to send out any product because people are biting of their hands to get at it....
I'm sure that this is not the case.....just sayin ;)
-
but the judge aint going to look to kindly on them for selling 100keys of coke just to build up enough cred to lure bulk buyers.
Well, it's not a matter of a judge. LE wouldn't sell real drugs just to build cred. Either way, your point is great.
Maybe, maybe not. Not your local LEO, of course. I would not put it past the DEA at all. Or some other nefarious arm of the federal organized crime racket. Iran-Contra was nothing BUT the federal government buying and selling drugs.
-
Fallkniven-
LOL, you're right-it's a SMG. I was careless and also thought 'machine gun' sounded more dramatic :) Probably wouldn't have gotten a correction if I posted that comment in the Washington Post!
It's the only closed bolt SMG that I know of too (aside from the Reising which was so unpopular in WWII that the Marines dumped all of them into a river) and everybody seems to like it.
Bet that burglar who stole the SMG out of the SUV was happy when he found it!
-
Maybe, maybe not. Not your local LEO, of course. I would not put it past the DEA at all. Or some other nefarious arm of the federal organized crime racket. Iran-Contra was nothing BUT the federal government buying and selling drugs.
Iran-Contra was a long time ago, and it was about gaining hostages and supporting the enemies of our enemies. There is no equivalency between what anyone is suggesting here and Iran-Contra.
And, JM4136, I'm not saying you're wrong, but again I ask: what is the end state? To date, one arrest has been made of a SR vendor - in Australia. He had a lot of drugs, a few phones, and a bunch of cash. Do you think the DEA wants the headlines to read, "DEA arrests 8 for attempts to buy cocaine from the internet"? No! They want: "DEA Arrests Major Silk Road Drug Dealer in Chicago." They want to match or beat Australia. So, yeah, you're right; in theory, the big, bad, DEA could catch people like that; but it's a lame plan, it's reaching at straws, and I promise you, they're working on something bigger. Something directed at vendors, or at the ownership of BTC, maybe. Something that would affect the Road systemically.
-
Fallkniven-
LOL, you're right-it's a SMG. I was careless and also thought 'machine gun' sounded more dramatic :) Probably wouldn't have gotten a correction if I posted that comment in the Washington Post!
It's the only closed bolt SMG that I know of too (aside from the Reising which was so unpopular in WWII that the Marines dumped all of them into a river) and everybody seems to like it.
Bet that burglar who stole the SMG out of the SUV was happy when he found it!
No harm done, it's a common misconception.
I'm glad that you now know the correct terminology and can therefore dispel any others of the same error.
-
To his credit Sleepyeyes, the Aussie guy that was caught was an absolute imbecile, driving around with his vendor name on his vehicle licence plates, bignoting himself and his business to his friends over mobile phones, then giving up his account information as he rolls over to reduce his sentence.
-
The concept of entrapment doesn't exist in australia (as far as I know!)
-
Maybe, maybe not. Not your local LEO, of course. I would not put it past the DEA at all. Or some other nefarious arm of the federal organized crime racket. Iran-Contra was nothing BUT the federal government buying and selling drugs.
Iran-Contra was a long time ago, and it was about gaining hostages and supporting the enemies of our enemies. There is no equivalency between what anyone is suggesting here and Iran-Contra.
And, JM4136, I'm not saying you're wrong, but again I ask: what is the end state? To date, one arrest has been made of a SR vendor - in Australia. He had a lot of drugs, a few phones, and a bunch of cash. Do you think the DEA wants the headlines to read, "DEA arrests 8 for attempts to buy cocaine from the internet"? No! They want: "DEA Arrests Major Silk Road Drug Dealer in Chicago." They want to match or beat Australia. So, yeah, you're right; in theory, the big, bad, DEA could catch people like that; but it's a lame plan, it's reaching at straws, and I promise you, they're working on something bigger. Something directed at vendors, or at the ownership of BTC, maybe. Something that would affect the Road systemically.
Interesting, Any ideas on what sort of thing they are working on?
i suppose if they did something to BTC then SR would be practically un-usable. Well not un-usable but harder anyway. They make less and less BTC every year. I think whoever owns the company that produced them is a smart man, Think about it, as less and less of them get into circulation the price riss and rises, and meanwhile he has millions tucked away somewhere and when they finally peak in price, He's going to sell them all and make millions. The fact that btc are recognized as a currency now is fucked up Lmao. wait a few years and i could bet there'l be headlines about it.
But back to my main question, do you think they are close to completing said plan?
-
If they have any kind of plan, it's almost certainly not revolved around posing as a vendor. What will they gain? The name and address of a few people who like so smoke a little weed or do a little blow on the weekend? Big fuckin deal! They might have (and I'm sure they have) opened vendor accounts just to gain insight and poke around on how the system all works.. but actively vending.. will net them nothing. It would be a waste of time, money, resources, and obviously introducing drugs into circulation is not their job. If anything, they probably have wet dreams of breaking the technology and tracking down the main server.. which as I understand would be impossible unless maybe the NSA was dedicating resources. And the NSA certainly doesn't give a fuck nor is it in their objectives.
That leaves opening buyer accounts (which I think we all agree they do) and buying from vendors. Again, so what. They wouldn't be able to track a vendor. But maybe buy bulk and somehow get close to a vendor.. throw all their resources and bust 1 vendor maybe? Again, would it be worth it? Or option C) social engineer there way into DPR's inner circle.. which.. you guessed.. he is surely not making friends here and probably purposely disguises his typing style and other such red herrings if he's smart (which he definetly fucking is). I personally feel that though they're definetly keeping an eye and casually making purchases here just to go through the motions.. their attitude towards this entire thing is "let sleeping dogs lie". There is no violence, no street crime, no middle school kids buying crack and dying.. so why bother?
-
Maybe, maybe not. Not your local LEO, of course. I would not put it past the DEA at all. Or some other nefarious arm of the federal organized crime racket. Iran-Contra was nothing BUT the federal government buying and selling drugs.
Iran-Contra was a long time ago, and it was about gaining hostages and supporting the enemies of our enemies. There is no equivalency between what anyone is suggesting here and Iran-Contra.
Say what? The hostages were tokens, no one cared about them. It was a power play (as is everything in government) and nothing more/less. And that is EXACTLY the equivalency on here. While it may be far fetched and nothing may ever come of it, to assume they're not on here actively trying to fuck everyone over for cheating them out of their "share" of the money is naive at best IMO.
-
If they have any kind of plan, it's almost certainly not revolved around posing as a vendor. What will they gain? The name and address of a few people who like so smoke a little weed or do a little blow on the weekend? Big fuckin deal!
+1 My sentiments exactly. DEA has a lot more to gain by posing as buyers than as vendors.
Say what? The hostages were tokens, no one cared about them. It was a power play (as is everything in government) and nothing more/less. And that is EXACTLY the equivalency on here.
If there is equivalency, you did nothing to demonstrate it. Selling weapons to rebels of a foreign power unfriendly to the US is by no means similar to selling drugs to anonymous people on an anonymous market in the hope of arresting some of them for simple possession. I don't know what the percentage of people are on the Road who use a burner address, and neither does the DEA. Yet, you think it naive to assume that the DEA isn't posing as vendors. By your logic, no one in America should buy off the Road, out of fear. You may not realize it, but you just argued that every vendor on the Road may actually be the DEA "trying to fuck everyone over." You might think I'm naive, but I might think you're paranoid.
-
Maybe, maybe not. Not your local LEO, of course. I would not put it past the DEA at all. Or some other nefarious arm of the federal organized crime racket. Iran-Contra was nothing BUT the federal government buying and selling drugs.
Iran-Contra was a long time ago, and it was about gaining hostages and supporting the enemies of our enemies. There is no equivalency between what anyone is suggesting here and Iran-Contra.
Yes, but any cursory research into the subject will elucidate confirmed reports of the CIA's complicity in cocaine trafficking, where the funds generated went to purchase weapons to fight "our enemy enemy". Fly into Liberia Costa Rica, it's an old CIA C130 air field which was used by Ollie North to funnel arms to the Contras. Nothing to do with this resource but interesting none the less
-
What about LE disguised as buyers? There are plenty of smooth surfaces within a package from which to pull prints or gather other evidence like DNA. A careless and/or unsuspecting vendor could fall prey to such a scheme. Could this be a plausible strategy for LE? create acct, place order, wait and collect evidence ? Just being paranoid and thinking out loud...
Maybe this should be a separate thread
Sterling
I agree with this but the most worried I become is when a vendor goes missing or even on a vacation. My first thought is damn I hope they did not get busted. Here the LE would have an acct set up with established clients and the orders would just flood in. Seems like easy pickins for the LEO. I believe just the order is intent to commit a felony with some conspiracy charges as well. This worries me even more when you get the order from a vendor that is just a 100 mile radius, or least that's the mail stamp. It all becomes so stressful when you think of all the possibilities there are for LE to ruin your life. I can't help thinking with the rise of coin to this incredible high it has got to be drawing far more attention because they hate for others to profit more than they deem small time. Also, with the increase of value in the coin it appears there has been a HUGE increase in new buyers and sellers. Many are jumping in with out doing their home work. For instance I had a vendor send priority box without enough postage. Getting a notice that you need to come to the PO and [pay the difference to pick up the package. Even if you do not get the package it puts that address on the radar.
But the vendor on vaction scares me the most.. :'( :-X
-
You might think I'm naive, but I might think you're paranoid.
Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness. The point I am making is that your assumption that the government wouldn't break its own laws to screw people is laughable. Iran-Contra is just the 1st example that came to mind. And yes, every vendor could in fact be LEO or compromised in some way. Does that mean I'm not going to order? No, that just means think about the possibilities. Don't think for a second that everything they can record on here isn't recorded. Have you not seen the mammoth data center the NSA is building in Utah to store this kind of stuff? They monitor Facebook, you think they'll just overlook SR? Come on....
-
If a vendor sold to you and it turned out to be the feds that would be entrapment. Surely a vendor how has been vending for a while now with a lot of feedback cannot be LE, there's too much evidence
against the feds. Imagine how that would look in court for LE.
Wrong. If LE is able to demonstrate a person has a "predisposition" to commit a crime, entrapment will not apply. Thus, if they can demonstrate say.... a person was involved in a hidden online drug marketplace... that would probably be enough to demonstrate a "predisposition" to committing a crime.
-
What about LE disguised as buyers? There are plenty of smooth surfaces within a package from which to pull prints or gather other evidence like DNA. A careless and/or unsuspecting vendor could fall prey to such a scheme. Could this be a plausible strategy for LE? create acct, place order, wait and collect evidence ? Just being paranoid and thinking out loud...
Maybe this should be a separate thread
Sterling
Wouldn't really be worth the time/funding to catch a single vendor.. They could spend a fortune, and the vendor might not even be in the system.
-
Maybe, maybe not. Not your local LEO, of course. I would not put it past the DEA at all. Or some other nefarious arm of the federal organized crime racket. Iran-Contra was nothing BUT the federal government buying and selling drugs.
Iran-Contra was a long time ago, and it was about gaining hostages and supporting the enemies of our enemies. There is no equivalency between what anyone is suggesting here and Iran-Contra.
And, JM4136, I'm not saying you're wrong, but again I ask: what is the end state? To date, one arrest has been made of a SR vendor - in Australia. He had a lot of drugs, a few phones, and a bunch of cash. Do you think the DEA wants the headlines to read, "DEA arrests 8 for attempts to buy cocaine from the internet"? No! They want: "DEA Arrests Major Silk Road Drug Dealer in Chicago." They want to match or beat Australia. So, yeah, you're right; in theory, the big, bad, DEA could catch people like that; but it's a lame plan, it's reaching at straws, and I promise you, they're working on something bigger. Something directed at vendors, or at the ownership of BTC, maybe. Something that would affect the Road systemically.
This. This. This. I haven't been in the game long at all, but I've noticed over the past year or so it has become increasingly difficult to keep your btc transactions anon. Attacking btc itself would be much more effective and all encompassing. Multiple birds with one stone kinda thing.
Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness. The point I am making is that your assumption that the government wouldn't break its own laws to screw people is laughable. Iran-Contra is just the 1st example that came to mind. And yes, every vendor could in fact be LEO or compromised in some way. Does that mean I'm not going to order? No, that just means think about the possibilities. Don't think for a second that everything they can record on here isn't recorded. Have you not seen the mammoth data center the NSA is building in Utah to store this kind of stuff? They monitor Facebook, you think they'll just overlook SR? Come on....
Agreed.
Such a great thread. +1 to just about everyone in here...
-
Wow. My karma is plummeting, all because I think the government is planning a much bigger scheme than the tiny one some of you are espousing. Sorry, guys. I was a cop for over a decade, and worked with the feds on several investigations while a detective, but I mean, I'm sure you know more about how they think. It's cool.
Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness. The point I am making is that your assumption that the government wouldn't break its own laws to screw people is laughable.
And, of course, that was never my assumption. My assumption is that while cops (especially feds) are liars, they aren't exactly stupid. And, posing as a vendor to catch small-time buyers (users) is stupid. It'd be like posing as a street corner drug dealer to catch meth heads. Cops don't do that. That's a waste of resources. Yes, those people are breaking the law, but the prosecution output will be minimal. They want the suppliers. From the SR perspective, they want the vendors. They don't want to *be* the vendors.
Paranoia is not awareness; it is hyper-awareness. It is awareness to a level that is dangerous and without use.
This. This. This. I haven't been in the game long at all, but I've noticed over the past year or so it has become increasingly difficult to keep your btc transactions anon.
It's the easiest part, my friend. You can do it yourself, with a little work, or you can pay a service like BitCoin Fog to do it for you. My BTC transactions *might* be traceable from the bank to bitfloor (where I use fake info, and that's IF someone's looking for me at the bank, because they overwrite that footage every 6 weeks or so). Then it can be traced from there to the instawallet I create. But, once I start hiding behind proxies, I can create instawallets anywhere in the world. Or, if you can't hide behind a proxy, send it to BitCoin Fog. 6-72 hours later, your coins will be wherever you want them to be, clean as the driven snow.
-
Ok, I owe you an apology I think because I confused your point. I agree that it's not really worth their time or resources, however, I think it is entirely reasonable that they have in fact set up at least a few vendor accounts, if for nothing more than to examine the system and see how it works. I would have to assume that whatever identifying information they got from that experiment would be saved somewhere. Maybe the feds are the "scammers" that never ship. I wonder if anyone has considered that? That would be like a double bonus on their part, they got (albeit pennies to them) some SR user's money AND info on how it works. Now that I think is reasonable.
I don't think every vendor is a fed, but I do think they know far more than we realize. While you may have interacted with them for years and you may have even been high up, there are untold levels of spying and criminality throughout the government, more and more so as you go up. I do think your experience and insight is very useful and I should appreciate that more. That said I'm thinking you know as well as I do that whatever you may have learned is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to crimes by government against its citizens.
I don't mean to preach paranoia as living in fear constantly; rather just assume that "they" are always watching your every move and that they know everything you're doing. When I approach the problem that way, the solution is simple and obvious: plan around how to deny them the information they need in court to make any charges stick.
I'm gonna go back and upvote you just because. (I didn't downvote, but my comments I'm sure contributed.) Peace!
-
I appreciate your concession and your conciliatory tone, and I happily return it. I don't think you're paranoid to assume that the government is actively seeking information on every single poster in these forums, for example. I don't think it's paranoid to suspect that a vendor *might* be a fed, even. I agree that even my experience on the dark side is insufficient to completely inform my perspective on the DEA's current investigatory stratagems.
I believe that if the DEA has an agent or agents posing as vendors, it is for the purpose of getting close to other vendors, and to SR leadership. It is not, primarily, for the purpose of selling dope. So, I would expect most of his "customers" to be feds, as well. The occasional genuine order would be cancelled or, if domestic, possibly filled. The address would be recorded, and when the op was shut down, that address would be passed down to local LE. That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.
+1 to you, EarlyCuyler, for being a stand-up guy. :)
-
If it isn't paranoid for us to think that LE have purchased vendor accounts, then it also shouldn't be paranoid for us to think that it would also be possible for LE to have more than one account to bump up their feedback (cops leaving fake feedback for cops) in order to gain access to the vendors forum. How much information would they have access to there?
They are trained specialists in undercover operations. Necessary evils and all that (using taxpayer money to buy blackmarket accounts - in order to gather information to ultimately collapse Silk Road/Tor network or to apprehend its creators/larger vendors).
Winning the war are you guys? LOL. I still get my drugs in the mail. Do you?
-
We are without a single doubt winning the war. My concern is I don't know just how far they are willing to go to fight to keep the war alive. Desperate men can do desperate things.
-
As long as we keep funding the war with our tax dollars, I don't see it ending.
-
We may be winning the war long term, but there are going to be many more casualties.
As far as cops selling to people and then busting them, it's a long used tactic. I've heard of them doing it in Florida (newspaper) and I've seen it on 'Cops'. This guy in a pickup was buying crack pulled up to a street corner sitting in his truck. He'd make the deal, and suddenly the cardboard box (marked as a refrigerator or range or something) in the pickup bed would 'explode' and out would pop a couple of cops.
And does anybody remember John DeLorean (made the car in 'Back to the Future') his company was running out of money, the Feds found out he was looking for investment money and had a trafficker (turned FBI informant) get in touch with him. He bullied DeLorean into cooperating with him, and made threats against his daughter. He delayed giving the guy money, told the guy that the IRA (Irish Republican Army) had his money, told his attorney and left him a letter to open if he didn't return. Eventually he was acquitted, but it cost millions, and years of court proceedings. THAT was entrapment, not giving drugs to people who ask to purchase it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeLorean
The 'main' thing that we have going for us is that we are too 'small time' to attract much attention from the Feds (unless they see a point in coercing us for 'bigger fish')
Also they would relish the distrust and paranoia that worrying about going to jail for 40 years engenders.
But just like when you are speeding (in a car, I mean) with a bunch of other cars on the freeway, there's some safety in 'obscurity'-being part of a big crowd.
We ARE changing the system. And I'm encouraged that other places like 'Atlantis' and 'Black Market Reloaded' are also out there. We live and learn, and 'those who don't die, get stronger'.
-
If a vendor sold to you and it turned out to be the feds that would be entrapment. Surely a vendor how has been vending for a while now with a lot of feedback cannot be LE, there's too much evidence
against the feds. Imagine how that would look in court for LE
No, it would not be entrapment. It would be entrapment if said vendor sent you an email out of the blue and said, "Hey, download Tor, get on Silk Road, and here's how you get bitcoins. If you buy a joint from me, I'll give you one for free."
It would absolutely not be entrapment to set up shop in an online market full of drug vendors and post an ad claiming to sell drugs. Do you see the difference? LE has to entice you to do something that you probably wouldn't have done if LE hadn't convinced you to in order to entrap you.
In court, it would look like a successful sting operation.
The Officer is correct. The defense of entrapment [in a criminal trial/proceedings] is where LE induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not previously disposed to commit. This is an especially difficult defense to successfully put up, since it opens up character evidence and requires you to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that you (i) would not have committed the crime but for government inducement and; (ii) that you were not predisposed to committing and; (iii) a reasonable person might have complied with the government's inducement. This varies from state to state, but that's the gist of the defense. A famous case worth looking up with the Delorean car maker who successfully put up the defense. If you review the evidence in that case, the government essentially harassed the poor guy for a very long time, using some of most incredible emotional sensationalism where defendant finally just gave in to get rid of the incessant harassment.
I'd actually take the example provided by the Officer with downloading Tor and buying bitcoins for free drugs as probably not entrapment. And that's before opening up any possible unsavory character evidence. It's almost impossible to win with the entrapment defense unless your a nun. Duress would likely be easier.
-
I'd actually take the example provided by the Officer with downloading Tor and buying bitcoins for free drugs as probably not entrapment.
I agree; when I wrote it, it felt a bit sketchy. More like, the email also included, "and, I'll send you a check for $50 to compensate you for any losses. And you said no, and you continued to get those emails for 6 months, and finally relented." Entrapment is exceptionally hard to prove, and so much real crime happens so often, cops hardly have to resort to entrapment to make arrests; prosecutors don't need them to in order to secure convictions.
-
What about LE disguised as buyers? There are plenty of smooth surfaces within a package from which to pull prints or gather other evidence like DNA. A careless and/or unsuspecting vendor could fall prey to such a scheme. Could this be a plausible strategy for LE? create acct, place order, wait and collect evidence ?
You make a fair point. Were I a vendor, I would wear sterile gloves when handling the product and packing material. Once it's sealed, fingerprints aren't an issue. Do you have any idea how many people have touched that thing? And fingerprints are fucking hard to get, anyway. When people think about that stuff, they thing about shows like CSI and NCIS. It ain't that, boys and girls. Not in real life. In every lab in the country, murders come first, and every lab in the country is backed up beyond belief. I once worked a B&E case where I actually did get good prints off a TV set the guy tried to carry out, but decided otherwise. It was the suspect's prints, which was good, because he was convicted for it 6 years before the evidence lab report came back. If we hadn't caught him earlier, the lab report would have been useless, because the statute of limitations would have run out.
But, the DEA is federal, and can probably fast-track whatever they prioritize. So, your speculation has merit. Vendors should be careful. When you handle that (insert product packing material here), take precautions.
Fingerprints inside the package = BUSTED! However, the Officer is correct in saying that they really don't do this CSI stuff unless it's an inherently dangerous felony, at least not as a matter of practice. Even if their policies are contrary, they really don't want to hire the duster to lift prints on a package of a few xannie bars. I've worked on some drug cases where the cops didn't even test drugs to see if they were, in fact, drugs lol! There is a policy of a certain police station where they do not dust for prints for any burglary that isn't residential or armed or coupled with robbery. It's not cheap to investigate crime. I'm sure any cop can tell you that they usually like to rely on a confession.
The DEA wants us, though. Bad. Real bad. So take precautions and remember that they are more than happy to make an example out of even the least of us in order to wage war against the one corporation that has overshadowed every LE effort currently available..the one and only Silk Road.
-
+1 to our resident Attorney. :)
-
LE themselves cannot pose as vendors and complete drug deal transactions that's against the law.But what they can do, if they ever caught up to someone, force a big vendor to work for them...
A sudden hacker group comes to mind who played everyone....
-
I will throw in here just a personal opinion.
All great thinking. Every post and it's all very plausible to get to a big payday for the powers that be. That's really the root. If your can think it know that it's already been thunk. All angels are covers and if u think any less then u are playing with your supposed freedom.
They will stop at nothing to get what they want get what they need and take from that thing... Power. Power and money or money is power. This while forum is searchable via google u bet your assthey are watching every post. I guess the key is not to get to brazen not to get too rich cause once that happens people start to take notice and if they notice u well. U can be a target.
So thank of the craziest thought and day nooooo... Then on the back end protect yourself for just that event.
And know if u can't do the time don't do the crime. I now sappy but tru.
-
LE themselves cannot pose as vendors and complete drug deal transactions that's against the law.But what they can do, if they ever caught up to someone, force a big vendor to work for them...
A sudden hacker group comes to mind who played everyone....
While it's much more likely for them to bust and turn someone, that's not their only method of setting up sales. Just be sure to blow the blow and not snort it. Haha to anyone that gets that joke holla!
-
There was one person I was going to be ordering from but I decided not to.
It was all very suspicious and weird and I decided not to send my address because I honestly thought he/she was LE.
It kinda looked like LE got access to the account and was shipping out samples of coke to get address's. I could just have been paranoid but there were multiple things pointing that way.
-
There was one person I was going to be ordering from but I decided not to.
It was all very suspicious and weird and I decided not to send my address because I honestly thought he/she was LE.
It kinda looked like LE got access to the account and was shipping out samples of coke to get address's. I could just have been paranoid but there were multiple things pointing that way.
I'm not sure if you're comfortable sharing, but I'd like to know what was suspicious about the transaction. Shipping out free samples is a SR tradition. And I highly doubt LE would reject your bitcoins. Asset forfeiture is one way LE gets their supplementary funding in the war on drugs.
-
There was one person I was going to be ordering from but I decided not to.
It was all very suspicious and weird and I decided not to send my address because I honestly thought he/she was LE.
It kinda looked like LE got access to the account and was shipping out samples of coke to get address's. I could just have been paranoid but there were multiple things pointing that way.
I'm not sure if you're comfortable sharing, but I'd like to know what was suspicious about the transaction. Shipping out free samples is a SR tradition. And I highly doubt LE would reject your bitcoins. Asset forfeiture is one way LE gets their supplementary funding in the war on drugs.
I honestly cannot remember now. I did notice the user is now in stealth mode which is strange.
For now I'll just leave it as simple paranoia but at the time it was very suspicious.
Edit: I remembered a reason for suspicion, he doesn't use PGP, only privnote. His stats were a bit weird too but he's in stealth mode so I can't see them.
-
They most certainly are!! They will work as long as they can without us knowing what they are doing. In nature lions after a herd don't try hide there basic kill tactics but that is what they would be doing meaning they probably pose as vendors to take out dealers but they would have to have a way - a deal to make - to make sure that no one says how they got busted.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-02/01/silk-road-crackdown
-
What give me the 'willys' is a certain vendor who sells synthesis 'recipes'. I mean, if he was LE, they wouldn't even be breaking the law, people would be getting info in the mail on how to synthesis certain products, those addresses would be very interesting to LE. He even 'helps' with links to precursors. Also the guy comes off as a 'rough, tough guy' who thinks you're an idiot to doubt him. Very fishy IMHO.
Shit, Strike did everything he could to educate people at the 'Hive', and plowed his money into it and wasn't IMO 'money hungry'. This guy is the anti-Strike.
I guess that I could 'take back' some of the above if the info is downloaded (via Tor and a truly anonymous procedure) instead of snail mail, but if this info is sent via US mail........
-
What give me the 'willys' is a certain vendor who sells synthesis 'recipes'. I mean, if he was LE, they wouldn't even be breaking the law, people would be getting info in the mail on how to synthesis certain products, those addresses would be very interesting to LE. He even 'helps' with links to precursors. Also the guy comes off as a 'rough, tough guy' who thinks you're an idiot to doubt him. Very fishy IMHO.
Shit, Strike did everything he could to educate people at the 'Hive', and plowed his money into it and wasn't IMO 'money hungry'. This guy is the anti-Strike.
I guess that I could 'take back' some of the above if the info is downloaded (via Tor and a truly anonymous procedure) instead of snail mail, but if this info is sent via US mail........
I'd be curious to learn if for what purpose he requires you to have a hard copy..? Like you said, just download it.